Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: “I Thought My Kids Would Be Better Off Without Me” Opening up About The Darkest Night of His Life and What FINALLY Gave Him The Courage to Live Authentically

25:45until I just had to let go. How long did you carry that shame of, I know, but I don't want to tell them because it will hurt them and break what they've built? Once I knew, I had an experience, which I talk a bit about in the book, and it wasn't anything heavy. But when I was a kid, I was sat down. I grew up in Northern England. There wasn't middle to north. And it was kind of, being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay pub in town. but it was on the outskirts and the men that went were quite flamboyant. It wasn't really spoken about. Princess Diana was on the news shaking a man with AIDS without gloves.

26:26And that was headline news because, you know, they're like, could she get AIDS from shaking this man's hand? People didn't know enough about it and they knew about AIDS. And it was kind of told to me that gay men get AIDS. So I was also fearful of that. Someone that's prone to OCD, like I just felt very conscious of that. So I had an experience that I kind of met someone, we became friends and it never really went beyond friendship. But he told me one day that he was HIV positive. I remember he didn't even live near me. We had a phone call conversation daily, but I became friends with him. And it was the first time that I was kind of like, I like this guy.

27:00Like, I really like him. And I kind of was trying to understand it. So it was a slow process. And then he told me he had HIV. And I was like, well, I can't. I'm good. I'm absolutely good. So I literally just cut it off. and even though I hadn't done anything I felt like oh my god could I get HIV is this a thing I don't know it was really really scary and then I guess over the process of the next year I think once like I say you kind of put your foot in the water it was just uh it was hard to go back and then once I actually did meet someone yeah that was it there was there was no going back that period of your life I can imagine is when you look back at it now it's probably one of the most difficult times because it's almost like no it got way harder which we'll get to but but that moment of i can finally be honest with myself but i don't know how to be honest with the people that i love totally that's like a there's one thing of like oh wow i can finally be honest with myself that's huge yeah but then it's always harder when you're trying to express it to other people i imagine what was it like telling your partner at the time i told initially my partner and um that was a process and i also had to respect that she needed to go through her own grief were you aware of that at the time when you told her yeah yeah wow that's mature because i loved her i really loved her and i didn't want to be yay i didn't want to be different i was i went back to being the kid at school.

28:27But once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic. I told my family and everyone needed to process it the way they needed to process it. And I just had to be respectful of that. You have to let people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions, nor do I want to. I think it's really important for people to feel and go through the process. But the hardest part was telling my kids. And I think mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head around that. I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't think I ever would, but I do feel ready. I feel ready to talk to people because I feel like hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a difficult time.

29:05But my job as a dad, I felt, was to protect my kids. Going through what I went through as a kid, being bullied was horrible. My childhood was a lot of memories are not great ones. So the idea of bringing that to my kids it was really painful to feel that they would get bullied because their dad was gay. I know the things that kids say and I know how mean they can be. And I just didn't want them to ever have that shame that was put on me onto them. And in a way, I felt like a disease. I felt like it was like a cancer. I wanted to cut it out of me. I was like, if I could just get rid of that, then I could just be a normal dad for them.

29:43Because that's what they need. I felt so selfish putting myself first. So eventually people started to talk as they do. It was a small town and me and Kate decided to tell the kids. So I couldn't even say the words. And I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this. Initially saying the words, I'm gay is a challenge because once those words are out, it's done. I actually didn't say it. The mother of Kate's mom actually said it. And then I just saw these two beautiful kids who were like six and eight, and they were upset because they knew I was upset, and they were confused. All of a sudden, I just felt like I'd just messed their life up.

30:28I felt like I'd failed as a dad because my job was to protect them. If anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them, but I was the one hurting them. I couldn't understand that. I also just couldn't hide I was gay anymore I was so exhausted from it so after telling them just the confusion killed me and my son said to me does that mean you're going to have your arm like this because he was so young and innocent and kids at school would do there was already things said and I was like no I'm just me I'm the same I'm not going to change but are you going to change are you going to be different And yeah, I kind of just shut down and I left.

31:12And I left not because I was three, but I left because I felt so much shame. And I got in the car. I drove for a couple of hours. I drove for quite a long time. It felt like five minutes. I just felt like I needed to get away from them. I felt like I was contagious. And I – sorry, I've not really spoke about this before. You don't need to be sorry. take your time yeah so I I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay and so I I brought some painkillers I brought a bottle of alcohol and I checked myself into a hotel and the whole time I had a picture of the kids it was like this computer case I had and they're smiling on it they wrote a message on it it was silly it was just a little computer case but I was just holding it the whole time.

32:08I'd slept with it a lot throughout that period. I just wanted to protect them, you know, and I took the tablets and drank the alcohol. I ran Kate and I apologized for the pain I'd caused. I closed my eyes and I just thought, this is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore, you know. I won't bring any more pain and maybe I'll stop hurting too. The rest was a blur. I remember sirens and stuff. And I just then remember being in hospital and I could hear voices. And I remember thinking, is this it? Where am I? And something changed then. And it was really powerful because I realized I couldn't hate myself any more than I had.

33:02And I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore. I'd done everything with my power. I spent my whole life creating a different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be. And tickle all the boxes. But I knew I had to reveal the truth. And so in that moment, it was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic. But I just remember thinking, well, what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm just gay and I just be that? And I don't really know where to begin with it. And I don't know where it's going to leave me. But it has to be better than what I've been doing. And in that moment, something changed. I decided to live.

33:50And I think that's the moment where I went back to that eight-year-old boy standing at the window and allowed himself to be seen. That was the beginning of it all, really. So although it was one of the darkest nights of my life, I think it was a turning point. And like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I think it's not something I've ever spoken about. But I hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard or seen and find the help they need. Or even maybe it's a parent that is struggling understanding their child to understand how dark it can be when you're left in silence. And when you don't get to express who you truly are, or even if it's the kid that did the bullying at school and see how painful it can really be for someone.

34:38Yeah, Chris, thank you for sharing that because it's... I just didn't feel like I could write a book. Talking about my story, I think there's this perception of me that people see on social media, and it looks like my life together. It looks like I look pretty polished. I think people tell me that, you know, I mean, I work with amazing women, you know and life looks glamorous and from the outside it probably looks like i've got it all together but there's a very different side and that's what i want to talk to people about and that's what i want to help people with and it's not just about my journey it's about helping people realize theirs yeah no i really appreciate you sharing it because we're seeing male suicide rise yeah we know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt for long periods of time is not healthy for someone even if they don't you know try to commit suicide and i think having people like yourself who've been there who are open enough to share how you get there and it's needed right now it's needed right now help a lot of men right yeah a lot of people but definitely a lot of men right now who need it as well and i think also just like stereotypes and boxes that we love to put people in it's like you don't have to fit a particular mold I think you are who you are and you should have time and space to develop that and what it is and and I'm someone that spent my life trying to avoid that and then I had to do the really painful part of unpicking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone else and what was truly me when I did that there was a piece to it were you relieved when you woke up in the hospital yeah I mean I don't think I ever wanted to die I wanted to kill the thing that I felt that was destructing my life And the thing that made me feel different as a kid, the thing that made me not blend in with all the other boys and girls, like I wasn't like all the regular guys.

36:24And I wanted to not be different. Now I love being different. You know, as an adult now, I've realized the beauty in being different is such a special thing to be able to have that talent, to be different, to let it grow. And when it's not suppressed, my God, like the whole world can change. My whole world really did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing. And I'm not talking about success. I'm talking about inner happiness. you know there's a lot of successful people out there and they're not happy you know a lot of people some unsuccessful people and they're not happy i think true happiness on the inside is really i don't know it's a really powerful tool how did your family react to obviously coming to the hospital the kids like now it was almost like there was in that time the first shock that you're gay and then there's this shock of nearly losing you or there being a critical situation and how did you, how did Katie, the kids and family really?

37:16Yeah, I don't think there was really everyone understanding. I don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just trying to get through it because everyone was trying to process it themselves. I think everyone had questions and everyone's like, well, did he always know? And like, was that my fault? And did I say something when he was a kid? And when I told him about like gay men and sexuality and I think a lot of people were questioning, I don't know, did they know? Did they see something? And I think everyone was just trying to process something. It didn't really matter to me in terms of like, that was the time I came back to myself.

37:44So there was, there was a change in my brain where I really just was like, I'm going to allow myself to be, and I'm going to be respectful of everyone else. And I'm going to be supportive because it's just who I am, but I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be, I'm going to allow Chris to be, and I'm a gay man and that's it. And I imagine at that time, the shame that had been hanging over, obviously the kids went back to school. They were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret now the secret's out totally people love a secret yeah people love gossip you know i get it like we all do it everyone loves it oh what did you hear you know but i think once the secret's out people are like oh well you know it's just not as exciting it's all right well and so you found that kind of you were able to move on from it absolutely and it's listen it wasn't an overnight sense it was it was just a mental change for me i still had to go through the process uh what was that process like because it's like like you said you bottled it up for that many years, it comes out in this extremely dark way for you personally, shame, guilt.

38:45Thankfully, you're still alive. But what did that process actually look like? Because like you just said, and I don't want anyone to hear this and go, yeah, oh wow, one night just change. I don't want them to have that perspective either because that isn't true from the book. And I'm excited for be able to read. I'm encouraging people to read the book because I think when they engage with it and you're sharing of it, they'll get the context that you won't be able to realize like this wasn't an overnight change. It wasn't a one night switch. But walk me through the process you had to go through over the next few months and years to rebuild because you said you almost came home to yourself.

39:27Totally. But then you had to build this new house. Like anything, starting anything new it's it's the unknown and so i think i took every day as it came every hour as it came i've always been a big believer in therapy i think so helpful to be able to and i think it's i also think it's something that if someone is struggling that if you can and you have the resources too you should use because i think it's a really healthy way of being able to be and really be in the moment and really feel things and i think working with therapists to try and understand even making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a therapist and Kate did you know I think everyone was on their own journey but personally for me it was just like in every day as it came and there were good days and there were bad days and there were days I still felt really shameful and there were days I didn't feel so shameful but I think as with anything and when you're grieving something and I really was grieving a loss because I was grieving the loss of who I used to be and so in a way it was like a death because I was letting go of that I was letting go of this image that I created this man that I created and what came with that man the family exactly and so then I had to you don't have it all figured out I'll be honest with you though Jay I still don't have it all figured out I wake up every day and I'm still figuring out I think as humans we are I'm grateful for that because that means I'm always learning and I'm always growing and if I'm growing and that that makes me feel happy because I'm alive yeah you know no one ever has it all figured out me too I fully agree I don't I mean people think because you've got a success at work or you know you got it all figured out no one's got it all figured out yeah but I think for me I've always been really interested in other people's journeys of inspiration and understanding how someone else took on and listen my journey is not for everyone everyone's different and everyone has their own journey but sometimes you can just take something from it and you know for me that's why I did the book was I was trying to help people come back to themselves and I don't think I can do that if I'm not telling them my story.

41:26To say, I had a really dark moment too. A lot of people have had dark moments. I agree. Yeah. But it's brave and important to share it. And that's one of the reasons why I've been talking about the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies, because in the West, you have this before and after. So it's like, I used to be like this. Now I'm healed. I'm fit. I'm amazing. And the reality is the Eastern worldview would say everything's cyclical. You're always two steps forward, three steps back. 100%. You're always maintaining, you're always sustaining. You don't just, it's almost like you don't just end up with a six pack.

41:59It's like, that's something that takes daily work. One week is there and the next week I'm like, what happened? Yeah. And that's, and that's something that's physical that you can see and it's tangible. 100%. What to speak of emotional grieving and growth. And so that idea of before and after, it doesn't really exist. It's like before what and after what? 100%. The reality is you're constantly growing, each and every one of us, and me included too. I think even with the work I do, I definitely carry that baggage sometimes of people thinking I'm teaching from the place of perfection. And it's like, we're not trying to.

42:29Yeah. It's like, actually, I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in the right direction. And by the way, I do this as much for you as I do it for me. Because the more I talk about these ideas, the more, and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you feel to actually live them. And breathe them for yourself. And honestly, I feel like if there was something like this when I was a kid, when I was an eight-year-old kid or 12-year-old kid at school, and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience, probably could have saved me going in the direction I did and made other choices, you know, but that's life.

43:03I'm doing some research for my new book right now, and I was researching the – I was speaking to the head of suicide at Harvard. Yeah. And he told me two things that stayed with me. One was that one of his friends committed suicide, even though he knew his friend was the head of suicide at Harvard and never told him anything. And so it just shows how hard it is to even talk about it with someone even though your friend is an expert. And so just because you're a therapist or a coach or a guide, it's not easy for people to open up about these things. No, I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just talk about it, but I hope that in doing so that it will help someone else.

43:40And it's not to say any of the things I've done are right or wrong, but it was my journey and it led me to where I'm at now. And I think if you can take some of the shame away from people struggling in life and, you know, I think someone like me where people perceive me to have it all figured out, maybe to know that I've not, and there's been some really hard times in my life enables people to be able to talk about theirs too and feel free to be able to express them. And there isn't so much shame around it. Yeah. It doesn't make you weak. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time right now or you're struggling to pay the bills.

44:14or you're struggling to take care of the family you love. And everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's the beautiful thing of life. Did any men come back from your childhood over time that you feel reconciled their relationship with you or talked to you about it differently? The bullies or whatever? Bullies or even, yeah, bullies, family, like anyone that you think was negligent maybe or unaware at that time. Did you ever have any good conversations with any men as life went on? My brother actually is actually recently, we were very different. He was in a very different place in his life.

44:49And I was just a kid trying to grow up. You know, he was a good 10 years older than me, maybe 12 years, 12 years older than me. He actually met me in London. I was there for some shoot. And he said, I wanted to meet you. And I'm like, all right, well, okay. So we met and had dinner. And he actually apologized. And he sat down and he said, you know, I was really shit to you. I was really shitty, brother. And I don't think I realized how much pain you were in. And I think he was in his own pain because everyone's got their own journey. and you know I found forgiveness in that I found forgiveness and it was actually really really special like I say that's what I mean it wasn't an overnight thing this is literally 10 years later like my brother's apologizing but I also am mature enough and have done the work enough to recognize that he was going through a difficult time he used drugs and he was going for his own thing but you know his sort of acknowledgement of that still stopped me in my tracks and was like yeah that was tough but i forgive you and i think forgiveness is also a beautiful thing and letting go and and moving on yeah i like to move on i like to go right through something and then let it go and i think that's a beautiful thing it's brutal it's really hard so easy to avoid so many people avoid stuff complete avoid and completely just let's pretend it's not happening but for me what works is to really feel it and sit in it because then i feel like i can let it go yeah i mean it's really mature to have that worldview of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their pain at the same time as you are.

46:13And it's really hard to compare pains because you can't. They're all so unique. And everyone's valid. Yeah, everyone's got their own journey, but to accept that requires a lot of maturing depth. But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster, park whiz. Download the park whiz app today and save every time you park. Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Toyota is moving toward a more sustainable future by giving you the freedom to choose from a full lineup of hybrids, plug-in hybrids, regular gas, and 100 % electric vehicles.

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47:40Toyota, let's go places. Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles and Great Falls offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living and memory care services through various daily programs, chef prepared meals, safety and security, transportation, resort style amenities and high quality care. Take financial possession of your apartment by December 31st, 2025 and save. Discover more at brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal housing opportunity. All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. how does it feel now that you've said it out loud and talked about it how does that feel in your chest heart i mean i probably as you could tell as i was talking i was getting yeah quite tight chest if i ever even really talked about it my chest would get very tight i'm grateful for that i hope i never get used to it because it was a very extreme thing in my life and i'm an emotional guy i i love the people i love and but but i've learned not to feel shame anymore and I think part of dealing with shame is being able to talk about it being able to acknowledge it being able to look at it in the mirror and I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and hopefully others I feel lucky to be able to share my journey with other people hopefully you know someone finds it interesting or can give them a different perspective on their day and in their life and I've done that in like a outward sense of a visual with people know that with my job but i think the internal part is just really where it starts because when you marry those together that's when you have your real power i mean as we've been talking about this in this journey that none of us are perfect and it still shows up how does how does shame still show up in your life today like how does it still have that stronghold in i woke up this morning i cannot talk about that i can't talk about that on the podcast had this complete like panic i woke up this morning like oh my god i can't talk people are gonna think i'm crazy like that was a really dark time and it was a secret it's a secret and then I had to stop myself and I'm like ah it's a secret it doesn't need to be I'm not that person anymore no one is the people that we were in that time we've all moved on and evolved and I'm in a better place in my life now and I think with wisdom comes you know like you being able to educate people and share people that's like me in my hairdressing career learning all these amazing techniques keeping them all to myself and everyone said to me before like you really want to show your techniques people might copy you and i'm like god i hope they do i hope they have great hair you know everyone everyone deserves it i'll think of some new techniques i'm on to the next thing yeah so yeah i mean look we're human beings like i said none of us have it figured out but um i also have great people around me that be like chris remember you're helping others and i'm like yeah that's what i want to do you know as your journey grew did you find you'd share these stories with clients and talk to people that you were close to and no one really knows this about me jay so i think probably a lot of people might you know be like okay i didn't know that part of you because let's face it in human interaction most of the time it's like hi how are you look great you know can go yeah and then we move on we don't always open up the blinds and you know pull people in because it's difficult to do that you know even on social media people say to me oh you know you look like you have this polished social media you bring people in more it's difficult sometimes to do that when it's a camera in front of you and i think i've always been very one-on-one that's what i do but that's why I wanted to package it up and put it into something that people could read and take in themselves.

51:13I want to know what happened because this was all still while you were back home in England. And so this isn't even the career journey that we see now. That hadn't even began then in terms of the public part of it. How soon after did you end up moving to America and did everything shift? I stayed in, I moved to America when I was 31. So it was four years later. And during that time I'd started to travel backwards and forwards. I was kind of commuting backwards and forwards. I started working with an artist and they travel around. I was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work. I remember I got a call once I was in London and I had an email actually that came through and it was from JLo's team.

51:57And I remember thinking, oh, wow. But it was too much to kind of take in i was like jaylo's new it's like are you available you know we wanted to see if chris appleton was available for a vegas show and i was like oh that's interesting and then i thought well how does jaylo know who i am it was the beginning of social media and i was posting not really know what i'm doing but i was just posting all the different hairstyles i was doing so i guess when i look back my brand quite quickly was apparent i was always changing up i'm not your beachy wave kind of guy i like to do a look do the next one move on that's next i was very excited by her and I was just posting all that.

52:32So, uh, I kind of thought, well, that's cool, but I'm in England and that's Hollywood. Like that's like the land of dreams, you know, it's far, far, far away. And, uh, they weren't going to fly me out. So I said, all right, well, I just left it. And I thought maybe this is just like a, maybe it's like a fake email. You know, you get a lot of random emails. Hey, did you say madam, you've won 10 ,000? And I'm like, Oh, have I, you know, I don't reply to them anymore. But for when I was younger, I used to. So, uh, I left it and a few months later, I got another email. I thought, well, maybe this is a thing.

53:01Maybe I could go to LA. It seemed like the big shining star. And I said, that's where a lot of stars are. And I loved the excitement. And as a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by the power of transformation. Back then it was Madonna. She would have a different look per album. And I always loved how each look really started a trend. People would start to wear it in the streets. And it was like a whole vibe so i thought well maybe i go to la so i pretty much decided to do it i packed two suitcases i had a whole apartment in london that i'd worked very hard for a small basement one but nevertheless it was mine and i packed two suitcases and i moved to moved to la and um without even a plan no i had a dream no nothing i had a dream i was i was like how many followers did you have at this time?

53:52Four or five thousand. Right, right. Oh, wow. So really early days. Yeah, really early days. But I did have a hope and I thought, what's the worst that could happen? I'll come back if it doesn't work. So I remember I moved to America and for the first three or four months I didn't do anything, I'd spent all my money. LA's really expensive. And I remember thinking, I'm going to have to go back home. And then I got a call to do Christina. Well, there was her on The Voice, which I speak a little bit about in the book. It was an experience that didn't go so well. It was like my one opportunity and it seemed to go very wrong.

54:24You felt you didn't. It went wrong to go right. I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do my thing. It's The Voice. Everyone watches The Voice. But all you have to understand is when you live in the UK, it's like this many people see it. When you live in the US, it's like the world sees it. It just was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to The Voice and there was like three hours to do Glam. and the makeup artist went in inside the trailer and I just sat outside so I was like, okay, I'll just wait for a bit and an hour went by and I was like, well, maybe she don't need too much done to her hair, you know?

55:00And then two hours went by and I'm like, well, maybe like, the hair's probably done and I'm just going to be finessing it, you know? And then the last 20 minutes before the live show, I'm like, well, I mean, so I just go home and they called me in. So I thought, well, you know, she's definitely got her hair done it's gonna be good right 20 minutes i mean what else can it be so i'll go in and it wasn't good it wasn't done it was ready to be done so she's like what do you want to do and i was like well what i really want to do is have two hours to do yeah but whatever we've got 20 minutes waiting for you to go in or no no i think she was just like doing makeup probably got chatting and there was no will intention or anything it was just like whatever you know like you're in the chair every day you know and then i went in i don't know so i did that thing that headwresters do where you start moving the hair around.

55:48Have you ever sat in a chair and a hairdresser's kind of like, they're just kind of touching it and moving it around. It means we don't know what we're doing. We're kind of just like hoping something's going to happen. So I said to her, like, have you ever tried a wig? Because I thought that would be great because it'd be fast. And she's like, I don't like wigs. So I'm like, of course you don't like wigs. And then I really lost myself and I was like, why would you like anything I've got to do? Like, you see me. You see the little boy standing at the window. You see little Chris. like what am I doing here I'm a joke I'm a joke like why would I and I felt like that shame again and I felt small so small and I just had this moment it was actually the mother of my kids Kate who we are still best friends and she has always been so supportive throughout my career I called her on the way and she said to me look Chris if you don't make this work you're gonna have to come home because I have responsibilities I'm a dad I have the kids you know and I remember thinking if I don't make this work I'm gonna have to go home so I thought you know what let me do me and if she doesn't like it that's cool we're just not a match but if i don't do me and do everything i know i'm 31 i've spent my whole life learning this craft if i don't do me and walk well always kick myself so i said you know what you've never tried my wigs let's try it she was all right so put it on ahead and she was like oh and i'd finessed wigs i got really good at them because i used to work with cancer patients so and all these little tricks i kind of like from one area of my life then turned into making me good at it for stars and so i put it on ahead and there was no time she was like i like it so i put it on it was like no time she literally got up and ran off onto the onto the show and then she's on live tv and you know that was a time of social media because i was also very nervous because well everyone's gonna have an opinion on this and when it's good it's great yeah and when it's bad it's not yeah because when it's when it's bad you'll know about it when it's good it's okay yeah exactly yeah so bad it's yeah it's bad so um i remember she came off the stage and she it was like a little break and um she was talking to someone like this and she looked over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig.

57:44And then just carried on talking. And in that moment, I knew that it was great. Like she looked great. And then we worked together, you know, it was the beginning of my career. I don't even know what to tell you that the wig fell off of something. I don't want people to think I am being arrogant and telling that story because I had put so much of my whole life into my craft. I wanted to learn it inside out, upside down, left to right. I knew every aspect of her. for me to be able to be able to stand there and know that it was the right thing to do. I wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this was right.

58:16And therefore, if it didn't work, it's like a relationship. If it didn't work, it's okay. I tried. If I don't do what I know to be true and good, then I'll always kick myself. And I'd hate that. And I think part of my coming out story and, you know, seeing my full self again was not ever letting myself not be seen. And, you know, I wanted to present as I was and the knowledge I knew. and that was it was a success story and that was the beginning of my career in Hollywood it just rolled on once people saw her hair because we did this kind of really icy wig and then I did these hoops in the hair and then I started working with Ariana and then Kim and then Adele and it was J-Lo and it just Katy Perry just just evolved you know who's doing that that's cool you know pop stars or artists I had to change their hair up so it's like okay so it was very fast yeah that That was very fast, but I was very prepared because I'd spent 31 years of my life learning it.

59:07It's really interesting because I'll tell you later, I have a very similar story of, because when I first moved out here, everyone was asking me to teach them how to meditate or coaching them or guiding them spiritually on their life. And so I was meeting a lot of people and our work, funnily enough, is similar, even though it's very different. It's very intimate. It's very one-on-one. 100%, yeah. You're really present in someone's life. Yeah. And I had a similar experience. But the thing I found as well was if I was trying to be what they wanted me to be, I couldn't be that. I just knew how to do what I do.

59:39And that's really hard when you feel inexperienced. You feel like an imposter. And you feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt too. Totally, which we all feel. Which we all feel. Even when you have success or whatever, you know. Yeah. And you come and you're like, oh no, but this is a bigger world. It's a different world and it's different eyeballs. and then you're just like, no, actually I have to trust the work that I've done up until now. And that doesn't make me egotistic. Totally. It just makes me experienced. I've got to trust the experience I have. 100%. And most importantly, it makes me me.

1:00:08So I love that message from your experience there, which was if you hadn't done the wig, it would have just looked terrible. Yeah, totally. Because you wouldn't have been able to do anything with it in that time. Exactly. And so you had to trust your instincts, which was my experience says, let's go with the wig. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's amazing. And then obviously you became such good friends with Kim and everyone. It's like, what's been your favorite part about building these amazing relationships? Because the work is so intimate. It is so connected to them. I'm so grateful to work with everyone I've worked with.

1:00:38I always just feel very lucky to work in their presence because they're amazing at what they do. You know, they're an artist in their realm. And to be a part of it, I just feel very grateful. And, you know, Kim, I've become very good friends with her. I have so much respect for her. To see her up close, to see, you know, the world sees one thing. They see Kim Kardashian. and I don't really see her like that. She is Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an amazing mother. She is a businesswoman, you know, to see what she did with Skims and build that and just to see how she is with everyone that walks in the door.

1:01:07You know, she speaks to, whether it's an assistant, a lighting person, she says hello to everyone, introduces herself. She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person. Yeah, she's world class. A really, really great person. And so I think organically you spend so much time together with the people you work with, obviously there's a friendship there. And I'm just incredibly grateful I've got to work with the people I do and see them in the light I do. Because I guess not everyone does. Because again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a vision or an image or a quick clip on TV or a clip here on social media.

1:01:36And we all make assumptions. It's what we do. It's okay. But I just feel grateful to be able to see a side that maybe others haven't. Yeah, I'm sure you get people asking all the time. What do people like? I'm sure you get that all the time from people back at home as well. Like, oh, what do people really like behind the camera and it's I always find it so refreshing to be able to be like no a lot of the people you watch they're actually really wonderful and nice there isn't some big conspiracy you know it's just they're just wonderful humans who are really nice and they're really great at what they do what they do yeah what they do and and yeah they treat everyone with respect and it and it isn't as juicy as you want it to be no totally yeah so with your journey with that piece it feels like, I mean, you said it earlier, you were like, it only gets harder.

1:02:22And it feels like even though now you were having this success and that was moving fast and you have become the person you've become where you are the go-to person in the city, but across the States for all of these people to turn to, whether they're musicians, models, talent. And then I think now it's been like just a year from your divorce again. And that was with a very public relationship. Was that the first time you'd had a public relationship. It was definitely the first time that I'd experienced that. magnitude of people being so invested in my private life. What was it like having such a public romantic relationship as someone who, for years before that, let alone having a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship with a man?

1:03:14Yeah. This is the first time I've ever spoke about this. And I think people have this perception from social media, probably like I said, I have it together. I work with these amazing people. Life looks glamorous. So from the outside, it probably looks like I got it all together. But the truth is, especially during that time, I was going through a lot of private pain. And then you go with all the online speculation part. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid and people have an opinion on your life. And that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying to deal with things.

1:03:51I think for me, what really helped me was not being okay. And, you know, I've always believed in therapy and I worked with a therapist to really sit in my feelings and really go through them and understand how I felt. And that is really brutal to go through it. But for me, coming out the other side, there's a part of you that feels like you can, you know, reflect on it and move on. one of the biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment from what I do is all about visual you know it's what I've done my whole life and even what people see of me is this visual representation of Chris Appleton but I think for me there was a real piece in finding alignment and inner peace on the inside and like I said that wasn't an easy process but I think when you align those two when you genuinely feel good on the inside, I think that's when your real power comes in place.

1:04:46And I think, you know, just because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you have to go and explain to everyone about your life. And I think for me, I really wanted to deal with it with peace and deal with it my way. You know, it's the interesting thing about living in the public eye is people have an opinion and that's okay. I don't mind people saying good and bad things because you put yourself out into the arena, you're going to get that. But I think for me as a dad, I wanted to protect my kids. I always want to do that. And I'm very aware any relationship I go into, there will be a conversation around that.

1:05:20And so I think for me, making sure that I had that internal alignment, which I never had my whole life, finding that and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was a really beautiful thing. And you can love someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I think you learn so much from it. I think any relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it. I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries, in terms of how I want to be loved, how I want to love. And that's a beautiful thing because it means you're always growing and evolving. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

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1:07:16Equal housing opportunity. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now back to the discussion. It was you who filed for divorce, right? Like you were the one who ended it. Yeah. When you look at that in the perspective of the whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy again. No, but I think, again, like, it doesn't mean you don't learn something about yourself. And just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's a bit like going to buy a house. Like, you know, we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright, lots of space.

1:07:51I don't like confined and dark. Some people do. And that's okay. It's just not aligned. And I think one of the biggest things I realized about any relationship I've been into or go into is the importance of alignment. And I think for a long time I didn't have that. And I think finding that within myself has been special. It's about growth. And like I say, as long as I'm growing and evolving, then I'm alive and that feels great. Why do you think you didn't have that alignment maybe when you met? Because it moved fast, right? Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think sometimes it means you're hopeful.

1:08:26and I think any relationship I've ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart and I have no regrets about that. I think we shame people too much for leading with an open heart and I think the sad part about that, especially when it doesn't work out and I think the sad part about that is you can learn to retract and protect yourself but I would rather love and fall than to never feel anything at all and I think I'd rather experience something and feel alive than to never put my foot out in the water and I think as long as you're growing and evolving from it and things don't always go to plan I think as long as you go through it and go through the process of healing I think that's really important then I think you're doing all you can I don't know I feel like I felt like a responsibility to just really look at everything as any situation I've ever been in And I've always tried to look back and reflect of like, do I feel like I'm happy with where I am in my life, how it is visually and how I feel internally?

1:09:25And, you know, if not, being able to sit in that and sit with it and process it and go through it has been a really magical part because it doesn't really matter what anyone else says. I know my truth and I feel happy. I really value the people that are in my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really hard for my career. I love the people. I've supported family and I'm really grateful for that. And ending doesn't mean it, it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended, you know, as many relationships I've been through in my life, friendships, relationships, they've ended. And I've tried to learn something each time from that experience.

1:10:02Yeah. I really appreciate your take on not closing off and not kind of building a wall to, and you are right. We do make people feel bad for falling in love or moving fast or whatever it may be. And I think also coming from a South Asian culture, I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce. Yeah. And looking at divorce as a failure or a negative thing when actually I look at my community and I'm like, I wish this person would get divorced and this person would get divorced. Because you know the truth. And when they open up to you. 100%. And so it's interesting. We've made people feel bad for maybe opening their heart and falling in love.

1:10:47Falling in love, of course. And we also make people feel bad for ending something. And I get it. Like, I get it. And people love to say, like, oh, I knew, you know, that would happen and that wouldn't last. But I don't know. It's just who I am. I go in wholeheartedly into every friendship, every relationship, you know, every family member. And I've learned to protect myself and also honor myself. Like I say, I keep mentioning alignment, but it really is a key part of, like, my healing is to be able to leave a situation. when it's not right anymore. Why did it feel again important for you to talk about it now as part of this journey with the book?

1:11:23I think there's just always, I think every part of my life, if there's something in the tabloid or people want to know, I think I would like to sort of share my experience so people can relate and maybe not feel so alone. My biggest goal is to make people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from. It doesn't matter what the situation was that you got stuck in. You can move on. You can evolve your life and you can have your comeback at any age. At any age, it's never too late. So many people think it's too late. They're not 20. They think they're done. And I think, I don't know, some things are for a season and some things are forever.

1:11:59That's life. Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated. We all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship, whether you're willing to admit it or not. and like I said that that's just life it's about alignment and if something's not aligned it's okay whether it's a relationship or a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in your life I think so many people get so fearful of not moving on or change change is so scary to people change I know by just people changing their hair how terrifying that'll be that all people are going to recognize me or people are going I'm like yeah that's great see a new you see actually a you that's this is It's actually going to be great for you.

1:12:43You're going to have a whole new look. You could have been stuck with that old hairstyle that you showed me a minute ago your whole life. You know what I mean? Like, thank God so much. Yeah, no, thank God. Yeah, literally. You know, it's like, but if you don't know, you don't know. At the time, I bet you thought you were killing it. I thought I was. I straightened my hair. Why do you straighten your hair? I don't know, because someone told me to. You have beautiful, natural texture. Someone bringing you back to that. Like, I don't know, it kind of helps you form who you are. Whereas maybe you conform to society because society said you should straighten curly hair.

1:13:11Yeah. I don't know what the answer was, but we're all conditioned to that, following the lead and following the pack. And you don't always have to do that. To not do that, you have to have some balls. And I think part of finding that strength is to be able to sit with yourself. And I can honestly say any situation now that I'm ever in, I can sit with myself and I can process it. And it's not always easy. In fact, doing the work is brutal. It's never easy. but the last thing I feel like I need to do is tell everyone because it's my journey it's my story and you know when I'm ready which is why I'm doing the book now you know you can share it how did you protect your peace at the time because I imagine it's not easy when you're going through it headlines whether they whether you take them seriously or react or not they still hurt and yeah everyone's asking you know I know what it feels like where you're sometimes I find that when you also have family that's not connected to the industry yeah I'll always get a load of messages as well from back home from friends and family going, oh, I just saw this thing about, you know, whatever.

1:14:14I just saw that. And I'm like, guys, like I'm dealing with it. Like, you know, it's, this is normal in my world now, but it's not normal for them. And I can find that that's hard sometimes. Was there any, was there any of that feeling of that kid looking out the window? Like, was that any of that coming back through this as well? Or how did you protect your peace at that time? I think there's a lot of private pain, like I say, no one is immune to it. But I think for me working with like, I have an amazing therapist I've always worked with and I'm so pro-therapy. Is it the same person that you worked with the whole time?

1:14:45Yeah. Wow. For how many years? Maybe the last, well, since I moved to America. So nine years. Wow. That's impressive. And for me, therapy just enables you to like sit in it. Therapy really helps you to do that. And therapy really helps you to move on and let go of situations that, you know, no longer serve you. So it's been around two years now. Where's your headspace at now? I think I just feel grateful to have had the experiences I've had in my life and to have the knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them and let go of it and move on. And I think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful I had that.

1:15:28Each and every experience, good and bad, because it led me to where I'm at now. I think I'm in a good place. Not every day, but more so than I ever have been in my life where I've abandoned myself. And it's such an easy thing to do. And I'm just so aware of doing that now. It's like I can't not see it. Once you see yourself, you know how many people look in the mirror every day? You look in the mirror maybe, I think the average is 12 times a day. They say on average it's an hour a day from brushing your teeth to, you know, checking your hair, whatever it is, having your hair cut. An hour of your day of looking yourself in the mirror, so many people see a reflection.

1:16:05Not everyone looks at themselves. We just look, but no one actually really looks. And part of my job and my journey has been, I guess, showing people the real mirror so people can really see themselves and be seen. And a lot of people are not seen. And when you really see people and you break it down to like, why have you always done this? Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it. Once you see the pattern, and once you break it down, you can change it. That's really empowering.

1:16:38I did it with hair for a long time, but I didn't realize I was also doing it in an internal way. And everyone can relate to the people saying, your hairdresser's your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing that. It's such a real experience. It's part of it. The difference is I used to do it with everyone else and I'd see them. And you know what? Never saw myself. I didn't see myself for 27 years of my life. I didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make other people see themselves than for me to look at myself. When I saw myself, I couldn't not see it anymore. I couldn't not see who I was and who I'd become.

1:17:10And that defining moment of my life changed every decision moving forward. And so if I'm a bad friendship, if I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm in a bad work environment, I'll leave it. If it no longer serves me. And if I feel like I've done everything I can to be the best person I can, and no one's perfect. Humans are messy. That's okay. but I've learned to respect myself enough to be able to you know go back to that little boy at the window and say it's okay you know you don't have to be in that anymore you don't have to feel alone you can be seen and I hope that's what everyone does and maybe finds a bit of that when they read the book and obviously it's called your roots don't define you it's about roots and it's a double-edged sword but it it is such a powerful thing that if you actually stand and look in the mirror and look at yourself.

1:18:02This book is for anyone that looks back and is like, is this it? Or anyone that looks in the mirror and is like, I don't really know why I look the way I look. Or anyone that does have some success, but it's so miserable. Or some more times just people thinking there must be more to life. Hopefully this will help people feel like they can change that and they can have their comeback and they can transform not only the way they look on the visual because everyone knows I do that. But if they can do it internally, I'm telling you now their life will change. And I hope people can take what I learned because I feel like everyone deserves to be free.

1:18:41I see people in the supermarket. I see people walking in the street and I'm like, I wish you knew what I knew. And I think it's just really special to be able to share that journey. What do you see in the mirror now when you look in the mirror? You see yourself. It depends on the day. Some days it's all right. And other days, I'm still like, I really should lose five pounds. Do my hair look better blonde? You read a comment on social media, like, you look way better blonde. And I'm like, oh, I have a better blonde. It's all right. We all have those voices in the head. I hope they're always there.

1:19:12It keeps me alive. I just laugh at myself now. I think I try and treat most things with humor. If I do see a headline about myself, or if I do see someone say something, I'll try and laugh it off. Because otherwise, what else are you going to do? You know, it's like, I probably couldn't have done that before. If I went back 10 years, I probably couldn't do that. I probably would have gone crazy and been like, oh my God. Now I'm like, it's okay. It's just someone else's opinion. That's all right. You know, I can actually laugh at it. I'm like, well, you know what? I probably do look a bit like I need to lose five pounds or I don't know.

1:19:42I can relate to it or just at least laugh at it. We were talking about red carpet pictures. They can make you crazy. You know, like you think pretty good about yourself. Yeah, I'm good. You know, I feel like I look good. You take a picture. is that what I look like? Oh man, tell me about it. Oh my God, I saw this picture of myself and I was like head to toe in brown. And for some reason, the background was red and my hair was kind of the same color. I look like a log. And that, you know, it's this text chain where I'm texting my head. I'm like, I look like a log. And I just laugh at it. You know, it's all right.

1:20:08It's fine. It's just, nothing's perfect. You get over it after you realize there's more bad pictures of you and Getty than good ones. 100%. And then you go, all right, I'm good with it. And that's the same with like a headline or whatever. I'm like, all right, it's cool. you know fine whatever it is I mean it's not easy I'm not I'm not saying I laugh everything off at all I'm I have I'm a dad and my number one goal is to protect my kids you know because they're going to see everything my family see everything but I've also learned to be able to know that if I'm aligned sometimes I have to go back to that alignment and have to sit back in it I'm okay what have the kids read the book have your kids yeah they have So, well, I think it's kind of for them, it's interesting because I'm dad.

1:20:51I think one of the proudest moments of my life is the fact that they have been through so much on this journey with me, but they can still look at me and call me dad proudly. And that means everything to me. And I don't want to have any secrets. I want to share my journey with them. and as difficult as some of those topics are, I'd rather show them and say, that was really hard and I moved on. And this is where I'm at now. And I didn't just move on because it was easy. I moved on because I went through it and it was brutal and it was challenging. But do the work and it will lead you to a better place.

1:21:30We reached out to the kids and they sent us a note for you. To my kids? Really? Really? And so there's one each. Okay. I haven't read them yet, so I'm going to hear them for the first time too. I'm going to ask you to read Kitties Out Loud. Okay. You can read it out for us because I've not read it either, so I wanted to save it for you. There are so many things I've wanted to say over the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put them into words. But today I just want to tell you how proud I am truly to be your daughter. you've been my example of strength, compassion and integrity for as long as I remember.

1:22:11For every chapter of life you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices that I'll never fully understand and you've given me love in a way that made me feel safe, valued and seen. Even now watching you open your heart and share your story to the world I'm constantly inspired by your vulnerability and courage and that's rare and a beautiful thing you've given me so much more than i could ever thank for your love has shaped me and your belief in me has carried through i love you so much and i'm forever proud to be your daughter of kitty oh god i don't know i'm shaking

1:22:57oh god I don't know what to say oh that's how you get me my kids I'm just I'm just so grateful that I have them and that they've been a part of this journey and like I said the biggest achievement of my whole life is that they can call me dad and say it with pride because there's been so many times I've not felt proud of myself and I have not been kind to myself. And I think a lot of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. And, yeah, having them is the greatest gift. Beautiful letter. And this one's from Billy. You know what? I remember that night telling them about, you know, being gay.

1:23:46It was, especially for a boy, it's kind of what guys say. You're gay, you're gay. It's always pinned as a bad thing. And so I knew he was going to face so much going back to school of people talking and people whispering and people saying stuff to him. They both have gone through so much they never let me see because they knew I was going through my own pain. So like, you know, this means a lot. Okay, dear dad, where do I even start? One of my first memories as a kid is you dressing up as Superman to surprise me on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero. I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older, I came to see the real superhero wasn't the costume.

1:24:33It was the man inside. You went from cutting hair in a small local salon to taking a massive leap and moving across the world with nothing. And somehow, across the chaos, you built a life out there. You've worked with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on TV, and now even written a book. and for all of that you're still the same guy who makes people laugh and lights up every room and who does everything he can to make the people around him happy but what sticks with me the most isn't just what you've accomplished is what you've taught me you've shown me how to be confident myself and not to care what other people think and you've taught me how to stay motivated to reach for the stars and most importantly you've taught me how to be respectful kind and caring and beyond proud to be on.

1:25:21Keep doing you, Dad. I love Frumby. Oh, God. Wow. I'm nearly into this listening. It's so beautiful, man. Yeah, that's really special. It's amazing. I feel so proud to have to raise two kids who love you that much. That's pretty special. Yeah, I am. But, you know, any parent listening knows that their only goal is to make sure their kids grow up with the least amount of pain. And we all know the harsh reality of life. You know, when you're a kid, you're so innocent and life is so free. And as we grow older, there's so much baggage thrown at us. And I think the only thing you can do is try and understand it.

1:26:03And I spent many of my years, like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to me and shake that off and shake that package off. and if I can save them, if I can save them having to go through some of the struggles I went through because I didn't allow myself to be, then I did okay with that, you know? All right, should we move on? I'm so, no, Chris, I'm so grateful. Just let in. I'm so grateful to you for, you know, your time and energy writing this book. I love about how you talk. When people dive in, they'll learn about the personal hater that we all have inside of us. Yeah. They'll learn about how you talk about how shame lives in the shadows.

1:26:44They'll learn about this whole journey of what it means to make a comeback. And also to realize that it's never too late. It really is never too late. And sometimes we spend years of our life trying to figure that out. But once you have that realization, and hopefully the book will be that realization, that it isn't too late and maybe a few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things. Chris, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. Okay. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. So Chris Templeton, this is your final five. Question number one is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

1:27:20Live and let live. I think everyone's experience is different. If there's one thing I've learned in this time on earth is that everyone's going through something. Everyone has had heartache. Everyone has had trauma and different baggage. and everyone is going through some things. I think to try and remember that and let people live and be. We're so judgmental sometimes and we, like I said, love to put people in boxes and that's something that we all do. If you're aware of it, you can understand and be more forgiving towards people. My second question is, what is the worst advice you've ever received?

1:28:04I guess stay in your lane. I think I've been told so much in my life to fit in a box. There's no boxes you need to fit in. Question number three, your favorite look you've ever done for Kim and J-Lo? Easy. Kim's met Ball. She did the Mugler look. It was like the finger waves look. And J-Lo Super Bowl. Everyone, I think unanimously, they tell me they're my favorite. But those are your favorites too. They're everyone else's favorite. What are your favorites? I want to know what your favorites. Listen, I'm going against the grain. Everyone's going to come for me. but I love a blonde Kim and taking her platinum was a whole thing.

1:28:39So probably a blonde Kim. I love that. And then JLo. I don't know. I really like it when we did like a short, we did a short hairstyle for her on the cover of a law and I loved it. Just cause it was so different. I love seeing someone really take on a different character and a different story and just try it out, you know, fearlessly. I love that. Question number four. What do you see when you look at the inner mirror now? So you told us you on the outside, sometimes you're like five pounds blonde hair yeah what does the inner mirror look like i think i see a guy that doesn't always have it together but absolutely tries his best to be the best version of himself primarily to inspire my kids that they can do the same and now this book so what people feel like they can share that journey with me and i want to hear other people's stories i want to hear of a people's journey.

1:29:32My greatest pain growing up was that no one spoke. No one spoke about it. No one spoke about their experience. And I think the more people that speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more we can all learn and accept and grow. Well said. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. Yeah. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in the mirror, and just says, is this enough? Is this what I wanted? Is this where I'm at? And if so, great. But at least just to stop and really look, how did we get to where we got?

1:30:10To realize that if you want to change, you can. Because like I say, I've always done that with my hands and sitting in the chair. But I realized there was this whole world that people don't know about. But once you know, you can't unsee it. Chris Appleton, the book is called Your Roots Don't Define You. everyone who's been listening and watching. I cannot wait to see what you're taking away. I want to see all the TikToks, the Instagram reels, the stories. I love seeing what you extract from these conversations, apply in your own life. If you've had a friend or family member that you haven't even known what to say to because they've been on a similar journey, send this episode to them.

1:30:46I think it's going to help a lot of people on their personal journey of transformation and reflection and make sure that you keep coming back. Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss out on an episode because it's stories like this that we built this platform for where people can come and talk about the ups and downs, the real healing and what that actually looks like. And I highly recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book, Your Roots Don't Define You. It's available for pre-order right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so much for trusting me, for trusting the platform, for being so open and honest.

1:31:22It's a real privilege to be here and share it with you because I feel like you too have shared your journey and it's inspiring to a lot of people. So, you know, you're a big inspiration to me. So to be here is very honored. So thank you for your time. I genuinely have so much respect for you to be able to talk about some really, really difficult stuff. And I think in the world right now, this message is really, really needed. There's a lot of people that this book, this interview is going to help. And so thank you. And I'm so grateful to you for using your platform to spread this message. You could talk about your life.

1:31:54You could teach people how to build a big brand. You could teach people to do so many things, but the fact that you've told them about your truth and how they can find theirs, it's a really beautiful offering and service. So thank you, Chris. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you, mate. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child. You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, that is so unfair because that's not who I am. And that really gets to me sometimes.

1:32:25But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am. Why does anything else matter? This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. And Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel, and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide.

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