Here's How the New Weight Loss Drugs Could Change Everything

26:35Because, you know, like a good example from another trend, artificial intelligence would be like applied opto-electronics, right? Which is like, like it was destroyed. And then, you know, with 800G and the data center demand for optical, you know, it's a, we're so back, right? Weight Watchers. It's so over. It wears so back. It was so over. I hadn't heard of Metafest, but I'm reading their descriptions. Yeah, they talk about competition. And among the things that they make are pretzels, puffs, cereal crunch, drinks, hearty choices, oatmeal, pancakes, pudding. So I'm basically, I don't know, maybe the products are delicious.

27:12But I'm imagining the type of things that people who are sort of like really trying to lose weight are like, oh i'm gonna eat these puffs and shakes because they're a little bit healthier than the alternative i mean you don't need to that's the thing you don't need to work like like you know i was talking about my channel checks earlier and i have an endocrinologist you know like um eli lily was one of my biggest positions from you know 2022 2021 even and it kind of got surpassed during the ai stuff but i built up uh basically you know like i would go to like an end of whenever you have a position that's super big you know you're on top of it right you and you can expense a trip to an endocrinologist conference.

27:48And you go there and like, I'm speaking to these people and they're like, I have a patient who was eating 5 ,000 calories a day, which is like a full-time job, right? Like, like 5 ,000, once you get to like 5 ,000, 6 ,000 calories, that's like, I mean, that, that is like eight full meals a day. Right. And he's like, I am, he's having issues because I have to recommend protein supplementation because he can't get above 500 calories a day. So if you look at a company like Metafest, that's basically, you know, selling this food that's a little bit healthier for you and, you know, maybe taste the same so that, you know, you don't have to, you're kind of getting better macronutrients or something.

28:25I mean, there might be an opportunity there for the protein shakes. But overall, like you don't really need to worry about if you're taking this drug, you don't really need to worry about, oh, you know, let me buy food that's like more that's less calorically dense because like it doesn't matter. You're not going to eat it anyway. and this is kind of interesting because when you're looking at when you're like monitoring social media you know like uh always monitoring like you know google trends wikipedia trends and for a little bit i think this was like the middle of last year you know monitoring google trends and this google trend comes up called ozempic face oh yeah this is when people get really gaunt from weight loss literally like i had and i'm like my fingers on the cell button i'm like if it affects your face, like I'm out, you know, and it turns out like people were like, oh, God, like Ozempic causes you to have like, you know, like a gaunt face or something.

29:14And it's like, not really what's causing you to look gone is the fact that you're losing a ton of weight very quickly. Right. And you have another one where like people are like worried about hair loss. And, you know, that is it's a condition called collagen effluvium, right, which is basically the same thing. When you lose too much weight, you know, your body is kind of like burning nutrients for energy, you're at a caloric deficit and you lose care. It's totally reversible. And with like Ozempic face, it's like you can't see wrinkles on like an inflated balloon, right? Like that's just how it works.

29:45And it's kind of amazing to me because you have this kind of impetus where people are like, oh, like this is that this is the like we gotcha. You know, I knew there was going to be a catch. And it's like people are so unaccustomed to the idea of there being a weight loss drug that works, that they are confusing the side effects of the drug with the side effects of the effects of the drug, which is, you know, success being successful weight loss. Just for what it's worth. I'm sorry. I keep going back to this. I'm reading the Metafest transcript from earlier in the week. And one of the one of the questions is Herbalife doesn't say anything.

30:19I'm paraphrasing. One of the questions from the analysts is Herbalife didn't say anything about GLP one drugs affecting their business. What about you? And they're like, well, we're not going to comment on Herbalife, but yes, we're feeling it. So yeah, it actually, it came up. They also cited higher customer acquisition costs. Again, they say pressured by less prospects being identified by coaches impacted by competition from GLP-1 drugs, inflationary pressure. So it's coming up. Wait, so can I ask a basic question here? Wait, wait, just before we go further, can I ask a basic question, which is like, how many people are on these drugs right now?

30:53I mean, so I would rather not comment right. I think that i would never be talking about something like this if i didn't think that it was early right and the so like you can look at penetration like type 2 diabetes right you know talking about like penetration of a drug that's been approved for an indication for a year you know it's like like you're not really going to get an accurate picture you know and manjaro and also a drug where like there's only been one approved for you know and then you get also the fact that like there are talking about, you know, mentions on earnings, there are significant supply chain issues with these drugs, you know, like like Novo is having trouble sourcing the drugs coming in auto injector, right, which is basically if you think of an EpiPen, you know, you take it once a week and, you know, it's like a button that you push.

31:38But you look at like like talking still about like the earnings mentions. If you look at Stevanotto or Gerashimer or even Becton Dickinson, the problem is that they can't produce enough of it, which should tell you something about demand, right? Like, like, even I knew this would turn into a supply chain episode eventually. Please don't try to get me to talk about the slide. I will seem very silly. But the thing is just even Lily, right? Obviously, they have to temper their optimism, but they're having to ramp up production at all, you know, five global facilities just because of the fact that like They're like overwhelmed.

32:17They could not even have anticipated this level of demand. Right. During Lilly's earnings call, Chris Chibitani, an analyst, was asking a question that was basically like, Novo and Lilly, you've been confronted by this demand that was like beyond what you could have possibly planned for. And with Lilly, you know, Manjaro isn't even approved for weight loss yet. And so essentially, it would be kind of premature to say, you know, what the penetration of these drugs is right now. But what I will say is that, and I have a chart that I can send you, maybe you can put it up on the site, that essentially the obesity rate in the U.S.

32:58in 1974 was 12%, right? And now it's 42%. And for the past five decades, there have not been two sequential years in which the obesity rate has ticked down. It hasn't happened for 50 years. So, you know, when you look at that, first off, I think it's not just reasonable, but rational to think that you can't have a society that has both advanced medication and then half of its populace affected by a disease and not think that eventually those two things resolve each other. Right. And if you look at the 68-week trial data on Manjaro and you adjust for the average compliance and which patients dropped out prematurely, and then you adjust for the fact that after you drop out of the trial about half of the weight loss, you still maintain about half of the weight that you lost, but about half of it goes away.

33:52and you so you adjust for all those things if munjaro a 68 week trial data has a 30 penetration rate in the obese population right the obesity rate in the united states would be lower than it was in 1997 and you know like that could happen over the course of two or three years and so for a line that has gone up into the right to go down you know that significantly

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36:01Brokered services for U.S.-listed registered securities, options, and bonds and a self-directed account are offered by Public Investing, Inc., Member FINRA and SIPC. Crypto trading provided by XeroHash. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures. So I'm not surprised that, you know, mentions of GLP-1s are popping up on various conference calls. You know, some in obvious ways, like the company that maybe makes the devices for its use, or the companies that have some other weight loss solution that may be feeling pressure. But like, for example, today, again, August 9th, we got earnings from Wendy's.

36:38No mention of GLP-1 there yet. I looked last month, we got earnings from Pepsi. And, you know, if I were to think about like, OK, in theory, in some future world where these drugs are very cheap and widespread and who would theoretically be losers from from drugs that reduce one's appetite for fast food, for salty foods, for high carb foods. whatever it is, in your mind, is it obvious that A, some of these big consumer oriented companies are going to be losers? And B, if it is, when would you expect to see what pick out, predict a quarter when maybe this would come up on a Wendy's earnings call?

37:18Well, so let's, you know, first off. Or if the premise of the question is totally off the mark, that's fine, too. No, no, no. I mean, it's a I don't know. We're talking about second order effects. This seems a little first order, Joe. OK, you're right. You're right. No, but no, no. I mean, it's a great point. Right. And I think that, I mean, you know, Wendy's sells so much food. Like it's it's it's me too. I don't want to malign Wendy's. But the thing is, I think that if you wanted to be able to predict this, what you would have to do is you probably have to use all data or, you know, credit card data.

37:55and you would have to look at the company and maybe eat a lot of fast food for a month to figure out. But like which of these companies are making, you're going to be my new analyst. No, which of these companies are willing to or are basically making up for low margins with high volumes, right? Because the because it's not like these drugs are going to automatically make you, you know, the Jack LaLanne, right? Like you're not going to you're not just going to be like the health, all your habits are healthy now. Like if you're eating fast food every day, you will probably continue to eat fast food every day.

38:28You will just eat a lot less of it, like a lot less of it. And let's say Chipotle, for example, probably not going to be that negatively affected, you know, like like people, you know, they'll probably have the same order and they'll just finish, you know, a couple of bites of it or something. I don't necessarily want to speak to this, but just thinking of like Arby's, for example, I think is owned by a private companies so i can you know talk about without issue but like the prototypical let's just speak theoretically there's you know all you can eat buffet or something they might do really well because people eat less but at the same time they might be patronized less because you know nobody wants all you can eat you're not getting a good deal anymore so if you have a company and you look at the data and basically the way that they make money is by selling a ton of food that they get very cheaply and make up for, you know, kind of lower margins by selling a ton of it, that company probably isn't going to do too great.

39:21But, you know, it wasn't just Metafest, for example, you know, going beyond the idea of like food being impacted. Like right now, Lilly has a trial for Munjaro. Basically, what these companies are doing is they are on this kind of blitz scale for like the data, right? Because like most of these things you can kind of rationally expect, like, for example, with the WGOVI headline, WGOVI reduces heart attack risk by 20%. I mean, kind of like, duh, you know, like, oh, like, you know, if you go from being obese to not obese, you're going to have a lower chance of heart attack, right? But what they have to do is, you know, have these, you know, rigorous trials that actually prove it.

39:59Like, so for example, Lily is going right now for obesity-induced sleep apnea or knee osteoarthritis. And so like a company like ResMed, Right. ResMed was talking about it for, you know, like a while on the earnings call. And the response was essentially, you know, I'm trying to remember exactly what they said. Oh, right. CPAP machine. The costs over a lifetime for a CPAP machine are like about$15 ,000. And then they did their own math, which was like, well, these GLP-1 drugs cost$1 ,000 a month. And if you multiply, if you have a 40 year old patient and you multiply that by 40 years, well, really a GOP one drugs, you know, it's going to cost you$480 ,000.

40:41So obviously, you know, we're coming in at 14, 15 ,000. We're obviously the option. We're not going to be really affected by this. And, you know, to take that into consideration, you say, why would people be taking this for 40 years? Right. Why would if someone, you know, 70 percent of sleep apnea is caused by obesity. if you have someone that's taking it and they take it for, let's say, 16 months and they go from being obese to having a normal body weight. And then in all likelihood, at least for like 70 % of them, the obstructive sleep apnea goes away. I mean, you have to adjust kind of the total addressable market for a company like ResMed or for the CPAP industry in general.

41:22It is going to shrink, right? It's kind of, and even, you know, and then when people say that, you know, this is a fad or, you know, this won't work again. You look at like, like, when was the last fad weight loss drug that had intuitive surgical talking about on the earnings call, right? Like intuitive surgical, they're not ready to speak to it, but they mentioned it on the earnings call. And then you have another company that I think this was my favorite one, right? And it wasn't even because of anything the company did or said, it was just because I'm reading the prepared remarks. And And the exact text was basically, you know, so the company is called Teleflex.

41:58And essentially, it's a company that makes devices for sleeve gastrectomy, like the bariatric surgery, weight loss surgery. You get the sleeve. And the thing is, you know, a sleeve gastrectomy, I think the average weight loss over 72 weeks is like 26 or 27 percent. And with Munjaro, it's a little bit closer to, depending on the dose, between like 17 and 19%. But Lilly's new drug, the triple agonist, retitrutide, is showing like 24, 25%, right? So in the prepared remarks, they're basically saying, we did see an effect from GLP-1s on the demand for bariatric surgery, which affected the demand for our device, the Titan stapler.

42:46so if i ask you tracy if you want to lose weight would you rather take a stomach or get or get titan stapled yeah like who like like you you want to go with the titan stapler i don't think so why didn't they call it like soft staple or gentle staple titan is just a terrible name for any surgical procedure okay wait so one of the reasons talking about this is fun is because it is kind of a giant thought experiment of what a world of fewer obese people would actually mean. How far can you take it, James? Like, what's your most interesting sort of second order trade idea based on a widely available weight loss drug?

43:31Well, I think that, you know, if I'm going to stretch this as, you know, as far as it can go, the first thing is stretching it as far as it can go gets pretty stretched because Because, I mean, the direct medical costs this year from obesity are going to be$370 billion. The indirect costs are going to be over a trillion. McKinsey, in 2012, when the obesity rate was like, I want to say 7 % or 8 % lower, they estimated that obesity results in an annual global economic impact that is equivalent to 2.8 % of the global GDP. So you think about productivity, sick days, workers' comp, injuries. I mean, life insurance, health insurance, workers' comp insurance, something like that.

44:13When you have a literal disease state that is affecting 42 percent of your population, it's kind of hard not to stretch this far, you know, like if that gets fixed. But in terms of the one that I would share on a podcast to be entertaining, I would say like Match Group or Bumble as a long. If you look into like just general sociological. Everyone feels better about themselves. And so they go out in a product in the dating marketplace. And, you know, what's interesting about this, you know, match group, I already think that the fundamentals look good here. But, you know, if we're going to like stretch it super far, you look at like match groups last earnings and like payers were flat or decreased a little bit for Tinder, but they increased significantly for hinge.

44:57And if you look at like there are like, you know, social sciences studies about like the effects of obesity on like your how happy you are and how satisfied you are with your dating life and stuff. And I think I don't want to butcher the results or something, but it was basically across genders, right? Like if you are a female or male, the effect of losing 10 or 20 pounds on your average, you know, satisfaction with your dating life and with just generally how happy you are, it's a lot more significant in females. So, you know, maybe if you want to like be super early and stretch it super far, maybe the reason that like hinge is getting more popular than tinder maybe it's because it's easier to lose weight i don't i would not say that in like an authoritative way but you know you'll just say it on the bloomberg yeah no yeah that's the only thing i'm gonna get quoted on right like like all the quotes are gonna be like no this is this is a crazy guy thinks that like match group is gonna moon because of but you know no i guess i just say i get i get how the internet works though i know you do i know you do uh it's funny i keep reading through conference calls after you mentioned them.

46:04I'm looking at the ResMed one. Did you look at the Titan stapler? No, but they're talking about, they're like, well, they're like, because clearly this is a source of anxiety for them. So they're like, oh, well, like uptake and like endurance is not really that good. And then a very funny thing they say, because Biden had that mark on his face, is our biggest side effect is President Biden had a little mark on his face and he was asked about it. And it was from his CPAP. Look, I think it's a good long road to play out here. I think it's frankly, good marketing. So President Biden, because he had to put a device on his face for his sleep problems, the company is setting.

46:36I mean, I saw I saw a photo of Justin Trudeau at IMAX. Yeah. So maybe I should get long IMAX. You know, it seems like a big deal. Like just zooming out. It seems like a big deal, even if we like set aside what it's going to do to Pepsi or what it's going to do to like Frito-Lay or that's the same company, you know what it's going to do to all these consumer companies. You know, health insurance, you mentioned that like obesity plus obesity related diseases are huge. And so if they were to go down and you see, maybe you see some of that in a sort of weak stock price of ResMed anxiety about this, what does it mean just like for like health insurers and also just like healthcare utilization in general?

47:17Like, you know, generally we think of like healthcare as like a line that only goes up that if you're a healthcare professional, you're like going to do probably likely very well, guaranteed demand. What is the effect on just sort of like the broader healthcare, institutional healthcare industry? Since you already got document search loaded up, why don't you check out Insperity? The ticker is NSP. This is a fun game. I like just hearing different names and then I look them up during the answer. Yeah, keep going. Welcome to my life during earnings season. Document search is my favorite feature.

47:51But You know, if you look at Insperity, you can kind of see, I don't want to misquote anyone, so I'll just pull it up very quickly. Oh, look at the share price. Wait, this is, the company offers recruiting, employment screening, retirement, business insurance. Yeah, what is this company? It's down about 16 % year to date. That's what matters. I can't figure out what they do and what their connection is here, so we're going to find out. Provides human resources and business optimization services. No, no, no. Yeah, but I don't, okay, so what's the deal? So here's the deal. Right. They also offer, you know, employee benefit administration.

48:24Yes. Which, you know, like health. And so if you want to boil it down to two things, like insperity got hit on the fact that like people want these drugs because they don't want to be fat and the drugs make them not fat. And insperity apparently thinks that, you know, that is a fad. They were saying something that was like, oh, you know, the effects are going to wane because of the side effects. And when you think about it, like these drugs were originally developed for type two diabetes. And it's like, oh, you know, there's never been a drug before that was developed for one thing and then ended up being really good for the other, you know, just like Tracy said with Viagra.

48:55And basically, they said, you know, large claim activity accounted for approximately 75 percent of the higher costs with claims over seven hundred fifty thousand dollars. And the remaining 25 percent is related to higher than expected pharmacy costs. As for higher pharmacy costs, we experienced an increase in utilization of the specialty drugs, including a significant step up in the use of diabetes and weight loss drugs. And then they talk about behavioral health drugs, behavioral health drugs, too, which is probably, you know, I mean, I don't know, that's a whole different conversation with COVID and behavioral health drugs and, you know, like how people have emotionally reacted to the last three years.

49:32But when you look at it for insperity, it's probably bad right now because, you know, as long as these companies have a duopoly on these drugs, the costs will probably be high. But that can only last for so long. Eventually, there will be competition. Eventually, the cost will go down. Eventually, it'll be like Viagra, where it goes from$88 a pill to whatever,$2 a pill. Maybe it was a bad quarter for insperity. Maybe that continues for a little bit while they're still expensive. And then eventually, it'll get better. But when you think of it from, let's say, Cigna or UnitedHealthcare, Cigna on their earnings call, they said, you know, GLP ones are definitely top of mind for many of our clients.

50:09There's been a meaningful uptick in utilization. and essentially what they said was you know there's a continued interest in behavioral solutions you know these insurance companies they will like pay for you to get a gym membership or they'll pay for you to get a meal plan or something and the success rates of those things are dismal like absolutely awful right and you know it doesn't work and insurance companies are stakeholders in global health right and they're really good at anticipating how much it's going to cost and making sure, you know, that they make more money than what's what it's going to cost.

50:45But as an epidemic, this is still like a relatively new thing. The obesity rate has never been 42 percent before. And so what do we how can we really accurately model what that's going to look like in 50 years? I mean, you know, maybe if it continues the way that it's going on abated, I think that ultimately, you know, health insurance that it's going to be a significant hit. So what you're seeing is these drugs, drug companies essentially going on these data campaigns, which is, you know, we're going to show you not just that it results in weight loss. We're going to do a study and a clinical trial on every single one of the beneficial effects of losing weight.

51:22Right. We're going to say, oh, obstructive sleep apnea, hyperlipidemia, hypertension, heart disease, type two diabetes, knee replacements, all of this stuff. And then eventually it is for Cigna or for UnitedHealthcare. it is going to be, they're going to do what insurance companies do. They're going to negotiate. They're going to push down the price. There's going to be pushback. There's going to be what gets covered and what doesn't, especially after Monjaro gets approved for obesity. But at the end of the day, the thing is they are basically going to have to do a cost-benefit analysis. And there is no way in my mind, I think really, even if they were paying 150 % of what Lily's charging, didn't negotiate at all over the course of the next 20 or 30 years, they would probably make money like they would probably be a better situation than it would be without it.

52:15You know, not to get too like insanely off the rails. But again, it's a podcast. So this whole thing is a thought experiment. So let's do it. Let's entertain some people. Right. Why shouldn't the government pay for this? Well, you mentioned that the Inflation Reduction Act is going to reduce the cost. This should be Biden's re-election. He's like, hey, I signed the bill that's going to make that. Ozempic for all. Ozempic for all, yeah. Seriously, this is a good idea. Let's look at this, right? We just had the biggest public health experiment ever. We had COVID, right? Does anyone know off the top of their head how many people COVID?

52:50That's not a fact that I have handy.

52:54Right. And how many people, what was the all-cause mortality of like COVID in like annually during like the peak of the epidemic. I don't know. It was probably high. But what I'll tell you is it probably was similar to how many people are going to die of obesity this year. You know, I don't want to like like speak without facts in front of me. But I would say, you know, if if someone wants to go look that up and, you know, whether it's how many people die of obesity this year or how many in five years, I would say that they are probably comparable public health crises. And also in terms of the impact on the economy, obviously nothing can rival shutting down the entire economy and, you know, having a lockdown.

53:37But if you look at it from an acute versus chronic perspective, you know, if obesity is going to cost us a trillion dollars this year in indirect costs and we're running at a trillion dollars a year, I mean, over the next 10 years, like what it just seems like something where it let's say that, you know, Lilly and Novo and all the other companies that eventually joined the fray, that they're effective in proving that the side effects are moderate and that the overall benefit is sustained and it's good. Why would the government not cover it? Right. Like if they're if they'll cover COVID vaccines, then they should probably cover this, too, especially if it has a 20 percent reduction in like heart attacks.

54:15I mean, well, I would never overestimate America's ability to make bad decisions when it comes to public health care. But that's a good point. But James, that was a really fun conversation. Absolutely a blast to have you on and go through the transcripts sort of in real time while we're talking to you. That was great. Absolutely. And, you know, if you want to learn more, you know, I've been writing about this since June on Citrini Research dot com. I go pretty deep into these. I did one on A &M. No, it's a great read. Yeah. Oh, you read it? Come on. We do a little. Believe it or not, there is some.

54:52I read it on the subway this morning while coming in. I do real prep for this job. I sent it to you like 12 hours beforehand, and I know it's like, you know, 20 pages long. So I would have forgave you. All right. Well, James, thanks so much for coming on Outlots. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me, guys. Thanks, James. That was a pleasure.

55:23All right. Well, Joe, I, for one, look forward to the svelte future of publicly funded weight loss drugs. I mean, I totally like why not? If all the things seem to be true about this, what many people seem to believe. And, you know, it's like James is like totally right. Like you see a lot of people like poking. They're like, there must be some catch here. Right. There must be. It's going to melt your insides or it's going to do something. Maybe one day. You never know. But right now, anything I read about the side effects never seem like that compelling or anything. I just point out the class of drugs for a while.

55:55It kind of feels like potentially like a legit miracle drug, right? Like it's kind of wild. Well, I think he makes an excellent point about the tradeoffs, right? And at some point, it might be cheaper for an insurance company to just provide this drug rather than treat someone for diabetes or heart problems or sleep apnea or whatever else for the rest of their lives. The other thing I was thinking throughout all of that, you know, I initially came into the conversation thinking like, oh, well, if everyone's consuming less, maybe that's deflationary. But now I'm going back to that price over volume theme.

56:27And James brought it up as well, which is, well, if you're Wendy's and people just aren't buying as many cheeseburgers, then maybe you just raise your prices to offset it. Could be. I am. I mean, there's all kinds of like other things that we could get into. And so another thing, and I saw someone on Twitter say this, they're like, well, the snack companies put even more salt and other addicting type of like ingredients to counter this. To offset it, yeah. So that the people who aren't taking the drugs buy even more in the future. Like they're not going to give up without a fight if there's some drug that causes people, you know, like everyone's going to like try to like find some way.

57:04We didn't talk about gyms really, but I wonder like one way of thinking is maybe it's bad for gyms. But on the other hand, like if you want to show off, that's exactly right. If you feel more confident than maybe like, you know what, I'm ready to I don't mind being seen at the gym. All kinds of interesting questions. Like I like the idea of like, you know, match or hinge is a buy or is like a winner here. So that was a very fun thought experiment. And it was fun in the context that he knew so many details. So it's like also kind of real. Not just. Yeah. And I'm going to spend, I think, the next like two hours or so just going through some of the earnings transcripts and seeing what people are saying about this.

57:37Because I hadn't realized that people were already actually talking about it. Well, so I think the reason I didn't realize it is because I was searching. It was Zempik. It's just like the thing. You just search GLP. But they're all searching. You just search GLP and then tons come up. And so it's really interesting. I mean, it's a huge focus on a lot of these calls just from looking it up. All right. Well, fun conversation. Shall we leave it there? Let's leave it there. OK. This has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway.

58:06And I'm Jill Weisenthal. You can follow me on Twitter at The Stalwart. You can follow James Van Galen on Twitter at Citrini7. Also check out his research. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at CarmenArmin and Dash O 'Bennett at DashBot. And all of the Bloomberg podcasts can be found under the handle at Podcasts. And for more OddLots content, go to Bloomberg.com slash OddLots, where we have a transcript, blog, and a newsletter. And we don't have a pharmaceutical channel on there. Maybe we've got to add a medicine and health one, but check out the Discord. One of my favorite places to hang out on the internet.

58:42Other OddLots listeners are there talking 24-7, discord.gg. And if you enjoy OddLots, if you like listening to these types of conversations, imagining a world without obesity, then do leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening.

59:32Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year, he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for$15 a month. Now, you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

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