Giles Yeo: The #1 Reason You’re NOT Losing Weight (Follow THIS Diet and Start Losing Weight TODAY!)

25:02Is that your challenge? Like are just normal foods being, Like what about tomatoes and they taste different. But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show.

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27:16Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine. It's as if a man landed on the moon and nobody even told the story, except this is more important. Listen to the Cardiac Cowboys podcast starting February 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. I remember one year I was in, when I spent more time in India, I remember the vegetables just taste different. Like they have flavor. Whereas here, every cucumber tastes the same. You won't notice anything different. Okay, so I think the flavor really, really does matter.

27:54I think nutritionally, I mean, people say that the vegetables here, or if you grow them in a certain way, you get less nutrients from them. That's probably overstating it. I don't think that's necessary. Interesting. I do think, however, that if you're growing vegetables, first of all, using more natural techniques rather than intensive techniques, you are going to get less pesticides and less things. So just on that, that's better for you already, right? Because you're not eating so many chemicals. I do think that they are more intense in flavor Okay, and does flavor mean more minerals and more things?

28:29Probably a little bit of that But ultimately, I don't think the vegetables here are bad for you They just are not as tasty And depending on what you're eating, I think are going to be full of pesticides And other things that we probably don't want to eat that much of I don't think that actually there are fewer good things than the vegetables here They just don't taste as nice Yeah, how is it that? Another thing I hear a lot is hey, I'm eating the same exact thing as this other person over here, but they have a six pack and I can't even lose weight. Why is that happening? I'm sure you hear this too.

29:00I do. I do hear this. So there is an element of truth there that we deal with calories differently. So there are two elements of it. So obviously there's this, you can break down why someone gains weight into a number of different things. First of all, how much do they eat? That is my expertise. That's primarily what I study. But even if you ate exactly the same thing, once it gets into you, there are two elements. There's first of all, your efficiency. So in other words, for every given calorie, how many, for amount of protein, for what have you, how efficient are you at releasing the calories?

29:34That's going to differ between you and me. That's the first thing. The second thing is what we call nutrient partitioning. So when it comes in, how much do you burn? How much do you store? And crucially, when you store it, where do you store it? And so all of those have genetic elements to it, which means that they explain differences between different people. And so undoubtedly, it's going to be a case where some people can eat more than someone else and not actually gain as much weight. The six-pack element to it, probably overstated, the six-pack element would obviously be more of an exercise and thing.

30:06But yes, it is true that people can eat more and maintain the same weight as other people. Okay. And what do I do about that? Because that obviously doesn't feel good when you're like, hey, I'm trying to do the thing. I'm trying to... I think it is not the reason for the obesity epidemic that we're facing. That is down to eating. I think that the energy expenditure and the metabolism, these things play a small role. That we have nothing... There's very little we can actually do about it, right? Because the own... Interestingly, the easiest way to increase your metabolism is to gain weight. And people think it's counterintuitive, right?

30:40But if you take a mini, a small, tiny mini car, it is always going to have a lower fuel consumption than a big SUV. Okay. Ultimately, that's the case. So the easiest way to increase your energy expenditure is to gain weight. But then that's not the aim of the game. And the other thing is when you lose weight, your body also reduces its metabolism. Right. So that is going to be an issue. So the only way is to try and increase your metabolism temporarily. There are no foods that can increase your metabolism. Coffee probably does it briefly, okay? Chilis don't do that, okay, briefly. Exercise is probably the thing that most effectively increases your metabolism, at least temporarily.

31:21So when you're doing it, and then there's a tail off as you stop, so you're continuing burning. That's the first thing. And second is building muscle mass. Because your muscle, your lean mass, is more metabolically active than fat mass. So you could be of the same weight, But if you have more muscle in your body as a ratio, then you will have a higher metabolism. But your underlying metabolism, if you divide your metabolism by the amount of muscle you're carrying, that cannot change. That won't change until you get older. So ultimately, that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to say, well, okay, I've got a lower metabolism than you, for example.

31:55Well, then maybe I need to make sure I gain a bit more muscle to sort of mitigate against that. Got it. so how does someone get rid of that stubborn belly fat see that's an excellent question and you cannot direct where you lose fat it's very very very very very frustrating so you know you go to classes and there's booty busting and there's what have you and you know and you know what the the deal is the only way to get rid of the belly fat is to eat less and probably exercise more as well and people are going whatever i'm coming onto this podcast to hear that it is because it's physics, okay?

32:31It's difficult to do, but it's physics. No, your weight will go on to where genetically it's going to go and will come off from that. You know, what's the size of your boobs? What's the size of your bum? What's the size of your belly? People wish they could direct where they get the weight loss from. I want it from my tummy. You know, for example, when I gain weight, I know I get a bit jowly. Okay, this is where it goes on first. My wife always tells me this. Why? No clue. No clue. And it's also, it does go off first when I begin to lose weight. But so it's very difficult to get rid of the stubborn fat by trying to do sit-ups.

33:04But what you have to do is you do actually have to sort of shift your eating patterns in order to lose belly fat. Let's talk about the genetics piece, because I think that's the hard part. If you're predisposed because of your genetics to being overweight, are you stuck? If you are predisposed genetically to eating more because you are more driven to food for a number of different reasons, then it will always be harder for you to lose weight. Okay. Ultimately, that is true. There's no need to sugarcoat it. But I guess the analogy I'll use is this. I will never, ever be able to run as fast as Usain Bolt.

33:43Okay. Because it's my genes. But it doesn't mean that if I train, I won't run faster than I do now. So I think ultimately that's it, right? None of us here are going to become an Olympic athlete. But if we train, we'll get fitter, we'll get better. And so you've got to sort of deal with the genes you have. You can't blame it. You can blame your parents. That's where the genes have come from. But ultimately, you deal with the hand of cards you have. I wish I looked like Brad Pitt. But there are many, many reasons why that is not going to happen, right? And so you deal with the hand of cards you are dealt.

34:14But even with a more difficult hand of cards, so to speak, a more difficult set of genes when it comes to being overweight. It doesn't mean that you can't do anything about it. What are you seeing in terms of gene limitations? Do you see demographics having certain gene limitations and drawbacks compared to others? Like I know as a South Asian man, generally putting on weight is easy, building muscle is hard. And a lot of South Asian men will have that conversation with each other and say, hey, it's quite easy for us to be lean and skinny, but it's easy to put on weight around our stomach, like you said you put on.

34:49What do you see when you look at the genes and the genetic research? So the genes telling us why people gain weight tend to be quite universal. So they're eating too much genes. Where the different ethnicities come from comes into the consequences of gaining that weight. Yes, there's muscle building. You're right, right? Because Chinese people, ethnically I'm Chinese, we're smaller framed individuals. We too cannot get that much weight, gain that much weight before we actually tilt into disease. So, but the genes underlying why we eat are quite universal, okay? But why we get specific diseases, very, very genetically driven, very ethnically driven.

35:30As you said, South Asian, East Asians, the moment we don't have to go anywhere close to a BMI of 30, and we are suddenly increasing our risk of a number of different metabolic diseases. So we, compared to white people who can always gain a bit more weight, compared to Polynesians. A colleague of mine, actually, I was in New Zealand giving a lecture and I saw there's a big South Asian diaspora in New Zealand. And so I saw a diabetologist, a diabetes doctor who is South Asian, giving a talk in which she was comparing BMI and rates of type 2 diabetes in the local Polynesian population versus the South Asian diaspora.

36:10And the local Polynesian population could get to something like nearly twice the BMI before actually reaching the same risk of type 2 diabetes. It is down to, I guess, how much muscle you can put on, a little bit. It's down to how much fat we all can store safely. And so that is a crucial bit of information. How much fat can you store safely? Can I store safely? The safest place to store fat is in your fat cells, okay? They're like balloons. They go bigger, they go smaller. You don't gain fat cells. Boop, boop, boop, boop. But they get full. And the moment they get full, that's when the fat goes into your liver, your muscles, places that are not designed to store fat in large amounts.

36:51And that's when you become ill. So that, very, very genetic. And it also comes to body shape. Where you put your fat also matters, right? Because then you can look at different populations and realize, oh my God, all these people are completely different shapes. They are. Because where you put your fat also influences how much fat you can store safely. So that bit, very genetic. Yeah, so if you could encourage people to change part of their diet, what should they be focused on? And what are the mistakes that you think people are making right now when it comes to what we eat, what we put into our mouths?

37:24What are the mistakes people are making? And what would you encourage people to think about differently if it isn't calories? Then it's very, very culturally specific. But I think there's probably some universal rules in order to follow. You know, like a lot of South Asians, well, I mean, there are a lot of vegetarians in South Asia, people in the Mediterranean, eat Mediterranean diet, try delivering a Mediterranean diet to Texans. That's just not going to happen. So culturally, it does make a difference. I do think there's some relatively simple quote-unquote rules. I hate to use the word rules.

37:54I think we need to eat enough protein, I think most importantly. So I think about 16 % of the energy in your diet needs to come from protein. It is possible to eat too much because we have to use the protein we eat. If we don't use it, we don't store protein, okay? All the muscles in us, all the protein in our body is active. So if you eat a lot of protein, but don't use it, it gets converted to fat. Okay. And then it begins to stress out your kidneys and stuff as well, right? And your liver. Unless you're lifting or doing something else. So 16 % protein. Okay. We need to eat way more fiber. Way more fiber.

38:30We need to double the amount of fiber we eat. Fiber only comes from fruit and vegetables. So we pretty much need to double the amount of fruit and vegetables that we actually eat. And we probably need to limit the free sugars we eat. Now, free sugars are sugar. Anything that's been detached from fiber. So orange juice is a free sugar. Honey is a free sugar. Maple syrup is a free sugar. We probably need to - All the good stuff. All the good stuff. But the sugar is all the same. It tastes nicer for any number of different reasons, but all the good stuff. You probably need to limit it to 5 % of energy or less.

39:06Now, if you take those three numbers, right? 16 % of protein, 30 grams, double the amount of fiber, and keep your free sugars. You can eat as much fruit and vegetables as you want, but fruit sugars from 5 % and less, you can deploy it to any culture. Because the protein, I'm not only talking steaks, right? I mean, this is what people think here when I say protein steaks. But no, I mean, tofu, beans, vegetables, it doesn't matter the source of the protein. Those are the three numbers I would use. Deploy it to your culture, your type of diet you wish to actually eat, then obviously you can tweak it.

39:38But I think if you actually focus on those three numbers, I think your diet will automatically become healthier. So 16 % protein, 30 % fiber. 30 grams fiber. 30 grams fiber. So double the amount of fiber. On average in the United States and North America, in the United States and in the UK, we're probably only having 15 grams of fiber a day. It's difficult. I think this is part of the problem of focusing on calories is that, what does that mean when I tell you 16 % protein and what have you? So I do these things. I speak to people like you. I speak to industry. I do this to try and push back and say, can we highlight different things on your prepackaged food?

40:18I mean, highlighting the calories, useless, right? Whereas if you highlight how much protein it is, how much fiber is in it, how much free sugar is in a traffic light system or something, I think that's easier for you to actually do. Let's actually talk about that. So we had to go do some shopping. which my wife will be very mad at me for because I've brought things into this house that she would never allow me to have in the house. And so I've got to make sure that I give this out to someone else afterwards. Don't give it to me. She thinks I've been eating it, she'll be mad. But we brought in some products that people are eating because I think partly the issue is when you go out and you buy something, once you're educated, so my wife trained me in this and I want to help pass it on and learn from you as well in how to actually read food labels.

41:00Because I used to just be like, yeah, that's 50 calories. I left it. That's 100 calories. It's easy. So I'm going to throw you some products and, you know, you can tell us whether this is actually healthy or not. And just walk us through all the packaging on the front and the back. So a couple of things about this. So before we start, I think I see where this is going. One of the things that annoys me the most about food and advertising for food is the health halo, right? This is what we're talking about, the health halo. No one thinks That drinking Coca-Cola and eating thingies is healthy for you, but we do it because it's a treat.

41:38We do it. But I'm not thinking I'm having a health strength. And so most of us take the precautions. Now, if no one thinks that when you get a many tortilla chip brands are available, let's look at this one. First of all, it's green in packaging. It has this, I am green, okay, from all the things. Okay, tortilla style protein chips. What the freaking hell is that? Let's see where the protein comes from. Okay, I don't know. Does it tell you where the protein comes from? They added milk protein, isolate whey protein. So they're trying to increase the amount of protein you actually get. And so, hence, they're telling you that this is a healthier option.

42:21But you're still eating a tortilla chip, right? If you look at the... It's still fried, right? It is. Let's have a look at the back here. It should be fried. I mean, sometimes they bake it, I guess, but tortillas tend to be fried. Oh, this one says it's baked. Okay, so that does make a difference. But it is still a, it is still a, but they're trying to sell this as a health food. Okay. And you would say it's not a health food. I don't, I am not anti-totilla chips, but I know why they've done the packaging as they've done here. So people will go and say, oh, these are the terrible tortillas chips.

42:57I'm going to buy this one because these are going to be tortilla chips that are going to be better for me because it's in a green packaging and because it says high protein, high protein for it. So I don't know, you know, it's still a tortilla chip. Yeah. And ultimately, so this is the kind of thing. What is the difference between baked and fried? Because I don't, I speak to a lot of people about this and I don't think they, people even think to think about that. So baked would mean that you use less oil. Okay. And because things like tortilla chips and potato chips and all the kinds of things you get are very porous.

43:31So in other words, they absorb a lot of fat to crisp up. Okay. A fried tortilla will taste better than a baked tortilla. So undoubtedly, they'll have more fat. I'm not saying that this isn't slightly better for you. It's still not a health food though. So that's the difference. The difference is that when you fry something, more of the fat gets absorbed into it. Whereas you bake it, you sort of, you do put oil in it. You have to because otherwise, it's like using an air fryer. Why do you use an air fryer? You use an air fryer because you put in a little bit of oil, it then heats up the oil and then mists the oil.

44:00So that what you're doing is you're frying with less oil. That's why you're getting, you're getting less of the fats that are actually out there. Got it. Okay. I'm going to pull out some more. We had a lot of bags of chips in here, but let me lay this one out. Oh. All right. So this is shredded wheat. Okay, let's have a look at this actually. Now they're always, oh, wait a minute. This is, so if you look at so a couple of things before we go to the back whenever you look at a cereal you see here for example in the front berries all right no one ever does no one ever does it i mean i have shredded i'm not i'm not against this but i eat it do you know what these things are called within the within the field of of sort of food science these are called incidental virtuous foods.

44:49Okay? So someone did an experiment where what they did was they asked a few thousand people, all right, and they put a burger, just a normal standard burger, and they asked everyone to sort of estimate how many calories are in the burger. And, you know, obviously you get people getting it right, people getting it completely wrong. Then they took the burger and they put a stick of celery next to the burger. That stick of celery, same burger, that stick of celery automatically made everyone lower on average their calorie estimates by 10%. Just the presence of it. Now, if you, in fact, we'll go back to that.

45:26We'll go back to the chip. Okay? So here is a tortilla chip and obviously there is lime, there is chili. I appreciate they probably flavored it for summer. Nevertheless. But here, cereal is one of these things. That is why the berries are there. Go into your favorite supermarket. Look, anything you buy. Once again, this is not anti-shredded wheat. Okay? Anything you buy, they'll always have these things because it automatically makes it a virtuous food. Why do people, when you watch an advert or something, why is there a little bit of coriander, a bit of watercress, you know, over the steak? Like, really?

46:05Incidental virtuous foods. Okay, so that's the first thing to note. Yeah, really great note. Now, if you then look in the back, let's look at the sugar. I mean, this may be perfectly healthy. I'm not entirely sure. Okay, so this has no added sugar, which is fine which is good so I do think that that's the one thing you want to look at so that's when we're reading a label when you're reading a label what do you want to focus on now clearly this is shredded wheat I'm not eating this for protein okay so you can look at the back of the protein but the amount of protein on here where does it say polyunsaturated where's the protein I bet you there's oh no there is protein here so 7 grams of 7 grams of protein that's quite high surprisingly high for the amount of stuff that is here what you want to do however on this is not worry too much about the protein because you're eating a shredded wheat is to look at the sugar.

46:50Because, oh my God, I mean, if you actually look at some of the cereals, including some varieties of shredded wheat, you may as well be eating a chocolate bar, as far as I can gather, the amount of sugar that's in there. So this, you would look at it, and broadly speaking, it's probably a relatively healthy thing to eat. Got it. Except for the incidental virtuous food. All right, very good. Well, you spoke about this earlier, so let's take a look at it. we might as well okay OJ now what makes it light? very interesting so let me just yeah what does it say on it? tell us it's an orange juice that tells us 50 % less sugars and calories than OJ then how did they make it?

47:30because OJ is OJ should be OJ you should take juice you squeeze it out maybe you put some heat in it to make sure it lasts longer what have they done to it? to reduce the amount of sugar and calories ah So what they've done here, first of all, is they have concentrated the orange juice. So in other words, they have just, this is in effect orange juice mixed with water. So can I say something? Can I please say something? Save your cash, buy an actual bottle of, if you want to drink orange juice, buy an actual bottle of orange juice and dilute it with water. Same effect, because it says here, the first thing on here is filtered water.

48:05First ingredient list. It's fine, okay? But now you're buying half the amount of orange juice for the same amount of cash, whereas you could buy exactly the same amount of orange juice and use water now what else is there okay now let's have a look no pulp why is this a good thing so here's here's the issue with oj right so oj the full concentrated oj has the same in fact let's we'll read it out just to make sure so total carbohydrates here are 10 okay so so five percent so it has five percent because it's half Coca-Cola has a sugar content about 11%, okay? In a can of Coca-Cola. So OJ actually has the same amount of sugar as Coca-Cola.

48:45This is diluted. We've already established this. And it's the same sugar. It's not because it's natural sugar. It's healthier for you. You've squeezed it out of the orange. So the pulp was the only good thing about this. There's probably vitamin C and stuff, but the pulp was the only good thing because that was the fiber. So what this has said is that we have made extra sure there is no fiber in this orange juice. That's what this is telling you. I have no problems with OJ as a small thing. But people think it's a health food. And people will then drink a ton of this. And you have to treat it like you're drinking a high sugar drink.

49:20Eat the orange. Because when you eat the orange, you're chewing it. There's fiber. Your body takes longer to release the sugar. Exactly the same amount of sugar. Because orange juice actually comes from there. You get a lot more goodness out of eating the orange. If you have to drink orange juice, drink, you know, do it in moderation. This is a waste of money because, as it says in the back, it's diluted orange juice. For Pete's sake. It's a good analysis. This is useful. This is useful. All right. All right. This is fun. All right. Yeah. This is fun. I'm enjoying it. Let's do this one. Because this.

50:03These are great. where did you get these from this answer these are all from i won't say now no just can i please say dried apricots these are wonderful for you okay because obviously uh they're full of fiber and yeah you might say well and they're high in sugar yeah but then they're all tied up in the fiber there and how much a risk are you really going to eat anyway wonderful for you okay you shouldn't need to enhance it with any probiotic apricots now what have they made it so me so So probiotic means, that's prebiotic and that's probiotic. And prebiotic is adding fiber. Probiotic is taking the bugs.

50:40Because this is what confused me when I was looking at this. So this is probiotic because they've taken normal apricots, which is full of fiber, and added bacteria. Now, this sounds a bit dodgy because they're telling me that the bugs cannot be alive. I don't think. Because they're in this thing. What is the shelf life of this? Okay, March, 2026. It's sterile, right, in here. so they say they've put the bugs in but the bugs cannot be alive so it is not going to be probiotic if the bugs are dead and they have to be dead because this thing is not going to rot in a sealed container and it's good till march 2026 so this the bugs have got to be alive when you're eating yogurt yogurt if you're eating you know kombucha the bugs are alive that is why they work because they pass you need you need those actually to to survive the gut and go in in order to survive these are dead bugs they won't work interesting wow wow i love how shocked you are right now all right let's do this as the last one because okay we've done all the other versions of this but okay let's let me just let me see let me see what the back is preserving so 65 grams Holy cow.

51:54All right. So this is a bar. Now, I know what this is. This is for the gym bros, right? But if you actually look at the, first of all, it tells you the amount of protein. So they're selling this as a health food bar by its very definition because we're not dealing with it. But if you actually look at the back, yes, there's more protein in it, okay, for that. But it's 22 % sugar. It's 22 % sugar, okay? 14 % fat, of which 13 % is saturated fat. Okay, and the protein amount is 13 % protein. So actually, I'm saying we need 16%. It's already below the actual what you should be eating in your total diet anyway.

52:33I don't understand this bar. I do understand it if you are taking it as a recovery bar. Fair, okay? If you've just done a workout or if you're maybe a cycling, you're trying to do that. I can dig that. The problem is if it's there in a supermarket shelf and you're coming in thinking, this is going to be healthy for me, but you're not working out. you're not doing and you buy and eat it this is far worse for you than eating a chocolate bar unless you're exercising at the same time yeah I mean the sugar in that's high 22 it's really high it's high oh my god is this even edible I mean I used to so I used to eat those nearly every day until I looked at the back no no no until I looked at the back then you went dude yeah and I realised even when I am working out I don't need that no you don't need 22 % sugar I mean yeah you want more protein probably actually than that I've shifted to one that does only one gram of sugar now because you do need some sugar you need some carbs obviously you do Yeah, but not that.

53:23Yeah, not that. Good analysis. So walk us through two questions I have. Yes. One is, how can people read food labels better? Okay. What were you doing that was making it effective for you to figure it out that quickly? Because the challenge is we have little time. We look at the back, there's like 50 ingredients. Okay, the major problem I have with this is this isn't a lack of information problem because all the information is there. But you need bright lights. I need to have my reading glasses with me. But what you would do, I think ultimately, in order to better do it, the industry needs to change what they label.

53:55But I don't have the power to do that. So I think what I would do is I would focus on, first of all, the amount of, depending on what you're eating, the amount of protein, the amount of fiber. Do they put fiber? They do put fiber. The amount of fiber that's actually in there and the amount of sugars. Protein, fiber, sugar. Protein, fiber, sugar. Those are three things to look at. Yes. And what you don't want is to see an equal balance of all three. You want to try and see the percentages you said earlier. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I would do. Yeah. And of course it won't be, you're not expecting to get all your protein from a bar anyway.

54:25No. So I think what you want to do as well is not concern. Okay. Not obsess about one item of food. What you should do is be thinking about your diet over a week. A week's a good period because there are work days, there are weekend days. You may have a birthday, you go to the restaurant for your friends and you're eating on the run or what have you. So over a week, how much protein, fiber and things have you been eating? That's better because then that allows you to go to the pub, the restaurants, your child's birthday. And then they say, well, I had my child's birthday party last night, so I'm going to do something else.

54:55So you need to consider that, but over the context of a full week, rather than obsessing over one individual bar would be what I would say. And what are the three hidden ingredients that you think people should watch out for on food labels? I think sugar is probably the biggest thing to look for because they, my wife sent me to the supermarket to buy. She goes, can you get me some beetroot? I want to make a salad. Okay. And so I went into a supermarket chain in the UK and I bought their finest, because I'm a mug. Okay. I bought their finest item and I brought it back and she yelled at me. She goes, did you see the amount of sugar on here?

55:30Why didn't you get the one made with vinegar? Why did you get the one? And so sugar is the thing that they shuffle in the most because it's so, it improves the flavor so quickly and they put it into beetroot. It's a beetroot. Why do you have to boil it in sugar. It's completely ridiculous. Sugar is probably the easiest thing to shovel in, so to watch that. How addictive is sugar? I don't think sugar is addictive. I don't think there is such a thing as food addiction. If you speak to addiction biologists, they do hijack certain pathways. Which ones? So the part of the brain that makes things feel nice, you're rewarding part of the brain, it's the same part of the brain for everything.

56:06It doesn't matter if we're talking about food, sex, or drugs, or alcohol. It hits the same place. The roots to it are different, but it's the same, it's the same part of the brain. And so I think that clearly sugar tickles the nice part of the brain, because why would it not? But it is not crack cocaine. People say it's worse for you than crack, but it isn't, okay? Because you clearly get used to it, you like it, there are addictive behaviors, but sugar in of itself is not addictive. If I took sugar away from you, you're not going to go into cold turkey, okay? You're not. You might think, oh, I want to eat that and what have you.

56:40You're not. So it's not addictive, but we need to eat less of it. And clearly there is an addictive behavior of getting used to eating sugars as well. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

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57:42We break down the truth, the lies, and the poetry in between on Hoax, a new podcast hosted by me, Lizzie Logan. And me, Dana Schwartz. Every episode, Hoax explores an audacious fraud or ruse from history, from forged artworks to the original fake news, to try and answer why we believe. Listen to Hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just think the process and the journey is so delicious. That's where all the good stuff is. You just can't live and die by the end result. It's scary putting yourself out there, especially when it's something you really care about and something that you hope is your passion in life and you want people to like it.

58:22Let's get delicious and put ourselves out there. I'm Simone Boyce, host of The Bright Side, and those were my recent guests, comedian Phoebe Robinson and writer Erin Foster. On this show, I'm talking to the brightest minds in entertainment, health, wellness, and pop culture. And every week we're going places in our communities, our careers, and ourselves. It's not about being perfect. It's about going on a journey and discovering the bright side of becoming. Few people know that better than soccer legend Ashlyn Harris. It's the journey, it's the people, it's the failures, it's the heartache, it's the little moments.

58:57These are our moments to laugh, learn, and exhale. So join me every Monday and let's find the bright side together. Listen to The Bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And back to our episode. Is healthier food more expensive to produce? No. Or what is the reason that healthy food has become expensive? So I think there's a marketing element to it. So therefore healthy food, they can make money from it. But then what then happens is there are cultural differences as well, right? Because then what happens is people say lentils are cheap, which is true.

59:31But that's a culturally specific thing. If you go to India, you go to South, everyone knows how to cook lentils. So lentils are cheap because everyone can do it. But other things are not. Here, okay, here or in the UK for that matter. First of all, do people know how to cook lentils who are not South Asian, for example? That's the first thing. The second is it will always require half an hour on the electricity or gas. And it's always cheaper to stick a pre-meal into the microwave and put two minutes in order to do it. So you have to take the whole life cycle of the food and also the amount of time and effort and education you actually have about that specific food.

1:00:07So it's a holistic view of how expensive something is. Yeah, it could be expensive in terms of time as well. Exactly. Some people don't have the time. And culturally, it does make a difference because like lentils are cheap, obviously. And you go to some countries. Beans. Exactly. Those are. But if you buy them from scratch, you need to know how to soak them overnight. You need to then boil them for a period of time. And if this is part of your culture and you always have beans pre-ready to cook and everything is ready, perfect. And you have the spice mix ready, perfect. But for a lot of us, that's not the case.

1:00:37Great answers. That was fun. I'm glad we did that. That was really cool. I wanted to ask about this idea of, you say that weight is biology, not laziness. Let's talk about that. Okay. I think weight is more biology than people think. How about that? Okay. So if we actually look at the genetics, heritability, Okay, so what percentage does genetics actually play into body weight? And we can use that by looking at twins, identical twins and non-identical twins. Then actually the heritability of fat mass, of weight, is around 40 to 70%. So in other words, let's take the average, 50-50. So 50 % is going to be driven by biology and 50 % by non-biology.

1:01:17And in that non-biology, it could be socioeconomic status, how rich or poor you are. It could be your culture. It could be any number of different things. So weight is probably about 50%. Now within that 50%, it does play a pretty powerful role. And I guess the one example I'll give is this. We do not gain or lose weight overnight. We just don't. Any meal, no matter how big, is not going to perceptibly change your body weight. Your body weight is the function of thousands of feeding the events that have happened over the past couple of years. Now imagine, however, if because of your genetic hand of cards that you've been given, you are slightly less likely to say no.

1:01:535%, best kind of scale we're looking at. So one out of every 20 times you say, hang it, I'm going to have the extra slice of pizza or what have you. 5 % over thousands of feeding events is hundreds of thousands of calories. So over the period of time that food intake does begin to influence your body weight, it is not a choice. In casino terms, the house will always win if the dye is weighted a certain way. In that sense, there is a lot of biology, but clearly, if you take the top 20 % socioeconomically versus the bottom 20%. The bottom 20 % are more than twice as likely to have obesity and most diseases, to be fair, as the top 20%.

1:02:31There's no genetic difference between rich and poor people. It's an accident of birth. And so there, your environment really, really, really does matter. So even with the same genes, your same genetic burden and drive, if I live in a leafy Cambridge village, which I live so far out that Deliveroo won't deliver to my village. And so this is a true story, okay? Then if I'm hungry and I don't have a corner shop, I have to drive to the next village. If I'm hungry on a Sunday night, well, either I have to get in my car and drive somewhere or I have to open my fridge and eat the carrots or hummus in my fridge, right?

1:03:08Whereas if I lived in a city, if I live above a chicken shop, if I live above, then exactly the same genetic drive will make me go and I'll make different decisions, different things that we made. So there's a huge genetic drive, undoubtedly, but the environment also matters. How much is willpower involved? What is willpower? What is it? I think willpower is an interesting term. I think that if we're talking about food intake, which means to say that, oh, I'm not going to eat the chocolate bar or pizza or something today. I think willpower is simply the physiological manifestation of how much you want that item of food and whether or not you say yes or no.

1:03:43So willpower is simply part of the biology that drives you or stops you from eating it. So that's what I think is willpower. So if that plays a role, yes, willpower plays a role because it's part of your biology. It's almost like a sense of, I like the word discipline more. So as someone who grew up eating, and I've spoken about this on the show before, I literally grew up eating every day a chocolate bar, a chocolate biscuit, a chocolate yogurt, and a chocolate ice cream every day. Because that's how I was raised in my house. And I was overweight growing up. And then in my teens, I started playing a lot of sports.

1:04:15I lost lots of weight. But then still, even when I was at university, I drank a sugary soda every single day and had a chocolate bar every day. And because of my genetics or my metabolism, I was lean throughout college and all the rest of it. But I wasn't doing anything healthy. and what I found was that I had to create discipline at one point in my life because my natural instinct is to want sugar to solve my fatigue or energy or whatever it may be because that's what I've been taught or at least trained to believe is that sugar will solve my lack of energy right now not realizing that actually I could get that from a healthier place.

1:04:55I mean, I guess discipline is one way. I mean, I don't like the term lifestyle. A lot of people call this as a lifestyle problem because lifestyle means choice. But I do think that many of us need to make behavioral changes. So that's the terminology I'd like to use because ultimately this is the issue. It doesn't matter whether or not the genetic drives makes it easier or less easy for you to lose weight. It doesn't matter. Ultimately, because if you carry too much fat, you're the one that's going to suffer, right? So I think life's unfair, okay? And sometimes biologically unfair and what have you.

1:05:26So I think what we've got to do is for a lot of us, we do need to think about behavioral changes. And you're absolutely right. We need to be more educated about certain things. We need to, just this conversation we've had, right? I mean, just looking at these things. And if you then begin to notice, so even just what I've said, if you notice a couple of these little things and you incrementally make a better, you buy a better bar, you buy a better bag of chips or anything like that, well, then that's a positive thing. These are behavioral changes, but we need to sort of get the word out there, right?

1:05:58Where it's not always, they're obvious things, but the not obvious things also matter. I think for me, one of the behavioral changes that has helped so much is out of sight, out of mind. What you just said, like when you walk in and look at your refrigerator and there's only carrots and hummus. Like I said, like I bought this bag in today for this episode, but we wouldn't have this available. So do I want those chips? Of course I want tortilla chips. I would rather eat tortilla chips than any whole foods because that's what I'm conditioned to want. but when they're not available in our snack drawer, you know, then I have to think, oh, I've got to wait 20 minutes.

1:06:32So now that is very true, right? So I think we have to control the environment we have control over, which broadly speaking is our household. And so same for me, my wife bans me from buying. So she loves chocolate. And she, I mean, me, chocolate, I like chocolate, but if there was a chocolate bar there, for example, I would eat a piece and then I would continue talking to you. Yeah, I can do that. I'll eat the whole thing. So my wife says, please don't buy chocolate in the house. So if we go to a restaurant, we go to a meal, that's different, right? Because we're outside, but within our house, like you said, there are no, and I love crisps, so I don't buy crisps in the house because I know that if it's there and I hear the rustling, I'll eat it.

1:07:06Out of sight, out of mind, it's a good way of handling it. Yeah, that's been one big thing for me. And the other one that's really helped me is having a plan for when that craving comes. Strategy, strategize. Yeah, strategy, right? Like rather than feeling like, oh, you know, I'm in a good discipline mode. I'm not going to have the craving today. It's like, no, I know that at 8 p.m. at night, I'm going to get a craving. And so let me have a plan B option available that is healthier, better, more natural than putting myself into grabbing one of the ultra processed foods. So whenever I talk to people and someone come up to me and whatever their genetic drive, they says, oh, you know, I need to lose weight.

1:07:44How would you do it? I said, look, if you know you need to lose weight for whatever reason, then what you've got to do, the easiest thing to do, okay, don't go take a genetic test, anything like that. It's free, okay, is be honest with why you eat when you eat. And some people eat when they get stressed. Other people don't. Some people have a craving for chocolate at 8 o 'clock. Understand this. And the moment you understand that, put a strategy in place to kind of mitigate against that. And that is your way into dealing with your biology. Don't worry about the fact that Well when I go to my friend's house Anything like that That's fine Because you live in your house So fix your house first Then everything else You can kind of You can kind of take it day by day Fix what you have in your house Absolutely Those two things have helped me Out of sight Out of mind And making sure that I have a plan For the things I know are going to happen Not hoping that they don't happen Yeah exactly Don't lie to yourself Do not lie to yourself Yeah exactly Because yeah it's I've lied to myself too many times and then ended up overeating or over sugaring or whatever it may be because I didn't have a plan.

1:08:48And so I fell to my devices. I was intrigued to something you write about is why is it so difficult to lose weight? Because your brain hates it when you lose weight. So it thinks I'm losing weight. This is lowering my chances of survival in a world where there's not enough food. This is not true now. But in a caveman brain that is actually dealing with is thinking I'm losing weight. I need to put the weight back on. And so your brain does everything in its power. It does two things. It makes you hungrier. As you know, when anyone who's dieted, you feel hungry. And more insidiously, because there's, you don't know, it lowers your metabolism, okay?

1:09:24So imagine if I were, I'm an 80 kilo human being, okay? Imagine if I used to be 90 kilograms and I've lost, so I've lost 10 % of my body weight, okay? The previously, me who lost 10 % of the weight versus me never been 90 kilos. he has to eat less than me to maintain the same weight as me. Okay. 80 and 80, but he used to be because he's lost that weight and the brain is trying to drag him back, kicking and screaming back up to the weight he was before. Your brain hates it when you lose weight and it puts into homeostatic measures to make sure you gain the weight back then. It's very depressing.

1:09:58I know it's very depressing, but it's, yeah, you're fighting biology. Yeah. And as we get older, we're putting on more weight naturally. You do for a couple of different reasons. I think I would have given you a different answer five years ago. But new work has shown that actually you don't begin to drop your metabolism per gram of muscle in you. All right, just to be clear. So in other words, how much muscle you're carrying really to your mid-60s. So people thought it happened earlier. It doesn't. Okay. The problem is when you get into middle age. Okay. Is this. First of all, we tend to get richer.

1:10:32Not rich, but richer. We're set on our backsides. We have more money. We have more money. We don't, we eat richer food. We're not going to eat less, right? We're moving less. We tend to exercise less. I'm sorry, that's true. Which means that your muscle mass begins to lower. So a mix of all that, you have more money, you eat better food, you exercise less, okay? And that is the toxic mix that then ends up with you gaining weight, middle-aged bread, et cetera, et cetera. How do we stop that? I think the most important thing, if we're dealing with actually zeroing in, clearly we can say we need to improve our diets and things.

1:11:05This is all true. The most important thing about health span rather than longevity, right? Who the hell wants to live forever, you know, with tubes in? You just don't, okay? But people want to live healthy for longer. The marker that most predicts your health span is the amount, your percent, your ratio to muscle to fat heading into your late 60s and into your 70s, okay? It doesn't matter very many, clearly how heavy you are matters, okay? But more importantly, how much muscle are you taking into that period of time? The more muscle lean mass you actually have going in particular into your 70s, the healthier you're likely to be.

1:11:43So do not neglect, do not neglect moving and keeping your muscles in shape, particularly as you get older. And that is the way to fight all the bad things that can happen. Yeah. What's really interesting is that as a society, I feel like we've been struggling with weight loss for so long. And that's why we've obviously seen the rise of weight loss drugs and especially more recently with Ozympic. And it's become commonplace now, it seems at least. I don't know in the UK, but definitely in the States. And people are open about their usage. There's a debate over whether it's good or bad. And people have different views on it for different reasons.

1:12:20But there has been this almost pressure that we've placed on people, not always from a health point, but from a vanity point to lose weight. Yes. whereas what we're talking about today is a healthy, yeah. We're talking about health. And I think, look, there is nothing wrong with these drugs as long as the right people get them. I think ultimately that's true. Now, if you have a lot of fat, you have severe obesity, then the drug is for you because you're ill. You are getting diabetes. The drug is for you. The drugs are not a cosmetic drug. So these drugs are modified gut hormones. They're modified versions of natural hormones that we actually have.

1:12:57So in one way of looking at things, we could say that, well, I've only tweaked one hormone in your body and suddenly you eat less. Then you can argue that a lot of people with obesity probably just have a hormonal deficiency that you're trying to fix. However, the reason these drugs are good is because they're powerful and they work. The reason these drugs are bad is because they're powerful and they work for everybody. They make you feel fuller. Whether or not you're 300 pounds looking to lose 100, or whether or not you are a 16-year-old girl who's 75 pounds, that is the problem. It'll still make you eat less.

1:13:27So they're not cosmetic drugs. They're powerful drugs. They should be used as drugs, not at the red carpet tour. So you're saying that there are a group of people who it's healthier for them to use it. And there's a group of people that shouldn't be using it. Correct. Because I think everyone who needs the drug should get the drug. And these are people who, in fact, there's more nuance about this. At the moment, certainly in the UK, there are rules about what your BMI, what your weight should be before you're allowed the drug. And it's above a certain amount, et cetera, et cetera. We've already discussed, for example, that South Asians and East Asians, we can't get that much weight before we get risk of disease.

1:14:06So we need to be more nuanced about who gets the drug. And the person, the people that get the drug need to be closing in on their disease state, okay? They should get the drug, okay? So in other words, you could be a little bit heavier, but actually be perfectly healthy, do you need the drug, right? Whereas maybe a South Asian man who's BMI 27 but actually is already close to being type 2 diabetic, maybe he should get it. So I think at the moment, people draw a line in the sand about your BMI. I think we need to be more, in fact, just talking about obesity in general, we need to be more nuanced.

1:14:41Yeah, it's really hard because people will say, well, I feel more confident now that I've taken it and I feel better about myself now that I've taken it. I mean, okay, as a game, if we game it in our head, do I see if these drugs were shown to be fully, fully, fully, fully safe over a long period of time? And broadly speaking, we know the right people will get it. Can I or do I think that if I can walk into a drugstore, because at the moment, for example, we go in and buy Tylenol, okay? We give it to our kids, right? Now, we also know that if I had a whole bottle of Tylenol, I may endanger my liver, okay?

1:15:17So there, right? It can be toxic as well. But now society has accepted that this is something that we can choose to self-medicate with without a prescription. If we can get to that level of safeness for these weight loss drugs, why not, I guess? Please, I am not saying we will get there. And I'm not saying it's possible to get there for the reasons which I've told you. But I think as a principle, I don't mind doing that as long as it's safe and only the right people get it. Those are the two critical things. What are the dangers of weight loss drugs like Ozempic? Like what are the actual ramifications?

1:15:51The ramifications are the wrong people get. I mean, very rarely, I think there are certain things that could happen extremely, extremely rarely. The biggest danger is the people who are taking it for cosmetic reasons and don't have a lot of fat to lose and take too much of it. And then what then happens is they then lose too much weight. And what are they damaging? What are the consequences? Because what these drugs do, because they make you feel fuller, the drugs itself don't do a great, you know, they have positive effects to the drugs. They just make you eat less. So if you are already skinny and take it, you are in effect starving yourself.

1:16:25That's the one thing. Starvation is not a good thing. Okay, for that. Now, equally, if you take the drug and don't improve your diet, because these drugs also don't improve your diet. They just make you feel full. So if your diet was crap to begin with, and you're eating chips and Oreos all the time, what these drugs will do is to make you eat less chips and Oreos. And so actually what happens is you could end up malnourished. So even, yes, you're losing weight because you're now eating calorie-wise less food. So I'm losing weight. Look at me, I'm good. But then if that's all you're eating, you're not doing your fiber, your protein, and all that jazz, right?

1:16:58And micronutrients, then you're going to be skinny and malnourished at the same time on the drug. So the drug is a silver bullet for the feeling full of it. It doesn't improve your behavior. It doesn't improve your diet. It doesn't stop people from not taking it who shouldn't be taking it. So I'm pro-drug for the people who need it. Got it. Relief it, really. I appreciate that. I wanted to ask you this question because I think you've alluded to it, but if you could put a warning label on one part of the diet industry, what would it be? Can I have two things? Yeah, of course you can. So I think that we've already alluded to it, I think two things.

1:17:33The first, which is most important, is don't obsess over one item of food. Because look, sometimes life demands a chocolate bar. Sometimes life demands a banana. It depends what you're doing, okay? Can you make a healthier chocolate bar? And actually over a period of time, we don't eat chocolate. We shouldn't eat chocolate bars every day. So that's the first thing. We shouldn't. We shouldn't eat chocolate bars every, well, we shouldn't. Why don't you? It's like saying, we shouldn't eat burgers every day as well. It's very normal, though, that people do that, right? That's common. But we shouldn't.

1:18:02It is common, though, right? It is. I think it probably is quite common. Yeah, it is common. I assume so. I mean, you're right. I mean, the grocery stores are full of them. Yeah, exactly. So I think what you've got to do is - I did up until I was 21 every day. So that's what you've got to do. What you've got to do is there's nothing wrong with a chocolate bar. You've got to think about your whole diet with those numbers. So the second are those numbers that I was actually telling you about, that the numbers that just focusing on the calories. I really wish that they make it in small numbers. I think maybe the genie is out of the bottle and we can't get those calories.

1:18:35I think obsessing over the calories is the wrong thing to obsess about because it doesn't improve the quality of our diet. To me, the big thing that I think I really want people to take away is this idea of look at the protein, look at the fiber and look at the sugars. Yes. Because that solves it, right? Like I'm thinking of right now, if someone's feeling overwhelmed right now, they're listening to watching. They're just thinking right now, like, Giles, I want to do this, but I don't even know how to have time to do it. Where would you suggest they start? Is that where you'd suggest they start?

1:19:05Yes. Yes, me too. I think that's a really clear way of looking at it. Think about your diet as protein intake, fiber intake, and sugar intake in the percentages that Giles broke down. 16 % of protein, 30 grams of fiber, and 5 % sugar or less. and all of a sudden, now you're hopefully going to feel healthier, have more energy and naturally eat less. Yes. Or eat less. Eat less crap. Yeah. You're going to eat better. And you might say that, well, wait a minute, they don't label fruits and vegetables and they don't label meat because they don't need to. Ultimately, if you get, if you're actually eating a piece of meat and some fruit and vegetables in which there's no labeling and it's just, how do I know?

1:19:49How do I know? If you're eating that, you don't need to know. That is the point. Because if you're cooking a steak and you're having broccoli and you're doing the things and you're peeling the potato and boiling it, and you're then concerned about, well, I don't know how much sugar they put in it. Well, it's because you have to add sugar if you want to do it. And you want to do, so the moment you're cooking from scratch, not everybody can cook from scratch, which is what, right? So, but if you are eating foods with no labels, then they tend to be fresh stuff. That's a great point. Right? That the foods that don't have labels.

1:20:19Correct. Is because they don't need them. Correct. I've never even thought about it like that. It sounds so simple, but that's a really good point. And if you're eating that way, then generally you're going to be healthier, safer, more secure. Yes, there's still danger of eating too much and what have you, of course. But as a general rule, if we're looking at a general rule, I think that's going to be... Amazing. Charles, it's been so great talking to you today. We end every On Purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So, Charles, yo.

1:20:48Yo. You look prepared. Here's your final five The first question is What is the best health advice You've ever heard Received or given? Do you know what? Move more That's a great one Question number two What is the worst health advice You've ever heard or received? Count calories Question number three Something you used to believe Was true about health But now you know it's not true I used to think that The moment you hit your 40s or 50s Your metabolism dropped And that's not true It's only because your muscle mass dropped So I think this metabolism thing, your metabolism stays stable through your life.

1:21:23That was a very long answer. I'm so sorry. But I used to think that five years ago, and now I don't think that anymore. What's the most recent study or research that you've read about the work that you do that blew your mind or fascinated you? Or something that made you really curious and interested? When I first learned that this lowering of metabolism when you lose weight is pretty much permanent, right? And so in other words, this is why it's so difficult for you to lose weight. This is probably 10 years old, so it's not new. It's part of the reason why your brain hates it when you lose weight, or why it's so difficult to actually lose weight.

1:21:57So once again, I'm 80 kilos. And I'm not. I've always been. But imagine if exactly the same year, my twin, got to 90 kilos and then came back down to 80 kilos. Then from a physics perspective, you think, well, this is an 80-kilo gentleman. I'm an 80-kilo gentleman. We should be able to eat exactly the same thing. We can't. he will always have to eat less than me to maintain the same body weight because he has a brain that used to be 90 kilos and is dragging him back up. And I remember seeing the very, very first time seeing those studies, I was going, this is depressing. But then you think, well, how do we mitigate against these things and how do you do it?

1:22:35I mean, the drugs do a job for that, for example. People who exercise. So exercise is terrible for weight loss because we don't exercise enough, but very good for weight maintenance for that very reason, right? Where when you exercise, your expenditure goes up and it mitigates against this loss of metabolism. So this is not brand new study, but I found it very interesting. Is there a way to trick your brain? There is a way to trick your brain in a bad way. So in other words, if you gain weight and stay there for a long enough time, your brain begins to defend that higher weight. Whereas if you lose weight, your brain, from what we know so far, never defends that lower weight because evolutionarily, there is no reason to do that, right?

1:23:13Because this is less likely of survival. So your brain can train in the other direction, vicious cycle, not in losing weight. And fifth and final question, we asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I think that healthy food should always be the cheaper option wherever you go. At the moment, that's not true. It's very uneven. At the moment, unhealthy food is cheaper. And so if we want to cure diseases and obesity equitably across the world, regardless of how rich or poor you are, then by default, the food that you eat must be healthy.

1:23:53Giles, thank you so much for your time and energy. So grateful to connect with you today and learn so many things from you. You blew my mind multiple times and everyone who's been listening or watching, go and grab the book, Why Calories Don't Count, How We Got the Science of Weight Loss Wrong. Follow Giles across his podcast and social media if you don't already. and make sure you tag us on TikTok and Instagram and let us know what you're connecting with, what you're experimenting with and what you're trying. I love to see how you're putting all of this insight into action. Thank you so much again, Gael.

1:24:26Such a pleasure. Grateful to meet you. Thanks for having me. If this year you're trying to live longer, live happier, live healthier, go and check out my conversation with the world's biggest longevity doctor, Peter Atia, on how to slow down aging and why your emotional health is directly impacting your physical health. Acknowledge that there is surprisingly little known about the relationship between nutrition and health. And people are going to be shocked to hear that because I think most people think the exact opposite. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut.

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1:25:33The best relationships are people who really work on them together. Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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