Chris Appleton: Coming Out to My Kids, Kim K's NEW Relationship & Celebrity Hair FAILS!

5:44Chris Appleton:There's nothing like a wedding to get an ass and then a divorce to lose it, right?

5:48Olivia Attwood:Yeah, now I'm like...

5:50Chris Appleton:Oh, I think you look great.

5:51Olivia Attwood:Thanks, honey.

5:52Chris Appleton:From the front and the back.

5:54Olivia Attwood:Okay, I'll take it.

5:55Chris Appleton:Yeah, right now.

5:56Olivia Attwood:Right, I'm going to rewind because your story is like, just, it's incredible. And the more I was kind of learning about you, I've always been aware of you, but when I was like really researching for this pod, I was like, your journey is really remarkable and kind of it's it's it's like you know one in a million of this would happen to someone you grew up in um the north of england well i say north people tell me off it's bad it's midlands it's leicester i guess it's just north of birmingham right or is it just i don't even dare say north now because i get dragged okay so you're a midlands guy yeah you grew up in leicester you fell in love with hair really quickly yeah um where did that hair passion start i mean it's about nine years old you found this passion for hair yeah i think it was probably like trauma

6:44Chris Appleton:that made me find hair because i was dyslexic at school but no one knew about dyslexia then so all the kids would like learn certain way you know you took information off the board and wrote it out i couldn't ever like it didn't mean anything to me like is yours maths or english or both Mine was more English and just reading and like absorbing information. Like I'm great at speaking about, like I would listen to an audio book. I wouldn't read the book. Just because if I read the book, the words kind of blur and I kind of flop them around. It's just how dyslexia is. But at the time people thought I was stupid.

7:16Chris Appleton:They just thought I was lazy. So I think when I found hair, like I actually found it by a dude to my mom's ex. We were really poor as kids and I wanted to make her feel better about herself. She was like a mom of five. And I did a hair and she'd look in the mirror and I realized that she kind of had a change in the way she stood and she saw something that she didn't recognize because I tried to make her look glamorous and that was far from what our life was. So that was the beginning. I thought, oh, I'm going to be the best at this. I found something I was good at. So I was like, I'm going to prove everyone that I'm not stupid.

7:44So I think it actually came from wanting to prove people wrong

7:48Chris Appleton:and I put all my focus into it.

7:51Olivia Attwood:That's so interesting. You talk about like seeing your mom's reaction to having her hair done. Do you think that's what made you fall in love with it is seeing how you can make people feel?

7:58Chris Appleton:yeah I love making people look a certain way but yeah making people feel something I still do even now like I still get that it doesn't matter who if it's a celebrity or whoever it is like you still get that when you know what it's like if you have great hair you feel good about yourself if you have bad hair you feel like shit you know like it can be if you have good glam

8:14Olivia Attwood:and you like look in the mirror it's like it's such an amazing feeling like you say it can be equally impactful when it's not good

8:21Chris Appleton:and for those that don't relate to this that are listening like I will say like the one time that I really got that message driven home is when I was working in this, I had women that came in that got cancer and they lost their hair. And these were like strong, confident women. They used to scare the crap out of me. They were like, you know, business women and they lost their hair and they were like rabbits and headlights. They were like, they would say to me, they would rather lose their breasts than their hair because they were like, I don't know who this person is looking back because my hair's gone.

8:47Chris Appleton:I've lost like my identity and people know I'm sick. So I used to do these wigs. Now I do wigs for celebrities as like, you know, a different vibe. But back then it was about doing wigs for cancer patients. and it made them feel like they could get through the cancer. So I know for a fact that the hair is more than just, you know, an outside aesthetic. It's like an emotional thing on the inside and that's what's really powerful for me.

9:09Olivia Attwood:It's so much more than just hair, like you say. It's someone's whole identity. And for so many women, I feel the same.

9:14Chris Appleton:Do you act differently as a redhead?

9:16Olivia Attwood:Do you know what? I feel like I was always meant to be this color. Really? When I look in the mirror. You were blonde before, right? I was blonde. I was like bleach blonde for years. My natural color is like a really flat, mousy brown. I probably first colored my hair when I was like 12 years old. Do you remember Sunning? The bleach spray? Yeah, I got a hold of some of that and just like fucked shit up. Like for real.

9:37Chris Appleton:Do you notice just generally people do? Because when I'm blonde, I know people treat me differently to when I'm brunette.

9:42Olivia Attwood:Do you know what I find more different is like length.

9:45Chris Appleton:Oh, really?

9:46Olivia Attwood:Yeah, I feel like myself, I feel sexier when I have longer hair. But then this length will start to annoy me like in a few weeks.

9:53Chris Appleton:Do different people perceive you differently?

9:56Olivia Attwood:There might be a tie. I've not really thought too much into it. Since being less blonde blonde, maybe people take me a little bit more seriously.

10:04Chris Appleton:There was like a test done where there was like twin sisters and they had a brunette and one was bleached. And they went into different bars and basically they did this kind of experiment to see how they were treated. And the blonde was perceived to be more fun, more outgoing, more up for a good time. Also more up for like maybe a one night thing. whereas the brunette was taken as like more serious maybe a bit more boring a bit more kind of together um and probably more like dating but that was just like so interesting you know i mean obviously that's not everyone at all and that's stereotyping but it was just like a an interesting thing of how people perceive people because when i'm blonde i know when i walk in a room i feel like people look because i'm tall it makes you kind of and it catches the eye i think like it

10:44Olivia Attwood:stands especially a dark room blonde stands out yeah more and i'm always like sorry i'll know this when I'm colouring my hair it like I can't go beyond a certain point of darkness because then I feel like it has to be in that realm where there has to be some light running through it otherwise I feel like I go I'm brunette which anyone who's been blonde a long time knows and she's like you're not brunette but that's that feeling of yeah being brunette you started working in the salon when you were 13

11:08Chris Appleton:I was a kid

11:10Olivia Attwood:you was a kid I don't even know if that would be allowed now

11:12Chris Appleton:I lied

11:13Olivia Attwood:did you actually

11:14Chris Appleton:I just really wanted to get going I wanted to prove everyone wrong I really wanted to get a job and like I wanted to get out of school I was bullied at school for doing hair everyone said I was gay which I didn't want to be because it seemed like it was really bad and everyone told me I was stupid like this teachers because I was dyslexic so I think at a young age I got really focused on like I want to prove everyone that I'm not stupid and not gay and I didn't look left or right and I just went full blast forward and I think a lot of really the sad part is I abandoned myself a lot at that age I think I instead of like discovering myself like you should as a kid I became so headstrong on being a version of what society told me to be or what was normal and I didn't look left or right but then it caught up with me later on in life unfortunately but

11:59Olivia Attwood:you are 13 working in a salon how do you hold your own against all these like adults and sort of older people how do you kind of how do you gel into that salon environment I don't know

12:11Chris Appleton:I think I just love the energy of people walking in one way and walking out another way. And I just loved it. I remember the first day, I remember exactly where I was in Leicester. I remember the hair salon. I remember where I stood. And I saw people walk in and walk out. And I was like, wow, that woman looks like she's like bouncing out where she walked in with her shoulders down. And I was like, I just love the energy of it. I love that you get like emotional medicine from it. I felt like it was like a superpower and I just wanted to get into it. I was horny for it. I just was so... You were like, I'm hard for this.

12:39Chris Appleton:Yeah, I just really wanted to like, get in there get going I wanted to be good I think I wanted to be good enough I wanted to feel good enough and you know eventually when I thought well if I'm you know this successful if I have this much money or whatever like I'll feel I'll feel enough but didn't can I tell you that my um first job was an Italian guy oh hot how did you get on did you have to like sweep the

13:01Olivia Attwood:floors clean toilets wash so much hair that like my thing used to get used to wet anyone yeah down their back did you wet them so bad

13:09Chris Appleton:that sometimes they stood up and their pants were no

13:12Olivia Attwood:I did like wet the t-shirt and then their stylist would be like my client's fucking soaking like are you joking

13:17Chris Appleton:so this shit they used to go down there's one woman sat down she's huge diamond earrings like big fucking homdingers and she's like wash the hair she's like oh you know they always love the massage don't they especially as a guy you know they massage and I'm like oh stronger hands yeah like climaxing at the back she's like oh no seriously they love a good massage so um and then I remember like you know you do the towel wrap don't you and I was like all proud of myself and she sat down and then she looked in the room and I looked in the room I thought oh something's missing one of the earrings was not there just this one blinger on the side the other side down the drain stop

13:52Olivia Attwood:what did you do?

13:54Chris Appleton:I just tried to get it out you didn't have to get the plumber out it's just gone it's pretty intense before the days of people swimming over

14:00Olivia Attwood:a Saturday internian guy was like they have the clients like back to back so I remember like stylists are under pressure like they would be you know if you fucked it up they'd let you know about it i found it quite character building and then i obviously got friends of like older girls there and they'd let me use their id to go out on the weekends so it was like all round it was like it helped me

14:19Chris Appleton:grow up i think really quickly you're in customer service it's so interesting did you ever burn

14:23Olivia Attwood:anyone's head with the water uh didn't burn i burn i think i used to burn people's hair head a lot because you do the the you know you could do a color and then just a blast off dry the juniors would do so i'm just like blasting off like staring out the window they're like ah like if I'm like shit sorry

14:37Chris Appleton:the thing is after a while you start to ignore it you're just like oh sorry yeah you're just kind of like huh you're like oh nothing or like I used to sometimes whack them on the head you know you'd be going like this and just tap them and they just ignore it and they're like oh it didn't happen it's so true hairdressers are so funny they make shit up all the time so sometimes hairdressers do that thing where they just move the hair you know they're just kind of like usually means you don't know what they're doing or like the client will come in and they're like I loved my colour last time it was perfect and you're like great and you go in the back and you look in the book you're like fuck it and write it down so then you guess the colour and then in the end like obviously the colour's completely different and the client's like I don't think it's a little different it's darker than last time you know what you say what I'd be like you know they've changed the formula it's the colour it's the night you know sorry you're nodding at this

15:22Olivia Attwood:they're always

15:23Chris Appleton:an excuse it's bullshit it's just they didn't write it down no it's just it's funny working with customer service and the different people and personalities you meet

15:30Olivia Attwood:but it teaches you a lot it does

15:32Chris Appleton:it teaches you like

15:33Olivia Attwood:resilience I think it teaches you like human interaction how to read people

15:37Chris Appleton:I wet someone so bad once we had to put our knickers in the tumble dryer it was so bad she wasn't just damp they were fully wet she went all the way

15:46Olivia Attwood:down the back down her ass crack

15:47Chris Appleton:yeah I don't know make sure it wasn't

15:49Olivia Attwood:from the massage

15:52Chris Appleton:either way they went in the dryer

15:53Olivia Attwood:talking of why did you take

15:55Chris Appleton:someone's knickers off that's actually

15:57Olivia Attwood:that's what you think about it's actually nuts that was a long time ago

16:00Chris Appleton:I don't know if we do that anymore

16:01Olivia Attwood:probably not talking of being hungry for getting your start. I want to bring up some pictures that I have here. You actually posted them on Instagram. Your mum has always been one of your biggest supporters.

16:12Chris Appleton:My poor mum.

16:13Olivia Attwood:And she let you, well, she was your model.

16:15Chris Appleton:Yeah.

16:15Olivia Attwood:And how old were you when you did some of these looks? These are like very avant-garde. Between age of like

16:20Chris Appleton:13 and 22 probably.

16:22Olivia Attwood:Can we go through some? Can we chat about them? So like, this gives me very much like cabin crew bun, but like, she's hiding something back there.

16:31Chris Appleton:You know who inspired that? That was back in Leicester in Georgie's house on, I was practicing red carpet looks and that was like a look J-Lo used to do, you know, with the Shing Yong thing. And I always was interested how they did the bump, you know, and how they got that smoothness. Yeah. So I was practicing on that. That's why you can see all those donuts behind her on the floor. That's like the padding you put underneath it. So that was... Trying to figure it out.

16:52Olivia Attwood:Oh my God, I just... Whoever would have known that would end up doing J-Lo. All those donuts. Yes, I want to come on to J-Lo in a minute and the DM. This is a particular favorite. This is very like Whoville and your mom looks like she's regretting all of her choices of agreeing to be your model she's questioning alive that was that was um for a hairdressing awards i was trying to like you know hairdressing

17:15Chris Appleton:it's like more creative yeah yeah yeah asymmetric asymmetry bangs up to your hairline you know to be this like artsy and it's like cool so my mom was getting my my real hairdressing and how long did it take to even get that out or did you leave that to it it was just like i was just putting things on top of it.

17:32Olivia Attwood:I mean, this is like, it's impressive, but it's...

17:36Chris Appleton:That was for a competition. It was for a hair competition. It was like snake print. I was trying to get like snake print hair. Okay, because they used to do

17:42Olivia Attwood:like a theme, wouldn't they? And then you'd have to build something around.

17:44Chris Appleton:So the top is like made out of hair. You used to get little bits of hair, cut them and hairspray all together. So it carried like a sheet of hair and then put it on a hair and spray it.

17:51Olivia Attwood:I mean, it's amazing. And you were so young. I think, okay, wait, I lied. This is actually a personal favorite because I want to know how you got the Diamantes in the fringe.

18:01Chris Appleton:You know how heavy that thing? My mum's head was like this. She's got a whiplash trying to hold this thing. I was like, put your head straight.

18:08Olivia Attwood:That's a mum that's like got your back.

18:10Chris Appleton:That was an Egyptian theme. It was an Egyptian theme thing.

18:14Olivia Attwood:It's actually so good though.

18:16Chris Appleton:I was working with this artist. She was a jazz singer. She was really into like different things. I thought it'd be cool. We did actually do it on her. I don't think the pictures got used.

18:27Olivia Attwood:I love the fact that in all of the mum's just like serving face, like just pure questioning.

18:32Chris Appleton:Oh yeah, that was my editorial phase. My editorial fashion week phase. Yeah.

18:38Olivia Attwood:For listeners, not watchers, we've got purple, red going through, twisted. Purple, orange, bubbles.

18:44Chris Appleton:Yeah, full week.

18:45Olivia Attwood:Mums thinking really, really hard. This is my favourite because she looks like she's just like,

18:51Chris Appleton:she's as horrified as I am.

18:53Olivia Attwood:Her hands over her face. She's like, what have I done? She's like,

18:54Chris Appleton:I've got to go. She's like, I know you're my son, but I've got to leave. No, she's like, I think she said this hairstyle makes my nose look big no so that was like I copied that from a Prada campaign it was like I used to look at magazines I'd look at the covers it was like very Prada so I was like trying to it's just I practiced everything I practiced every hairstyle you can imagine

19:16Olivia Attwood:but practice, practice, practice and then that's like

19:19Chris Appleton:all the time which led me to do well one day but yeah

19:23Olivia Attwood:and I want to get to career because there's so much and your kind of start and your break into Hollywood is so fascinating but you touched on sexuality there and i wanted to read this quote to you that you you said um previously that you felt like you were holding your breath basically all of your life till the age of 27 yeah what what does that mean what's you holding your breath i don't think

19:47Chris Appleton:i knew i was holding my breath okay i thought i was like living you know i thought i was doing what i was meant to do like i had two kids i had kate my girlfriend who we'd been together for 10 years i was good at the age of 26 27 we broke up because you met katie young 19 and you had and then you had billy at 19 that's yeah 19 like i'm 33 and the idea of being a parent is that

20:10Olivia Attwood:terrifying to me really how did did you like how did you approach parenthood at 19 um well i met

20:15Chris Appleton:kate and i met someone i really loved and i think we have an unconditional love we're still best friends now um all these years later but basically i um we had kids um i don't know i just i wanted to be with her i wanted you know i wanted to do the things that you did you can get together get married and it was kind of like what people did we didn't actually get married we had kids and then when we broke up at like 26 27 it was hard because i loved her but it just kind of broke down i don't know the relationship broke down and so you know when you go for a breakup like some people like cut the hair off we call it the we call it the breakup hair cut it's a little bit scary like you kind of want to change the you want to get away from the pain that you're in yeah and you want to change something and sometimes you want to fast forward it you know so I was sort of hooking up with like different I don't know different people and then one night I was actually on a trip and we drank a lot it was for like a big hair show thing and this guy tried to kiss me then the night and I didn't think too much to it other than like oh that was weird I was so drunk last night whatever I'm just going through a phase but that kind of opened up this window and then we became friends and we spoke all the time um they didn't even live in the same country but we had a conversation it was my first time into sort of I guess connecting to someone that was gay and maybe acknowledging that i had over a period of time started to develop feelings and i but that i got very scared and i was like wait what's happened what am i doing like this is ridiculous like okay i'm back to normal back to my normal regime but then i once i'd kind of opened up that door i couldn't get rid of it i couldn't contain it and like i think fast forward to coming out i think when i finally surrendered and there was a lot of darkness in that process and it wasn't i talk about it lightly now yeah because i've done the work but it was really dark darkest years of my life for sure but i think in finding who i truly was i realized that i'd been so mean to myself my whole life so that kid that got bullied at school and that kid that felt different and not quite understood i left him and really kind of became something that i was told to be or what was like i said normal yeah and i felt bad for myself i realized like oh my god like i have been so mean i think i really ignored myself and my own like living trying to be a version of what seemed right yeah and i think once i connected to that like little kid that that me the person that i kind of just abandoned it was like i don't know i think that's when i kind of let go and i was like all right i actually tried to kill myself that's really the moment so i told my kids that was the darkest time in my life because you basically

22:54Olivia Attwood:came clean to katie didn't you about your sexuality yeah so we were trying to deal with

22:58Chris Appleton:it but then you know when there's a secret everyone wants to know about it so you told

23:01Olivia Attwood:her first yeah and what was her reaction to that did she have any suspicions no i mean i think it was just dark it was just a really hard time where we were separating and you know it's it's

23:16Chris Appleton:hard when you're going for a break it was never easy there's so many different mixed emotions and then this came up and you know it's not as though we had kids it's not as though we just didn't see each other yeah we had a house to go and we're trying to figure stuff out and how old were the kids when you sat them down and had that conversation seven and nine just turned seven and nine and it's tough well the hardest part for me was like i was so bullied at school like people would spit on me i got jumped beaten up like it was bad like it wasn't like a little bit of like it was like it was aggressive yeah my mom would have to call the police it was and i never understood like i mean this thing just seemed terrible to be gay just seemed awful I'm definitely not that.

23:58Olivia Attwood:Because I was going to say, at that time, growing up in Leicester, what was the idea of being openly gay was just not an option to you. It just was like,

24:04Chris Appleton:there was a pub on the outskirts of Leicester that people kind of went to, but it was like on the outskirts. Everything was like, I remember my mum sitting me down as a kid and she told me, not that she was trying to scare me, but just what she knew, that like gay men, there's this thing called men, gay and they have sex and there's this thing called HIV. Everyone just thought you got HIV. Like Princess Diana, shook someone's hand without gloves and it was worldwide news because people thought you could just catch it from touching people and all men had it.

24:33Olivia Attwood:My dad had a friend, a very close friend that died of HIV and his parents had him in the basement and then people visited him but like you say, at that time the understanding around it was like you could catch it by literally sitting by someone's bedside. It was horrific.

24:49Chris Appleton:It was scary. But you know, so I just was just, the whole thing seemed terrifying to me. so when I told the kids I just felt like every all that bullying all that fear and all of that kind of I guess abuse I went to as a kid I was putting on to them and as a parent all you want to do is protect your kids if someone hits your kid in the playground you want to go find them a fucker and kill them you know you just say who was it you know like you have that protective instinct to protect them from harm if you're the one causing the harm I felt like I just felt like a disease i felt like i had cancer i felt like it was this plague i felt like i felt like i just felt like i was infecting people with like my with suffering from i something i couldn't seem to control and i was like everyone's like you must have always known and i didn't i wasn't watching gay porn i wasn't meeting up with guys i wasn't thinking of guys i just thought i was fine until i until you knew you weren't yeah and then that was something i kept things well why can't i just like be back why can't i be back to how i was i don't but once i'd opened those doors like i couldn't control it so telling the kids was awful and that night i just honestly felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay it was a horrible experience and kate actually is the one that found me and you know she's safe you drove that night didn't you

26:10Olivia Attwood:to a hotel yeah overdose and found yourself in hospital i just brought as many painkillers as

26:17Chris Appleton:could and i drank this bottle of gin and just closed my eyes out a picture of the kids and i used to always sleep with it because every night i'd go bed and i'd hold this picture of the kids and i just kept praying to god i was like please take this away from me i felt like i got this cancer like i said i couldn't get rid of it and if i could have cut it out i would have and so i just i don't know if i wanted to die i just wanted to kill it or that or whatever was happening to me and um in the moment where i say i felt like i could breathe was i was in the hospital and you know like i said i didn't die kate was the one that found me and you know i think me and kate have a very special relationship because even in my darkest time she's been able to see me when i couldn't see myself you know and i like i said i do think we have an unconditional love which has come through the test of time um but i laid there and i can remember thinking i couldn't be any meaner to myself like i've yeah really hated myself i couldn't have or any lower in myself.

27:13Olivia Attwood:Well, to think that your kids would be better off without you than you being openly gay is such an unfathomable, like the darkness of that is quite hard to get your head around.

27:23Chris Appleton:Yeah. So I thought to myself, well, I couldn't get any darker than trying to kill yourself, right? This is a real low point in my life. So I thought, well, if I'm meant to be here and I'm not meant to die, then I can't live like this anymore. no so i think in that moment i just was like well what's the opposite and i just surrendered i just thought well what about if i just say this is it i'm chris and i'm gay and i don't know what that means and i haven't got it figured out but what about if i just start there and i think in that moment that's when i felt like i could breathe because i think it's the first time i'd stopped like trying to control it or change it or or be something that i thought i was until i wasn't and trying to understand it and trying to understand it all in one go and then give everyone an explanation it was just the beginning of my journey of finding out who i was how i got to that place and that took years and it's the work's brutal but um i think in that moment of surrendering

28:18Olivia Attwood:was really when i came back to myself and you were able to let you say breathe and just like be like my life starts now in a very different way yeah and how long do you think it took you to let you say to sort of to go through that work how do you approach that when you made that decision I'm going to survive, I'm going to live. Like, what was the steps that you took to then be like, this is how I'm going to make sure?

28:41Chris Appleton:I think therapy was really good for me. But, you know, I think finding a therapist is really hard. It's like finding a good partner. They're not easy to come by. I thought it was me.

28:48Olivia Attwood:I thought they were quitting. Like, I've been through a few. Because you have to gel with them and you have to like their style. And I think everyone needs something quite different from a therapist.

28:57Chris Appleton:100%, yeah. I'll be honest, I don't think I really, I think I've been through many different stages in my life of understanding. I don't think I I think I did enough work to get through but then I think part of me going to America I would say it was for my career and I know you want to talk about that jailer situation which we'll talk about but like I think where I'm at now in my life and looking back and being honest I think a lot of me moving to America was trying to run away still I think I was trying to still run like shortly after that I moved to London and again all my career but I think I was just trying to escape from this shame I felt just like shed it and leave it I felt like I just need to get away still so although I was I was probably distracting myself a lot with work and for my career it did great really motivated me to be like I say the best again keep proving people wrong

29:43Olivia Attwood:prove them I'm not a loser and prove that you're worthy totally but it wasn't probably till a

29:48Chris Appleton:couple of years ago which is where I actually found myself in a situation where I looked at my private life and I was like so I got the things that I thought I always wanted which was to be good at what i did to have enough money but i still feel the same and i actually keep making the same mistakes with the same people and you know in terms of relationships yeah that that were not beneficial to me so i really wanted to understand why i and i remember speaking to my therapist i was like i really want to go i just want to understand why i'm attracted to this why i go into this situation why it ends up saying and he is the work he does is quite deep and he said to me i want to take you back to when you were younger and i'm like oh okay i thought oh here we go have you done this in a child work i've done in a child and i've done like he's asked me

30:34Olivia Attwood:to a timeline from birth of like moments that stand out in my memory so you literally write like a line and you do these like all these memories and you kind of work through these like key moments of your childhood for your teenage years it's very good it's like i took like a timeline of life. I don't think it's got, like, a necessary name, but it's very, like, it feels very exposing.

30:56Chris Appleton:So the child work, child work I think I didn't really know much about, but he was like, I want you to go back to this, like, younger memory. What's the youngest memory you can think of yourself? And I was like, oh. And I'll be honest with you, I was like, this is bullshit.

31:10Olivia Attwood:Yeah.

31:11Chris Appleton:Here we go. You're like, oh, God, this is, like, so, like, la, la. I'm so glad I'm paying you this much. But I thought, you know what? I'm going to do it. Because I said, I want to get better. I'm going to trust the process. And I think it was kind of slightly hypnosis as well. And I'm not really like, I'm like, okay, Mystic Meg. Do you remember Mystic Meg?

31:27Olivia Attwood:I love that you spent so much time in America and you're still so English in your core.

31:31Chris Appleton:No one knows in America. So I'm like, here we go. Anyway, so I remember this feeling, this version of myself. I was a kid. I was looking outside the window. I was only like maybe six or seven. And he's like, all right, so you remember this, what you were doing? I said, yeah. And he said, how do you think he felt? this this kid and i said well i think he felt a little sad and a bit like different wasn't quite like my brothers or my sisters because i'm one of five i felt like kind of the odd one and he's like okay so what do you think you know if you could go back to him now you're in that memory because you go into this like hypnosis state what would you say to him and i was like well so what do you think he needed to hear and i was like you know i think he just wanted to know I think it was going to be okay.

32:17Chris Appleton:And like, that one day, how I feel different now, that will be your superpower and you're going to, you're going to do so well and I'm so proud of you. Like you would talk to a child. Yes. Like if a child felt insecure or unseen, you'd be like, hey, buddy, come on, it's all right. But you're talking to yourself. But when you talk to yourself, you talk to yourself like shit. You talk to yourself, like we say the worst things to ourselves. Like you're a fucking loser, you're fat, you're ugly, whatever, all the things. I'm old, you know, all the things. Obviously, I don't say the same.

32:44Olivia Attwood:but you never say you'd never say it's your best friend or you'd never say it's someone you love

32:48Chris Appleton:but for some reason we're so hard on ourselves like we don't get the job oh fuck i'm such a loser yeah yeah yeah but when i saw myself as a kid there was this relation i relationship i realized i never had with myself where i'd abandoned that little kid and i left him and he was talking to me about that and then like in going back and befriending that kid i mean hey come here like you're all right i felt a physical feeling like in my chest of like warmth and i realized i'd been looking for this love outside externally for someone to give which actually could give to myself and i'd been searching the whole time in actual fact it was always with me and i think a lot of people like could do that work and really find that self-love and i always felt self-love was a little bit like i don't know if it's the brit in me but i always thought it was a bit like oh self-love we're not good at that no i know yeah but but there is something in being able to like look in the mirror and being all right with what you see and feel proud of yourself or to have alone time i never used to be alone i used to always be in a relationship because it was better to be with someone than be on my own do you know what i mean the hardest work was actually

33:51Olivia Attwood:being comfortable to sit on your own and your own company totally so it was only a few years ago

33:55Chris Appleton:that actually really that work and that was a real that was the real game changer i think because it was the first time that i think probably all right externally i had a good i've had a good career and that was motivating in many ways my trauma motivated me but you know on the inside I think I was kind of broken I don't think I I felt you know I had this longing for this love that I felt like I never had but it was really within and and and like look I still get triggered all the time but the difference is now I can kind of be more rational and come back to myself and be like okay I'm just doing that thing I do you know when that hater voice I talk about it in the book starts going on like i can actually turn it down and be like i'm just doing that thing i do

34:36Olivia Attwood:and i can come back to my thoughts are not my reality yeah it's like see it's the wounded child

34:40Chris Appleton:inside of you it's this kid that felt unseen or unsafe or unheard or different it's that kid playing and you can kind of like self-soothe which i know just some people listening might think it's it's like a lot and it's bullshit but it's not it's really not and it's actually very simple yes but once you see it and once you see that kid in you you can't unsee it that's really interesting And you never really want to be that mean to yourself again. You know what I mean?

35:03Olivia Attwood:You kind of acknowledge how abusive you've been to yourself. And then also how you've allowed other people to treat you. Yes, because that reflects, doesn't it?

35:11Chris Appleton:Yeah, and now I would never tolerate some of the things that I've put up with in my life. Never. But at the time I was like, oh, it's all right. We'll figure it out. Love's enough.

35:20Olivia Attwood:And also you're accepting what you think you deserve on a level. So it's like you probably think what you were being given by people was what you deserved.

35:27Chris Appleton:But it's not just relationships, friendships. Friendships, working environments. Yeah, so many situations in my life. This is not just like one thing. It's so many situations. Even family, I've like put up with stuff that I shouldn't have. And I do have the power to sort of put a boundary in place, but I never knew I could. I never knew I could do that.

35:46Olivia Attwood:How do you feel now when you put boundaries in place for yourself?

35:49Chris Appleton:I did it at Christmas.

35:51Olivia Attwood:In what way?

35:53Chris Appleton:Shit went down.

35:55Olivia Attwood:christmas is the christmas is the time for family shit coming down i thought i was all together

36:00Chris Appleton:and got my new house in the uk for a long time i couldn't come back to the uk so i'd come back and i had like a full panic attack i couldn't quite understand what was wrong with me because it evoked feelings because when i went to america people just knew me as chris they didn't know me as chris that was straight but then gay and had kids it was like always this i was just like chris hey nice to meet you oh you get okay cool no one gets but when i was here there was this like history that i felt like shame i felt i felt i was dirty i felt wrong i felt like i still felt like that i was the person you were yeah so coming back i think i felt like post-traumatic stress i think i felt like i was coming back to a version of myself that i felt i'd left so i think buying a place now in the uk has been really wholesome and fulfilling because i've really done the work and i understand now i don't want to delete my past they're all parts of me that's why i'm happy to talk about them in the book because I hope for anyone that is going through a hard time they can relate to it and feel like they can open up because there's nothing worse than looking like you have it all together from the outside but being broken on the inside yeah it's really sad and I think there's a lot to be said that you can do to really help other people because I think a lot of people feel that and it doesn't matter how successful you get or how rich you get it doesn't change if you're not aligned on the inside you know life can be very sad and I think for a long time, my voice.

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39:05Olivia Attwood:So many people I interview who have had like enormous success have that, what you've described like a very difficult relationship with their younger self. And I think that you say that often drives, it's kind of like bittersweet, isn't it? Because sometimes those people achieve things that, you know, they might not have achieved if they had that whole, you know, that perfect childhood, that sense of self being full. You obviously were so driven. You were, you know, from nine years old, you're in the sound at 13. You talk about this, we've teased J-Lo a few times, so for the listeners, we're going to get to it.

39:40Olivia Attwood:you received a message from jlo's team you had about four or five thousand followers on instagram is that correct i don't remember how many and you thought that it was a scam or just a you didn't

39:51Chris Appleton:think it was real did you well i just left the salon i started working with rita or i just

39:55Olivia Attwood:how did you get into working with rita how did she find you or how you find her look everything

40:01Chris Appleton:in my life was long you know everything's been such a process like nothing was ever given to me I've never got the yes. I always lost the competition, got the no's, got laughed at. You know, I just, but I just kept being persistent, kept not giving up. I dust myself up, bounce back. Went from the salon, got to the top of the price level, then was kind of still hungry to know what else was out there. So I started to do like hairdressers, like covers of magazines, like industry. I won like Eastern hairdresser of the year, the British Hairdressing Awards. And then I did like a TV show that was like BBC Three, hairdress of the year it was like great british bake-off vibe but like okay i won that i actually remember that show these yeah they were like little like leapfrogs and then i was doing some editorial stuff like fashion week and i was working with a makeup artist that worked with rita okay and she's like oh rita's looking for a new hairstyle so i'll put a word in for me and you know we managed to get together and then i kind of just got with rita that way it was kind of just being in the realm of that world and then her giving me a chance and it working so i get an email from jlo team and i'm like well this is a joke you know clearly i'll delete that stupid

41:08Olivia Attwood:and after you've done the the ban as a child like this must have been like you've been redoing the

41:13Chris Appleton:jlo know who i am it's chris and then i got another one a couple of weeks later another email and it was like asking me for to if i was available for her show in vegas and i just thought to myself oh how does jlo know who i am and i thought oh social media like she's looking at people see your work because i just thought instagram was new and i was posting my work and Rita was always changing her hair yeah so it kind of I guess you know people like oh you know being a celebrity you change your look and someone that wants to do something different you know they were like all right he looks like he you know is up for the challenge so I packed two bags and left for London left for LA and uh I left my apartment and everything in the UK but again like I think at the time it was definitely like oh for work and it was but also a lot of it was You were running away from a lot of stuff.

41:59Chris Appleton:Yeah, totally.

41:59Olivia Attwood:One of your first big gigs in my writing sang in the US was Christina Aguilera on The Voice. And it wasn't all smooth sailing.

42:07Chris Appleton:Wasn't all schmoov.

42:09Olivia Attwood:What happened?

42:11Chris Appleton:It was not schmoov, not schmoov. Well.

42:15Olivia Attwood:What went wrong?

42:16Chris Appleton:It all went wrong, really. What went right, really. I'd went to LA so excited, packed my suitcase, and I thought, I'm going to do this. i was there for like three or four months i didn't get any work i'd spend my money it's expensive and um i eventually was speaking to different people makeup artists and you know trying to connect with people and a makeup artist recommended me so i'll get asked to do christina or his hair for the voice and um then i was just terrified because i was like oh impostors enjoy him i'm like why do you want to work with me i'm stupid and just like i'm an idiot you know what i mean like all the things like i don't know what i'm doing like she's gonna see right through me she's worked with the best people in the world you know like she's had she can have any hairstylist she want um why would you pick me you know so i was on the way and i remember speaking to kate and i said look i'm really nervous and kate is the mother of my kids for those who have not got it but she said look chris if you don't make this work you're gonna have to come home because you can't just sort of stay out there and like you know i need to provide for kids i had responsibilities is so i turned up to the voice and there was like three hours for glam and the makeup artist went in and started doing the makeup and i was waiting outside the trailer and then an hour went by and i was still waiting outside so i kind of got to thinking maybe i'm like not got the job and i'm like a backup okay option maybe that seems realistic or maybe she's had her hair done and she just wants some finishing touches i don't know but there's not a lot of time so another hour won't buy and i was like yeah it's definitely a joke like me a joke you know all the things that you chase yourself and then um and on the outside i'm like you know i'm so happy to be here i'm so excited so the last 20 minutes before the live show she called me into the trailer and hair wasn't done you know it was ready to be done you know she needed a headwind so she's like what you want to do and i was like i really want to do three hours of glam but we'll work with a 20 minutes so i thought to myself what would be really good is i'll do a wig i'll do like a hairpiece on the back because like going in 20 minutes i could get rid of some of her hair and put it i thought that would be great and i had everything all prepped it was always so prepped and she's like oh i don't like wigs and i was like oh god cool cool i was like of course you don't but she might as well have said i don't like you chris yeah that's how i took it i'm like why would you yeah i don't like and you're already giving yourself such a hard time in your head yeah i'm like well good because i don't either you know i don't who does who likes weight i don't you know i just was falling apart so i'm like oh cool so then it was like that awkward thing where hairdressers

44:57Olivia Attwood:like you know they move the hair just like they're just sort of moving it just they're kind of just

45:01Chris Appleton:like moving your hair just look like they know what they're doing just moving it's really happening he's sort of stroking my head so i'm like stroking christine over there's head like a like a cat oh i was like frozen it was like froze it felt like 20 years and i was there for about 20 seconds so I thought well I'm going home you know job done see you later thanks so then I remember hearing like Kate's voice and I remember her saying to me look if you don't make this work you're gonna have to come home and it kind of like put me back in my adult body and I thought about my kids and I was like look I didn't come this far to come this far if I do mean she doesn't like it cool we're not a match but if I don't try this and do what I know I'm good at and I've done all the work to get to this place I'm always going to kick myself so I got one of the pieces and I put it I was like, let's try this.

45:44Chris Appleton:And she was like, oh. Because I know I was good at wigs. I could spend a lot of time perfecting them. It wasn't just like a shitty... It was something you were confident.

45:52Olivia Attwood:You knew you could nail it.

45:53Chris Appleton:And I knew it would work for the time. And she's like, oh. So I need to put this wig on. And she ran off on the show. And then she came off on the break. And I was sort of like sitting there like awkward, trying to like, ready to touch her up or go home or whatever. And she like looked over at me and she's like, everyone likes your wig. And then she carried on like talking to the contestants. And in that moment, it was like, oh, I did it. And then we had a great relationship after. But that moment was quite defining in my career because I very nearly just gave in to the fear. And I honestly probably would have not done a good job.

46:26Chris Appleton:I only had 20 minutes. If you'd left the voice. I would have had to go home. I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have been in America. I wouldn't have written a book. I wouldn't have done any of this stuff you've been talking about. I'd probably still be in Leicester and probably believe in everything everyone told me about myself. so I think sometimes you're just one decision away from a big change you know and they don't come up very often but you'd be surprised how much like that changed my life that defining moment of give sort of trust in myself well the truth is I didn't trust myself and I didn't believe in myself but Kate did and that's what I mean like she believed in me even when I didn't and and I'm really grateful for that because I wouldn't be here now without her but until I learned to do it for myself she got me through it if someone doesn't have a Kate in

47:09Olivia Attwood:their life and they're looking down the barrel of the gun and they they you know there's a kind of there's a do or die situation what would you what would your advice be to them to like if you've got you know you've got to talk to yourself and you've got to like you say

47:22Chris Appleton:just fucking go for it i think it's just connecting with like you know now like people can say what they want and i'm not i don't blow i don't blow over i think 10 years ago i would have you know if you go for a public breakup or if you go through um you know just anything on the internet people every time you do hear someone has an opinion or if you have an opinion on your face or your body when you're in the public eye people talk maybe once upon a time i would have been way more affected now i think because i have a good relationship with myself i can be triggered for a minute but then i can like be like it's cool like i know who i am yeah i think part of like the power of sort of being able to withstand those situations is doing the work to really be able to stop and i talk about this in the book and look in the mirror and not just glance and see that

48:09Olivia Attwood:thing that you see looking back at you all the time yeah but actually really look and see if

48:14Chris Appleton:you know when you look in the mirror if you're happy with what you see if you made the decision to look the way you look what your hair says about you the way you dress the way you do your makeup like did you make those decisions or were they made for you because once upon a time when you're a kid your mom told you you've got a big forehead and you need bangs or you know you need blonde hair your sister's the dog hair you're the shy one or you're the chubby one or you know things that we hear as kids and we carry it with us our whole lives without even realizing and if anything sort of feels off usually is and i think you have to do the work to truly sort of look inside who you are and how you want to portray yourself to the world you know what your goals and aspirations are and who you truly are and i think you have to work towards that like inside out it's not like you can just fix the outside like it's that's not real like i said a lot of the times in my life i've been allowed aligned on the outside and looked like i had it together but on the inside it's kind of broken and that's why you know things didn't work out in many situations in my life um but truly when you sort of do do the work now i can stop and i can look in the mirror i can still pull myself apart but i can also then be realistic and be like you're not so bad like proud of you You did good.

49:23Chris Appleton:You know, like I said to Kate at Christmas, we spent Christmas with the kids in the Cotswolds and we had these fireworks going off and it was a real moment of like, just significance in my life where I guess I got to this point. And I put my arm around her and said, you know, I did it. I did these things I said I was going to do, you know. And she said, I always knew you would. And I was like, I didn't. And she's like, I always knew you would, Chris. Like, because she saw me, like I say, when I didn't. And so fortunately enough, like I had a cape but if you don't like you know get a therapist get help talk to people open up to you know if even if you don't know what it is just start with that I something just feels off whatever it is I think you just have to start by pretend just just acknowledging like not everything's okay I don't know how to fix it but I'll start your book roots don't define you

50:11Olivia Attwood:which will be on sale in the UK when this goes to air yeah it talks about that in depth and it's kind of it's like a memoir but it also has a lot of like there's lots of like actionable stuff people can take away from it what would that book have meant to you when you were a teenager

50:25Chris Appleton:if someone had given you that book to read i think it would have just made me feel maybe seen more maybe able to help me stop and see myself i didn't i didn't think i ever really had the the power to stop and look and see myself i don't know i felt like that was like a hamster wheel of just like just auto autopilot like survival i was in survival for so much of my life

50:49Olivia Attwood:survival mode um it's not a healthy way to live no it's like you're surviving really yeah you're

50:57Chris Appleton:not living no and and now i hope i i live and i try and live authentically and god it's so much nicer you know it doesn't mean you have everything figured out at all life's still life but i know i'm happy i know i can sit at home on my own and not have to have someone around that's not right

51:13Olivia Attwood:for me you know i i think you know the obviously your your your career is hair and you know and that's and that's why people know you but in the last few years you've kind of made that shift where you are like from behind the scenes more to in front how are you navigating kind of coming in front of the camera and like being known in your own right and setting those boundaries of your personal life and and you know having an element of privacy what's that shift been like for you yeah it's interesting because i guess it has kind of flipped but i do think that's like

51:46Chris Appleton:evolve however evolve i think it's really important to evolve in life and so many people get stuck in one i don't want to be i'm not i'm not doing the things i did when i was 30 or 20 because i'm not there anymore that person isn't there anymore i grew up i'm not trying to look like i did when i was 21 because i'm 42 now and i i'm happy with that i think it's natural to grow and i think i've done so much so many different versions of hair i wanted to evolve for example doing the book like to help more people so all right you don't look like jaylo or kim but this is how yeah i wanted more people to feel like they could have a piece of like sitting in my chair and going through the process of i think what works um and then i think like you know people start to follow you they get invested in your life they're interested in who you're dating or what you're wearing or you know and i i think i'm okay with it just because if i can help people that to me feels like something that has always been something i'm passionate about so i think as long as i feel like i can help people or inspire people or have awkward conversations that maybe people haven't had or are scared to have if it makes anyone feel less alone then that for me is like growth and i really like that and you know the whole conversational things yeah it's hard when people are talking about your life on the internet.

53:03Chris Appleton:Do you give it much air time?

53:05Olivia Attwood:Do you read stuff people say about you? Or do you...

53:07Chris Appleton:I'll see stuff sometimes. You know, I kind of laugh. I saw something the other day, like, why is Chris Evans' head so big? I'm like, ask my friend. My friend said...

53:16Olivia Attwood:Well, like, metaphorically or physically? I'm like,

53:19Chris Appleton:have I got a big head? Because a couple of people said I've got a massive head. They're like, no, it's normal. I'm like, all right, maybe I was bloated. I don't know. But you know, it's like, or i don't know but oh his face is ruined like he used to look like i'm not 21 anymore i don't know like i've got a bigger face because i'm a man well i get people throwing me pictures of me

53:39Olivia Attwood:in love island when i'm like 24 and be like you look so much younger in love island because i fucking was a decade ago bitch yeah exactly like what do you want from me exactly yeah

53:49Chris Appleton:shut it what do you look like so i kind of laugh you know sometimes people say stuff and i think it's kind of funny but that's only because i know who i am now like i say i'm like more comfortable with me i'm which is really powerful i really love that and i want that for everyone to feel like they're aligned internally externally like it's it's really powerful thing um and i think sometimes people are really dark i saw someone write on someone's page over there i hope you get cancer and i thought wow that person's really sad like welcome to the internet totally but i think they're right about it in the book as well as a chapter about envy and i think i've always tried to be i don't know i call myself spongebob squarepants i've tried to just be like a sponge and absorb from people because i'm a student like i feel like watching people like i have the luxury of being with some of the most famous women in the world and they create business and empires like i'm always watching and learning and growing from that and i'm so grateful to do that and envy is a really dangerous thing because i think a lot of people can find jealousy like you go online someone's got an amazing body they've got great hair they seem to have the perfect relationship or it's so easy to be triggered but i usually try and look at like all right well obviously feel a way about this person and as something i want that they've got how can i work towards that what is how did they do it how did they get that and using them more as an inspiration or as a rather than sort of an idol rather than getting going the other way which is dark green envy where those roots sink in and you can make a real miserable person you like you said

55:16Olivia Attwood:you have worked with and you are friends with some of the most famous women in the world like Ariana Grande, Adele. I mean, you and Kim Kardashian, your client, like talent, stylist relationships, probably one of the most famous ones in the history of this industry. What have you sort of learned from those women about navigating, like you say, that being an idol, all idols in their own way, JLo, what's something they have in common that like, if you're a star that makes them stars of who they are. Do you know what I mean? I think it's just... It's like an aura. Is there like a... How do they navigate that?

55:52I think, like, no matter who you are,

55:55Chris Appleton:I don't think it matters how famous or rich you get, life is life.

55:58Olivia Attwood:Yeah.

55:59Chris Appleton:When it gets us all. And I think it's how, when you get knocked down, you pick yourself up and dust yourself off and, you know, move forward. I think there's, you know, it takes a lot of resilience and I don't know, I think that for me is... really powerful to see not everything works you know like just even when watching kim when she created skims it was called kimono first and she like scrapped the whole thing and changed like not everything works out it's okay like don't resist change so many people resist change you see women like with dark hair like and they're like 60 and pure gray and they just stick to this box dye because it's just like they were dark when they were 21 and it's like they're just stuck yeah whereas in actual fact like your hair's gray now but also your skin changes with age skin tone changes with age your eyes everything changes so it's a natural fact it doesn't suit you anymore like even if you try and hold on to the past like life moves on you got to move with it you know and i think the flow of that is feeling comfortable with change is really powerful whereas i think resisting it is it can keep you really stagnant when you're working with clients

57:07Olivia Attwood:at this level and people of that stature like kim j-lo you it's so much more than just her isn't it like you're part of their very core people they trust you're in their intimate space you see them first thing in the morning like what goes into sort of becoming part of someone's team like a kim kardashian like what what's if people are listening they're like i want to work with celebrities like i want to be you know doing met galas what would be your advice to them of like the difference between that and sort of working with someone in a regular but yeah

57:40Chris Appleton:yeah uh i think it's just different uh dynamics i think if you want to do something like you know that professionally i think sell the sizzle not the sausage like why is someone going to book you because most people will send people's instagram as like a bio like oh you should work with this person they'll send their instagram making sure that like how you present yourself on social media represents who you are and what you do if you're good at color what are you good at blondes reds what's your speciality show your speciality like kim said to me once i know when you've done jlo's hair i can tell i said how and she said it's the finish you get to hair so it's one of the things that i think my work represents is like no matter what it is it always has like a quality to the hair and even if it's a messy style it has like a luxness to it because that's kind of the hair i like and i kind of got known for reinventing changing people and doing different things because that's again just what i like i don't like doing repetitive stuff so i think like trying to make sure that you use the platforms you have to be recognized because jaylo saw me and i was in leicester and she was in la and i wasn't anyone i had 4 000 followers or whatever i didn't maybe 400 followers but people do look so making sure that you know you're ready for it when they do did you go to super bowl not just here i did i went to the super bowl i've been a few times and i did jaylo for the super bowl i was on the field at half time.

58:58Chris Appleton:That was a real fun experience.

59:00Olivia Attwood:I was going to be really cheeky and ask you about Lewis Hamilton. Not that you would tell me. Are they dating?

59:05Chris Appleton:Oh, I don't know. Why ask me? It's worth a shot. What would I know?

59:09Olivia Attwood:Worth a shot. Working with big stars, working with like powerful people in general and you talk about setting boundaries, have you ever got to a point where you might walk off a job? Have you ever been...

59:20Chris Appleton:No, I'm not that dramatic.

59:21Olivia Attwood:You're not? You've never been somewhere and been like, I feel like I'm being disrespected or... No, not really.

59:26Chris Appleton:I think, you know, I'm pretty real like you know even you know sometimes

59:30Olivia Attwood:I can't imagine you now knowing you from just literally this conversation you've had being that phase by someone who's like a diva or I can't imagine it rattling you

59:39Chris Appleton:no I think I'm pretty good at making people smile I don't know like I like to try and find the fun in things you know yeah I don't know I think life doesn't take it too seriously like I'm doing hair I'm not doing heart transplants you know I think you're there to like I'm there to bring the sparkles so like I don't know I just try and fly with that

59:56Olivia Attwood:you've done like Vogue covers you've done Met Galas you've done Red Carpets actually talking about celebrities I loved I heard you recently talking about the glam bot controversy with JLo when they were saying she was like short with the guy who was doing the glam bot on the Red Carpet and you the way you explained it I was like having done Red Carpets myself not on the not getting the attention that JLo is getting they are very stressful and I thought it was really interesting the way you gave that inside perspective of like actually when you're there and people are screaming at you and like you've got to hit all these different press points it's not necessarily that someone is being rude they're just going for the motions you know things i think people

1:00:34Chris Appleton:like to take the thing is with the internet people take clips and make a decision from it people do it to me all the time like oh he looks rude he did that and i'm like oh my god it was

1:00:42Olivia Attwood:like a one second interaction i just was like talking to some you know what i mean like people

1:00:47Chris Appleton:love to kind of take that like even you know red carpets are so just like when i'm on a carpet i think i'm pretty i'm used to the noise now to ignore it and was like let's do what i want to whereas I'll do carpets with Kitty, my daughter and she'll come with me and they're like, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty Open your eyes, smile Yeah, it's pretty intimidating And I'll just ignore them Ignore them, ignore them If they want the picture, they'll get the picture It's fine, just do you But when Press can be quite aggressive You scream That's because they're just trying to get their picture They're doing their job But they're like, hey

1:01:24Olivia Attwood:you know and it can just be overstimulating yeah it's a lot of noise so like you know but i think um do you remember your first red carpet you escorted someone to uh what does that mean like when you like like as in like you were there like as the doing hair like you were on the carpet with them not as in like you were walking it probably read someone like i'm in my first red carpet picture of myself the wrong word but like yeah like i'm not security babe i do hair

1:01:52Chris Appleton:I don't know although sometimes

1:01:54Olivia Attwood:hair and makeup do look like security when they're like standing with them follow me miss

1:01:59Chris Appleton:but there's this picture of me and I look it taunts me it's selling the internet and I'm like because you look so like I'm like big eyes and I look shocked as fuck what's your worst red carpet picture you must have a really bad one I've got an awful one

1:02:14Olivia Attwood:just like and this is like I mean just after Love Island obviously like I was finding you know my started I don't know if I should find it.

1:02:22Chris Appleton:What's the picture? Describe it. You know it.

1:02:25Olivia Attwood:Okay, the worst one ever is not necessarily a red carpet. It was like a mini red carpet for an event. And I had under-eye powder that wasn't knocked off.

1:02:35Chris Appleton:That one. That powder's a fucker. It's got a few people. It was the MAC. Yes, and it reflected from that. To the eye, nothing.

1:02:42Olivia Attwood:It looked like I had my face in the cocaine bag. It was like two big white rings. And I remember my agent, she goes, I think she took a picture on her phone. and she was like, I think your powder's like, like flashing back. And then there was a few paps, like I said, it wasn't a red carpet, a carpet, but we were like, can we, it's like, if I got white powder under my eyes and they both, they're all looking going, no, fine, you're fine. And obviously being coy back then and not like now, I'd probably be a bit more pushy, but can I look? But I just left it and then like an hour later,

1:03:10Chris Appleton:Do you remember when Angelina Jolie had it? I can't, vaguely. It's the white powder. There was an Angelina Jolie one.

1:03:14Olivia Attwood:But you can't see it to the naked eye, so it's so dangerous. a certain powder wasn't it i think it was the mac do you know the one the mac it was a it was like it was meant to be it was invisible on the skin but the flash of the camera would like bounce off it so that was one of my worst and then just a lot of ill-fitting clothing my hair used to be cat piss yellow like when i was in my blonde era and i used to look i'd look like some photos a ton of would have been great i i was i went with kitty to an awards in la and i think because i was so focused on kitty yeah i was like all about her looking at her she's your daughter you're like i want her to look perfect she's my baby and you know when you're like

1:03:52Chris Appleton:stressed and hot and i was trying to help her with her dress and i was like looking down and i just bleached my hair and it all like fell forward and then they were like she was like she looked amazing she's all this like rick orange dress she looks sensational and i had this like saint laurent suit on and i think the model had his hands in like the pockets i like it was like baggy though so i put my hands in the pocket and like pulled it out and my hair is like falling which made my face just look huge and white and i had oh i had this makeup artist and she put so much makeup on me i had more makeup on than like anyone ever like it was heavy heavy heavy i didn't realize and i was like should we take it down i'll get a little like you know you don't know so i was like whatever like cool oh my god these pictures and i remember everyone like looked to them and they were like you know when you know it's bad because you know most people go you look good and i remember showing people and they were like you need someone to be honest yeah oh no people couldn't and they were like and i remember sending i got sops at even to my therapist because i was like is this one a lot because i just look fucking nuts yeah and he was pissing himself he was laughing yeah he was laughing it was that bad i was like he was like I remember like Kitty you're so selfish I was like you let me go out like why didn't you tell me nothing like a good red carpet picture to make you question your whole life

1:05:11Olivia Attwood:and it's kind of humbling they're HD cameras

1:05:12Chris Appleton:they're made for football not for fucking faces

1:05:14Olivia Attwood:it's fucking illegal you don't have to see it

1:05:16Chris Appleton:that fucking zoomed in and like the cameras

1:05:19Olivia Attwood:TV cameras they're brutal and I think sometimes I watch myself on TV I'm like do I look like that in real life

1:05:24Chris Appleton:oh all the time

1:05:25Olivia Attwood:is that how I look and everyone's like no and I'm like so I look bad on there they're like no but you just look better in real life I'm like yeah fair do you like yourself

1:05:32Chris Appleton:on the front camera or the back camera?

1:05:33Olivia Attwood:Of the phone? Yeah. Back.

1:05:35Chris Appleton:Right? Can't take a selfie. I hate it. Oh, is that how you see yourself? Do you like the one where you see yourself in the mirror? I prefer someone

1:05:41Olivia Attwood:taking a photo of me than a selfie.

1:05:45Chris Appleton:So you like the real you?

1:05:47Olivia Attwood:Do you think?

1:05:48Chris Appleton:Well, whatever the real me is underneath you. I like taking the selfie version because that's what I see in the mirror, the reflection, but it's actually flipped. So when it's flipped, I'm like, do I look like that?

1:05:58Olivia Attwood:Yeah, it's like it does something. and then seeing yourself as well from the angles on TV and pictures that you no one really should see themselves from all those angles it does get in your head talking of Kitty she's in LA with you the kids are both in LA yeah

1:06:12Chris Appleton:but they've got their own thing going on Kitty's

1:06:15Olivia Attwood:I mean they're both gorgeous you must be proud

1:06:18Chris Appleton:yeah Billy's at uni I'm so proud of both of them they're incredible you know I'm very proud of who they've become even though like everything me and Kate went through I think we did a good job they're great people you know they're both settled in relationships they're living their best lives exploring and you know I'm very proud of who they are it's my greatest achievement you know me and Kate are so proud of them for sure

1:06:39Olivia Attwood:London well England versus the States yeah what do you miss about England

1:06:46Chris Appleton:um I miss

1:06:47Olivia Attwood:you split now like you've got your house in the Cotswolds and like you're

1:06:51Chris Appleton:in the States my main base is LA but you know I come back a lot more now and I have more freedom to come back more now yes like just doing my own projects and doing different you know tv shows and stuff it kind of brings me back because at a time would you were you like with

1:07:03Olivia Attwood:kim like seven days a week how like how all-consuming of having those kind of clients

1:07:09Chris Appleton:like yeah i was with someone seven days we was like just traveling between j-lo kim mariana like

1:07:14Olivia Attwood:so you didn't really have much time to call your own no but i think you know it's important like

1:07:19Chris Appleton:i say to evolve like i love i still love doing that but like you know i'm doing the met ball and i've got like you know the vanity fair or you know like these big things that are really important you know whereas you know i don't necessarily do every blowout you know now and it's just i've got contracts and you know just life grows and you you grow and like and were

1:07:38Olivia Attwood:you nervous about not being available for every blowout or do you got to that point in your career you knew they'd support you and you know you could do you know what i mean like i think we had some stage and glam like you know stylist they don't want to be not available for any job because if someone gets in there they're going to take my spot yeah i felt like that always you know

1:07:58Chris Appleton:I think you always feel like that. But at the same time, I also think I know myself well enough to know what I do is, I think I have a point of difference. And that's, you know, sort of what I do. And I kind of keep that with me. And like I said, it's not as though I'm not doing it. I just don't do it as much. You don't do every single one. Because, you know, I have other things. You know, and also, like, I think the clients I work with are really happy for me and proud to see me, you know, do different things. And they support me, like, with the book and people post it. And, you know, Kim texted me during the whole book tour.

1:08:25Chris Appleton:And she's like, you know, I just let you know I'm seeing everything and everything looks great. I'm so proud of you. It's so good to see you bringing this out and help more people. And like, you know, it's great to have supportive people and friends and, you know, clients. And that's really amazing. You know, I think it's special.

1:08:39Olivia Attwood:Right. I'm going to do a little game with you if you're up for it.

1:08:42Chris Appleton:Yeah, I love games.

1:08:43Olivia Attwood:We're going to do a little Ultimate A-List phone book game.

1:08:47Chris Appleton:Yeah.

1:08:48Olivia Attwood:So just comes to your mind. I'm going to give you a scenario and you've got your phone and you can ring one of your famous gals, or boys who would you call if you got arrested

1:08:59Chris Appleton:arrested oh god is it not Kim

1:09:03Olivia Attwood:she's basically a lawyer

1:09:06Chris Appleton:I'm embarrassed she'd be like what what are you doing um

1:09:14Olivia Attwood:you can tell me anyone doesn't have to yeah Kim okay

1:09:19Chris Appleton:who would you call

1:09:20Olivia Attwood:for relationship advice oh god

1:09:23Chris Appleton:um um um um um

1:09:29kim fashion advice i just wouldn't he would be so embarrassed what to be like can you help

1:09:36Chris Appleton:pictures to jenny before kia i've sent both pictures to my what do you think to this like i'm probably sending it to everyone i'm not sending it all well i love an opinion what do you think to this um multiple who would you call if you needed some brutal honesty Martha Stewart

1:09:52Olivia Attwood:really

1:09:53Chris Appleton:she gave it to me I love Martha I just act like she's so nice so sweet

1:09:57Olivia Attwood:what about someone you need to keep a secret for you who's good at keeping a secret everyone

1:10:03Chris Appleton:they're all

1:10:04Olivia Attwood:I'm sure that I mean it's a kind of trust yeah how important is that trust though when you're of course

1:10:09Chris Appleton:it's everything it's everything I mean I hate it my pet peeve is like I don't like people that

1:10:16Olivia Attwood:don't get me on my soapbox i i attract them so yeah beacon for compulsive i think certain people do but at

1:10:23Chris Appleton:like you know like for me i just am a pretty straight up person and i think honesty is if you start on a lie it just it's never gonna go anywhere it's not real the foundation for

1:10:35Olivia Attwood:whatever you have whether it's a friendship or date like dating working relationship it's like you say it has no substance it doesn't and does it ever can you ever really repair it i don't know

1:10:44Chris Appleton:not if it's a lie i mean i think not unless people actively like because it's okay to say sorry or like oh i won't do it again but i think it's less if someone tends to be a certain way unless someone is whatever it is if you're a liar if you're a cheat or whatever it is if you are not doing active work to try and change that it's probably not going to change it might change for a minute just to keep you happy or just to settle the piece but you know i think change really takes it's a lot of work and a lot of consistency and that means like therapy and getting help

1:11:16Olivia Attwood:and doing the uncomfortable stuff. There's so many resources now.

1:11:18Chris Appleton:You know, there's resources even just on Ask ChatGBT. I mean, Ask it everything. Imagine if ChatGBT's history comes out.

1:11:26Olivia Attwood:Please. I don't use it at the moment. What?

1:11:28Chris Appleton:Why?

1:11:29Olivia Attwood:I don't know.

1:11:30Chris Appleton:Ask it anything. It's great. I just feel like

1:11:32Olivia Attwood:everyone knows I'm resisting AI. Why? I don't know. Something about it. I don't like it. I can't explain it. I feel... It gets to know you.

1:11:39Chris Appleton:It's really weird.

1:11:40Olivia Attwood:I don't want it to.

1:11:41Chris Appleton:Really? Well, it already does. It's already listening to a conversation.

1:11:44Olivia Attwood:Do you know what it is?

1:11:44Chris Appleton:Do you ever talk about something and you go on Instagram and you're like, oh, there's an ad for it? Oh, yeah, all the time.

1:11:48Olivia Attwood:Yeah, and that freaks you the fuck out. Do you know what it is with ChatGBT? Especially doing the telework, I'm worried that if I rely on it too much, I'll become, my personality will go, or I'll become stupid. It's really weird. I don't ask you for stuff. Some people I know are literally doing... Tell me what to say. Yeah, like asking, like writing their messages for dating apps. I'm like, come on. Like, this can't be where we're going. This is like, cannot.

1:12:16Chris Appleton:Sometimes I'll ask you a question, what does this mean? Why does this mean? That's good.

1:12:19Olivia Attwood:I mean, I'm just, I'm just, maybe I'm like a boomer chap in a millennial body. Sometimes it's wrong.

1:12:24Chris Appleton:Sometimes it's not even right anyway.

1:12:25Olivia Attwood:And also, if you re-ask the question, doesn't it change the answer anyway?

1:12:28Chris Appleton:Yeah, I'll be like, you're wrong. And they're like, sorry, Chris. Fuck you. Yeah. I'm like, it's okay, but we're breaking up.

1:12:34Olivia Attwood:I would talk to you all day and all night. but unfortunately that's not an option. I've got a question for you. No, go on then. I love it when guests do this.

1:12:43Chris Appleton:What is your toxic trait? Because I ask this on all dating. I think it's healthy to ask. Do you know what it is? Should I tell you mine?

1:12:54Olivia Attwood:Yeah, go on.

1:12:54Chris Appleton:I'll go first. Mine is thinking I can, or wanting to fix people, like being, like I always kind of like was that kind of person that like, oh, love's enough if we just, you know that will always but I also realise that love isn't enough that's the reality of it

1:13:10Olivia Attwood:the love isn't enough thing I think I've always been really aware really?

1:13:16Chris Appleton:I was just a real hopeless romantic

1:13:17Olivia Attwood:I think I knew about it but I don't think I realised how real it is until like more recently but my toxic trait I think that my therapist actually shone the light on me for when I was ranting and raving about something one day and this doesn't mean that I feel like I should you should accept anything from anyone but not expecting everyone to live the way you live. So I'm very like, I like to get up a half five. I like to go to the gym. I like don't. I have an issue of resting, right? Totally. So he's like, so if your partner wants to learn the sofa and watch a film, it doesn't mean they're like a bone-idle slob.

1:13:49Olivia Attwood:They just know how to rest and you don't. Whereas I think I reflect a lot of my stuff onto people. And he's like, you've got your set of rules how you live life. And you can't expect other people, like your friends and your colleagues, to live the way you live.

1:14:02Chris Appleton:Yeah.

1:14:02Olivia Attwood:Because maybe they want to be happy. what's your um are you anxious attachment or um uh or avoidant attachment um anxious attachment but then i'm also i'm kind of a conflict i'm kind of conflicted because i'm very adhd so i'm quite

1:14:19Chris Appleton:out of sight out of mind as well oh really so you dance between the two yeah it's quite so i can be quite obsessive but then i say if i'm away for work i'm switch out yeah i feel like i i kind of

1:14:31Olivia Attwood:almost can't access. That's a very typical ADHD thing. It's almost like my life, my partner, I have to almost like, which is good, makes me good for my job, but like for relationships, it's not great.

1:14:42Chris Appleton:And what's your love language?

1:14:45Olivia Attwood:Expensive gifts. Is it? No. Acts of service.

1:14:50Chris Appleton:Oh, you like people doing stuff for you?

1:14:51Olivia Attwood:People doing what they say they're going to do. I don't need the words of... Really? You don't like words?

1:14:57Chris Appleton:What about touch?

1:14:58Olivia Attwood:No, don't touch me.

1:15:00Chris Appleton:Really? yeah I don't not at all

1:15:02Olivia Attwood:ever like honestly the idea of having sex with someone and them cuddling me afterwards makes me want to just like scream

1:15:10Chris Appleton:what the fuck

1:15:12Olivia Attwood:I don't

1:15:12Chris Appleton:I love a cuddle after sex after all of that like intensity and passion and like no no

1:15:21Olivia Attwood:don't look at me just like you can look at me what about look you in the eye during sex yeah like that

1:15:27Chris Appleton:oh well that's kind of like a hug

1:15:28Olivia Attwood:but I don't want to be like yeah I'm not cuddly but it's acts of service but it's like someone's saying someone's saying what they're going to do and doing it my biggest thing is like oh I was going to do this for you wait if you have sex

1:15:38Chris Appleton:and then someone goes to hug her you're like no thank you

1:15:40Olivia Attwood:I just feel like I don't feel like I want to cuddle

1:15:43Chris Appleton:you're not generally a cuddler

1:15:45Olivia Attwood:no

1:15:45Chris Appleton:so you wouldn't sit on the sofa oh my god

1:15:47Olivia Attwood:everyone who knows me when if I have a down day Sarah's like oh my god can I approach and cuddle and just don't know really so sometimes when I'm really weak like if I'm tired they'll get me and they're compromising and they'll cuddle me but I'm not it's not my it doesn't do you like to cuddle that in general are you tactile

1:16:05Chris Appleton:yeah I think physical touch is one of mine like just connection like yeah I like that that's really interesting it's like

1:16:11Olivia Attwood:my thing that makes me feel someone's like consistency they say they're going to be somewhere that's going to do it and do it

1:16:16Chris Appleton:yeah totally

1:16:18Olivia Attwood:we live in hope

1:16:19Chris Appleton:well thank you for answering my questions thank you for answering me sounds like you know what you're doing

1:16:23Olivia Attwood:you know yourself I'm having a go I'm having a bash

1:16:25Chris Appleton:well we were figuring it out but you know yourself I know myself better now some people ask those questions and they're like oh I've never been asked this before you know like it's quite interesting where people are at because I think I have done a lot of work on myself so I'm quite aware and so I'm going into something wanting to be with someone that is also aware of themselves and people don't know I'm like wow you've probably got some catching up to do because I think I'm pretty layered like I think I you know I've been many things in my life but I know where I'm at and not everyone does so I think it's always an interesting dating question

1:16:51Olivia Attwood:it's a good question

1:16:52Chris Appleton:it also opens up a conversation yeah

1:16:56Olivia Attwood:if you're going to refer someone to the house I love to ask my guests this, to sit in your seat. Who should I interview next? Who should I invite to the house?

1:17:07Chris Appleton:Oh, you should have Martha Stewart. She's really interesting.

1:17:10Olivia Attwood:I would love to have Martha Stewart.

1:17:13Chris Appleton:I went on a podcast. She's so nice. She's really sweet. And I find her very... She's fascinating. I think she's 85. I can't believe it. She's so sharp. So interesting. Dynamic. Or Bethany Frankel.

1:17:25Olivia Attwood:I have to say, I've been following you two. I followed you to having like a while of time in Miami not long ago and I was laughing a lot you were out doing like day drinks and she documents her own life on TikTok so well

1:17:39Chris Appleton:so well yeah she kills it and it's truly who she is she puts all these influences

1:17:43Olivia Attwood:to shame she's like on it

1:17:46Chris Appleton:yeah she'll just pick the phone up and I'll be like really from Angleman

1:17:49Olivia Attwood:she's like

1:17:50Chris Appleton:she's like yeah don't do it again like you're faking it then I'm like okay

1:17:53Olivia Attwood:yeah you know like when she's just like literally like spilling her brain thoughts onto TikTok you know that that's like you can just tell it's the first time she's just filmed it it takes a very confident person

1:18:01Chris Appleton:to do that for sure she's an amazing person for sure

1:18:03Olivia Attwood:I'd love to have her your book is out now

1:18:06Chris Appleton:yeah you can buy it from linking my bio it's at yourrootsidentifyyou.com

1:18:11Olivia Attwood:yourrootsidentify.com

1:18:12Chris Appleton:and you can get it from Waterstones Waterstones

1:18:15Olivia Attwood:it's a very British

1:18:16Chris Appleton:you can get it on Audible if you want to listen to my voice

1:18:19Olivia Attwood:that'll be me that was really hard for me to do

1:18:21Chris Appleton:because I'm dyslexic I'm like the the chapter how long does it take

1:18:25Olivia Attwood:to actually read a whole book like that

1:18:27Chris Appleton:I did it in a week. But then I kept falling out with a woman that was in my ear. She said, you said it backwards. I'm like, I'm dyslexic. What do you want from me? Post-traumatic stress, being back at school.

1:18:36Olivia Attwood:That's what the book's about.

1:18:37Chris Appleton:You're saying it wrong. And I'm like, I know. I flip my words sometimes. I'll do it again. And she's like, that doesn't sound right. I'm like, put more energy into it. I'm like, I was doing like eight chapters a day. I was like, this is a lot of reading. Because I don't know what it's about reading. But like, it makes me get tired.

1:18:54Olivia Attwood:I think that's the dyslexia as well. Because your brain's working so well.

1:18:57Chris Appleton:hard totally it was it was quite it was quite an event but i'm really proud of it i'm really proud because it's it's part of my life that i think maybe people don't know about that they will relate to but also i think there's a lot of humor in it and there's just a lot of help of like all right you know you feel off maybe there is something off and anyone that's ever looked in the mirror and thought is this it then the book's for you and it's great just to know that it's never too late to make you come back and i think a lot of people think it's too late over the age day they think oh that's a good i can't change i'm stuck and you really can i mean there's power in you know just knowing and i think when you get that knowledge it's it's really amazing some of the changes you can make to have a better quality of life you know you're here for such a short

1:19:38Olivia Attwood:time you might not enjoy it so true thank you for being so candid and funny and open chris afton everybody

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