Emma Grede ON: The Formula to Building a Billion Dollar Empire & How Identifying Your Fears Will Help You Achieve Your Dreams

38:17I remember like there's this brilliant story about when Oprah was going through this like crazy, crazy time in her life. And she turns up at Quincy Jones's house for dinner. And she said to him, oh, my God, like it's so terrible. It's so awful. Have you seen the press? And he's like, what are you talking about? He hasn't seen anything. Right. Because at the end of the day, no one's watching you. No one's watching you like you're watching you. Most of your mistakes is in private. And so I often think about that because it's like everybody's so bothered about their own stuff. and what's going on in their head, they're not thinking about you.

38:48And so sometimes you just have to release a little bit. And I always try to think about like, what is real and what is ego, you know, and so much of it is ego. So especially around the mum part, funnily enough, right? Because we're all trying to do and be better than what we had and change things for our children and be this impossible, wonderful, perfect mother. And that's nothing to do with your kids because what your kids want is just a bit of you in the most simple way. They don't care about any of that stuff and so again it really is that challenge of really sitting down and speaking to your children and thinking to yourself like what actually matters and I think it's like those small moments yeah yeah that's well said and as I said as someone who received a lot of that from my mum I felt like I never doubted whether my mum loved me or not no whether she could come to my rugby game or not or whether she could come and watch me at the class rehearsals or dramas or whatever we were doing if she was there or she wasn't there that wasn't how i felt you knew she loved you yeah absolutely yeah because it was so it's it's such a core part of my life i feel today i have like so much love to give because of how much my mom loved me 100 and it's not that she was there every 100 so yeah and and on the flip side i'm sure there's people who would think god my parents were around all the time and and and i didn't necessarily and you didn't necessarily connect exactly i didn't necessarily feel connected yeah you've talked about this before and i really like it this whole idea of like you can't have it all and everyone's always talking about balance and I agree with you, I don't think balance exists either, even in my life, because I often get that, oh, Jay, mindfulness and meditation.

40:19I'm like, but that's not balance. Like you're actually constantly using these tools and techniques to be back at a point of equanimity. Yeah, exactly. To be back at a point of equanimity, but there isn't this idealized balance. No. When it comes to, you know, you and your partner, you both have great careers. You do some things together, lots of things individually. Absolutely. How does that, like, I guess my question there is, What is the one thing you both need from each other that allows you to stay connected whilst having collective empires, individual empires, and then a beautiful family as well on top of all of that?

40:55I honestly think that just comes down to love because it's different things in different moments. And if you really, really love someone, then you do what they need in that moment, whether or not it's good for you right there or what you might have discussed. right that comes down to do I really love this person and want the best for them in this thing this moment this decision and more than anything you know I have such an admiration for my husband in so many different ways in how he thinks and how he approaches things and what type of father he is and you know love does lots of different things but you know usually it grows or it dwindles right It's like in relationships.

41:38And I think that mine is still growing, but it just comes down to the fact that I love him. It isn't any more complicated than that. We have lots of things that we do together. And I do think there is a huge thing of this idea of chapters and having projects together. You know, to some extent, children are that because you go through this like, you know, trying to get pregnant and then being pregnant and then having the baby in those early days and then those stories about those early days and then buying houses together and doing those houses up. And so there is this element. And with us, we've also had the businesses that to some degree and in some businesses we've done those things together.

42:14And so there have been these chapters and these projects that have been extremely, I'd say, pivotal in our life. And you often see that when couples have kids that fly the nest, it's like suddenly they don't have a project anymore. It's like everything's done and they're like, okay, we don't have anything. So we have that together. But I feel like in my life, I'm extremely ritualistic. You know, that's just how I am. And there's parts of our relationship that have taken on some of those rituals in terms of, you know, how we think about time, just us and not with the children, how we think about setting up our mornings.

42:50And those things become sort of bedrocks and foundations that for what I think is like a healthy relationship. yeah what i really gained from what you're saying right now and i hope everyone's listening and taking notes too because there's so many great great insights that are like you're just sprinkling them everywhere and i'm like trying to catch them and there's i love the idea that if you value a relationship in your life your relationship's only as good as the stories you've lived together and the memories you've made and if you stop making stories and memories with people then you're constantly living in the past exactly which is so unhealthy yeah and you've seen that in so many friendships right when you're no longer creating together you have nothing but your old memories and after a while that just dwindles so you need to consistently create and that can be big things or small things it can be building a you know shed in your back garden but something that you live out together and you see to fruition and you create and you make and I think that that's a really important part of of relationships yeah and to keep doing that and keep getting exciting together about something and absolutely yeah rather than just like how was your day and then you're talking about your own world and then their world and all of that separation you know and that's how so many couples i think where it goes wrong you're kind of living out the most exciting parts of your life entirely separately and i feel with us you know it's like we just bought a cold plunge and like the cold plunge has become the thing right we're literally just like how many minutes are you gonna do how many minutes are you gonna do oh my god are you gonna put your head under like you know but it becomes this thing that you're living out together and now will be like cold plunge bullies to all of our friends you know even something so small like that can be so like magical for a relationship because you're learning and pushing and doing something together yeah we do the same do you no you don't yeah we do but my wife so laj my wife she's so good no she's not she's so good i'm so jealous i can't even try to be her because well Well, I married a Swedish man.

44:47So I feel like I'm at a disadvantage, like from the outset. I'm like, you were basically born in the ice. Like, come on. Like, of course you're better at this than I am. That's amazing. And then we've been playing pickleball as well. That's our other thing. Oh, pickleball. Have you played yet? I have a pickleball court, but I don't think I'm going to be on it anytime soon. It's so fun. You guys can come over and you can show us how it's done. It's so much fun. And again, it's just doing, taking on a new project and, you know, whatever it may be. I love that you were saying that you love memories and that you kind of almost have a memory bank.

45:17I was going to ask you, do you think there's a memory in your life that you've kind of like locked away or hidden away that you kind of like, it's almost like, have you seen that movie Inception? And it's like he locks it away in the basement and he never goes there because it kind of, it has, sometimes it can be good, bad, it can be anything, but do you have a memory you've locked away? I think I probably have a lot of memories that I've locked away. And, you know, it's really interesting. we should have maybe done this podcast like in a month I'm going to go to the Hoffman Institute I think I have an enormous amount of that in my life and I said to you earlier you know I think if you're not I think about my life in terms of like practice right it's like I'm practicing every day like who I want to be and I think that that's a great way to teach my children because they do what they see and I never beat myself up about my past who I've been my background where I came from because I know that I'm constantly moving and evolving.

46:16And I feel like if you're not working on yourself, then you're not really living. Do you know what I mean? I feel like the purpose of my life is to explore how I can be the best version of me. And I don't just mean that in business. I mean, in every single facet of my life, how can I be the best mom and the best wife and the best boss? Like all of those things that mean a lot to me, but it takes work and it takes practice and I don't get it right every single day and when I think to answer your question about memories and things I've locked away it's when I've not been proud of my behavior but those are always things that I am willing to kind of hold my hands up to and and work on and I feel like I've done especially now I live here you know you come and you do the work right it's like it's just the grown-up thing to do and I feel like that's been one of the reasons I've enjoyed being in a so much is because I've had this whole, obviously all the success with the businesses, but on this other side, I've had this huge, um, awakening in terms of who I am and who I'm supposed to be and how I'm evolving as a person.

47:23And so I really feel like those are things that I'm still exploring and I will be until the day I die. You know, I'm always in learning mode. I love that. And you were invited back afterwards as well. So you don't have to worry about, no no what i mean is i hope this is not going to be the last time you come but um what what's a memory that you'd love to relive or you revisit often mentally and you close your eyes and you're like yeah i'm there like i'd love to live that again because it was you know it's so crazy i think it's probably i mean feel so bad on my kids but the birth of my first child yeah like that was so insane and amazing and it's really funny because women like often say like everything changed then you know it's like and I and for me everything changed in that moment I remember having just had grey and Jens was holding him on like you know the side of the bed and I thought I have got to get out of this bed and go to the office and that's all I could think in my head because it's like all of a sudden I had the reason I was doing all of this stuff for and it never become more clear to me than in that moment I was like okay like now real life starts wow yeah yeah That's really how I felt.

48:34I was like, get me back into the office immediately. Oh my gosh. Forget the baby. Nothing about going home and snuggling with my child. I was like, I have a reason to do what I'm doing now. And that can coexist with loving your kids to death. A hundred percent. Because again, you can be so many different things. It's like, I am a super nurturing, hands-on mom and I really enjoy motherhood. I just have other stuff that I like too. Yeah, yeah. You know, why do you think we struggle to have those two ideas? Well, because society has set it up that you're one or the other, right? You're either putting on your heels and like banging out the door and like don't see your kids and put them to bed.

49:10Or you're like this really sweet mom. It's like, no, I'm both. I'm actually everything. I am every woman. Like just like tough. Do you know, it's like I think that actually what it is that, you know, there are all of these like misconceptions about what you are allowed to be. And I don't think we put those same things on men because men can be like totally in the office and killing the deal and like then just be this incredible dad throwing like a football on the weekend. It's like you're fully allowed and it's fine. But for women, it's not so fine. And so, you know, so much of what I do in my work and my businesses and actually just sort of trying to be honest about me and how I operate is to dispel a lot of those myths.

49:54because I do think that we are not one dimensional and you can be so many different things and also so many different things to different people. You know, I'm one person to my husband and one to my kids. And if you were to come in my office, I think they'd give you a whole different version of me. I like it all over it. It's true that we all have to, there's all different facets to each part of ourselves. And I wonder - But it's about the level of acceptance, right? Like, are you allowed to be that? and is it accepted? And that's why, you know, Jay, it's so interesting. I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast where a man has been asked about imposter syndrome.

50:33Not once. It is a question that is the special reserve for women, as is the question of balance. No one says, hey, Jens, how are you balancing it? Oh, the brands and the business and the kids. No one says that to my husband. I'm glad they didn't ask both of those questions. I just made it out there. No, but they say it to me every day, every single day. what is it like to be a black woman in business i'm like what kind of question is that you know but there are things that for women just like we're still not able to get over this idea that we have in our heads that we can't be many things to many people and i just don't believe in that at all yeah no i'm with you i'm with you and and i really feel that naturally all those questions are coming because that's what people are scared about and insecure about and worried about and And it's, as you said, it's come because it's been created in society.

51:21I read a, there was this research paper a long time ago, and I won't get it absolutely accurate. But the point was that when men and women look at a job application, if men can do some of it, they'll apply. And even if women can't do one part of it, they won't apply. I see that every single day in my own office, right? A guy will work for me for six months and come and ask me for a pay rise. And then I will say to a woman, I don't think you've had a pay rise for like a year and a half. Do you know what I mean? It's like, or somebody that will come in and say, I speak absolutely fluent Spanish and a woman who's pretty 90 % there won't even mention it.

51:56So there are those obvious things. And that's just about, you know, so many times for women, there is this natural nurturers, we naturally play down our skills. And I think that that is just something that society has taught us. And so I think about it all the time. I'm quite the opposite. You know, I'll go in and pretend I can do anything in a pitch meeting or it's like I'll say what needs to say to get it done. Do you know what I mean? but I do think that for so many women there is this like sort of magical golden moment in your life where you're free of a lot of constraints you know maybe you don't have a mortgage you don't have children yet you're not in a really serious relationship where there is this moment to be incredibly selfish and for most women when all of the responsibilities pile on they stop doing that and I think that actually just as women we would do better to be selfish for longer in our and that's the type of thing and and so many people will be like oh i just don't like the word i can't you find another way to dress it up absolutely no because i mean what i say you do have to think about yourself because nobody else is thinking about that for you everybody else is too busy thinking about this themselves and so this idea of being selfish shouldn't feel like such a foreign thing for women or a dirty word for women it's like you have to be there is no other way to get ahead and to do what you want to do.

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54:23This is Jay Shetty from On Purpose, and if you've ever felt like you've lost touch with yourself, try changing your surroundings, even for just a few days. Delta recently invited four creators to do just that. Two trips, one question. What if travel isn't just movement, but recharging in motion. In Seattle, they focused on routine and self-care, gym time, grounding walks, and meditation. In Copenhagen, they let go, biking, saunas, and embracing the moment. And what surprised them most? Their usual stress faded. They felt clearer, calmer, more connected. And Aura Ring data backed it up. Based on their Aura Ring sleep scores, everyone met the day feeling more rested.

55:07And their bodies moved more without even trying. Travel gave them space to practice self-care and not restriction, but balance. And the best part? That sense of well-being didn't end when they got home. With Delta, fly and live better. Explore the whole journey on Delta's YouTube channel. Okay, I'm going to assume that everybody messages their friends. I'm also going to assume you've run into some issues when messaging, especially during group chats. I know I have. One time I sent a message way too fast, full of typos, and everyone had to guess what I was even trying to say. WhatsApp can help.

55:48First, you can message privately with everyone, even if you're all using totally different phones. It just works. Sent a message too fast and instantly regretted it? No problem, just edit it. And when the chat gets a little too intense, you can switch to a group video call and actually talk it out. Photos and videos come through super clear and messages get delivered without weird gaps or delays. Plus, WhatsApp has so many great features like polls, pinned messages, and even event invites with RSVPs so planning stuff doesn't just turn into a mess. I mean, it just makes a lot of sense. It's time for WhatsApp.

56:28Message privately with everyone. yeah and it's hard isn't it when like you were saying you've tried to be the boss that you didn't have i can identify with that i try and be the boss bosses that i didn't have and i think it is really wonderful when you see a great relationship building with people you work with where they recognize you're being the boss that they never had as well and you are too. and you're also realizing they're being a great person of your team that hasn't been like other people have been. How have you learned to like sense that and know that when you're like, okay, well, me and this person can go and build together and create together or this is the right person to recruit onto my team or like what are the things that you're looking at and trying to decipher?

57:12Because I think right now we do live in a world where also people are thinking about a job as a paycheck and they don't care, whereas you're very passionate, you're very driven. You always have been since the deli. So it's like, if you've cared that much about the deli and the sandwich, obviously you care so much about what you do today. How do you do that? Well, you know, I think I'm really realistic because you will have those people in your business that come to work with you literally because, you know, a good American, we are B Corp registered, right? And people feel that they want to work in a company that cares about the environment, that cares about what they're putting out.

57:44And you'll get people that care about the mission and the vision and the values. But I don't expect that everybody will care. I know that there are some people that just come and they just want their paycheck. And so for me, I try to separate who I am and what I might need from what somebody else might need. My expectation is that not everybody's bouncing in there trying to kill it for me, right? I'm pretty sure that a lot of these people come in and they do their job and they're working on their side hustle halfway through the day. And that's okay. You know, it's like, that's not for everyone.

58:15And I think that as I've got older, I've learned not to put my type of ambition on, you know, or not to try to reflect that onto everybody that's around me. And those people will, of course, they'll rise to the top, they'll make themselves known, but it isn't for everybody. You know, it's just a fact. And also, you need that when you're building a team. If everybody was an ambitious little monster, it would be a disaster. You know, you need people happy to come in, grind, do their job and leave at five o 'clock that's just facts yeah absolutely how did you make that leap like you just said earlier i'm just connecting the dots you were like i was never around anyone who's an entrepreneur had their own business everyone worked a job yeah how did you accident jay steady okay go on it was a total accident because you know i never set out to start my own company i was frustrated that i wasn't being paid enough where i worked and then was like all right well if you don't like that, then you're going to have to do something else.

59:14But I was also acutely aware that no one was going to come and hand me a company on a plate. Like, here's this company to run. You person with no experience and, you know, you kind of jumped up 24 year old. And so I was very like acutely aware that I'd have to do it myself. And that's where it came from. Like, you know, I'd love to say that I had this like great idea and this great ambition, but it came out of like frustration and not being paid enough and feeling like I wasn't getting the value back that I put in. That's the honest answer. Yeah, no. And I think that's very relatable. I think most people are in positions like that, but that doesn't lead to the courage to do it because we feel like, well, what if it doesn't work?

59:54What will my friends say? And all those kinds of things that come up because we're scared. Even for me, like I remember I had a steady job and I was, this is after I'd left the monastery, had come back home. I'd finally found a steady job. I was dating my... It's such a good sentence after I left the monastery. Isn't it good? You should try and wind that in anyway. I'd be like, so after I left the monastery... I was just trying to give context, Emma. This is the British banter. Emma's like, fully, I love it. I love it. I don't have a sentence like that and I want one. I might just take it. After.

1:00:30Bang it out. You've got Ibiza, you've got plenty. But no, so I was in the steady job and it was like, I was dating my now wife and I remember going, this is not working for me. Like, and I wasn't killing it and I wasn't doing badly. I was, I was doing all right, but I just knew it wasn't my place. Yes. And I remember I probably spent two years there feeling that way. Totally. Totally. You kind of just, you're just thinking about it, reflecting on it. You're like, what do I do? What if it doesn't work? And so walk us through that a little bit, because I think a lot of our listeners may actually be feeling that way.

1:01:05a lot of our audience is actually listening going you know what I'd love to I'd love forget doing what Emma's done now I'd just love to get out where I am now because you know what I mean I think the truth of it was that I've never been that scared of failing yeah right and for me at that time in my life I was making a small amount of money it's fair to say that I didn't have any you know no one was relying on me to to pay rent or I had a tiny tiny little I lived in like a high rise in East London with no front door and a gate on the door, no oven, just a microwave, no fridge. I put my milk on the balcony just to paint the picture of like where I was at that time in my life.

1:01:44It was rough. And honestly, what I thought is that how could I lose? Like at this point, I could always go and get another similarly not inspiring job. And so that idea of like fear of not failing was really key but I also was really I've always been very honest with myself like you know everybody has a voice in their head and some people have a voice that like chats them up you know it's like I do but I also have that voice that's like Emma like know what you don't know like don't be too silly in this situation so I think that I really in that instance where I decided like let's get out of this job and try to go and do something else it was enough understanding of it wasn't that good where I was.

1:02:28If it really didn't work out, I could always get back into something like that. But also that, that thing that just says, what happens if you don't do it? You know, like for me, I was miserable and I really saw a better life for myself. And I was like, I will just regret this when I'm 35, for example. And so it was really about just going like, you know, no one's going to take a chance on me. I have to take the chance on me. And then And maybe someone else will be inspired to take a chance at me, which is ultimately what happened. I left that role. I got employed in another job. And then when I got into that job, my now husband and business partner at that time, they kind of saw me and they were like, well, this girl's like kind of good.

1:03:13She has something. And they ended up being my first investors when I was 25 years old. That's incredible, isn't it? Which was crazy, which to me, even at the time, it felt crazy. and I remember questioning I was like why would anyone invest in me and then I thought no of course they'll invest in me who else you're going to invest in like you might as well I'm as good as anybody else out there and that's when that thing started ticking in so I think sometimes you've just got to not be too afraid to lose and you know the truth is Jay I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded right we don't talk about that that's not in the articles I don't post that on Instagram but that's just the fact like I've made so many mistakes before I got here and had three very successful companies.

1:03:54I had a dog of an agency that I opened here in a very successful business that was thriving in London and thriving in New York. And I opened an office in LA and I embarrassed myself. I completely let the, you know, I let the company down, I let the board down, I let the staff down, I under-invested, I did all of the classic mistakes. And, you know, at the time I felt like it was the end of like my company and my career, but it wasn't, it was just a failure I've had lots of things like that happen lots of you know public embarrassments and things that didn't work out and it's you know it sounds like such an obvious thing but it's like well how do you recover from that and so for me it's like always been this thing of like all right well I've dust myself off I've survived worse you know and I think a lot of that comes from my upbringing you know it's like you see a lot of stuff go down and you can get through things yeah I think I'm pretty good at getting through things and this is that Quincy moment where I'm like I didn't even no like you know it's like see there you go yeah it's amazing it's just like you just you know you it's so fascinating how quickly we are it's it's so fascinating how quickly we point out people's faults and then forget about them 100 and and it's that happens so fast because it's not as fun a story right people want at the end of the day i believe in you know the goodness of humans we default want good good stuff for each other and we want to see each other win and people are very happy to celebrate alongside you you're much more concerned about your failures you're much more concerned about your fears than anybody else out there and I think every now and again I kind of just have to tune myself back into to that piece of it yeah and it sounds like what I really like is that you've got this ability and I've been watching the whole interview and it's like you've got this ability to know what the different voices in your head are yes like you're very clear about like this is the one that's being real this is the ego this is giving me the hype that I need right now 100 but also you know i know their voices i know they're not me yeah and i always knew that because i have an ability like my whole superpower in life is about being able to turn it on and off and so i am acutely aware that those are just things and that i have at my disposal and sometimes they work to my advantage and sometimes they work to my disadvantage but i don't think that it's me does that make sense like it's like i know who i am i like it ain't all of that it's not the chatter none of it it's just I'm something else yeah it's I mean that's a incredible distinction to know and have and build did that come from did you read something did you learn something was it just you started listening to yourself did you spend a lot of time alone I'm intrigued as to what you did to gain that skill because it's a skill and you're obviously aware of it you know I think I'm just that like Oprah generation do you know what I mean I'm in this weirdness yeah you come home every day from school Oprah was on the tv telling you to be grateful you think what do I have to be grateful for?

1:06:43Have you seen my house? Have you seen my trainers? I need new shoes. Like, you know, and it's like, I didn't get it then, but I started to believe it. And I started to read, you know, I am an avid reader. I read so much, everything and always have since I was 13. And again, it was that means of escapism. And so I started reading things like, you know, the power of now or like, you know, like all of these things that like conversations with God. I remember, But, you know, it's like I read that book and I was like, like just blew my mind because I didn't know anybody that thought like that. And so maybe I just absorbed it.

1:07:21A bit of Oprah, a couple of books, you know, and it went in. I understood it and it made sense to me. No, it's as simple as that. And the same generation, like I grew up in the same way. And it's so true how like these tiny little messages just start connecting dots. And that's kind of what kids are built on and young people are built on. And it isn't, you could have heard the same thing at school every day, but because it wasn't simplified and easy and digestible, you don't remember it, but you remember the random TV show you watched that your parents had on in the background. Exactly. Yeah. That's amazing.

1:07:53Yeah. No, I love, I love witnessing it in an interview with someone where you're like, wow, this person's so aware. And I want to talk more about, hopefully this is what you don't get to talk about as much, or maybe like you're saying, like men get asked this stuff and maybe women don't. I'm intrigued. But like we were talking earlier, you're a brand marketing genius. Like you're super attentive, aware, conscious. You have this ability to think about products and brand in a different way. How do you select problems to solve? How do you choose which problems you want to work on and then make sure that you build something that actually solves that problem?

1:08:28I think about it in the sense of myself. I think it would be very difficult for me, and I'm not saying other people can't do it, but to do things that you can't relate to, right? So I always start with the idea that if it's a problem for me, likelihood is it's a problem for other people like me, whether that be other young women or other women in the middle of America. But it's like the starting point, it's always, what do I find problematic? And then I think the lens and the kind of red thread that goes through all of my companies is this idea that, and again, I hate saying it because in the last kind of five years, it's almost become like this sort of buzzword.

1:09:10But when we think about inclusivity in business and what that actually means, including and thinking about the most amount of people possible. When I started Good American, it was actually a reaction to this idea that so many women, women of color, plus size women, are just completely left out of the fashion conversation. And why is their dollar any less valuable than anybody else's? And so I had worked in marketing for all of these years. For 15 years, I grew this incredible agency. And I'd done castings and, you know, put projects and collaborations together for the biggest and best brands in the whole world.

1:09:51And I'd been part of actually falsifying an image of inclusivity. You know, it's like you have a group cast you need a black girl and an asian girl and then this and this and this and actually when you thought about the product and when you thought about the senior management of those companies it looked nothing like that right it just the product didn't work for anyone over a certain size and the boardrooms were just all made up of typically like white men making the decisions usually for women and i just sort of thought to myself there must be a better way to start a company but it came from problem solving for myself and i go back to this idea of like you know when you think about businesses it makes more sense that they would be geared towards serving more people that's just good business right forget de and i forget like you know this idea of diversity equity inclusion doing some being something that companies need to do now it's just good business and when i talk about it this idea of inclusivity and diversity being a superpower in business, it's not something that I just say, it's something that I do.

1:10:57That's where the process actually starts. I'm thinking about how can I best serve customers, the most amount of people. And then when there's an acknowledgement of someone who isn't usually acknowledged, of course, it goes without saying that suddenly they feel seen, they feel heard. And they're like, I'm going with this girl, I'm going with this brand, because it's the first time anyone's spoken directly to them. And I think that that's such a, it's such an under thought about part of business. You know, people usually bolt it on at the end and I'm like, no, no, no, no. It's right where you start.

1:11:28It's in the inception of those products. It's in making 32 sizes. It's in doing nine different shades. It's in the very, very beginnings of what you're creating. And then you can dress it up and make it look nice and put the right kind of branding on it. But actually it starts way earlier than that and so i i actually think about customers in a way that i think most people don't where did you not learn that but where did you learn to look to understand that obviously it started with yourself but i'm like why didn't people do that before because like you just said it's better business it's better financially it makes more sense it makes more people happy what do you think blocks companies just comes from where decisions are being made right because it's like you don't know what you don't know and i've sat in enough rooms trying to pitch enough businesses to a group of people that aren't my end audience.

1:12:16And I have actually said in meetings before, maybe you should phone your wife or daughter, like literally, like phone them, because you don't understand this because it's not for you, you know? And so I think that decisions are made in such a abstract way in most companies. And, you know, you see this when, you know, companies make mistakes, right? There we've seen a lot of like big fashion brands and big consumer brands make mistakes that have seemingly kind of come across as like insensitive, racist, completely misogynistic. That's just where a decision is made. A company isn't inherently racist, like the whole company.

1:12:53It's just the decision making process is flawed. I.e. there's not enough people in the room of a different background to say, hey, perhaps put the t-shirt on the other kid, like then it won't be an issue. So I think that this just comes from the the idea of like where are the decisions made in that company and who's making the decisions and i know that the more people you bring around the table from different backgrounds we're not just talking about race here we're talking about age education the full gambit like the better the company will be yeah that is such great i i love what you just said about asking someone to call their partner or their daughter or son or whatever it may be because you're so right like i think so many people sit in meetings and they're looking around going when these people don't know what they're talking about or like they just don't understand.

1:13:40How have you maintained like, I guess the question is how many of those meetings have, did you have to sit in until you felt like I'm just going to do this or we're just going to figure it out? Or did you look for someone who agreed with you and had your values and did the research or was it kind of like, we're just going to build it ourself? Like how much, give us a bit of that because I think a lot of people. You know, it's so interesting. I'm at that point in my career now where I don't sit in a lot of meetings now they pitch me which is lovely the shoes on the other foot I'm like come over here and I'll let you know if you can come in um uh but in the early days you know I I think that I sat in a lot of situations feeling like um you know the great thing is I never doubted myself or any of those ideas I just thought I hadn't found the right people yet it's a little bit like you know I'm happy to kiss a lot of frogs and I always have been because again I don't think it should be so easy when you're doing something that is new and without so much definition and unproven like it's supposed to be hard and again it's like anything I never let it get to me I just was like oh poor chicken he doesn't get it yet and he will do and he'll kick himself you know and that's fine you know it's just it's part of it and I don't mean that in a smug way but I never I never doubted what I was doing I was very very clear especially when we started Good America and I was like this thing people don't understand and we'll just get them to understand it yeah definitely yeah no and I think that's such a great mindset to have and to not have the the smugness or bitterness because exactly that person just wasn't in the right space you don't know what you don't know right totally it's totally cool I feel like that all the time I'm like I'm trying to find the people who want to be part of this story.

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1:16:41This is Jay Shetty from On Purpose, and if you've ever felt like you've lost touch with yourself, try changing your surroundings, even for just a few days. Delta recently invited four creators to do just that. Two trips, one question. What if travel isn't just movement, but recharging in motion? In Seattle, they focused on routine and self-care. Gym time, grounding walks, and meditation. In Copenhagen, they let go. Biking, saunas, and embracing the moment. And what surprised them most? Their usual stress faded. They felt clearer, calmer, more connected. And Oura Ring data backed it up. Based on their aura-ing sleep scores, everyone met the day feeling more rested.

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1:18:46Message privately with everyone. Of course, because they won't be great partners to you down the line, right? Absolutely. You either get it and you want to be part of it and you are happy to know that you don't know it all, right? Because it's about new space. It's like if we were all doing the same thing and trying to set up the same companies, we'd never find a skims. Exactly. You know, it's like you'd never land on it. You'd be like, that's too complicated. hey, that's not how we do things. And you skip over the great stuff. How have you managed to continue to stay hungry and also stay innovative when things are good?

1:19:21Like before you talked about, I didn't like my job, I wanted to get out. You know, milk was outdoors. I was, you know, like there's a pain that pushes you in a better direction. I'm not saying you don't have pain anymore. Of course, there's stresses. I don't have that much pain. I have daily dramas, but the pain is gone. You know what it is? you are fueled every day by a piece of it is competition right it's like I I look at everything there is no one who knows more about jeans and knickers than I do I look at every competitor I go out in the market I see it I know like the promotional cadence I know everything everybody else is doing and I think that that that natural um inquisitiveness is part of what keeps me good um but at the end of the day it's like i just want to win you know it's like i don't feel satisfied and also it's like how could you it's just been a couple of years there's loads of people that have had successes for six and for three years i don't think that's the end goal the end goal is to build like you know generational or generationally defining businesses and that doesn't happen quickly and also i'm not stupid enough to think like or to let a few years success get to me there's a lot of people that had a few years success you know that's not the end game and so i think about now it's about you know really taking the foundations of what we feel not sacrificing any of your principles and still being able to grow and to thrive and to hire people but that gets more and more difficult the bigger you get right there's one thing saying oh we're going to do business this way when there are 10 of you and you're doing a million dollars it's very very different all these years in because there's there's no model there's nothing that you can go out and emulate we are making it up as we're going along yeah how do you how do you define winning now like is that how you define winning or you know i define winning now by doing things that excite me like you know it's like we just launched this insane push-up bra at skims and everyone's talking about it it's all over the place and you know like that's exciting to me because like some one of my girls in england will call me and be like oh my god i need to get that You know, it's like, I love that.

1:21:39And I still get a thrill from, you know, it's like, I love what I do. Like, I genuinely really love it. And I just want to keep getting better at it. And for me, it comes in so many different ways. It's like, I love giving people opportunities. I love the hiring part of it and getting to work with all different people. And I think that those things for me feel really successful. But if you were to ask me just to like boil it down, it would be like to continue the growth and what we're doing without sacrificing the principles that we set the companies up with. Right, right, right. Yeah. I don't want to dial it down because we're, you know, reaching some kind of like critical mass.

1:22:17Yeah, yeah. How do you, you know, we were talking about that. You have daily dramas, you said, not pains. Nobody talks to me when things are going well. My life is just a series of problems. You know, from the minute I wake up to, you know, the minute I go to bed, like that's just a fact. The stress level is unbelievable. And I do think that's important because you wouldn't know that looking at me or maybe just speaking to me. But, you know, my job is not all, you know, trying different fabrics out and hanging around my models. That's just not what I do. Yeah. What do you find to be the most stressful thing about building a business?

1:22:57and what do you do in order to deal with it? I think the most stressful thing is probably the expectations, right? That that comes from the outside. I honestly believe you're only as good as your last launch. I never, ever drink the Kool-Aid, ever. And I think that, you know, I happen to work in extremely high-profile businesses where everything that we do is scrutinized. And with that comes a level of stress. It comes back to that thing of being very ritualistic. I, you know, am militant about the things that work for me. You know, I suffer with migraines. I get super, you know, I carry stress like in my body.

1:23:36And so it's like I get up very early. I wake up, I work out, I meditate. I make sure I have to be up before my children are up because I need like quiet time. I need time to like focus. I'm like religiously grateful. Like I've trained myself to focus on the great stuff in my life because I feel like there is so much noise, you know, whether I like it or not. And so I could be overwhelmed every day in the things that are going on around me. And at the end of it, I'm like looking up going, wow, the ceiling in my bedroom, like how could you even have a ceiling? I could never imagine that. I'd have such a beautiful ceiling ever.

1:24:17You know, it's like I am someone who truly stops to smell the roses, like quite literally. I can find good happiness, joy in anything. And I really make it a point and a priority to do that every day. And even as I have my tea, you know, it's like I have special tea from Japan and I have a special pot that I put it in. And I just like taste it. And every day it's like I'm tasting it for the first time. But if I didn't do those things, I would lose my mind. You know, I would lose my mind. And so I think I've just trained myself to like enjoy the kind of the rituals and the small things and be hyper grateful because there is no difference between me and all of those kids that I went to school with in East London.

1:24:59And I should be so lucky. It's like we're here in the sunshine overlooking the whole of LA. I'm chatting to you. I'm going to go into my office where I'm the boss and people are going to film me chatting about stuff like I don't have anything to complain about. Yeah. But I bet, and from what I've learned today, you were like that even when the milk was outside. A hundred percent I was. I was like, at least I have a balcony. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a fridge, but I have a balcony. Yeah. Because if it wasn't there then, it wouldn't be there now. A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. If you went on a walk with little Emma as a memory, you like held hands and you went on a little walk with her, what do you think she'd say to you?

1:25:39I think she'd say, well done, love. You did it. Keep going. Keep going. Yeah, I think so. What would you say back? I'd say I am. I'm trying. I'm doing it. I'm literally walking forward now. Stop putting pressure on me. I always sit here and I think, oh my goodness, like I'm so proud of myself. But honestly, Jay, when I think about what that means for me now and the level of responsibility that I feel, That is the thing that really fuels me today, because when I do something, I feel a weight and an expectation of a group of people that have been historically left out and marginalized from a lot of these conversations and a lot of these opportunities.

1:26:25And there is this huge sense of responsibility that I have for women, especially sort of young black women and minority women and kids that just grew up poor anywhere. I think about all that stuff every single day. And I think that real success for me will be when I am, you know, able to really pull what I've got and what it is that I kind of like strive for and continue to achieve and and have that affect a lot more people. And I do that in ways, you know, like through my chairmanship of the 15 % pledge, that's been like a huge undertaking, an amazing amount of work that I have been able to do.

1:27:10but for me it's like that is only kind of scratching the surface and I think more and more of my work will be in how can I help so many more people that are like me you know get out of their circumstances and be able to contribute more because it just is mesmerizing to me that I've been able to go so far and it ain't because I'm something special it's because there were a series of circumstances and then enough kind of grit and determination that I was able to do it and so it's like how do you put other people into the same circumstances so that if they have the will that they can do it too and so that's where I'm fixated right now what's been one of your favorite success stories from that or like a memory or story from that well you know it's so funny because it happens again in the small in the smallest ways right it's like I'll have a chat I I get hundreds of people reach out to me to say, listen, I'm starting a business.

1:28:04I, you know, I'm selling$10 ,000 a month in this COVID brand. And it's like, I'll jump on the phone and I'll give someone some advice. Like, you know, I had a girl a couple of years ago. She was like, I think I'm going to get into Selfridges and I want to know how to do that. How do I structure the contract? Anyway, fast forward two years later, I do my first ever like ask me anything because my team pressured me into it. I'm like social is just not my bag. But anyway, so I do the first ask me anything and all the girls are asking me the same questions. How do you start a business? How do you thrive?

1:28:33And this girl comes up and she says, I just want to let you know that I now do however many tens of thousands a week at Selfridges. And it was all because you helped me walk through that contract. And I took your advice and I, you know, I stuck to the distribution plan and did it. And I was like, oh, my God, you know, and so it's always those tiny things for me. um and again that's just about giving someone your time so i'm really trying to think thoughtfully about how i can do more of that in a more systematic and a bigger way because sadly i can't answer every phone call or every dm that comes through yeah what are you talking about that's so beautiful and i think that that component is such a big part of happiness and success because you're so right like no one who's got the top is any more special just going back to what your mom said at the beginning no you ain't better than anyone else and as soon as you start thinking it or people also start thinking it that oh yeah that person's there because they're faster smarter better or when we do the opposite when we go they don't deserve to be there exactly no both of those just take it away and i i look at your journey and i'm i'm so i i like really admire the way you live and think like it's really it's it's such a wonderful mindset and it's such a strong you've been able to craft something that's so resilient and and you can and yeah it's so what you've been able to build and i'm talking about almost like if we were able to physically look at your mindset it's so resilient because i can hear as we've approached it from so many different points of view it's like you have such a clear philosophy on how you live who you are what matters what doesn't matter yeah and i look at that clarity when i see you as like that's the reason you are who you are and where you are it's because you're just so clear and and i feel like no matter was what would happen either way it's like that is what you're betting on and that's what you've been building and focused on i think so yeah i think so someone write that down i really mean it i really mean it's so kind it's so kind no i love that you say that it makes me it makes me so happy because you never think about yourself in such clear terms like that right in never you are who you are in so many ways you know and I see that with my own kids they're like four people that I think well you've got exactly the same upbringing we all live in the same house I don't do one thing different and yet they are just these like four tiny individuals and at six months it's like you know exactly what kind of kids you've got like you know if this kid is like super anxious if this kid's super obnoxious like you know exactly who they are I'm sure there's lots of things and changes coming in their lives but so much of it is just in you right and you know and then you layer circumstances onto that and you know what you're capable of what you can and can't affect and what you should be doing and so I always look at it it's like I was living like a very nice very privileged life in England and I moved here specifically for work and it's been wonderful for work but in so many other facets of my life being in LA has been an eye-opener and it's actually fueled me in a way that I really never expected.

1:31:45And I always think, you know, if you elevate your health, you elevate your life. It's like if you elevate your thinking, you elevate, you know, what your capabilities are. And so for me, it's just been wonderful and an amazing moment to be here because I've been able to elevate so many things that I do. And I think that that should only end up in like a bunch of other people being able to benefit from that. Absolutely. Well said. Write that down. print it out that was yeah no absolutely like I think it's it's incredible how you know I think a lot of people label LA as Hollywood and think of it as just that yeah but it's like I feel the same way as you like moving here like my eyes have opened up to so many more things totally that are really valuable important insightful I've met people who are doing incredible things you know what you just said now of like opening the door and trying to break down we had you know just a few months ago we had lewis hamilton here talking about 44 and talking about how he's trying to help you know trying to help people of color get into the world of uh formula one which isn't normal which him and his father were able to do like you you start seeing that happen across fashion sports business and and that's so incredible because you start thinking about all those little emmers and little lewises and everyone else out there totally who's just trying to figure out whether they have a shot yeah and 100 they do yeah emma we we end every episode with a final five which we sit down and do as a fast five which means every answer has to be one word to one sentence maximum one word to one sentence all right but i always i always ruin it because i get intrigued so all right okay so emma greed these are your final five the first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

1:33:30I wish that I could make this sound as powerful as it was for me. That's the first thing to say, but it's a good one. It was to make a decision and move on because you can be so stifled by your decisions. And when you are just stuck, it just does so many other things to you. And so I think it served me really well in so many ways. I used to think about it just for business and now I don't. I think it's make a decision and move on. Yeah, I always say to people, stop trying to make the right decision. Just make a decision and then make it right. Totally. You know, you can do it afterwards. You can go back afterwards.

1:34:05Yeah, I love that. That's great. We've never had that on the show. Don't sit still. Love that. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Stay in your lane. What was the lane? I don't know, but someone was trying to stifle me. And lucky enough, I listened to my little Emma inside and gave her a big old beep. never stay in your lane but it's interesting because i think all the growth in my life has come when i have stepped outside of whatever lane i was in at that time yeah and so it's useless advice absolutely uh question number three how would someone who doesn't know you that well describe you in three words i wish if you're listening to this you just missed out on the That's facial expression.

1:34:52You need to go to YouTube right now. It's always such a worry. I mean, goodness me, the things I've been called. How would someone describe me? I think they would describe me as like kind. I'm a kind person. Ambitious. And like not to be messed around with. Got it. I like it. I like the third one. Not to be messed around. I couldn't think about the one word, right? Yeah, no, that's good. I think that's what people think about me. They're like tough. yeah tough tough yeah kind but tough yeah and ambitious question number four how would someone who knows you very deeply describe you in three words sensitive very thoughtful and um tough

1:35:39that's brilliant we need to get your husband on the podcast to verify just to verify for sure you go tough tough and tough i love it and emma your final question uh fifth to final question if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be you know very specifically for the time we're in right now it would be to lead with kindness nothing else yeah we need it in every little interaction in everything it's so powerful and it's what i teach my kids you know it's like just be kind like it doesn't take much and it goes so unbelievably far you know and when i say that about myself being kind it's like that is something that i think about every single day like how am i treating people what do people get from me and I'm talking about everyone, you know, like everyone.

1:36:40It's just a fact. Just be kind. Emma Grieg, thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. This was incredible. Everyone who's been listening and watching, wherever you are, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're at the gym, whether you're driving to or from work, whether you're listening with your friends, I want you to know that please go and tag me and Emma in the moment that stood out to you. Maybe there's a quote. Maybe there's, there was so much wisdom sprinkled across this entire episode. I hope that you find the ones that resonate with you. I hope that this helps you make a shift in your career.

1:37:08I hope this helps you make a shift in your mindset about how you're trying to balance what's going on in your world. I hope this helps you think differently about the choices and decisions you're about to make. Please, please, please tag me and Emma across social media to let us know what stood out to you. Please show her a ton of love. Emma, thank you for doing this. Thank you for opening up. Thank you for being so real and wonderful to spend this much time with. Oh, it's been a pleasure. I've loved every second. I'm so grateful to you. Thank you, Jay. So good to see you. Thank you. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child.

1:37:46You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, that is so unfair because that's not who I am. And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am. Why does anything else matter? Let's be honest. Life is a good is stressful. It's work, it's relationships, and the state of the world. But there's a way to bring that stress level down. Calm. It's the number one app for mental wellness with tons of content to manage anxiety, promote concentration, and help you unwind. There's music, meditation, and more.

1:38:20Calm makes it easy to de-stress. You can literally do a one-minute breathing exercise. Personally, I love the soundscapes. Nothing like a little rain on leaves to help soothe my nervous system. I've actually been working with Calm for a couple of years now, and I'd love for you to check out my series on reducing overwhelm, eight short practices, quick relief. Right now, listeners of On Purpose get 40 % off a subscription to Calm Premium at calm.com forward slash j. That's c-a-l-m dot com forward slash j-a-y for 40 % off. Calm your mind, change your life. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve.

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1:39:42Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA. Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. This is Jay Shetty from On Purpose. If you've ever felt off balance, sometimes a change of scenery is the best reset. Delta invited four creators to explore one idea. What if travel isn't just movement, but recharging in motion? And the results? Based on their Aura Ring sleep scores, everyone met the day feeling more rested. And a sense of clarity stayed long after the trip. With Delta, fly and live better. Explore the whole journey on Delta's YouTube channel. Checking off the boxes on your to-do list is a great way to keep your mind clear.

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