HILARY DUFF: The Human Behind the Headlines (Her Most Honest Chapter Yet)

18:18Hilary Duff:And he is - you can say that here you're like you had to write the first yeah so yeah we don't need to sorry um i had to i'm sorry he i see his confidence built when i you know so i i think it was just that like mine happened to be acting but those things were confidence builders at times they were confident strippers i had a lovely support system and i also got to be a kid like i that wasn't all taken away I had like normal friends and I felt the highs and lows of friendship and being confident not confident and dating and all of that stuff I don't know I think some some of it you're born with and some of it is like what is what you're surrounded by and what you what's

19:04Jay Shetty:modeled for you yeah we were talking about this a bit earlier off camera but I was saying that like I feel like a lot of confidence I get when I was a kid came from the fact that I always knew my mom would catch me if I was to fall. So it didn't come from feeling like I would never fall because I had challenges and got bullied or different things would happen anyway, right? As it does in any kid's life. But I always knew my mom would catch me. And that was like such, and even as a grown man today, I'm like, I don't know if I called my mom, she would still catch me today, like after all those years.

19:33Jay Shetty:And it does build such a sense of confidence. And then I think the other side of what you're saying, which I appreciate, which I think we're finally realizing is that confidence does come from competence. It comes from doing hard things and putting yourself out there and taking action. And for you as acting, for your son, it's playing soccer. And those steps and seeing yourself go out there and play a game, there's confidence that comes from building a skill or building competence that doesn't come from just sitting there and thinking about it or hoping that you naturally feel that way because people may not be born that way.

20:05Jay Shetty:And so both of those ideas resonate.

20:07Hilary Duff:Matt and I talk about this with the kids all the time And it could be as simple as like them going and making their own water instead of just being like, I'm thirsty. And we're like, oh, let me do it for you. You know, like sometimes we do, of course, we like our kids to we like to take care of our kids. But, you know, we have the conversation a lot. That's like the more they they do, the more they can do. And the more you can do, the better you feel about yourself, you know. So just being, trying to hold them accountable to be competent for their level is something that I feel like helps form your confidence.

20:44Jay Shetty:Yes.

20:44Hilary Duff:And like will make us feel okay about sending them off into the world at some point.

20:49Jay Shetty:I remember, I'm not recommending this and I'm not condoning this at all. I just remember I had friends who were parents and they had this particular methodology that they were training their kids with. but we were sitting on one side of a table and hanging out and their child was like playing with a candle on the other side and and my natural instinct i don't have kids my natural instinct was to go take the kid away from the candle because obviously there's fire and the natural instinct and they were like no no no just leave it like they're just playing and figuring it out

21:15Hilary Duff:and i was like wow like that's really bold you're like hope she's wearing a ponytail yeah exactly i

21:20Jay Shetty:was like wow like you know and uh her hair was very short that she didn't she hadn't grown her hair out but she was like two years old or something yeah or maybe three and i was just like yeah it's not again not recommending not condoning not not saying that's a good thing i'm just saying that there is something to be said for being competent at your age and your level of experience and providing that to your children it feels like you're what you've been saying about your relationship right now you've said it a few times like it's built such a foundation for you to go through so much what is it that creates a foundation of strength and peace in a relationship for you from your experience?

21:56Hilary Duff:I could talk about this for hours. That's a good thing, right? I think it is time and just getting to the place where you can be in the trenches with someone and they can know everything and accept everything and help you move through things in the best way. I mean, for me, I think Matt and I, I always loved hanging out with him. I love, he made me laugh like crazy. Like he was such a, he just kept showing up for me over and over again. And, um, I think coming out of, you know, being divorced and being a young mom and having a lot of stuff happen in my family life. I think I was just like not ready for super health yet.

22:48Hilary Duff:And someone who was like totally nice to me and wanted to like have like a healthy relationship and just like keep showing up, I guess. And so it took us a little while to, well, it took me a little while to just like, I think accept something good. and it wasn't until we had Banks which is our seven-year-old that I feel like I really like could settle in to the relationship when I realized like the kind of parents we were and how we were doing as parents together I really remember like just feeling like my shoulders could be like and it was really like really a nice weight off um and then like our relationship from there continued to just be like emotional shelter, you know, instead of dramatic, like craving those younger dramatic highs and lows and just feeling better in the like steady, which also comes with challenges.

23:45Hilary Duff:And I talk about those challenges a lot on luck or something. It's nice to be where we are right now and know that some of those highs and lows feel like a snapshot of a time frame instead of a continual struggle.

24:00Jay Shetty:I love what you said about that feeling that I think we all go through when you find your person. I've been with my wife for 13 years now. I'm married for 10.

24:08Hilary Duff:Congrats.

24:08Jay Shetty:Thank you. And yeah, it's our 10th wedding anniversary this year. And so it's really exciting to celebrate. But like, when I think about it that way, it's like, I love what you said about this point that when you first meet someone who actually loves you and is kind to you.

24:23Hilary Duff:It's really hard to accept.

24:24Jay Shetty:It's really hard to accept, both based on how others have treated us and how we've treated ourselves. I feel like it's a mix of both of those experiences. I agree with that. Right? It's almost like you're wrestling with it. I don't know, it's how I felt before in the past. Is that how you describe it? How would you describe it?

24:38Hilary Duff:Yeah, and you want to like poke holes in it to make sure it's like steady enough. You know? Yeah. That's what I felt like I was doing. I think it added an extra pressure that I had a child already. and like I didn't want to expose him to something that wasn't like for sure going to stick and work out for me yeah I mean I'm just feel so settled in a good way like so happy that I I'm like god your intuition works and it's good because it is really it is to commit your life to someone is a very big choice yeah it's only after you do it and you

25:17Jay Shetty:spend a few years together you realize how big it is right like i was like when i made that commitment i actually don't think i had a clue what that commitment meant right and then years later you're like oh okay now i'm actually living that commitment yes when i made it that day on my wedding day it was kind of just like it was it felt natural it felt real but yeah i almost hadn't really experienced what it meant to say that if that makes any sense how old were you when you got married we were i was 28 and my wife was 25 and so so pretty young yeah yeah yeah i pretty i wonder if it's like that by design yeah what do you mean like because marriage is like so

25:53Hilary Duff:hard and it's such a big choice that i wonder if you do it like at a slightly younger stage of your life or else you wouldn't do it because it's such like a crazy that's a good point it's such a crazy thing to to commit it is it is yeah me and my wife have talked about that before i feel like

26:08Jay Shetty:it was older compared to people we knew back in london yeah we got married late oh you did compared to a lot of our friends you got married very early then you guys moved to la and you're like oh no

26:16Hilary Duff:one's married here. Yeah, exactly.

26:17Jay Shetty:Then we moved in, we're like, oh wait, there's no rules. This is great. Like, you know, we've got friends like marrying at 40, having kids at 40, like no one cares. And it was nice. It was refreshing actually from coming from a culture where people were getting married at 22, 23, 24, 25 and being able to have that, have that space. And, uh, but we've talked about that many times where we're like, oh my gosh, we've grown so much. And my wife, especially, she feels like she's been so many different versions of herself in the last 13

26:42Hilary Duff:years that it's amazing and speaks volumes of your relationship that she could be so many versions of herself in a marriage do you know what i mean like take on you said lots of different versions of herself it's very hard to like grow i think yeah a lot of the growth that i did outside of motherhood happened before i was in a relationship or in between being in a relationship which is like

27:04Jay Shetty:kind of just being alone with yourself yeah right so basically you're saying that i must be amazing Amazing. I'm so patient. That's correct. So flexible. I didn't want to like pump the ego. I know. Thank you. That was what I was getting at. Yeah. My wife's just so lucky that I've been like so patient. It's been the other way around on many, many occasions, but marriage is so hard.

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29:34Jay Shetty:Indeed.com forward slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. Hey, it's me, Jay, and I just wanted to share this one phone call I had with a friend. It was when I just made one of the biggest decisions in my career and I was nervous about how it would be received. Then my friend called me out of the blue just to check in And hearing their voice, their encouragement Completely changed my perspective That moment reminded me how powerful a simple connection can be And did you know that 2026 will mark 150 years Since the first phone call March 10th, 1876 From that one call it all grew The first long distance lines The first call across America The first across the Atlantic The first commercial cell service Even the first 911 system AT &T has been connecting people in so many ways for 150 years.

30:29Jay Shetty:I can't help but wonder how many lives were changed, how many important conversations happened, even how many lives were saved, all because people could reach each other. 150 years of connecting. That's not just history, that's a reminder. When technology brings people together, we can do incredible things. Connecting changes everything.

30:48Hilary Duff:AT &T.

30:58Jay Shetty:it is so hard to grow with someone it is so hard to continue to grow it's so hard to grow at a different pace it's so hard to grow at opposite paces sometimes it feels like and yeah what would you say the biggest lessons you took away from your first marriage that

31:13Hilary Duff:really have helped you in that healing transition i don't love to talk about this too much um because Because, you know, I felt like in that time of my life, I was so ready to get married. I was in something that I really adored. I was ready to have a baby. I was ready to have something of my own, you know, that I could just like focus on and it be mine. And like my life felt out of my hands a little bit at that moment. And I just wanted to like shrink it. I've been pretty open about, you know, being a divorced person and what that's like and being a single mom and being, you know, kind of like choosing to like end a family is a huge, horrible choice to make.

31:57Hilary Duff:but I also co-parent that with with that person and we do a great job mostly sometimes there's bumps and frustrations but again ebbs and flows right but like we adore this person that we created and we do a great job this is like before you know conscious uncoupling was like a coined a term and we really tried to do that I really tried to do that like you just grow yeah And I think I did.

32:27Jay Shetty:You strike me as someone who follows your intuition. You even said it earlier when you were talking about your current relationship. You're like, I'm so glad my intuition was right. And the album's called Luck or Something. And so I wanted to ask you, what's the relationship between intuition and luck? And has your career and journey, and even this inspiration behind this album, how much of it has been luck and how much of it's been intuition?

32:50Hilary Duff:I think a lot of it has been intuition. And I think that falls under the category of the or something. part of it where I'm like, actually, I deserve some credit here. I feel incredibly lucky. I don't know why me, but I do know that I've also worked really hard and I know that I've had to go through a lot. The title is pretty loaded and can mean a whole and does mean a whole bunch of different things to me, like what I just said, but also it's a coy way of like responding to a question I'm constantly asked, which is like, how are you so normal? How did you get through this? And I'm like, luck or something.

33:28Jay Shetty:Yeah, got it.

33:29Hilary Duff:But I think the or something is the real weighted portion.

33:33Jay Shetty:It's good when you think you're lucky and everyone else realizes it was hard work. It's kind of what I think is like the accurate assessment. Anyone that I know that I believe has achieved something amazing. And when I say achieved something amazing, I think it's, it could be being grounded in a difficult industry. It could be something athletically successful, like whatever you define as greatness or success or winning, it's the problem becomes when everyone else views it as lucky and you know you view it as hard work and it's like beautiful when like you said I see myself as lucky like I don't know why me like that's beautiful and then if if we can but it's always the other way around it's almost like yeah people like to think I got asked that the other day I was asked someone's asking me in an interview like why do you think people listen to you and why do they connect with you and I was like to be honest I always struggle with that question because I feel really grateful and fortunate that anyone even cares to listen to me.

34:23Jay Shetty:I remember speaking to rooms of like three people. And so I feel completely humbled by where it's gone. And then I was like, at the same time, like, I think it's because I've been doing this for a long time. I've done it for longer offline than I have online.

34:36Hilary Duff:Yeah. Like, honestly, when I zoom out and like, it would be hard for you to answer this way, but I'm like, probably because you're smart. You know what I mean? Probably because you're smart. Probably because I think that you have a gift and you can connect with people. I feel like I have a similar gift like that. Like some, for some reason I resonate with people in a certain way. And, but like you have to take credit for what you build and you also can feel lucky and you also can feel immense gratitude and, you know, how did I get here? Um, feelings, but like, you're also smart and you're good at what you do.

35:16Hilary Duff:That's very sweet.

35:17Jay Shetty:I appreciate that. I appreciate coming from you, but I like what you're saying about the idea of all these things can coexist.

35:23Hilary Duff:Yeah.

35:23Jay Shetty:And that's why I like the luck or something. I think you're so right. Like we're allowed to feel all of these emotions. Like there's pride, there's gratitude, there's luck, there's intuition, there's, there's, and confusion even still. Yeah. And, and insecurities and, and everything. And it's almost like when we're forced to be like, well, tell me the one thing that changed your life. and you're like, oh, luck or something. I can't, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like luck or something is the new answer now. That's what I'm going to use every time I'm asking. You can have it. Yeah, if I'm going to use it now, I'm going to encourage lots of people to use it because, yeah, and I, honestly, we've only met briefly, but like the impact you've had on people proves that there's so much hard work, so much talent, such a gift, like so much, you know, because you can't have that.

36:06Jay Shetty:People grow up watching a lot of people. It doesn't mean that you carry that same impact. So same back at you. And it's, yeah, it's something that's very visceral in anyone that's followed you for a long time. I wanted to jump into your album because I've been getting to listen to it, which I've really enjoyed, which has been so wonderful for me. And I'm very deep into, because I love words and I love spoken word. I love poetry. I love, I took out some lyrics that really, I felt were beautiful and powerful. So I may read your own lyrics back to you. I can't sing them back to you because I can't sing to save my life, but I may read them back to you.

36:41Jay Shetty:But I wanted to ask you about this one. So you say in your song, Weather for Tennis, you write or you sing, I'm a seasoned apologist for the people who I love. I'm an amateur psychologist. The key to everyone's handcuffs. Keep the peace because I'm a kid of divorce and you're the starter of wars and there's no winning in yours. Where does that show up in your life today? Like where did that come from and where does it show up?

37:05Hilary Duff:I think it's talking about being the person who's smooth silver and makes everything right and extends themselves and continues to show up and try to make things easy for everyone. And you're talking about being in a relationship that is going to keep playing a game. And, you know, towards the end of the song, you finally realize, like, I'm going to put an end to this. the message behind it is a feeling that a lot of people can relate to of just it's exhausting to to keep up always being the one to make things right or to carry the burden or to make the call or to stay the bigger person and keeping the peace because you're a kid of divorce is obviously very relatable people don't need too much explaining on that one And I think it's definitely a role that I play in my life.

38:01Hilary Duff:And Matt had this amazing idea for the song. We started playing tennis together. And I think that it was definitely inspired by just like the game of tennis and kind of applying it to a relationship, a romantic relationship that's probably not going to work out.

38:19Jay Shetty:Expand on that further with a tennis analogy for me.

38:21Hilary Duff:The chorus is, if it ain't the weather for tennis, then I guess we can argue until dinner time. so it's just kind of about a game being played and a cycle that is constantly like repeating yeah right before we started writing the record together maybe a year before uh i was like if we're gonna last the long haul we need sport we need to like learn how to play a sport together and so we picked up tennis and i also forced him to learn how to ski which is like one of his favorite things to do now. And we love to ski. But I think that I think the chorus was inspired for him because we had started playing the game of tennis.

39:01Jay Shetty:I think you're spot on. I think so many kids can feel like they were the peacemaker in their family. I know plenty of people who've gone to therapy or talked about that with me and this idea of just they were the one trying to calm everyone down. And people have different versions of this, like you meet comedians who did it through making everyone laugh. And then that becomes their journey. And that's a very on the nose example. But all of us have played some sort of role of being mediators. I often feel is that I do what I do today because I mediated my parents marriage growing up. So I was the kid who was like, at 10 years old, like listening to both sides and helping them connect and trying to find the points at which they could relate to each other.

39:41Jay Shetty:And I don't regret doing that. I'm actually very happy I did that. It gave me great skills for

39:45Hilary Duff:life my parents divorced when i was around 18 and i feel like that was a really hard time um because i was like kind of an adult and then you like have a you're like did they just stay together to get us to this point and now you have guilt that they were like unhappy or just like so many different things i gave up being the peacemaker of it when i

40:11Jay Shetty:became around 21. So I remember that time vividly in my life where I was like,

40:16Hilary Duff:What did that feel like? Giving that up, making the choice to be like, I'm not doing that anymore.

40:20Jay Shetty:Oh, it was tough because there were certain members of my family that felt that I was giving up my responsibility.

40:26Hilary Duff:And you're like, this actually wasn't my job in the first place.

40:29Jay Shetty:Correct. And so that was the, I remember that being the tension where I was like, I love my parents. I'm grateful for everything they've given me and really valuable. and I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't have this situation that I grew up in. But I think now's the time that I've spent, however many, obviously I didn't start medialing when I was four years old, but I've spent whatever, 10 years of my life trying to figure this out and I'm not capable. So there's a part of me that felt like a failure. There's part of me that felt like, you know, like that I was right and I was free to give up the media and the peace part that you're talking about.

41:04Jay Shetty:But I think that's what's so interesting is that I gave up that responsibility at 21, even though I saw the decision at 10. But did you ever get answers to your whys and your questions? Or was that something that you kind of found on your own?

41:16Hilary Duff:I think it was really hard for them to like be honest with each other. And there was a lot of like fighting and it wasn't not like they could hang out and be in the same room. And so when it came from me getting divorced, I was like, I'm not going to have that. We're going to like do holidays together as much as we can. And not that it was always easy, but it felt way easier than the alternative. yeah you know yeah yeah for sure so yeah i don't i don't my dad and i don't really have much of a relationship and we don't speak very often it's hard because i think there's not a whole bunch of answers and it's you kind of hear one side and then try to take from it what you believe and then you know the same on the other and i i it's really it's really hard i think if a family breaks apart very dramatically it's hard to find your way back uh sometimes and some people want to and some people don't yeah it's i feel like as the older you get you

42:10Jay Shetty:realize you've got to answer the questions yourself and find you've got to kind of find the full stop by yourself kind of like the point that you're making this lyric of just i've decided i'm not taking on this responsibility in whatever in whatever way you played it do you feel sometimes do you feel free of it or is it is it always like something that no once you played that role you're always kind of conditioned to play that role i do i think it's a little bit

42:33Hilary Duff:like muscle memory where you lean on it and then you have to remember some of the through therapy or wherever you find your solace like you have to keep pushing those good habits or good things to say to yourself to cope and make different choices it's almost like that conditioning pulls you back

42:54Jay Shetty:and then you've got to find this new thought process almost like learning new lines as an actor and going well yeah this is the new life that i want to build and even what you just said about how you knew that when you went through it, you didn't want to mirror some of those behaviors. And you're like, no, we're going to do holidays together and we're going to change things because that is tearing away that muscle memory and going, I'm going to change it. Yeah. Yeah. There's another amazing lyric that I love that I took apart here. So this one. Okay.

43:27Hilary Duff:Don't tell me what song it's from. Okay. I like to play a game.

43:30Jay Shetty:Oh, okay. Oh, I didn't know. Okay, fine. All right. If you want to play games, we're going to play some games later. Okay, but I won't tell you what song it's from. Okay, so the first question will be, what song is it from after I read it? Okay. Okay, I like this. This is good. I should have done it like that. We come from the same home, the same blood, a different explanation of the same thought. People ask if I've seen you, and honestly, I hate it, because the truth is that I need to, but there's no way to relay it not if we don't talk yeah

44:00Hilary Duff:so that's from we don't talk

44:05and

44:09Hilary Duff:this is a hard one for me this is a really tough one

44:19Hilary Duff:my sister and I don't speak and And I think in my adulthood, I've come across more and more people that are having this experience. And as painful as it feels to share, when I decided to make this record, I could only talk about the things that I've gone through. Like there would be no purpose to make a record after 10 years than to be, than to face, you know, what it's been like.

45:05Hilary Duff:So that's my truth. And I really worked hard to lyrically make sure that I'm just speaking about my experience, you know. it's very hard to be to be you know a person who's like had their life exposed in the industry for 25 years and we were talking about you know that earlier tiptoeing around kind of what the outcome has been for some of it um but yeah that is it's a very vulnerable song and it's a very raw part of my existence um and i hope it's not forever but it's for right now sorry don't be sorry

45:51Jay Shetty:there's a tissue there's thank you you guys come locked and loaded because this happens thank you for being so vulnerable and open with me because it's can't imagine how hard it is yeah and so sorry that you and her are going through that i'm sure it's hard on you both in different ways.

46:11Hilary Duff:Totally. I agree with that. It's definitely a raw nerve. Everybody has their reasons and there's, um, relationships are difficult even with your family, especially with your family. Yeah. I think it's, it's easier when you aren't connected that way.

46:30Jay Shetty:Yeah. And it seems like you yearn for that relationship back because you say I need to, like it's not it's not something that you're kind of throwing away or giving up as you said there's you there's a part of you that seems hope it changes that's the person i grew up with the only one i really hope she i really hope she hears the song you do yeah i hope she hears it and i hope it's at least the beginning of some way back to whatever it is that's good for both of you and that you both desire because whatever that looks like yeah that's what's hard with family is that we assume that good looks like everything's close and everything's perfect and that's what we think when we're growing up and we get older and we go oh wait it doesn't it doesn't always look like that

47:14Hilary Duff:you desire like in family like this picture and that's not reality a lot of the times for people yeah and so you're like you get to a certain age I mean I have my own family who is put first no matter what and I've gotten to make different rules for my family but yeah you you get to a certain age where you're like oh that doesn't feel good or that's not right or that's you know it's very hard to think of family in the way that you grow up thinking of family when yes so much shifts and changes and I love my family in certain ways and certain memories and also like huge struggles have you know occurred and not like putting that one responsibility on anybody involved you know assuming some myself so you know it's it's it's very complicated yeah I think

48:10Jay Shetty:family is complicated you're absolutely right thank you for being so open and honest the you you know, to the point that we can tell just how hard this is for you and how heavy it all is. And I'm sure everyone who's listening right now is thinking that, God, I know exactly what relationship in my life makes me feel that way, whether it's with a sibling, a father, a parent, or family member. And so, yeah, thank you for going there. I'm going to do one more. You can guess the song, do one more lyric.

48:38Hilary Duff:Love it.

48:38Jay Shetty:Yeah. One more lyric.

48:39Hilary Duff:Please don't make me cry.

48:40Jay Shetty:I hope I'm not making you cry I would hate to be the one making you cry that is not my intention whatsoever and I respect you too much you tell me how you feel about stuff this is the last lyric we're doing so we went I promise what I find fascinating about you is your lyrics are so real and raw and clear and they are so resonant with anyone and everyone who's going through similar things through you are, which I think many, many people are. And so often when I read lyrics, they're so metaphorical, but you're like poetic, but real. And so this one, you can guess the song. So the lyric goes, I wish I could sleep on planes and then my father would really love me.

49:27Jay Shetty:He'd show up on my wedding day and tell my family they're all so lucky. He'd tell me how he wish he stayed and that he never meant to disappoint me, but till then I'll exist as the optimist.

49:39Hilary Duff:I think more just being very vulnerable and open about what it's like to be in a family that your parents aren't together and you don't have relationships with both of your parents. It's devastating and it feels... I think it doesn't matter what age you are you want your parents to feel like they care about you. And big portion of my existence hasn't felt like that. I don't know if that's the truth, but that's how it feels. And so that's just what I'm sharing in that song, The Optimist. I love that song so much. I think I live in this world that like, I'm really happy. I'm really like goofy. I'm really silly.

50:33Hilary Duff:A lot of hard things have happened to me. And I think that with the album, I wanted to share that emotional depth and that some of that heaviness, but like disguised with, you know, a very joyful track. And I think that's like very much how I like to exist in the world is like this balance of these two things can exist at the same time. And, you know, the record is a pop record. It feels like you want to blast it in your car. At least I do. That's when I knew it was done. you know um but they're like life topics and life is really challenging really hard really tricky to make the right calls and the wrong calls all it's all just a process and like a very beautiful and messy one and and i feel like the record has just so much of that in it you know it's like a feels like a capture of 10 years of different things flying at you i know you have this other song

51:29Jay Shetty:that we all love i'm not reading out any more lyrics i i uh i know you have this other song that we all love called mature i was just thinking as you were saying that that there's so much maturity in being able to be like hey i'm fine and goofy and at the same time there's all this stuff going on and like yeah and and i think that's everyone who's growing up with you and is experiencing all of that too and i feel like only knowing one side especially through someone that people have followed and continue to follow for so many years it's you feel less alone i feel like people are going to feel less alone when they listen to this album but in a good way not just like in their feels but like you said blasting it out it's a part where like i love that juxtaposition of making people feel less alone but also making them have fun i love that juxtaposition too and i love that word because playing the the the few little shows that that i

52:22Hilary Duff:played before I go out this summer was such a cool feeling of like the audience one is like my age so they're all adults now and we've grown up together and it was like I'm playing these old songs that feel so good to people and hold such a sweet like innocent part of their being you know That meant something to them at a very pivotal coming of age. And to get to hold that memory for people is such a badge for me. But then also to meet them with the new songs and kind of experiences that life has provided was a really cool experience to have them sing these songs that they have from the record, you know to seeing them and us be adults and be connecting on that level is like really really powerful so it's like this really cool floaty feeling of like this thing that feels really good that we get to lean on and like celebrate from our past but you know be like me too you

53:31Jay Shetty:know in the now like that says so much about you because i think that you saying that i want people to have that experience that meant so much to them even though you have transformed you have grown you have changed you have gone through all of this that just speaks like volumes of your character honestly because it's it's it's so easy for people to want to like be like that was me then i'm gonna leave that behind this is the new me now and that's generally what we do as humans yeah that was that and it was cool and yeah and it's like for you to be like no i just love doing it because it brings people so much joy and i get to share this part of them like that juxtaposition truly is yeah i just want to thank you for that because i think it shows just how much you have in your heart of wanting to make people happy and wanting to finding them to have these moments and

54:13Hilary Duff:I think it you know I don't know if it would have been possible for me to do 10 years ago I don't know why now all of a sudden I really don't know how to answer like what shifted and what made me find such peace with my past you know like but I'm really proud of it now and I get to go and celebrate it and it feels like I get to be a part of it with everybody instead of trying to like shy away from it and be like, I'm an adult or I'm changed or I'm different or that's not me anymore. Like that is a part of me and it will always be like a part of me. And it feels really fun to celebrate that with people that it meant something to.

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58:23Jay Shetty:it's almost like we all we all go through pain and then there's transformation and maybe at 10 years ago there was some transformation happening in your life but now you're coming back as a celebration and a celebration is like how we look back at our whole life like i went to i went to three 70th birthdays last year and like i looked at life like totally different because i'm 38 same yeah yeah we're the same age and and i went to i went to these three 70 year old birthdays uh two of them i'm very close with one of them i'm becoming closer with and they had like their kids grandkids they had all their friends that were important at different phases of their life and everyone gave speeches and like it was i and i i'm a sucker for this stuff like i love to love love and friendship and all this stuff yeah and and i was like wow like when you're 70 like life just looks so different and it's what you just said it's like you're at a point where you're celebrating your you know not that you're 70 years old and not not saying that yeah but that spirit

59:19Hilary Duff:i've had a lot of chapters you know that it's really weird people will be like oh what is what do you remember from this time i'm like what do you remember from 25 years ago like certain things stand out but yeah that's that's amazing definitely when you get to 70 i can imagine if i'm almost at 40 and feeling the thing that everyone told me I was going to feel at 40. Imagine what 70 is like to get there and like a life well lived and having people from all your eras show up and, you know, speak for you and have relationships as long as you can have it at 70. You know, it's cool. It's really cool.

59:58Jay Shetty:Has making music and writing been your therapy? Has that been your outlet has that what how would you describe making this album is it is it therapy is it transformative is it is it celebration what what is it for you and what does it give you

1:00:15Hilary Duff:i think that what really triggered me wanting to make an album was having my fourth child and being like i love motherhood i'm obsessed with my kids obviously i wouldn't have four kids if I wasn't like deeply, utterly obsessed with like the way they run through the house, the way they breathe, the way we like, just everything about the smallest things to the biggest things, like obsessed with them. But I was like, I can't stay here and just be like in this because I know so much else about myself that has to be like stretched. So I think I got really jealous actually of Matt after I had Towns and I was like still nursing and, you know, busy with the other kids and like running our household and all of that, all of that responsibility, which I actually genuinely love, but I can't, that can't be like it for me.

1:01:19Hilary Duff:So he was like going, he has an amazing studio. He was like going to the studio every day and just like getting to have alone time and getting to like sit with things that like bump around his head and in his head and like make him tick and like purge, you know, his like creativity and create. And I was just like, I want that too. And he was like, cool. Like, are you serious? Like it's not like for 10 years I've been writing songs. I've been like deep in motherhood. It's been way easier to like film a TV show, which I also love doing. But like motherhood is a place where you just can completely focus on and throw all of your energy to and then like forget yourself.

1:02:02Hilary Duff:So being able to know that he has like the front row seat to my whole entire life and then sitting and like figuring out what this is going to sound like and what I'm going to talk about felt so safe and so natural. We have such a busy life. It wasn't like there was just endless sessions where I'm like, we're writing for eight hours. Like a lot of it was like a text and I'd be like, I'm going to get the kids from school. But what if we, what if it's this line? What if it's, what if this happens instead of that? You know, like it's just like quick phone calls and a conversation in the kitchen while making plates for the kids.

1:02:37Hilary Duff:It just happened really naturally and like a wave that it would happen like this with like the way that we live together.

1:02:45Jay Shetty:That sounds crazy, chaotic and beautiful. What a way to make an album together and what a way to have the experience that you're having and then going off and creating. When you speak of motherhood, it's so real and at the same time, it's just like so wonderful to hear about it from you. Like it's, and, and I know we were speaking about it a bit earlier when you walked in and just how like you're like dropping the kids off at sports and like picking them up. And even today, I think when you arrived, you were like, yeah, I'm going to go get to pick up the kids after this or whatever, you know? And I'm like, it's so wonderful.

1:03:17Jay Shetty:And obviously you just said that you wouldn't have four kids if you, if you didn't. What is, what would you say is your favorite way of showing love to the kids?

1:03:26Hilary Duff:One thing that my mom was with me and my dad as a young child, really playful, extremely silly and playful. And I have that from them. I love that. And I love to play tricks on my kids. I love to like be silly and get down on their level and just be really playful with them. And I think that's a huge important part of like the parent child relationship. and then time time spent talks deciding to make an album and go on tour i'm going to miss so much that i've really tried to be there for and it could make me cry again thinking about you know may may my four-year-old has um her school tea party this friday and i'm not going to be there and like for banks i threw the tea party with like three other moms and was there And so you're like, this feels off balance.

1:04:33Hilary Duff:This isn't fair. But I will make it fair. I'll find a way to make it fair. And so I think just showing up for your kids and giving them the time, even if it's yesterday, I had a really busy day and I flew up the canyon for like 40 minutes with Maymay, with Towns, my youngest. and I drove to Luca's soccer practice to go do an hour-long interview and then take him to his next soccer practice and by the time I got home it was like 9 p.m but Matt and I drove him together because we were both at the studio and then we like walked the track and watched him play soccer so like we got our time not all the kids got their time but two of them did and you just try to like find the balance and be like okay I'm not choosing towns this day I'm choosing May May I'm gonna go watch her a dance or I'm going to, you know, you just, you just find a way to make it work and try to be in tune with what your kids need and keep conversations open.

1:05:30Hilary Duff:And that's that.

1:05:31Jay Shetty:Do you think about sometimes like when they get older, I'm going to talk to them about how like, I wasn't at this pipe where we did this thing. Or do you think about it that way? Or not really? Is that, am I completely missing the point?

1:05:40Hilary Duff:The things that kids stick, that stick with them is so devastating. My son.

1:05:47Jay Shetty:That's so painful.

1:05:48Hilary Duff:It's so painful. Like my son.

1:05:51Jay Shetty:Please, I need to learn now.

1:05:53Hilary Duff:Okay, we were at Disneyland. This is, okay, he's 13 now. So he must have been like eight or nine. And Disneyland's a big deal. We happen to go like every year, but it's a big deal. And he would not get on this roller coaster. And I was like, everyone's going on it. Like you can't know until you try. Like I ended up pushing it too hard, making him cry. and it like he wrote like a a thing about it at school no I was like what about all the times that I'm amazing oh no and all the time now and now we can joke and he loves to ride roller coasters and I'm like I told you I told you you had to just listen to me that you would know and we could have been having more fun since this age instead of this age and blah you know like we obviously like razz each other a ton but um he's always like remember that time he made me cry because I I want to get on the roller coaster.

1:06:44Jay Shetty:And I'm like, never live it down. He needs to write a new thing in school now about how he loves roller coasters and how it started from that point.

1:06:51Hilary Duff:They don't see it like that. But I'm going to tell him you said so.

1:06:54Jay Shetty:Yeah, yeah, that's only fair. But did he ride the roller coaster the first time? No.

1:06:59Hilary Duff:Oh, so he wasn't even that bad then. I think he was like, you tried to put too much pressure on me, blah, blah, blah. Now we just went to Disney World for Christmas with the kids for three days. It was so insane. Four kids, Disney World, three days. How are you doing that? On Christmas Day, we flew. It was crazy.

1:07:18Jay Shetty:That's the best Christmas day. But now I put no.

1:07:20Hilary Duff:I'm like, you ride it when you're ready. I am not going to be like nabbed as that.

1:07:26Jay Shetty:Yeah, not by that teacher. You're reminding me that my niece and nephew, my nephew is like, he's 10 years old now. He's like two years old when this happened. Barely. Yeah, maybe two years old. We were in the pool at Christmas time. we'd taken the family away and we were in a pool and he was in one of those donuts and he needed those and he had his armbands on and everything because obviously he can't swim yeah he can't swim he's tiny and so it was me him and his dad hanging out in the pool and uh oh stitches what happened oh so i was i was playing this game with him which he loved so he won't say this i was playing this game with him where i was pretending to be a little shark coming at him and and i would come out and i'd surprise him and he'd laugh and whatever and so i'd kept i I keep doing that.

1:08:10Jay Shetty:One time I do it, he falls through the hoot, like the donut. For some reason he got so scared that his whole body just fell through it. And obviously Min has got him out immediately. Like he was fine. All he does is tell this story. He's like, do you remember when you need it?

1:08:25Hilary Duff:And you're like, you can't possibly remember.

1:08:27Jay Shetty:And I'm like, dude, you weren't even, like you were there, but you do not have a memory for this. He's like, no, I remember that moment when you were trying to be a shark. And now he's teasing me with it. Like it's not like he's actually upset. For the first few years, I thought he was never going to be my friend again. I was really sad about it. That's so funny. But you're so right. Like it's so true. Kids are just.

1:08:45Hilary Duff:When the fun games take a turn and you're like, oh no, now you're scarred.

1:08:49Jay Shetty:Totally. And he's 10 years old and now he uses it against me. And I'm like, hey, I've got loads of stories on you. Like I've got so many stories on you being silly when you were younger. And we've got video of it too. So, but no, you're so right, kids. And I guess that's what's so hard with children. It's like you think you're doing things right. And then, you know, you never know. And that's why I think that overriding love is just so valuable, right? Because you can't predict how they're going to react to one of these experiences, I guess.

1:09:14Hilary Duff:Right. You also just don't know that you're always doing things right. And I think that's okay. I have a lot of confidence in being a parent just because, you know, the more times you do something, you're like, oh, I know what this looks like. Oh, I know how to do this thing. But I've never been a parent of a 14-year-old. And I've never been the parent of a eight year old girl. Like all of these things are just it's a constant checking in, updating one thing that works for this kid doesn't work for this kid. And so it is chaotic, but it's so fun. And you like learn so much and the love is so big and we laugh a lot.

1:09:54Hilary Duff:I'm so grateful for that. My favorite. We we have these big doors that open in the in the back of our house and we just will like open up all the door. We have cats now, so we have to put the cats away. But we just open all the doors up and it's just like kids running in and out and soccer in the backyard and everybody playing and jumping on the trampoline or swimming. And I just am so appreciative of them and Matt and what we've built. It's such a haven.

1:10:26Jay Shetty:How did they end up with all these cool names? Like Towns and Banks and Maymay.

1:10:31Hilary Duff:Towns and Banks and Maymay. Gosh, how did they end up with their names? They're so unique. They're beautiful. I know. Well, May, that was, we thought she was a boy. She was the only kid that we didn't find out what we were having because we had her in the pandemic. And I think we were all looking for ways to entertain ourselves and surprise ourselves.

1:10:52Jay Shetty:Yeah, for sure.

1:10:53Hilary Duff:So she was a, her like gender was a surprise. And we thought for sure she was going to be a boy. She was a girl. and both of our moms were born in May. So we named her May May or May. We call her May May. She just came to the realization that her nickname is longer than her real name. And she's like really confused by why we would do that. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. She's smart. Yeah. And she introduces herself as May May. Yeah. But she's like, why is Banks not like Banks Banks? And like, what is going on here? Yeah. They're very funny. Yeah. I don't think we wanted like traditional names, but we also didn't want like names that, you know, they didn't feel comfortable with as adults.

1:11:34Hilary Duff:So we hope we nailed it. But they also have more normal middle names.

1:11:37Jay Shetty:Okay, right. In case. I like them. They're so fun. Thank you. I feel like I haven't met them before, but like they all sound like they have a personality based on their names.

1:11:47Hilary Duff:They all have a very big personality. I like that the girls' names, the two banks and towns, they kind of have like last name sounding names, which feels strong for girls. And that was kind of my goal.

1:11:59Jay Shetty:Nice. I love it. Hilary, you've been amazing to talk to, truly. I've loved this conversation. I feel like I've learned so much about you. I feel like I feel closer to you just from how open you've been, how vulnerable you've been. We have a couple of games, as I promised you, segments to finish off our interview. So I'm going to bring them out now. So there's a couple that we invented recently that we absolutely love. And so there's two games. The first one is called Would You Rather? And it's the Disney era edition. Oh, yes.

1:12:33Hilary Duff:Usually we play with like disgusting food or like horrible things, but let's go.

1:12:36Jay Shetty:This is a lot easier. So would you rather have to say, Hi, I'm Hilary Duff and you're watching Disney Channel every time you introduce yourself or have the Lizzie McGuire animated character in your head at all times?

1:12:49Hilary Duff:Oh, she lives in their rent-free baby. I think I would have her living. I mean I've accepted her in my head so I'm choosing the latter

1:12:59Jay Shetty:okay that makes sense that's good we can't see it you have to do it okay second one walk every red carpet now in low rise jeans or a scarf worn as a top

1:13:10Hilary Duff:no no so my option is low rise jeans on the red carpet or a scarf as a top a dress skirt as a top oh my gosh that is so impossible. This is forever. This is for eternity.

1:13:29Jay Shetty:This is, yeah, yeah. It's would you rather. Let's say for the next 12 months. Let's say for the next 12 months. That works for me.

1:13:35Hilary Duff:I'm going low rise jeans.

1:13:36Jay Shetty:Okay, there we go. All right. Perfect. I was being kind. I was being kind. Would you rather have come clean play every time it starts raining or have wake up as your alarm clock every morning?

1:13:45Hilary Duff:Oh my God. Well, I feel like every time it's raining and I open Instagram, come clean is playing.

1:13:54Jay Shetty:In your head?

1:13:55Hilary Duff:Yeah. But the way that I'm going to skirt around this is that we live in LA and it doesn't rain very often. So I'm choosing that one.

1:14:01Jay Shetty:Good answer. These are great responses. I love that. Okay. Very good. There's so many more. I'll have to send you some of these because I need to get through some of these questions. But this is the last one of the Would You Rather Disney era edition. Okay. Would you rather bring back ultra thin eyebrows or foundation over the lips?

1:14:19Hilary Duff:Oh, you definitely didn't come up with that one. I didn't. Whoa, I think, oh, that's so tough. I think I'm going to go with ultra thin eyebrows. Might be a vibe. I think so. I hope like the 12 month rule can be applied to this answer as well. Yes, the 12 month rule applies to the wall. I'm going to go thin eyebrow. I never want foundation on my lips again. That was like a must before I went out. I would just like blot out my lips. Now we're like all crayoning to make our lips bigger.

1:14:48Jay Shetty:That's fascinating. hence 12 months makes sense because you never know what could come back that's true okay this game's called gut reaction so you have to just finish the sentence okay one thing my kids make

1:14:59Hilary Duff:fun of me for is getting gotten by ai what do you mean oh you literally be like this is real oh yeah i'm like look at this my son's like cats don't jump on trampolines so that's you're insane I'm like, right. Got it, got it, got it.

1:15:18Jay Shetty:It is getting scary. I know. It is getting scary. I know.

1:15:21Hilary Duff:It's easy to like giggle about it right now. And some of the things that we see are like funny, but no, it's, I don't like it at all.

1:15:28Jay Shetty:Yeah. Yeah. It's scary. All right. The most cringe moment of me on the internet I wish could be erased is?

1:15:34Hilary Duff:Oh, gosh. The most cringe moment of me on the internet. honestly i probably felt like it was the with love dance for a long time but now you've owned it

1:15:46Jay Shetty:we're back baby back i love that it's it's been all over my tiktok feed like i've not seen anything else i've been showing it to everyone i'm like yeah it's all i've been it's all i've been seeing and sharing uh the first i'm not joking i'm not joking first artist you'd want next to you on a long tour bus ride?

1:16:05Hilary Duff:Probably Taylor Swift, because I bet those buses are nice.

1:16:09Jay Shetty:Oh, you want to go on her bus? Yeah, this was on your tour bus. Oh, okay.

1:16:13Hilary Duff:Well, she would probably give me all the tips for a tour because she hasn't stopped.

1:16:17Jay Shetty:Absolutely. Yeah. Those, I mean, tours are hard work. I've never done anything nearly as long as any musician on the planet. I did like 40 shows two years ago and I was like, this is insane.

1:16:27Hilary Duff:I know. It's really hard. It's unbelievable. I was just gone for 12 days and I almost like cried when I just like like saw my pillows on my bed and I was like oh it's gonna be a good night I get my pillows back.

1:16:41Jay Shetty:Hilary we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five these questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum so Hilary Duff these are your final five the first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

1:16:54Hilary Duff:Do you because everyone else has taken.

1:16:57Jay Shetty:Great advice second question what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

1:17:02Hilary Duff:Never grow up. Third question, your favorite thing

1:17:06Jay Shetty:about Matt that you don't say to him enough?

1:17:08Hilary Duff:He's really handsome.

1:17:09Jay Shetty:There you go, Matt.

1:17:10Hilary Duff:Yeah.

1:17:11Jay Shetty:You can play this as many times as you want.

1:17:13Hilary Duff:I know. He's really, I mean, I just, I love looking at him. And I think that he's such a funny guy that it's easy to just be like, yeah, he's so funny. He's like the best. It's easy to, he keeps us laughing. Like he's just like really a fun funny like goof but he's so handsome i love it uh fourth question uh will we ever get a lizzie mcguire reboot i can't answer this in one sentence but i can say that right now it's not in the cards i have a world tour to go on and that's going to take me a few years i think but when i think about lizzie you know i was really excited thinking about her at 30 and going through 30-year-old things, and now I can't really see her at 40, maybe I could start to see her around 55, 60.

1:18:05Hilary Duff:And I think that's interesting.

1:18:07Jay Shetty:That is interesting. We'd love to see that. I love it. All right, very good answer. Fifth and final question we ask is to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

1:18:19Hilary Duff:I wanted to say like loving each other, but you don't have to love everyone. you come into contact with and you don't have to like trust everyone and you also don't have to accept like that's the other thing like accept accept everyone but i think that there needs to be some guidelines do you know what i mean like the basic things yes i wish there was just acceptance of like everybody being like created equal and accepted for

1:18:53Hilary Duff:skin tone or gender or whatever, but there has to be some rules in place for like bad people. Yes. So I guess like using common sense with acceptance.

1:19:07Jay Shetty:Hilary Duff, thank you so much. I'm so excited for everyone to hear your album. So excited. I hope I get to come see you on tour. I'm really excited to see you perform live. Come on, let's go. I'm going to keep you updated. I would love that. This is such a joy. it's such a treat. Thank you for being so open and honest. I hope you got to share everything you wanted to share. I hope you feel seen and heard and so grateful that you trusted me and trusted our platform to come and be so open. So thank you so much.

1:19:30Hilary Duff:Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, thank you.

1:19:33Jay Shetty:If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.

1:19:44Hilary Duff:There's blessing in the breaking. And every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage.

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1:21:51Hilary Duff:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.