Idina Menzel ON: How to Be Present without Self Judgment or Criticism & The Importance of Consistency to Achieve Your Goals

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1:18The process only takes minutes, and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit Progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. My next guest is Idina Menzel. She has a new album called Drama Queen and a children's book called Proud Mouse out September 12th. Make sure to watch and read. My son is mixed. I don't want my whiteness to be something that I know people say, you're the mom, he's going to love you. but there's going to be things that I can't understand for him because I'm not in his skin.

1:54And as he's getting older, he's becoming more and more aware of the society that he lives in and the violence, the racism. And I just want to be someone he can come to. The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. I am so grateful for our community here at the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. And I know that you're always looking for new stories, new ideas, new things to bring into your life so that you can feel better, feel happier, feel healthier, and feel healed.

2:33And today I'm talking to a guest who has a really unique experience of life. And that's what I love. I love learning about people who've come from different backgrounds, different walks of life, taken different paths. and I'm speaking to all of you about Idina Menzel, a powerhouse multi-hyphenate, a singer, an actress in film and TV, a songwriter, a Broadway star, and a philanthropist. And I mean, her accolades are absolutely unbelievable. Idina rose to fame for her role as Maureen in the popular Broadway musical Rent and her career took off when she won a Tony Award for her role as Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West in the musical Wicked.

3:12If you haven't seen it, it's phenomenal. I can't believe you haven't seen it yet. Idina's voice can be heard as Elsa in Disney's Oscar-winning Frozen, the second highest-grossing animated film of all time with more than$1.2 billion in worldwide box office revenue. And right now she's out talking about her children's book, Loud Mouse, which we'll be hearing about today as well. Please welcome to the show Idina Menzel. Idina, thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's so grateful to meet you and so happy to get to spend this time with you. I know you've had a long day. We were just talking about you've been up since 4 a.m.

3:46Yeah, and I'm on LA time. So that's what was weird because I couldn't get to bed with my jet lag. So I'm running on empty, but I'm happy to be here. I've just come in as well three days ago. And so I know what that feels like. But I guess the question is that you've been up since 4 a.m. You've been doing so much work today. What drives you? What motivates you? What keeps you going? My son, my 13-year-old son, Walker, I think that's the main driving force. I mean, obviously, creativity and my, you know, artistic soul, my desire to keep creating and finding new ways to express myself. But if I'm being completely honest, it's, you know, it's how can I be a better mom?

4:36What am I doing today to help my son? You know, my relationship with my husband. I think it's because I've turned 50 now and the ambition starts to wane a little bit when you have a little success, too. You know, like start to feel OK, like I can afford to pay for his schooling and I can pay my mortgage and I'm doing wonderful things and working with terrific people. And so I can relax a little bit. When I was younger, I was just pounding the pavement so hard, you know, and really I believed in myself, but I was just really working hard and playing gigs everywhere and trying to get noticed. And so at this age, it starts to, you know, you go, okay, everything's going to be okay, you know.

5:33And so you want to give a lot of energy to your relationship, your marriage, to your child. And that's why this children's book is, I guess, is sort of an organic step in the evolution of things, you know. Because people always ask me to do one, you know. Because I guess my trajectory of characters and this sort of Elphabas and Elsas and these amazing young women that have all this incredible power and are role models for kids. And it's all about, you know, embracing that power and harnessing it and not being afraid to send it out into the world. You know, there's for some reason there's the universe has thrown these things my way.

6:24I don't know if it's the chicken or the egg. Is it me, you know, choosing these somehow, even though they were jobs I needed and I had to audition for them. So I think that there's in the tradition of those characters, I felt that I wanted to write a children's book. That was about really me having those very similar experiences when I was little and really believing in myself at a young age, really recognizing that I had something special to offer, but also being hesitant to share it out of fear of being alienated, being disliked, feeling like I was calling too much attention to myself. How much space can we take up in the world?

7:10What's allowed? especially as women, I think we're always sort of second guessing ourselves. So that's what the book's about. But that's what I deal with as a grown up too, every day. I'm still second guessing when I walk in a room, how much space I can take up, how big my voice is literally and metaphorically. Wow. And how do you think your view has changed of what you view as important from that time when you were like grinding and hustling and busy working hard to now having a bit more I guess structure and peace and a bit of arrival feeling if that makes sense the desperation isn't there you know it doesn't mean that I'm not I'm not still dreaming and I'm there's not things that I there are still things I want there's a lot of things I that I find still elusive to me we could talk about those but so I still have ambition but the fear of literally not being able to pay my rent or not making good on my commitment to myself as a young girl working hard to have my dream come true my dreams have come true I I perform on a stage I perform in all these incredible venues for thousands of people, and I'm Disney princess queen, for God's sakes, you know.

8:36But, you know, the more you get, the more you want. And you see things differently through a different lens when you become a mom, really. Yeah, yeah. Two things you hit there, which I read about you when I was looking for this interview. You said you have many dreams, but then one of the dreams I've heard you've had is your teeth falling out. all right i know that's a different time different type of dream that's not that's not the kind of dream that yeah yeah that's my nightmare have you ever looked into all the meanings behind yeah it's all about anxiety have you ever found a meaning that sits well with you that gives you some comfort and no not that dream it's always such anxiety and that's what i've read about it and i also usually the teeth come out and you can hear the sound of them clinking against the sink Wow.

9:23Yeah. I have that one and I have one that I never actually graduated college, but I'm two credits short. I have it so much that I still wake up with a feeling of like, why do I feel unsettled? Oh, you think you didn't graduate? Which I go, wait. No, I was there. I got my diploma. That's so funny. Yeah. I get the dream of like, I have another exam again. I think that's the one that sets me up. I'm like, no, I don't want to do another exam. I've done enough exams in my life. But no, that's interesting. And yeah, that lack of control, I think that's what I've seen as well. Like when you're losing your teeth in a dream, it's like feeling like the anxiety around losing control.

9:59Yeah. And then I have cracked a tooth on a bagel. So I was like, my nightmare is coming true. On a bagel? You know, whatever. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it was a hard bagel. Yeah. And hearing the teeth, that sounds, sounds make me very legs squirmy. I feel like sounds are tough. And then also with working hard. I mean, before this, you used to, well, not before this, a long time ago, you used to perform at bar mitzvahs and weddings. Which one did you prefer? Was there a better one? Well, I went through different phases. When I was 15 years old, my parents divorced. And I wanted to get a job to kind of help out that, you know, dad was supporting two households.

10:40And my mom started dating this guy who was really sweet and saw a talent in me. And he knew some guy that had a wedding band out in Long Island. And he said, you should audition. I said, I don't know enough songs, you know. And we lied about my age because we didn't want them to worry that I was still a kid. So we said I was 18. Like, that's so old. And I started learning a bunch of songs. I put on kind of a slutty dress. And I went in and I sang, what did I sing back? I'm dating myself, but I sang Evergreen, like a Barbra Streisand song. And I sang We're Walking on Sunshine. Oh, I remember I sang a flash dance song.

11:19Anyway, and I got the job and I started working all the time, weddings, bar mitzvahs. It didn't matter. They all can be bad because nobody's listening. they can be uh really wonderful especially for a young girl becoming uh trying to figure out my identity as a vocalist having to learn so many kinds of genres of music you know like Motown pop rock jazz um so I really that was kind of my education of music and I'm working there's a lot of incredible musicians that do it as a side gig just to make extra money so So the good thing about people not listening is you can try a lot of things. And one of my favorite times would be when they say, ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.

12:09Your salad is being served. And then the band would take a break except for me and the keyboard player. And then we'd sing a Billie Holiday tune or Ella Fitzgerald. And at a young age, I learned what melody is. And I would listen to them on the car ride to the gig. And then I'd learn what I was contributing to it and how to improvise and where were my instincts, my impulses as a singer. And so I actually still identify with, I still see myself as that girl, the chick gig singer, a wedding singer. And it's been so much longer that I've not been that than I was. But I still just feel like that's who I am.

12:55When I'm on stage, I could be at Madison Square Garden. I'm still with my band. I want to jam. I'm okay with spontaneity. You walk on, I was 15 years old, and they call a tune. You have to call it in the right key. You have to know the lyrics. If you don't know the lyrics, you'd tape. Now they have iPads, but I would pull out a little Rolodex of cheat sheets, and I'd tape them to the mic, and I'd sing the songs. Like I said, nobody's paying attention to the band, so they don't see. But I still identify as that person. And no matter what, when I go to someone else's wedding or bar mitzvah or when I get paid to like a lot of money to come be a guest at somebody's and sing a couple songs.

13:36Wow. Then I'm really taken aback. Yeah. Because I'm like, I used to make a hundred bucks, you know, for the night to sing. And then I'm up there and I still feel like that unknown girl just trying to do a great job and get the song done. That's amazing. yeah that's incredible what are the next steps like when you when you hear about that experience that you're in and and i am doing a bit of biography charting because i i do find it fascinating like you know you look at the stage you're on today and you you look back there and you're like wow that's that's a long long way and i think it's easy externally to be like oh yeah there was these line of great things that happened and it took off but like what's the next step from that like where part like where do you like the pretty much immediately like after you're doing that i'm guessing is that building your confidence is it just allowing you to pay for a few things on the side like what is that doing for your creative working um singer to make a living as a singer especially at that age was a source of deep pride yes then as i kept getting rejected at auditions i was writing my own music i was trying to get a record deal nothing was happening Now I'm doing it six, seven years.

14:51Now I'm getting a little bit annoyed. So you were singing at weddings and bar mitzvahs for like six, seven years. Yeah, go in and out depending when I was in college. I went to NYU and certain semesters it was rough, but then other semesters I could pick up gigs. And so then I would be a little bit more, I like to say, disgruntled. And I'd stand and I'd think, if I'm doing this when I'm 30, you know, I'm quitting the business. And I'd get in trouble, the band leader would say, You have an attitude today. And I'd be thinking, well, it's because I just, I'm going to be something one day. You know, I'm going to get out of here.

15:27So I forget what your question was. Well, no, my question is that idea. What was the next thing? No, like that is, you're doing exactly what I was asking. Like that idea that you're going to auditions, what were you auditioning for? Like what was important to you at that time? Yeah, so when I was a little girl, my parents took me in. I grew up in Long Island. They'd take me into the city to see Broadway shows. I wanted to be on Broadway. then when I started doing all these weddings and seeing all these kinds of music I started writing my own music and um my taste uh evolved with the kind of music that I wanted to sing and so um then I wanted my own record deal I wanted to make albums um and so I would now also put rock bands together and I'd go play at CBGB's and at the bitter end down the village and so that started to be the thing that I wanted.

16:14And then I finally, at 25, I got the original cast of Rent, which was the big rock musical of the time, but it was theater, but it was rock. And so that started me on this sort of path of kind of straddling both worlds always, which back then in the 90s, it was not, it was frowned upon to try to go from theater to legitimate rock, pop kind of career. Now everyone can do everything. But back then you didn't, if you were a movie star, you didn't do TV. And if you were a theater person, you weren't going to be, people wouldn't believe you as a rock star. But here I was kind of in both. And so I did that dance for a long time and now you get to the point where you've done so many different things and so many I put out so many kinds of albums and um that I can get on stage and I don't care that I'm one particular style because now my body of work is who I am but it's taken me all that time to feel like um I have a story and identity because back then it was like well who are you what kind of singer are you?

17:29What are you going to be? What do you represent? And I said, well, I can do jazz, and I can do Motown, and I can do Madonna, and Whitney Houston, and rock and roll. And so my versatility was my curse. Wow. And what were you doing by age 30? Because you said, when I get to, if I'm doing this by 30, I'm going to quit. What were you actually doing when you were 30 years old? I was in a workshop of Wicked. Okay, so you... Yeah, so I was hired to develop Wicked, which was a five-year process. Wow. And after every workshop of that, I always thought they were going to replace me with someone more famous or something and so I always thought I was going to get fired so the fact that I actually got to the Gershwin theater when I was I don't know 32 I was like you know you always think you're going to get fired in this business yeah so when they bring you into develop and part of my ignorance just because I don't know so they're bringing you into develops and what does that what does that actually mean does that mean you might make it into the show or you're in the behind the scenes they say that they're looking for their amuses And so they'd like to find the people that they are writing for because the composers are writing and for your voice, which is like the greatest honor.

18:35Rent was like that as well. And most of the things I do because they're original musicals, they go through these long developmental processes, which I love. I love standing on a piano and an incredibly talented composer like Stephen Schwartz or Tom Kidd or Jonathan Larson. and they say, figure out where my voice sits and how they want to write something so that I can soar, you know, and the character can soar. Sometimes that gets confused. Or it's one and the same, I guess. But I love that process so much. And what it is is you go in a room, usually in like a regular rehearsal room, and sometimes they only have the first act.

19:17Sometimes they have the whole thing, but then they – so you do like a little reading of it for a bunch of people, investors and then everyone gives notes and then six months later they've scrapped a bunch of things maybe they took a song out of act two and put it in act one and now that offsets the whole balance and then this part sucks but this part's really working you know and they keep having to and you just go with the flow and um I find it fascinating the whole process yeah no it's it's interesting hearing about as a fan of Broadway I always have been in the West End in London where I grew up and then Broadway here.

19:51It's interesting knowing how it works because I think you take for granted that some of these things, the amount of time they take in development before we even see them. It's funny. I did Wicked at the West End for six months, a year and a half after I left it here in New York. I always wanted to open a show on the West End. To me, that was the most prestigious thing to do. And I had one of the greatest times of my life. I had two Australians starring with me who taught me how to party and do eight shows a week, which I think I only learned that because they like to take credit for that. But I also think it was because I had already won a Tony.

20:28I knew I wasn't going to get fired. I knew how to pace myself eight shows a week. The pressure was off me, and so I could go to the pub after. But, you know, when you're in the beginnings of a show, you're just, you know, you're a monk. Yes. And you don't do anything, and you go home, and you watch movies, and you don't drink alcohol and, you know, so, and that can be kind of lonely. Yeah, those schedules seem just insane. I was with a friend recently. They're piloting a show in San Diego at the Old Globe Theater to try and take it into Broadway. And so I was watching her and she was telling me about her schedule.

21:05And then we just, I just went and saw The Music Man this Sunday and like watching Hugh do that. And it was just, it's fascinating to me to think just what a tough schedule that is. It's exhausting. Yeah. And how do you, like, what were your coping mechanisms the first time around? Like, not when you'd won the Tony and not. Well, the first time with Brent, I lost my voice. Well, I started, I was abusing my voice. I didn't, I took voice lessons my whole life, but I stopped going to my teacher at one point. And I just had never, even though I was singing all those gigs at the weddings, I had never done eight shows a week.

21:40And so I had to go back to a teacher and address all the different problem spots in the show for myself. And then I ended up being stronger than ever. And then it's never happened to me again. But back then, I don't know if you're familiar with Jonathan Larson who wrote. He was a composer. I don't know him, but I know him. But he passed away early on in our process. And it was a very emotional time for all of us. And we all felt so committed to never missing a show because we just felt like our mission was to show up and communicate his message, you know. So for six months, not one of us missed a show.

22:19I was actually the first one because the doctor ordered me to have voice rest. And I've never had a cast do that ever again. I realized that that was very rare that people wouldn't miss a show for six months. So that was a commitment, and that set a precedent, I think, for me. It's also because I have an ego, and I don't want my understudy to go on all the time.

22:46But, yeah, and the more people coming to see a show with your name on the marquee, the more pressure you feel to be there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's a lot of pressure. but I learned um you learn to pace yourself and you learn what I like to say is I have an A B and a C show so the A show is the one that has lots of acrobatic vocals and what I want to sing if I could all the time the B and the C are melodies that um are maybe not as hard but people don't even notice yeah no we're not going to recognize and so it's a psychological thing for me that I don't feel like I'm failing if I don't get the A show I just say I have a cold so go out there and do a really great B show today.

23:28And then the pressure's off and I end up having a great show. So there's a lot of it's mental, you know, and just. That's a great technique. I love that. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that before because I think people think that you only have two choices. You're either on or off. I can't reach that note. Yeah, you're on or off. And that's actually not true. I love the ABC grading for anything in life because I don't think we're ever at our A game every single day. It's not possible. Yeah. And how many times do you realize you think you had the worst show interview whatever and then someone comes and they had no idea what you're talking about all that dialogue in your head that's sabotaging yeah i i went to public speaking drama school since i was 11 years old and so i've been and public speaking is now the majority of my life and so there is i know exactly when i think i messed the lineup or didn't quite get that message across right and i'll be over analyzing it i used to do a lot more earlier days but then you realize no one even noticed any percentage of that but i love your abc grading yeah i wish i could do that with life yeah well i think it's a good tool for life yeah i'm hoping that everyone is today i'll be an abc mom oh i'm not gonna get it all right you know today and my son's gonna be angry with me but that's okay but i'm really hard on myself about that stuff i'm hard on myself in general i'd like to so give myself a break yeah yeah yeah how did you how do you think you were able to give yourself a break on stage because that's obviously in one sense i mean i'm sure and i'd love to hear this as from a mother's perspective but and i don't want to assume either way but i'm guessing you may say that actually being a mother to one child is actually more pressure than performing in front of thousands of people and when i became a mother I found perspective.

25:15Obviously I became less self-absorbed. I realized that my son has a fever tonight. I want to snuggle with him, take care of him. I don't want to worry that, I don't care if I get sick. Yeah, I got a big show tomorrow. What happens if I get strep throat or something? Well, it's too bad. I'm not going to sleep in the other room. That's just not going to be, I just have to be with him. So then I'd wake up the next day, didn't get a lot of sleep, worrying about my kid, I'm on stage, what can I do? I'm doing the best I can. I'd have the best shows, you know, because I just, you know, lowered the expectations of myself and for myself.

25:54And that really, it changed my life in a lot of ways when you have something that you care about way more than yourself. This is Steve Covino from Covino & Rich. Here to tell you Toyota's legacy has been standing tall for generations. from pioneering hybrid technology to redefining the standards of safety and efficiency. With each innovation, a commitment to progress, and with a legendary lineup of in-stock trucks, including the ultra-rugged new Tacoma and heavy-duty half-ton Tundra, you can experience the legacy of Toyota for yourself. Visit buyatoyota.com, the official website for deals, to find out more.

26:30Toyota, let's go places. I'm Radhi Devlukia, and I'm the host of a Really Good Cry podcast, and I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Ury. Logan is a dating expert, a behavioral scientist, a best-selling author, and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating, that Logan has studied and tested, from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using, to the conversation starters that actually work, and the huge no-nos that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps.

27:01Whether you're single, dating, or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need. relationships do require work. And the best relationships are people who really work on them together. They're so focused on, if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship. Instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection. Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you think it's going to take?

27:33I love what you said there. And I think everyone can relate to that. I think anyone who's listening right now if you're a mother you definitely feel it if you're not a mother you'll feel it like the idea of i just need to be a bit easier on myself like i think most people are very self-critical most people who even come across as confident or even arrogant are often insecure and dealing with something internally so i'm not an expert and no not an expert i'm just intrigued as to how you think you're gonna like what well and i also i'm not ashamed to say my publicist here and she's probably like, don't say that.

28:04But I take, you know, Prozac and I have help. And I, yeah, because there are some days where I just, I'm, you know, people expect me to let it go and I can't, you know. So I'm doing the best that I can. But being in the moment, being present, you know, is just the hardest thing to do. It's like what we aspire to do as artists, actors, singers to, you know, it's so weird because the greatest moments I have when I'm performing are usually moments I can't even remember because I transcended in some way, you know. But that's not being present then, you know. And that, you know, you can meditate, you can do all these things, but it's trying to achieve just one moment where I felt like I'm here in my body understanding this without judging myself without criticizing and so um i don't i don't have the answers i just no i give myself things to try to stay in the moment you know whether it's very clinical just think about the lyrics think about breathing think about getting walker to school tomorrow or focusing on the person in front of me and trying to change them and the scene or the song you know but sometimes it's just is really hard i can't get out of there and other days i can yeah but i think that abc grading is you've already you've already come up with the perfect advice yeah no but it's what you said beautifully it's like that's that is the way we all need to think how you started thinking about the stage you know think about our life that way i think it's a great it's a great method and i also have um an incredible husband who was an actor his life changed and he became he's a clinical director of uh an inpatient facility in california that has two houses um recovery and alcohol and drug uh recovery and also mental illness and so he thinks i'm just like a piece of cake all the time, which is really nice to come home and think, he's like, what?

30:17That mood is fine. That's nothing, you know? So that's given me some perspective too. He just thinks all my neuroses is like normal and he can handle it. I'm not too much for him. That's beautiful. That's really special. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, that's a beautiful thing to have in your life. And I think that's true for pretty much, I often think with relationships and with my wife I if I if I sat there I could easily reel off reasons why I think she's annoying or frustrating or whatever it may be like that's easy I think anyone could do that if they've been longer long enough with someone but if I stop to think about the things that are special about her and unique about her and the things that she does that no one else could do all of a sudden it's like all those other things seem so insignificant and irrelevant yeah and i think it's so easy to amplify those small irrelevant life is too short i'm gonna he's gonna i mean he gets on my nerves so much when we travel because i'm traveling all the time i know how to wear my i don't wear shoes with laces i get through the security i know how to do it if something changes i can go get another flight i'm moving and grooving he walks too slow he doesn't have that aggressive traveling attitude and i'm like oh and then i realize Why am I, you know, he's sweet.

31:38Why is this getting on my nerves? Life's too short. You know, when it comes down to it, he's an incredible father to my son. And he's there for me whenever I need him. And he really sees me, sees my soul. And so those little things are so silly. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like we all pair up with someone who's exactly the other way. Like I'm probably more like you in that sense as you describe that. I said, like, you know, I'm like, I want to get to the airport three hours early and figure everything out. And, like, I don't like rushing. I don't like being late. And my wife's like, you know, she's happy to run to the, what do you call it, the terminal and, like, run to the gate.