Anna Williamson Talks Celebs Go Dating, Anxiety & Escaping an Abusive Relationship!

31:35I look back now at that early footage. I was shit. Absolutely dreadful. But he must have seen something in me. God loves a trier. And I got a job on that show and then as they say, then 10 years, 10 years then of kids telly, I went through every single TV, kids telly network from ITV to Channel 5, Sky, Nickelodeon, Disney Channel and I presented all the flagship shows on all of them.

32:02Olivia Attwood:It's incredible. and like you say you would that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't been like kicking down that door it wasn't going to land in your lap you were the one that's like this is what I want to do and I'm going to keep showing up I'm going to keep putting my face in front of you until you give me a chance activity breeds activity and one of the biggest things I kick back with with people who people are very quick they might be listening to this and going oh let me go roast into your glasses alright for you that's why I always go back and look at someone you know where someone's head space is and someone's mindset is I've got good friends of mine that are in shitty jobs, hating life, hating what they're doing.

32:36And when I say, change your job, oh, it's easy for you to say I can't do that. And I'm like, look, okay, cause and effect. You know, there's always a cost for something. But I'm like, but if you really are unhappy in that job, have a think about what steps you need to do in order to change that, you know, where you want to go with it. Because there are always options out there. No one's saying it's easy. No one's saying everybody has a, you know, of course it's not. There are some very, very difficult decisions for some people. But I think being stuck, but I think for me, it's mindset is everything.

33:07Yes.

33:08Olivia Attwood:I love it. On such a positive note, I hate to do such a gear change. Take it down. Let's talk trauma. Yeah. And I think we have to touch here because I think it brings us to how you've combined your two loves and your two passions now. But at that time, you were riding high, like you say, a decade of kids TV. But some of that time was darkened with a pretty horrendous relationship. yeah how how sort of long into that journey did that relationship start it was sort of halfway through my kids telly career i was so i went to kids tell it 17 18 um and i sort of came out of kids telly just through natural sort of evolution in my early 30s so it was in my mid-20s so i was pretty well established within the kids telly you know arena i was earning good money i owned my i bought my first flat in central london you know this was like i was i was living my best life really good place and I think often well I know this but I didn't know this at the time often those that are so open and so secure well actually maybe I wasn't maybe I was more anxious thinking back now never really thought of it like that uh can be a hot target for somebody that has perhaps um not the same ideas and I yeah I was in a relationship um with somebody who pursued me who I thought was very attractive, very keen.

34:31I was flattered. I got love bombed. Didn't know what love bombing was then. No one talked about that. And I ended up in a relationship that unfortunately turned out to be very controlling, psychologically abusive, and was life-changing in that I found myself in my early 20s having a spectacular mental breakdown.

34:53Olivia Attwood:Like spectacular to the point of, I've been as low as low can be I've I've been as low as I dare to think anyone gets to that point and I think that's really many years after that what pivoted me to having a real passion I guess for not letting anybody feel that shite ever again and also shining a spotlight on relationships and what goes on behind the scenes and I think I'd never had any experience of what I would consider abusive relationships or dysfunctional my parents have happily married 55 years um i've got i'm very very fortunate this is not the norm but i am very fortunate i have very healthy relationships around me so i'd never that point then you didn't know what you what to look out for so these the behavior it when did it when was there a point when you were like this isn't normal or would he be so good at kind of flipping the script that you were convinced it was normal yeah i think i think we know we often talk about gaslighting you know changing and the words thrown around a lot now yes yeah but like in your in the in the in the definition of the word it's someone basically telling you what you know to be true isn't right changing your perception of it and making you question yourself it's question questioning your reality to the point you then believe it and what that does it's a very powerful form of abuse because you when the minute you start to question yourself you're then chipping away at your self-esteem and your self-confidence and if you don't have that yourself you are very vulnerable indeed if you don't know who you are and if you don't know what your boundaries are you are leaving yourself wide open to be exploited manipulated and abused which is where I found myself unwillingly and unknowingly and I think to answer your question I had no idea I knew it this is why we talk about a lot about gut instinct you know head heart and gut the gut is always correct is that is instinctively neurologically that is uh that is tuned in and often as human beings we we know it's there and then we go against it but if we really allow that instinctive uh feeling to kick in and to follow that we're right and i i should have had that gut instinct um when i first met him because the pursuer was pursuing and all of the but i guess i was glad that as in you mean so it is could that potentially be a red flag for someone listening to you to this when you say pursue is that the beyond the point of like the chase are we talking like like relentless and what what would you say is a red flag in a pursuit situation i guess moving faster than you feel comfortable with okay um and when you are asking for them to slow up and the pursue is still intense got you um it's very nuanced but for me I did really like him I find him very exciting you know I hadn't been with someone quite this exciting and you know don't I'm a bit of a ballsy girl so I'm quite you know and also I've I've I've grown up with with guys you know I can I can take the banter you know I'm good friends with people in your life you know I can I can I can I can take the piece hard yeah and I am really offended as well like I can I can be in the gutter yeah with with the best of them but i also like the chase you know and i like the excitement as well yeah and he and he posed as that and i think it was that danger slightly of like oh he's a bit spicy but he was very um keen and then moved very quickly from wanting to uh move things very quickly you know i say my pride and joy my bridget jones flat uh you know wanted to suddenly his flat wasn't available for him anymore and oh could i stay with you for a bit and then didn't leave and uh it So they get their feet under the rug literally and metaphorically.

38:44And then started, you know, praising me for being so beautiful and sexy and this and that. Oh, my God. And then suddenly, this is what to look out for. Then suddenly, after a while, that just starts to flip with a, are you wearing that out? It's a bit low, a bit low-cut top. But because you have been in this bubble of, he adores me, he adores me, he adores me, the oftocin's flowing. Oh. You've disappointed him. oh disappointed oh do you think it's a bit i think it's a bit low cut babe i think you need to change that and then and that that is when it starts to to move and i and i noticed that and there were a few um you know work parties and things and i'd come back from work parties having really enjoyed myself and being really transparent really open because that's the kind of person i am uh was still am and then that was manipulated against me you know i must have been a slut you know for talking to people and then you find yourself defending no no of course i wasn't no no

39:41Olivia Attwood:well actually you shouldn't even entertain that kind of interaction now you'd go get out yeah yeah yeah but exactly that and you start to question yourself oh but if you did give them did you give anyone a number let me look at your phone no well if you won't let me look at your phone you must be hiding something yeah okay look at all of that hell no and if anyone's listening to this and you're in this please run please trust get trust in someone that you know and run get out of that relationship nobody should be ever crossing those boundaries i know you know that live but i didn't know that i was wide open and when i knew instinctively i knew it was wrong and there was also uh you know i i'm very close to my family and another classic uh tactic is to remove the loved ones you know the close friends try to isolate you right and that that happened too a hard question to ask and i don't know if it's the one you can and i guess all kind of coercive control situations are different do you think he knew what he was doing do you think people that operate that are intensively great question cruel and evil or do you think it's just the way they're wired and they're moving through the world causing pain they don't do you know what i'm asking no i do i think because i always think that's fascinating I think it's an excellent question, actually.

40:56I think this was, I later found out, this was habitual. I was not the first. So he had a pattern of this. This was a pattern, yeah, which I didn't know at the time. No. But there was a pattern of this. But I also believe that he believed that he was a victim in life.

41:14Olivia Attwood:Right. Oh, God. Professional victims are some of the most dangerous people I've ever met. Professional victims. They are. Yeah. yeah it's a very dangerous person to get into a friendship with or relationship big time big time um and that i think there's somewhere in the middle ground of that question if i'm perfectly honest with you but for sure it was a very very very dysfunctional relationship and that's where um and i think a lot of where where my panic attack started and when i've very well publicized that's kind of what turned my career really um you reference a meltdown day that was the day it Was it like the day when it kind of, you snapped basically?

41:53Basically, yeah. I think I'd been peddling for about six months at this point, for six months. Yeah. I was hosting Saturday morning TV, you know. It was a job of my dreams. So you were going through shit at home, but then you had to come in and fucking game face and, yeah. And at the worst point, I was, yeah, I'd even moved myself out of, I was going back home to my parents. and I think this is this is what felt so just so just just oh I don't even know what the feeling was all kinds of emotions that I at this point was getting into bed with my parents and the I was a BAFTA nominated TV presenter on Saturday morning telly and you think what if people knew behind the scenes this smiley happy girl that's throwing custard pies around and gunge tanks in the morning is actually in her parents bed crying because I can't sleep I'm riddled with anxiety i don't know who i am i don't know how to name it i don't know what to do um and essentially i wasn't sleeping so i mean the panic disorder my mental health was in the absolute pits yeah and you know i've always you know the analogy being it was like a car engine you know that will call petrol tank that it reached needs to be filled up now it's on beat it's beeping it's beeping if you don't refuel now the whole car is going to just stop on the m25 well that didn't just stop the m25 it burst into flames basically uh because i hadn't and this is we talk a lot about mental health I hadn't figured I hadn't recognized the warning signs I hadn't I hadn't I didn't know no one had taught me that's why I talk so much about it teaching people now but essentially meltdown day as I affectionately call it probably was the worst best day of my life in a weird way because it was the day everything changed for the worse and for the better and I went into work I was it was back in the days of GMTV and I don't know if you ever went into the old Studio 5 which

43:36Olivia Attwood:was on the South Bank Studios oh is that in the old tower building yeah I did actually when I first came off love island i think just a year before they ripped it down yeah you would have been it would have been around that time uh best days ever those were brilliant days early 90s sorry early early noughties we were there um and i remember going in and you had this thing where i'll always remember it's like a movie in my head going up in the lift there was this lift from the scene doc uh where they used to do saturday night takeaway and everything and it would take you up into the gmtv studios and we used to share the same studio as lorraine um so lorraine would come off our set would then go in and we'd we'd shoot our show and so you know how you know it's like high of activity and I remember the lift going up and it was a dark car journey in and I hadn't slept I was I was done and I was having to also learn a lot of script as well like that you know the job is is the job and also you know there's lots of other people out there that desperate to have that job as well you know and I loved it and you get reminded of that a lot all the time well exactly and you'll also understand this being in telly it was the important autumn quarter that people in telly talk about which is where you know bums on seats it's the key advertising period so i.e everyone cancels holiday for the autumn quarter it's where everyone makes their money so not a time where you can ask for some days and yeah exactly exactly that so i felt that pressure within myself to be fair more than anything didn't want to you know people pleaser didn't want to let everyone down didn't also you know didn't want to not be on my own show i remember that lift going up onto the fifth floor um the doors opened and i remember just seeing this time of activity and just it felt like I was swimming um and then it was a colleague of mine who'd recently been off with depression actually just looked at me she must have seen takes one to no one looked at me and she was like are you okay Anna and I remember just looking at her and just it was like game over the master hit a wall hit a wall and I burst into tears I don't remember too much of it really after that I remember going into my dressing room and it was on the same corridor as all the other presenters on you know GMTV presenters and I remember my co-presenter at time jamie he was he was he was lovely and he was like what's wrong and i was like i just can't i just can't do it i can't remember really what i said but i was in floods of tears just you know those gulping hyperventilating tears i said i just can't do it i just can't do it he was great was like shit i'll go and get someone and then fiona phillips um i know i love fiona um and lorraine kelly you know they'd just come off air and we all shared a corridor and i remember they came in and you know you're eight petal you know what's wrong and i remember fiona just being so kind and concerned and you know crouching down next to me holding my hands and you know what is it what is it darling I think I did actually say to her it's I'm not happy or I can't remember what I said but whatever I said I got Addy lead out of there you know as you do and um uh and you know it was it was a real turning point for me you know and I remember sort of being buffed back to my parents who I just left and then I always remember this like it was like four hours of me sitting on my parents couch just crying just letting all that emotion out my mum hoovering around me you know Just like sort of carrying on.

46:33But that was really the start of it. And then I remember, you know, no one really talked about mental health then. No, no. That would be like a big dirty secret still there at that point. No, so different. No one knew what to do. In fact, actually, the only person that was recommended to me through ITV, who I'm working with, was the staff counsellor at ITV at the time was Graham, who was the counsellor on the Jeremy Kyle show.

46:55Olivia Attwood:No, I'm dead. Graham. Graham with the glasses. Oh, my God. Right. That's such a throwback. such a sliver I know so I had a phone call with Graham didn't I after Jeremy Carl show behind the scenes which was he was very lovely yeah and he said you know it sounds like you got burnout or whatever and then to be honest I was very fortunate my mum who'd worked in healthcare for years and years and years just happened to work in the same department as a medical secretary as another secretary friend of hers who was the secretary to a brilliant mental psychiatrist well psychiatrist mental psychiatrist a psychiatrist who specialised in anxiety disorders and assuming that's what was wrong with me, I went to see him and that for me was game-changing.

47:39Walking into his room, this absolute highly strung mess and him, but for me, for him labelling it for what it was, was you've basically had a mental breakdown and I'm going to make you better. And I was like, am I not insane? And he was like, nope, you've just had a really bad time. Oh my gosh. I've lived through something very similar. Have you? Have you? Yeah. How long ago?

48:02Olivia Attwood:The first time I have spoke about this, it's funny, I was about 21, it was pre-Love Island, it was when I got my ADHD diagnosis, and I'd had a big breakup, big horrible breakup, and I was living on my own, and I went home. And I moved out when I was 18, and I hadn't been home since, and I went home to my parents, and I was, yeah, I wasn't sleeping, I was having nightmares, there was so much going on. and I went in and I had a psychiatrist. My mum got me in front of a psychiatrist and I had an hour with her. And there was two things happening at the same time. But at the end of that hour, she said, has anyone spoken to you about ADHD?

48:48Olivia Attwood:And I just thought, I remember feeling so like, because my understanding of ADHD at that time was so minimal. And do you know what? As a child, I've been described as hyperactive. And that was always the feedback from school. she can't sit still, she can't do this, she does this, impulsivity. Digit arse. But no one, with women and girls, no one was really diagnosing us with neurodiversities at all. No. And also, I didn't, you know, I remember I was assessed by a school, I forget what they call them now, you know, like behaviour, like who decides if you have dyslexia or whatever. Yes, yes. I also, I'm such a contradiction even now as an adult because I didn't fit into enough boxes because I was meticulously organised.

49:26Olivia Attwood:Right. But it's almost to the point I'm quite obsessive. So I... And they didn't say ADHD, no? So, the what? Autistic. There's no autism on it. No, it was just like, she's just hyperactive. Like, she's eating less sugar and whatever. Right, right. So, yeah, all my pencil case, my things were tied. So, yeah, it's like, it can't be that because she doesn't... Anyway, so when I was 21, I was the same situation. I was crying constantly. It was such a mess. My anxiety was... Like, you know, my panic attacks that took me to A &E, like several times because I was so convinced I was dying that's very common you know yeah because no one now I think this there was you know we watch these tiktoks and the what the younger generation are growing up with is there's so much bad online but I see things described from you know mental health content creators I think god I like I would have killed to hear something like this when I was 16 because no one was talking about it so I was my mum did she I think was sure I was having a panic attack but I was like you're wrong you are right I can't breathe I can't see i might you know everything so and no one can no one can ever describe how terrifying you're you're convinced it's and you and what's more scary is when you feel like the people around you don't believe look like they're going you're you're okay well it actually compounds you don't know you don't know like it's it's terrifying terrifying having panic disorder is which is what i was diagnosed with is absolutely i'm so sorry that you went through that too and i um so I went through that and then went there and she said ADHD and I remember I just thought like that's I came here for someone to like fix me and because I thought that's got nothing to do with this like I thought ADHD was like you have it at school or like it means that you know it falls into a category like dyslexia like how's that gonna and then she's like no hold on she's like because this is key because this the fact that it's unmanaged or untreated is the chicken and the egg situation so yes you've had a horrible breakup yes you're a very anxious person but But it's all exasperated by the fact that the ADHD is so there.

51:24Olivia Attwood:And the way you're living your life, you're doing everything to make it worse, not better. So anyway, that was a big moment. And then... Did it help understanding yourself more? It's like a light went on in the room. And then she gave me material to take away to read. And it was like big, like, little black A4 piece of paper. And I was like, oh God. And I remember like, I picked up a few days. I started like scrolling through it and I was like reading. and it was like reading about myself yeah and i was like it was the most like a liberating experience of my life and isn't that interesting because a lot because a lot of people yeah yeah this is it and i think a lot of people some people really hate labels um but for me um i find them well for me personally very cathartic yeah and i think it's how you interpret um a label or a diagnosis and i think there is a lot of talk now people over diagnosing or quick to diagnose and god forbid we'll diagnose each other ourselves but actually i think when we do have that label or diagnosis it gives us an opportunity to understand it's not an excuse but it is a reason and i think it sounds like you had the same as i had when i went into that session and i had a professional opposite me saying basically telling me what was wrong with me saying you have gad generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder and when he'd unpacked what was going on these are the reasons why it all made sense and as you say for the him and i actually remember the the i had felt so lonely with with those feelings and those emotions genuinely feeling like i was insane yeah and then when you have someone opposite you saying almost like you're not so special like you're like one of like thousands hundreds of thousands of people that are going through this and here's why because you've been going through a really crap time and you've also not learned how to cope you know and and understand yourself i found it really comforting because i remember saying what will i will i feel better and he's like for sure you will you don't feel so alone you don't feel so alone and it was it was and that's when i realized and say we didn't do therapy i mean who did therapy you know now it's therapy was a dirty word i did not like my mom was like you're gonna go and see a psychiatrist and like thank god she did i did not tell anyone like i was so embarrassed of that like and when i got my adhd diagnosis back But then, I did not, when I was on Love Island, I did not breathe a fucking, like, I think there's been a big shift in the last two or three years around, especially on ADD and ADHD.

53:50Olivia Attwood:I did not mention that shit. Like, I felt like I was, I felt comfort in knowing why I was the way I was. But it wasn't something I'd ever wear as a badge of honor, you know, like. Because it's been stigmatized. And it's the same with mental health. And I think. Especially as a woman. As a woman as well. I felt quite embarrassed by that label of like, you think of ADHD, you think of like Dennis the Menace. Like, do you know what I mean? I was like, it's not chic. it's not like it's not girly like you're gonna think that i you know yeah it just is i was and i'm so glad that that is changing and then my my i mean obviously the last six months have been wild but the difference isn't like you you know the point we're coming to here now but you know what you learn when you went through your breakdown is that having hit such a low point back then and i've dipped in and out of therapy over the last 10 years like i go i go in it i go out of and the last i've been back in it for the last year year and a half it was a few weeks ago i was i'd really i mean i've not taken my foot off my own neck since this breakup and obviously you know dealing with everything press everything it's been a lot and um i've actually it's not as it sounds i've i've felt from you from afar because seeing someone having to navigate that privately as well as publicly oh it's been a lot yeah it's been a it's been an interesting time and I was in a meeting and I suggested something to do something that I'd already done and my agent was like you did that and I was like what do you mean she was like you did that and I was like did I and then she was like yeah and then later on in the day we did another meeting and I was just really dissociative like I was really like I think she was looking at me like I was really glassy-eyed and then they called me later in the afternoon was like we're gonna cancel the next couple of days and i was like i started to panic she was like you've just been weird today and i called my therapist and he was like like this is good he's like because you're not gonna have a mental breakdown you're not gonna snap because this is these are the little precursors of cognitive overload so like your memory like you kind of like glass and he's like the you caught these before it's like a muscle like you know you're stretching it's like now he's like let it go he's like but if you if you don't take my advice and you insist on going to film tomorrow for 12 hours he's like i don't know what kind of shape you'll be in at the end so you have to you have to look for the signs you do and i always liken it with my clients to a tightrope you know a kind of a tightrope is you know it's yeah and but it should be quite slack you know should be quite so if we use it as kind of burnout stress anxiety whatever you know it should be fairly fairly chill fairly slack and something quite major has to smash into it for it to trigger you know something huge like i don't know running in front of a car or something for you to trigger your anxious you know response your fight or flight but gradually is that stress and that burnout and everything else it's like someone's at the either end just tightening it and tightening it and tightening and tightening it so it is so tight and taut that any tiny droplet of trigger will make you combust and it sounds like that's where you were and also credit to the people you have around you for spotting that because that's where choosing the people that you have in your life is so important because too many people in life in general not just this industry have the wrong people around you and and it's important to not have yes people it's important to have people that will push back at you but do have your interests at heart and I think I've really curated that you You know, I still have my best friends I have in my life.

57:23Some of them, some of them I've met in more recent years. But 50 % of them I've had since primary school still. And I also have Paul C. Brunson, you know, is one of them, for example. But friends of mine that will... Check in on you. Yeah, and vice versa. I have been recently with him, you know. And I think that's really important to have those people in your life that will tell you how it is. I remember he's done it to me on last series before last. I was going through quite a lot personally, just some private stuff with my family, not necessarily me, but he obviously was aware of it. And I remember he checked in on me and he was like, are you okay?

58:01Like, I just want, you're carrying a lot. He was like, you're carrying a lot. He was like, you're going into rescuer mode. And it's really good when you have those people around you that are just calling you out on that. And I'm really pleased that you've had this. And that's what I have in my life now. My husband's very good at it. I'm good at pushing back at him, but I am, I've had another, I had another breakdown when I had my first, my first baby. And that was all sort of tied up in the birth trauma side of things. But I recognize the signs and the symptoms now. You knew what, you could see what was going to happen.

58:32And you have to, you have to know when you're not functioning and stop people pleasing. And you just have to, you have to put yourself first.

58:39Olivia Attwood:Because, and this is something my therapist always reminds me and I'm very lucky that I've got a very, I've got a great management team and I've got great friends. Yeah, you've got good people. But he always says, and this is true my sister works in finance in a seriously high pressure environment our job is obviously so known for it like no one's going to look out for you more than you so he's like if you you know like they will in any industry like they will step over you and replace you when you when you fall on your knees so it's like you are the one that has to save yourself before you're in a situation where if I can't go to like film a show they're not going to cancel that show they're going to find someone else same as if my sister doesn't go to work they're not going to shut down the whole you know hedge fund they're going to get someone else so you have to look after you and like learn to advocate for yourself and your well-being which is something that is not very taught like it's and it's quite hard quite a thing it's quite hard especially for millennials Gen Z are better Gen Z are much better although I see it in my brother yeah and like me and my sister are like my god like he he advocated himself at one of his first jobs in a village pub and I was like when I had my first job in a hairdresser they could have told me to lick the fork clean and I would have done it I'll do it again just for luck I would never be like oh that is you know not in my job title I just want to fucking damn it yeah yeah yeah it's so true but then I think then on the flip to that then Gen Zers do get loads of shit thrown at them from then you know the Gen Xers and the Millennials or the Boomers going oh they're so bloody lazy because they're too entitled and then this and that which you know there needs to be a halfway there's a halfway there's a halfway and you're right my niece and my nephew are Gen Zers and they're doing great in their respective industries in their early 20s.

1:00:17But yeah, I really admire them because they've got their shit together, but they will advocate for themselves.

1:00:25Olivia Attwood:I remember after my nan's funeral, like just last year. Oh, I'm sorry. I know, it's sad. We landed back from Hamburg, my dad's German, and me and my sister the next day was at work, found out my brother had taken a few days off and we were talking on this chat and he was like, we're at work. and he was like do you not feel terrible and I was like yeah awful can't stop crying and he was like right and then it was really interesting he was like well I just I've got days in lieu so I just took some days to put myself back together and my sister was going you know what the fuck is planet is he on he wants to get a promotion it was interesting to see how he was like I need a day or two to process Nan's funeral whereas me and my sister wouldn't have even thought of that we were like off the plane I'm sure she went to a meeting from the airport it's yeah it's interesting but I think that's where Yeah, but I think that's where you need good, especially in work, I think, nowadays.

1:01:16We need to stop this culture of whoever works harder, parties harder, works the longest hours is superior. We need to give other people permission and recognise it for them and help make that decision for them. I would really like to credit my Celebs Go Dating team, actually, for last series. They did that for me. Because I can, even though I preach it, but I'm also, you know, it's hard to take your own advice sometimes. and I remember we were in the middle of a scene for a dating last series and I got a phone call from my son's school and every parent will know that when that phone number rings up and you know it's your kid's school, your heart just drops.

1:01:51But what is it? Yeah, because it's always going to be bad news. And schools have a thing of... The first thing they say is, for me, Ella Mrs. Di Pasquale, that's my married name, Ella Mrs. Di Pasquale, don't worry, there's nothing wrong with the kids. Oh, thank you. No one can bloody pronounce it or spell it. No, no, it's Sicilian. It's Sicilian, yeah. But this was the first time they didn't say, everything's fine, I'm just ringing about, I don't know, you even paid the bill. And it was my son. My son had had a situation at school, a medical situation. And I remember being, and I never normally have my phone on set.

1:02:20And I had it. And I remember sort of freezing. And you know, you've been on the show, but everyone's sort of plugged in and can hear. And I can hear him say, you know, he needs to go to A &E. And I'm thinking, I'm in Central Island. And straight away, it's like, the mum guilt as well. My son is clearly crying somewhere and I'm not there. And I can't find my husband. My husband did go and get him. but he wanted and then my husband's ring me going he just wants you he wants mummy because he wants mummy and I remember freezing in that moment and I was like I need to go I need to go and and again And I don't know what I would have done if anyone had pushed back on me, which they could have done, but they didn't.

1:02:54All my execs, my, you know, Tom, Tara, Paul were like, go, we've got this. They completely rewrote the scenes. They went, we'll cover the scenes. You know, bless them. They canceled something they had to do. And they went, just go, go to your boy. And then I even remember that night being in the hospital and the team very sweetly checking in. Is he okay? I said he's fine, but he does need an operation. Don't worry. I'll be back in the morning. You know, and they were like, it's fine. We've rewritten the entire schedule tomorrow, assuming you're not in. if you want to come in that's great if you don't and you're tired don't come in and in those moments I didn't realize as much as I preach it I needed my team to advocate for me and to give me that out because being the people pleaser that I try not to be but every now and again I do I would have pushed myself too much and actually as it turned out thankfully my son was okay and I did go in later on the next day yes I think this is where in society in life we've got to stop shaming people for needing to take that moment and doing the right thing.

1:03:51But that culture is widespread and it needs to... And I remember when I came back after my mental breakdown, there was definitely snide comments, particularly from guys. Yeah, yeah. Particularly from guys I worked with of like, oh, do you want a happy pills or whatever, you know. Yeah, yeah. And like, yeah, I did feel stigma at the time. You know, I did dread, you'll do this a lot as well, the insurance forms coming through for different shows you work on you've got tick a box you know have you ever suffered from or you know are you on any medication and stuff i'm feeling that now i don't no now i don't but it's different it was different yeah i mean you've you've set us up

1:04:25Olivia Attwood:beautifully to talk about celebs go dating because we can't be here and not talk about it because post that traumatic era in your life and having therapy that's when you fell in love with therapy you trained you did you've i mean you've got a list of degrees and qualifications i won't read off but you um have now managed to combine your two loves you know you're a dating coach so we're talking about before we started rolling i obviously was on so good myself in 2019 i was the year before you 17 it would have been i joined in 18 okay 17 um i was gutted i missed your year yours you're you were brilliant on that i think i remember watching had a lot of fun i watched your episode your series to get me up to speed with what the show was about because i i kind of had quite a quick appointment onto the show and I mean, my God, I just got dropped in at the deep end and loved it.

1:05:13And I was on Paul's

1:05:14Olivia Attwood:first series and then obviously you joined. I mean, I have to say, I've done quite a few shows, different shows. I had a really great experience on that show. Thank you. I'm really happy to hear that. Do you know what? It's, I mean, Tom Reed Wilson, the production, it's a very fun show with some moments of real, genuine depth. I don't, I think it would be different maybe now if I was on it with you probably I don't I didn't I wouldn't he did try and when we talk he was Paul Brunson he when he was on my podcast before he was talking to me about what he'd learned about me and I was quite like oh I thought I kept you well at bay I wasn't I was determined not to let him like sort of crack let him in yeah yeah I wasn't ready at all um and um yeah so I think now I would probably give myself the process more but I was do you know what I very much was there to have fun and that's why I had fun and it was good fun and we do want that from everyone that comes on and it's definitely I'm so pleased that you had a great experience I always say to anyone in this industry that goes oh I'm doing a service day to day I say do it I said honestly and you must know this as well I don't really hear of anyone that goes oh I wish I hadn't done that no the series you filmed is out now and you're approaching the final i saw colleen the other day on loose women because she was on and then i saw actually writing to david potts the other day so i've seen a few go on be honest what are they saying no they're just colleen said she had the best time you guys went to tenerife for the final she said they just laughed you know there were real moments and for some people more than others um you know they it was a very cathartic experience but it's nice the others they like colleen said she just had a lot of fun with it it's it is honestly i i really mean this when you know Paul, myself, Tom and Tara came in it was coming a few seasons ago as well we honestly wouldn't continue doing the show if we didn't wholeheartedly love it and believe in it as a show and how it's made my experience of working on it now for nearly nine years now this is my 12th, 13th series I've done it keeps evolving and I believe actually we've just had some really good ratings from this series, which is lovely as well.

1:07:29And what's great is that the channel and the execs do allow us to have that editorial control when it comes to the advice we give. And I think what is always, I think less surprises celebrities now because I think kind of the pennies dropped and sort of the chat's gone through. But I think at the beginning, we always could see this, the first time they come in, they're like, okay, it's the paycheck. And these guys, like, are they for real? Are they scripted? And then you can always see it in like the second or third session, when they're like, sometimes they've even said it, they're like, can I just check?

1:08:01You're not acting right. And it's like, no. Like I'm genuinely trying to work with you on this. So we often trot out now, standard, I go, now do you know what we all do? Because let's give you our credentials for you to... We're not pretending. No, we're not pretending. And actually we had on this series, one of our late comers, PK Humble, who, a big YouTuber. And I remember PK came in and he was playing with us that first session. It was like, okay, here we go. And we can spot it a mile off, you know takes one to know one and then it was there when he came in it's so different on the second session and he was like I think I could find a bit of value in this and we were like dude thank you because all we ever say to people is you may as well just take yeah the three of us combined with thousands of pounds worth in therapy you may as well take it for free and whilst we're here you know we'll help you out with whatever you're doing and I think what we love about it is that we are not tampered with at all it is a really warm show you know I love the fact that we really do treat everybody with warmth and respect and you know I think I think that's what everybody feels and it's a blessing it's a blessing I'm sounding like PCB now it's a blessing but it is essentially I get to go to work with my best mates what's Paul's what's Paul's thing he always says

1:09:09Olivia Attwood:he always says here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing here's you know what you know what yeah yeah when he sends me a voice note bearing in mind like we are basically like from the same womb like we're the same person just in different bodies so even when he just sends me a private voice note he's like anna sis good day to you okay and then he will list like an agenda the talking points he wants to in a voice note to me that's actually fucking brilliant i love him to pieces he's my act he is my bro he gave he gave tom and i the biggest compliment um a few months ago when he did you know he's got his british uk residency oh i think i saw this yeah He's like proper Brit now.

1:09:49Only just now. It's been a long time. He had to do the test and everything. I mean, that was hard. I think you should do that. He gave me a few questions. I think I failed miserably. I think I'd fail. I'm born and bred London and failed miserably. Is this like history? Yeah, there's no way. Literally no way. There's no way. There was something about council tax and I was like, no idea. All I know is I pay a lot of it. Yeah. But he said, you know, it's when he came over and you would have been one of the first people to have got to know him as well.

1:10:20Olivia Attwood:Yeah, he was fresh. Because that was his first series. Gosh, I really did go on the show and I'm just thinking about how dramatic that time was because there'd been another guy gone. Yeah, so then Paul replaced him as remembering now. Yes, there was a lot of change happened in the space of a three series. Yeah, and he was learning the job on the job and then all of a sudden he was on his own. Yeah, on his own and then learning how UK TV works and the culture and all of us and our, you know, isms and our weird little, you know, things that we say. And he's like, what the fuck are they talking about?

1:10:52Yeah, but also to what you were saying earlier on, like both of us is why we're all in the same sort of club because if he wants it, he goes and gets it. And he's not ashamed in saying, I'd like to do that, please. And he has, and I'm so proud of him as a friend. And, you know, he is, my kids call him Uncle Paul, you know. I mean, who comes to the UK and buys a football club? Obviously Branson, that's what you do.

1:11:13Olivia Attwood:He's unstoppable. He is. No, but I think you guys, we talked about this before we started, I think you guys do such a fantastic job at that line of it's fun, it's light heart entertainment, but it has heart. And I obviously have my show Bad Boyfriends now, and there's others, Love Island I was on, and Love Island's been through scrutiny, it's evolved over the years as it rightfully should. There's other dating shows that have been put under the sport like recently. And it's a very, it's a very like precious thing that you're kind of handling. And you are, it's an entertainment show and you're delivering entertainment to people and they want to be entertained.

1:11:51Olivia Attwood:But you are also dealing with very real things. And that is a very, I mean, hats off to you because I think you guys do it very well. And it's a very, very fine line to walk. Yeah, I think it does take a certain element of skill from everybody involved, if I'm honest with you. because as you say, there's no room for error at all. And, you know, we've talked at the beginning of our chat here about, you know, how people can swoop very quickly. And it's very important that, you know, any project that anyone does, but particularly I do, you know, I'm having to juggle a professional qualification, you know, my own private practice.

1:12:29You know, I am, I have other people behind the scenes in my other world checking what I'm doing, you know, to keep me regulated, to keep me insured. I'm supervised over here so then as you say juggling that then on screen where you are also essentially making a TV show so there has to be an editorial license in that as well I mean it has to be fun and interesting otherwise no one would watch it or it wouldn't be the fun show that people enjoy so it's a very very delicate balance but I do think we get it right and I think we get it right because we do have a very talented team who are all very respectful and it's collaborative and I think with a evolving industry I think what we do at Celebs Go Dating is I think we all lead from the top with a with all with the same goal in mind we want to have a fun heartwarming tv show where the people that come on are actually really bloody brave I mean you were brave coming on and I really do people might go oh whatever they're getting paid to go on the telly but seriously these are people you know celebrities who are scrutinised with everything they do and they are real dates

1:13:36Olivia Attwood:and they're real dates you don't know these people from Adam and then you're filmed it's very awkward it's really awkward and you will get real critique from us if you behave like a dickhead or you're like Mark LeBert you know from The Chase you drink a candle you know we're going to take the piss out of you you know and but we will always always always and I mean this on my children's lives we have everybody's best interest mental health and well-being at the crux of everything. And everybody, it is honestly our ethos. Everyone that comes on our show is the biggest compliment when they leave going, I really got so much from that.

1:14:10Like a Colleen, not only does she have so much fun, but they've actually learned and they've grown through the process. And for me, I mean, that's the best job in the world, right? I get to do telly and I get to do my coaching work. And, you know, if people come out of it going, I had a great experience and got a little paycheck at the end of it, everyone's winning, baby.

1:14:27Olivia Attwood:Someone I know, pretty well. He enjoyed it so much, he went for three rounds, Mr. Pete Wicks. Let me tell you now, I think we could almost do a misses and misses on who knows Pete Wicks better at this point. I'm going to argue probably you. Three rounds at the agency. I mean, I... He couldn't find anyone. Well, I mean, he kept picking up the phone, didn't he, going, you know, I'm coming back. I mean, every time he rang on that bloody doorbell, come on, kid, sit down he's just looking for a free meal let's yeah let's talk about that avoidant attachment style of yours um how is that going um avoidant the complete opposite to what you'd expect good boy excellent okay you would be shooketh shooketh i've known him for 10 years you've known him a long time yeah i'm like i've known you 10 years and i don't know you now who are like he does stuff and I'm like who are you who are you well well all I'd say is it's probably a good time in his life because I mean we're never having him back now he's because he's been on well it's too much it's too much although there is no there is no series that uh he doesn't get a mention and I did think he was going to get away with being mentioned um this year but I did just see a scene uh that has just been aired where unfortunately I mentioned him um and I didn't know I mean we're filming for a long time I don't know what makes the edit in the end yeah of course I think I was talking to someone about birthing something to do with birthing and for jeans and it was Rob Beckett and he obviously had to make some sort of crap joke about me birthing Pete and Sam out of my for Jean but I'm fine with it I think Pete's fine with it he's he's super laid back good sense of humor tick um is there anyone from this series that particularly had an impact on you I know So you can't pick favourites.

1:16:21I can't pick favourites. Honestly, this sounds really meh, but they've been brilliant this year, which we've loved. It's a nice bunch. And we had Kerry and Paolo back as well, Kerry Katona and Paolo, who are still a lovely couple. We're really riding on a wedding on this one. You need a wedding. Honestly, I've already told her.

1:16:37Olivia Attwood:And you had Gabby on from my series, Love Island. I love Gabby. And she's had some rotters. She deserves. She deserves more. I love her. I suppose the scenes that have really kind of gone really, I've had so much comments this week about it, is our scenes with Professor Green, Stephen. He's going for a real big change in life, I think. He's quite an unusual signing for us for Sebsco dating, but he has been phenomenally vulnerable about, and for me, I like to challenge myself and bring topics from the therapy world, from the real world, into the ether. and Stephen allowed us to do that with him being newly diagnosed or ADHD and how that looks when you're dating.

1:17:22Being neurodivergent and dating, it is different for a lot of people. And us being able to explore that through his lens on a neurotypical date is just not working for him. So that was great that he allowed us to work with him on that and also coming out of a fresh breakup as a parent and the pain. Him talking about the single dad experience was... A lot of people noticed actually. I don't normally, my job as a therapist, I switch off emotionally. You just do. You have to. You have to. It's not for you to emotionally project. They don't need my emotions. I'm there to critique and to analyze and to sponge.

1:17:57But I'm also human. And I think maybe as a parent myself as well, he spoke so rawly. And I also knew we'd been working together for three months and it took him that long to really trust, to allow that narrative to come forward for him. and so in that scene you could hear a pin drop and a lot of people picked up that there were tears prickling in my eyes because I knew, and I said, you know, this camera's rolling, he knows his camera's rolling, but for him to allow us to go there and for him to be so vulnerable about that was so powerful and I've seen nothing but thousands of amazing comments of support for him, so that's nice.

1:18:30Olivia Attwood:I think, I don't have kids, and it completely, like, it got me and I think that I've, you know, I have friends that co-parent with exes and they talk about, a lot of women talk about all that pain of like if it's not your Christmas. But you don't quite often hear men talk about it. So I think that also as well is hearing a dad talk about, you know, I'm not waking up with your kid every morning and what that feels like. Sometimes, yeah, because you don't hear from men in that way as much. We don't, and we also heard it, this is why I particularly, James Haskell, I don't know if you know him, but I love James.

1:19:04Olivia Attwood:And he gets a bad, because I think that he's, he just comes out with shit of his mouth and then I think it lands and then people maybe get the wrong vibe people think he's arrogant or a bit of a knob I think but he's honestly one of the nicest people he was probably the favourite from the entire crew cast crew on and off screen just such a sweetheart like such a team player he was definitely the glue with all of our celebs like James just bought it team sports yeah bringing that team sports energy you're right you're absolutely right but through his lens and you're right it's what I've loved about this series of Celebs Go Dating is I'm such an advocate of men because I think, you know, we are in a, of course, on one side, we've got, you know, the manosphere and all of that.

1:19:45And of course, that's, you know, that's a huge thing. And quite rightly, we're there in exposing that. But on the flip side, you know, I do worry about, not all men, you know, I worry about the healthy men. You know, the good guys in our life and what they're dealing with and struggling with. And Stephen allowed us to do that. And so did James, because James is also single parenting as a dad. and I saw through both of their lenses what committed parents they are to their kids and also how respectful they were being towards their exes and I love I like it when celebs go dating takes things to another level to another notch and exposes demographics that perhaps have been underrepresented Absolutely

1:20:22Olivia Attwood:We can't have you here and not touch on Luanna Because actually through therapy and TV that's how you met Luisa, right? You were on the side Yeah And she'd come off. She's my bit on the side. What was your first impression of Louisa? Oh my God, we first met both heavily pregnant. So Lou's middle child of my eldest, they're born two weeks apart. Oh my God, wow. And they are such firm friends as well. They're the same kid, basically. So I was in the green room, a bit on the side. She was coming in to be on the panel. I was the psych. She was coming in as just, no, she'd been on the show. On spring psych, right.

1:20:59Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:21:00Olivia Attwood:So you were analysing. Yeah, yeah. and we were both heavily pregnant oh I love that show that was one of my favourite and it was also I live quite near Elstree so it was like perfect to get to so I remember being really heavily we were both nine months pregnant and she walked in and she took one look at me on the sofa and I'm like Liv I look like a whale I mean people thought I was carrying twins I look huge and she went oh my god you're massive and I was like but at the time it could have gone left or right and I found it actually really funny like I said I've grown up in a very banterish boys world and if we i i've respond well to the piss being taken out of me and i was and i think i joked at her for i don't know being my new or something and um and then through talking we realized we lived near each other uh went on to have babies um and then this was her second baby and i remember she she must have my number but she reached out to me that's it she was like i'm having some she's such a party girl she likes doing events so she's busy and she invited me to some mum baby thing and I didn't respond because I was in the pits of post-natal depression and then she the last thing I want to do is go to a fucking baby bed but she'd obviously picked up on this and this is the thing about this is that she she's such a gobo but she is the kindest most warm like little she hates it she literally hates it when I say that but she is she's fiercely loyal to the people she likes if she doesn't like you need to run hard what's her start yeah exactly and she she kept on at me she was like are you okay and then i had post-dipression and then we sort of met off and became friends sam fairs also was around at the same time and you know she became good friends with lou off big brother and then and then like baby paulie's he was at the time you know we're friends um and that's how it started and then i was doing another podcast which was um breaking mom and dad which was a spin-off to the book i i wrote as well and she came on that and we had quite a diversive conversation around breastfeeding bottle and breast and the list of the figures just spiked and they were like oh my god how refreshing to have two women that completely disagree but get on really well and that's what we fiercely stand for we're like have different opinions doesn't mean you have to be all precious about it and go oh my god you can't be my friend and that was where Luana was born and you've had such incredible success with that podcast and it just looks like you genuinely have the best time and like you say the way that she comes across and I like just what we said earlier again it's like I I know I can I know I like her because I like someone that doesn't give a shit because she just she says what she thinks even if it's not the PC it's not it's the answer's gonna piss people off she says it like do you know but I know from people that know her we have mutual friends I know she's a good girl because it's like otherwise people I know wouldn't talk so highly of her but is there ever any time when something comes out of her mouth when you think oh fucking hell here we go oh probably every week i mean we have a running joke that i'm like and there's my career sailing down the river i'm cancelled i mean we have a running joke we're like have we survived another week not being cancelled um i mean i love someone that is like unapologetically themselves i think this is honestly the magic of luana because we are we are kind of the opposites of each other and yet we have such a united threat yes i think without getting all coachy on you again but we have the same values and that is yeah at your core yeah but she she also hangs around like at her core people that she's known for a really long time yes she's a very you know keeps keeps it close you know she she likes to just she likes what she likes and she's very family orientated as am I both our families get on extremely well but at the same time I think the magic of Luanna is um that's the point and if I was to sit there and I like her to be who she is so she can say what she wants to say.

1:24:44And yeah, sometimes it's totally outrageous and you think, oh my God. But that is who she is. And I think you either love it or you hate it. But for Luanna, it really works.

1:24:54Olivia Attwood:It fucking works. And I would never censor her as she would never censor me. I mean, she takes the piss out of me for the mental health stuff. You know, I take the piss out of her for just being utterly ridiculous at times. But at the core of it, we love each other to pieces. And I think what is key is that we just, you do you, hun. and I've got your back always. I've always got her back and she's always got mine. Beautiful. Always. I couldn't have you here, Anna, without letting my listeners... My listeners love a freebie. We all do. So they'd love a little bit of free therapy if you could give us some top line...

1:25:27Olivia Attwood:Pimp me, baby. Pimp me always. Yeah, take away. So we did a little question box on Olivia's house Instagram and I'm going to pick some faves because there was a lot, guys, wasn't there? The people. A lot of people in the trenches out there. It's the pits. Okay. 15 year age gap between partner I've been with five years the sex has just died out right and it's all about his pleasure when it does happen how do I get it back on track okay so I mean age gap relationships I'm not sure if yeah he's older or she's older yeah how do you specify I yeah typically age gap relationships tend to be you know male female you know him older but not always I'd say there's definitely something going on in a sense of obviously they're lacking in some form of emotional connection and often when there is a lack of physical connection it's because there is something missing uh emotionally and there's and the communication is missing i mean it's i could give a very very long answer but i think my first port of call would be you've got to confront it i was going to say confront the elephant in the room but that was conjuring up all sorts of images there um but i I would say, sorry, I'm now making a very trivial situation to something even worse.

1:26:41I think it's very common, particularly if you're older as well. And if he is older, older guys do experience more lacking in libido, erectile dysfunction. Who knows what's going on for him? I think the two of you need to have a really honest conversation, a kind conversation. Don't be accusatory. Don't lay into each other. Don't lay into him what he's doing wrong. but come at it from an always always with these things in communication is coming at it from an eye perspective i'm feeling like our sex life is really lacking at the moment or i'm feeling i need more from our sex life not our sex life is shit exactly or i've noticed that you've been finding it difficult to you know have you know sex with me but you've been referring over there can we you know it's making me feel a little bit whatever the emotion is you're feeling as opposed to yeah why are you doing that over there i'm feeling that's the best way to start the approach is

1:27:31Olivia Attwood:what I would say. Good advice. I'm 21 years old. I've been in a relationship for two years and my boyfriend refuses to share any financial information with me. It worries me a lot. And when I ask questions, he's super defensive and says it's none of my business. But it worries me for the future. I expect transparency so we can align on life goals. What do you think? Yes, absolutely. It's a big red flag. Lack of transparency around key parts of relationship and does include financial. I'm not suggesting this is at all but financial abuse in relationships is a very underreported part of domestic abuse or relationship issues so I wouldn't for one minute suggest that that is happening but it's definitely something to be very clear about and again coming from an eye perspective letting her partner know what she expects and what she needs from a relationship now we don't have to be fully disclose everything from a financial position You know, I think a lot of, there's no hard rule on this either with finances in relationships, but a lot, the most commonly adopted is, you know, my account, your account, joint account, if you're in that sort of setup, which seems to work for a lot of people.

1:28:41Some people I know pull everything into one. Some other people very successfully have their own independence. The key here is, are you both okay with it? And if you're not both okay with it, that's a problem. So I think if he's withholding, I would want to understand why. Is it because he's controlling? is it because he's got debt is it because he's not trusting what is what is the issue for me that would be the question first i need this from the relationship it's not happening i'd like to

1:29:06Olivia Attwood:understand why because something that i've learned over my you know god i've been dating since i was 15 years old that i never would have thought about 10 years ago is you know i my two things i always talk about dating and do i fancy them are we sexually compatible there you go like financial on compatibility, like life goals, all that stuff. How does your partner value money? What do they think we should spend money on? Because actually, when you're young, you just don't think about these things. No one teaches it to you, they live. What do they do? Do they save? Do they gamble? Do they splurge?

1:29:38Olivia Attwood:Do they want to spend their monies on holidays and live in a smaller house? Or do they want a massive house and never leave the country? What are their experiences with money growing up? What was it talked about at home? This is it. Did you come from a family that had debt issues, that had scarcity, had no money? Or did you come from a family that had it in abundance? all of these are huge conversations when you get together with someone in a committed relationship finances and children and life goals are the key conversations you need you just don't think about when you're younger you don't my last relationship for my husband I loved him so much but we never had the conversation around children and we never had I think finances was actually well we never really had the conversation and we should have done but um but we didn't have those big conversations and then what happens is you get so far into it and you realise you're totally misaligned.

1:30:24No one has to be right or wrong, but you can't also make something fit. And that's why I say have those conversations now.

1:30:29Olivia Attwood:So true. It's a very generalised, broad one here, but porn usage in relationships, porn consumption, as a therapist, what do you think about it? Again, I guess it's a broad umbrella. I mean, you've done work yourself around exposing porn. I think, again, there's nothing wrong with porn. And I'm definitely not here to shame porn usage. I mean, I have, you know, I think it's in what context? I think sometimes it can be really fun and really, you know, it can be fun and sexy to watch porn together. Sometimes you're not in the mood and, you know, you don't mind your partner, you know, having a quick, you know, Tommy Tank watching a bit of porn or whatever.

1:31:16I don't find it, it's not a problem for me. But there are some people that do find it really offensive or find it as though it's a breach of trust within a relationship. Again, I think it's looking at what is your sexual intimacy and compatibility like with your partner. What is the porn? Because I think there's very different scales of what porn is. And have an open conversation about it. Because what I think about porn, it wouldn't bother me if my husband wanted to watch it with me, without me. But if he was watching it excessively and excluding me from having an intimate relationship, that would be a problem.

1:31:50Olivia Attwood:And he was consuming it in place of having sex. Exactly. Because, I mean, what I've learned so much from doing my shows, I mean, it's created to be addictive. Yes, it is. So I think it should be, yeah, approach with caution. Yes. I think cherry on the cake, you know, like you have a drink. Yeah. You know, like it's just a kind of, oh, every now and again, you know, have a little bit of fun. Ooh, throwing caution to the wind. But if it's eight in the morning on a Tuesday. Right. And you're in the work toilet. and then you're going home and she's asking for sex and you don't want it and instead you're going and you're consuming some hardcore porn in place of that that's an issue but that is where a lot of you know porn addiction is huge and it isn't talked about no enough actually but it yeah i think it's very independent depending on the relationship but if that is taking over then it's an issue how do i navigate dating someone who has kids and i have any myself i think dating somebody with kids comes with um having to compromise and i think that's really important to recognize i think well one in three families now are blended families one in three one in three wow so there's a very big chance you're going to date someone yeah i mean if i became single tomorrow particularly my age in my 40s it's a very huge chance the next person i might meet would have children it's important to always put the children first i think children are always the innocent party in relationship breakdown and do come with a lot of factors that need to be considered however not to the detriment of both people having personal time being able to curate a new relationship as well I think a lot of communication a lot of boundaries and a lot of carving out couple time is really important it's not easy for a lot of people but it can also be hugely enriching for every story of oh my god they had kids it was a nightmare because you know I didn't like their parenting style or I never got to see them always have their kids I also know various people that have gone oh my gosh best thing that ever happened to me was meeting my partner who had children and now my life is totally enriched I think again it's about fitting into someone's life and creating and just being aware that there are more people in this relationship than just the two of you yeah I think that's the key because you'll always when there's kids involved there's always an ex somewhere and and that's just the harsh that's just the reality of Yeah, for sure.

1:34:09Olivia Attwood:Right, I can't have you here and not ask you for a bit of advice myself. Oh, right. We're going with this one then. Right, so knowing what you know about me from our mutuals and from having this chat today, if I was coming into the agency again, Is that an ask, Liv? Are you wanting to come on Celebs Go Dating again? Do you know what? I'd actually fucking love to. Because I had so much fun. If I can't make it to the agency again, if they don't allow me the time on my schedule, what would you be wanting me to look for my next partner who would you be thinking okay i'm going to look at these men here and these are the things that i'm going to look for for olivia from the tidbits you've told me i mean i'd love to go on a complete i know i wish we all do i would love that but from what you've told me i think you have in your past maybe deep back in your past I'm not genuinely not referring to any one person at all because I don't know but I am hearing there has been a lot of hurt and a lot of um not being with great partners and I think and I know you are you remind me a little bit of Gabby actually Gabby Allen how we had Gabby come in this series as in just bossing it in life like everything else was just on point just absolute first class but yet when it tapped into the relationship suddenly there was the self-esteem you know chinks you know of of light that that were that needed some some help i think you probably um present as avoidant um that's not to say that being in a relationship with another avoidant doesn't work in fact actually two avoidants can work very well if they respect and appreciate independence.

1:35:57Olivia Attwood:Yeah. Not to the detriment, though, of having those hard conversations and big conversations and making them happen to create connectivity. Yes. But I would put you with somebody that allows you to fly. Anyone that even remotely clips your wings. No. Room 101. Someone that is happy to sit back, cheerlead you, recognize you for everything you do, respect and appreciate an independent woman and is happy to carve out their own niche over there without needing to be too intertwined that's what i would say it's all that's i mean that's kind of where i'd got to with trying to work it out myself a little bit as well i think i think somebody that is a you in a male form yeah um where you can both cheerlead each other but you don't need to be in each other's pockets uh but there is i think the key for you would be though is really making sure that that trust and that the you stuff the conversations that nobody else right now i'm like i'm never gonna trust anyone again right that's where i'm at that's the key and i think trust is trust is going to be the problem the problem let's not call it a problem it's i need to work on it yeah it's the challenge not impossible no because i think you are emotionally very intuitive and i think if you have somebody else it's also happy to do the work and go there to recognise, I think, own your vulnerability in those private spaces and really allow yourself to be in those and keep them just for you.

1:37:26Olivia Attwood:Yeah. Keep them just for you. And I think that is where you will thrive. Thank you. You're welcome. I like that. Anna, who do you think I should offer membership to? Who should I have sat in your seat next? Who would you like to see here? Have you had PCB in? Do you know what? Not to Olivia's house. He came on my old pod and we had a great chat. Do you think I should get him in? I reckon PCB or Tom. Tom Reed Wilson. Tom. You need old Tommy Tucker. Tom? I would say Tom. Why have I not thought of Tom? You need Tom Reed Wilson. I mean, everyone needs an education. Yeah, those eyelashes. I mean...

1:38:01The most beautiful man in the entire world. The eyelashes on this man.

1:38:04Olivia Attwood:You've never seen anything like it. They're real. And they're literally like... Oh my God. Okay, that's a really good one. Tom, you need to get Tom on. And who are we banning? Probably my husband. because he knows way too much. Now I want him on. Now I want a spicy Sicilian on to tell me all your secrets about you shitting in the toilet and blocking the downstairs. I mean, it will be permanent. Although if he's not a person, I was thinking about this, if it wasn't someone to ban, it was something to ban, only because it's happened to me as I was walking in here. Voice notes that go on for five and a half minutes when it needs to be 20 seconds.

1:38:39Olivia Attwood:Keep it succinct or like delete it and start again. No one's got time. I don't have time. I just needed the answer to I needed the answer to what time tomorrow and then the information is buried in this podcast that you have, oh yeah I'm with you that yeah excessive voice notes band this as we said we couldn't stop talking I could honestly record for like three more hours we wouldn't run out of things so like your like everything about your energy what you bring to a room, what you bring to go dating, your like openness, your vulnerability I adore you everything I thought you'd be and more ditto and I had the best experience honestly and I just I hope you did as well babe I honestly you have exceeded my expectations oh I'd love to do that and I'm firmly a Liv fan and I really mean that thank you for having me I don't often talk about some parts of my life not because I don't want to but I have to genuinely like and trust that person and genuinely there's no one else than you that I would be happy enough to talk to Thank you so much.

1:39:44Olivia Attwood:Anna Willinson, everyone.

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