Dr. Gabor Maté: Constantly Worrying What People Think of You? (THIS Simple Shift Will Help You Trust Yourself and Stop Seeking Approval)

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2:01At some point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, who am I really?

2:14that fit other people's expectations or does it line up with who I really am? I truly am so excited to be here tonight at the Orpheum Theatre in Vancouver with a dear friend, someone that I consider to be the utmost expert GOAT, the greatest of all time in his face. Like there is no one like Dr. Gabor Mate. Could you say more about that? We've been talking tonight about worrying about how we're perceived by others. Yeah. And how that blocks us from things in our life. Yeah. Where does that come from? Why is it that we're so obsessed and addicted to what people think about us? Well, it's a great topic.

3:05And I think in this culture, it's a fundamental one. There's a wonderful Catholic monk and mystic called Thomas Merton who talked about how we live in other people's minds. So when we're concerned about what other people think of us, how they see us, perceive us, judge us, love us, hate us, we're not living in ourselves. We're living in other people's minds. So where does that come from? One of the needs of the human child, it's an essential need. Just as we have the need to be held physically, to be fed, to be nurtured, we also have the need to be seen. Because we get to see ourselves the way others see us.

3:48When the parents can't see the child in the child's essence, in the child's... Well, the great psychiatrist and co-writer with Oprah, Bruce Perry, has written a book called Born for Love. And we're essentially born for love. It's a developmental need. Love isn't just how people feel about us, it's do they see us. If they can't see us for who we are because of their own limitations, and a lot of parents have trouble doing that, I certainly did, then the child wants to be seen in a positive way by the parent. Then they'll change themselves, hide parts of themselves, exaggerate other parts of themselves, basically create an image that they want the other person to see because they can't see the real person.

4:41So really it comes from our earliest relationships where we were not seen for who we are. Had we been seen for who we are we would just accept ourselves and not be so concerned with other people see us. So it goes back to our earliest days in homes where the parents actually loved the child. We're not blaming the parent here. We're saying that the parents own limitations prevent them from seeing the child for exactly who they are then the child will mold themselves into whoever the parents wants them to be. How do you see someone for who they are and not who you want them to be, who you think they could be or just the best parts of them?

5:24Because what I'm hearing is that's what we end up doing, right? Yeah, well that's the key question and And somewhere I heard you say that people love you, but they may not love you the way you want them to love you. And we actually have trouble loving people the way they need to be loved. We think that love is the feeling that we have for them. And that's certainly true. But it's much more than that. You can have all kinds of loving feeling towards somebody, but be limited by your own traumas from seeing them for who they are. And also a lot of parents in this culture want their kid to fit in with the culture.

6:12Now, that means you have a preconceived idea of who the child should be. And then when you don't see the child as the way you want him to be, you're dissatisfied with them. another child will be even more impetus to fit themselves into the parents' expectations so it comes from this culture's incapacity to see people who they actually are yeah I mean as I'm listening to you I'm thinking about just the amount of moments there are in our lives where the person's trauma creates new challenges for us, that doesn't get healed, that then gets passed on. How do people in this room, how do we all make sure that we are people where that cycle stops, that we can break that cycle, that we can interrupt that pattern, that we can be the people in our families, in the lives of people who have children, even if you don't choose to, how do you become the person that changes that trajectory for your family?

7:20At some point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, who am I really? And everything that I manifest and speak and do, is it designed to fit other people's expectations? Or does it line up with who I really am? And people get to that point, and that's what they call the midlife crisis, actually. And all of a sudden you start wondering, whose life am I leading anyway? I certainly went through that, still going through it. 81 years old and still going through a midlife crisis, you know. See, you're not too old, Etienne. 26 is all right. You're doing just fine. You're doing just fine, Etienne.

8:04So, but what I'm saying, Jay, is there has to be a questioning there. At some point you have to recognize that it's not working the way that feels good in the heart or in the gut. So there has to be that recognition. Then there has to be a curiosity. Now, you're asking about future generations, but the way we gift future generations is by actually working on ourselves. Not by trying to be better parents, but by actually dealing with our own stuff. That's the way we avoid as best we can, passing it on to the next generation.

8:49I think one of the ways the inner critic and that inner voice keeps us imprisoned is that it makes us believe we're only valuable when we're busy. We're only valuable if this. No, no, no, no. Wait a minute. Did the guy who just starts a 13-city tour in two weeks just ask me that question? You can't expose me on my own show, Gabbo. Look, I just, believe me, my wife's in the audience and she once said to me, Buddy, you've written a book called When the Body Says No, you better write one called When the Wife Says No.

9:34Precisely for the same reason. That's so good. That's so good. You didn't answer my question. Sorry? Sorry, I missed what you said. No, I was saying, yeah, I mean, me included, we definitely have that belief that I am valuable if, and fill in the blank, it could be I'm only valuable if I'm busy, I'm only valuable if this person says I am, I'm only valuable if I get promoted, I'm only valuable. I know, and we do have this idea that we're only as valuable as how we appear or what we do, but not for who we are. And it again goes back to very early days. And I've often talked about something my friend, the great trauma psychologist, pioneer Peter Levine said to me a couple of years ago.

10:21And Peter is, I think, a year or two older than I am. He's done an amazing work in the world, one of my mentors. and Peter said, if I ask myself, have I done enough? The answer is very much yes. But if I ask myself the question, am I enough? I still don't know the answer. And in this society, we're very much programmed to identify our value with what we do. And it's very interesting when I talk to people about it, because people tell me, I'm only as valuable as what I do. And then I ask them this question. Do you value me? Talk about myself as a human being. And they say, yeah, of course. I say, okay, what if, God forbid, tomorrow I'd have a stroke and I couldn't speak and I couldn't move and I couldn't give anything to anybody?

11:15Would you say to me then, Gabo, you're worthless? And they say, of course not. I say, then why are you saying it to yourself? Why are you saying to yourself that you're only as valuable as what you do so that there's this inner concept that I'm only as valuable as what I do or how I show up. There's a tremendous lack of self-compassion. Wow, that's yeah, yeah please give it up.

11:45I've never thought about it like that and the distinction you just made between those two questions yeah have I done enough am I enough yeah how do we learn to give a positive genuinely true answer to the second one how do we rewire when the whole world is telling us like what you do is who you are your title your followers your Instagram bio you're right the whole world is telling us that how do you kind of even begin to remaneuver how the mind is being programmed Yeah, well, I can't say that I fully worked it out, but two things come to mind when I hear your question. One is, would you say to a one-day-old baby who can't do a thing, would you ever say to them or believe about them, you are not enough?

12:39And of course you wouldn't. Then why are you saying it to yourself? Okay? So that's the first answer. And then the second answer is, who's even asking?

13:05Gabor, on the flip side of feeling like we only have value because we work hard, a lot of us are guilty or feel guilty for resting. if you look at the studies in the United States high percentages of people don't use their annual leave and the annual vacation in the US is far less I'm hoping in Canada people use their annual leave yeah there you go and in the UK we definitely use our annual leave but there's that sense that we all still feel a slight guilt for resting we feel a guilt for taking a break I can totally relate. When I was a busy and workaholic family doctor, literally, and I used to deliver babies and look after pregnant women, I'd feel terrible going on holiday with my family because somebody might give birth without me.

13:59you know it's like imagine somebody in the world is born without me how's that you know how's that how did humanity survive all those millions of years you know but there's that voice in me that says I'm committed to that patient I have to be there and in the sense of guilt that I'm actually looking after myself um that comes from that same belief that we're not enough unless we're doing something that that that lack of um valuation of ourselves just for being yeah that i mean that resonates so strongly and so many of us are constantly challenged by it walk us through what's actually happening to the brain when we stress ourselves physically or get close to burnout what's actually happening to us that we don't see the invisible effects we know that we get tired we get exhausted but what's actually happening inside that we often miss well so stress by the way we canadians can be proud of the word stress because actually was coined right here in canada in the way that we use it today um i didn't know that yeah i know a lot A lot of people don't.

15:14It was coined by another fellow Hungarian of mine called Janos Chorhant Selye, S-C-L-Y-E, who was a physician and researcher who came to Canada in the early 20th century just after the First World War. He did his research on stress at the University de Montréal in Montreal. He's the one that showed in the laboratory the impact of stress on diminishing the immune system overgrowing the adrenal gland which is the stress gland and ulcerating the intestines. And he's the one that the stress the word stress wasn't new but the way he used it was new. He's the one who established it internationally. And the thing about stress is it's an essential response to life challenges.

16:03If you're confronting a threat you're better at a stress response which means you'll have activation of your nervous system in a good way and it makes you more alert. You'll have more adrenaline to give you more energy and strength to fight back, more cortisol that gives you more blood sugar to have energy for the challenge you had. In the long term, that's a positive and necessary physiological response of all animals. In the long term, those same stress hormones, and this is something that my profession, in the medical profession, I only wish you would understand and practice more, is that in the long term, those same stress hormones give you high blood pressure, constrict your blood vessels, high risk of strokes and heart disease, thin your bones so you've got osteoporosis, suppress the immune system, or can even turn it against you so you've got autoimmune disease, make you depressed, put fat on your belly so that you're more at risk of heart disease, turn on genes that can cause cancer, turns off genes that can protect you against cancer, and cause inflammation in the body.

17:12So this is what we all bring on ourselves, and people don't realize how because they've taken on these driven values of this culture, they're actually literally making themselves sick. And sometimes it takes an illness to wake people up, and I don't recommend that way of waking up, But my God, it works that way very often. One of the Greek playwrights, Aeschylus, wrote in a play called Agamemnon, written 2 ,400 years ago. And he said that the way that the gods created us, human beings, that we have to suffer into truth. We have to have pain to wake us up to reality. And unfortunately, too often, it's these stresses that we impose on ourselves that then create pain, illness, dysfunction, that then wake us up.

18:03That maybe the way I'm living isn't the way I'm meant to live. But I hate, I hate, I don't hate it. I regret that that's why people have to wake up, but it often is. Certainly, I have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the truth. I don't gravitate there automatically.

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19:09If someone's sitting there right now and wondering, Gabo, I noticed stress early. I can see it's getting worse. What do I do? Where do I start? what should I be thinking about doing, changing, shifting? If I want to walk out of here tonight and I want to really prioritize this because I don't want to end up with that long laundry list of pains in my life, what should I do? What would you say? Well, read my books.

19:42Well, actually, I did mention a book I wrote called When the Body Says No, which is the whole point is that when you don't say no the body will say it for you in a form of illness in my most recent book that we've just discussed before the myth of normal there's actually a whole chapter on this and when i say this this simple question to the inquiry that you just made for that person i would say where in your life are you not saying no and by that i mean where there's a no that wants to be said but you're not saying it because you're afraid of how the world will perceive you. You're afraid that people will not like you.

20:23You're afraid that people might be disappointed in you. Where is there a no that your organism wants to say but you're not saying it? Start with that. Where this week did I not say no? Where today did I not say no? And that usually happens in two arenas of life in personal relationships. it happens all the time in personal relationships and in work where there's a no that wants to be said but you're not saying it again to you that to know that you're not saying is going to be a source of stress for you so that's the first question other questions follow but that's the first one where am I not saying no that's a great first question everyone resonate with that that idea of where am I not saying no that resonates so strongly with me because I think you're spot on.

21:12We were talking about that in the first half. We were talking about that inner voice that if you just sit and listen to it, but we're moving so fast, we're so busy that that no can be really quiet. And it's like this little whisper that's barely getting to it. Well, that small, still voice that the Bible talks about, right? And there's a related question as well, which comes later in this same exercise, you might say, which is where am I not saying yes? There were times in my life where I had certain creative urges or desires, but I was too busy not saying no, that there was no space for me to say yes to what I wanted to say yes to.

21:48So those two questions, where am I not saying no? Excuse me. I just came back from a 12-day speaking trip, so my voice is saying no. And here you are. Yeah. I'd like to see you at the end of this trip. But those two questions, Those two little words, yes and no, they're crucial in people's lives. They're small little words in every language. They're very short little words. You know, German, nine. Hungarian, nem. Russian, net. You know, French, no. Really short little words. But they're just decisive in people's lives. And it's very interesting. Those of you that have been parents, what is the word that your kids start saying at one and a half?

22:40No. Put your shoes on. No. And you think, as a matter of fact, I had a friend, I've told this story before, I had a friend called Harold who had a son called Ben and we were medical residents at the same time. This is decades ago. It's like 47 years ago. And Harold, the father, says to his son, Ben, who's two years old, Ben, do you want an apple? And Ben said, no, I want an apple. And what that's about is nature putting a barrier for the child behind which he can develop his own self. And before your yeses mean anything, you have to be able to say no. And in this society, we call that, in our stupidity, we call that the terrible twos.

23:34When it's perfectly natural. wrong. So we start with that word and then we stifle it in people and at age 45 they don't know how to say no. It's so interesting because I feel like our mind convinces us. I don't know if you're like this as well. Our mind convinces us that I can't say no. Yeah. Like oh my god I just couldn't. Gabor if I started doing that my life would just fall apart. I can't do it. Like it's not possible and our mind says, oh no, and I can't say yes to this, so we almost kind of fool ourselves. Well, we do, and the Buddha said 2 ,500 years ago, almost in so many words, that with our minds we create the world.

24:18Now, if your mind lives in a world where you're saying no threatens you, then you're not going to say no. Now, what the Buddha didn't say is that, which is more modern psychology, is that before our minds create the world, the world creates our minds. So, if you grew up in a family where your no wasn't respected, where it was seen as a sign of disrespect, disobedience, something to be suppressed or punished, and your acceptance dependent on your acquiescence then you'll forget how to say no in order to protect yourself. So it starts off as an adaptation. Sometimes when I give my lectures I play a song by Elvis Presley.

25:08Did you see that wonderful documentary about Presley called The Return of the King? I haven't seen that one. Okay, it's wonderful. He goes through this phase where he He sings terrible songs where he gives upon his incredible charismatic energy and talent and just becomes a puppet in the hands of his manager. And then he does this comeback concert and he shows up on stage dressed like a god in leather clothing. Just the most beautiful man on earth. and he sings his raw, raucous, ribald, wonderful rock and roll and he's fully himself. But then he gave that up. And he sings this song called, Any Way You Want Me, That's the Way I'll Be.

25:57I'll be strong as a mountain or weak as a willow tree. I'll be anything that you want me to be. And that's how he ended up living his life. ended up dying very young in very tragic circumstances. He's somebody whose raw genius was of world significance and his energy was unbelievable and he gave it all up. Yeah. And he paid a heavy price. Yeah, those stories and when we have hindsight can be so powerful for us. Yeah. Even if we're not living that life or whatever it may be, they're so powerful for us to look back on And tonight, I wanted to make this an extremely special experience because I want you to know just how deeply grateful I am that you're here today.

26:43And I've asked Dr. Gabor as my first guest if he was comfortable leading and guiding an individual who wanted to go through his compassionate inquiry personally in this seat up here tonight. And so if there's anyone who's going through something feels like they've been held back, feel like they've been challenged, who wants to before we take questions would like to go through a process in front of the audience, he'd happily walk you through. So if you want to just raise your hands and I'll have a look around. Well, thanks for coming up. I hope you're not nervous. There's only a thousand stranger and thousands strangers watching you.

27:23What would you like to talk about? I'm on your chapter on attunement. attunement. I guess I would love to hear it from your point of view because I think I'm really trying as of this week to stop trying to explain myself and re-find my instinct and listen to my gut. And I would just stop trying to be seen, stop trying to explain myself is something I'm really working on right now and something I want to pass on to my children and would really love to see how that starts and I think you guys kind of gave a really good intro to that today. All right, thank you. So are you concerned about if you don't figure this out that might affect your children somehow?

28:07Yeah. Okay, well let's start with the beginning. How old are your kids? You said one and three? Yes. And how old were you when your mother began to work on herself?

28:23that's a tough question well what's the answer probably now okay what would it have meant for you if your mother had begun to work on herself when you were one years old it would have made a big difference how so

28:44you would know who you were yes you've already given that gift to your children notice that okay because you've already begun that work you've already began to answer those questions ask those questions so you got nothing to worry about that's the first point okay the second point is who's the one who's even asking the question who's the one that notices that sometimes you don't follow your gut that sometimes you don't listen to your heart who's the one in you that notices that? Me. Yeah, so you're already here. You say, I'm trying to be myself. You don't have to try anything. It's already here.