Jay Sean: Master This Skill to Unblock Your Potential & Get to the Next Level in Your Creative Process

36:18I'm not built that way. That's not how I make music. Amazing. Hats off to the people who can write hits like that. That's not how I make music. I feel, I feel, and I smile and I jump up and down in the studio when that song is done. And if I'm feeling like that, my, the one thing, the rule I have is after I've written a song, if I am not so excited, regardless of what time it is, it could be four in the morning. I could have had a 20 hour day. if I'm not excited enough to go behind that mic bro and sing that song right there that second it ain't it if I can say I'll wait till tomorrow then that means my fans can go I'll wait till tomorrow to hear it you understand they have options and the thing is I go off of that excitement so when dance with you happened I had met Rishi Rich who really you know is responsible for this just everything from the beginning of the genesis of my career our work together he heard something in me he knew I rapped he knew I sang and what I had developed was a style of blending the two so I would fast rap and sing but sing it with a melody so because the rapper in me was so alive I didn't approach the beat the way that I would say perhaps if I was just a singer so i actually wrote it as a rap so girl whatever told you be thinking of all the possible lyrical ways to come and approach you and so then i'd write those lyrics down but then i put a melody girl whatever told you but they get a lot of the possible lyrical ways to come and approach you and it was something that i don't think many people had heard before but it was my style and had there been like a suit in the room like an a and r he would have gone you're way too fast i don't know what you're saying slow it down too many words this doesn't work who does this have Have you seen, give me an example of someone who's had success with a song like this, with a verse like that.

38:13That's exactly why you should do it. That's exactly why I did it. It's because it's new, because it was fresh and because it was, it was me, bro. It's me, you know? So when that landed on that song, I think a lot of the Asian kids in England growing up, if you're growing up in England, you're listening to, you know, probably R &B and hip hop, which is very common for us. at the time that was the culture very yeah right that was kind of what we were into and then your mom's watching some indian drama or some indian sharuk movie yeah so you got bollywood so you got like beautiful hindi melodies going on in the background and if you're punjabi like me you're going to weddings and they're playing pangra and punjabi music and it's upbeat those were all of my musical influences so when i was in that room it was not foreign or weird or even contrived for Rishi and I to have first of all when Rishi put that Indian flute to me I wasn't like oh that's Indian I was like damn that's sick that's a sick sample that sounds amazing over a hip-hop beat pop R &B chords it was something brand new but it was something it was all the music that we listened to in one pot yeah it wasn't like it wasn't like we're trying to create a new genre yeah we created a new genre by accident yeah because it was just the stuff that we were into so then when we did that um had written that song originally kind of left it there uh rishi was working with jaggy d um obviously a punjabi artist he heard it he was like this is sick jump on it bruv yeah he did his thing before you knew it we had a song that no one had ever heard and guess what the people the asian culture at that time had all of their favorite music on one song you had Punjabi you had hip-hop and you had R &B and you had this whole thing in one in three minutes of one song and for the first time ever I think by three at that time young dudes because if you were like listening to Punjabi music they were like uncle ages do you know what I mean you're listening to like exactly and you're listening like but he's like 50 all of a sudden you've got these young girls and guys who are listening to people who look like them yeah yeah doing their stuff and that kind of i think was something that was brand new and it it just changed the game man yeah no i i agree with that even when you see that new artists like i remember yeah the first time i ever heard a drake song right right like early mixtapes like you were like who's this guy who can sing and rap and do his own thing now i know that today like you know drake's gone on to just do hit after hit after hit and all the rest of it and i think sometimes he gets a hard time where people are like oh yeah he just makes good and i'm like well if you think about it when he started he was probably the only like real rapper that also did that like was able to mix the two and i've always i've always loved his music but to me as well it was that same thing where it's like he was putting together two things that felt natural to him in his own way like he could sing really high notes and then put in like a a rap verse and go hard on a beat yeah exactly he could do both yeah and it was just exciting To me, it's always been exciting when people are not kind of imprisoned and limited by a box.

41:34And it's what you're saying about even the entrepreneur and the musician in you and allowing yourself. Like, I think today we've become so much better at recognizing that people are multi-hyphenates. Like, you know that Rihanna can have a music career and be a fashion icon. Exactly. You know that an actress can also have an amazing company. Right. You know that. Exactly. Ryan Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or whatever it may be But you know there's so many different ways of doing that He can own a football team Exactly But in the beginning it was like no you're an actor Just be an actor Honor that Do that And sometimes Oh actually you do this role You're only doing comedies And then an actor could be like Dude I know I'm good at comedy But like give me a drama man At least give me a shot Show me Let me show those skills Right Yeah So for me it was always like okay i'll do music but like don't tell me i can only do these records i can only sing these kind of songs i can only you know sing i can't bust into a rap randomly so i was so that always confused me because i was like hold on a second this is my artistic expression so surely it should just be why do why aren't i just allowed to do who i am because otherwise then it's not jay sean it's jay with other people in his ear then it's not just drake is drake with other people in his ear so i think the reason why people fall in love with an artist is because that person has something unique to share with the world right you know like if you're in a certain mood you're gonna be like man i don't know man i feel like i put on some adele right now or something why because you know what Adele offers you know what her music how it makes you feel yeah yeah as opposed to just a random singer who's got a beautiful voice yeah absolutely yeah no you reminded me of uh when Matthew McConaughey came on the podcast he talked about how he was known as the rom-com guy so he was doing how to lose a guy in 10 days he was doing all those types of movies and he was amazing at it it was like ghosts of girlfriends passed and like he was that guy he was like the hot heartthrob that you know that that holds those movies and he said he had to take a two-year break from making movies to shift his brand to be able to do movies like the lincoln lawyer later on dallas bias club which he won the award for and it's like he literally didn't make movies for two years and he was getting paid like 15 million to do a rom-com right and he said for two years he didn't do anything because that was his brand and he wanted to do more serious roles he wanted to do roles that he cared about and and it took him saying no for two years and that's a lot of like you know it is it's it's it's amazing to think that people who've made pivots in their career have had to kind of have these very like interesting transition periods yeah what was it like what's the biggest difference between the uk and the us music scene because i think you have that you know you have that as a unique experience there's a few of you right there's you and then like more recently obviously people like ed sheeran adele like there's there's few people who've been able to be successful in both i'll tell you a funny thing right so obviously at the time pre 2009 i was lucky enough to have garnered myself a worldwide fan base excluding i thought excluding america i just thought there's no way america knows my music and that's because america has let's be honest they have the creme de la creme of everything if you think of any of the biggest stars they're usually american whether they're hollywood stars you know now they're all canadian right now they're all from specifically toronto so beaver right but at the time so when we're in that's why when we were in london london is a small island and so what happens is sometimes you can get i i refer to it as small island syndrome you can walk around your little place and feel like the the big shot you know yeah man i'm a dagganum bruv people know me in here mate yeah I'm Lester, bruv.

45:31People know me here. Boy, I got Scotland, man. People know me in Scotland, bruv. Okay, cool. That's amazing and great. And if you can have a career there and you're happy with that, that's great. I always, again, going back to me being a person who's highly driven, I would always say, take me somewhere where no one knows me. I want to win them over. Take me somewhere. Take me anywhere where nobody knows me and let me see if I can win them over. and that has always been something that's very dear to me even when it comes to shows any show like you could do a corporate gig right and they have it and it's like people be like oh they want you for this show i'll be okay cool what's the demographic this is xyz i don't then think okay i'm just gonna sing xyz song i go how can i connect with them what what am i gonna be able to on what level and then win them over so that then they they can go you know what i didn't actually know jay sean before or even like his music but i like the dude yeah i like the guy i connected with him and he was fun on stage and he was funny and he was endearing and then he actually rocked the crowd and now all of a sudden you won him over yeah yeah so when it came to america i took that same approach i was i remember distinctly being at passport control and i was going to go and sign with cash money that's why i was going over there and it was a big day for me and i was super excited i was like i can't believe this man i'm about to get a record deal in america but i went knowing that if i don't succeed at least i have everything else that i've worked hard for and if i do succeed man that's only a bonus now that's gonna only be even better but i'm excited i'm a bit gassed up right so i'm there Of course, man.

47:15This is like Little Wayne. It's like, oh my gosh. Big deal. Young Money Cash Money Records. It's like, yeah. Right. So then I'm there at Passport Control. And the guy goes, you know how they are in America. Sometimes they're like, what is the purpose of your visit? Oh gosh, I still get it every time. You get nervous, innit? I get so nervous, man. I've had so many years of that. And he's like, what is the purpose of your visit to the United States? I was like, so here's me now. I look slightly cocky. I go, be honest with you, mate. about to sign a big record deal and he goes yeah he goes what's your name and i go jay sean and he goes i haven't heard of you so now i know i've got work to do right on my entry to this country the good lord has gone relax mate calm your ego there's work to be done and it was through that one guy that immigration officer who looked me dead in the eye and said so what i haven't heard to you and i thought all right let's do this yeah let's work let's work it's always the immigration officers that don't recognize anyone man i get the same thing every time the best but i love that and bro it you it it humbled me in a split second and i'm not saying i had a big head either but if i was to be cocky about my venture in the united states i learned right there and then bro prove yourself again and that's what i had to do from scratch yeah yeah and it's such a great mindset to have because you could have had that interaction and gone well you should know me right you you could do that or you will know yeah you will get cocky right yeah you will know and and it's just it's so interesting because i feel like that is just never a satisfying way to live that's what i've discovered like the the idea of thinking you're at the top of the mountain or that you're doing things it's the same thing as you said earlier like when you're making music from love, passion and excitement.

49:07I feel like if you're doing something because of revenge, because of proving someone wrong, because of I'll show you, because I'll see you at the top. Like when you do things with that energy, even if and when you make it, it never fulfills you because that person may not have the reaction you want them to have. In the first place. That person would still be like, yeah, I don't listen to music or I don't like your music. Or when you go up to that guy and go, oh wait, did you hear me now? I'm number one billboard. and they go yeah my girlfriend didn't like it exactly it's like yeah it still doesn't it won't feel you bro and it's a very very good point and i think that it's it's such an important point because for me 20 years of work okay what have i learned what are my lessons i've been around the world we were calculating this i'm coming up to a million miles just on one airline wow just on one airline wow so i've definitely done way more must have been around the world 50 times at least 50 in terms of mileage yeah easily that means i have had experiences after experience after experience after experience after experience some amazing some horrible some that can make you feel like you're on top of the world and some that can pull you into a dark place and you don't even want to talk to anyone depressed crying so where's that safe place where's the place where you're just okay man i'm all right with this i'm in this industry and it can either make me or break me or it can do neither or i can just have a great time while i'm here make people happy do that i love take care of my family earn a good living and it all comes down to exactly what you just said why are you doing this if i was for the rest of my career only driven to write songs and perform and record to beat the big monster that is down if that was my only incentive gotta beat down gotta beat down gotta i gotta top that i am setting myself up for failure a and definitely a ton of anxiety a ton of like bad feelings and and and feelings that just aren't on a vibe at all because i'm doing it all for the wrong reasons if i then go if i switch my mentality and go man how lucky were you how blessed were you to be able to have written that beautiful unicorn of a song that makes so many people happy that really did break a lot of records and changed your life gave you a life and gave you a life put that in your back pocket and be grateful and say thank you that was wicked that was amazing now let's go on and write stuff that you enjoy that you love that perhaps your fans might connect to and but if i was to make the metric of my happiness chart positions comments likes followers i'm setting myself up for failure because i can't control any of those things at all the only thing i can control is the music that i write the music that i record the music i put into this world the way i interact with people when i'm on stage and make them feel those are the things i can control and so therefore my happiness hopefully will be in a safe place you know because i'm not pinning it i'm not rooting it in something that is so out of my control there's this quote that i heard that someone said that you know at one point i had to stop being a hit machine and go back to being an artist and and i love that idea but i feel every artist goes through this series of phases where you start as a pure artist you start with pure creativity and pure passion and then in the scaling of a business of having team members or whatever it is you become a hit machine you kind of try and like you said you try and like mathematically figure out the equation you may kind of have some hits you may not have some hits but you have this and either way whether you've had hits or whether you haven't you become unfulfilled and that's what happens so externally even if this person is having all the number ones they're still feeling internally fulfilled because it doesn't link back to that pure artistry that they started why you started doing it.

53:29And then they try to go back there. Everyone goes back there. Everyone wants to go back there. Some people take 30 years. Some people do it in three years. I've met people at both ends of the spectrum who they made stuff they hated for 30 years. Some people gave up after three years and said, you know what? I'm going back to doing what I love. And it's normal. Like it's normal for everyone to have that. So true. It's so wonderful to hear you talk about it in that way because I think that we had Rick Rubin here a few months ago and he was saying the same thing. He was just like, he was saying the same thing you said.

54:01He was like, we're not, music isn't made formulaically. Like he was like, you're not trying to think what people are going to love and so I'm going to make it. And you know, to hear that across artists and musicians, different genres, different backgrounds, it speaks to a lot. When was your darkest time or when was a moment where you felt like you'd, you were just, this is not, yeah. You know, it's so true. Everything you're saying. Artists, we are, we exist in one of two states we're either you can't mess with me i'm best or i suck everyone hates me i'm the worst i should quit i can relate in between the hardest place to be is i'm all right yeah i'm gonna i guess i'm an all right artist who who wants to be i'm an all right artist nobody how's it going oh it's all right man fuck off nobody wants that so if you're not killing it you're here you're i suck i should quit nobody likes me people aren't listening to my music they're listening that person's music so of course i've had those moments not only have i had them epically in one particular point in my life my whole journey man has been like it's been like the rocky story which is why i'm so obsessed with rocky i love rocky love rocky bro the slide docs out i haven't started oh man i watched it it's incredible i'm also obsessed with sylvester stallone dude that dude he's he's so smart and i watched the i watched it i'm not going to ruin it for you but one thing i've always known for about sylvester stallone is that this guy bet on himself that's the story we know he bet on himself didn't get cast in movies because of the way he looked the way he spoke so what did he do he wrote roles for himself what an amazing what a genius thing to do go you're not gonna cast me fine and he bet on himself with rocky but he didn't win immediately in rocky but what what that story tells me is here's a guy here's a guy a bum just a dude that no one pays attention to but he's he's still a human being he he symbolizes your average Joe your average Joe who the world ain't really looking at they don't really stop to notice him but he has a secret dream he has a little dream inside of him you know I mean and then when he gets that opportunity he goes for it because he's got a nothing to lose but b he's all hot he's all hot and he's doing it from a place of love he doesn't necessarily need that belt he just loves a the game and b I can't believe I got this opportunity man I'm gonna take this I'm gonna take it with both my hands I'm not gonna let go but then the rocky saga the storyline continues the rise and then the fall and that's why he's to me he's such a great writer is because I think he was simultaneously writing about what was going on in his life from nobody to becoming the biggest star in Hollywood to then maybe getting caught up in the game losing your roots oh now I'm not even speaking the same way I don't walk the same way talk the same way I don't write the same way because now I'm a star and people are looking at me expecting different things and my career was like that when I started off I just wrote from the heart man I wrote because Jay Rishi Rich and Juggie D are coming through on a song who says that why are you calling your own names out on a song most songs are just like hey girl saw you from the last time we it's an imaginary story about something now that you call it out yeah this guy thinks it's okay on his first ever song to go part of the song it's not the intro part it's not like that yo it's yeah it's not it's not that part it's it's the verse it's the verse why young cockiness fresh fun not even thinking about it not studying other songs going well what are the what kind of lyrics do they write What are the big hits?

57:54I did it. And it connected and it felt right. And it worked. First album. I mean, you're familiar with Me Against Myself. All of them, yeah. I remember buying Me Against Myself on CD. There you go. Because I was so excited to look at the art. Yeah. And I loved the idea because on the last track, you had to wait like a few minutes and fast forward it to wait for like bonus material. I love those kind of like hidden things. Like, yeah, massive. Yeah. This is Jay Shetty from On Purpose. and if you've ever felt like you've lost touch with yourself, try changing your surroundings, even for just a few days.

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1:00:42Let's face it, we're all on journeys to better ourselves. no matter where they are, on the road to better health. With thousands of supplements for every age and health concern, organic food, eco-friendly products for your home, natural pet food, clean beauty and personal care, fitness essentials, if you're looking for tools to get you where you want to be on your journey, Vitacost has them. And for you right now, as a listener of On Purpose, you can use the code J20 to get 20 % off your first order. simply visit vitacost.com forward slash j and start saving today vitacost.com experience the power of wellness for everyone so me against myself why was it even called me against myself it was called me against myself because bro in all honesty truth be told from the beginning of my career I have been in this little bubble where I have been fighting myself the whole time the rapper versus the singer the R &B guy versus the pop guy it's always been this duality of who is actually keeping it real and who's the one making the money and you know up on the stages and are they the same person because the guy who's keeping it real was the rapper he was the guy who was like yo you sold out you're writing these fictional songs about hey baby girl this baby girl that and on the song me against myself it's literally the rapper verse of the singer and the other part of this whole thing was it was me against everyone else in the music industry because at the time when i started i didn't really know it know it and you know but now we look back I was really out there by myself as the only Asian kid in a sea of and we're talking like with the mainstream artists now and 20 years ago even more so 20 years ago and it was only until I sort of really started coming across situations where I realized I am the odd one out I am the fish out of water here I'm the one that doesn't look like anybody else it was very different and you know for me I felt like at that point the only thing that was going to get me through all of this was by staying true to who I am right so there's this you know song I wrote called good enough so what I would do is I would instead of screaming about it on interviews and ranting on about it and complaining about how difficult it is trying to break through and not having the same opportunities as other artists i used to disguise my songs my love songs i used to i used to write open letters to the music industry and disguise them as love songs so there's a song on my first album on me against myself um called good enough and in the lyrics you think he's talking about a girl who's not the same race as her so like he's dating a girl from a different race but it's actually a letter open letter to the music industry and it says it says i've got my mother's skin i've got my father's eyes that's something that i can't deny and that's nothing that i want to hide and even though my roots come from the other side they told me that they won't mind because i heard that love is blind and then it says how do i change a million minds in this lifetime what is it i have to do if i erase my history what defines me if i had to change my truth would i be good enough for you and really it was about me talking to the music industry yeah saying like i'm just like you why are you giving me a harder time man listen to my music tell me if it fits in where it should fit in so but when all that stuff started to happen i went in a bit of a it was hard for me i went into like a little bit of a a dark place because i was like this ain't this is meant to be fun this is meant to be my dream and and now like i'm not getting the same opportunities and and i didn't know what to do about that you know when my first album when they tried to take me on to the second album at virgin i realized that these people don't understand me they don't understand my vision my art i'm gonna go step out so any money that i had earned off that first album and touring i invested in myself like like sylvester stallone yeah and that's where i did the my own way album of course why it's called my own way on that album i remember leaving virgin and at the time being told don't worry you're gonna get another record deal you know you've got all the success you've got these chart hits of course you're gonna get signed immediately i was like yeah okay good i'll get signed to a label that understands me didn't happen didn't happen and now i'm like well i had like four years in the game that's it maybe i should have stayed with virgin Who else gets a major record deal and then walks away from it?

1:05:37And then I had to talk to my parents, tell them the situation. I've just given up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one album out, toured the world a little bit. Didn't really smash it though, did I? Like for the Indians around the world, yes, I smashed it. Course, they were like the first guy, our guy. But in terms of mainstream, they were kind of like, oh yeah, that guy had a couple of songs. so i remember being lost really lost and uh i pretended actually to my parents that i was off to the studio working on a new album and there were times where i would get in my car and i would drive around park up somewhere and literally sit down in my car and go and cry on your own on my and just cry because I was so lost and so scared here's a guy who had all the big dreams in the world a guy who worked so hard at school two degrees I had to just really just sit there and think about there has to be a reason there has to be a reason that this gift was given to me that this blessing was given to me to be able to try to fly the flag for us what do I do I can't just end here.

1:06:54Amazingly, as the universe would have it, about two weeks later, there was this event where I was in doing like a meet and greet. And this kid comes up to me and he's about 16, 17 at the time, hands me a CD. And he goes, hey, man, I'm such a big fan. I make music. Please listen to it if you can. My contact details are on there. So yeah, cool, man. Now, look, when this happens, as you know, like sometimes we're like, yeah, bro, cool. But sometimes you get 100 CDs. You don't get to listen to them all on the way home put it in the car listening to it

1:07:32i'm like like this beat is insane and i was like holy i'm calling this guy straight away i picked him up picked up the phone i was like where do you live where's your studio he's like jay sean he's like yeah he's like bro come on i was like no i'm coming over now to your studio and he had a studio in his garden shed in slough he had a studio in his garden shed in slough and this is a fan of mine and i said we're gonna work he's like dude come on i was like i'm serious and it was just me and him and on that day i wrote write it with this kid who had just given me a demo cd that's amazing he had a dream he had a lofty dream he didn't know that i was also in a place in my life where i needed i needed something he needed something and i needed something we both wanted to win and that song was just sent bro and it changed everything that song obviously is as you know i mean i was about to say lives on and on tiktok that that song has had so many lives yeah and so many edits and so many like it's insane it's crazy yeah but i and without have getting too heavy on the spiritual shit about it i think it's because there is something special about that song i think it's because that song it's very genesis came from a place of where i was at my lowest and needed so badly to be plucked out of this dark place and i needed something from up here man i needed something to lift me up and that song not only just did that for me it's kind of like a sacred song for me you know and it gave this kid a life it gave him an entire career one song and then fast forward 12 years later it goes and gives another guy a life some random dude in lithuania who's just like done a remix and put it on youtube and then it goes on tiktok this guy is now touring the world do you know what i mean and it also like you know did pretty good for me during pandemic yeah a little nice little pocket change for me too and And it was like, you know, it's special.

1:09:44So there you go. That was my Rocky story, right? Then boom, down here in the dumps, back up. Now Ride It's out, Jay Sean version two's out, shaved head, right? The spikes are gone, the shaved head. And all of a sudden, man, I got another shot at it. The reason why I love hearing it is because I remember, like, I remember trying to figure out what had happened between the two albums too. And I remember like, as your fans were following, it was like, I can't remember. but it was like, was it relentless or reckless? Yeah, relentless. Relentless, right? It was relentless. And it was like, yeah, you were seeing that shift and you never know what's going on on the other side.

1:10:18The best part about that story though is the randomness and allowing the randomness because I think so often as you become more successful, you become more closed and you become more, oh, you're just a little kid, what do you have? And that ego, we've talked about ego a few times in this conversation. it just shows me again and again and again the thing that gets in all of our ways is our ego ego stops you from being creative because you're scared of what your friends will think that's ego ego stops you when you start thinking you're the man getting into america and if you would have acted in that way back at that guy but you you were like no no i'm gonna get better i need more i need to get more people to know my work and then ego again could have stopped you from going oh he's little kid what does he know i'm jay shawon like he's just everyone gives me cds right and it's so interesting just how we have to work against our ego constantly and me against myself in and of itself is actually us against our ego on a daily basis that's the real battle the real battle is us against our ego it really is it's it's so true man i i think i think all of that ties in also bro to just keeping, not just keeping your eyes open, right, but keeping your mind open.

1:11:32And the thing is, I always look at it like this, man. Self-awareness is obviously something that you, of course, talk about a lot. And some people go their whole life, man. Not being self-aware. Okay, their whole life. I think very fortunately for myself, I got it quite early on once I started this career. I kind of understood, again, just like standing out as the only brown dude. I was very self-aware, understood. also understanding that when I came across those problems and those obstacles I realized very quickly that my sense of humor was able to get me out of them rather than letting it destroy me so rather than letting me go when someone says something dumb or something stupid or insensitive or culturally inappropriate instead of getting mad and causing an argument I would use wit and intelligence to be able to get myself out of it then I realized what kind of person I was in this industry that I'm in.

1:12:23And this industry, you know, as you know, it can be very, very fake. It can be very, it's hard to find connections with certain people. But if you know who you are in that space, I think you're gonna just, you'll be okay through the highs and through the lows. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I love that you recognize that because it's very true. If I wasn't open to the randomness and I wasn't open to the signs. You just miss out. I would have missed. And I think about that, right? Like I think we all have to reflect on our own life and go, where do we miss out on that randomness?

1:12:58Because we've started to think that things have to be formulaic or equations or perfectly fitting or coming from the right source. Like sometimes, you know, right? Like we always think, oh yeah, that business person will tell me the right thing. Or that individual. And it's like, well, no, they could be some random person in your family or your friends group who says one thing to you that actually shoots you off in an amazing direction. I'm going to give a shout. Me and Jeremy had a call like this recently. So Jeremy said to me, he goes to me. He said to me, I called him randomly. I was on a drive and I hadn't caught up with him for a while.

1:13:37So I'll call up Jeremy. And we start having this phone call and I had no agenda. There was no plan. It was just catching up with your mate. And he said to me randomly, because Jay, I can't wait till you start a school. And I was like, dude, what are you talking about? That's a very Jeremy thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like a huge dream. And I was like, first of all, Jeremy, I don't have kids. So I don't even know what school feels like for kids. Second of all, I feel really unqualified to start a school. I think it's actually very, there needs to be a lot of research. There needs to be a lot of understanding.

1:14:07Like dealing with kids' minds should be dealt with extremely delicately and thoughtfully. I don't think everyone should start schools. Thirdly, like, sure, it's a nice idea, but like, it's so, like, I wouldn't, I've never even thought of that as even a concept in my life. But I answered all of that and then immediately something came to my mind. I'd love to go and study the best schools on the planet. And I was like, I would love to actually go and understand, not because I want to start a school, but because I would love to understand the human mind and what we're messing up that's creating kids who cause issues in the world versus kids that get it right now there's lots of studies and research right but i would actually love to go and sit with parents and teachers and i came back to my team the next day i was like guys i have to go and do this and we have to document it and we have to because not because i think there's content in it not because i don't even know what i do with it i just know that i would be fascinated yeah if over the next five years i could understand more deeply right how to build more compassionate children not because i want to start a school not because i think that thought wasn't even in your head until this random conversation this random conversation that my mate just said you know i could be like what does jeremy know right right i've got content you know i've got stuff going on right you know he's nice he thinks he wants me to start a school but like that's it but really it sparked like genuinely i can't tell you how much that idea is like you are captivated right because i'm like yeah you know i'd love to know how we build compassionate empowered confident children who change the world i would love to understand that on a very deep, intimate and personal level.

1:15:41And so I started researching like, where are the best schools in the world? Like, what are the schools that make the most creative kids? What are the schools that make the most this kids? So I'm like, oh, I've got to go to this school in Spain. I've got to go to this. And I was like, amazing travel now feels alive again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like, oh, I've got to jump on a plane to do some work. It's like, and it's for a purpose and it's something fun. And I think really what you're onto there, bro, is it's very easy to like sort of become complacent as well. Like you go, this is what I do.

1:16:06Oh, great. Studio at this time, I write a song. Great Blah blah blah When do you find out If we've got If we're lucky enough To have another 40-50 years On this earth Right What's going to light us up That whole journey And I think about that Constantly If I've already done this much I've been lucky enough Blessed enough To have 20 years In the music industry What am I going to do For the rest of my life What's going to light me up What Are I just going to retire Are I just going to sit there Lovely I've got my kids I've got my family That's lovely it's beautiful but i'm not like that i'm i need something to fire me up yeah do you know i mean which is like i said why i did this thing all these different companies that that i've created but the biggest thing now that really lights me up jay is seeing what's happening with this new generation of asian artists i was about to ask you it really is it's crazy man i i am as you probably know haven't done an album for a long time okay a lot of people are yeah man when are you gonna do another album and you know what my answer always was there's what i said honestly is what i used to say nobody cares about an album anymore they just want music content if he let's say your favorite ice let's just say drake for example let's just say you're waiting for a drake album and it's like all right guys i'm gonna be back in three years i'm gonna just work really hard on this in this day and age that we're in with our attention spans ain't no one waiting three years bro no one's which is why he could churn one out a year clearly but that's drake um but people don't want to wait around so i used to just said i said forget album that model is old it's an old notion i'll just keep giving you music i'll just keep putting putting it up it's on my spotify it's on my apple music and i did that consistently for years and through doing that I sort of like you know just spend a lot of time on these streaming platforms I started discovering all this music which to me was reminiscent of what me Rishi and Jaggi were doing 20 years ago so all of a sudden you had these kids from India singing in Punjabi but they're singing over like a drill beat and there's like an English vocal on there from some random artists and I was like this fusion stuff is happening again except this time it's happening with these 20 year old kids who are living in india who have basically grown up with access to the internet from the moment they're born they got this device so yeah of course they listen to bollywood and they listen to all this stuff but they're also listening to travis scott yeah and they're listening to you know rihanna whatever it is so that was us 20 years ago and i when i tell you something happened inside me it just started bubbling i was like i need to get in front of these kids i need to soak up their energy it's that youthful energy that excitement because they're not jaded yeah they're not they haven't even stepped into the industry yet they're just kids having fun that's who i was 20 years ago and it lit me up and i said to jeremy and of course it was the best news he ever heard i was like jeremy that's it decided man he's like you're what an album i was like yep and we're going to India that's where we're doing it he's like great I've never been to India I was like oh this is gonna be fun for you bro so we did we went to India this year and I recorded three quarters of my album in India with these guys these immensely talented kids whose faces were just lit up from music there was no journey yeah they hadn't even been on a journey yet there were no obstacles there was no problems there were no highs and lows it was just love for music and this album for me now but i'm so excited about it because again it came from a place of joy and excitement you know i mean yeah yeah yeah and it's so it's so interesting how like even that with the going back to your rocky story example there's rocky five where he trains tommy gun yeah and it's like that whole feeling of he gets his enthusiasm back because he's back in there he's with a young guy who reminds him of himself and like again there's such a need for us to always go and be with the beginner again and go to the source again and we miss out on that in life because the higher you get again less randomness means you spend time with the same people you're not spending time with the person who's at the grassroots who's who's got their finger on the pulse yeah and all of a sudden again you're disconnected yeah you're disconnected yeah completely disconnected and that's so right man i i felt myself going i felt like through through my journey and through 20 years you know what's really interesting is that it's very easy to age yourself out the game right it is and and you know i think it's funny right i don't know if you've ever took if any of the other artists who you've had on your podcast have ever talked about this um ageism is a funny thing in the music industry yeah i don't think we have in the music industry is weird right like if you're an actor it's brilliant you just get to play older roles yeah and sometimes they become even better because they've been acting for so many years and now right well now i feel like most like the main actors like in movies are 50 years old right that's like the standard age if you actually check their ages yeah it's really interesting yeah so in a way the more time you spend there the more years you put into that craft will actually pay off i mean let's say if I was a doctor right now I'd probably be a consultant within a few years the more years you put in you step up the ladder and whereas music it's like the more years you put in it's like you're ending you're going closer towards the finish line and they're like come on mate enough now get off stage no one wants to see a 50 year old dancing around right and it's a very weird thing if again if I didn't have a sense of humor about that I could be like who are you to tell me when to stop working who are you to tell me i'm too old to be on that stage who are you to tell me that i have not done anything great since that song or this song but i do understand i do understand it's kind of awkward and cringeworthy at some point if you see some people who aren't self-aware enough to understand that bro maybe you shouldn't be dancing right now go and sit on a make the song acoustic and let's just get that audience yeah yeah yeah right able to let go of a former identity that worked yeah that's right that's so interesting and the thing is quite often we're frozen in time yeah i'm frozen in time on those plaques in my house and in jeremy's house there's a baby face jay sean and i look at him and i see that young boy and i see what he's achieved and i'm proud of him but i'm also very aware that maybe i don't want to keep doing this 10 years down the line who knows i mean truth be told i'm sure snoop and all these guys said that they wouldn't be rapping i i feel like your favorite artists redoing songs that are either nostalgic like i think nostalgia is such a big part of music right of course it is you listen to music to feel that way again exactly like for me with usher too i don't think usher made a load in new music recently but it's like to me when he did you remind me obviously and there was this scene in the you remind me video where the song shuts off but he's on that silhouette of that you know which one yeah of course the sun's in the background and he did that on stage and for me i was like that's all i want to see because to me it's like that is exactly where i was at 16 i remember trying to do the moves and failing and and i still fail to this so why do you think i I don't dance, mate.

1:23:45Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's the thing. And it's like, if Eminem picks up a mic ever, I will be there. I will just sit and watch. I mean, watching Beckham in his documentary take three kicks. I'd happily watch David Beckham play football any day of the week because there's a feeling there that you'll never get because nostalgia is built that way. Nostalgia will never change. Like, if you had a positive experience watching Rocky, I can still watch Rocky because me and my dad used to watch Rocky together. There you go. So Rocky will never ever be old or boring for me Because you know I've watched Rocky a million times Bro say I know every word All of them Even Rocky 5 Even though they say it's the bad one I still love it I love Rocky 5 I still love it Right But bro you bring up such a good point It's such a true point Yeah Which is why I mean if you go to Vegas Why all of the biggest acts are nostalgia acts But they put you in a place where you just feel They transport you back in time What can ever transport you back in time as well as music does.

1:24:44Totally nothing. You know where you were, what you were wearing, what girl you were dating. You know all of that stuff. You know when you listen to a song, you know where you were. And it's a beautiful thing. But it's really funny. You reminded me of something when you said about the Rocky thing, right? And you were saying, again, just to go back to that, the other day when I was watching his documentary, and I'm not, it's not going to spoil anything for you. There's some of the scenes are in his house in LA. You've probably been to his house. I haven't, I haven't. I've only met him once and he was amazing.

1:25:13Dude. Yeah, I've only met him once and he's amazing, but it wasn't at his house. I hope, I'm so glad he lived up to what you wanted him to be. He was awesome, yeah. But here's a guy who's been acting for, what, 50 years now? 50. 50 years in the game. And what was his biggest breakthrough hit? Rocky. Rocky won. Biggest breakthrough hit. But then 50 years of more films. Now, if Sylvester Stallone is walking down Sunset Boulevard and me and my mates or whoever was there and they saw him oh my god or just any person sees him what do you think he hears every day of his life yo adrian yo rocky right that's what we do now he could take that in one of two ways couldn't he yeah he could either go shut up i've done like a hundred films why do you keep going back to rocky yeah or he could go yo yeah i get it because i love rocky too yeah and Rocky for me changed my life and I know you guys love Rocky totally and he took Rocky his baby that changed his whole life and instead of rejecting it and going you remind me of the fact that maybe I've never topped you instead of doing that he's like come here I'll put a massive statue of myself as Rocky in my swimming pool yeah in my house and I will have all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house and i will embrace you and i'll be grateful for you yeah and that i really love that because i think the problem as artists is that sometimes we want to when we do a show right people are waiting man you go see michael jackson it's michael jackson he has some of the biggest best songs on planet earth one of the biggest pop stars that ever lived what are people waiting for

1:26:59and you want to see him do his dance and moonwalk yeah And he's probably like I'm Michael Jackson And that's what you're waiting for Billie Jean Yeah Oh great Yeah Of course they are Yeah Because that's why they fell in love with him And that's why they fell in love with Rocky And they're the people who For me in America man They fell in love with Down So when I do my shows and stuff like that Whatever it is Even if I've got new songs I'm not turning my concert into me I'm not turning it into Hey guys I know that you Loads of songs that you guys want to hear but I'm actually going to spend the next 45 minutes singing my brand new album.

1:27:34I'm not doing it. They don't care because they don't know it. The show's for them. Yeah. Right? It's such a good point. And I love this idea of, you know, we all, and whether it's age, whether it's time, whether it's changes in life, there is a part of your identity where you have to shed, you have to let go. Like everyone has to do that. And what's amazing is I actually saw what you just said you don't do happen recently. I won't name the eyes. I'll tell you afterwards. I'll tell you afterwards. Right. so he comes on stage and we're waiting for this song right waiting and he's he's the he's the first act before the main stage but it's still an artist that i love and i'm waiting for the song the beat comes on and we're all there and yes we're like me and radhi and our friends that we went with really excited and then 10 seconds into the track they cut the beat and he goes you think i'm gonna do that here he goes you think i'm gonna give you the whole song he goes i got 30 years of songs to give you and then he goes plays all these songs that we didn't recognize and he actually did that and it was like i was like you just took away my moment bro like i wanted you to do that song that's right because i'm limiting you not because i think you have no other hits you you actually are really talented right but that song is so special and iconic yeah that i need to hear it you need to hear it and and i felt like 10 seconds of it was all he gave us and then and then he never went back to it and i thought oh maybe he gave it 10 seconds he'll go back set finish didn't get it you know and and that's exactly that feeling of like it's our own stuff but you're saying we're dealing with that yeah we're all dealing with that we all have a trapped identity somewhere yeah all of us have what you're saying somewhere yeah and somehow we're actually mad at it right and we're annoyed by it rather than welcoming and embracing it and i think about that it's been 10 years since i left the monastery i'm a very different externally a very different person today i'm married i have businesses we have you know media we change where we live like so many things but at my heart i'm the same person i'm a very i'm different externally my life has different things of course i've changed people change there's parts of me they've changed but i embrace that experience it's a massive part of me but i found that whether you embrace or reject people always have an issue with it because it doesn't make sense to them if it doesn't fit into their version of how they perceive you yeah it's complicated and yeah i think for me i've i've learned to accept that i need to give myself permission to be who i am today to be who i was 10 years ago and who i will be 10 years from now and i promise you it won't be the same and i need to give myself permission to allow that and i think we when you see like you said when you see sylvester slow and give himself permission i was we had arnold schwarzenegger on the podcast i know He's the same.

1:30:15He has the original Terminator outfit in his place. He has Alien. He has everything. And he loves it. Like, he really loves it. And I love him for it because I'm like, yeah, bro, you do. You should be proud of yourself. Of course. You crushed it. And he's not trying to be the Terminator anymore. He's not trying to be. But he loves it. He loves doing. My social media manager asked him a question on the way out. And they said, do you have any last words? And he's like, I'll be back. And I'm like, he loves it. and i love it and i love it and right and i love him what they want yeah and i love him for it and he's not he's not disingenuous he's not inauthentic he's not stuck in the past he's a really right he was great to chat to and so yeah man all these people were talking about but jay i could talk to you for hours i know we can literally do this i think we have been yeah we have been uh i could genuinely talk to you guys and i love this and i think we've what i love about this conversation genuine is i feel like we've drawn like you you pulled out rocky yeah And I think because we have that, we've drawn this really nice arc and narrative for people.

1:31:13And I hope everyone who's listening and watching this, I really hope that you find your own rocky journey, like genuinely in your own way, as you've seen mirrored in your life that you've shared so wonderfully today. But Jay, we end every episode with a final five or the fast five. Jay, Sean, these are your fast five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Spend so much time on self-improvement that you have no time to criticize others. Love it. That is great advice and no one's ever said it on the show. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

1:31:46It sounds so stupid, but it's like when you get the big money, nobody told me how to spend it or invest it. It's a great point. Right. And nobody told me any about that. Go buy some houses instead of like, you know, wasting on stuff like that. So I wish I actually got some some advice on that, how to manage money. Yeah, that's good. That's good. I hope that I hope all the. Yeah, I hope everyone is coming into new money is hearing that. Question number three, what has been the gift of parenting that you didn't expect? Because I know you're a great dad. That it's no longer, the world is no longer about me.

1:32:21My job is no longer about me. My life is no longer about me. It's all about, it's all for my kids. All of this now is for my kids. And it's the most beautiful thing is there's nothing more grounding than, you know, than when you can be a pop star and famous around the world, but you come home and you're just daddy. It really is the cutest Yeah Question number four What is the thing that surprised you most About the music industry in 20 years? How much of a change technology would have on it It's literally flipped it on its head It is a totally different animal There's 120 ,000 new songs that come out every day now Every day?

1:33:00Every day 120 ,000 new songs come out So you imagine trying to get yours It's just a needle in a haystack And so many people can be independent You can do whatever you want Don't need that big record deal anymore Although I do have a record company that I've started For South Asian talent That's my way of giving back I'm so excited about that by the way And that's what I want to use all of my 20 years for bro All of my experience is to now pass it on to the next generation So I have experienced it I know all about it now So now it's my turn to be able to help other people through it I love that you're doing that as well Because I think there's such a need for that support I was probably the two you know I was the guy watching jump off but too scared to go on right that's it bro I know you love rapping I might have to sign you mate no I think the age thing but no the idea of like there's just I think there's an I'm so happy that you're doing that honestly when I heard about that that was amazing and I'm so sad I couldn't come to the event I was on a plane I was out of town fifth and final question if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be The obvious thing for me to think that the world is missing right now is kindness.

1:34:12So what if there was a law that every person that you meet, you had to do a kind act? What if there was a law that you had to do one random act of kindness a day? And I think that could go on to make the world a better place. Yeah, that'd be beautiful. I think so. I love it. Even if you didn't want to do it, if it was a law and you knew you had to do a random act of kindness for somebody, that could have a knock on effect. Yeah, because it would make you do it even end of the day. Like you have to figure it out. Yeah. I love it. Jay, Sean, everyone. I'm so grateful. Jay, thank you so much for coming on.

1:34:42Thank you, brother. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, this was so much fun. I knew it would be yapping on for hours. I don't even know how long. I don't know. Yeah, I'd have to ask these guys. But no, that was awesome, man. Thank you, brother. So excited for people to continue to listen to your new album on Spotify. And where do you like, actually, that's a great question. As a musician, where do you like people to discover your work now? Well, the streaming, obviously the streaming platforms is where it's all at, right? So everybody knows that whatever they have a favorite streaming platform, Apple, whatever, whatever you like, it will obviously be up on there.

1:35:11But really also, I love being on TikTok, man. I know you do. You know, TikTok for me is actually a really cathartic tool because it allows me to, my silly, goofy sense of humor, it allows me to just be a human being rather than just an artist. So yeah, if you guys want to just follow me on TikTok, it's just at J Sean and all of the usual stuff. It's very easy. It's just at J Sean everywhere. Love it. Yeah, man. Brother, thank you, man. That was so much fun, man. My man. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.

1:35:46My fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. And Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel. And even access to one-of-a-kind experiences.

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