Daniel Kaluuya: How to Respond When No One Believes in You & Why Other People's Perception of You is Not Your Reality

25:25And the more asleep people are to it. And you go call it out. What I used to say is that like, because one time I was not getting roles cause of acting and that cause of, and then I was like, oh yeah, I was making all these excuses. And then my agent at the time, who was Irish and he was like, yeah, well Daniel, it's cause you're black. I said, what do you mean? He said, it's cause you're black. He said, it doesn't happen to anyone else. You should be good. It doesn't matter, you should be black. And I was like, allowed to kind of like accept it. And then I would tell people it was racism and they kind of wouldn't believe me.

25:58Then when I said, oh, my Irish agent said it, they're like, oh, is it? So I realize when you're black, you feel, you don't have the disease, but you feel the symptoms, but you're not allowed to diagnose it. It has to be someone outside of yourself that says that's what's happening. And that means it's more valid. Do you know what I'm saying? Usually the people that it's come from, because you're seen as too biased because you have the symptoms. So that's what I realized about it. Like you're just going through it You're like oh bro That's kind of nuts I can't really even say it And that's why subconsciously Going like yeah if I say it You go oh He's got a chip on his shoulder That's why he's got a chip On your shoulder bro Man you know chips On my shoulder bro Like do you know what I mean It's nuts Like it's nuts What people say And it's like it's common And people are like And so I think that's where it is You're like just navigating All of those things Like so it took me a long It took me a long time To figure it out I'm still figuring it out Yeah I feel like that's something that you don't ever figure out because it's like, I love how you described that.

27:04Never heard it described like that. But the idea of how because you have the symptoms, you can't be the one to diagnose it, but you can't be the one to express it, which feels so difficult because it's almost like this is my reality, but you need someone else to validate your reality. And that is a, that is a really interesting prison to live in. All right, cool. So what do you love in life? What do I love? Away from like, what do you love? Football. Imagine if I come out and they go, all right Jay, why do people don't like football? Yeah, and I'd be like, yeah, I don't know. So when people go, why do people don't like black people?

27:39Why would I know? Yeah, you don't know, yeah. So then that's what I'm saying, it's like there's something, it's a bait, it's gaslighting. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, I don't, how am I supposed to, but then when I initiate it and say this has happened, I'm not believed. But then I'm supposed to report about it when it's happening to me from there to justify what they're doing. It's a whole, like, it doesn't really make sense what's happening. If I go, this is happening, no, that's not true. And then they'll have a whole lawyer or someone like a professor, that's a whole dossier. And then now if he says it, cause he wrote 80 pages of waffle, they believe him.

28:16But I told you, you're just saying that his word is worth more than mine. And that is racism. I'll say this, it's not worth, It's just not worth anything to you. And I had to really learn that my word is worth something to me. To me. And so then like I just move like that. So I just don't really like kind of engage with the narratives because it's just people just making up things that protect what they like about it. Because things are kept because they like something about it. Because they didn't, they'll get rid of it. It'll change the culture. You've seen how they change other things. You change the culture.

28:53There's something that protects, I feel. Yeah, I find when I'm talking to you, I find that you've kind of really worked on like making peace with how you feel about yourself and how you feel about your views and how you feel about your art like there seems to be this autonomy and independence in saying as you were saying earlier even when you were given a bad grade you were like no no but I know this is good and even what you were saying before where you were like it gave you space to fail in private because you were like no no I know that I'm working on myself so it feels like you've really worked on having this internal peace how hard is that as your career kind of does the opposite right so it's like you're getting more and more focused on giving yourself peace which is an amazing skill like i'm i'm loving to see it on display and i know everyone's going to appreciate seeing it and at the same time it's like you're you're doing bigger and bigger things so you're more and more exposed to other people's opinions how have you managed to or how are you managing to continue to kind of hold on to that core of that nine-year-old and that 15 year old i mean like i think i always just have it like it's just mine yeah so it's not something but i think it's like what happens is is how i i've done things that causes a ruckus or chaos in my sphere and so like you just gotta accept that you're a bit chaotic You know what I mean?

30:17It's like, there's something, that doesn't mean that's you, but there's something there that you have to look at. If it's nuts like that, you have to look, all right, cool, like, where is that? Michael, what's that? And then you get closer to being cool with it or then it will quiet down. But there's something that I'm not looking at. If it goes a bit mad or you care too much what people think, do you know what I'm saying? It's like, you have to accept that. Just go, all right, cool, why is that? What's happening there? I feel like, but yeah, no, it's been, the last few years it's been wild. But like it's been like, I've done it in a very quiet way.

30:51But it's been wild in the sense of what happens and stuff like that. But that's what happens, the narratives that I've been a part of are powerful. And like the decisions I've made to stand on things that I believe in or even basically, I know what I like and I like what I like. If people don't like it, I might ask. You're entitled, if I care, I would wanna know why you don't like it. but I like what I like and I stand on decisions I make and I think then that spreads I don't know maybe it's that's a bit different to what how people handle their careers in this day and age so I don't know but that's just me guessing I don't have a big landscape on what every decision people are making of course yeah what does it feel like to see some of those like nine-year-old 15-year-old dreams come true like what does that feel like in reality like what What does that actually look like?

31:43Calm, normal. I knew it. I know it. Like, the minute I get the idea, I'm like, all right, cool, there, boom. That's when I get excited. All right, we on. Now let's work to it. So when you're working to it, when you get there, it costs so much, you know, it costs so much. If you want something that like you really want, the price is so high that you're just a bit like, You're not seeing it as for the sheen that you saw in the perspective at 15 at nine. You're seeing it, all right, that cost me this, that cost me that. I had to wake up for you, I had to do this, that there, I had to grind here, I had to do this, I had to do this.

32:25You're seeing the cost it takes. You're feeling the cost it takes. So when you land and arrive, all right, cool, there was turbulence. Oh yeah, you got here. I did. You just did. Do you know what I'm saying? And then, but the excitement comes from like, like feeling like you can do it before you see all of it. That makes sense. Like the full kind of picture. Cause you're only seeing the good, that's why you go there. But then everything's balanced. That's all it is. It's not like it's bad. It's just like, it's everything. Yeah. I love that statement you just said, like you only see the good, that's why you go there.

32:59And then when you go there, you see all of it, but you realize that all of it was part of getting you there. It was never possible to get there without everything else. Like it was never. And part of it, you've only seen the good, cause that like entices you. It's like what people say about sex, like how sex is like a way for your genes to keep going. Like it's like a body has created this organism to keep going. So then you have this pleasure out of it. So it's like, it's kind of like, oh, you got, oh yeah. And then when you go in there, I'm not saying sex is bad, I'm like, it's great. But like, you go to full of it, you go to the fullness of it.

33:34I find that when you go on those journeys, yeah, there's something about the badness in it that you have to face in yourself. And it's whether you take the lesson. And if you don't take that lesson, you will meet again. You will meet again until it lets you go. And then when you meet and accept it, sometimes you realize what I've realized that like, oh, I don't even want that good now. Part of it was me figuring out something in me that I didn't really know that I wanted to figure out. Do you know what I'm saying? But that was probably the majority of it. Do you know what I'm saying? and the sex impulse tells you go there.

34:07Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, do that. When did you get, you said when you haven't, I'm going to do a little bad impersonation, but you're like, when you get the idea, it's like, boom. So where's the, where's the - Definitely from Wood Green. Yeah, definitely from Wood Green. Where's the, when did you get the idea for the kitchen? And like, because I know that project's taken a long time to come to life, right? Yeah, yeah. Like eight years or something, seven? Ten. Ten, yeah. All right. I got the idea in a barbershop in Holloway. I was sitting in the barbershop and then like these guys were talking about taking stuff like these heists a million pound heists and this is Daniel and they were talking they were talking about actually doing this yeah yeah they were just chatting and I'm like these guys are talking and then like this and they were saying something was on the TV and they were like yeah that's us that's us and then I was like right that's and then in that moment I was like I'd love to see that film of people like going into like Diamond Shores stores and like robbing stuff I was like I'd love to see that just in the barbershop shilling because like Like my barber just kept on putting appointments before me, even though I made an appointment.

35:05So I'd be sitting there the whole half of the day. And then like, so then I was like, oh, I'd love to see that. And then like, and then I never saw him again, ever. And I was like, what happened to him? And he's like, yeah, he went. And then like, I was like, oh. I couldn't shake it. I was like, it was thrilling, but there was a cost. And I must be like 22 in a barber shop. Like chilling. I was like, there's something about that. Then I did a bit more research and I realized that like, oh, they're getting paid like, they're stealing millions of pounds worth of diamonds, but they're getting paid 200 pounds.

35:43I was like, there's something in that. That says where we're at in this world and what's going on in London, where they don't even know the value of what they're robbing. They think it's worth 200 and they're willing to risk their life and their freedom for it. I wanna know what's going on there. And I just kept digging. So I just would go down there and then, then I'm like where I grew up, like how we grew up, like obviously do like the professional jobs, like you do like Harry and Paul and the cycle builds and then that, but then I would have like a whole other career where we just make YouTube videos and we just keep people and just make stuff.

36:18So then there was a time when like, cause I wrote on skins and stuff. And there was a time when they were like, oh everyone wanted to do meetings and talk about what my ideas were. And I was like, I thought, I'm tired of these coffees, man. And so then I was like, and I got the team together, a director and a producer and that that we was building with and then like then I was like oh yeah let's just make it so I asked my barber who's in the film actually oh sick I love that he's in the film and then I asked him is he a barber in the film? no no no he's just in the film constantly he's one of the he's one of the residents he's one of the main residents but this is why this is why so I went to the barber he closed on Wednesdays so I was like oh yeah bro like I beg you let's use your shop because I want basically it started as reservoir dogs in the barber shop all right so then i was like hey like come use your shot to shoot he's like yeah yeah cool cool cool cool then i like paying people he said i have a free i was like no man like please and then he was like obviously didn't have a budget i think we like 200 pound each and we just shot something i got new actors and it was why they're new crew and then like and he was like don't cut me out of this don't cut me out of this i was like no i forgot you say now when it blows keep me in i need to stay involved i said no i got I got you.

37:28So that's how it kind of started. And then it evolved. It kept on evolving from then. Wow. I love that. I love hearing how like ideas come about and I appreciate that you have that memory. Did you actually sit down with people who'd done those heists? Or did you meet some people who'd actually gone through with it? I met the guys, I met a couple of guys that did stuff like that. And it was just like, I think I went there and it was like pretty, it was pretty simple. I don't know, actually wise, but it's like, for me it was about the mentality, which I knew, I understood. But it was like kind of being around the people and understanding, just like hanging with them, hanging with them.

38:01And the people that are like in the news and next I said I chilled with them. And they was like, this is that and the other. But I think them kind of guys, like, we understand each other. Cause I kind of go into the industry like, all right, listen, I'm just doing what I want. Like, I'm just going to go in there. And I think that's the energy that they have. But yeah, no, they're interesting people. What did you learn about them? Do you feel they were just, they're just trying to survive or they're trying to, or they're sold a dream or what's kind of motivating them to do that? I don't know. I think they just do it.

38:36Because like, it's just what, it's part of their operation. It's what they do, it's what they know, it's their reality, it's that's what they know. That's how they've chosen five, whether they've been the older brother or been the only boy in the family or whatever the reason is that they've gone down that path, they did it and they have a level of intelligence. That means they've been able to organize an operation and like talk to people and communicate and this and that. And like, they're like, but that's, they're just doing that in this realm. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I found how they think more interesting than what they do.

39:08And that's what I wanted to explore in this. It's like exposing the thought and the principles behind how they live and what their values are and how it's connected to, and if people are really true to it. So basically like someone like Staples in the film, he doesn't do anything criminal to per se, yeah. But it's like, he has the mentality and the values. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, he's just, he thinks that the enemy isn't the other postcode or the other block. The enemy is the system. And he engages with them how we would see a kid like that engage with the other block and the postcode.

39:48He goes, it's you lot. And he just engages them like that. that's a powerful energy, it's a powerful mentality. It's a leader. So I kind of was just interested in that and how those people think and how that can be, how can motor and a kind of like a cultural identity. And I felt that kind of like London had that energy of like, bruv, we do what we want. Like if you're really from there, if you're really from there, and I feel you have that energy, but you're just a monk and that, you know what I mean? You're like Zen. But you're like, hey, it's me. But it's like, I think you're like, but you're doing it for good things.

40:21but it's like, I think London is, I always felt London was a special city. Yeah, I did too. A very special city, but sometimes our humility and the class ceiling, yeah, stops us from like doing what we want to do. Like people are like, there's a glass ceiling. And I'm like, it's made of glass. You could break it. It's not like, it's made of, get something. Yeah. I mean, and I feel like what I was around was basically what I grew up around was that mentality. We're gonna make it work. We're gonna make it happen. And not in an arrogant way, we just, cause we want it to happen. We just, we mean it, it's sincerity.

41:00We mean it, we just want it to happen. And like, I mean, it's more than us. And I feel like London, and then I've researched about London, about the blitz and how the mentality of like, when London was bombed for the first time, how like people were scared. And then after it, they were like, oh, we survived. and how it built a resilience in the city, like a kind of resilience that I feel like is still here. But because of the class system and that keep calm, carry on mentality, we kind of squash it and like a very like regional with our dreams. We think, oh yeah, if we got this, then that's enough.

41:40Because said person said, that's all you can get. Who is this person? That's how I feel. who are you to limit me that doesn't make sense to me yeah do you think people are scared to dream or is it scared to or they're accepting a limit or what what how would you articulate one of the big moments i had one of the big breakthroughs i feel in a script was like a randomly like so like i think black mirror was like 22 four years later like it blew in a miracle yeah yeah i mean it's not it went nuts in america netflix wasn't a thing so i did that i did this tv show and then And then I did a thing that crossed over in America.

42:17So I was in New York and then like, it was years after I did it. It was made with a Pacquiao fight, right then. So I had a photo shoot. So I stayed at the photo shoot and then I was like, oh, I've got to watch the fight here. So I stayed in this flat in Bed-Stuy and I was chilling. And then I was just, I was in New York, like I was in New York, going to the church, went to the brunch. I was going everywhere. I was rolling, went to the parties, went to everywhere. And then I was like, and I was, I don't know, I was walking around and there's a massive poster of Biggie in Brooklyn. And I looked at it, I was like, they really love themselves.

42:54This is someone that's come from there and they've pushed that. I don't think, we wouldn't see our heroes of now on that pedestal, on that platform. We wouldn't see them as who they are the majority of the time. It's like, huh? I came back home and I used to like go Cali pool. But I used to run from my place to go Cali pool. I used to get a lot of things from my jogs. So I'd run there, it's a 10 minute jog and I would look around, I'm like, the same demographic as New York, literally same demographic. What's the difference? Why does New York feel like New York, New York and then London feels? And I was just running around, I was like, these guys don't believe in themselves.

43:36I'm gonna believe in myself. And I think my career shifted, but also I think the, I just feel I want that for London. I want that we're global we're playing world class rent I want world class results from this city do you know what I'm saying so like but for whatever reason we're just like going nah nah nah it's like I just don't I don't believe in that I don't believe in that and I feel like New Yorkers just decide we're this and I think if Londoners decide we're this I think everything will flourish and I think a lot of it came from that if we're being honest about who we are as opposed to kind of hiding and kind of suppressing and kind of this keep calm, carry on sheen that we're pretending to be, where we're actually as a culture, very cocky or sure about who we are, what we stand for.

44:23Even the fact that like when you grow up in London, like you really still stay hanging out with your friends that you grew up with. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's your, because that's what it is. You know what I mean? And that's a level of conviction and values that I feel we're not honest about publicly. And I wanted more for London.

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45:46Take financial possession of your apartment by December 31st, 2025 and save. Discover more at brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal housing opportunity. Yeah, I love that, man. I relate to so much of that as someone who considers myself through and through London, born, raised, university, school, everything. All my best friends are here. you know and obviously i don't live here anymore but when i'm back it's like to me yeah london raised me and you have that kind of affinity to this city in such a special way but yeah i feel similar to you that i feel often people think if you if you dream bigger or you think beyond or you are pursuing the limitless it's almost seen as less than it's seen as like no no no don't don't try that like that's it's not worth it it's not worth it or when we feel we have to present ourselves to others we're like no no you shouldn't even have to do that you should it should just happen and it's like well no sometimes it takes a bit of work and convincing and pushing the boundaries as you're saying as well and so i can relate to relate to all of that and and i feel the same way i feel the same way london is fully global and london has so much incredible talent in all these different industries and i think it needs to be shared globally too we don't need to stay just here yeah no I don't I don't think so I think I think we've got a lot to say and we've got interesting perspective and I just wanna I want more of it like a lot of the time I do things I was like come on then and I may mess it up but at least at least I went for it at least I went for it and I and I believed in it and then hopefully someone after me refine it so then I can learn something and I'll go for it like do you mean it's like that's the whole point that's the whole point like just go for it It's not about you.

47:31It's about your ideas, what you can hear and what you can let through. That's what this is, man. And so what are you doing? What are you listening to? What are the radio stations you listening to? What ideas are you letting up? That's how I see it. Yeah. How do you get, I'm intrigued. I loved how you talked about how the idea for the kitchen formed. How do you get curious and critique your own ideas? Because I'm sure you have ideas popping at you all the time. Yeah. how do you kind of like filter it down to be like oh this is an idea that i really love versus i'm going to park that i'm going to take that from here now walk me through what's happening in your mind because i feel like when you do have an idea that you're sure of and you go yeah that's the one it seems so clear but i'm guessing you have a million ideas before you get that it's it's it's clear when you know it's clear yeah that's what i mean in that time it's like but in that before the true clarity you can't it's like you just can't shake it off you can't stop thinking about it you can't stop thinking about it you can't stop thinking about it you keep going you keep going keep going and then it goes oh i got i gotta do it and what i really truly there's loads of ideas but like but i read like like loads of ideas but then like someone ends up doing it like jermina's like and then you're like and i when someone ends up doing it i get really happy i'm like oh cool i don't have to do it they did it like i don't i don't I don't see it as mine, as seen as what I hear, and what I can see.

48:56Like I think Noel Gallagher said in an interview one time, like in Desert Island Disc and that, he said like, they asked him about like, I can't remember, Wonderwall, one of them songs he made. They were like, what's it like? He said, it's like fishing. And you go on there by the shore and you're just waiting, just waiting, just whoa. You feel me? Or that old Michael Jackson described it one time where, like he was saying how like he was writing, he was writing a song and they were like, oh Michael, like go bed, like you're tired. He's like, I can't. He said, Michael go bed. Like can't, like why?

49:25He was like, I can't because if I go bed, God will give the song to Prince. And they like, you get it. Like it's not like, it's not mine. It's what my expertise, my hours, my perspective, my, I may have an idea, but I'm not the right, haven't had the right upbringing to really actualize it. like it's all these factors that come to you letting it through. Do you know what I'm saying? So I could see things and go, yeah, that's a great idea, but I'm not sure if I'm able to give that. So a lot of time when I act in that, how I define it a lot of time is there's stuff I want to say and there's stuff I want to help people say.

50:06Acting is me helping someone say something because I'm like, oh, I really want to say that too, but I haven't got time to like get there. Do you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, cool, I'll just help you say it because I believe it. So like, well, this is like, okay, no stuff I've realized. Oh, I'm the one that is supposed to say this. I can say this. And then you have to check yourself and go, how much are you thinking about yourself? How big is your mentality? Or like, it could be limiting or like, you mean, it's like, there's a whole process. That's why it's taken me time. But I think when I did Skins, when I wrote on Skins, I had to think that in my career, I was like, all right, cool.

50:41Do I want to be a great singer or do I want to sing great songs? Yeah, and I think my career shifted where I was like, I want to sing great songs. And then I realized in that process, you become a great singer. So when skins, when you're inheriting characters, you're singing a great song, essentially. And then I realized in this process, I've had to learn how to make a song. You know what I'm saying? How that to create a character, how that to create relationship design, how that to create structure. Like you have to learn all that in order to get to the standard that I like. You know what I'm saying?

51:08You can release it. But I wouldn't because I just, I have a higher standard for myself and the stuff I like and I want me and my friends to like what I make or what I help someone make I love what you said man and it's so interesting like I'm when I'm listening to someone speak on the podcast I'm always just trying to like sense like what energy kind of connects everything they're saying and every time you speak and every time the way you answer stuff is is counterintuitive in a good way because I hear peace and calm through all of it like even for you to just say right now that when someone makes something that I had an idea about you accept that with peace that oh that's not my idea it wasn't meant to be mine where a lot of us see someone make an idea come that we maybe one day had randomly and we're like they did my idea like I wish you know I could have been the person or whatever we often feel a bit of competitiveness comparison and you have actually the opposite where it's a sense of peace and like actually that's great for them good for them I'm happy they made it because I want to see it yeah I want to see I wanna see it.

52:10Like I wanna see it. And it's the reality of like, oh yeah, to be too well, I'm the one to make the idea in that certain kind of level that cost a lot. Like, so if someone does it and they wanted to pay the price, I'm gonna sit front row and be a fan of it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like back then I'd buy the DVD. Do you know what I'm saying? I would like, I would support it because I'm just happy it exists. I'm just happy, I just want things to exist. I think the world that we kind of come into is really fake. and everyone just said, this is this, this is that. I'm like, it's just people decided that.

52:42I just decided something different. And I think other people just decide something different. And I love seeing people make decisions. I know you know this and I hope you know this. That is beautiful, man. That mindset is like top notch. That's another level of thinking. I wouldn't see it that way, but I hear you. I accept that. I'm learning how to say thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying it to you. I love that because I think if we could all live in that way where we could all be happy for what bringing things into existence, whether it's brought by us or brought by others, that's a beautiful state to live in.

53:15To make something that doesn't exist to exist is incredible. I think it's insane. Yeah. So I used to have this mentality back the day before you just forgot. I was like, I thought I was nuts or whatever. But like, but like be like, I mean, someone said, oh, you can't do this. I'm like a man and a woman have sex. Yeah. And they make a baby. that is so incredible. It's insane.

53:40It's still like, don't you think that's the most insane? That's really difficult to have, like it's really difficult. For us, it's a really difficult thing. It's a difficult process. It's all these other thousand guys that are trying to get in there too. You know what I'm saying? And y 'all coming in like, hey, I'm here. Like I just, I don't know. It makes me, I celebrate simple things. Like I remember at school, I used to look up in the sky. I can't lie, this interview is making me realize I was a special kid. But I look at the sky and go, bro, like, don't you think it's sick that planes can fly?

54:14Yeah, but that is sick. I'm like, it's so heavy. It's so heavy. There's so many people, there's so many bags. What's going on? Like I was just going to the playground, I'm like, what's going on here? This is wild. And I just was full, I just think that's one of the most amazing things ever. Like that's why I always wanted to fly on a Concorde and I never got around to it because it got done by the time I got there. But even that fast, there was a faster one. Wow. Like, do you know what I mean? It's just like - It's a wow because it's common. It doesn't mean it's still not wow. Yeah. And I think because there's a lot of it, people then disregard its specialness because there's a lot of it.

54:51I just don't do that. Yeah. Yeah, we've lost that experience of awe and fascination when you have things that surprise you because everything around you is making the most difficult things look easy. AI, VR, like, I mean, today, you know, you could go on and on, like, everything's becoming so accessible. Yeah, and the edit art of this kitchen, we call it is land. When you're staying in is. Yeah, yeah. This is what it is, like. And then, like, so when you're in is land, that is amazing because that, a big metal box that has 300 people with like 800 kilos of luggage going from San Francisco to London is incredible.

55:33That is amazing. And I just kinda, I always go, oh, where am I? I'm in Islan, am I there? Am I there? Because then you're in just perception land or whatever you think it is or whatever your past pain or whatever this crap. Not crap, it's valid. But like, you should stay in that. yeah is it's powerful with your mindset and the amount of calm and peace there is in your life internally internally you're you're you're you're thinking like a monk honestly yeah yeah because it's it's the mindset piece man it's it's the mindset i'm not guessing it's the mindset piece like you know when i asked you every question i've asked you the things that have come out of your mind uh your mouth uh peace and calm and it's come naturally it's not like you're trying to be zen like it's just coming out because that's where you're trying to live and so that's what it means like in the modern day where you know we're not trying to live a particular monk life in that sense externally but there's a sense of peace within there's a sense of calm within and i love seeing it in other people i always say uh one of the other people i saw in during an interview was kobe bryant like when i sat with him and i interviewed him he had so much gravitas and so much calm and zen around him and he wasn't spewing like verses or trying to sound you know spiritual he wasn't he wasn't doing that same way as you're not doing that but it was a natural part of that about their presence yeah i appreciate it so i i i respect it i love seeing it in other people thank you so much i appreciate it yeah i mean that um i want to dive into uh and i love i love this idea about what is and what isn't and what could have been what should have been what what would have been and a lot of us live in that what if if someone's listening right now and they're listening to you and i'm i know this for a fact anyone who's listened to you this far today if you're still listening to the episode which i know you are i know that people are going to be moved i know people can be inspired i know there's a lot of people going to be going oh my god i didn't know he'd been through all of that and you know like skins and like just writing and the challenges and the stress what would you like people to know about you that maybe you think they don't know or or understand about you that maybe you've never really been able to talk about or share or or express i don't know because i'm not i don't i struggle with like my perception like i don't really because because a lot of the fame it's not like i chose to be this famous it kind of came as a product of the work and it was a surprise product like i did a film and then a year later i was at like the Oscars, I mean, so it was like, it was like, whoa, I'm not really, I think I get the vibe where I'm like, people don't get me in America anyway.

58:12And then in England, I think people do get me, but they still, cause they get me, they don't understand how I've done it. I don't, I'm not really, I'll keep it real. I've learned how to not be as invested in how people perceive me, but I just not invested in it. Cause then you're consistently, Yeah, curate it. Like I've been there. It's like, I'm not sitting there like, man's holier than thou. Like I've been there, I've been in it, trying to look a certain way. You know what I mean? I was just like, what, was I happy or not? So like, I don't know, but if, from you, if you wanna go ask questions and that, I'll be open to you and I'll be able to elaborate.

58:54I would love to, do you know what I'm saying? But for me, I don't go like, cause if I've really engaged in people mentality, I could not get to where I've got to. it could not get to where I've got to. So a lot of that is in that. Of that kind of being so like, that's what I think. Do you know what I'm saying? But I'm open at the same time as well. Do you know what I'm saying? No, no, no. I get what you're saying. And I don't, you know, I think that it's tricky because you're right that you can either get so lost in cultivating and crafting and curating how you're perceived and then still people won't perceive you that way even if you do all of that, or you can kind of let it go and it kind of flows in its own direction.

59:36And then you've made peace with that, which I think is probably the healthier option because at least you can live and breathe. I'll give you an example, right? So I was, I remember like, I didn't really, like I came in this game, like I didn't watch films. I watched like Batman and Robin. I'm not really, I'm just living life. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm a kid. You're talking about Val Kilmer. Yeah, yeah. We're talking George Clooney. Do you know what I'm saying? We're talking like that. Like just, I'm watching life, like films that come out. You know what I mean? So when I got into the industry, I was like talking about this art house from this art house from this, this, this, that and the other one.

1:00:05I remember HMV had this deal where you can buy one pound, two pound films. So I just buy loads of films and I would just watch all the people that people spoke about that. Like the legends like Meryl Streep, David Day Lewis, Shane Meadows, Paddy Considine, like all these people that people were like around that time around 07, that people were just obsessed about. But I watched time watching and then I would go, oh, like, all right, cool. I watch your acting performance. All right, okay, that's, you're clearly really good at what you do, but so what? Like what for? You know what I mean? And I realized I cared more about that than how great you were at something that was aimless or purposeless.

1:00:49Then I realized great didn't mean anything. Being really great at your job, being really good didn't mean, it didn't mean it, it had no emotion to it. So that sometimes is really great. Then obviously I'd watched all those films and I went for that. And then what happens when you go for that, it's a bit of a prison. Then you watch your work back and you're just critiquing yourself. You're not enjoying it. You're just critiquing, critiquing, in your head, in your head, in your head, in your head. Then I had to go, yo, I can't keep doing this. I can't, every time I do a job, just kind of. Cause I'm always, I always used to be that improv, like think about the whole week.

1:01:25I'll do an improv and the whole week, I should have done this, I should have done that. I'm actually gonna do this, this, this. All right, next week I'm gonna go do this. I messed up. And then, and I was like, this isn't, this isn't enjoyable. And then I got to a place where I was like, oh, don't try and be good, try and be honest. Like, what I say, truth is what happened. Honesty is how you feel about what happened. So that's how I felt like, I was just like, yo, like this is how, this is how I feel like. And then I go for something that's honest, I'll do something at work. and then a year later you watch it back and you're in a completely different space than you was a year ago and you wouldn't have done it that way.

1:02:02But I just go, that's how I felt. That's the honesty at that point. That's how I felt. That's where I was at. If I can't, it's not now. Time is as important as you. Like, it's not like the time is there. The time, like the time where you was at got you there. Yeah, a lot of jobs is like, I'm the best person for the job after the job. Do you know what I'm saying? And then it's like, and you have to make peace. Because you grew. Because you learned how to do it. And now you go, if you give me now, and it's like a annoying thing to be in. So it's like, you have to go, that's how I felt. I was honest.

1:02:39If I was honest, I can always walk away and go put my head up like, that's how I felt. And so that's what I go for in terms of everything. I go, yo, it's where I'm at, man. It's how I feel, man. And then if I say something different for years later, like, you know, I grew in it. It's like, I went through something and then my mentality and my something shift, I changed my mind. So it's not like, that's how really what I engage with now is just going, you know, like any other like micromanagement of my perception, I'm too meticulous for me to really go in that lane because then I will really micromanage it.

1:03:19So then I was like, well, just be real. And then people that get it will get it, people that don't, that's what they're supposed to do I mean yeah I mean I'm glad I asked that question because I love where you took it and I think what I'm intrigued by by what you said is what is what are the projects that you're now and I don't mean specifics like I don't need you to name stuff that you're working on but what is it that you want your work to mean today as you are writing as you're producing as you're now in charge of the story obviously you've been selective over roles you've played but I mean now that you're telling your own stories writing your own stories producing them which you've been doing since day one but now doing it at this level what do you want it to mean what do you want people to feel what are the things you'd like people i want to feel yeah i don't think i can manage it yeah because that will rob them from their experience right or what i want people to feel about the stuff i make right and producing direct to anything i do in my life is to go, someone to take it in, call their friend and go, hey, you seen this?

1:04:25This is mad. Like, and then, and they get points from their friend because they have shared something that, you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know what, there's a song that's amazing and they're like, this is mad. And then now forever - You're gonna rate that for - Like you're going, oh, I introduced you to that. Do you know what I'm saying? You feel like, yeah, like I got that, like I want my work to feel like that. I want it to feel, to share it. There's an excitement, there's like, there's a crackle to it. Like I want there to be like, I want it to be shareable.

1:05:00Cause I do think sometimes in a lot of work is there's stuff you share and there's stuff you don't. It'd be as good as great as you want. The stuff that you wanna share, the stuff you don't wanna share. It's a lot of depressing stuff I do not wanna share, but they are excellent. It's incredible. You just like, boom. You know what I mean? And you take it, what you take it into for whatever reason. And I do love the fact that people go, yo, this is, this makes me feel something. This makes me, this makes me wanna move. You know what it is? You know what it is? I wanna make music that makes people wanna dance.

1:05:26And how I, what I mean by that, it's like, kind of like, you can't intellectualize why someone dances. You know what I'm saying? It's just, they do, they move. You know what I mean? And I wanna just move people, move people to go, I'm gonna do that, or I wanna do this, or like, I wanna share this. I wanna, I wanna, there's something that comes after it. That means you, that's bigger than any adjective. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because a lot of times, a lot of people's feelings are just adjectives. The stuff that you say on Twitter, they're not stuff that's, we are actually feeling. So that's, that's where, that's where I'm at really.

1:06:00Great answer, man. Great answer. the reason why I love that is when I started, when I first made my first ever video and people said, why did you make it? I said, cause I wanted someone to send it to their friend and say, that's what we were talking about yeah that's what we were talking about and i didn't know how to we didn't know but that that video helped explain yes what i was going through but daniel you've been amazing i've got a final five we do this with every guest these final five have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum yeah so daniel these are your final five the first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard received or given i've got one professionally but i've got one personally i used to reject it as a kid this advice but now i'm older i get the I'm realizing how much my mum is always saying everything matters.

1:06:43Everything little matters. And I would let out, I wouldn't focus on details. I wouldn't focus on details. And then now I'm older, I'm realizing the detail isn't about the detail. This is about what it says about you and how easily you can show up on everything else if you just practice simple details. And she goes, everything little matters. She says, everything little matters. I think that. I love that. That's great, man. and we never had that and I fully agree. All right, question number two. What is the worst advice you've ever heard, received or given? I can't remember specific but I can remember how it made me feel and how I reacted to it in my head when they said it.

1:07:20When they basically were just saying accept less. Basically what the principle was. And I think I just erase it when people say that. They go, you know, you're not supposed to like, you know this or that person deserves. Basically they're basing that person deserves more. I think everyone deserves more. I love that Do you know what I mean? It's not like I just believe So if you decide That you want more Than you can get If you don't Then chill Do you know what I mean? It's not like And I feel like When people are Communicating Subconsciously communicating A hierarchy That they Win out of That doesn't benefit me Ask God You're chatting Rubbish But like I can't It's that I think it's acceptless Love that Alright Question number three What's the first thing You do when you wake up And the last thing you do when you go to bed pray pray what's the prayer just thanks thanks i really i got into that i used to as my mom as a kid she made me read the bible every night used to read a probe of a day you know they got like 31 chapters and that i used to read it as a kid and then i don't know i got into a place i was just like nah man there was one time i had to audition i really I really wanted this audition.

1:08:33I weren't really on that. And when we were in this audition, I just prayed. I'm like, who am I chatting to? What is going on here? I was in New York. I remember I really wanted it. I'm like, why did I feel to do that? And I just ignored it. It just kind of carried on my life. It's like 2016, 2015. I was like, yeah. And then like, I think I got it to a place and I was like, you know what? It makes me just stay. Yeah, man. Thanks. focus on what I thank and like what I'm grateful for and then like humility because my ego can get wild sometimes so it teaches me how to just chill and listen to myself yeah I think God's in you I don't think it's God's above you it's not big brother 1984 I love that I'm going to take that as question four because I followed up fifth and final question if you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow what would it be?

1:09:29if you have been proven in one way shape or form to hate someone or a group of people your punishment is to live with them for a year

1:09:43anyone even like twitter hate anything go on then you do your that's like nine to five or whatever boom boom boom you go live with them for a year and just be in there i think that's just off top by already. That's a great answer, man. Yeah. I like that a lot. Yeah. That's what that is. I like that you went there. That's a great answer. It's dope. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. I know. Appreciate you, man. My guy. Thank you, man. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion. My fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of.

1:10:26The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel. and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide.

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