Jared Freid & Jordana Abraham: Dating App Burnout? Do THIS 30-Day Challenge to Stop Wasting Time and FINALLY Meet the Right Person

24:13So I think that, I mean, I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open-minded in both directions. Yeah. And I think also, like, we do this all the time. We've talked about this. Where are the single men? And, like, you just said it. I've said this a million times. I don't know. Even as a single man. Like, I'm a man. No, I'm not a single guy. Right. I don't even know where they would be. Like, I actually, it's become, like, kind of a joke on the show of, like, where are these guys? because if there's all these women, but also this dating and relationships is a topic for women.

24:45They get together to talk about this. This is something that men just don't generally get together and talk about. So it might not be as, you know, in the atmosphere for me, you know, like - To that level, right. It's, I think dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women. Just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from, you know, 21 years old is like what their future is and who their husband's going to be and what they're getting. I don't think men are given that pressure. If a man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job.

25:15He's asked about what's going on at work. He's not necessarily most of the time being asked about who he's dating. I think that's a question that women are getting a lot more and that they're much more invested in finding a partner than a lot of men are around, at least men in a similar age group. So wait, Jared, you're saying you don't have lots of single guy friends? No, not at all. That's the thing. Like I'm not rolling with a group. Like when you hear a woman get broken up with, like the first thing that like a lot of their friends do they're like i know these other single women like they'll try and like fix them up with single women to go out with yeah they're like their new miranda carrie you know samantha crew i've never even heard of that for a guy like oh you got to meet my other guy friend and even you were like hey because i moved to delray beach i'm in florida and jordana was like oh my friends live down there do you want to like hang out right do you want a new friend i was like no i don't want a friend i want to go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun you know like i you know like i don't want like and it's weird because that's my initial reaction of course i want friends where are the friendless men right but i have friends but i swear i got friends you know like i sound very defensive i but like i i don't know like i've thought about this like it is the one thing where i'm like the numbers aren't this off yeah but i don't know because i even like my college friends mostly married you know a couple divorces in there.

26:38High school friends, I got a lot of those still mostly married. Yeah. But I don't really, you know, I'm 40, I'm single and we just don't hear from, you know, I know I'm not alone. Yeah, yeah, no. I was talking to a couple of guys I know who are probably, yeah, late days, early 40s as well. And they were single and I sent them a couple of pictures of certain girls that I know that are friends of mine that are looking and, you know, all that kind of stuff. and it was like immediately it was the point that you said immediately he was like nah she's not you know not for me not for me and it was an attraction thing but it was so like instant right whereas a woman will say like tell me more about him totally right yeah and it was also like i wouldn't necessarily say that he was out of her league he just felt he had more choice listen let me well i i'll i'll go back at that let's talk about it right because i don't think that's why men are saying, I have all these choices.

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29:32thanks for taking a moment for that now back to the discussion so like i i think that's something that's easy to like put on single men to like hate on them no so i'm asking i i i would say that i mean i've said this on the show many like guys there's a pro and con there's there's life is gravity right the the the the thing is a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to that's just no no other questions just like your friend that black and white it's that black and white i'm saying attracted or not or is it like i'm a she's i don't know no there's it is men are like bees we see the we see the outline of a woman we go yeah like the idea of like will it matter if i wear you know these types of socks no men don't even notice we just see I'm attracted to that thing.

30:21And so like when a guy says he's like not attracted, not going, that's a good thing because you're not on a – all women can understand that if you're on a date with a guy, if you left the house, you know one thing, he's attracted you. That's a beautiful thing too if you think of it that way. You go, I got one thing out of the way. If I'm on a date with a girl, I don't know why she's there. I don't know if she was forced. She thought she should. If she didn't go, she's not trying. That's a great way of looking at it. You know, like I don't know. I don't know if I could get married to a woman on our wedding day.

30:51She's like, at first, I didn't think he was anything. Isn't that nice? You can get a foot in the door. Right. Well, it's nice and it's bad. I don't want to hear that my wife at first was like, oh. But that happens. Look at the Our Story page for all these women getting married. Well, at first, I wasn't into him. And then he came over to me and he touched me with his clammy hands. And I was like, oh, I guess maybe I'll go on a date. Like it's all this like horrific tale about how this guy like Magood his way into this woman. And it's like, that's nice for her. That's a fun Marvel, you know, story to tell like your, your, you know, your beginning, but like.

31:30Well, I think women are also more like, I can work with this. Right. Even if someone is not, I think women are more open to dating men who aren't exactly the perfect way that they want them to be as soon as they meet them. Yeah, they're like, I can change what they wear and I can. Well, yeah, they can work with this or they cannot. I don't think men are thinking that. And in some ways that makes men more romantic. They're like, if I don't like you just as you are, I'm not going to commit to you. And women are like, if I like the bones, I can work with them. Well, it's that age old idea of men don't want women to change, but they will.

32:04And women want men to change, but they won't. It's that balance of like. Right. Men are just, I mean, like we always hear about like the Disney princess or like how the Disney movies convince women they're going to find a prince charming. And that is very true. There's a male version of that, you know, where men have been told in every coming of age movie that this woman is just going to show up and she's into video games and she's cool and she gets it. every coming of age movie is some chick who's like ah like giving guys crap and like she's like this dream version and you're kind of told and this guy falls in love so you're kind of told that like someone's gonna come along there all of a sudden you're gonna get it yeah and you're gonna want this monogamous lifestyle and you know i don't think either is fair yeah you know and but the looks thing it's everyone has a type everyone's into something there's a butt for every seat i mean i always say this sounds gross but like everyone's someone's foot like there's men out there masturbating to feet you know and they there's so many men masturbating to feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet so but that's why you are someone's foot so ugly is not even like hot or attractive is not even a thing right but i'm I don't think that it's, yeah, it's not like, I don't think the key to doing well in dating is being hot.

33:28I think it is really about your attitude and like, again, how happy you are. I think a happy person and like, again, there's going to, no matter what you look like, there's going to be someone who's attracted to you. But I think if you are, if someone could be attracted to you physically and you could go on the date and you bring a bad attitude and you seem unhappy with your life and you seem unhappy and you seem like you're burnt out just from being there and your feeling is like, he's not, oh, he's not even going to text me again. Like, I think that that is self-sabotaging. But you feel that.

33:55Like, listen, Jordana took my disgusting speech and made it sound a lot better. I, I, it is, you feel that on a date. I go out and a lot of, I've been on dates with women who are like the, I've had it woman. Like, and then you got to like turn into a clown. You got to be like, no, got your, got your, got your, got your ear, like got your nose. Like you have to like try and make them, cheer them up a little bit to like, go, hey, we're going to be on a date that's not going to be disgusting and horrible. Yeah, yeah. You know, so you can feel when someone's like, I've seen it all. Yeah. And it's hard to get out of it.

34:28And even if you feel you have, the point is to have the attitude that you're talking about. Right. Even if you have been in the world. And you can't tell someone to do that. Like, we can talk about it for days. Yeah. But like, you got to figure that out. Well, I think the challenge is, going back to the part about being attractive, we think being attractive means being attractive to everyone. Right. Right. We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot. And the reality is no one feels that way because not everyone's going to find you attractive. No matter how, wherever you are on the spectrum of it or however you feel about it, it's the fact that if someone can go out there, be confident, put the best version of themselves out there, you're giving the person who actually finds you attractive the chance to do that.

35:08We've all met people who are attractive that turned us off with their attitude. Totally. That's like massive. And I think we've met people that were like maybe borderline attracted to, but are seem so happy and so confident and so happy to be there that it makes them more attractive. I think that there's really like, you can't really quantify that, but it definitely, I'm sure it could sway you too. Like someone who you're. Attitude, because attitude is everything. I mean, like you get there and you're like, oh my God. Again, to go back to like the, you know, the coming of age movie, the chick who gets it, you know, you go, oh my God, and she's cool and is fun.

35:42And it's like, you know, you go, oh my God, everything's here as opposed to being on a date where it's like okay you know show me you're not a dick yeah right and you're like okay i've i've seen this before you know like i'm not gonna be the one that because what happens is if someone's miserable on a date you're like if i do make this person happier now i've made promises to them you know now i've you know love bombed them or like and not even i'm not saying you do that to cheer them up but you go now you've like put on a performance myself like i'm performing yeah i'm not even getting to be the real me here because I was just spending the whole time trying to get this person to be happy.

36:20And now I've faked it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, I was going to say, I think that also that attitude thing also helps you once you're in a relationship. I think everyone thinks like, okay, once I like lock it down, then it's over. But relationships are their own level of work. And I think the best relationship advice I've ever seen is that if you look for what's missing from your partner, if you look for what they're not doing, what they could be doing more of, that's going to be the reality that you're living in. If you're looking at what they're doing well, what they do better than everyone else, you're going to feel really lucky and you're going to feel really happy.

36:50So I think attitude just brings you not even when you're single, but once you're in the relationship, once you're working through that, once you're changing into a relationship that's a long-term marriage or just a long-term relationship, I think that's the attitude is something you really need to keep working on and always be trying to be in a place of looking for what's working and looking for what's good, whether it's your own life or your partner. Yeah. I think this alpha male, high value woman conversation on TikTok, Instagram podcast has put this pressure for women to think you've got to look like a model, right?

37:25You've got to look great in these clothes without clothes, whatever, right? There's that pressure for women. And the pressure on men is you better be earning multiple six figures. You better drive an amazing car. You better have a great future. And everyone's looking at both of those things going, I can't live up to either of them. Right. Right. Right. Do you see that? Well, the beauty of being a man is that I don't think I, and this is where I feel lucky is that when it comes to dating, maybe I'm not making that money, but I can, I don't think I have to like do the right thing by other men. Like I never feel judged by other men for how I date.

38:02And I think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, am I doing it right is this the right text is this the right way to go and it's almost like who are you asking who's to say and I think when it comes to those conversations of like you know who we answer to like I'm I don't feel the pressure with relationships you know I can feel it from the other side of like hey what should I wear for a first date you know like when we get that question like they're asking us as if we know we're talking you know like and it's Like, what should we wear for the day? What do you say?

38:35Whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident. And that's, again, to what Jordana said, the diet and exercise of answers. Like, no one wants to hear that. Yeah. Well, but you have women that write in about this and you're like, that comes from a place of like, please tell me I'm doing this right. Right. People want rules. People want like the secret sauce, the formula. And really, it's about you and what works for you. And that's, again, like a less flashy answer. But that's the truth. There's no one way that everyone should act. There's no one kind of person that everyone should be interested in.

39:04It's like about what makes you the best version of yourself and everyone is a different person. Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, that person is screwed. Awful, yeah. There's awful and screwed. They're thinking of the wrong thing. They're thinking of the internet, I think. And that's the issue, I think, with modern dating. And it's why it's so hard to sort of like appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're seeing, you're scrolling all the time and you're seeing someone else's partner, I think of the Pookie and Jet thing, like someone else's partner surprised them with this bag or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates.

39:39And you look at your partner and you're like, where's my crazy date? Where's my like spontaneous surprise trip? And I think that, again, you're not even thinking about it. Is that even something I want? Is that even something that like works for me? You're just constantly comparing. And before you really didn't get that. You didn't get like the behind the scenes of every single couple's highlights of like the best moments that they have together. No one's putting their fights up. No one's putting the like stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet. So you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post and then you kind of kind of get it, go do the back.

40:12That's so true. Yeah. It's like, it's almost like 25 years ago, you spoke to less people. Right. You knew them really deeply. Yes. And today you are exposed to more people, but you know them in a really shallow surface way. And so if you had four friends, you knew who was on the verge of divorce, who was having a tough time because you all opened up and you were helping each other out with their problems. Whereas today you're seeing someone who just took that trip for content. Like it wasn't even a trip, it was content. And they went away and they got this sponsored trip. And now it's like, oh, well, that husband does spontaneous stuff or whatever it may be.

40:47Right. And you think there's something lacking in your relationship when there's not, you're only, again, you're only seeing this one side of it and you don't really know these people that well. You're talking about messaging there and people asking you, what messages should we write? How much are you hearing about people getting ChatGPT to write their messages back? And how are you both feeling? More and more. It's funny because again, this goes back to, I want to be right. I don't want to do this wrong. So let me go to ChatGPT and it will tell me an answer that I don't have to think about it anymore.

41:16Well, listen, I think that there's some merit in ChatGPT and helping as a tool, like anything else. Like, I don't think I don't think you should use it, not even read it and send it. But I think it's like we did an episode where we did, someone writes in their breakup text. They're texting someone after three dates to say they're not interested. And then we have ChadGBT write the same text. ChadGBT is better. Not a bad job. Yeah. It's a little more mature. It's a little well, is it as personal? Probably not. I think you should edit their thing. But I think if it can help people act like a nicer, better member of society or at least give them somewhere to start.

41:52I'm okay with - You're a fan of it for breakups. I wouldn't want to be told to ask for a divorce with ChatGPT, but I think, you know, if they read the first draft and then someone else edited it, I mean - Well, the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of ChatGPT from the minute dating apps started. Listen, when you're texting, you are writing your own script. You are being the person you would like to be. That's not you on the fly. That's not you on improv or in the moment. how many times have you been in a conversation or an argument and then you went home and you go, I wish I'd said that.

42:25I wish I'd had this. You never do that about a text. Text, you go, you say exactly how you want to say it, the way you want to say it. The reality is, and our podcasts, we always say we want to make you a better buyer. We're not going to fix dating. I get put in the position of speaking for men and it sounds very icky. I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling because I'm 10 % away from the guy you're dating. so I'm telling you what's going on in his head it's up to you to like take that information and do the best you can and waste less time yeah so this goes to like the texting and chat gbt and like listen if if you want to blame chat gbt for your relationship problems you're it's just the truth because right now you're texting with someone who's googling the movie that you said you loved yeah or the quote that you said they didn't fully understand right they've been doing that since day one.

43:19Send me a movie quote that makes you laugh every time. If you had none off the top of your head, but you thought they were hot, I'll go find a movie quote. You know, like that's just the, that's just how it's going, you know? So all this is to say like chat GBT or someone Googling what to text you, you got to get in person. Right. Well, you got to have a date. It's like the same, the same advice that we have for the apps. It's like the apps and chat GBT, they're both tools. Should you be exclusively communicating with chat GBT? Should you be exclusively only dating on the apps? No. Is it something you can use when it makes sense?

43:52Yeah. Right. Or at least to help. How quickly have you realistically seen people move from the apps to an in-person date? How quick do you like it to be and how quick is it realistically? I hate when someone's trying to game the app. So if someone matches with me and they go, let's skip the small talk and go on a date. I don't want to date that person. That's my... Because? Because I don't want to waste my time out we're on a dating app because that gets you the first few conversations that make you excited for the day you're trying to verify that right it's a verifying process but when people say that i'm like what's the catch here this was so easy for you to go out how much time how much do you value your day you don't value your day why would i want to go out with you but the problem is someone always is going to come in and go well i hate pen pals yeah but that's not a good answer that's the the answer is nuanced and gray if you're texting for six days before a plan is made yeah that's a lot long that's too long for me too long for you for me but like i don't know what someone needs to feel safe i don't know what someone needs to feel excited you should feel safe and excited that's that's the two rules i would give to someone to go on a first date do you feel safe are you excited yeah and so however long that takes how how long does that take?

45:12That's, that's, that's not up to me to say. That person saw you and felt safe and excited in that moment. Or they wanted to screw me over and steal my, you know, my identity. I don't know. They felt safe and excited but not you. Can you pay for my oil change? Right. We've gotten that. We've gotten that, you know, on and on. We've gotten messages where, you know, the guy says, I'm so excited to, you know, I had such a great time, I'd love to go out again and then the woman replies, me too. Would you mind paying for my oil change? Right. You're going to meet crazies. You know, like this is what happens.

45:43You put yourself out there. You got to play in traffic. You don't want to get hit. And sometimes you get hit by a weirdo. Yeah. You know, so. That's a good story. You know, you've lived. Right. Exactly. It's lived to tell the tale. Yeah, it's a great story to tell. But dating, the idea of like, when should you, how should you, we are not here to say. Like, I think that if anyone's trying to tell you their four rules for dating or, you know, you should never this, I think they're trying to sell a book. Like, you know, we did this to make light and have fun about a subject that dating for some people, they're killing it everywhere else.

46:16And this is the hardest thing in their life. That's crazy. And when I first started talking about dating, like as a guy, I didn't realize the gravity of it for some people. For me, it was always fun. And I mean, that should tell every woman out there. Like every guy is like, they just think it's fun. They don't think it's the most, like it's as serious as maybe you're coming at it. This isn't every conversation they're having. this isn't podcasts they're listening to so again like when i first started doing this you go oh this is like hilarious like oh let me hear your dating problems and then you start meeting people and you're like oh shit like this is like real stuff yeah you know like it is they're doing great in their career their friends their family and then they're like what what's going on here how is this happening yeah so i don't know how are you feeling about jared's dating like how am I feeling yeah what's my problem as is wrong no no maybe not a problem Jared I mean like a lot of the men out there that we talked about earlier like has a lot of options and sometimes I think that's almost like a lot of the issue with today's dating world is that especially for men yeah especially for men who aren't you know successful men right successful high value men oh no don't say no I'm joking but like I'm not I'd like to be doing better please follow me on Instagram I'd like to be doing better.

47:32Yeah. No, I think, I mean, I think people don't want to talk about this because it feels icky and it feels unfair. But I think that women are a lot of the time they're constrained by one societal norms of that they should be, they're more pressured to settle down earlier. And two biological realities is that in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children. And so I think that there's, there is a freedom that men have where they're not constantly thinking about dating against that, that timeframe. And again, it feels like an icky conversation. It feels like something that shouldn't be true, but it is true.

48:03So I think that men do have more options. And in a lot of ways, especially if you're like doing well in your career and you're in a city like New York, let's say. And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed by choice. And men will end things before the next step. You know, men will go, this is okay, but I don't know if I want to go through the work. Like I'll say men, me, I'll speak for myself. I have ended things before the next step because I'm like, is this the next place of like, am I ready for this next phase of life? It's not about the relationship. It's about, do I want to do the work?

48:41Do I want the responsibility? And I have a lot of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships. Like that takes a lot of confidence. It takes a lot of like stress and work that I have gone against. I've said, well, I'm going to put my life into stand-up and comedy and my work, which is an easy excuse for me. It's my avoidance of this next thing of life that first few months of dating, you're all potential. You get past that, you're living in the reality of who you are. I think that's what a lot of men deal with. I'd rather be potential than the reality. and deal with the reality. Is it the reality or is it then commitment?

49:27Commitment is reality. Like commitment, like I think it's commitment to like the broader thing. Like to me, when I think of like the next step in relationship, I'm like, it's everything. It's house, it's family, it's kids. You know, like it gets way farther ahead than maybe women think we're thinking. I hear you on that. Like that resonates with me. It's one of the reasons why we haven't had kids yet was because I was excited to be with my wife to get married. Right. But my career took over and then my wife's career took over. And that was, so it's weird how you can have that at different phases.

50:01Right. So I can relate to what you're saying. Yeah. On the children level, we're like, I want to have kids for sure. But I mean, we've been together now for 12 years and married for nine. And for me, the focus was I'm getting to build and I'm doing what I love. And I don't want to end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to this young, beautiful child that I brought into the world. Right. and I'll do it when I can. And I feel like that's a very, feels like a very masculine trait. And so you're feeling the same. I can, like the way you're talking, I'm like, I can relate to everything you're saying.

50:31It's just, I'm married. That's the only, I've taken on that commitment. I feel good about that one. And we're around the same age. I think like there's good and bad to everything, as we said before. Like our parents, like that may have gotten married young. You go, well, I would never do that for me. And they had kids young. And then we kind of were given the ability to like push those things off yeah and again there's positive to that you get to build your career but then you get to get so precious with your life yeah that you're like almost you become too picky too choosy too totally too precious with doing walking forward and what a lot of men will do like women will break up after they've tried again and again yeah men will break up before the next step and that's why a lot of men have the one that got away i don't you don't hear from women with the one that got away a lot you're from men oh i could have been married to her i could have been married to her we i've said that about many people i've dated and that's why it's like you know it's funny when you see these tiktoks are so angry and so the negativity i talked about in the beginning it's not as personal as it looks the way they're talking about it even though it's personal to them like i know from the male side it's never been that someone's not worth it or not enough or not you know someone that i could have been with it was always my own i was thinking and you know i there's a tony kornheiser's a writer i've heard him say this line the key of me we all live in the key of me you know when you write a story you write it about yourself so it's like i think what a lot of men are going through is the key of me and it's not as personal to the women that are feeling like oh he has so much choice or they're right or i wasn't he thought he could do better he thought he could do better it's all that is always fraudulent to me i've never heard it that well articulated i mean that's really interesting to hear i'm saying i'm a well articulated person my mom says that all the time no no i mean that i mean i don't think i've heard it put that way before and and i can resonate with it so strongly at different ways in my life right i think right it's a very it's an ideology that i get yeah and it's for all levels of life i mean you talk about kids, you know?

52:37Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I think that's just a man's mind is like, yeah, if you talk to me about kids at 30, I would have been so scared. Right. Like I would have just be like, oh my God, I don't think I could be a dad. Right. Like that's how I genuinely felt. Right. Whereas now I'm 37. I was like, I think about kids a lot. Right. That's just a shift that I've been through. Right. In my own mind, you know, where at one point, if you asked me, I would have been like, ah, I'd be fine without them. And now it's like, it's a part of something that I want. And it's such a, whether it's age, maturity, biology, finances, I don't know, but there is a sense of that feeling of, yeah, it's not really about the other person.

53:13I've always known my wife would be like an amazing mom. That's like not even the conversation. Well, we get so many emails that are like, he ended it and I wasn't looking to get married. That's always the response. Women were writing, it's not like I said I wanted to get married. And it's like, it's really, you know, kind of like demeaning towards the men they're dating because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to like think that far ahead. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. This week on a very special episode of Health Discovered, we're taking a closer look at a condition that affects hundreds of thousands of men each year, prostate cancer.

53:57I first found out about my cancer at the age of 45. Anything with cancer, you just think death sentence. In this episode, we'll explore the science behind detection, along with the practical steps men can take to protect their health. Listen to Health Discovered on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app, search Health Discovered, and start listening. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park.

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55:08And back to our episode. I don't know if it's demeaning. I think women are like, why don't you just give this a chance? Right. Why don't we see where it can go? And we don't have to get like, yes. Why don't we like a woman who's dating a man for three months, and he'll break up before they're like in a relationship. And I think there's this frustration of like, I'm not asking you to marry me right and to commit to forever right now. But why can't you keep dating me or like really, really fully commit? I guess it's demeaning to both sides. He's thinking way far ahead. Right. Way farther ahead than she would even imagine.

55:42And he's also not trusting her to be able to be told that like he's ending it. You know, I'm going to. That she'll be okay if they date for three years and then don't get married. Right. Yeah. And so it goes both ways. We're not giving each other enough credit, basically. Right. We're not giving each other enough credit that, oh, wait, he's actually thinking 25 years from now. Right. And we're not trusting that she's confident enough. To handle a breakup. To handle a breakup in five years. Again, both sides of that equation I feel bad for. Like if someone got dumped after five years and never got married, thought they were, I'd be like, yeah, that sucks.

56:16Right. But women have agency too. And I think you see a lot of those stories and you don't get the other side, which is also that like, yeah, if you're dating someone, for five years and you've been looking to get married and they, and, and they're not marrying you, you can leave also at any time. Right. That's the credit you're not giving the woman. Right. Is that like, if you're not giving her what she wants, she can leave. Right. Yeah. Fair. Yeah. It's so, it's so interesting, right? Like what, what you're both doing, which I really appreciate is it's almost like if we were able to verbalize this stuff to the person that we're talking to.

56:46Right. Much harder. It's so much harder, but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart. Like you'd actually be able to hear it and go, wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective. I always have so much joy when a couple says they listen to our podcast together. Because I know what you're saying is so true. This is all easy for us to say from the sidelines. It is so easy for us to say. This is simple. Oh, I can give advice on everyone else's relationship. I know exactly what I should do. when I'm in it, I'm like, I'm a bumbling idiot.

57:21But when I hear a couple listens to our podcast together, I'm like, we're talking for them. Like, it's almost easier to listen than it is to like put these into words. And I'm like, man, they must be doing okay. Like not to give ourselves too much credit, but I don't even think it's - Well, they're having these conversations. And kind of like what we said before is like, I do think when women break up with men, they're like, please change, please change, please change. And then they don't change. And then finally they break up with them. And I think a lot of men are maybe more than women afraid to have a lot of these conversations.

57:49And so are kind of just like secretly thinking about like if they should leave. And then women always feel like they're blindsided. That's true. That's true. Men are thinking about it for six months before they do anything. Yes. And the woman is like, what do you mean? Yeah. And you've done all that. Right. Because any woman that breaks up with her boyfriend will tell you, and I kept asking him not to stop getting drunk. And I kept asking him to stop doing this and this and this. And he just wouldn't change. And I really wanted it to work. and you just don't really hear that from men. No, no, no, no, no.

58:17It just wasn't working. And no one ever asked me after a breakup what happened. Yeah. No one's ever, right, Jordan does. But generally like my male friends, they're just like high-fiving me on the way to a dating app. Yeah. You know, like, and if I had to explain what happened, it would just sound like I just gave up. Yeah. You know, like, which isn't, you know, something I'm proud of, you know, but it's not something I ever have to really deal with. So would you say you're not looking for a long-term committed loving relationship? No, I am. That's crazy. Wait, now you're confusing me. No, I am.

58:52But I'm afraid of it being... What are you afraid about? If I was to be really honest about it, I'm afraid of making my choices someone else's problem. Or are you afraid of making the wrong choice? Right. Also. And then you make the wrong choice. Well, you make the wrong choice with the wrong person. Right. But I do think I know my taste enough at this point to know who I get along with. And again, like I think a lot of guys, I'm not a soulmate guy. I'm not a soulmate. I don't think, I just think you can make it work with like a lot of people. I agree with that. But they all are very similar types, you know, similar type of personality and thinking and worldview, those types of things.

59:32But I do think, you know, I blame standup and doing comedy, you know, and the career I chose, but that's not, you know, that's not a really good reason. But I do think the fear of like, you are someone else has, like, I, if I fail, I fail on my own. Like, that's really easy for me. Like, I can sit at home and bury myself in it. I give a lot of credit to like, you're married and you're starting a business or you're doing things and you got kids that you got to like talk to and they go, what happened? You know, the kids asked what happened. Are you kidding me? I can't even imagine. What happened with the big deal?

1:00:07You know, we didn't get it. Like, what do you say to a kid? I don't know. It's scary. And I think you mentioned something a lot that a lot of men feel but maybe don't articulate is that it is much more, like their ability to commit is a lot more tied to how secure they feel financially, how secure they feel in their careers. I don't think, I think, obviously women care about their careers and how they're doing financially. But I don't think, I think most women will say, I can date in any phase of my career trajectory. I don't need to be established in order to get married. I don't need to be established in order to have children.

1:00:39I think men are much more like, I cannot fully go there unless I feel like I could take care of a family. Right, and if we go back to that high value, douchey conversation, like what makes a guy high value is like career established, safe. Providing. Providing, you know, like in doing okay. I think that's why we talk about dating as vulnerably and as honestly. That's what this is right now. And it feels good. And I think people listening, like when we talk about dating is like, I like when I hear people just say, oh, good. Like I'm not sitting here alone. Yeah. Yeah. Dealing with that. But like, no, a long-term relationship.

1:01:13Yeah. I'm looking for that. But I'm also like, I feel a little delusional even saying that. I was in Australia. I just did shows in Australia and I went to the Great Barrier Reef. I did like the snorkeling. I'm not a snorkeler. I don't know. I was just like, I, they were like, do you want to go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef? And I'm like, how am I going to say no to that? No, I'd like to sit at the hotel and sit on my phone. I have to do this. This is someone's bucket list item. So I took a boat like an hour away. And we got to the reef. And I started snorkeling. And the mask kept coming off my face.

1:01:44And I was miserable. Then they give you all this lube. And they say, put it on your face. So now I got all this Vaseline. They give you all the Vaseline. And they put it on the face. And I finally get the thing on. And I start looking at the fish. And I remember thinking like 10 minutes into this, I'm going, is this it? this is the Great Barrier Reef. And then I'm like, but I'm by myself and I'm like looking at this reef and I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something? You know, like I, and then we got back on the boat and I was just sitting alone on the boat and I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships.

1:02:15Like - Someone to go to the Great Barrier Reef. And say how horrible it was. And go, man, that sucked, right? Like you just want to go, oh my God. Like, and I, again, I'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the Great Barrier Reef. But like, you know, again, like this is old school shit. I'm not saying, I'm not saying anything that Dr. Seuss didn't say. You know, like it's who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about with. And I think I, like I remember after that trip to Australia, I was like, I'm not, I think I told you, I was like, I'm not going. Never going to the Great Barrier Reef alone again.

1:02:48Right, right. I just remember being on that boat, just being like, what the hell am I? I was like, do people like this? Do, I don't know. I think people like that they went with a partner and they were like, that sucked, right? That's how I felt watching Superman last week. I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not. It was the worst movie I've ever seen in my life. You hated it. I hated it. It was so bad. It's that feeling of, I didn't go with my wife, I went with a couple of friends and they hated it too. But then the ratings are through the roof.

1:03:16Right. And everyone else, I don't know anyone, so when you go watch it, tell me about it. I saw it. What did you think? I liked it. Oh, you saw it 3D. I saw it 3D, yeah, yeah. I didn't like 3D. I thought 3D was a waste of money I didn't get any of the comedy I wasn't laughing No I didn't find the dog cute Like I didn't get it The dog got annoying Yeah I just didn't get it I thought the dog got annoying I didn't get it I didn't get the film Are you a Superman fan? Yeah I love Superman You do But like I love the TV version Do you like Smallville? No Smallville is a pretty good show No not Smallville I felt that way It's interesting Jordana I wanted to ask you that With kind of like the opposite end Of what we're talking about with Jared How long have you been married now?

1:03:55Almost four years Okay Okay. Yeah, fine. And what have you, like you've been building a business and the business was fairly established at that point, I imagine. But like, what's that been like for you where almost all the things Jared's afraid of are things you've been doing. What's that like in reality? I think in reality, it's like so much less scary than you think it is. I think the hardest part is like, especially for you, it was like, is the feeling of like finality and commitment. And like, this is it. I'm making a choice. But I think nothing makes you feel like an adult more than like really making a choice.

1:04:28And I think being married is making that choice every day and saying, you know, I'm going to look at the positive aspects of what's going on here. It doesn't mean like constantly being positive or never sharing something that's bothering you. But I think sort of what you were saying is like the magic of marriage is not necessarily all the good stuff that you're sharing together, but being able to like go through life and experience all the lows and all the highs. And then you really have like this full intertwined experience with someone and they help you grow. They help you, you know, if they're the right person for you, they're help, they're supporting you.

1:05:00And I think then for me, what was unique about meeting my husband, as opposed to anyone else I ever dated is I just felt like this full, I felt so safe and so secure that I could build my career and I could go out there and I could like not be hyper-focusing on finding the right person because I felt like I had someone who was supportive and who wanted the best for me and that I could be fully myself with and like self actualize. And I think that you would have that totally too. And of course, someone to make fun of the barrier reef with, you know, yeah. To make fun to like also go through the negative barrier reef as I call it.

1:05:32Yeah. Or to go through like the negative experience or something horrible happens to you and you have someone who's seen that. And they're also, then when things are good, they also, they can appreciate that with you much more. Yeah. Yeah. It was really cool though. because we started this podcast when Jordana was single and also just started dating her husband. So it was funny to like, when in the beginning of this show, like how cool it was to like, it's funny when we first started, like, you know, Jordana asked me questions that are like, so you could tell like, this is kind of about my dating.

1:06:03Like I'm on a third date, you know, like what would you say to someone going on a third date with someone they kind of like, and they think is a good guy, you know, like he listened to the podcast at that time. I think he did. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. That is the weirdest. You have a dating podcast and you're like, the weird part is you're more honest on a podcast than you are, than you can be with the people in your life. Like as that might sound bad, but like you come on here, we're, we're talking, we're, we're chit chatting. And that's the beauty of a podcast. You get to like put in a headphone and just sit and be a fly on the wall.

1:06:36And yeah, there's like, that was a great part of, you know, being early dating and having you, I would basically like, You could be his mouthpiece almost for any fights we got into or anything, and you'd explain the side. And I would get it more because you do have that very unique ability to verbalize what men are thinking or how they're thinking about things. Sometimes you just don't come at things the same way, and that's really the source of most conflict in relationships is just having a totally different framework for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance. And a lot of the times, men and women are thinking about things really differently.

1:07:07Right. Right. And that's kind of been like the frustrating part about like the internet's evolution over the last like seven years of us doing this podcast is like there aren't a lot of male voices, straight male voices in this space. I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back, but like I'm when I come on this podcast, I am I'm telling you exactly how I feel. And it sounds really icky, as I said before, but like this is it. Like, I'm not apologizing for it. I'm just telling you. And like, the podcast has been great because, you know, Jordana has never been like, well, that's just you. You're gross.

1:07:43You know, like, I am gross, but I am speaking. I'm within, I'm not 100 % away from your boyfriend. I'm 10 % away at a max. Most of us are 10 % away from each other. So when we talk about stuff like, and you see on the internet, like there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories you hear about dating from the female side. And it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great. Well, it doesn't feel quite as wholesome as the intentions for women on dating apps. The intentions for women on dating apps is I want to find the love of my life and hold hands when we're buried together dead.

1:08:20And nothing can be better than that. I just like to, like, how do you, you know, that doesn't sound great on the internet and you will find a million voices shouting you down. I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time. And maybe if I meet someone great, like we have so many people that ask about, and this is like, they'll ask about what men write or people write, what they write as what they're looking for. and it'll be like, I'm looking for a long-term relationship. I'm looking for short-term but open to long. Before that option even exists, I would always say men are looking for short-term option for long.

1:08:57That's what all men are looking for. The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else. That's the Disney princess to us. So when we get asked like, oh, they wrote that they're looking for a long-term relationship, but they ended it with me. it's like yeah that is bullshit stop looking at what people you know what they're looking for the only thing you should trust on a dating app is i only want short term because that's them being honest every guy on there is open to long term but you know open to short but hoping for long and they believe it so you're not going to win that battle hey but you said you had long term relationship written there oh you're right i guess we should be together now that's never going to happen.

1:09:40Yeah. And that doesn't sound great. No, of course not. That, yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life. That doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this. It's really interesting when we think about it, even from my perspective, if we're 10 % away, my perspective has been so transformed. And I hear this from men who are married and have kids. And so who are one step ahead of me in that journey. And even for me, getting married was the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time energy and space to do all the things i loved because as a young man all i did was chase women and spend loads of time money and energy on finding the right girl right all of a sudden i got all that time back so when you realize how much very efficient back i have a buddy who's like all of a sudden into baking and i'm like when did this happen he's like i got a wife yeah i like to bake it's like i'm like a better version of myself and every and i was i remember speaking to like a lot of successful men and they were all like the best if you look through history the most successful and happy successful men i'm not just talking about financially just men who are happy and successful it was because they were committed to one woman because they had so much time and energy to right they'll do be and be accepted i don't doubt that no no i'm not i'm not preaching no but i no no no i know you're not yeah because i've heard you talk about your wife on our podcast and you can tell like this is a partnership.

1:11:03You guys are aiming for the same thing. You seem on the same page, just the way you talk about your relationship. And when you see that and feel that you go, yeah, of course that's the better option than single. But then you sit here and you go, man, I haven't really had that. And that's the right answer because you're right. It's not just anyone. Right. It's the person that's mutually working on it with you as well. And it's your point too. You could, I could have been with a lot of different people. Right. I think I could have married a bunch of other people that I dated, but it wouldn't have worked because either I would have lost enthusiasm and energy or they would have.

1:11:37Whereas the only reason why this one's working is because both people are willing to put in that energy and that work and that time in a way that I don't think I would have had for anyone else. And that's the part that you're waiting for and that's important for sure. So I want to go to the final five before we do some segments with you. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum, but I'm going to change it for you guys. I'm going to change it for you guys because I don't want to do that, but we're going to be quick with it. So I'm going to give you a little bit of scenarios.

1:12:12So you've been on a few great dates, but you've, you're always the one initiating. At what point does that stop being their style and start being a sign they're not prioritizing you? As soon as you're turned off by that. Yeah. I think, you know, This is my answer. Try this. If you're in a position, you're always making the plan, and you're turned off by it. First of all, establish I'm turned off. I don't like that I keep making the plan. That's okay to admit. It's okay to say you're turned off. If you don't like making the plan, if you don't mind making the plan, that's also okay. Right. Both are okay.

1:12:47But if you want the person you're texting with to make the plan, and it would make you feel good, send this text. You ready? Hey, I'm really busy today. would love to see you again, make a plan and I'm in. Nice. I like that. There's no other answer to that than a plan. If there's other answers, they're not really looking to go out and hopefully you're turned off by that. Or they're not someone who makes plans and they're not for you. Right. Yeah. Well said. I like great answers. That was very succinct, both of you. That was good. All right. You matched on a dating app. You've had a great conversation, but they haven't responded in two days.

1:13:21How long do you wait before moving on? Feeling it is the answer. so like that person felt it I haven't heard from them in two days okay what are you gonna do about it hey checking in would love to go out make a plan and I'm in right make a plan positive and direction will get you everything you want in life and my with dating if you're honest you will feel dishonesty very quickly be positive hey I've loved chit-chatting with you it's been a couple days I'm around next week make a plan and I'm in. Make a plan and I'm in will set you free. It will truly. That's the one. It's such simple advice. Yeah.

1:14:02But I only give advice that would work on me. What would work on me? If someone I was texting with, but I was just getting the dopamine hit from their text and I didn't want to go out with them. If they were like, hey, make a plan. I'm in time for me to go. Let me put on my hat. I'll be out the door. Yeah. Yeah. And if that doesn't work, if make a plan and I'm in doesn't work, you've saved your own time. You're thrown the ball in their court and now you can move on. Right. Great. How do I navigate jealousy of friends' relationships and milestones when I feel stuck or behind? Remember that your friends are all liars and they're way more unhappy than you think they are.

1:14:41No, they suck. How about that? No, your friends and the jealousy probably comes from a place of you assuming. I think if you went out for lunch with a friend that you'd feel jealous of, you'd feel really different after that lunch. I kind of tend to believe that. I call it that guy mode, FTG mode, where you're like – someone will be like, hey, have you met my friend Tim? And I'm like, FTG right away. And then you meet them and you go, oh, they're a nice person and they're pretty cool. And so I think if you're feeling jealousy towards your friends and their relationships, go for lunch with them.

1:15:13I think that would be like a purposeful move. I have a slightly different take. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, Judith. I think one, I think the feeling of jealousy is really like that's a secondary emotion for what you're really feeling. And maybe what you're really feeling is like a loneliness thing. And I think it's okay to feel that. I think that tells you that's actually great because it gives you direction. You know, you know what you want. So many people have no idea what they want. So I think that's great. I think have lunch with your friends not to see how miserable they are. Or maybe that's maybe they are.

1:15:42Maybe they're miserable or maybe they have a great relationship and you can say, what was it about this person that made them different? You can get inspired by them. I think you can change, like we go back to the beginning of the episode. You can change your attitude. You can feel like more excited and kind of get like a tip from them. I think it's okay to feel jealous. People are so afraid to say, I feel jealous. And I don't know why it feels like a very icky emotion, but I think it's okay to feel jealous. Like jealousy is like, I know what I want. I want that. Now I can like really work to figure out how to get it.

1:16:14All right. Good answers. All right. All right. This one. this person's not overly impressive to me, but they're loyal and kind. Do I stay or do I go? I just always think of these things. Would I want that person saying that about me at our wedding? And I wouldn't want to be with that person. I don't want to be with someone who pities me, someone who doesn't think. And again, if you're thinking they're not overly impressive, then you're probably very caught up on what other people think of your partner. And that's probably more of a message to you than it is to how they should be. So maybe you have to go and kind of like work that out.

1:16:53And why are you thinking that way about your partner? And you should, I would want them to end it with me. I'd be like, I don't want to be thought of like a dog. Loyal. That's how you talk about the dog. Right. I mean, I do agree. I think that like, I would ask myself, what does overly impressive mean to me? And what is that adding to my life? And then, I mean, like, again, I think part of dating, especially as you get older, is like figuring out what actually matters. And some people call that settling. And I think other people call that prioritizing what's actually important. So I think I would dig deeper into overly impressive, what that means to me, why I'm so interested in it, and what I think that's going to bring to a partnership.

1:17:37Yeah, well said. All right, fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, but I'm going to apply it to dating and relationships. If you could create one dating law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Every time you say you're confused about something, exchange the word confused for turned off. So I'm confused they haven't texted me back. I'm turned off that they haven't texted me back. That's a great answer. And being turned off doesn't mean it's over. It's something to communicate to the person you're dating. and that's an easy text to send from outside it's not easy to say on the inside but to say to someone hey i'm a little turned off that you haven't texted me back since our date and that's all you have to say because again i only give advice that works on me anytime a woman has told me i've they've been turned off by me it has motivated me take you impressed then motivated motivated me to like do either end it or be better yeah motivate you to some action make a move to action make a move so so anytime someone says they're confused about something i've noticed that that's just their way of not telling us that they're turned off yes so take confused switch with turned off and then communicate that great advice jordana finish this one i think when my mistake i used to make in dating especially before starting this podcast is wanting to be the person that someone likes and so like not stating your own needs in an effort to get the widest reach of people who are interested in you.

1:19:11But what I've learned is that when you express your needs, you save your own time and you find the better match for you sooner because your needs are your needs. There's no such thing as a wrong need or a right need. It's what works for you. And the sooner you ask or express your need, the sooner you find out if someone's going to meet it and the more time you save on your own. That's tough. Jordana, Jared, you guys are the best. Great advice. Great insight. Anyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you subscribe to You Up if you haven't already. Make sure you cut this into all your clips for TikTok, for Instagram.

1:19:40Tag all three of us. I love seeing the stuff that resonates with you, the stuff that turned you off, the stuff that brought you to life, the things that you're practicing. I want to know who's doing the challenge with Jared. It's helpful and it'll make you feel, you'll feel refreshed very quickly. I will say that. You could do the challenge in a relationship. you're just you know putting you're are you doing it too I'm being more social okay alright I didn't realize I like the dinner one yeah make a plan with a couple it really does yeah it changes it it changes things get off your phone this challenge is get off your phone it's a little bit yeah when I'm with someone else I'm off my phone I love it Jodana Jared you're the best I hope you come back soon thank you so much you guys are awesome I really hope you'll come back again we've got lots more to talk about next time but I would have kept you here for another hour if I could have so I'm so grateful Thank you so much.

1:20:28You guys are awesome. You're the best, man. We really appreciate it. This is so great. Thank you so much for having us. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given.

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