Meet the Politician the AI Industry Is Trying to Stop

23:48With thousands of glowing five-star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty System for just$49.95. That includes our introductory five-piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60-day money-back guarantee. All of that available at MeaningfulBeauty.com. So one of the things about the politics of AI, and I mentioned at the beginning, it's very multifaceted. Because there are people that are worried about safety, people are worried about ethics, people are worried about water, people are worried about electricity, people are worried about job displacement, etc.

24:20et cetera. As a candidate for office, how do you think about some of these other AI concerns out there beyond simply the safety stuff? Oh, there's a lot that we need to do. The chatbots, I think, are in some sense safety when you think of what's happening to kids, but very much talked about in a different sort of conversation. And even expanding that out to AI's effect on our kids broadly in our education system. You can imagine a really positive world where every student has an individualized tutor at exactly their level and teaches them in the exact way that they want to learn to supplement what they're getting from teachers.

24:58But what we have right now is we haven't updated our pedagogy. And so a lot of people think assigning an essay still teaches critical thinking. We need to do a lot on the education system. We need to do a lot on the workforce, as you mentioned. We need to do a lot on the environment. And we're missing a golden an opportunity here because our grid is extremely old and we need to pay for the upgrades and government doesn't really know how to do that. We've been passing off the cost to rate payers. Now you have an unlimited set of private capital, it seems, that wants to invest to build data centers.

25:30Why aren't we using that to actually upgrade our grid and to require renewable energy and have it there? Instead, we're building these data centers but saying rate payers have to pay for the interconnects. It makes no sense. Does this issue, just AI in general, does it actually resonate with voters at the moment? Because in some sense, you're trying to get ahead of things, right? Because in the future, I know we said AI is all over the news and we see it everywhere, but in the future, it's going to be more embedded in our lives. So you're trying to get ahead of that. Do people care at the moment?

26:04It's already embedded in their lives. They're seeing it. And And it's not just, you know, their kids in school. It's not just the entry level unemployment at 9%. You know, we just saw a teddy bear that was sent out with Chachi BT embedded in it that taught a kid how to find matches. It's Teddy Ruxpin upgraded. Do you remember that? I was walking down St. Mark Street the other day. I have to say, unfortunately, I thought those were pretty clever. Someone set up a thing where there was like a animatronic puppet that had a camera in it and that it was embedded with an LLM. It was doing insult comics of the people who were walking by.

26:42Oh, my God. So like someone would walk by and they're like, so you think you bought it? Like with a big Uniqlo bag. I was like, so you think you bought enough of Uniqlo today? But I was like, oh, this is clever. What did it say to you? It was super clever. My kids loved it. I was like, oh, this is like a really clever thing. Wait, what did it say to you, Phil? I think I stayed out. I watched the other people go back. I stayed on the side. I was like, oh, this is actually, my kids loved it. We'll leave that as an exercise to the listener to walk by and report back. What does it say to you? Are you optimistic about AI?

27:13Like, are you pro-AI in the sense that you think that this will be important, productive, positive technology that is important to continue developing? It can be, but only if the American people have a voice in how it develops. It is the technology that has the widest bounds of what could potentially come from it. And the only thing that comes close is nuclear energy and nuclear fission, right? So if you put yourself in the mindset of someone in the 1930s, you had one set of people saying, nuclear fusion is coming. We're about to have clean, unlimited energy and live in utopia. And you had another set of people that said, we're all going to be dead from nuclear bombs in 10 years, right?

27:51And the reality is we've ended up somewhere in the middle. AI, we're at that moment right now where you have people saying basically that wide of a potential outcome. And it's up to us in our policy to make sure that the worst case doesn't happen so that we can have as much of the best case as possible. Like what AI could do for medical research, for curing diseases is remarkable. My mom has multiple sclerosis. Autoimmune diseases are some of the hardest for modern medicine to deal with. I am incredibly optimistic of what could come from some of this research. It's just that the same capabilities that will allow us to cure diseases could, in the wrong hands, allow someone to build a bioweapon.

28:30And we just need to be thoughtful on how we go. I guess I'm worried about bioweapons. I'm also worried about very mundane things. Just like the new Gemini image generator is just stunning to me in terms of the degree of fidelity, like how easily you really can't tell anymore. Like a year ago, you could say, oh, that looks like an AI image. We're basically past that. other things like bots and stuff like that things that replicate our voice these aren't like ultra science fiction things like a machine that's going to like manufacture a bioweapon or something like that but they're day-to-day pervasive phenomenon that's sort of like they're gonna make me trust people less they're gonna make it harder to communicate like this sort of what do we do about that can we nerd out about deepfakes because this is a solvable problem and one that that i think most people are missing the boat on so it's always been presented to us as like oh you'll have to learn how to see what's wrong with an AI image.

29:25That's never going to work. They're going to get better and better. Maybe we're already past the point where a human could see it. But that's not how we've solved these problems in the past. If you go back to the 90s, people said, we'll never have internet banking because you don't know that the computer on the other end is actually the one that you're talking to. And then we moved from HTTP to HTTPS. That was a solvable problem. That basically same technique works for images, video, and for audio. So there is a free open source metadata standard that industry has created called C2PA, Content Credential Provenance Authority, that you can attach to any standard file format that cryptographically proves whether that content was taken from a real device generated by AI and or how it was edited over time.

30:10The challenge is the creator has to attach it. And so you need to get to a place where that is the default option. So if you see an image and it doesn't have that cryptographic proof, you should be skeptical. Like that would be the idea where it's so pervasive that the expectation is I could test very quickly whether the creator has attached this. It'd be like going to your banking website and only loading HTTP, right? You would instantly be suspect. But you can still produce the images. And I guess I've been reading a book called The New Age of Sexism, and it's about technology and discrimination against women.

30:46And it has some awful, awful stories of schoolgirls whose classmates like, you know, put them in porn videos and things like that. And one of the problems is there's no rule saying that you can't actually do that. So even if you know that it's fake, it can still be harmful. What do you do about that? Well, there are laws in New York state that ban it and in other states have taken action. And that's yet another reason why this AI preemption is such a scary thought, because states are leading the way right now in stopping some of these absolute worst uses. I'm very excited for Congress to actually solve these problems for there to actually be federal standards.

31:23I'm running on the platform of creating these federal standards. But until they do, stopping states from taking action like against deepfake porn of children. I mean, that's the stakes of what we're talking about. Can we talk about Palantir for a second? Definitely. It's a rough segue. What did you do there? So I joined Palantir as a data scientist in 2014, and I left as one of the five overall leads of the government business. I spent the vast majority of my time in the federal civilian side of it. So I worked with the Census Bureau and the Bureau of Economic Analysis on updating how they calculate GDP.

32:00We actually made a change to the way they account for spending around moving holidays, holidays that are sometimes in Q1, sometimes in Q2, like Easter, a paper I'm very, very proud of. And it's a rounding error of a rounding error on how we calculate GDP, but it did actually lead to a change. I led our work with the Department of Justice to go after the opioid epidemic and to solve some violent crimes. I worked with Veterans Affairs to better staff their hospitals to make sure that veterans get the care that they deserve and need. I worked with the CDC to better track epidemics. It was about allowing government to make better use of the data that they already had to serve the American people.

32:38And what does Palantir actually do? I feel like we ask this question a lot. Well, I think it's because it's a fundamentally unsexy thing and people like to dress it up. But it's data integration and analysis. It's making it different data sources that you have access to talk to each other, be updated constantly. Like Palantir was founded around a time when data lakes and data clouds were like the big thing. What's a data lake again? Yeah, exactly. But it's just putting... Actually, I'm asking, what is a data lake? I don't know what that means. Putting all of your data in one place. Okay. People can access it, right?

33:15And that was supposed to revolutionize everyone's ability to do anything. But just putting data in one place doesn't actually make a change. And some of the things that Palantir has really put at the forefront, like an ontology, right, a view from on high of what each piece of data is supposed to mean can actually lead to better analysis. So I'll give you an example from my work at the Department of Justice. And I actually I have two software patents for this project, which was we were helping them analyze banks behavior leading up to the Great Recession and how they were packaging mortgages into securities.

33:51and each security would have a loan tape. Here's the 1 ,000 loans that are in it. And some of those loans would not be up to the standards that were required. And that would occasionally be flagged before an issuance. Hey, this loan isn't up to your standards. They would pull the loan out and then their next issuance put the loan back in, right? And so if you could find that pattern of behavior, you could maybe prove that they had knowledge that that loan wasn't good and were still putting it out there. The problem is that eDiscovery software, right, All the data was there, but it was just taught to think of an Excel document as a document that a lawyer would read.

34:27And so there was no way in the software to track those individual loans. But if you think of an individual loan as its own object that should be something that can be searched and tracked across the database, then that analysis becomes very easy to do. So that was something that we enabled at Palantir was putting this ontology of what's the right level for each object. Oh, a loan is a meaningful instance. Let's make it so you can search and analyze an individual loan versus a document. How has your experience at Palantir actually informed your approach to government? Because we've done episodes on why government software is so bad.

35:02And I think you're one of the few politicians out there who actually knows how to code. Possibly the only one. No, there's going to be a couple others. You think? Two or three. I don't know. We'll find them. Yeah. I am the first Democrat elected in New York state at any level with a degree in computer science. I do think there have been nationwide like four or five Congress members that have that. So they're out there. But my time at Palantir informs what I do in government, I think, in two main ways. The first is the work isn't done when the bill is signed. Right. It's about the actual implementation.

35:34Everything Palantir does is about implementing things that have already been passed. And there's huge challenges in getting it to work. But the second thing is that basis in data and actually tracking your results and seeing how you've done over time. So few politicians will say, hey, that bill I passed two years ago, here's how it's working. And even more rare is here's how it's not. I did my town hall three weeks ago. I once a year get up in front of my entire constituency, spend two hours answering any questions people have. We don't screen it at all. But I let off actually with, hey, here's a bill I passed a year ago and the data shows it's not working.

36:07And here's what I've learned about that and how we're going to change that. How exactly do you judge performance by the government? Because I like the idea of like tracking, I guess, alpha in the civil service in some way. But would it just be based on the bill execution or, I guess, response rates from the public? How would you do that? So I'll give you an example. We passed a bill to raise the statutory maximum fine on telemarketers. By far my most popular bill. But the question is, that's the statutory maximum. does that actually lead to more fines, to higher fines, to more negotiated settlements?

36:42Is raising that a pressure? And so we just looked at the Secretary of State's data of how much were the fines before that bill was passed and afterwards. And we found there were four times as many fines actually there. So raising the statutory max brought the bad companies to the table to actually negotiate and hopefully is changing that behavior. The example I gave of one that didn't work was around mopeds and e-bikes in New York. So, you know, this is I'm going to be very local to New York. I know there's a nationwide nationwide primary. But it'd be nice if there were some some talk of actual relevant things to the 12th district.

37:16So so we have these delivery vehicles that are whizzing all over and people are scared as they see them go the wrong way, etc. And there's a lot of discussion about what we can do to make people safe on the streets. One aspect is that mopeds were already required to be registered in New York state, but almost never were. so i passed a bill that would require mopeds to be registered at the point of sale right so think about how many mopeds you think exist in new york city the number that were actually registered when the bill came into effect this january was about 1700 wow uh and so by the way this would be like one of those like hedge fund interview questions how many mopeds are in new york city i want to see how your brain thinks and i think if your answer is 1700 the hedge fund's not hiring you Right.

38:00Like that is not what you would estimate. My thesis was it was that people were walking out the store without registering and told to do that. We looked a month ago. The number that are registered is now fourteen hundred. So it's not that people weren't registering when they came to the store. It's that registration expires after a year and no one's re-registering. So that was an example of like I had a thesis. I passed the bill. I think the bill is still overall good. People should register as they leave the store. But it didn't actually solve the problem we were out to solve. And here's now what I'm going to do about it.

38:27And I think we need a lot more of that in government. Wait, what are you going to do about it? Well, we're thinking about how we can encourage the actual registration, the re-registration over time. So one of the aspects is requiring all of the delivery apps to actually check that the drivers are registered when they sign up and to make sure they keep that up to date. Makes sense to me. You know, it feels like we're like in this sort of era of everyday, you know, mentioned telemarketers, like we're just just like wading through the muck of like low-level scams everywhere. Every day I get text messages and they'll say like from an unknown number of people, Joe, are you coming to barbecue?

39:03And I'm like, I don't know. I might've like said, I might've agreed to eat barbecue with someone. That sounds like something I could have done, but I'm like pretty sure it's fake. There's, you go on like Amazon and there's AI generated books about books and every author. Just generally, it feels like we're in a culture and economy, an era of like persistent low level grift across almost every dimension of our lives. And I'm sure there's many reasons for it. But when people talk about a low trust society and what's happening, how much of this do you think is just because like we're inundated with people trying to rob us every day and somewhat digitally or otherwise?

39:43I think that's a big part of it. And the only way to solve that problem is you need actual enforcement. You need there to be consequences. Sorry, just to follow up on this. I guess the reason I'm asking is because it's like someone running for office, they moved to the 12th district and they're like, I'm going to call out Trump's corruption. And there are all these, Trump is a lot, all this big stuff and whatever. Many of these issues are legitimate, et cetera. But almost nobody in elected office seems to be just talking about who's going to do something about the text message scams? Who's going to be do something about the AI books?

40:20All of these big national issues, but that doesn't affect me on a day-to-day basis, the way this persistent abuse of technology constantly does every minute of my life. I think that's why podcasts like this are great because you get into the details. No, but the top level news doesn't cover a lot of that. I have a colleague, John Rivera, who has a bill in the state assembly on requiring disclosure for AI generated books on Amazon. Like that specific example is a bill that exists in New York. The telemarketing bill I pass also applies to text messages. And so we tell people how to report those and maybe get fines coming from that.

40:56I think this is key to both parties in 2026 is talking about just government's effect and trying to make life a little bit better. I think my other most popular bill besides the telemarketing one was my click to cancel bill this year to allow New Yorkers. I would love that. It's now you're right. As of October 1st, New Yorkers need to be able to cancel a subscription the same way they signed up for it. I have a Condé Nast subscription that I've been trying to cancel for like a year and I cannot log into the site. I can't find the original email where I like actually signed up for it. And that's, I think,$12 a month that I'm just wasting.

41:30I mean, government needs to get big things done. Absolutely. But we also need to get small things right. You just need to make life better.

42:12We'll see you next time. year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the S &P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1 % bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash podcast. Paid for by public investing brokerage services by open to the public investing inc member finra sipc advisory services by public advisors llc sec registered advisor generated assets is an interactive analysis tool output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures hey guys it's erin andrews from calm down with erin and carissa so when the pressure's on you remember the people who helped you get this far whose knowledge guided you and whose care kept you grounded for me it was my dad my mentor, who believed in me when I was just getting started in journalism.

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45:13All of that available at MeaningfulBeauty.com. Apropos of nothing, this is a completely random seg, but one of the interesting things about Eric Adams was his interest in digital assets and cryptocurrency and tokenization and all of that. What did you think about those efforts? Do they actually matter to the industry and to New York more widely? Or is it just sort of a pet project? I have not seen the direct results of what he was working on. That doesn't mean they weren't there. It's just not where I have been focused. I actually worked on a different bill this year around crypto in the legislature where New York really took the lead in creating legal structures for many of these companies through the limited purpose trust and the bit license.

46:01But now with new action at the federal level, they have said, you know, there's going to be federal licensing for these trust companies for stable coins, and they will defer to states, but only if the states have detailed rules in legislation or regulation, in statute or regulation. And New York's done it almost all by guidance. And so I really fought for a bill this year to standardize what DFS had done in random opinions, put it into statute so that people know what the rules of the road are, and so that New York can keep its regulatory structure. It passed the Senate. Unfortunately, we didn't get it done in the Assembly.

46:37And now most of the companies in New York are just applying for the federal charter. And we as New Yorkers are going to lose our ability to engage. So I think regardless of your broad view on crypto, finding ways to set rules of the road that allow for innovation and allow for us to have a say in how it develops is something everyone should get behind. You know, I'm looking at a map of the New York 12th Congressional District. I think one thing that really stands out is not some weird snaky district. It's just a real big square in the middle of Manhattan. Like people who don't live here might not appreciate this is like, this is prime real estate you're running for.

47:12I mean, this might be the highest GDP district in the world, or in the country, or pretty close to it, right? Pretty close to it, if not the one, yes. There's more Fortune 500 companies headquartered there than I think at least 37 states. You're a few blocks away from me, by the way. I'm in the East Village. It looks like it just cuts off a few blocks. We'll fix it in redistricting. It must be weird, like, you know, thinking about going back to the beginning with the tech industry and criticizing you. And it must be sort of weird that, like, you're a politician who could actually, like, talk in, like, gigaflops and stuff like that.

47:44Because there's a lot of, like, anti-AI people, et cetera, whatever, or open standards for digital encryption. It must be kind of interesting that, OK, here is someone who wants to hold the industry to some legislative standards who is frankly like – Knowledgeable. Informed. Yeah, yeah. Knowledgeable. Yeah. That must be sort of weird for them. I think it is, and I think it's why all of their spending against me so far is backfiring because people are like, oh, yeah, who is this guy who doesn't understand tech who's doing uninformed things? And then it's like, wait, it's the guy with software patents who worked at Palantir who has a master's in computer science.

48:21There is a disconnect there. I think, you know, I have support from a lot of the people that are like my age that work in the tech industry, the ones actually building it because they see the power of what they're building and think there should be some protections for it. It's really those at the top who are, I think, primarily focused on profits that don't want government getting involved at all. I have a theoretical question going back to the idea of hedge funds asking random questions to see how you think. If you had, I don't know, a Bloomberg terminal equivalent of government data, what would you be most excited about looking up?

48:58Or what correlation would you be most excited about finding? That is a great question. I'm going to stall at first by pointing out that I actually do have a certification in the Bloomberg terminal for my first job. So I'm imagining this realistically. So you know that all we do on the terminal is just look at two lines that correlate. I've proved correlation. I think ways of running more, well, not maybe running more natural experiments, but looking at over time, how investments the government make pays off. So we only budget year by year. And so you have things like investing in early child care that boosts your immediate who can be employed, but also like will help the kids if you have universal pre-K, et cetera.

49:46But that payback in the government, if you're just thinking fiscally, is not going to come for 20, 30 years. And as we budget year to year, we think of that as a cost. I think if we had more ways of tying the effects previously in budgets with what we're seeing now, it would change radically where we would invest. Have you played around with the AI cogeneration apps much? Yeah, yeah. So I when I came into office, one of the things I really wanted was a coder on staff. I was like, there's so many creative things we could do of doing prototypes of government software or playing with the data. But we don't pay legislative staff nearly enough.

50:28It's one of one of the positions I've been most radicalized in office. But I had this idea of all these projects I wanted to get done. And finally this year, Hunter College gave me an intern that was a CS major. And so I gave her this list of like 10 projects and she got through three of them and they were great. But I looked at the other seven and I was like, these are things that I know how to do, but it's not like worth my time at the moment versus all the things I have to do. But has AI coding sped up how quickly I can do these that it becomes worth it? And I mostly use ChatGPT, which I know Claude and Gemini have played with, but I was able to knock out three of those projects this year because of how more advanced the coding has become.

51:12It's pretty cool. Alex Boris, thank you so much for coming on OddLoss. That was a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

51:30It must be kind of weird. You know, I said it near the end, but an AI critic that knows something about tech, because there are a lot of AI critics out there, and I don't get the impression a lot of them are particularly actually well-informed and do not actually understand the sort of strongest version of the argument that they're running against. So it's interesting that this PAC, this pro-artificial intelligence PAC, has decided to target someone who I think a lot of people listen to. It's like, actually, he knows what he's talking about. He sounds pretty reasonable. He's also the first one they're targeting, right?

52:02So it'll be interesting to see who they go after. Yeah. After him. The other thing I was thinking is if you think about one of the threats to big tech's business models, it's always regulation, right? Or at least they say it's regulation. They seem to hate regulation or over regulation, I should say. So if you think about proposing some basic safety guardrails and privacy, that would seem like a good thing to me in the sense that maybe you could restore some of the trust or faith between the general population and the big tech companies. And then you wouldn't get these massive fights about everything else.

52:42But that's probably a long shot. It does seem like I have to say that while a lot of what he said made a lot of sense or sort of sounded very reasonable, you know, I do think that it's legitimate concern like these issues aren't going to hobble DeepSeek. Now, well, does DeepSeek want to be in the app store and can U.S. laws enjoin them from being in the app store? Sure. But they're not going to hobble DeepSeek's development of a model. And if they want to be a dominant player in every country but the U.S. and they're completely unconstrained and the American advanced labs are constrained, I do think that is a legitimate concern that the industry might have.

53:24I also think it's a probably a legitimate concern that you don't want to disincentivize the reporting of safety issues, that if a company gets penalized for acknowledging that something in their model violated some safety line, you do not want to have the risk of like, oh, we're just going to ignore this. and I think it's reasonable that the industry might be concerned that regulations could benefit the incumbents. He argued against that. He's like, no, this is not going to affect startups, et cetera. But there is always that risk that a monetary fine is something that's very easy for big companies to pay and more marginal ones are more difficult.

54:04So these are very tricky things. But on the surface, more than on the surface, an extremely knowledgeable guy who what he says, none of it sounds particularly ridiculous. And I have to say, if I were running in a primary that had like 25 people, including like a Kennedy heir and some guy on Twitter who like posts orange man bad a lot of times, that sounds like a good way to stand out from the crowd to be the AI industry's number one target. You know, I agree with you on the incumbent point, but just in terms of US versus China, I think people forget that China has its own restrictions quite severe ones on censorship, right?

54:45And trawling, I guess, every single communication in the world in case someone mentions a certain cartoon character seems like that's a big regulatory burden as well. So I don't know. I find the competition aspect of it overhyped in some sense. But anyway, we could talk about this for ages, and a lot of these issues are clearly ongoing Yes. And no one has the, the solution yet. We're trying to work that out. All right. Shall we leave it there? Let's leave it there. This has been another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway. And I'm Jill Weisenthal.

55:21You can follow me at The Stalwart. Follow our guest, Alex Boris. He's at Alex Boris. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Armid, Dashiell Bennett at Dashbot, and Kale Brooks at Kale Brooks. And for more Odd Thoughts content, you can find all of our episodes in the daily newsletter at bloomberg.com slash oddlots. And you can chat with fellow listeners in our Discord 24-7, discord.gg slash oddlots. And if you enjoy Oddlots, if you like it when we do these AI episodes, then please leave a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad-free.

55:57All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.

56:11Thank you.

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57:44At CVS, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At CVS, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So visit us at cvs.com or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Sunday mornings, I've got my game day ritual.

58:26Coffee, lucky socks, and now new morning Uncrustable sandwiches. It's all about that 12-gram protein boost with the new Uncrustables bright-eyed berry or up-and-apple flavors. Bright-eyed berries got a feisty receiver energy. Up and Apple, your classic do-it-all tight end. Soft, pillowy, packed with protein, and easy enough for Gronk to grab from the freezer. Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate, or heading to the locker room, new morning Uncrustable sandwiches are the MVP of snacks. Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with new morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

59:22Janice Torres here. And I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks. We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners. The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.