Why Apple Is Heading Into a Pivotal Moment

23:22And so John G, JG, as he goes as inside of Apple. He was the senior VP of AI at Apple. He was hired in 2018. This was the guy who was supposed to make sure that Apple became dominant in AI, in generative AI, totally missed the boat, apparently didn't see it coming or if he saw it coming, did not put the right staff and resources on it. So clearly that was a big miss and Apple should still be embarrassed about it.

23:47Tracy Alloway:I think it's worth noting, by the way here, Apple is trading at an all-time high. And actually some of the other, So the companies that are among the really big tech companies that have invested more in AI and are doing quite better are not necessarily. Yeah, but Apple, I would be happy for them if this was a strategy. No, no, no. They fell ass backwards into it. I totally get it. But what I'm saying is that the market has not really penalized them for the fact that they're not really a player in AI. whereas you have these companies that are very serious players in AI, and I'm thinking like Google and Microsoft, and they're like, the market has not rewarded them for having technology that is near the AI frontier.

24:35Tracy Alloway:Now, when we talk about AI at Apple, I think there's sort of like two different things that we could be talking about. So one of them is what we'd say like edge-based AI, is there AI that's like on the chip that can make a photo render much better than say like a traditional camera architecture? That's like one kind of way we talk about AI. It does a better job of like capturing what the user wants to capture using artificial intelligence. And then there is this other question of like, well, is the company building something that we call a large language model, which is a very separate conversation.

25:16Tracy Alloway:And it's a different way of like understanding what we're talking about with AI. Right here, right now, 2026. So it's like, okay, inside Apple, we want to correct our past 10 years of like missing out on AI. What do they want to achieve with AI? Well, there's a lot here. And I think I'll take it back to why Apple's at an all-time high. I think investors are smart and they actually have a good understanding of what kind of company Apple is. And Apple is not an AI company. It's not a hardware company. It's not a software company. It's a product company. The magic of Apple, and this was Steve's big thing, is bringing it all together in one package.

25:56Apple may not have the best phone in terms of the technology or the camera, but the complete package, unambiguously the best. I think consumers realize that AI is going to shift into products, and products that combine hardware, software, services, and AI. And you're going to see some great stuff from them coming in the future. We'll get back to it in the roadmap section in the podcast. But I think that's their goal, to create products that merge all these things together, where the AI disappears into the background. Now, I want to go back 12 years ago.

26:27Tracy Alloway:Okay. 12 years ago, Apple started this big project. The idea was to compete with Tesla and build an autonomous car. I remember that. And that project was canceled in February of 2024, so two and a half years ago. So they spent well over 10 billion on it, hired thousands of people, reorganized the company around it. And closing a project of this magnitude is not something that has a comparison in Apple history. This was unprecedented. It was a complete disaster, a huge failure. But there was one piece of the pie there that is actually really interesting. It's called the Apple Neural Engine. And so in order to do self-driving cars, you need to process a ton of data at very high speeds in real time.

27:12See the world around you, process it, and so the car knows where it's going. And the magic sauce that Apple was trying to create for the Apple car was the smartest onboard computer or chip in order to do level five autonomous driving. that chip they started working on around 2014 eventually got shrunk down into what they call the neural engine of the a &e and they put it in the iphone 10 in 2017 and that's what allowed features like face id and animoji and augmented reality to work so the only reason that apple has some of the more sophisticated ai hardware on device processing in their phones and computers and what have you is because of the Apple car project 12 years ago.

27:54And so that's a little secret background. If it wasn't for the Apple car, Apple would be even in a more terrible place when it came to artificial intelligence. Okay. But it seems like that was kind of accidental, right? Well, it's all accidental, right? It feels like the common theme with Apple is that they're lucking out a lot. Yeah. Okay. But would we expect that? They would say that's strategy, but I don't think so. But do we have a sense of what they actually want to achieve in AI? Like, or are they just going to experiment with some stuff and maybe it'll stick, maybe it won't, maybe it'll be useful 10 years later?

28:26You know, monetizing AI, you know, the jury is still out on how exactly you do that. I mean, you see the amount of money that OpenAI is making versus how much they're losing. It's not entirely clear yet. But I think Apple has a proven business model. It is hardware with very high margins, right? And we can talk about that with the price hikes later. But Apple wants to roll out AI hardware products, AirPods with cameras, pendant with cameras, smart glasses. AirPods with cameras? AirPods, a pendant, smart glasses.

28:55Tracy Alloway:Is that like a thing you'd put out like kind of a necklace? A necklace or put on your pocket here. Eyes and ears for your phone. AI cloud processing in order to feed context into your phone and your iCloud account to do AI tasks. Those are going to sell and those are going to make money. And so Apple has a proven business model there. The other thing is they have this new Siri AI, and what they've done is they took their artificial intelligence models. Those are called AFM or Apple Foundation models. That whole team just basically got blown up over the last year. A bunch of them went to Meta for$50 million packages.

29:29A bunch of them went to Google, Anthropic, Microsoft, you name it. So Apple opened up the hood of their models. They're paying billions of dollars to Google to have redeveloped the underpinnings of their models. And so now Siri, now Siri is competent.

29:44Tracy Alloway:Wait, wait. So this is, I mean, this is one of the ironies is that Apple was truly one of the pioneers in talking to computers in plain language. Well, they launched Siri. Yeah, they launched Siri. They launched Siri in 2011. And I was on another show here the other day and the host was telling me that he asked Siri, he's got the old Siri still, when is the next Fed meeting? I know you guys like talking about that. And Siri's response was, there are no Fed meetings in your calendar. Okay. I have the new Siri AI, and so I said, when's the next Fed meeting? The next Fed meeting gave me the date.

30:16Wait, so, sorry, what powers Siri AI's intelligence? Today, it's Apple Foundation models that have been rebuilt with Google underpinnings. It's Gemini. Okay. Okay.

30:28Tracy Alloway:Got it. Okay, so going forward, is the idea that Siri will just be a Gemini skin, as they would say? Like, is that a sense? It's more than... Just from the language, sort of the way we all talk about AI today is like a model, whatever this thing you talk to. Yeah, it's like a re-skinned Gemini that has access to your personal data. So you can ask it about your text messages, your photos, your emails. It's actually pretty nifty. You know, one thing I've been doing, people send me calendar appointments on like my work computer. I take a picture of my work screen with the phone and then it just adds it to my calendar through Siri.

31:03Oh, that's pretty nice. So, you know, how many people have that use case? I don't know. But it does work. it's extremely competent i would say you guys know video editing software okay you know iMovie yeah okay so there's like iMovie versus Final Cut Pro yeah yeah all right so before Siri AI Apple had nothing now they've got iMovie ChatGPT's Final Cut Pro got it they've got a competent product that 95 % of the world can use but they don't got that step which allows you to do hardcore research, documents, drafting, editing, etc., travel planning, everything you want to use ChatGPT for, and do all of it.

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33:57Oh, that's actually really simple. Safe balance banking. One less thing to figure out. Learn more at bfa.com slash earn100. Terms and conditions apply. Bank of America and a member FDIC. Well, let's talk about the price hikes because this was a pretty big sea change both for Apple, the company, and I guess in a macroeconomic sense, right? Right. So we're told that the increases are because of memory shortages and component shortages and competing with the hyperscalers for all these things. How much of that is true? 95 % of it. Okay. I think that the other component of this, speaking of components, is that inflation, real thing over the last, you know, five, seven years, Apple product prices really have not increased over that time as other components got expensive and as, you know, inflation has gone up.

34:44And so I'm not one of those people who think this is a conspiracy theory to finally, you know, raise prices and blame memory. Memory is a real thing. If you look at the price adjustments that they've made, it is entirely in line with how much more they're paying for memory on a product by product basis. For instance, the Vision Pro went up by$200, right? Six percent. Nobody's buying the Vision Pro. They're not going to do anything to lose one percent of their margin. And so they probably set a date on the calendar several months ago and they said, we're going to use our cash balance or whatever.

35:15We're going to use our margins to eat the additional cost of memory up until this date. The date hit, they flipped the switch, they did the price hikes. And you'll see them do more price hikes in September for these new phones.

35:26Tracy Alloway:It just occurs to me, it's on the AI component. It's like you see these huge budgets that the Alphabets and the Amazons and the Microsofts of the world are spending. If there's one company that knows about, why don't we let someone else do the big capital expenditures? It's Apple. That's what they're doing. But their core history from partnering with Foxconn is essentially, you know, there's this really expensive aspect of the process where it's very physical. Let's just get another company to do the really high capital expenditure part. You're spot on. It's straight out of that playbook. But AI is pretty darn fundamental.

36:05And I think eventually they're going to have to rebuild that AI research team and spend the money to rebuild AI. Now I'm saying you can do it without those hyperscaler expenses. Apple never wanted this. Apple's vision for AI, and they talked about this two years ago, was on-device model processing. It was about using Apple Mac chips in the cloud, not this whole hyperscaler situation with NVIDIA that you're seeing from OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, you name it. And so the irony here is that this is not a world that Apple was trying to push. They want it all on the phone. And I think eventually these LLMs are going to to be able to shrink to the point where you can put them on the phone.

36:40But for right now, cloud is the game in town to make better artificial intelligence. Do they have other options for getting chips and components? I know they've been trying to source out of China, for instance. So they are testing memory from CXMT and YMTC. Those are two Chinese memory providers. There's actually, you can count on your fingers, that's the number of memory suppliers there are in the world. There's about five, right? You've got Micron, SK Hynix, Samsung, and the two Chinese companies I named. They already used the other three, the Korean one and the American ones. They're going to do this.

37:14I'm convinced that they're going to start using Chinese memory instead of Chinese iPhone SKUs. Apple already has a unique SKU for China. So being able to add the Chinese memory into that and carve that out, I think is not that big of a lift from an operational standpoint. The bigger issue for them will be the PR campaigns for Micron and Korea, trying to make Apple look bad for using Chinese memory. If you're using Chinese memory in Chinese phones, I think people in China know the deal there. I'm not really sure why it's the problem of any other country.

37:42Tracy Alloway:If Siri is re-skinned Gemini... It's a little bit more than that. Does that create issues for China in terms of using Siri in China? And are they going to have to use DeepSeek or something like that for the Chinese to use? How are they handling that? Okay. And this is actually a timely question because earlier this week, after a two-year delay, Apple finally got Chinese government approval to launch Siri in China. Now we're talking about the old school Siri, not the new Siri AI, but here's what they've done. So there's basically two components to Siri that you can break down. You've got the Apple models, and then you have integration with Google and you have integration with OpenAI.

38:21That's the situation in the United States. And so in China, you've got Apple models and then the outside partner is Baidu. They're the big Google equivalent for search. And so that makes sense to have them. instead of OpenAI in China, which both don't work in the region. But there's also one other player. It's a company you may have heard of called Alibaba. And so what Apple's doing with Alibaba is they've got Alibaba models in the system, and it serves as what I call a censorship engine. And this censorship engine is constantly calling back between Apple and the Chinese government, getting Chinese government approval on updates to the models on the phone.

39:02Yeah, because the censorship announcements get updated really, really quickly, right? And keywords are now problematic that weren't five minutes ago.

39:11Tracy Alloway:But that model from Alibaba is essentially a way of keeping the Baidu model in check. And the Apple model. Okay. And the Apple model. But yes, that is what Alibaba is there to do is a censorship engine. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. It's models on top of models. Yeah. Models all the way down. Well, that's the ultimate vision for Apple Intelligence and for Siri is to make the model interchangeable. Now, we haven't even talked about this big war between Apple and OpenAI. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I know. But the phone, as you know, it has ChatGPT baked in as a Siri extension. Basically, if you ask Siri something that Siri doesn't know the answer to, it'll fall back to ChatGPT and grab the answer from there.

39:55With the new Siri AI, it's going to know the answer to basically everything you ask. you don't really need chat gpt these current ios 27 betas have chat gpt still as part of that system but the ultimate goal and i think this is going to happen more quickly because of the lawsuit apple's going to pull the chat gpt exclusivity in my opinion and they're going to allow you to install any third-party lm onto your phone to use through siri interesting wait okay Okay, talk to us about the lawsuit because this seems dramatic. Two years ago, three years ago, a dude named Tank Tan, vice president of iPhone product design, Apple Watch product design, AirPods, acoustics, accessories, all sorts of stuff.

40:41One of the most senior executives at Apple and by all accounts, the number two under John Ternus and the hardware engineering organization comes to Ternus, comes to Apple and he says, I'm out of here. I'm going with startup. This is early December of 23. They're like, okay, well, you have your tentacles tied up in so many different areas. You can't leave immediately. So they're like, okay, stick around until February. So he sticks around until February, but in behind the scenes, he's already cooking up a new AI devices company with Johnny Ive, the former Apple design chief, and Sam Altman runs open AI, obviously at the time still does.

41:17And their whole goal is to create a new range of devices that will destroy the iPhone, combining the engineering and design prowess of some of the best people who used to work at Apple with what at the time was widely considered the best AI, lethal combo. And Tang Tan has been hiring over the last year, two years, an exceptional number of people from Apple. They've pillaged Apple's hardware engineering ranks. They have 400 former Apple employees in their hardware division at OpenAI right now. My guess is that's between 5 % and 8 % of the total OpenAI employee pool is a former Apple employee. Kind of nuts.

41:54Okay. Apple has been beside itself for two years about this. The hiring, the poaching, the fact that they're trying to compete with them using their best former people. Nothing you could really do about it. Reversed the beginning of this year, Apple finally had what they think is a smoking gun, an engineer named Chang Liu. He allegedly breaks into Apple servers and steals engineering presentations and such and gives them to OpenAI. And so Apple begins building a big case against Chang Liu and Tang Tan, who they allege was bringing Apple employees into OpenAI offices with prospective job offers and asking them to bring in Apple prototypes and other internal Apple equipment to give them a look at what's coming down the road.

42:33What's OpenAI's defense here? Because when you read the complaint, it seems pretty bad. Here's my take. Overall, the complaint is very thin. Really? Very thin. the stuff about Tang Tan very thin a lot of that is common practice in Silicon Valley for recruiting and meetings with employees that they've drummed up into a Netflix special that's my take the Chang Lu stuff if true is extremely serious and he's in trouble and that's a big problem so that is the delineation there in my head in terms of the recruiting and pillaging Apple's hardware engineering ranks I don't know how kosher that is I'm sure there was some you know funky stuff going on that strikes me as

43:13Tracy Alloway:It's just business in California. It's business in California. But we'll see where this lands. But the one thing I'll say is if you read the Apple complaint, they say so many times in that complaint, we need to do discovery to know what's going on. This is a good segue to like the new form factors that we might expect for gadgets. And the Google glasses like 15 years ago and people hated them. People still hate them. My old colleague at Business Insider, he like got beaten up or like got physically. Yeah, remember that story in California? Because someone wanted to steal them? No, he was wearing the Google Glasses and people found it, you know, is just like very upset about it.

43:52People really hate them. Yeah, because of the recording.

43:54Tracy Alloway:Yeah, everything. Well, Apple has a high bar to cross there because their next big thing is glasses. So this is what I'm getting at. And there's a lot of interest in this. And we know that Meta obviously is like really pushing on this hard, etc. etc. Setting aside like market demand for some of these new form factors, it feels to me like we are very close to crossing a deeply uncomfortable cultural threshold. Yes. With all of this stuff. Yes. Where it's like people do not want, you know, if you had a little pendant on in your pocket. You mean my body cam? Yeah, your body cam, like right now recording this.

44:31Tracy Alloway:And it's like, oh, Well, yeah, I have the, like, people would be very uneasy, to say the least. There's a high bar. So when we think about the range of, like, quote, AI gadgets, setting aside even pure market demand, are we going to be in this era where, like, we're really going to have to, like, have some serious cultural fights about what's acceptable for people to have on their person at any given time? I walked into a family member's house a couple weeks ago. I got the new metaglasses for review and they were very upset that I walked in with the metaglasses thinking that I'm recording them, right?

45:11And how are they supposed to know? I could be recording them. I wasn't. I assured them of such. But people like jailbreak the light. Yes, it's uncomfortable. You know, there are people who, yeah, use a black Sharpie to cut out the light and all sorts of stuff.

45:24Tracy Alloway:And someone will sell a phone from China that doesn't have any light or any outward indicia of it being looking... Like, they will look... There's no doubt that in the short term, there will be glasses that are absolutely indistinguishable from normal glasses. Yes, and then Metta's talking about what they call the SuperSense glasses right now, which are recording at all times versus the current ones where they record as you snap or ask it to record. Yeah. I don't know... This is coming for sure. From Apple? No, from all... There are going to be a lot of these products that are going to be recording a lot And we will not know, we will have no idea who is recording what's going on.

46:01Well, you know, Amazon's got new ones coming. Apple's got new ones coming or their first one's coming. Google is working on this. Samsung is about to launch theirs. Everyone's doing this. And so, you know, Meta has a lot of privacy baggage and they've sort of, you know, soiled the market for Apple and these other players ahead of time by making people uncomfortable with this stuff. And I think Meta gets a little bit too hard of a time, right? I think people go a little bit harder on Meta than they should. But there are serious privacy questions that are being raised here. Serious privacy questions that are being raised here.

46:33And it's going to be a very high bar for Apple to meet this moment and get people using these things despite those concerns. All right. Well, other than the glasses that everyone seems to hate, talk to us about what we should actually be saving up our money for, I guess, in terms of new product launches. Yeah. Well, this foldable phone, the Ultra, is going to be really fantastic. Open it up. It's like an iPad mini. Pretty excited about it. And it's not going to be as durable or priced as well as a pro phone or one of the low-end phones. But I think it's going to be pretty exciting. The AirPods, the pendant, the smart glasses are going to be very exciting.

47:07The smart home. So they're coming in with three different smart home products. One is an in-home security camera system tied to a new Apple security system. I think they want to compete in some fashion with ADT or some of the home security companies. Interesting. There's a landmark smart home device, which you can put on your desk, put on your wall, and you can walk up to it and it'll know who it is. It'll basically bring Siri AI to life, pull up your music, you can do video conferencing, you can do apps, smart home appliances, et cetera. It's like a smart home command center. And then there's another device.

47:38It's a robotic version. So the one I just described has a seven inch screen and there's a nine inch screen version and it's gonna be on a robotic arm so it can move around on your desk. So you can look at it, you can point it to look at people on a video conference. It's kind of nifty. I don't know how well that's gonna do, But you know what? They're trying things at least. And then tons of new Macs, new MacBook Neos, new iMacs. Augmented reality glasses is the biggie. Probably end of decade, early next decade. Taking the glasses, but being able to give you information.

48:11Tracy Alloway:Yeah, I was going to say, so people were talking about AR 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and hadn't taken off. What is going to be different that it's like, okay, now people actually like AR and find use for it? It's the visual fidelity. Okay. It's the quality. Have you used the Vision Pro? No. Okay. So if you use the Vision Pro, I would encourage you to borrow mine or you can go to an Apple store. The visual quality is amazing. It's the best movie watching experience. Once your eyes see that quality. Oh, these are the big headsets. Yeah. Yeah, I saw someone say recently they watched Citizen Kane on their Vision Pro and they said it was amazing.

48:48Yeah, it's amazing. Anyways.

48:50Tracy Alloway:It's a better experience than watching a big screen TV on your couch. If you don't have a family. Yeah, I find something so dystopian about like two people sitting on a couch with their glasses on. And they have marketing around that. And they're trying to make two people wearing a Vision Pro have better interactivity. I think it's crazy. I guess you can hold hands while you do it. But long story short, the glasses of 10 years ago and even today, the AR glasses, the visual quality is garbage, right? You can hardly see what's going on. Apple, their goal is to make a leapfrog AR product. They're not going to get anywhere near the Vision Pro quality, but they're going to get to a high quality place.

49:27Tracy Alloway:Okay, so the next three years. Anything else? So it's like foldable phones, Vision Pro. So we'll start off with the foldable phone and the 18 Pro and Pro Max this fall. You're going to get a new OLED iPad mini. I was going to ask, no one even cares about the new iPad mini. It doesn't get mentioned until now. That's what I'm excited about as an Apple Luddite. I wrote a story about it today. So you're going to get a new OLED display. So same visual clarity that you get on an iPhone. The current iPad mini is stuck on an old LCD. Next year, you're going to get some of the wearables. So you're going to get that foldable phone 2 actually in the fall.

50:00But you're also going to get the AirPods with cameras. And you're going to get the smart glasses. And then the other big one next year is the 20th anniversary iPhone. the iPhone 20 or the iPhone XX, whatever you want to call it. And that is going to be an all glass phone that meshes well with the liquid glass, the new software they rolled out last year and updated this year. The year after that, you're going to get things like the tabletop robot. I talked about the smart home appliances and what have you. So it's a big next three years for Apple and augmented reality glasses behind that. They've been playing with this big tablet, foldable tablet foldable ipad with a 20 inch screen and then that main smart home device i talked about the smart home hub that'll be in the next few months so that's an exciting one

50:44Tracy Alloway:mark german thank you so much for coming on odd lots that was great i learned quite a bit good thanks for having me this was awesome

51:02Tracy Alloway:so tracy i thought that was very interesting i needed that catch up on this company that once like occupied a little bit of my mind share and now i hardly ever think at all i do think it's interesting like as a starting point for all of the like they're not the best phones in the world especially when you bring China into it, they've been stumbling on AI for over a decade, that it's like the one big tech stock that right now today, July 16th, is at an all-time high. Well, I thought it's interesting. I mean, to some extent, you can say, okay, they missed the boat on AI. But on the other hand, they've sort of stuck true to their ethos as a product company that often, I don't want to say leeches off the technology of others, but it's very good about sourcing tech from other companies, right?

51:48Tracy Alloway:Right. I would say, you know, Mark described it's a product company, right? But the other thing is it's a supply chain integration story. Obviously, that was like, that's what Tim Cook's expertise was, etc. You know, there's an interesting episode we did. I remember with Sam D 'Amico, the Impulse Labs. Yeah, he was talking about it. And he said that term, and I guess it's actually originally an Elon term, which is that the factory is the product, right? Which is really interesting. And so you're just like, why have they been this unified experience that combines really good hardware with really good software?

52:25Tracy Alloway:The product is their ability to integrate. And it's not like that's what they're good at. That's their thing. They can integrate many different things better than anyone else. And then people really like the product. Yeah. But then on the other hand, I guess the question is if something like a camera, if the edge on a camera now comes from AI versus like the actual hardware components, then are you going to get a big AI company, a hyperscaler that starts, you know, becoming a product company? Or you just have like one of these Chinese companies where AI is like one random thing they do. And even that is 10 times better than the, you know what I'm saying?

53:01Tracy Alloway:And so I do think like pretty clearly from a pure product standpoint, there is probably a limit to your point of like how far they'll go if their core technology is just not frontier. It's so crazy to me that, like, there are years ahead of everyone else in terms of conceiving of talking to your computer with your voice, and then they just, like, completely drop the ball on that. Well, I do also think the other thing, you know, we talked about their ability to entice buyers for these new products. And a lot of the stuff, it sounds cool. A robotic arm that sits on your desk and points at people, I guess.

53:39But on the other hand, like, How much of it do people actually need? How much is it going to cost given that, as we were discussing, memory and components are in short supply at the moment? I don't know.

53:52Tracy Alloway:I also think, who knows, I guess part of it may be, you know, other companies are all going to build similar gadgets, etc. Like, again, the iPhone bringing together this entire ecosystem, like, what are the, I just like, I don't know, I guess the flip side is like, we don't care at all anymore about what iOS we're on, etc. And it hasn't hurt the company. Well, I was going to say one question we should have asked Mark and I forgot, but how much of a moat is iOS now actually? Because people will say like, oh, I don't want a non-iOS phone. But on the other hand, you don't know what iOS you're on.

54:26Tracy Alloway:No. All I know is that if I didn't have one, all my friends would make fun of me for being green text in the group chats. That's the important thing. Who's the Android person that's making the group text show up in green chat? Expose yourself. And so I don't want to be that person. All right. Shall we leave it there? Let's leave it there. This has been another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway. And I'm Joe Weisenthal. You can follow me at The Stalwart. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Armand, Dash O 'Bennett at Dashbot, Kale Brooks at Kale Brooks, and Kevin Lozano at Kevin Lloyd Lozano.

55:01Tracy Alloway:And for more Odd Lots content, go to Bloomberg.com slash Odd Lots. We have a daily newsletter and all of our episodes, and you can chat about all these topics 24-7 in our Discord, discord.gg slash Odd Lots. And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you like it when we provide you with Apple updates, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad-free. All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.

55:42Thank you.

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56:58Tracy Alloway:Only$9.99? Yeah, that sounds like the move. I'm heading straight to Domino's. Price is higher for some locations. Excludes Excel and Specialty Pizzas. Select this offer from$6.15 through$7.26. Online only. Size availability varies by crust height. Max 7 toppings, 6 for man and New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery. Prices, participation, delivery area, and charges may vary.

57:21Tracy Alloway:M &M's Popped Caramel do sound different. Oh no, people are going to be obsessed. What do you mean? Hmm, people hate the sound of chewing. Maybe they won't like the crunch. Maybe we're saved. Wait a minute. Yellow. Huh? Have you been eating them this whole time? Mmm, so tasty. Hands off us. M &M's Popped Caramel. It's more fun together.