How a Professional Sports Bettor Really Makes Money

22:57And the real thing is that, you know, you're just you have to disguise your bets in a way that they don't they don't see or they don't realize that what you're doing. And so one of the one of the common ways that sportsbooks identify and profile their customers is based on the first few bets that you place. So one thing that a lot of people do that's really quite silly, in my opinion, is, you know, you go into a book and you bet a bunch of stuff that's pretty obviously a really smart bet. You know, if you open up an account and you're betting the maximum amount on, you know, Bulgarian table tennis and you keep winning.

23:28And then, you know, I have friends who come to me and they're like, Isaac, you know, why did I get kicked out of this book? And I look at their bet history and they're betting on the most obscure stuff at like random times for very large amounts. And it's like, yeah, you know, these companies aren't dumb. So the main way is, you know, when you open up an account, you place a bunch of bets which look kind of normal. You bet on some NBA. Maybe these bets won't have a positive expected return. Bet for the home team. Exactly. Exactly. You know, you're in New York. You want to bet on the Yankees. You place a bunch of bets, which in the short run, they might lose a little bit of money.

23:58But in the long run, they'll make you money because they're kind of putting the sportsbook off your scent. this reminds me so i finally opened a spotify account the other day i didn't have it for a long time because i was in abu dhabi and you weren't allowed to have spotify over there and so i just waited a long time and i felt so much pressure choosing that first song because i was like this is going to be my identity dictated by the algo forever what did i pick oh i did um beyonce texas hold 'em okay solid yeah we'll see we'll see how that goes my impression is that the American market, because in many ways it's a lot more liberalized, at least compared to Europe and the UK, that it's kind of seen as like this holy grail moneymaker for a lot of international operators.

24:40And you touched on some of the offshore operators just then. But I think we have big European gambling companies that are coming in as well. Do you notice a big difference between the US platforms versus the European ones? It's a great question. So this in general, the European bookmaking model has been adopted in the U.S. You know, FanDuel, the largest sports book, is owned by Flutter, which is which is based in the U.K. You know, William Hill partners with Caesars, also a U.K.-based company. And in general, the European model is viewed as much less friendly towards winning players. And what that means is it's much more aggressive in terms of how quickly you limit people in terms of, you know, even if there is, let's say, a 75 percent chance that this person might be a winner.

25:21the European bookmaking model is we don't want their action at all. And it's in general, you know, the way it used to work is if you were a professional better or a smart better, sometimes sportsbooks would accept your action because then they could shade their lines. You know, they say, okay, this guy's winning and he's betting on this team. So maybe we can move the line over. In general, these companies today, part of that is the European bookmaking model. Part of that is just, you know, there's more information now. They don't need information with the individual better. They don't care as much.

25:46And so they're more willing to just kick you out or limit you to one or two dollars. I want to go back to this constraint on bet sizing because this seems to be a way that sports betting is fundamentally different than, say, trading options. Whereas, you know, if you're trading options and you're really good at it, suddenly, like, you know, your broker is not going to say, oh, you can only trade a thousand dollars or options. And in fact, I think generally speaking with financial markets, the better you are, probably the more liberal line of credit you're going to get and the more leverage you can get and so forth.

26:23This seems really unfair. It seems like, OK, here's this platform that anyone can use, but they're pretty good at identifying who's good at it and they're pretty good at identifying who's bad at it. It seems unfair to me. You know, I mean, I completely agree. I don't spend too much time thinking about it because I don't think it's going to change. And the reality is that these are private companies. They can do what they want. I think actually the more predatory thing is not that they limit winners, but that they actually expand those limits if you're a big loser. Say more about that. Sure. And so, you know, when you open up an account, let's say the limit is, you know,$1 ,000 on a bet.

26:56If you place a few bets and they think that you're really smart, it might go down to, you know,$10. But if you keep losing a lot of money and you keep losing and redepositing, maybe you get into their VIP program, those limits often can increase to$5,$10. And I've seen accounts where the person is able to bet 50 times what a standard person is able to bet. And obviously, the only reason that's the case is because the companies know that these people are losers. And so from a professional standpoint, the holy grail is what we call flipping a whale, which is basically what you take someone who historically has lost a lot of money and is in good with the casino.

27:29They can bet however much they want. And you say, OK, we're going to work together now and you're going to place these bets for me. And because they've already been profiled as someone who's not a good better, the sportsbook is more likely to take their action for larger amounts. And so that's sort of the real holy grail of professional sports betting. And that's, you know, people like Phil Mickelson, Ashton Kutcher famously work with professional betting groups because they were high profile figures who identified or who were identified as, you know, whales. And then they were flipped. Do professional sports bettors, do you have a lot of privacy concerns in the sense that you want to make sure that like a platform isn't using cookies to trace where you're going around the Internet and you use a VPN and stuff like that to make bets?

28:09So yes and no. One thing that modern sports books, especially legal regulated sports books, are really good at doing is telling where you are, telling your location. So if you try to have a VPN that puts you in a different state, you won't be able to use FanDuel or DraftKings. They're very good at that. So, you know, obviously these companies, like any, you know, modern technology company, they're getting all this data about you. When you sign up for a sports book, they know what your birthday is. They know how old you are. They know where you live, your address. They know all of, you know, your social security number, all this information.

28:40So you do kind of give that up. They also probably know a lot more. They know when you log into the app, they're tracking everything. But there's nothing you can really do about it. So going back to pricing, and you mentioned tennis, but you mentioned these – the more obscure, the less like Bulgarian soccer, tennis, et cetera. Talk to us a little bit more about – I like how you just suggested all of tennis is obscure. Well, you know, it sounds like – In the US. In the US. Yeah, right. Tennis is not in itself obscure, but I guess compared to some of the major sports. Talk to us about that process because, again, it doesn't sound like a science where it's like, OK, you have the liquid markets setting the line and then you try to back out implications, it sounds like, back out implications from that line for what it means.

29:27So imagine if like – who's even big in tennis? My head is still in like the Federer-Nadal era or Djokovic, but Djokovic-Nadal. Djokovic is the edge. Then you try to derive some price for he's going to win and three, four. Talk to us a little bit more about that process of backing out the price for the derivatives from the sort of headline liquid price. It's a great question. So the reality is it's just not a science at all. And I think what's really important here is what Tracy mentioned before, which is that they add a huge additional margin to these derivative and crop markets. And so what that means is that if there's a 30 % house edge in a market, even if you can have a huge edge of 20 % or 25%, it's still very, very difficult to actually beat these markets.

30:13And the incentives from a betting company standpoint are not actually necessarily to have these prices be super, super efficient. They don't really care. They know that most people are not going to bet on these random niche markets that might be mispriced. And if they can, they set the limits very low. So the reason they have these there is that they can have an expanded betting menu so that when you log into the app, you see, oh, my God, there's all of these options. And that's why I'm going to use FanDuel as opposed to some random sportsbook, which doesn't. And FanDuel, they know that you might be able to get an edge here and they're going to monitor that market.

30:45And if you win, they're going to limit you. But they don't really actually care that much about getting the prices perfectly because a lot of these markets are there just so that you can say, hey, we offer all these different markets. What's been the impact on sports themselves? So we mentioned, you know, some of the commentators will sometimes bring up specific plays if there are odds on them and they suddenly pay off. But do you see like the actual activity of sports start to react to all this gambling activity and all the money that's involved with it? Sure. So I think it really depends, as Joe mentioned, you know, between these high profile and lower profile sports.

31:20So in the NBA, these guys are making so much money that it really doesn't impact the actual play. You know, if you're making$30 million a year, you're not really ever going to be incentivized to throw a game or really change the way you play. And it doesn't really factor into there. When it comes to smaller sports, you know, we talk about tennis. There was this big scandal last year where it turned out that someone was running a giant match-fixing ring. And it's because the players playing were making a few hundred dollars a match and the guy was able to bet tens of thousands of dollars in their match.

31:50And so when there's that mismatch, that's when you really get these game integrity issues. In the NBA, there was recently the scandal with Jontae Porter. And he was a very low-level player. He wasn't that significant to the team. He wasn't able to impact the overall outcome of the game. But if you bet – the fact is at Modern Sports Week, you can bet on anything. you can bet on whether or not Jontae Porter will have one or two threes, right? And so that's really the issue when you get into these player props for very niche, unimportant players. For college player props, this is a big debate right now whether or not you should be able to bet on how many points a college basketball player is going to have, because obviously, you know, it's easier to control how many points you have versus throwing an entire game.

32:31And so from a game integrity standpoint, from the major sports, I don't really think it's an issue, but especially for smaller markets and for prop markets, it really can be. But beyond the big risk of match fixing, do you see like, I guess, more of an urge towards like satisfying some of those like single plays? Like maybe, I don't know, like maybe the game like. You're trying really hard to hit a home run. Yeah, well, but not just, I mean like rebounds or whatever. So I think not from the player standpoint, but more from the viewer and the media standpoint, like you mentioned before. I think it's quite sad, you know, even as someone who bets on sports is my job.

33:07It's quite sad that when you watch a game now, you can't escape the betting. And, you know, you imagine a kid watching a game today. He just loves basketball or he loves baseball. He can't appreciate that without being inundated with betting advertisements. And so I think it's less about the game itself, but more everything surrounding it. The experience. Exactly.

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34:52Go to cmk.co slash stories to learn how CBS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's cmk.co slash s-t-o-r-i-e-s. If I started sports betting, I don't think I'd be very good at it, which is why I don't do it. But I probably wouldn't be very good at it. And then the casinos, then the sports books would let me bet more and more, and I would lose more and more money. But then you could sell your account to someone. This is what I was going to ask. Is there some – I don't need the URLs here or anything, but are there places where someone like me or a listener to OddLots who hasn't been a successful sports better?

35:31No, seriously. You mentioned hunting whales. So I'm actually curious about how the whale hunt process works. Yeah. So no, it goes both ways. Both – you can be, let's say, a VIP customer and get really fed up. I'm not encouraging anyone to break the terms of service. But I do want to understand where that happens. Of course, yes. So it can work both ways. Maybe if you're a professional bettor, you can go out and try to network and meet a bunch of rich people who are all betting on sports and say, hey, give me your sports betting account. I can win. It can also work from the other way where you can maybe be a VIP customer who's lost tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars and get really fed up at some point.

36:08And then you can reach out to a professional bettor or a betting group. Maybe you DM them on Twitter and you say, hey, I have this betting account where they let me bet whatever I want. You're really good at this, obviously. Can we partner up? So that's sort of how it can work. So how does all of this play out in the end? You know, if you had to make a bet on the overall direction of the sports betting industry, what would it look like? We've had this, you know, massive, like, liberalization of the market. Lots of people are making money. There's all these new bookmakers and platforms that are coming in.

36:38Everyone has an app now. What happens in the end? Do we see, like, a crackdown eventually as this becomes a bigger and bigger market? So I think just to take a slight issue with part of that, which is that everybody's making a lot of money. Everybody's not making a lot of money. FanDuel and DraftKings, I think, both just became profitable for the first time this year. And pretty much every other sportsbook is losing money. Wait, how is that possible? Because they control the odds. Like I would have assumed, as I just did, that they're minting. Yes. So they're minting when you go in and place a bet.

37:11But there are tons of other costs. Every time you see FanDuel is the official sponsor of a major sports league, that costs them a lot of money. Customer acquisition costs are incredibly high. Actually, six years ago today, the Supreme Court struck down the rule that prevented states from legalizing sports betting. But ever since then, these companies have spent a ton of money trying to acquire customers, to increase their market share, to do all sorts of branding deals. And so it's not just the betting itself, but all of the things surrounding it. And in reality, sports betting is a relatively low margin game compared to other casino games.

37:45So all of these companies, they actually don't care that much about sports betting. Most of this is all an angle for online casino gambling because that's where the real money is. You know, even if you, let's say, lose 5 % on every bet you place, that bet gives you entertainment for two hours. If you're losing 5 % at the roulette wheel and you have that on your phone and you can click it and play a new spin every five seconds, that's where the real money comes. And so when we look at more mature markets like Australia and the U.K. where online gambling has been around for longer, the vast majority of profits for these companies come from online gambling.

38:18When we look at the U.S. right now, online, it's called iGaming, is legal in certain states. It's illegal in most states. But in the states that it's legal, the vast majority of the revenue is coming from iGaming. And that's probably where you're going to see the industry headed. And that's what FanDuel and DraftKings, that's where they envision most of their revenue coming from in the future. I like gambling. I don't really like the table games. I like casinos. The thought of like sitting there, like playing a virtual. Spinning a roulette wheel. It's so depressing. It's really depressing. It's really depressing.

38:46Actually, the most depressing thing that I've seen gambling wise is not even a phone thing. I was in Iceland one time and I was watching this, one of the TV channels was just a woman on the TV channel, like spinning this roulette wheel on TV. And my God, that's so bleak. But it also like, it gets very bleak when you sort of think about the person at home watching a TV network. that's a roulette wheel. Sorry, and so in the UK, for example, we don't have this data yet in the US, but it's incredibly concentrated. So in the UK, 5 % of customers make up about 85 % of the gambling operators' revenue.

39:22And so we don't have those numbers in the US, but you can assume that it's relatively similar for sports betting with iGaming. It's going to be even more extreme. Yeah, Joe, you mentioned Bleak. You haven't seen Bleak until you've seen like Paddy Power on Edgeware Road on, like, a Sunday morning. That's depressing. And it's like, you know, sometimes they show those, you see those, like, GIFs or videos on Twitter of, like, a bunch of old elderly people in the casino, like, hitting the bed over them. At least they're, like, kind of around their friends or something. But the idea of, like, doing that equipment, and, like, casinos are fun, and maybe you even get a free drink, or it's, like, lively and whatever, and you can smoke there.

39:58Oh, that was the other thing that I noticed when I was last in Vegas. You know, a lot of them you can just put your, like, card in now And just keep redrawing on the same machine. It's super grim. But then, so how bad, you know, the other element of this, and Tracy brought up the concerns about like match fixing is like sort of like one societal concern and is particularly acute at the NCAA level where there's no, the players aren't really making much money, if any. And, you know, it sort of disturbs the purity of non-professional amateur sports. But then the other big concern is this sort of like people – tons of articles.

40:35The world of like young men out there, predominantly men, addicted, losing tons of money. How – I don't know. I guess it's a subjective question because everyone is going to have a different perspective. But like what is your view on what's going on? So it's a huge problem. And after I started writing about this issue, a bunch of different addiction counselors and social workers who were working with these people reached out to me. And, you know, the predominant segment of the population, as you mentioned, that was having problems was young men. And in particular, what they told me is that sports betting is different than other forms of gambling because we have this emotional attachment to it.

41:08You know, if you go to the casino, you're always going to have one friend who's like, you know, five reds. The next one must be a black. Classic. Classic. Yeah, I don't understand probabilities. I never have. And but it's totally but that's kind of fine. But, you know, when it comes to sports betting, people are much more delusional when it comes to their ability to win. So, you know, addiction counselors will tell me it's like, you know, I have a 16-year-old boy who comes in. He says, you know, I'm a huge Yankees fan. I know the Yankees are a lock tonight. It doesn't matter if they're, you know, three-to-one favorites, four-to-one favorites, five-to-one favorites.

41:36I know they're a lock. And when you're delusional about your ability to win, that's when this activity can get really risky. And you're more likely to double down, chase your losses, and really exhibit signs of problem gambling. And so it's not necessarily that that sports betting is riskier than other forms of gambling. But particularly when it comes to young men and, you know, it gets into this ego and you think you have an edge when you don't. And that's what that's what's really scary and what's really dangering. And there are all of these companies which are actually, you know, catering to minors.

42:04Really, there are these things called social sports books where you don't necessarily deposit with real money. You use like coins and they're really targeting young kids, apps like PrizePix and Underdog Daily Fantasy, which are essentially just sports betting. And they're available to people, you know, that are 18 and over instead of 21 and over. And, you know, this this delusion combined with a lack of understanding of how much the house actually wins is creating a huge swath of the population who are losing a lot of money, but they maybe don't even realize it or they think that, you know, they're just one.

42:35They're one bet away from from winning big. I just have one more question. And, you know, taking all of this into account, what advice would you give to Joe as he heads to Vegas? It's a great question. I would say, you know, go with the amount of money that you're willing to lose and, you know, try to stick to it. Obviously easier said than done. You know what's really funny about that? Go have a good time. So I recently lost my debit card and I realized, you know, because Vegas needs cash. So I asked my wife, I was like, oh, I need to bring your debit card to Vegas. And she was like, well, why don't I just get out some cash?

43:09No, I did. I said, why don't I bring your debit card to Vegas? And she said, well, how about I just give you some cash and then you limit your gambling to whatever the amount of cash we do? And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not setting a cap. So she agreed. Thank you. Do you want me to share my now obsolete crap system with you? Then you can make you make negative money. One way to address the suicidal concerns would be to ban sports betting. But it doesn't seem like that. It seems like we're going full on in the other direction. Are there regulatory moves that I guess could actually sort of curb the addiction side and the devastation that can cause whatever percentage of betters do get hooked while maintaining these viable businesses?

43:54Sure. So when it comes to sort of the optimal regulations or what we can do, I kind of think that there are three things that we can do. The first is, you know, better regulations when it comes to advertising. As Tracy mentioned, it's not just the frequency of the ads, but that they're really deceptive. You shouldn't be able to run a sports betting ad where it's a guy with a big check in hand and it's like, join now and you'll win big. And then there's, you know, a little thing at the bottom of the screen which says gamble responsibly. What the heck does that mean? There's a 1-800 number. You know, it's 2024.

44:22No one is calling those. You know, why instead of gamble responsibly, isn't there, you know, a mandatory message that says 99 % of people who gamble will lose money? And, you know, maybe even if you win, we're going to kick you out. So that's the first thing, just the deceptiveness of the ads. The second thing is some things that should be done in app to make them more transparent. So if you're on, you know, a lot of these sports betting apps, it's very difficult to figure out how much money you've won or lost. And that's intentional. You know, it should be mandated that when you go to the My Account page on any sports book, they show you how much money you've won or lost in the last month or over the course of the lifetime account.

44:58Fairly simple stuff. And then the last thing I would say is we need more research, right? I don't know all of the exact solutions. I don't think anybody does. But we need good research. And a lot of the research out there right now isn't that good. It's funded by the industry, which has obvious problems. But there are some simple things you can do. For example, a lot of these sites like to use things like responsible gambling tools, like deposit or time limits, where you say, you know, if you had set a deposit limit of$1 ,000 a month, once you reach that, you can't deposit anymore. And all of these are opt-in.

45:29And the reality is that we know that no one uses these tools. Why not try to have these things be opt out instead of opt in like we do for, you know, organ donation when it comes to, you know, when you're getting your driver's license? That might increase adoption. But the reality is, you know, you make, you know, these sports betting companies team up with some researchers, have it be government or impartial funding that's not funded by the research to see what stuff actually can work as opposed to the industry giving a bunch of money and saying, you know, here's what we think would happen because we know that's not going to work.

45:57So identifying flaws and actually having that alpha to identify mispricing still seems like kind of a mystery to me. Sure. Yeah. So I'll give you one example, which is from a buddy that I work with. He made a lot of money off this, which was sportsbooks used to offer and they still offer this bet on which basketball team is going to score the first point. And in general, the way that they would price this bet is it's, you know, roughly a 50 50. And sometimes the better team would be slightly favored. And because, you know, there's a tip off at the beginning and whoever wins that, it's roughly 50 percent.

46:26And whoever, you know, gets the ball first, that team is going to be more likely to score. But what they didn't factor in and what my buddy and a bunch of other people realized is that it's not actually a 50-50 because some teams have centers who are much taller than the other team. So, for example, if, you know, our two teams are going up against each other and my guy who's jumping is seven foot two and your guy who's jumping is six foot nine, my guy is going to win the ball toss a lot more of the time. And as a result, our team is going to start with the ball a lot more. And that means that they're going to score the first point much more often.

46:56So that's kind of a simple example of how you can identify an edge in a market. And the important thing there is that that's a market that's derived from a model. It's not a market where the prices are derived through price discovery. So knowing how tall a center is is not going to give you an edge when betting on who's going to win a game, but it might give you an edge when betting on who's going to score the first point. And I have one last short question, actually, I realized. If someone wants to be a professional sports bettor, what should they know about themselves to say, actually, I'm the type of person that can live this life?

47:25The key is being able to handle variance. I think it's really easy to win and everybody is, you know, everybody's really happy when you win, but it's really hard to lose. And especially if you're gambling professionally or even if you're gambling recreationally, that's when it gets hard. Even if you're betting with an edge, you can still lose, you know, five, ten bets in a row. You can lose a lot of money. And the real problems people have is when you start doubling down, you're chasing these losses, all of these problems. And so the emotional regulation involved, especially when you're losing, to try to keep your cool and not go crazy, that's the most important thing, both for anybody who wants to try to do this professionally, which I probably wouldn't recommend, and anybody who even wants to do this for fun.

48:08It's just make sure that you're able to control your emotions, especially when you're losing. Can you put a stop loss order on your gambling book? So you can. Like pre-program one? So you can. You can use these deposit limits where you say, OK, I'm not going to do more than$1 ,000 a month. And at that point, they won't allow you to. In reality, they just don't really work in that no one uses them. And then you can always just go to another sportsbook where you haven't put that in and then go gamble there. So you can. But the problem is when we put the entire onus on the user and we have this personal responsibility, it's just not going to work.

48:40What we need is more active regulation of these companies. Isaac Rose Berman, that was fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on OddLots. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

49:02Tracy, I thought that was great. That demystified several things about this industry that I hadn't appreciated. Same. Again, this is something I'm totally unfamiliar with, but I thought Isaac laid it out all really clearly. Is it bad that I've come away wanting to make sports bets? It would be bad if that's what our listeners took away from it. I guess if you want to make a few sports bets, I trust you to handle your... The world's most complicated single game parlay. You know what would be fun? No, actually, I want to do it. We should. You know what we should do? Actually, this would be fun. we should both open up accounts and you like bet on the or you like bet on like you know austrian rules football or some other sport that i've never heard and i'll bet on the yankees let's do this this is an experiment and i'll just like bet on the yankees and the mets and let's just watch what happens to our position limits over time yeah actually i think that'd be fun we start with like the same amount of money and take it from there all right i would do that all right let's do that i mean i have to say when it comes to um soccer or football i've kind of i've given up on the purity of the sport as as a long time football fan who's watched fifa for a long time i just like it just doesn't matter to me anymore so yeah i might as well make some money off of it uh i also thought um you know even though isaac didn't identify it as like the key issue here the very the betting constraints and the fact that basically if you're good you're not allowed to bet very much and the idea that if you're good like that strikes me it's very unfair and that seems like kind of obvious but again you know thinking about because people look at um you know when people get anxious and further browse about sports betting they're like well why don't you get the you know you don't you know financial markets are a casino too and that's kind of true but if you're good at financial markets or if you're good at trading if you're good at investing or stock selection, they're not going to cut you off or de facto cut you off by telling you you can only invest a dollar in a stock.

51:00Totally. It feels very animal farm to me. It's like everyone is allowed to make money, but everyone is also allowed to be prevented from making money. The other thing we'll do after you and I do our experiment, no, I won't do this, but it would be fun to see who would buy one of our, I won't do that because that is a service violation. But I'd be curious what the market rate for my account where I lost a lot of money. For our naivete. We can put a price on our lack of expertise. The other thing that was really interesting, and I would love to dig into this more, but the sort of third party pricing of some of the more exotic plays.

51:35I would love to know who those companies actually are and how they come up with those numbers. Some of it, just to return to traditional finance and markets, some of it reminds me of the third party pricing providers in credit. Yeah, exactly. And they use matrix modeling where they're sort of triangulating the market price for something that doesn't actually trade that much. Now, there's so much good stuff here. I like one of the things that's fun about these types of episodes where we explore a new market is we learn things about traditional markets that we didn't necessarily see before. But by looking at them in another context, suddenly things we're more familiar with become legible in a new way.

52:16Absolutely. Shall we leave it there? Let's leave it there. This has been another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast. I'm Tracy Allaway. You can follow me at Tracy Allaway. And I'm Joe Weisenthal. You can follow me at The Stalwart. Follow our guest, Isaac Rose Berman. He's at RoundRobin42. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at CarmenArmin, Dashiell Bennett at Dashbot, and Kale Brooks at Kale Brooks. Thank you to our producer, Moses Andam. For more All Thoughts content, go to Bloomberg.com slash All Thoughts. We have transcripts of all our episodes, a blog, and a newsletter. It comes out every Friday.

52:47Go sign up for it. And you can chat about all of these topics 24-7 with fellow listeners of the podcast in our Discord, discord.gg.odlots. And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you like it when we do deep dives into new markets like sports gambling, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad-free. All you need to do is connect your Bloomberg account with Apple Podcasts. In order to do that, just go to the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts and it'll give you instructions.

53:22Thanks for listening.

53:46Bye.

54:29Welcome to the Odd Lots podcast on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Joe Weisenthal. And I'm Tracy Alloway. Today you are listening to our conversation with professional sports better and writer Isaac Rose Berman about how a sports better actually makes money. Stay tuned for more of our interview with Isaac Rose Berman. He is a professional sports better, and we are talking about the explosion in gambling in the U.S. To hear the full conversation, subscribe to OddLots wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Tracy Alloway. And I'm Joe Weisenthal, and this is OddLots on Bloomberg Radio. This is OddLots on Bloomberg Radio.

55:03I'm Joe Weisenthal. And I'm Tracy Alloway. Today's episode is looking at the business of sports gambling. How do the gamblers make and lose money? How do the casinos make and lose money? Our guest, Isaac Rose Berman, a professional sports bettor and writer. More to come from our conversation with professional sports bettor and writer, Isaac Rose Berman. We're talking all things sports betting. I'm Tracy Alloway. I'm Jill Weisenthal, and this is Odd Lots on Bloomberg Radio. To hear all of our episodes in full, be sure to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform. You're listening to the Odd Lots podcast on Bloomberg Radio.

55:41I'm Joe Weisenthal. And I'm Tracy Alloway. On today's show, we are discussing the explosion of sports betting. Our guest is Isaac Rose Berman, a professional sports bettor and a writer at HowGamblingWorks.com. This has been All Thoughts on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Tracy Alloway. And I'm Joe Weisenthal. To hear the rest of this episode and all of our other interviews, be sure to subscribe to All Thoughts wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. All right. We good? Thanks. Great. That was a lot of fun. That was so good.

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