ALEX HONNOLD: ONE Interview Before Free-Soloing Taiwan’s Tallest Building LIVE (This Episode Will Change Your Relationship with FEAR)

27:55So I think most health experts would say three to seven minutes in there is amazing. But then people would be like, I was in there for 15 minutes, but it's almost like it doesn't, it's not that active after the seven minutes because your body's regulated and now it's not a challenge or a shock anymore. And after 20, you're dead. So, you know, it's like no real benefit. but it's not actually happened. So has there ever been anything you're like, I really want to climb that, but actually it's too risky and I wouldn't even bother. Like you said, you bailed. Okay. So actually, so in the context of the building, so when the idea of common skyscraper for a live thing came up, you know, whatever, 12 years ago or something, when we first scouted the first thing I scouted was the Burj Khalifa.

28:32It was just the tallest building in the world. And it's possible you can climb it. I mean, I was able to do the moves on it, but it's a, it's cutting edge. Basically. It's like very, very hard. And how high did you get? I could climb the building with a rope, you know, I could climb the outside, but it's just very hard. And also it's hard in the wrong ways. It's like very slippery and very, very finicky. Like you could imagine just slipping off at any moment. So basically I was kind of like, it was kind of like the El Cap of free soloing or something. I was like, sure, if I devoted myself to this, I like moved to Dubai and just like lived on this building.

29:02It's like, yeah, it's possible. You know, like it can physically be done with the proper commitment and everything. But for a TV program, and I was like, no, this is crazy. Like I'd actually started thinking about, um, using like a, like a D-Day style parachute, you know, like old school military parachutes, like a modern parachute is like a wing has a direction to it. So it's actually not that helpful for something like a building. Cause you'd have to be able to get a clean exit away from the building and turn away from it and face the correct direction. Because if you're, if you deployed your parachute and you went into the building, you just crumple and collapse and die.

29:32So anyway, but so like a drop parachute, just like an old school, like what you imagine like GI Joe using that just goes straight down. when I was playing on the Burge, I was kind of like, well, maybe I'd use something like that because then if, you know, you did slip, at least you could just basically plummet straight down the face of the building. Like it might kind of be okay. You know, you, maybe you break your ankle at the bottom, but you're not going to die. And so, you know, I started considering ideas like that. I was like, this is all crazy. This is too much. Like this is too extreme basically.

29:57And so, I mean, that's an example of a climb where I'm like, yeah, it's possible. Like somebody could do it, but it's just way outside what I think is reasonable. Um, but then when I went and scouted Type 0101, it's kind of like, oh, it has all the same features of a striking building that's like the biggest thing in the whole landscape. It's amazing. But the style of climbing is way more secure. Like the things that you're grabbing are way less slippery and the shape of them works better. Like you just hold on better. I was just like, oh, this is the type of challenge I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah.

30:27That makes a lot of sense. I wonder whether now after this, they're going to start building buildings for you to climb. That's what's going to happen. I don't think architects even, I don't even think it crosses their mind like what humans can hold on the outside because it's interesting I mean some buildings are just completely impossible because they're just smooth metal and glass and then other buildings are like a ladder you know it's almost like a jungle gym where it's like too easy it's kind of trivial like anybody could walk up and do it if they wanted to yes like the New York Times building in uh in in uh New York City has been climbed by a handful of random people and like some just random dude off the street just climbed like half the building because it's like a scaffolding basically they're kind of like well well, that's not the challenge that I'm looking for because I've spent my whole life practicing this thing.

31:06I want to do something that's hard enough that it feels meaningful to me.

31:18On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hari Kondabolu, comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m. On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health. But also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50 % of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

31:58Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride, so tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Kelly, and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow. And I'm Telma, also known as Aunt Rachel. If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters. Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years, but both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters.

32:40Did you know that we were one of the longest-running sitcoms with the Black cast? When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled with joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget. Oh, girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black. All black people know about the look. On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Thelma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

33:18On this week's episode of The Next Chapter, I, T.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dives deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the Spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you.

34:09Listen to the next chapter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast episodes drop weekly.

34:27How do you prepare for a climb? So you scout it out, but how do you, how do you then prepare? Like, how are you preparing right now for? Yeah, I actually just started all my training type stuff for it. It's funny. I did the scout in September because I have to do it far enough out to, you know, assemble the crew and plan the filming and all that kind of stuff. And so, and it was funny because I was super psyched at the time where like you go and scout and you're like, God, this is so cool. I'm so excited. Like I want to do this next week. You know, I'm like, let's do this. I'm ready. But then I kind of had to just sit on it for, you know, a couple of months just because it's scheduled for January.

34:58And so, and so now sort of two and a half months out, I've started like properly training. You just don't want to start like really training too far out because then you'll just get like injured and tired. And, you know, it's like, you kind of want to peak at the right time. And so, yeah, I'm just, I don't know, like all the, all the ways, you know, I'm going to train, like eating really well, sleeping really well, exercising a tremendous amount and just kind of trying to ramp up my volume so that I feel incredibly fit when the time comes. And that's so interesting that you said you have to peak at the right time.

35:25So have you learned how to do that over time? I assume, because in my head, I'm thinking, oh wait for something this big you'd prepare six months in advance but i love what you're saying actually yeah yeah like a training block normally you can only sustain say three to six weeks of hard effort before you kind of need like a deload time like basically you can only build for a certain amount of time and then you need some kind of natural rest and then you can start building again and so ideally you sort of like naturally build up over time but if you were say six months out from an event you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated like i'm going to train really hard for a month but then rest for like a week or two and then train really hard you know you need like a complicated plan in this case i have a relatively simple plan in that i'm basically just ramping until the building and uh i kind of started my training maybe a little prematurely i was all psyched and so i think i'm going to take a little deload time around christmas which actually works perfectly with the holidays and things because i think i'll basically wind up doing six weeks or so and then have like a week at christmas where i kind of chill and then do another three or four weeks and then do the thing you sound just like us alex no well it's just seems it was all kind of perfectly you know i think it should be perfect but we'll see so far so far i'm responding well and feel really strong and yes it's great i love hearing that i'm excited to see it like i i'm so i'm so thrilled it's to do it live is just you know you're giving us a real treat like i think you know it's interesting though because like for me the live thing doesn't if anything it makes it more chill because normally when you shoot a documentary you go and you do the thing and then you have to go back and film on it and you have to shoot pickups and shoot audio and like do all this extra work basically and so you know it's this tremendous amount of effort but for the live event i'm kind of like i'm gonna go and i'm gonna do it and then i'm gonna fly home and i'm done it's totally amazing it's like as soon as i do the climb i'm totally done yeah i'm like no but for us it's more fun because we get to be there with you yeah yeah but i just don't you know i basically don't totally care yeah you know about like other people's experience like because oh you don't oh so well i mean not really you know oh interesting okay sort of like if it was a film about it like that'd be fine for me too the live thing basically i want to i want to do a climb that i'm proud of like i'm excited about climbing it and the way other people experience that i'm kind of like you know yeah i mean i don't want to say i don't care because i want other people to have you know a good time from it but like you know that's not the priority you know what i mean yeah i love it well you just do it because you love it yeah i mean that's that's kind of the thing and i think yeah that's brilliant what a great place i think everyone wants to live that way you do it because you love it it doesn't really matter yeah it's funny like when it first got announced as a project there was uh you know the sort of expected online hate and stuff from people in the climbing community being like why would you do that that's stupid why climb building it's too risky or like uh you know like whatever you know criticism for various reasons but i was kind of like man wait till you see the thing it's so cool it's so fun you know if you had the opportunity to do this you would do it too because like any climber would say yes to this because it's super fun and any you know like getting an opportunity to do something amazing it's like why would you ever say no to that but my goal for the you know if i can say i have a goal for the building i mean other than climbing it is just to actually have fun doing it because i'm kind of like that's what i want people to see from it like this is awesome you know not like some death-defying stunt it should be like this is amazing like this is so fun this is joyous you know yeah absolutely we'll see yeah i love how playful you make it because appealing to that part i think we can all relate to that when it was just when it was playful when it was exciting when it was yeah i know it's like that's the thing is it gets wrapped in all this like it's extreme and you're kind of like yes i mean yes it's very high consequence like if i make a mistake if i totally botched something i could die and you're like yeah that's you don't want to downplay that too much but at the same time it's pretty fun and the thing is that those are the same consequences if i don't pay attention when i'm driving or like whatever else there are plenty of other things you do in life where if you botch it you're gonna die and yet people take some of those things for granted is like, oh, that's just normal life.

39:14You're kind of like, well, you know, it's like you got to be intentional around where you're taking your risks. Yeah. Do you think that's a helpful mindset when you are doing things as well to recognize it, to see it more as, I guess, grounded in real and normal in terms of when you're processing things? Is that a helpful mindset? What do you mean? Like even just the way you describe it, which I agree with, you're like, yeah, well, there's crazy risk in this as well. And you're right, like in driving, for example, and texting and, you know, all that kind of stuff or drink driving or whatever. Yeah.

39:45Drinking and driving to me is the thing. People are always like, oh, climbing seems dangerous. And you're like, well, the thing with climbing is at least you're choosing the risks that you're taking. And obviously I'm training for them. I'm preparing for them. You know, I have, I have like imagery of the building at home so I can visualize the moves, you know, like there's a lot that goes into it. Whereas people go out and party on a Friday night and then they drive home and they're like, what else? You know, it's just a Friday I'm partying. And you're like, well, those you're taking a tremendous amount of risk sort of unintentionally.

40:11same with texting and driving too yeah i mean and those are the types of things where you're like you know it's like if you're not choosing to take those risks uh i don't know i mean i think that's kind of worse yeah talk to me about the visualization because i'm such a big fan of visualization yeah i read about it as a meditation technique talk to me about where you just said you have a picture of the building well yeah so i mean in rock climbing like when i'm climbing hard routes let's say you always just imagine the route you think about it you remember the moves Part of it is to physically remember what to do, like left hand, right hand, like drop the left hip, you know, turn the knee, things like that, like the mechanics of it.

40:45And then part of the visualization is like, what will it feel like, particularly around free soloing, things that you're not going to be able to practice necessarily. So some of the visualizing is just, you know, like, how will it feel to put my foot on something that's really slippery when, you know, I'm going to die if it slips. And so you're just kind of imagining the sensations and all that kind of stuff. So you can't, as part of free soloing, you can't go and climb this building at any point in order to practice. Well, no, I can go practice it with a rope. Okay. But the thing is, you just don't know, because when you have a rope on, you don't really mind if your foot's going to slip or something.

41:13But then when you take the rope away, you're kind of like, well, is it going to feel different? Like, I don't know. And you can't totally practice that. So you kind of have to do that mentally. Just imagine it. Yeah. So you get a sense while you're on the rope, almost as a dress rehearsal feeling. And then you're having to remember that feeling. Yeah. And sort of imagine the potential feelings. Because part of the benefit of visualization, I think, is that you're like, what if it's humid that day? What if it's particularly dry? And like with a building, it's interesting because with glass and metal, you know, the texture is obviously really different than rock.

41:42And so I'm not sure if I want it to be humid or if I want it to be dry. Like with rock, you normally want it to be super dry because it's humid. It's too slippery on the rock. But with a building, because it's so slippery to begin with, I think you actually want some humidity so it doesn't feel as slippery. Like you want your skin to stick to it a little bit. And so you want like a little bit of dampness. But obviously you don't wetness. You don't want it to be wet because then it's really slippery. um so anyway just thinking about stuff like that i mean that's all part of visualization i think but what i was going to say is that with uh with rock climbing you know you don't normally have footage of any of this type of stuff so you just imagine it you remember you think about the climb with this building you know we already went and did a scout and they're practicing the camera positions they flew a drone up and down the building to like figure out the angles and all that kind of stuff and so i never i don't think i've ever done this before but i kind of reached out the production team was kind of like send me you know selects of the whole building so i can remember all the, all the different, uh, sequences better.

42:34And so they sent me just some visuals of the building, but then they also sent me some clips of me climbing different things. And I was like, Oh, this is actually tremendously useful because I can see, you know, how I'm doing it and what I can do better. And just, you know, I was like, Oh, this is great. I love that you use visualization as a technique though. Every climber does. It's a really big part of climbing. And you're visualizing the process, the texture, the feeling, everything. Yeah. Every detail that you could possibly imagine or know from. and sometimes you're imagining you know the experience like the consequences of it or like what if you do fall like um i mean like particularly with with freesawing all cab like with i've spent so long kind of working on that i mean i thought about like what if i fell from here or fell from there just because and even though those are terrible things to visualize because it's you falling to your death in horrible ways because uh you know a lot of places falling off a mountain it's not like a clean it's not like i fell and then you hit the ground it's like you bounce you know, hundreds of feet or a thousand feet and it's a disaster.

43:26And so, but it's important to think about that stuff ahead of time so that when you're up there, you don't suddenly for the first time, you know, it's not like, oh, if I fell here, it would be horrible. It's like, no, you've already thought about that. You visualize it, you processed it and you've chosen to set that aside and execute the climb anyway. Yeah. You've already sat with the discomfort of that feeling in a safe environment. Exactly. So now you can track that and bring that with you to this. Yeah. Now you don't have to think about it while you're up there. I mean, ideally you think through all that stuff ahead of time.

43:53And so far with the building, I haven't gotten too deep and all that yet, just because I'm still kind of a ways out and I'm sort of focused on the physical side. And it's just not quite as close to my personal edge. I think I'm pretty sure. Like I just, I think it should be well within my comfort zone, I think. Um, so there's just not as much time devoted to like, what if I die? Uh, but you know, we'll see. No, no, I, I, but I love the visual. do you what's interesting to me because i'm thinking about all of us and i you know i think the smallest things in the world would be easier if so for example i've been public speaking for years and i've always asked for a picture of the stage so that i can visualize myself walking out so that i don't trip over when i go out there so that i and i think about all this and i'm giving a very human example of something that yeah that i hope my listeners can take away going okay well how do i use that i'm like yeah i visualize myself giving presentations i visualize myself doing difficult things for the first time.

44:48I visualize pretty much everything. I use it as a technique. You're a trained visualizer though. So it's like an easy tool for you to pull out of the box. For sure. But I would really encourage people to do it because hearing you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, you're visualizing all the details. And what I love that you haven't once said, and I want to ask you about this, is you didn't just say, oh, I visualize myself getting to the top and celebrating. It's like, no, I visualized. You don't care about that. Yeah, I thought you didn't. Talk to me about that because I think that's what today when we talk about manifesting and visualizing people have this visualize where you want to live visualize success right and it's like who cares about that because like that'll just follow like if that happens great if it doesn't whatever yeah um yeah it's funny i haven't visualized that actually i mean it's not totally true because the the the top of the building is this incredible little spire it's like a small little it's basically the space between us it's just a little dome so you just stand on this yeah you stand on this tiny little pinnacle and it's incredible and the view is insane um but you know i've already gone up there like climbed up through the hatch just to like check it out and rappel off the side and things and so i mean you know i know it's amazing and i know that it's going to feel amazing to stand up there so i haven't really like visualize that because i'll just you know it's like when it happens that happens but no you visualize this stuff that's important but but actually i mean talking about this anything i think in some ways if you're talking to like the the lay person audience whatever i think maybe it's worth not framing it as visualization because uh you know over the years as a climber i've always just kind of thought of as daydreaming, you know, it's like, cause also as a climber, you spend so much time hiking to and from cliffs.

46:15And I spent a lot of time by myself walking around, you know, in the mountains and you just spend a lot of time daydreaming, basically like thinking about climbing. And so, you know, occasionally like a project like this, I'll intentionally visualize where I'm like, okay, I'm getting ready for a thing. But basically anytime I go wandering in the mountains, I spend a tremendous amount of time just thinking about, you know, like your mind's always wandering on something. It might as well be wandering through climbs that you're excited about or things that you're thinking about or projects that you have, like things on the back burner that you didn't quite do that you want to go back to.

46:44So, you know, I mean, I think it's less daunting to think of it as like, oh, when you're out for a hike or like out for a walk with your dog, you just daydream about things that matter to you. Like that is visualization. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like you can make it more focused and you can, you can do it more intentionally, but at the core, it's just, it's just imagining stuff. Yes. Yes. I like that. And the truth is all of us are imagining, but most of us are imagining worst case scenario. Like, so imagine in the meeting and going, oh God, I'm going to get fired today. Or, you know, that, that's how we imagine.

47:12I wonder about that because, so I don't really have that so much. I didn't think you did. Yeah. And I do kind of wonder if I'm just like, just a little less neurotic than average, like as a base hardwired, you know what I mean? Like it's interesting because I've read it, you know, I just read your book. I've read a ton of like self-help type stuff over the years and like all kinds of, and generally I read and I'm like, I'm already living my best life. Like I love my life. I'm doing what I love to do. I'd like, I love the, and so, I mean, for whatever reason, I love reading books like that because I feel like if I get one little nugget that like helps me, it's like totally worth it.

47:44And, but at the same time, I'm just kind of like, I don't know if this book was written for me. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like I'm struggling with a lot of the things that, that it seems like some of these types of books are written for. Yes. Like I'm not struggling with, with inner turmoil around a lot of this type of stuff. And I'm kind of like, is that, you know, basically is that nature and nurture? It's like, is that just the way it is or or is that a lifetime spent outside being scared and i don't know yeah i mean i mean i i feel like like how much natural anxiety do you have no i feel similarly to you okay like you just never felt afflicted by like that wasn't how i operate in general yeah it was just not how i and i think it's because i was exposed to so much of it when i was young so i think it is the exposure of being overexposed to discomfort anxiety pain stress but i've seen that go both ways.

48:34So I've seen that lead to people becoming free of it or having less of it or being able to know how to manage it. I've also seen it go towards people. Crippling anxiety. Correct. And then I've seen also people creating great success in order to protect themselves from it. And so there's almost like it can go in three ways. And so it's not that simply being exposed to discomfort makes you stronger. Yeah, it depends on how it depends on how the person reacts to it. It's almost like there's this old story, which I love, which is like when you put three different things in boiling water, the different things happen to them.

49:08So it's like you put a potato in boiling water, it gets softer. You put an egg in boiling water, it gets harder. You put coffee beans in boiling water, they let out the best scent. And so there's this old story that goes, which one are you? Are you an egg, a potato, or are you a coffee bean? And so it's almost like the pressure of hot water, what does it do to you? And that's always been an interesting thing of do we get to choose that? or are we wired that way? What does that look like? Yeah, I think about that stuff more than I have two little kids. And so, you know, like questions of nature versus nurture, I just think about a lot more because you're kind of like, you know, are we having any impact on these children?

49:43Like, or are they just fully baked? How are you finding it? I'm intrigued as to... Well, they're so young, it's hard to tell. But you just see so much innate in them when you're like, you're just your own little person. And, you know, there are probably things that we could do negatively to like negatively impact their development. But I don't know how much we're going to do positively. You know what I mean? I'm kind of like, I think they're going to be fine. But in some ways it takes away a lot of the stress of parenting where you're just kind of like, you know, I'm not trying to like shape them into anything.

50:09Like I think they're going to be freaking great. We're just trying to make sure they're happy and safe and, you know, like have their material needs met and things and let them blossom into whatever they're going to blossom into. But we'll see. I mean, I'm just starting and I don't really know anything about parenting. We're just, we're just winging it. Yeah. No, I remember a friend, like I, We're not parents yet, but I remember a friend, like they raised their kid where like their kid would be like playing with fire and like jumping up and down and running around. And it's like, and I would, I didn't, I was much younger then and I didn't know their style.

50:39And so I would get scared when their kid was near a candle or something. They'd be like, no, let the kid be near a candle. Like they'll figure it out themselves. Yeah, we're very much like that. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'll just talk about risk taking and all that. I mean, I definitely, I think with the kids, you know, obviously I don't want to see them get grievously injured, but I don't really mind seeing them get a little banjured. You know, it's like seeing them fall down all the time. I'm like, that's fine. It's like, I mean, as a climber, you just fall down all the time and like you just get, you know, boo-boos nonstop.

51:05And so like with the kids, you're just kind of like, yeah, that's fine to get hurt all the time. But we're there to prevent catastrophic injuries. And like, and now we kind of see that already with the kids where you're like, oh, you know, they just seem a little bolder than some other kids their age maybe. But then you wonder, is that nature, is that nurture? Is that because we allow them the latitude to explore like that? Or is that, uh, you know, because it's my daughter and whatever, you know, I don't know. It's like my wife and I are already sort of adventurous people or like, and so our kids are too.

51:32I don't know. Yeah. You know, it's like, we'll see. Yeah. Can you, can you be a climber and be a perfectionist? I think, yeah, I think you can be. I mean, in some ways I actually think, um, I think I'm a recovered perfectionist in some ways. Talk to me about that. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that, um, my mom is like a major perfectionist, like, kind of like, like psycho. and so I think we were sort of raised that way it's like that's the that's the the norm but I mean but the reality is like I'm a very lazy person like I just often do the bare minimum and things that I don't care about um or like the minimum requirement to you know whatever and so I don't know like how do you reconcile like perfectionist tendencies of being incredibly lazy sort of like I don't know it's tough and so now I think I don't know I think I've hit a real sweet spot where it's like i work really hard on the things i care about and then everything else i just don't stress yeah yeah i mean i think that's that makes a lot of i mean that to me seems to be a trait of highly high performers and successful people in general that they're able to know well focus on the thing that matters yeah and what not that you can do absolutely and what not to waste time on and and but it's taken me a long time to get there i think you know because i think through early life you're just so hung up on like appearances and what you should be doing what you think you ought to be, you know, whatever.

52:50And then eventually you're just kind of like, you know, I'm only good at a couple of things. I just focus on the thing I'm good at and just do it. Yeah. And just be happy doing it. Yeah. Talk to me. I wanted to go back. You were saying that right now you're working out, diet, sleep, like walk me through what that routine looks like. I love, I love learning about people who live incredible lives and their different systems that they have in place to be able to pull off great feats. I mean, yeah, it's all normal stuff, of like eat well exercise. I'm intrigued. So I'm eating a vegetarian basically, you know, mostly whole foods.

53:22I don't know, like dinner last night was like tofu, roasted broccoli and cauliflower and some like some purple sweet potato thing. I think that was it. Oh, and some Brussels sprouts. But it's basically just a bowl of like vegetables. And it's interesting because even like a couple months ago, I would have thought of that as a sort of inadequate dinner, you know, but like the last several weeks, I've basically just been eating like whole foods and no sugar and, and like wholesome meals. And I'm kind of like, you know, I've just kind of like adapted to it. Like this feels good and I feel great and yeah, I'm sleeping well.

53:53And, um, how much do you try and sleep and when do you sleep? Well, basically, I mean, the babies have been waking up actually are, uh, we have like a, they'll, they'll be two and four in February. So right now it's like one and three quarters or whatever. Um, but for whatever reason, just waking up in the middle of the night, a bunch right now, which is like a new, I think it's like a developmental phase. You know, it's like, she suddenly made a leap but she's saying way more but you're like god go back to sleep like oh man um but so we basically sleep from like 10 to 6 every day like roughly eight hours every day but then sometimes a little more or less but then you you know the other night i got up at three and then just like made a bottle for my baby and like did a whole nother bedtime for it three in the morning like basically like read her story and put her back to bed and it's kind of like huh what an unusual night yeah um so you know i can't take it too seriously it's not like sure but you know it's it's enough though i mean we're sleeping well and vegetarian over a meat diet because um i'd always cared more about the environmental impact like just the the the impact on the earth but i also feel like it's a little cleaner and i'm not like super uh uptight about it like i'll eat fish and um in general i'll eat meat if it's going to be wasted you know if like somebody has a serving i'm like oh well it's better than throwing it away um but i just don't buy meat and i don't really do dairy um i think you find that affects your performance too i I think I'm kind of lactose intolerant a little bit.

55:12And so I'm kind of like, it's probably not like the best, but, um, yeah, it's just, but again, it's also better for the earth. I'm kind of like, ah, it seems better. Right. Interesting. The main thing for me is not eating desserts, like not eating extra sugar. It just keeps everything going. Yeah. So then that's hard then. Well, I actually, so interesting. I'm maybe like two weeks into eating really well right now. And, uh, and you just lose the cravings. Yeah. You feel so much better. Once you get past that, I go through periods of being completely off. and then I have like, you know, during Christmas time, I'll probably dabble a little bit again.

55:44But when I'm off, I feel like my taste buds change. Yeah. You just feel so much better. I know it's all the things you read about in books that you're just like, nah, that's stupid. And then you actually experience it and you're like, well, it does seem like it's true. Imagine it's the 22nd of January. What do you do? What's your ritual the night before? Is it different? Do you have a ritual? No, no. But the night before, I mean, the day before be a rest day i might do some cardio or something go for like a light run or go they're um they're a bunch of really cool mountains like in the city so you can go run around they're like monkeys in the jungle and stuff it's really cool so you can like run around in the mountains a little bit um so i'll probably do some cardio or something but basically no strenuous exercise and then uh yeah i'll just go to bed early and you know just try to eat well and go to sleep basically you just want it to be normal yeah like it's a normal day it's chill and then you wake up the next day and you do the thing yeah it's it whenever when i'm hearing you speak about it which is really refreshing is that it's such a it feels like such a natural part of your life well i think that's how you want to make it yeah like yeah because then it doesn't feel extreme you know it doesn't like it doesn't require some crazy thing that you do you're like this is this is what you do this is normal yes and i can i can liken it to and i'm only translating it because always thinking about our listeners but i can translate it to in the past if i was sitting down with someone that i was a huge fan of and i built that up it would actually make me a bad interviewer totally because you're all because you're all like oh my god yeah and i would do that when i first started the show and and then over time people saw me relax in and he's in and sometimes i said to people i was like it's not that i wasn't super excited it was just i had to contain it to do my job you're all keep it chill keep it chill i got this yeah exactly no so exactly what you're saying so with uh with freesawing all cap uh like i knew it would be the biggest thing I'd ever do.

57:32Like I knew, I mean, I didn't think the film would be as successful as it was, but, um, but I knew that it would be far beyond anything I'd ever done because it's, you know, it's a feature documentary and whatever. And, and I knew the climb would be insane, but at the same time, you know, the main challenge of free soloing is psychological. Like I had climbed El Cap with ropes, you know, many years before I'd climbed it without falling off many years before. Like technically I was physically able to do it many years before, but the psychological challenge, the believing you can do it and you know, when your life is on the line that like, that's a, that's a bigger challenge.

58:02And so I didn't want to build it up even bigger in my mind because you're like, the challenge is already psychological. I don't need to like pile on and make it even harder. And so a big part of my strategy with El Cap was to make it part of my normal year. And so like, right after I freestalled El Cap, I went on this expedition to Alaska, which is like a normal, as a professional climber, you go on trips to places, you try to climb new walls, whatever. And so it allowed me to look at my Yosemite season that year as kind of building up for Alaska. And actually in the Alaska trip was because I went on an expedition later in that year to Antarctica.

58:36And I was kind of like, oh, I haven't been on skis in a while. It'd be nice to like do some glacier travel and climb some big granite spires on snow because it'll be good for Antarctica. And so I was kind of like, oh, Yosemite season is building up for Alaska, which is building up for Antarctica. And so it took a lot of the pressure off having to achieve on El Cap or whatever, because I'm like, oh, either way, this is practice for these other things coming up. And I mean, I knew that the other things don't freaking matter compared to freeze all in El Cap. But, you know, it's like, it's good to keep it, keep it feeling chill.

59:03And so, I mean, I've always been into sort of stacking my goals in that way and trying to make sure that you don't let them get too big. You know, it's like you keep it all. I don't know. Yeah. So the building's kind of the same way where I'm like, obviously that's more important than some of the other things I'm working on right now, but I do have a bunch of other climbing projects that are sort of intermixed with the training. And so it keeps it all feeling mellow. So yeah, when you, when you summit like El Cap or anything like that, where you, where you reach the top, how do you find you process that feeling?

59:35Like, what does that feel like to you? Is it gratifying? Do you experience it? Yeah, no, I'm psyched. I'll be like, this is amazing. I mean, with El Cap, it was such a long, and it was so on the edge of what I thought was possible. And so it meant a lot, you know, it meant a lot to me. I'd put so much into it and the pressure with the film grew and all this stuff. I mean, it was insane. So it definitely, I was like, this is, this is amazing. I mean, the building, too, I'm sure I'll stand at the top and be like, this is awesome. I'll be so psyched. But then, you know, I'll take the elevator down and be like, OK, what a day.

1:00:02I was like, what a joy. I'm sure I'll be glowing like until I'm back home. But then as soon as I fly back to my own Las Vegas, I'll be back to normal climbing projects like things that because I wouldn't be at all surprised. basically there's several other things I'm trying to do at home as a sort of build up and training for the building. And I wouldn't be surprised if I don't manage to do any or all of them, you know, we'll see which things I managed to do. And so as soon as I finished the building, I'll just be back to try to finish my training goals basically. Yeah. Is it, is it right? You were talking about waking up and the baby being awake at night.

1:00:32Is this the first time you're doing a climb as a father and a husband? No, no, it's not. I mean, I've done a handful of things that are, that are cutting edge uh with the kids actually i did kind of my hardest like free solo to date for the spear like it'll be this cool like insane it's a bunch of the same crew from free solo so it's like the same same co-directors and stuff and so it's really fun to get everyone back together and we and i free sold this wall in in jordan in the middle east it's like 1200 foot sandstone wall and it was probably i told my wife it's like probably top 10 hardest things i've ever sold but she was like top 10 is like kind of hard because i've actually done way more than than what's in the public like on film um because just building up del cap i did like a ton of things that were that are very hard and so this thing for the sphere that was probably the first thing i've done with kids where i was like this is actually kind of cutting edge and pretty hard and before doing it i was kind of like is this going to be different you know like am i going to be up there thinking about my kids being like oh god this is so scary now but i got up there i was like this is awesome so it's like is this amazing wall it's a really classic route it's it's famous and it's uh it's it's really high quality and so i was just up there being like this is so amazing i felt great so wait you can experience that endosphere in vegas uh in next next fall i think so like in years oh that's so cool that's awesome yeah we'll we'll see uh i think it's hard to film for something like that you know it's hard to shoot on these crazy cameras like that place is amazing so we'll see what how it turns out but in theory next uh next fall there'll be a thing like that this might all need to get go yeah well like i don't know Ask someone who's smarter than me.

1:02:01Yeah, yeah. I just went to watch Wizard of Oz then. Oh, is it cool? But it was insane. Yeah, I've heard it's really cool. It was incredible. I was so blown away by it, and I can't imagine. Yeah, that's the thing, because I think seeing soloing like that would be like insane. It would be amazing. Yeah, it would be a real experience.

1:02:31And this week, we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future. Lab-grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics and our imagination. It invites us to question why we draw lines exactly where we do, and whether those lines are drawn in ink or in pencil. And what does this have to do with sanctity, brain plasticity, social belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories, flesh copyrights, and the future of personhood. What is the table we're going to set for ourselves? What does this question uncover about brain science and our calculations of morality?

1:03:15Listen to Inner Cosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets. We were in the car, like a rolling stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets.

1:03:58Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.

1:04:44And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:05:28so it's interesting you said that you know you've done to hear you say you've done crazier harder climbs that have never been documented well not harder than el cap right um but leading up to el cap well actually so let's see i mean i can remember so leading up to el cap i had three other routes that were very, uh, I mean, they're similar. They're not as hard and they're not as big, but they kind of led up to it. And one of them got filmed for YouTube basically. And then the other two never, nobody ever even saw them. You know, like, like one of my friends saw one of them with binoculars from the parking lot in this one area, but like basically nobody saw any of the other stuff.

1:06:04One of them, uh, not only did nobody see it, like nobody was even in the climbing region. I went in and I'd been planning on prepping it for several days, but then my van ran out of propane and it was like this insanely long windy road to go back to town and i was kind of like oh i can't cook and so i was like screw it so i just did the solo the next day so i could drive back out and just leave because i didn't want to because i couldn't cook and i don't want to take a whatever so i was like well that's the ultimate like rushed solo you know you're kind of like nobody saw nobody there was no plan i just like got it done and left yeah so i've done a lot of things like that over the years wow well do you um do you have conversations with your wife before you decide what you're going to climb and stuff or is this kind of like this is what i'm doing and yeah no for the most part i mean um when we first met i mean like have you seen the film free solo it all sounds pretty you know like like i don't care at all about her feelings and and i think that's gives a slightly wrong impression just because at that point i've been dreaming about all cap for you know eight years or something and then i'd met uh i actually met my now wife uh at the exact same time that we started filming for the the documentary so we filmed for sort of two years to make that documentary and so that was the first two years of our relationship and you know i was like oh she's amazing and this is great but you know as some random person i met six months ago like it's not going to get in the way of a life dream you know but now it's totally different because now i'm like oh we've been together 10 years we have kids we have a life together like you know i live with like my in-laws and then you know it's all um it's all much more tightly woven and so her opinion matters a lot more for projects now yeah how did you know she was the right person i don't know she's just she's so great i mean um I think when I proposed there was I said something along the lines of uh you know like this is great can we just keep doing this forever you know like like why not uh yeah yeah I've never been into the big like romantic gesture type thing because I kind of think the day-to-day life is like one of the things that I think is great in our in our life like we have what we call sleepovers at night like basically at night we always chit chat for a really long time um which is detrimental to our sleep but it's like but whenever we go to bed we always have like you know we chit chat for a while and I'm like oh it's so nice you know it's like you want to have a buddy that you chit chat with your whole life I'm kind of like I don't know I'm gonna do that forever I love that man does she find obviously what you do inspire like what how does she what's her take on it like if she was here right now and I was like describe what Alex does like how it feels for her what would she say I don't know I don't know I mean you know she must be at least slightly impressed by it I mean she didn't meet me at a book event but at the same time yeah well actually though she didn't really climb at the time her friend was into it and so her friend basically dragged her along like come to this event and uh she had just gotten disillusioned with dating apps and she was like the next person i see that i think is cool i'm gonna give my number and so afterward i was like signing books and she just gave me her number i was like cool and so i texted her and then uh and now we're married you know long story short that's awesome yeah yeah it's cool but um yes obviously she must care a little bit but i don't think she cares that much is she a climber too yeah yeah now she's uh she basically kind of started climbing at roughly the same time that we she had just started when we met and so now it's been 10 years and you know now she's quite a good climber wow that's awesome that's amazing will you ever do a climb together well we climb together all the time not like extreme climbing um but yeah we try to climb together as much as possible now with the two kids it's a little harder for us to go out together but then now i mean sometimes we go on sort of climbing trips as a family and then the kids just run around the forest and play and we boulder you know it's like we're going to do a family bouldering trip in France, uh, in the springtime.

1:09:26It's like a really famous bowling destination, but it's amazing for the kids because basically a sandy forest with, you know, nice soft trees and sand everywhere. So the kids just roam and play. It's like really cool. Is there a part of the world that you're fascinated by that you haven't visited yet? Actually Southeast Asia. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm fascinated, but I've never been, I've always wanted to, and there's tons of climbing, but it's also kind of hot and humid. And so, uh, I'm sure I'll go at some point, but honestly, I traveled quite a lot before, before I had my wife and kids, uh, you know, I was kind of abroad, like maybe three months a year or something for climbing trips.

1:09:58And a lot of that now I'm kind of waiting until the kids are a little older. Cause I'm like, if I'm going to travel, I'm going to take the kids and I want them to be old enough to remember it and have a real life experience. So I think in general, our traveling is all a little bit on hold until kids are older. And then I'm like really excited to show them some of these places. Do you believe your work has a message or a mission beyond personal joy and fulfillment and thriving in play or or is it truly that is it i mean not that big of a mission i mean so part of the reason i started the honol foundation a long time ago i mean i started this foundation that supports community solar projects around the world was that you know i had a lot of work opportunities that i didn't necessarily need to take because i didn't need the money because i was living by myself in a van I was kind of like, you know, I don't need to make this.

1:10:45I mean, this, a lot of the stemmed from one specific experience where I shot this commercial for a bank and, uh, you know, and, and they wound up airing the commercial a ton. And this wasn't even like, it wasn't even for me as like a famous climber or anything. It was like sag rates or whatever, like screen actress girls. I just signed the normal contract, but they wound up using the ad a ton. It aired all over the world. And so I made, you know, like six figures or something off of like a day and a half of shooting. and I was like well there's no justice in that you know and the thing is is that it was work that I would have done for free because it's like you're going out with your friends and you're climbing in some spire and they're shooting with a helicopter and it's super you know it's crazy it's like super fun work you're like this is a total life experience that you would do as a rest day anyway you know what I mean because like when you're shooting commercial like that it's not like you're training it's not like it's hard and so you're doing it as a rest day and you're like well either I would have sat in my van and read all day or I can go like climb the spire with my friend with a helicopter and it's insane.

1:11:36So you're like, obviously you want to do things like that, but I was kind of like, I don't need the money from it. I don't like need to do this type of work. And so part of starting my foundation was kind of like, well, it's a nice way to funnel all that, you know, sort of funnel the notoriety, the, the, you know, the, the money, like all that stuff can just go into something that seems slightly more useful because I like saying yes to those types of opportunities, but it's like, but it feels kind of, you know, it's not like I'm saving up for ei you know like i don't i don't need that and so it's nice to have like a reason to to funnel it all into something yeah that's that's awesome and then i know you just launched your podcast planet visionaries as well right with uh yeah yeah planet initiative yeah um yeah actually we didn't just like we launched the new season i've done i think three or four seasons with them now um but yeah that's like one of my favorite you know where i mean you know like interviewing people that are interesting and yeah so with planet visionaries i'm interviewing uh you know conservation is like marine biologists like basically people who are doing something useful in the world and every time i have one of the conversations i'm just like oh you come out of it feeling yeah you know inspired yeah like recharged in a good way it's like kind of nice yeah and so how are you picking are those people you know and are friendly with or are they people that you're just fascinated by you know they're they're often people working through the rolex perpetual plan initiative, uh, because Rolex actually funds a surprising amount of conservation work like that.

1:12:57People don't really know that, but, uh, but so a lot of them, uh, you know, somebody like Sylvia Earl, who's like her deepness, she's a, she's like the Jane Goodall of the ocean. Um, she's been a Rolex testimony since like 1950 or something. I don't know. She's like, I think she's 90. She's still like scuba diving and, you know, creating marine protected areas around the world, trying to like help protect the ocean. And so interviewing people like her, uh, you know, they're just like part of this whole whole world and then occasionally i interview folks um like i've interviewed a few uh like grantee partners from the hana foundation like some of the organizations that we've supported uh doing community solar around the world i've interviewed through them just to highlight the type of projects that they're doing and why why those types of projects matter um i mean we're kind of always looking for good guests if you know you know somebody absolutely yeah i was actually because i became friendly with munia recently from rolex and she was telling me about the show and everything that they were trying to do with it And so I actually, there's, there's a guest.

1:13:51I always, I, his name escapes me, but I met him recently and he was fascinating. So I'll have to, I'll have to, yeah, I thought of him to Munya too. And I was like, oh, I'm going to see Alex. I'll just tell him when I see him. Yeah. We were doing, um, you know, the first season or two is like Rolex ambassadors and things like that. And then you're kind of like, well, there are only so many. And it's like, and so you started like broadening it out a little bit. We're kind of like really anybody who's doing inspiring work, protecting the planet is worth, I mean, in many of the guests that I talk to, it's like, it's interesting because they're doing conservation in a slightly different way or, you know, a slightly different approach.

1:14:24I don't know. I like to think of the interviews as like kind of mini little Ted talks or something where it's like, what's the little nugget that you're trying to give to the audience? Like, like in what way can they see the world differently as a result of having listened to this? So I don't know. It's, it's, it's pretty fun, fun interviews. I mean, as you know. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to. Um, I wanted to ask you, uh alex i wanted to share one more thing but i'm gonna wait for it to come through actually because i believe we have this so i'm just waiting for it if now's a good time okay thank you so much thank you wow this is so pro i need a teleprompter i'm like where's my so we had to do it for moments like this so uh alex we you know we're so excited about what you're doing.

1:15:12And, you know, as I said, I'm such a fan from before that it's, it's really a joy to learn. It's, I find it so refreshing when I sit with someone who kind of bursts every myth that you have about the thing, right? Like, I think we all have certain, it's like what you said, the questions you usually get asked or the kind of hype that's built up around, this is how this person breaks through fear and what they do. And then when I sit with you, I'm like, oh, I love how the way you approach it is flow, is play, is real, is life, is joy, is, you know, and that's not what I would know or anticipate if I didn't sit with you deeply and have a really casual conversation with you.

1:15:50Yeah, you think it's extreme. Yeah. And I love that it isn't. Like, you know, it's beautiful when your bubble gets burst and the myth breaks because you get to understand a human on a deeper level. And so we'd reached out to your mentor, Tommy, who'd sent a letter for you. Tommy sent a letter? Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay. Okay. Would you like to read it or would you like me to read it out loud? What would you prefer? What's better for you? You should read it. It's for you. So I'll read it to you. Yeah. So he says, I know we asked him for a letter for you because you were coming on the show. Oh, well, I'm already horrid.

1:16:23Do I need to leave? I need to leave. I'm like deeply uncomfortable. All right. So this is what Tommy said. He said, Dear Alex, when this podcast asked me to write you a heartfelt letter, I had to laugh. Few things make one of the most mentally strong men in the world squirm more than public affection, especially from someone close. But I'm doing it anyway, because people should know the man behind the fearless facade. When I climbed with you, mountains shrink to half their size. At first, I thought it was your systems and efficiency. But over the years, I've realized it's something deeper, your unwavering belief in a positive outcome.

1:16:58More than free soloing, that is your superpower. When you believe things will work out, they almost always do. You've helped me see that so much of what feels heavy or scary in life is mostly imagination. Whenever I come to you with relationship worries or questions about how my kids are growing up, you reframe things until they suddenly feel manageable. And every time you've been right. You bring humor and lightness to places no one else could. Helping the people around you believe they can not only survive, but thrive. Your bluntness, your unfiltered honesty might feel harsh coming from someone else, but from you, it builds trust.

1:17:37Everyone close to you understands it comes from a genuine desire to see people reach their potential. I also wish the world understood your generosity. You create abundance in everything you do and then give it away to friends, to family, to everyone around you. We come from a culture that values obscurity, one that assumes fame dilutes intention maybe that's why calling you an entertainer feels strange but you've shown that you can go big without losing who you are and if the world is going to be entertained by anyone i'm glad it's you knowing you and calling you a friend has been one of the greatest luck events of my life i love you man tommy that's that's really nice i was kind of like did he write this and then as he got into i was like oh no he wrote this oh no no we would never do that yeah i'm like no that's incredible i'm like that's the nicest thing that's so nice it nearly brought tears to my eyes reading and it's the first time i've read it i've not seen it before now either because it's uh yeah i'm i am shocked and you know i'm like what a nice man i wonder when he wrote this he actually stopped by our house just the other day they were driving for family thanksgiving so they just stopped for a night uh just to camp along the way i'm like oh so how did you guys be climbing i mean well he was one of my childhood heroes I was like, he's one of the most famous climbers in the world.

1:18:56And, uh, even when I was a kid, uh, you know, he was, he was one of the best climbers ever. So I always looked up to him and it's like, oh, one day, you know, I want to be like him. And then, uh, at some point we just met on the road, you know, both like two climbers. And I think we were maybe in Squamish, it was a spot in British Columbia. But then, uh, but then I sort of sought him out for a couple of climbing objectives. And then once we started climbing together, it was like game on. Yeah. Well, I loved what he said about you having the ability to reframe things and, uh, Would you say that's your superpower?

1:19:26Well, I mean, I think that's just normal. I don't know. Yeah, it's like, why build it up is bigger than it needs to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny what he said. He does jokingly call me an entertainer because I've done TV shows and things now. And so he's always like, oh, you're an entertainer. And I'm like, no, because, you know, I like to at least think of myself as like more of a high performance athlete or whatever. I used to jokingly call myself a high performance clothing model because when you're a professional climber, it basically means you're sponsored by apparel companies. and so I was like oh I'm a clothing model but I send you know like I go hard and now Tommy's like oh you're an entertainer you're just like a TV personality but I'm like no but send it you know but the thing is I don't mind being a TV person as long as you can actually do the thing you're trying to do which is like climb hard climb well like do things that you're proud of yeah absolutely but oh Tommy what a sweet man what else stuck out to you what else was like what resonated with you yeah I don't know it's just all That's a beautiful letter.

1:20:22It's very heartfelt for a man who knew you were going to run out of the room when you heard me. I know. That's actually the funny thing. Yeah. That, yeah, nothing makes me swirm like public affection. Is that true? Somebody close. That's so true. Yeah. No, I'm so impressed that he wrote this. Well, you can keep it. Yeah, no. I should put this on my wall. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Frame it. Like, what a nice. Holding to it as well. Do you do that for guests? Or is that just like a thing you do occasionally? very rare that we don't do for everyone for the right type of guest yeah for the right guest who feels at a exciting moment doing something new doing something fresh like interesting but it feels right that's such a nice idea it's one of my it's one of my favorite things to do because I feel like like you said like I think in our day to day we love people but we don't we don't say it like that and you don't get many chances in life to reflect and so I know I love reflecting on people and I've appreciated when people have done it for me and it's yeah it's one of my favorite things to do.

1:21:21I have this activity I do with when I'm doing workshops in companies sometimes where I'll take a group of leaders who, despite achieving great things, their biggest worry is that they're bad parents because they're so busy. And we always have their kids write a note to them and it's stuck under their chair. And it's really special because that seems like waterworks. And you also get to see what kids actually value versus what you think they value. So you're thinking like, oh, when I bought them that big gift or when I took them on that fancy vacation it's like that kid just remembered you've read a story to them before they went to bed last night like that was the win uh the win wasn't some you know grand gesture or some big event in their life it was this tiny moment where you're actually present so um but but Alex oh go on you're gonna say something oh I'm just like oh I'm so touched it's funny I mean you know I just read uh things like a mug yeah and someone one of my friends would just ask me like oh what are your takeaways like what do you feel like you gained from and I was like oh there's a lot you know around like kindness compassion things like you know caring service like all these types of like feeling i was like you know i think i have a lot of room for improvement all of those things like you know because there's a lot in the book that i'm kind of like yeah no this is fine i got that and then you know basically the whole second half of the book i'm kind of like hmm i'm like that's that's not quite my sweet spot so we're like yeah like there's there's something to be learned there i'm just like oh it's yeah just give something to think about Yeah.

1:22:41Like sweet Tommy. What a nice little. Sweet Tommy, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Alex, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence, maximum. And so, Alex Honnold, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? I'll just go for it. Just try. That's my advice. It's worked for you. Yeah. Yeah, it's better to, I mean, this is more than one sentence. Please, carry on. But yeah, I mean, it's better to try something and fail than to not try it yeah just second question does failure even do you even ever think about failure well if failure means death and yeah you think about it a lot no uh i don't know can i give more than one sentence yeah because i'm sort of like i mean yeah because it's interesting because in climbing failure like basically as a climber you fail all the time non-stop like as a climber you basically try projects and you fail on them over and over and over until the one time you succeed.

1:23:38And then as soon as you succeed, you move on to the next thing. And so, uh, like yesterday I failed on a project that I've been working on on and off for like five or six years or something. I've been trying it forever. It's like my life brush. And, uh, and I almost did it yesterday and hopefully I'll do it on Sunday, which is the next day I get to go back there. But basically I will have spent years, literally years failing on something. And then I'll do it once, which will represent about, you know, 13 minutes of high performance activity where I like try really hard. It might even be less than that.

1:24:04I'm not sure how long it takes to climb, but it's like in the minutes. And then after, you know, years of failure, I'll have six minutes of success and then I'll move on to the next thing. It's like, so as a climber, it's like, you don't really define it as success and failure because you literally, you spend all your time failing. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Again, the exposure therapy is like, you're just always failing, but that's the whole point. The whole point is to go out and try things that are hard for you. So by that definition, you're not failing. You're just going climbing. Like climbing is failing.

1:24:31Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? sort of say i mean maybe like the the public acclaim to some extent i think you know when you're alone in your van kind of like i just want to like be known basically so you can get laid you're kind of like i just want to meet somebody whatever and then once you actually have some of that you're like i don't really need all that but yeah how long did you spend in that van um i think i lived in the van 12 years 12 years yeah i mean two different vans and yeah i mean i had some girlfriends on and off and various things and um yeah but basically lived in the van from 20 to 30.

1:25:05Yeah. Maybe a little more than that. Were you happy then? Oh yeah, it's great. But I just knew that I wouldn't want to do that my whole life. What was it that made you happy then, but knew it wasn't where you were living in a van is amazing when all you're trying to do is climb at your, at your limit, but barring even the obvious, like you'll lose motivation. You just don't care. You know, after 10 or 20 years of doing something nonstop, full tilt, you're like, you know, do I need to do another 20 years of that? Um, and I knew that one day I'd want a family and you know it's like my aspiration is to die at 80 with grandkids around me and it's hard to do that if you live alone in a van is that is that really the dream yeah yeah i think so that's the way some of my grandparents died and i'm like that's a great way to go would that make you feel content like if you were looking back on your life at 80 what do you think would stand out to you well i don't know my grandma one my last grandma died at 95 i think uh you know surrounded by family i'm kind of like that's a good way to go like i would be delighted to have that have that play out yeah that's beautiful yeah it's my wife i named my daughter after my beloved grandmother oh really yeah i mean and really like is there anything better you know it's like when you when you're dying of old age surrounded by family and you had a good enough relationship with them that they're naming their children after you like great success and call it good absolutely alex is there anything that i didn't ask you that you wish i did no i don't know but i have all kinds of questions for you but we can chat after Yeah, absolutely.

1:26:31Absolutely. Alex, it's been such a joy getting to know you. I feel like I totally got such an education in what it really means to be fearless in a way that I didn't expect. And those are my favorite types of conversations where I'm pleasantly surprised, blown away, inspired, and excited to see what you do on the 23rd of Jan. And even though you won't care, I'll be rooting for you and cheering for you and watching. But thank you so much. And I hope we can stay in touch. Oh, no, I appreciate that. That was a total pleasure. Thanks, Alex. Appreciate it. That was awesome, man. Thank you so much. Great.

1:27:02If you love this podcast, you'll love my episode with Lewis Hamilton. Lewis and I talk about why you should stop chasing society's definition of success and how to be more intentional with your goals. You don't want to miss it. It's not about being perfect. It's about just every day, one step at a time, trying to be better, trying to do more. I'm learning a lot about myself. I have to break myself down in order to be able to be better. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.

1:27:40And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50 percent of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:28:24Listen to Nora Jones' Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No one is harmed, no death, no trauma, just a few cells grown in a dish. This is David Eagleman from the Inner Cosmos podcast. And this week, we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future. Lab-grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics. And what does this have to do with brain plasticity, social belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories? What does this uncover about brain science and our calculations of morality? Listen to Inner Cosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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