CHRIS HEMSWORTH EXCLUSIVE: The Untold Story of His Anxiety, Fear of Failure & The Diagnosis That Changed Everything

30:11I've had a similar experience with public speaking where I've been public speaking for years on stages. And if I really care, and that's my narrative kicking in, if I really care, I'll still get sweaty palms. I'll still be shaking a little. I'll feel my heart rate go up. And I've learned that all of those things are just a sign that I care. Because I know if I get asked to speak to someone, I don't really care, then I won't feel any of those things. And so I'm like, oh, I feel like there's some stakes here and this is important. And then I have my practices to embody that and feel good about that.

30:41But then at the same time, when I went on tour two years ago and we were doing nearly 50 shows across the world, I was feeling a completely different level of anxiety than I'd ever felt. And I remember two days before when we were in rehearsals, I was just feeling really tight chested. I talked to my doctor and I went in for a checkup and they're like, it's just stress. And I was like, why am I stressed? I do this all the time. but there's always what what still makes you nervous or what still gives you a little bit of that stress now i mean this stuff you know the press you know walking on a set it all it all definitely awakens that that that feeling and then it's a constant sort of dance and adaptable sort of um experience but i think um you know i probably have a much easier time now playing a character than I would being myself.

31:30Like, in fact, with the series Limitless, that was very new to me to, you know, be in the documentary space and play Chris. And I felt really uncomfortable from that. And I got better with it probably in the second season and this last episode with my dad. But earlier on, it was like, I have nothing interesting to say. I'm not educated on these topics. And I'm sort of a guinea pig in the experience. So maybe that's a good thing. but you're far more critical of yourself than you are, I think, of someone you're pretending to be. Like you said before, it's a signaling that you care, I guess, that discomfort, that anxiety.

32:06It's a signal that it's important on some level, and it's something that should be respected and paid attention to rather than, oh, I'm anxious. How dare I be anxious? And then the criticism and the judgment, and then it's like slippery slope. Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting to me how so many of us, it's easier to pretend to be someone than play ourselves, not just for actors, but all of us, whether you're playing a performance at work and a persona or a persona with your friends. And it's so hard to just let go of that persona. And it's almost like when I speak to comedians, they're always like, yeah, I just feel everyone just wants me to be funny all the time.

32:43And they just feel that constant pressure around friends, family, everything. And they just want to be normal and have a bad day or whatever it may be. And, uh, you know, everyone feels that pressure to perform in a certain way. And it's almost like we're waiting for the person we can take off the outfit around and just kind of let go. I remember my mom talking to me about this years ago and, and she was a high school teacher at the time. And I said, Oh, I'm nervous about this, that, and the other, and being on a set and a producer and this. And she goes, it's the same in any environment. You go, she goes, me as the teacher.

33:14Okay. Well, the principals, the producer and my students or the audience or, you know, and my work colleagues or the other cast members. And in any line of work you're faced with this, it's this sort of a human experience that you can't escape. And she talked about the same thing about kind of understanding that and accepting that it always is a challenge. It's always a navigation of sorts and rather than looking at it as my experience is unique and special to everyone else's and has more pressure than yours or this, that. Now, that's the trapping. As soon as you kind of understand it is more common than uncommon, I think there's some comfort in that.

33:55Like I remember listening to Anthony Hopkins and Cate Blanchett, people I'd worked with and admired and looked up to talking about imposter syndrome and this might be my last job. and thinking, really? But there was deep truth in that. You know, they still had that doubt, but aware of the fact that maybe that doubt was a good thing because it kept you humble, it kept you motivated, it kept you pushing forward and searching as opposed to thinking you have all the answers, you know, and then there's a sort of, and there's a lack of humility, yeah. Yeah, well, you've talked about that as well, right?

34:29You've talked about that idea of fearing saying no, because what if it all disappears? and when I read that you said that I was like wow like that you just wouldn't expect that but we have these codings from whether when we were young or wherever we picked them up where there's like a sense of like oh well this could all just go away like yeah we're growing up in a house you know loving beautiful household and great parents but we had no money and I remember the kind of financial burden that was on my parents and overhearing conversations about bills and you know them borrowing money from our grandparents or their parents to you know before payday came on every Thursday or you know the$20 we might have had in our piggy bank kind of saying can we borrow that we'll give it to you next week and and not that they ever put that on us by any means and probably tried to shelter us from that and and but being very aware of it so I felt that responsibility and that need to remove that pressure for them from a very early age and but still this crazy, irrational thought that, well, it's going to run out or it's going to be taken away and I won't be able to do that thing.

35:41It's like, well, you've already done that thing. You know, they're all taken care of, family, cousins, friends, you know. And not to say my career couldn't end tomorrow, but financially that wouldn't be a concern due to kind of what we've put in place. And it's, I don't know, it's irrational, it's illogical. and but again I think it I don't know it's sort of I don't mind a little bit of that just to keep you hungry yeah but it has to be tempered like all of it yeah because of the insanity of too much of that thinking is is incredibly detrimental and you never enjoy what you have because it's always about oh I need to get more and it's just not enough or what else can I do I do to secure this even more and it's this obsession with with with safety I think we all have and the need for abundance and security.

36:30But then I look at my own childhood where I couldn't have felt more secure and safe. And so money isn't the answer to that, yet you sort of trick yourself into thinking it is. And whether that's from societal sort of understandings and expectations and the sort of our relationship to money as human beings and how we signal or represent safety and comfort in the wrong spaces maybe, but it's a constant navigation, isn't it? Yeah. It's almost like what you're talking about is the power of pattern. It's almost like when you've had a thought that has been practiced. So with you giving the examples of like, oh, we're going to borrow this money here and we'll pay it back next week.

37:13And so you're constantly living in a cycle of, we don't have enough. We're going to have to figure it out. And that doesn't disappear when an external situation changes. And we can all relate to that. I mean, I can relate to it in my life too. And what I love about what you said the most was, it's not about, I think everyone over, and I don't like it when anyone says this whole money can't buy happiness stuff because I'm like, well, it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people. And I don't think that's the point, but I love what you just said about this safety idea that you felt safe growing up and it wasn't because of that.

37:44And I think that's an even more powerful truth where it's like, oh, wait a minute. What about if it was about safety? and we all want to feel safe and secure. I felt very safe and secure because my, I've always described it as my mom's love was like this protective shield where I never grew up ever questioning whether I was lovable or not. My mom loved me so much. And that makes me feel very safe. And that wasn't because we had money growing up and it wasn't because we always knew what was coming next. It was because you felt loved and you felt safe and secure because of that. For sure. And so there are certain problems that money solves and it's not safety.

38:19Yeah. and it can provide and help for that. But safety is a more core emotional need that comes from other things. That's another thing I've talked to my mom about, that the fact that the lessons I learned and the person I am and my brothers who we are, you know, growing up in that household, we didn't have money. Well, now my kids, we have money. What's that going to do to them? Are they going to not learn the same lessons that we've had and have the same sense of sort of gratitude and appreciation for things? And she said, you could look at, you know, households that had a lot of money, households that had little money, and you could pick about the same amount of successful stories versus unsuccessful.

38:57And at the end of the day, it comes down to love, security, safety. Do I feel like I'm connected and part of this household and appreciated and that I'm safe to explore who I am as an individual or not? You know, regardless of the sort of exterior, the larger environmental sort of superficial elements of it. It's around those core components of love and connection. And that always gives me comfort, you know, when I'm sitting here thinking I'm destroying my kids by having this big house and, you know, abundance and all this and so on. But there's always a complex one to sort of navigate in any space, I guess.

39:33Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's true, though. I think it's what you've been saying this whole conversation already is that you keep talking about how everything's somewhat of a gift and a curse. Yeah. And it is that, right? Like everything is. And as soon as you accept that everything's binary and there is no black or white, it is all gray. Yeah. And it is all teaching people to see the gray and see the nuance and see the complexity and recognizing that complexity is simplicity in the sense of as soon as you accept that it is all of it, then all of a sudden it's simple. Whereas when you're trying to find a definitive right way of doing it, it's pretty impossible to find it and you can rack your brain forever.

40:12It is. And they sort of, the thing you're searching for only exists because of the thing you're not searching for, like the polarity of things. And it's the, you know, there's no north without a south. There's not a one-sided mountain that you, you know, you only know love because you know grief. And I had this, a friend of mine passed away recently and I had this, the normal response of grief and anguish and pain and the why and the questions. And then through that, all of a sudden, this lightness and this stillness, because all the trivial things that I was ruminating around day to day all of a sudden dissipated.

40:51And it was like, wow, it's that simple. It can be gone in a second. And I wouldn't know one without the other. And so the sort of grief is as much a blessing as the love is and the joy because they coexist. You know, there isn't an individual experience. You can't have one without the other. And that for me, I find helps navigate the complicated spaces of life and the sort of moments of adversity is kind of realizing that they're sort of one and the same thing. and I don't exist there all the time, but every now and then I feel like I get a glimpse of it and there's a quiet peacefulness to it.

41:36It's like the louder it gets, all of a sudden things just stop. Alan Watts talks a lot about that. I love his philosophy around what he presents in that way. Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean, it was a sort of out of nowhere kind of tragedy as we all experience at some point. but I just remember having that moment, that sort of very odd sort of lightness in amongst the grief, which I'm going to pause for a moment and consider where that came from and where that stems from and what that sort of, what that message is. Yeah, yeah. It's how your grief is only as deep as your love could be.

42:16Yeah, yeah. If you don't feel grief about something like that, well, it's probably because you didn't have that love and care. and it's, but yeah, it's not that that's easy to recognize in the moment or pause. And, but when you get that access, it's something to worth holding onto. Yeah. And that was the trying to reconcile the sort of dichotomy around those two feelings. You know, the, the sort of, I almost then followed this guilt that I wasn't feeling as sad as I was a moment ago. And it's like, what is this sort of complex kind of, you know, push and pull between those two states. and it's like, I don't know, living in the questions rather than needing the answers to it, you know, all the time.

42:55Sort of the answers of trying to define the definitive why to something and the absolute certainty of something is just like a danger and a trapping. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, and we will just, and the funny thing is, even if you get a perfect right answer, you still won't be satisfied with it. It'll change tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. Because then you'll be like, wait a minute, if I look at it from this angle, you know, and it's, it's fascinating how the human mind wants completion. Yeah. Yeah. But still keeps locating all the incomplete loops. Absolutely. To get lost in. It's like the only certainty is uncertainty.

43:30Yeah. You know, the only constant is inconstant. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's a, it does a number on you for sure. It's like, I don't know if you're, when you were a kid, you're kind of lying awake at night thinking about how big the universe is or what happens when we die and the nothing and then like, uh-oh. It's like your brain arrives at a place of nothingness, you know, and that's as terrifying as it is kind of liberating. Yeah. Does it help to have brothers in the industry too? Because, I mean, that's rare. Yeah. That, you know, all of you have got incredible careers and it's like, how does that, is it helpful to be able to share some of these challenges or do you find that that's not really the case?

44:08No, it is definitely. Yeah. It's sort of a point of reference or a, there's a camaraderie for sure and a support network between the three of us. In your sort of quieter moments of reflection, you can kind of go, is this normal? Am I kind of, you know, wrong to feel this, that and the other? And what's your experience in that? And so absolutely having someone who is a complete sort of, you know, safe house for those discussions is a real benefit. Yeah, it's really powerful. I feel like that's the hardest thing for most artists or athletes or people who go and live otherworldly lives. And then it's almost like you have all your best friends back home or the people you grew up with.

44:50And you need them because they're the only ones who remind you of where you started and where it came from. But they don't understand the new world that you deal with. And so you kind of have this version of it where they can reconcile with you the challenges. It's not like, oh, well, Chris, you're rich and famous. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It's like they're like, oh, no, those things are still real. Yeah. And you still experience imposter syndrome and you still experience anxiety and they can vouch for that because they probably go through the same thing. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I feel very lucky to have them in the same space.

45:21Yeah. But I'd say the thing that has had the biggest effect on me is the team of people I get to work with, which is from my hair and makeup team, my costume guy that I travel with, my assistant, my trainer. that group I've known for about 14 years um my assistant my trainer I've known for 35 years I went to school with my two best mates and to have the five or six of us traveled together is in I thought was quite common why wouldn't you bring along your mates and have the same people with you and the amount of people I've met in in the highest of positions that live this isolated, lonely existence and don't have true friendships around and groups of people who remind them who they are really and remind them there's a grounding quality to that.

46:09I thought it was such a tragedy, you know, to give this abundance of opportunity and this sort of, you know, one in a million chance to sort of participate in this journey where you get to travel and you're dealing with all this experience and activation and interaction with the world on a level that, you know, most of us wouldn't get to experience, yet you're doing it alone. You have no one to share it with. And I think that's the, you know, the social connection. It's like it's only as good as the people standing either side of you that get to walk that journey with you because, you know, there's times when you become a little jaded about it.

46:50There's times when it becomes a little normal. There are times when it becomes boring and you have someone to shake you and go, hey, this is pretty cool. Remember where we came from, remember what we could be doing, remember what we used to do, is incredibly invigorating. And I find myself, the thing I'm most grateful for, I think, in my career is having those core people with me constantly. Yeah. How do you define a real friend? Someone you can laugh with and who you can laugh at each other. And it's not offensive or it can be and that's okay. someone you can really push it too far with and they're gonna go i'll let that one slide i'll get you next time a true friend who keeps you humble i think keeps you grounded the sort of the sort of obvious things to say but you know through thick and thin they're still standing there next year and whether it was all to be taken if it all got taken away they'd still be there having a laugh patting in the back saying well we gave it a shot and i've got a lot of those people in my life I'm very thankful for yeah I I love that it's it's definitely it's British banter is a big thing but I got to learn that Australian banter is as strong if not better as well because when I was touring in uh when I toured Australia uh two years back and we did three shows at the Sydney Opera House we did Melbourne and Brisbane and I I have lots of moments in my show where I bring people up on stage and we're going through all sorts of experiments and activities and every single person would banter back.

48:18Like there was no one who was letting me get away with a joke at their expense. And I was like, this is amazing. It was so much fun. Everyone was so fast. The quips were great. It's good. There's a good self-deprecating sort of quality. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that too. I feel like, you know, I have a WhatsApp group with all my best mates back in London and all we do is just roast each other all day long. So whether someone posts something on social media or send this video out, whatever it is. And I think that that's such a good test of friendship. Oh, for sure. And when me and my wife from London too, when we moved to America, me and my wife roast each other just as you would roast one of your boys.

48:54And everyone on my team would just think we were having a massive argument because they just weren't used to it. So they thought we hated each other. It's our love language. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we were like, no, this is our, you know, it's not passive aggressive. This is just how it works. I think that there was a study done recently and I don't know where I read it, but talking about that it is a sign of true friendship that you can roast each other and give each other shit. And it's a sign that there is a, I don't know, there's a trust there. Because you don't, I wouldn't speak this way to someone that I didn't know that well and didn't trust that it was going to go okay with it.

49:28It'd be, yeah, I'd be in trouble. Yeah. The worst was when I first moved to LA and I was learning about getting a stylist and all this kind of stuff. And my friends would just take terrible pictures of me off the red carpet and just keep putting them in the group. They're like, why are you wearing a skirt? What are you doing? I'm sure you've had a million of those. Oh, for sure. My friend will send me pictures of like, you know, certain sort of fashion sort of moments and looks. He's like, oh, it's number seven, you know, the hand on the air and the scratch above the head. And you kind of, I find myself doing those shoots and then stopping myself because three or four guys back home are going to see it and tell me better.

50:02Rather than, you know, the vast majority of people who might not think twice about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. And you need that. You need that for sure. Yeah, you need that. I think about it all the time. Every time my hairstylist tries a new hairstyle, Whatever it is, I'm like, yeah, all right. I know who's going to send me a picture of this tomorrow. I'm so grateful that I got to see the documentary because I went through a really, and I shared this because of how powerful it was for me to watch it. And so my greatest spiritual mentor, who I grew up around in London, he passed away during the pandemic.

50:38And I couldn't go back to his funeral. I was stuck in the United States and he was based in London. And I just remember finding out, it was almost like everything changed for him and changed for us in like a night. It felt that way at least when we became aware. Sorry to do that. Yeah, no, no. But it was watching your experience with your father was so beautiful because it was all the, I was like, people are going to watch this and they're going to know what to do. And that is such a beautiful thing to give people. It's such a gift to give to people because I didn't know because I'd never been through it.

51:13I'd never seen anyone publicly go through it. So when I watched it, and I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching right now to watch it too, because it gave me a real resolve to be like, yeah, this is going to help people. It's going to help a lot of people. And I wanted to ask you about that. Your father obviously got diagnosed with Alzheimer's. It's like, what was that like the day you found out? Like, how did you even notice it before the day you found out? Did you start to notice things? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I remember in the first season of Limitless and Peter Atiyah, I did a bunch of blood work and looking at my genetics.

51:50And the plan was on camera. He was going to tell me about what I had a predisposition to and what I had a vulnerability to, what my strengths were and so on. And he said, oh, I don't want to do this on camera. I've got to talk to you about something. And I thought, oh, God, what is this? And Darren Aronofsky called me and said, Peter wants to call you. And I got really nervous about what he was going to tell me. And he said, you've got two copies of the APOE4 gene, which you get a copy from each parent. A two is not too bad. A three is a little worse. The four is the worst one. And you've got two.

52:23And basically, I think 1 % of the population has two copies of these genes. And it puts you in a high risk category for Alzheimer's. It's not a predeterministic gene. it's it's just an indication that you do you have a greater vulnerability to Alzheimer's he told me that and I was like a moment of sort of shock a moment of what does it mean and then about 15 minutes later I was like yeah it's something old people get whatever I told my parents about it and I remember my dad saying oh look don't worry about we'll figure it out that's you know you know and I was like yeah I'm not concerned it's just a strange thing to be told and he was like it's fine mate you know plenty of time where you know figure out what you need to do to prevent it and so on.

53:02And I remember vividly that conversation of him sort of telling me not to be concerned about it. And then about two or three years later, my mom saying to me, I think we've got to get dad checked because there's these signs and things I'm concerned about. The obvious ones, memory and sort of slight mood changes and shifts and forgetfulness and so on. So he went and got tested and found out he had two copies of the ApoE4, as did my mum, which so if you've got 1 % of the population is ApoE4, I don't know what the math is on ApoE4. Them finding each other. Them finding each other. So then by default, me, Luke, and Liam all have two copies of ApoE4.

53:47So there's sort of anomaly of genetic sort of combinations. And, but my dad, I was immediately hit with the, the reality of what that meant for him, because I had just gone through way, ah, it's a long way down the track. Don't worry, push it aside. Then all of a sudden it was right in front of us. And, and it was incredibly confronting, but again, I think the, um, we'll figure it out mentality was, was, was still very prominent. and then as it began to get worse, it became a real sort of shaking into the moment and a real sort of shock to the system and oh wow, this sort of everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change and shift.

54:38Yeah, and then we, I remember when I was looking at doing another episode for that series, the discussion around would I do something around brain health with my dad. And my first instinct was I just spent a lot of the press tour of the previous show trying to tell people that I didn't have Alzheimer's and, you know, and I said, I don't want to go through that, but I also don't want to exploit or feel like I'm in any way putting him in an uncomfortable position or exploiting this kind of condition. And how's it going to make him feel? and I spoke to him about it and he was like, oh, absolutely, yeah, no, let's, you know, maybe this will help shed some light on the issue and people will benefit from it and we might learn something along the way and off we went in that direction.

55:23But there was a huge amount of grace and humility in his attitude to it. You know, he says it in the documentary, but his biggest concern was being a burden. Yeah. And that was heartbreaking to hear and consider. And I'd never even, up until we shot the documentary, I didn't know even how he felt about it, you know, because I hadn't asked him. And I felt this strange mix of sort of guilt while shooting as well as concern for his condition, but guilt that I hadn't asked this prior. Now I'm doing it on camera. And so it was this strange sort of orchestration of events. But what came out of it and what wasn't planned was this beautiful connection that my dad and I were able to have and this beautiful discussion that we probably wouldn't have had otherwise.

56:16And someone who had just seen it recently, he said, I'm about at the same, you know, I got diagnosed a few years ago. I'm in the same spaces your dad's in. And he said, I wish my kids could see this documentary. I hope they see it because there's so much stigma around it. they don't know what to say. They don't even talk to me about it. They don't ask me how I'm feeling about it. They don't ask me, am I afraid? Am I concerned? What am I concerned about? They just sort of talk to me about the footy or they talk to me about work. And that was a sort of a beautiful moment of realization. And I was there with my dad and I said, this is hopefully what this is going to do for people is it motivate people into reaching out and removing the sort of awkwardness around the uncomfortable conversations and actually reaching out to people and allowing each other to be vulnerable and allowing each other to talk about their fears and their concerns and help navigate it together as opposed to again having blinkers on and sort of burying our heads in the sand you know yeah

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1:00:44It's such a big thing and it's such a hard thing that it's hard to be like, oh, when we've had hard things happen in the family before we talk about it. This is different to that, even though everyone's an adult now, you know, your family and everyone's grown up. It's a difficult conversation to have. And it's, have you as a family always had open conversations and emotional conversations and difficult conversations? Or has there not really been a need to have one? No, we have, but there hasn't been a need as,

1:01:16I guess, as important as this one. You know, it wasn't as personal. Like we've obviously had, you know, people die and situations occur and things that we were all, you know, confronting and the, you know, human experience of tragedy and so on. But it wasn't as in front of us as this was. And the interesting, the complex thing about, I think, dementia and Alzheimer's is it's when the signs first start to show, they're very subtle. so you still sort of think oh we can manage this you know and um and then it gets over time a little worse and depending on the regression you know some people it happens in six months and they're in the sort of vegetable cataclysm state whereas um and there's some people it's a it's a slower regression.

1:02:09And, and, and so again, there's, there's an easy option to sort of ignore those subtle changes. And I, and, and I think this experience made it far more prominent for all of us than we had to pay attention to it. And even my mom had said, you know, my dad did the interviews. She's like, I've never even heard him talk like that. I didn't even know he felt that. I didn't know he was experiencing that. And because he didn't want to put that burden upon on someone else. And, and, um, and so, yeah, I, I, I, I guess I'm thankful for the opportunity to, to embark on this sort of journey with him. And as far as the documentary went, because it, it ignited something in, in, I think all of us in my family to, to be a lot more proactive and a lot more present and, and a lot more connected because, you know, we're watching so the memories disappear in front of us?

1:03:05The first time you're going through it, and same as my experience, like before the pandemic, before he did pass away, I would go back to see him. Yeah. And every time I'd go back, I'd notice, especially because I was living in LA. So every time I'd go back, I'd notice big changes than the people who were with him every day. And it was like, I'd go back maybe every four months to see him or whatever it was. And it's like the first time, he'd still remember my name, but he'd forget that I was there after like 10 minutes and then say hello again. And then the next time I'd go, he'd remember my name, but then he'd only, he'd forget me every 30 seconds or whatever it was.

1:03:41And then, you know, you just, I saw that decline because I wasn't with him every day. How long between when he was diagnosed? Oh my gosh, maybe like, I think I'd have to check the exact time, but maybe like three to four years. Wow, yeah. Yeah, like three to, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's my, the same time my dad was diagnosed, a friend of ours was diagnosed and my dad's actually in a remarkable position compared to a friend of ours who can barely speak and that glazed, vague look of sort of confusion 24-7. My dad is the short-term memory, you know, and the older memories are still very strong and evident.

1:04:22He can sit here and recognize people, but there's some repetition now occurring more than there was. but um you know i'm thankful that it's hasn't happened as fast as a lot of instances you know yeah yeah it was about probably four maybe even five years ago you know yeah that's yeah no i'm happy to hear that too and it was it's beautiful to watch you go back to your childhood home like rebuilt rebuilt redesign and when everyone watches it they'll know what i mean when i say that but just like yeah it's such a special thing to do like i i can't imagine what it felt like for him and for you to even go back there as like a fully grown adult because he was an adult when he was there last.

1:05:01No, and it was – the reminiscence therapy is what it was called about this basically stimulating old memories in the hippocampus and triggering memories that held a great amount of larger emotional responses, so whether it be exhilarating, exciting, nerve-wracking, those intense memories to stimulate those via looking at old photographs, talking to old friends from the past, discussing things that happened in the past. What we did was a very elaborate supercharged version of that. We had a film crew with us and a production and they basically took the house that we grew up in and stripped all the furniture out and somehow sourced furniture and posters and DVD players and whatever, you know, that we had as kids and set the house up the way it was when we lived there.

1:05:54And it was beyond sort of comprehension that when I first walked in, I was struggling to sort of articulate how I felt about it because my brain didn't know what to do with it. And it was remarkable sort of seeing my dad sort of come the life in moments and, and, and it trigger all of these other memories and, um, better. And then my mom going through the house and it triggering a different experience for her, you know, as a reminder of the passage of time and the memory she had then, but the memories we may not have, you know, in, in a few years time of the disappearing. Uh, but it was, um, yeah, a pretty wild experience.

1:06:35Yeah. Yeah. It's, it just fully takes you back. And it's, I imagine that while you're doing this, because you're doing the supercharged version, there's a sense of, I wonder how your thoughts on how making memories has changed. Because we say that as humans, like, oh, we should make, let's make memories. But I don't know if we really think about it as profoundly as you do when you're faced with not knowing how many more you can make and how many of the parts. So how is your thought process on like the idea of making memories been impacted? I think my time that I spend with him now is a lot simpler than I would have thought or would have attempted in the past.

1:07:20I thought it had to be a bigger experience, but to do something incredibly memorable. And I've realized now that the greatest moments are just sitting there, being with him and seeing him have someone listen to him and see him have someone see him and pay attention. And watching him through this, even this documentary, all of a sudden he had agency in something again, you know, and not just because of, certainly having Alzheimer's, the awareness around I'm losing control and I can't sort of lead the pack or be in charge of, you know, this space. I'm very much a passenger or maybe a patient. But also that thing that happens at a certain age, and I've watched my parents the last kind of 10 years, the transition of, wow, they've been the authority and now they're looking to us.

1:08:16And what that does to the ego and it takes a great amount of grace and humility to go, oh, I now have to seek support where I used to lead the way. And I don't have the answers to that. And now, you know, my kids may be the authority on a lot of these subjects, you know, even though we thought we were, you know, all throughout our egoic youthful times. But that sort of transition. And so for him, that was really, you know, I looked at that, making the documentary as a, I thought, I was very thankful for watching him. And a lot of the crew said this, wow, as the days went on, And he really sort of took charge and felt like he was in the driver's seat again.

1:09:00And I think that's really important for people to remember is to still give them some agency and still as much as there is a lack of control, but I don't know, allowing them to embody some authority and narrative on their life as opposed to like, now you just have to sit in this space and have your hand out. Yeah. You think you're helping, but actually you're hurting. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you – and I try and, you know, I ask my dad questions I know the answers to, but just to – I know he will feel like he has – hopefully he doesn't hear this because then he'll forget it anyway. But, you know, I'll ask him things just to sort of stimulate some, again, agency and authority in his thinking.

1:09:47Yeah. I mean, it must have been pretty amazing to see him ride a motorcycle. Yeah, I mean, he still rides my bike. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Like when I saw that, I was like, wow, that's, that must feel great for him to get, because he used to be a, you know, it, it just, to me that, that also must feel like some agency for him to still be so active in that way. Because. Yeah. And that's the thing I think I'm most scared for, for him. And I think probably he is, is there'll come a time when he won't be able to do those things. And at the moment, you know, I mean, he still races in historic races with old Harleys and different bikes and things.

1:10:17and, you know, we'll blitz the pack and young blokes will rock up on their bikes and he's going, and they'll go, whoa, who is this guy? And he ends up on the podium a lot of the times in this race. He's an incredible rider still. But I don't know at what point that will occur. But that, for me, brings me great concern, you know, as it does for him as well because it will be, I think, the most obvious representation of the lack of agency and that you're taking a real backseat to things, you know. Yeah. Well, no, hearing you talk about it is just genuinely so, as hard as it is for you and obviously for your family and even just hearing you say how hard it was to make a documentary about something so personal, I definitely think that even hearing you talk about it today, I'm like, this is helping people because I feel like there's so many, it's not talked about enough and there are so many families that go through it.

1:11:14And like you said, it's so easy to pretend like it's not happening or try and just tell that person what actually happened because that's what our logical brain does. And what did you learn about your dad through this experience only that you wish you'd learned sooner or understood earlier?

1:11:32My dad had certainly, has always been my hero. He's represented such nobility and integrity and compassion and strength and a great, deep, profound sense of justice and injustice and right and wrong. And has been very present and vocal about situations like that. He worked in child protection and taking care of the most vulnerable of us and being children. And they're big shoes to fill. But I think what I didn't realize watching this documentary was that he had all the same fears and concerns that I had or I have. And he isn't unshakable and unmovable and he's human. And watching him be vulnerable and express concern and fear about things made me love him on an even deeper level.

1:12:29It's like, oh, wow, the walls came down. And I don't think he was presenting those walls out of avoidance, but he wasn't as, not emotionally available, but he wouldn't let you see that side of him as much. And now there's this gentlest sort of open, vulnerable side that I wasn't aware of as much as before. And I think that I'm very thankful for that. It was quite beautiful sort of watching his interviews, which I wasn't present for, but the master interviews that I watched after. I thought, oh, my God, I had no idea that those were the things he was considering, but also the sense of humor he had with it and the humility and the sort of self-deprecating sort of nature that he had even in discussing the most difficult things.

1:13:25Yeah, it must be really special that you have all those tapes. Yeah, absolutely. I think you said this at the start of our chat, But he had a friend of mine say, because I was really concerned about doing this and even through it. And even after we'd finished, I was talking to the director. I was like, oh, it's just a good thing. If I, you know, again, I don't want to feel like this is exploiting any of this. And he said, you know, I lost my father really suddenly and never had a chance to have these conversations. And the fact that you've been able to have this experience and force these conversations out of one another.

1:14:03um what a gift and then so many people who were at the screening the premiere a few weeks ago said i wish i had done this or i am now i'm gonna do this i'm now gonna reach out to my parents or that loved one or friend that i hadn't said these things to because um it was just a reminder of the fleeting nature and of all of it you know yeah well that's that's what's amazing about it that it doesn't have to be all stuff it's like you know you know it's just about yeah having time and space to reconnect and see your parents for who they are and who they didn't show you because they were protecting you and who they didn't want to or they weren't ready to.

1:14:39And, and it's hard because we all have, everyone has different relationships with their parents and everything, but there's, there's something beautiful about being able to just sit there and see them and them being, them allowing you. Cause even like making the documentary was like, on one hand, I sort of, we're, you know, we're, we're out to sort of understand Alzheimer's or dementia and find the fix, find the silver bullet, look into reminiscence therapy, look into different medications, look into different modalities and approaches on how to handle it. And then by the end of it, it was exactly that.

1:15:11It was like, oh, well, this is about connection. This is universal to all of our experience. This isn't just about Alzheimer's. This is about supporting one another and being there for one another and being part of a family and a community and that interconnected nature of all of it, as opposed to one lane with dementia, Alzheimer's, cognitive health. It was about love and support and connection. And that for me was the biggest takeaway, I think, or equally as sort of beneficial to the connection with my dad was about what it meant universally to all of my relationships. What did you learn about yourself that you weren't aware of or that you hadn't come across before?

1:15:49I felt just that I was doing something right, I think. I know that sounds kind of strange, but I had so much doubt and criticism and concern about it. And then I was sitting at the premiere and my dad kept, like, holding my hand and just never done that, you know. And he was both emotional and laughing and I thought, oh, wow, this is like out of all the things I've done and things I've put on screen and the things I've made, this feels profoundly important and deeply personal but special and unique to probably anything I'll ever do again. And I don't know, a little bit of what we were saying before, but I don't walk around thinking I've sort of, I am the thing I guess I try and present of having figured it out and having this sort of, you know, being entirely in control of things.

1:16:50I have more doubt than, you know, or as much doubt as anyone or more doubt than anyone. I don't know. But I have a lot of inner criticism and so on. And this, I don't know, I felt a real lift in that. And I felt like there was plenty, there are plenty more opportunities or should be to do things that have a deeper message and, and, and can resonate, um, on a larger scale and they can mean something. It doesn't just have to be purely entertainment. It doesn't just have to be, it can have a deeper message, you know? And, um, I don't know, I cut myself some slack, I guess. I felt a sense of sort of pride that I hadn't felt before.

1:17:36Yeah. I love hearing that. I'm glad you finally, you know, giving yourself some And I'm not saying I'm kind of, you know, disapproving of everything I've done. But I don't know how it resonated on a different level to me. I think that's real. I think it's real. I think that's, they just feed different things, right? In the same ways that you can make something purely entertaining that makes people have the best time and laugh and whatever it is, making something that personal, there's nothing like it. Like, I'm sure it was almost more gratifying watching your dad watch himself. than it was ever seeing any of your movies because that's how we're designed.

1:18:14I feel like we're wired for generosity as humans and we're wired for that connection. So when you're seeing that person that you love, what's themselves, it's way better than seeing yourself on a screen. He was sitting next to me and I spent as much time looking to him as I did at the screen and at the end of the film. Something you said to me, my first ever film, I spent a small part in Star Trek and he flew in for the premiere in LA with her mum and at the end of the film he grabbed me kissed me on the top of the head and he goes you were the best in your row and every single film I've done he's like you were the best in your row you know you were the best in your class type thing and it's this like his way of saying you know and then he would go on and give it the greatest sort of summary of it all but then I lent over to him and I said you're the best in your row you know and he goes yeah not as bad as I thought it was gonna be this again there's a wicked sense of humor about it yeah um no he comes across i mean yeah obviously i've never met your dad but like he comes across like so lovable yeah so charming so endearing like just you know just a just a great dad like he definitely like you know he should know that human yeah yeah yeah exactly exactly a good a good like good people good good human and there's that beautiful picture that almost the whole documentary is kind of centered around of, you know, you and your dad.

1:19:37And I was wondering if you, if you would go back to that younger self in that picture, what would you say to that younger self?

1:19:48Um, I don't know. I'd be, I'd be cautious to say anything because it, it's all, it's worked out pretty well. You know, um, the slightly older version of that kid, I'd say it's going to be okay. in those sort of worrisome nights that I would kind of spin my wheels on one subject or another and be full of concern and anxiety and regret and guilt and all this kind of strange concoction of emotions. I don't know why, but I would like to appease and remove some of that if I could to my younger self by saying, don't worry, just trust in the process and go with the flow a little more. you know but then again as i said i'm i wouldn't change anything so i wouldn't want to steer myself off the path yeah it's like almost if you went back and did that then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today i want the same outcome but i want it to be less challenging isn't that all of us that's so funny that that's literally it it was like that's that would that is everyone's desire in life yeah it's almost like yeah never the case it's all even this even you making this documentary it was it was uncomfortable yeah and now you're sitting back reflecting going yeah i'm really proud of it it made me feel good my you know sitting with my dad like but it was an uncomfortable journey of do i make it do i not is it how's it gonna look and so it's such a the discomfort to joy yeah art it's so real for all humans and i didn't matter how many times you tell yourself the adversity is what builds the strength whether it's in the gym or whether it's or emotional experiences.

1:21:22It's like, you'll be better for this afterwards, always. Yet each time like, oh, why? Why me? Why again? Why is this happening? How can I avoid this? How can I, you know? And it's like, it's a, I don't know whether you ever arrive at a place where you're just completely on board with the suffering, the challenges of the adversity. And you're like, but then if you did, then it wouldn't be suffering. So then you're not learning anything. Yeah, then you're not working out. Then you're not actually going through it. I'm okay with this. It's because it's not hurting enough. Yeah, exactly. Give me an extra 10 reps.

1:21:55Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, there it is. It's like when you've been in the cold plunge for seven minutes and now it's not – you've just normalized it. It doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. You're just in there for the ego boost. So now it's not doing anything. You need to do eight. It's like – What do you think that younger self in that picture or even a bit older would say back to you? I think they'd be like, we're going where? You know, and have the – and I think that often about But if my younger self knew what was in store or what was coming, they would be, you know, we're going to play a superhero.

1:22:26We're going to play dress-ups and we travel the world and be on this crazy, crazy adventure with our friends. And I think they'd be grateful. I think they'd be excited. I think they'd make sure I was enjoying it, you know, and not being caught up in the next one or the over calculation of it all. Yeah. It's almost like living life from that perspective is the only worthy one because from that lens, you look at it and you go, oh, I'm grateful, I'm happy, I'm joyful. Yeah. And there's some power in just looking back at your life from that younger self. For sure. Yeah. And they'd look up and go, you're doing a good job.

1:23:14It wouldn't have the criticism. Yeah. It's like who are you trying to better the situation for that younger version of yourself or the dream you had then or this sort of the thing you, you know, the sort of the prior imagining of it all, you know. And I've thought about that before. Like the younger self would be wildly impressed by it, you know. So, so should you. Yeah. But, you know, you're like, what am I? Well, that's the funny part, right? That younger self that's still inside of us is the part of us that doesn't have the criticism and the judgment and the harsh words and just has like this childlike excitement and thrill and enthusiasm.

1:24:03Yeah. And it's still there inside all of us. It's just, you don't, you almost don't let it breathe because you kind of treat it as like not as smart or not as intelligent. you know we've I mean that's a and that is what I I I chase all the time in a in a performance setting is like how would the what would my mindset be as a child in this in this situation what would I how vivid would my imagination be how you know let it run wild and every now and then I get a hold of that or I find myself in that state and it's completely unencumbered with the thought and the criticism and you're like, fly, you're in the moment, you know?

1:24:44And I had Downey, Robert Downey say this to me once in the scene where I sort of improvise something and something happened and he comes up and he goes, how do you feel? I said, I felt cool. That was really cool. And he goes, it happens like a couple of times in my career. He goes, grab a hold of it, remember it. And I was like, yeah. But what it was, was that nonjudgmental childlike version of myself, you know? And I think to take that into all aspects of life, not just when I was in front of a camera, has been really important and has been a real lesson is to be more adventurous and inquisitive and curious and not so much outcome-based focused, just be sort of moment to moment and allowing that sort of the cheekiness of children and the sort of the slight rebellious sort of less concerned with the rules version of ourselves coming out.

1:25:34But like you said, you're like, well, but then it's inconsistent with how your adult version should behave and that's irresponsible and so on. It's like, it doesn't matter. I don't know. Anyone getting hurt? No. Yeah. We'll carry on. Yeah. I think there's a big difference between being childlike and childish. Yeah. And we don't often know the difference. Yeah. And so we pressure down or suppress our childlike self. Yeah. Because we're scared we might get childish. and it's the intelligent self sees the childish part and goes, oh, whatever. But it's the childlike self that we know exists and has that power.

1:26:10There's this, when I'm doing workshops, I have this thing called the 30 circles test. It's basically an A4 piece of paper with 30 circles on it. And I'll do this with executives across the world and big companies and all the rest of it. And I'll say, you've got 30 seconds to uniquely complete 30 circles. That's the only instruction they get. And they all have a pencil. So everyone starts scribbling. There's a timer. And then the time starts going down. and then I go five, four, three, two, one, time's up. Some of them keep scribbling, like, you know, trying to get some more time in and then they stop and I ask them what they've done.

1:26:40And the top five answers are always, someone wrote the numbers one to 30 in every circle. The second answer is people wrote A to Z and then A, B, C, D. And then people do squiggles, people do emojis and little smiley faces, sad faces, footballs, pizzas, all that kind of stuff. And that's pretty much it. And these are like the smartest executives, CMO CEOs whatever all the big you know fortune 500 companies and all the rest of it and then I've done the same thing with kids and with 10 year olds usually and I learned this from the person who built the 30 circles test and uh the kids just come up with these amazing things so this one boy he put a line around it put a little sign on top and then put lines on the circles and when I asked him what it was he said it was a bag of tennis balls and because he plays tennis and then there's this other girl who she did all this intricate line work like straight lines on each piece and different things and when i asked her what it was she said it was a bird's eye view of a chess board and and because she she loves playing chess and then my favorite one i always remember this one there's this little girl who did intricate circles and curves and all this kind of stuff and asked what it was she held the paper like this she goes this bubble wrap and it was just like this really like childlike you know and you never get an adult doing any of those because we just hear 30 seconds 30 seconds get the job done yeah and you get you get these kids who just have this little bit of freedom still where they haven't got trained to yeah shut that out but we haven't um you know deeply embedded our neural pathways around ideas and and uh expectations and you know the assumption around the right and the wrong it's you know the the mind this is is wide open at that point and yeah i think we all can do with a heavy dose of getting back to that that that that time of our life yeah you you've been married for 15 years now yeah right something like that is that right yeah yeah 15 years uh and and you've got three wonderful children and kids yeah you know it's like and how old's the oldest now uh my daughter's 13 and yeah yeah you're right yeah yeah so she's 13 yeah yeah what would you say your kids have taught you that you didn't anticipate they would?

1:28:59I'd like to say they taught me patience. They're attempting to teach you patience, you know, because I don't know that I'm figuring it out. I mean, you talk about the ways you kind of, you know, you can be in control and be an authority in spaces and have it all figured out. And then that door opens and it's just chaos. And it's like, I'm failing at every single component of this. the again the importance of of of time you know and and the things that i thought were going to bring great joy and the things that i was going to provide and give comfort security it's far simpler than that it's attention you know they want your presence they want your your space they want your focus and um and we over complicate it so often with the attempts at sort of more extravagant experiences and things, and yet they just want your time.

1:29:55And that for me has been terrifying at times, realizing how quick it's gone. And I think I'll get to that, and then a year goes by, and I've done a couple of films or whatever, and gone, oh, wow, which part of their brief childhood have I missed? And so they've taught me a greater awareness around the importance of this moment because their personalities change every second and every day and every week and every month. And you're mourning a version of that child every month because they're gone. You look at the three-year-old and you think, oh, wow, this is it. And can't wait till they're out of nappies and doing this.

1:30:40And then all of a sudden they're four and five and they're out of nappies and you've put the stroller away. And you're like, oh, God, I wish I had that version back. And then so you're constantly saying goodbye to little versions of these people. And so just pay attention. Just be here. Be present. And they don't care about the things, the sort of larger achievements and an award or a big film or this and that and the other. They do momentarily, oh, that's cool, whatever, gone. They just want you there. And that's comforting, I find, because the pressure you put on yourself about those, you know, more superficial sort of accomplishments and things are important on one hand, but not as important as just being there.

1:31:24Yeah. What's been the key to 15 years together? Having fun, I think, you know, both having a sort of adventurous spirit, making time for one another. I think the complicated times have been when it's been all work, all kids, and all of a sudden, the us in the relationship is sort of non-existent. You know, you're just kind of managing a household or the work family schedule and elsewhere will be off on work and then I'll be off on work and then it's chaos at kids and the kid time. And so sort of removing ourselves from all of that and just having time for the two of us and making space for each other rather than the rest of the world that can be so all-consuming.

1:32:15That must be so hard though, right, with your schedule? Yeah, it is. It is. I think it's as hard as sort of for anyone really. It's all relative. And, you know, yeah, it's challenging, but we also have opportunity to make it work. We have no excuse as far as like how much time we can make for each other due to the support we can get in due to our situation. So, yeah, just making each other laugh, you know, just kind of because there's so much over sort of focus on these kind of the importance and the intense sort of things and the big decisions. And then it's the same with the kids. It's like the stuff that really resonates and when you really get along and you really kind of feel like you're just here in this space is when there's humor involved, when there's adventure, when there's curiosity, when there's openness to kind of make a fool of yourself and self-deprecation and all that.

1:33:15I think that's what you can hold. There's always that spark and that attraction, but what it comes down to is friendship, companionship at the end and the moment you run out of things to talk about and you lack that curiosity and interest in one another is, you know, that's what it's concerning. Yeah. And that's, you know, you keep digging, you know. Sort of, again, coming to some arrival or insisting on a sort of final conclusion to it is there's a finish line then, you know. And so understanding you don't entirely ever know each other and you'll continue to try and figure it out. and as you're trying to have a greater understanding of yourself as well in that experience, I think it's important to keep at the front of your thinking.

1:34:04It allows you to forgive each other. It allows you to be more compassionate with each other. It allows you to have greater understandings for both your shortcomings and the things we might, you know, the lesser versions of ourselves that we might think of. um yeah i think it's that that you know has kept us in check yeah i love the part of you saying when you still don't know each other like you're still getting like that's that's i think such a beautiful thing of like you're you still believe there's more to know about this person yeah that you see every day yeah and live with and you still believe no there's more to know i don't know them fully.

1:34:46And that keeps it fresh and new and exciting because there's an acceptance. Whereas as soon as you think, oh, I know them and I know their habits and I can kind of predict everything they do. And there is a part of that. And that's a helpful thing. Like, oh, I know when they're tired and I know when they need space and I know when they're hungry or hangry or whatever it may be. And that's helpful. Of course it is. But then it's also the acceptance of, I actually don't know them because they're changing and they're growing. And I haven't seen the mother version or the mother of three or the mother, you know, there's, there's all these iterations that we almost think, well, no, people stay the same.

1:35:19Yeah. Yeah. And it is. And it's having a sort of, um, allowance for that and a bit of compassion around, you know, do we ever even know ourselves entirely? You know, how, how could we ever entirely know somebody else? And, and, and, but you have to keep reminding yourself to be curious and to sort of embody the humility to go, oh, I don't entirely understand or know that, but that's okay. I don't have to, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to entirely, you know, there's sort of a pattern recognition and you have your expectations and so on, but having a little more openness to

1:36:02and curiosity, enthusiasm to understand what is it that makes you tick today versus tomorrow versus yesterday, you know, as opposed to thinking, I know all of your tricks and you know all of mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes away the sort of presumption, I guess, that we have around each other, which is, you know, is often cause for complication, I think, you know. I know why you did that. I don't know why you're going to do this. And I don't know, it's just like, then comes the eye roll and the contempt and then you're down a dangerous passage, you know. If Elsa was here sitting right next to you right now, what would she tell me about you that would surprise me?

1:36:43You don't know. I don't know. I'm going to have to ask her. You don't have to ask her. I'm going to have to ask her. I've seen her have interviews. I'm like, why did you tell him that? That's not true. Is that what you think? That's the best. Does she react to it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good ways. In them ways, I'm like, that's not true. I don't know.

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1:39:49Have you had the conversation with your kids about their granddad's Alzheimer's? like have you yeah walk me through that part um how do you explain it what how does that conversation yeah it's been really interesting because i um they're the they're the biggest kind of lessons are the most sort of profound sort of shifts in our sort of our growth i think as individuals is is around confronting moments and i was it was very important for me to have them understand what was happening and articulate what this meant and also what it meant for me, you know, rather than, I guess, protect or, you know, avoid that situation for them or that discomfort.

1:40:34I was kind of, it was very important. And so when I would talk to them about it, initially they were like, okay, what does that mean? Yep. He's going to forget his memories. Okay. And then they'd go and see him. They go, oh, daddy's fine. Yes. And then they would come and go, oh, he, he, he asked me this three times. And I said, well, this is what it is. And now you might have to look after me one day. And this is what we do. This is family. This is the importance of this connection, the support we have for one another and having compassion for vulnerable, challenging times. And they've been great with it.

1:41:05They have big hearts, my kids. I'm so thankful for that. And there is an abundance of sort of compassion there. And they're like, OK, cool. What do you need from us? Yeah, OK, cool. and they'll rally and go around and, you know, they'll ask dad questions and things and talk about old memories and things I've talked about with them. Yeah. And then they'll also be little maniacs and not care about any of it on other occasions. But for the most part, they've been really good. And my son, one of my boys actually at the screening was really emotional and it really kind of – I was really surprised. and then he was like in the car on the way home, like got really upset.

1:41:47He said, I just love Craigie so much. And I said, well, he's still here, you know, make sure you tell him. And he said, I am, I want to go around there more and I want to have more barbecues and ride motorbikes with him. And it was this great kind of, I think, sort of awakening for him. You know, it was real, but until he saw the documentary, it wasn't as real. and his brother who isn't probably as articulate with his sort of emotions, it was still affecting him, you know, and both were like, and he was sort of agreeing, yep, yep, let's go and be with him more and let's make the most of this opportunity.

1:42:24Yeah, that must have been amazing seeing their reaction too as well. Yeah, it was, it was. And it was, I wasn't even focusing on it. You know, I was sort of right there with my dad and at the end of it, they were there and in the car and they went home talking and I thought, oh, wow, I was sort of focused on this moment, but now this is the next generation, you know, coming. And that sort of the transference from one to the other and the experience that my dad had had and passed to me and now I pass to my kids. Yeah, it's also the power of just media and storytelling in a way that if we could all personalize in a world where you're not a movie star and you're not making a documentary and it's almost like I went to two friends' 70th birthday parties this year.

1:43:14And I've not known them. I've known them both separately, two different people. And I've probably known them both for maybe the last 10 years, if that. So I've not known them for like 60 years of their life. I've got to know them in the last 10. And these birthday parties were filled with people they've known for nearly 70 years. and it was old friends and of course their kids and grandkids and families and you know they weren't huge parties but they were they were big in that there were lots of very close people there teachers and you know um business partners and just just everyone and and it was so beautiful like it was it was such a special thing to attend as someone who's not 70 years old and go wow like what an incredible life these two people have lived how amazing it is to see them celebrate it and how, and they're not movie stars and how amazing it is for their families to have made media about them.

1:44:10So whether it's like a little homemade video of their highlight reel for 70 years or whether it's messages from over the years. And I was just like the power, and it's like, I've only known them for the last 10 years, but I'm like weeping at these videos, not, and I haven't even been there for that long, like compared to everyone else in the room. But there's a power to that and how connected we feel when you see someone's story being told. And it makes you wonder how much more we can all do that for our families and the people we love. Yeah. Even if it's not on a big, you know, you're not going to a premiere or anything like that, but how much of a need there is for celebrating people at Milestones.

1:44:45Yeah, for sure. And kind of taking a moment to create storytelling around them so other people can appreciate them better too. Yeah, it is. I think the most important thing to see one another and to be seen and to recognize in others the beauty and what they have represented, what they have given you. We don't often, you know, I mean, at the milestones of the parties and the birthdays and so on, we might, you know, offer that up. But I don't think we do it enough, you know. And it's incredibly important because you, you know, without that recognition from someone else, we don't really know kind of our effect on the world.

1:45:29We don't really, you know, we can assume and think this or that, but for the most part, it's a sort of imagined experience, you know, and the actuality of it, the reality of it, when someone else taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, this is incredibly important what you've done, and this is incredibly memorable and had this amazing, profound effect to me, what you said this one time. We don't, yeah, I don't think we're as comfortable saying it, but we don't sort of do it as often as we should. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and yeah, it's a good, this was definitely a good reminder of that. Yeah. For sure to see it.

1:46:00And for everyone to recognize that you can do your own version of it. Yeah, for sure. That's kind of what I was, the whole time I was watching it, I was just like, yeah, I wish I did that with my mentor and I wish we got the opportunity. And in a good way, not in a painful way, in an excitement for everyone else who, and you know, doing it with my mom. I remember a few years ago, I interviewed my mom, not on the podcast, but just over dinner. And it was my sister's 30th birthday. We'd gone away together, it was me and my mom and my younger sister. and we just, I just interviewed my mom over dinner.

1:46:28It was one of my favorite things I've ever done because I learned so much about her that she'd never told me. She's 70 now or she was at that point. And it just, it was so special just to ask her some questions that she would never tell me the story about or she wouldn't, she never makes her life sound exciting or different or special. And then you get into it and you go, oh my God, your life is all of those things. And yeah, just, yeah. What a beautiful thing to give people the right vocabulary. I wonder with everything you've been saying, what's something that you want to get better as, as a man?

1:47:02I want to slow down a bit, you know. I feel like that I have been sort of chasing something for so long and achieving something and arriving at a point and then quickly replacing it with something else. and it's afforded me an incredible life and I've achieved some wonderful things. But I would love to take pause and take stock in kind of this moment more. And it's not to say I don't want to keep working and achieving things, but I want to be less kind of focused on the outcome of it. and just be there for the experience and be there for the joy and the thrill and the adventure and have a greater curiosity around it without being consumed with the what if it goes wrong portion of things.

1:48:03But it's a strange thing because as we've discussed a few times, well, can you have one without the other?

1:48:13but I you know I in I have this has made me slow down a lot you know with my dad recently and I'm looking at next year and I have films to do but I'm turned down a lot of things just so I can be here with him more and because I know I'm not going to get 10 years down the track and go I'm glad I did those extra three or four films I'm going to say I wish I spent more time with him and with my mum you know um and with my brothers and my wife my kids and family and friends and because it's, you know, you wake up and 10 years has gone by. It's like, it's been fun, but a lot of it feels like a sort of a blurred Polaroid photograph.

1:48:52You know, I'm like, gosh, I can't even remember that, you know. But I was sort of all consuming and so busy and such intensity and such high emotions and such big risk, big reward, big payoffs, big loss, you know, and that's fun and there's a sort of excitement to that. But I find sometimes there's just pure exhaustion as well. And I just would like to kind of reset a bit and recharge and have a greater amount of sort of stillness and not want so much from a situation just kind of just be here. Yeah. You know? Is that why coming back here was so important instead of being in LA as well? Yeah, definitely.

1:49:36Definitely. And it was right when I had kids, um, we were in LA and we had a big, beautiful house there and, but it just didn't feel like home and it was chaotic. And every time I'd leave the house, I was reminded of work and reminded of what I was doing or what I wasn't doing. And, and, um, and that was, you know, documented by paparazzi and then plastered across sort of various news outlets and so on. And, and it didn't, it wasn't fulfilling on a sort of a personal soul level, you know, it didn't feel nourishing at all. And we came back here just for, just for a holiday, but in a sort of, um, a subtle attempt from me to sort of, you know, convince my wife to move here.

1:50:15And, uh, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't a hard, uh, you know, it wasn't a hard sell at all. She was instantly like, ah, this will do. This is pretty special. Yeah. Is your dad's transition most hardest on your mom? Do you, do you see that? For sure. Yeah, that's the one that has become really complicated because it's sort of – what's scary is she has the same two copies they have probably for. I think it's a high probability of women getting it as opposed to men. So she's in an even higher risk category. And the stress and the concern that she carries is incredibly dangerous and detrimental to her health.

1:51:07And so my brothers and I, a big attempt to sort of offload that as much as we can. And also watching, you know, you don't want to be – in a sort of romantic, loving relationship, and then one have to be a carer, one have to be a patient. It's such a tragedy. And I think at times that's where the roles have been assigned and there's good days and bad days. But I think not being able to do the things that they used to do and not having the same connection and the same conversations that they used to have and that there's a beautiful connection and love there, but there isn't the same depth to some of the conversations and the interactions they have now.

1:51:56There isn't the same support and, you know, obviously no one's fault. It's just this sort of an inability or incapacity to be there and provide that now because the memory isn't as strong as it was and the short-term things are rapidly sort of declining. so um yeah we're sort of trying to implement a lot of things currently for her health and for his but also trying to allow there to be some autonomy in my mom's life as well and a bit of agency in her space so she doesn't have to feel like she is the carer yeah it's such a stranger isn't it it's like you're caring for the person who's actually unwell yeah and caring for the person who's caring for the person who's unwell.

1:52:45Yeah. He's often gets forgotten sometimes. Peter Atiyah said it to me when my dad was first diagnosed. He said, how's your mom? I said, oh, yeah, she's good. She's fine now. He goes, she's the one I'd be concerned about, you know, because your dad, you know, we can slow the regression of Alzheimer's sometimes. We're yet to sort of reverse it, you know, but once it starts, that's the path you're on. He said, your mom isn't there yet, isn't, you know, it doesn't have sort of cognitive decline, but he goes but this is the environment where it will it will promote or that is is the stress and the sleepless nights the increase in cortisol um and that anxiety and concern he said all of those are like that's the environment for her to now sort of be forced down that path so he said we've got to pay attention there and that was a beautiful reminder from him and he said it a number of times i came in contact with him a lot and says how's your mom doing how's your mom doing um yeah she's definitely a big focus.

1:53:44Yeah. Love that. Chris, it's been such a joy talking to you. Thank you. You too. Truly just, it's beautiful feeling let into someone's life and heart in this way because it just, you know, puts so much into perspective for all of us to hear you kind of be so vulnerable and so open. It can't be easy. And of course, seeing the documentary, you just see how much you're letting everyone in. And we end every episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Often we go off piste because I get enthusiastic and excited. But Chris Hemsworth, these are your final five.

1:54:18We ask these to everyone on the show or at least a few of these. So question number one, Chris, what's the best advice you've ever received? Best advice I've received? I remember being asked this when I was doing Home and Away, this soap opera many years ago. And my answer was, be kind. And I remember the journalist at the time mocking me and saying, oh, it's like something you'd read on a teddy bear or whatever. But that advice that was given to me by my mum is just be kind to people, be compassionate, has stayed true and been my North Star through everything I've ever done. And in its simplicity, there's some profound wisdom to it.

1:55:03Be kind to yourself, but can't do others. It's about, if we embody just that one thing, I think we'll do okay. Yeah, I love that. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? I don't know. You asked me what I was afraid of and what makes me nervous, this. I love that. What were all those tricks I was trying to? It was a good anxiety, Chris. Yeah, exactly. The worst advice I've had on many occasions, just one more drink, one more beer. It doesn't work out. It doesn't work out. It's always the worst idea. The one more, that was always the problem. It leads to overweight Thor.

1:55:45It leads to overweight Thor. It leads to confused Thor, skeptical Thor, catastrophic Thor. I love it. Question number three, what do you believe makes a good dad?

1:55:59um, someone who truly embodies the things they're trying to bestow upon you, you know, someone who truly represents those virtues that they're trying to teach you. rather than you talking about it, their behavior represents that. And that's been, has been my dad, you know, his actions spoke a lot louder than his words. And he didn't necessarily speak in sort of poetic one-liners that were, you know, memorable. It was his, the way he walked into a room and the way he treated people, the way he behaved and held himself and took care of people and was compassionate that, um, and he was true to his word and honest and still is and holds a beautiful amount of integrity and love.

1:56:50And, um, yeah, someone who models their behavior, honestly. Question number four, what do you believe makes a good son? Being in not just a state of receivership, but also giving back, you know, and I remember when my dad's father passed away. I was in LA and he called me and I said, oh, sorry about your dad. And I remember him getting choked up and on the other end of the call kind of thinking, oh, wow, he's crying. I hadn't really seen him cry, I don't think ever. And very, I was sort of listening and okay, how are you? All right. And then he started talking again and we changed the subject and we went, and then afterwards, maybe a year later, I thought, God, I wasn't there for him.

1:57:41And then as time went on, realizing how important it was for me also to show, give recognition and how important he was rather than just him taking care of me, realizing I had a part to play. And so what makes it a good son is also the recognition that you have a position and a place to hold in this relationship. And it isn't just to be taken care of, it's also to share that responsibility. and take care of one another. It's a convoluted answer, wasn't it? No, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I feel like we're living at a time where roles are so hard to understand and undefined and it's so beautiful to just have like a North Star.

1:58:20Yeah. Of like as simple as it is to have like, yeah, your dad's a good dad, someone who's true to his words and lives by example. That's a beautiful, simple thing that we can all try to aspire to live towards as opposed to, you know, complex ideas. I remember having a friend of mine's dad who was very well read and, you know, would quote various philosophy and psychologists and things. And it was like, oh, wow, that's a really interesting, that's a great thing. And I would take it on board. But he didn't embody any of it. You know, as the years went on, I was like, oh, it's all talk, you know, it's not action.

1:59:03and just to sort of reiterate what I was saying before.

1:59:09It's one thing to sort of be able to spout off wisdom and quotes and so on, but it's like, do you truly, when push comes to shove, is that what you're representing or not? Yeah. I'm trying to avoid the next question. We're on question, oh, we did question four. We're on question five. This is it. This is the one that I told you about right at the top of the show that you've been thinking about the whole time. Yeah. So Chris, It's the fifth question that we ask to every guest who's ever been on the show. And by the way, everyone knows these questions and no one ever professed for it. So don't worry.

1:59:37Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? To have a three-day work week or four-day maybe. To work less, you know? And I think we would have, I would think we would work harder and more efficiently when we do. and their entire life wouldn't be around productivity and work, work, work, work, work. It would be about hopefully more enjoyable experiences. I mean, and the weekends are beautiful and needed and wanted and waited for with such anticipation because we've worked, yes, but I think a day or two less would be universally beneficial.

2:00:22I have no idea how humans signed up to a five-day work week. Can you imagine when that got instated, how everyone just goes, yeah, I don't know how we did it. No. I don't know how we ever agreed to going, yeah, we're all going to work five days a week. And in some cases, six in some places across the world, like six, seven days people are working. And maybe there's church on Sunday. Mental fatigue and the physical fatigue. And now with phones and all the other ways, we're sort of, you know. Well, now it's 24 hours, right? There is no. There is no switching off now. It's brutal. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good law.

2:00:52I hope. Get rid of phones. Maybe one day when you're, when you're prime minister or, you know, some sort of, you can instate a four day work, three day work, start with Australia. Then you can figure out. I'll let you know how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know. Test it. Yeah. Chris, it's been such a joy, honor to talk to you. Thank you, man. Really wonderful getting to know you on such a deep level. Thank you for being so open, vulnerable, and so grateful that you're sharing you and your dad's journey and your family's journey with us. I appreciate your time, man. Thank you very much. I can't wait for having to watch it.

2:01:22Yeah. It was definitely worth coming 24 hours. Oh, thank you. It was amazing. Thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Awesome, man. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, I need you to listen to one of my favorite conversations ever. It's with the one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your social anxiety, especially in situations where you're not drinking and everyone else is. We talk about his sobriety journey and so much more. He gets really personal. I can't wait for you to hear it. It's going to blow your mind. The quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me.

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