Jay’s Must-Listens: 4 Powerful Lessons to Reflect From This Year & Move Into the Next With Clarity & Inspiration ft. Dr. Orna & Novak Djokovic

26:35And they broke my jaw and my teeth. I was unconscious. Then I woke up and I screamed. And I screamed because even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on, wait, they could kill me and I'm not going to let that happen. I'm not going to let that happen. I'm going to get through this. And I did. Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

27:06And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled, do I have scurvy at 3am. On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health. But also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50 % of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but you don't even know.

27:45You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

28:01Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little bit different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.

28:24Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Rufus Wainwright, Remy Wolfe, Mark Rebillier, Mavis Staples, really too many to name. And there's still so much more to come in this new season, including the powerful psychedelic duo Black Pumas, my old pal and longtime songwriting friend, Jesse Harris, and the legendary Lucinda Williams. Listen to Nora Jones' Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

29:07Cardi B opens up about the difficult chapters she has walked through in her life. career pressures, relationship struggles, and the loneliness that followed. If you've ever been in a season that felt heavy or impossible to move through, her story shows how accountability, reflection, and time can help you rebuild and grow. Talk to me about that depression. For you, as confident as you are, as bold as you are to be so vulnerable, and I'm so sorry you went through that, but to be so honest and open about the fact that a year ago you were in this dark depression, and it seems like the worst it had ever been.

29:43Yeah. What got you there? Why were you feeling so low? It was just a lot of pressure from my career. And I also felt like my marriage, like I felt the love dying. From my end, from my end, from his end, I was very lonely because I chose to be lonely. Chose to be lonely. I was saying like, you know what? I can't go through this anymore. I have to put a stop to it. But when I said I was going to put a stop to it, because you could say you're going to put a stop to it, and you could. You could go a month without being around somebody. It's not when you say so. It's when your heart say so. I kept telling myself, I will not contact this person for a month.

30:38I will not give in I will not forgive this easy I will not go back I will not go to the pattern I will not go through it But I was crying every day I was hurt every day I was out here in LA In a mansion by myself I was thinking about it every single day And when your heart is not done Your heart is not done Then I told myself I'm pregnant

31:13I'm going to accept the I'm going to accept my flaws the flaws that I bring in this marriage I'm going to apologize for it and I'm going to work on it and when I take accountability and you take advantage of me taking accountability and you take that as a see I know she be back instead of me taking accountability and you taking advantage of that. It really just killed everything. And while it was dying, I had a human groin in me. And I just kept thinking, like, it's like, what's life going to be without this person? What's life going to be without raising my last child without this person? was life going to be with that person not being my friend anymore without nothing when you have those type of thoughts it will make you sad it will get you depressed it will have you lost but I overcame that and I am the the strongest that like I have ever been like I almost feel like when was I ever my strongest my the I felt my strongest when I was 22 23 24 that's when I felt like my strongest and I was like living in a power and that's how I feel right now like I feel like I live in a power and it took months for the heart to say you're done instead of my mouth and my brain my heart had to be like you're done because you could say it and you could take actions but even if you take actions if you're not done you're not done like I kept asking like around that time I was working with Shakira and I was like how the did you overcame this like how did you overcame this and it's like it's going to happen and it's like it will never happen and it happened it took some crying it took some thoughts scary thoughts but I'm here honey I'm here and I'm the strongest I've been and I'm just...

33:32I love hearing that. But it was hard. I can tell. I can tell. I can see it. As I'm speaking to you, it's not easy. And I think those moments in all of our lives are the most difficult moments. What did you do for your mental health at that time? What did you do? What actions did you take? What did you have to do to keep yourself together and come back the strongest you are right now? I think there are so many people who are listening who have probably been through similar things who feel broken, feel hurt, feel lost and confused. What worked for you that helped you come back the strongest you've ever been?

34:08I don't know if it was just time because I kind of did a little bit of everything. Like I did do therapy. I did saw a therapist. She's really good, by the way. It was like on Zoom and it was like, I was telling myself like, I can't believe I'm telling a whole stranger my feelings, my thoughts, my personal business for three hours straight.

34:39I was just like, what the fuck am I doing? That just feels so weird. I did therapy for, I did a couple of sessions. They didn't give me no nothing. I was all spring, all summer, recording. It just wasn't enough. I just felt like I just had to let it die on its own. Let things die on its own. And the bad thing about it is that it's like, not only am I dealing with that, that's my personal life. I was also dealing with fans putting pressure on me because they want an album, they want products for me. I had people that don't like me talking down on me. And then I had peers trying to start problems with me.

35:29And all of that while I was going through a mental breakdown at home. So it was just a lot. It was like, I'm trying to work it. I'm trying to sleep it. After I gave birth to my daughter, my baby girl, I was just like, fuck it. I take a break from work, and I was just going out every weekend with my friends. It was scary talking to somebody else and giving them a little piece of me. Not just my heart, just a little piece of me.

36:10And, but, I overcame that. and I just that's why I feel like I just became a little bit more better like just resetting yeah it's a good it's a good reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time does have a healing power that we you know the cliche of time heals all wounds but it's the truth but it's true yeah it's a cliche because there's truth in it yeah there's some reality in it that time and distance and being patient enough. I was working with a client recently who was going through a breakup. And when we would speak in the first month, she would tell me every single day that she couldn't stop thinking about the guy she was breaking up with that broke up with her.

37:00And then the second month, she'd tell me every other day. And then the third month, she'd tell me once a week. And then the fourth month, she was just telling me once a month and I was like you don't see it but I see yeah that it's affecting you less and less and less as time goes on but when it's you you feel like you're just still stuck there and so it's such a great reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time does heal and and just because time heal like in the meantime don't don't think that like you shouldn't like try to get help because it's like therapy didn't really help me like that I didn't work for Not as much.

37:39Well, maybe because I didn't get to the part of where you get the help. I mean, I did do this like six sessions. I don't know how long. Like sometimes when I give advice to girls, I be like, bitch, boss up, boss up, go to work, get pretty. But even when I was doing that, I had like a pain in my heart. And sometimes when I was going out with my friends and I was having a good time, it will always be like around 4.30 a.m. when it's time to go home and I'm drunk and I'm thinking to myself, I am alone. I don't have nobody to talk to. And it feels really weird and it feels very lonely, especially when you're used to that.

38:29However, don't avoid that. Don't avoid that, but it will be time that will heal it. It will be time. Time just heals everything. When you said again last week, you were saying when you put new music out, it was kind of the lowest you'd felt in another year. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism? Because like you said, you're quick with it. You've got responses. You've lived in a place where you had people coming at you. Why is it so hard to put out something you love? It seems like you really put your heart into your work. Yeah. And so when you put that out, is that why the criticism hurts the most?

39:07Because you put so much heart and soul into your work? Yes, because I put like a lot. I always, I don't like what, like I'm not a lazy person. And I do understand my flaws. Well, it's not really my flaws because a lot of people will say something about my accent, right? But it's funny because my accent to some people might be my flaw, but it's also my superpower and what makes me unique. Some people say that I have a Spanish accent, but I really don't really have a Spanish accent. I have a very unique accent. I talk very unique. When you try your best to like perfect your accent, perfect your flows, perfect everything.

39:50I always try to perfect everything that I'm doing at the time. I was trying to perfect it. Like even when I was a stripper, like it's like, okay, I'm a stripper, but I'm going to be the best pole dancer in here. And I'm going to bust my ass, bust my knees, practice every day, and to be the best at it. That's the same with music. I'm going to perfect it. That's the same with my marketing. I'm going to perfect it. That's the same with my business. I'm going to perfect it. I like to perfect things. And if it's not the best things, if I'm not the best at it, I could say that I tried to be and I worked my ass off to be and I didn't make it easy for myself.

40:33So when people just throw it in your face and then make other narratives on top of it with that, it's like, that is so mean. And it's also like different narratives of you. Like, it's like, wow, you don't even know me. You don't even know me. And you're making all these stories, scenarios, all this, this over one song. The key takeaway here is that time is one of the greatest healers. Growth often comes through discomfort. And while therapy and external support absolutely help, the ultimate reset is patience, self-awareness, and persistence. Difficult chapters can lead to profound transformation if we let them.

41:15Next up, Madonna discusses the role of spirituality in navigating life's ups and downs. Her spiritual practice has been a guiding force throughout her life, helping us stay driven, aware, and intentional. She emphasizes the importance of reflection and taking space for yourself, especially in a world increasingly dominated by work and digital distractions. What's your intention for being here today? Why now? Why today? Well, in the past, I've usually done interviews to promote my work, whether that's music or a tour or film. but today I would like to talk about my spiritual life and the spiritual path that I've been on for over 28 years.

42:00This wisdom has helped me navigate the the ups and downs of life for lack of a better expression. People ask me a lot through the years like what is the reason you're still sane what is the reason you keep going why have you not fallen by the wayside like other people um definitely a lot of my peers who who are no longer with us like what would you say is the key and i would say that is my spiritual life i absolutely would not be where i am or who i am if i did not have that it's helped me enormously as I said, navigate the ups and downs of life. So I feel like I would like to share that with people.

42:51So that's really the point of I'm not here to promote a product or I don't want anyone to buy anything. I just, I want to share something with people that has pretty much saved my life. That sounds dramatic, but it's true. Yeah, it seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to you and a deep part of your life that often I feel you don't get to share in other spaces. So even though it's been a part of your life for nearly three decades, maybe you haven't shared parts of it before. What would your life look like if you didn't find it? I would believe that the physical world is all there is.

43:31I would believe all the illusions. and that would be my downfall and that is most people's downfall what does spirituality mean to you because i think that word itself means so many things to so many people yes i mean a spiritual life or a spiritual path could could could be mean a lot of things um i know that you have a spiritual path and and for me it's not really about like whose is the best or you know it's whatever works for you. I've been studying Kabbalah for 29 years, so since 1996. Yeah. It's a long time. It's a long time. And I'm not a frivolous person. I don't suffer fools gladly. If I think there's something false about it or corrupt or not authentic, I wouldn't have stuck around for so long.

44:23I've had the same teacher for all this time. I feel almost like it's my responsibility to share with people because I feel like people need guidance. People need enlightenment. And for me, a spiritual life is having an internal life because you know this, I'm sure. If we get caught up in the belief system that our value in the world is based on people loving us or other people's approval or how much money you have or how many fabulous outfits you have or how many followers you have on Instagram, those things don't make us happy. Those things don't bring us peace. So having an internal life and being able to look internally and having some kind of practice, whatever that might look like, your prayer, your meditations, the time you take out of every day to stop and take stock, contemplate.

45:26We live in a very busy, chaotic world. Lots of noise, lots of distraction. I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh, you know, social media and like all the you know people can't walk down the street without listening to music everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time like there is no peace there is no quiet we're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves why am I here what am I doing or what is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising my children decisions that I make about everything really yeah I have to ask myself and if you don't have a spiritual life you're never going to stop and ask any questions you're just going to plow through life and if you just and and you're going to see everything that happens to you as just a random event and I don't believe that anything is random I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us to teach us some kind of a lesson.

46:31But the question is, are you aware enough? Are you awake enough? Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is? Why did this happen to me? What is my lesson? I don't want to go through life seeing everything that happens to me as random, but I also don't want to go through life as a victim. And I've had a pretty challenging life, and it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like being a victim or, you know, why isn't this happening to other people? Why is it happening to me? Why don't I have what that person has? I'm sure you know the expression comparison is the killer of joy.

47:09So, you know, it's like you got to get out of that game. You have to have a spiritual life. You just have to. You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across called the third space theory. Have you heard of it? It's this idea that as humans, around 50 years ago, we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home, and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church, a community center, or a third space. And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying, was a place that you could look back at work and home, and you could reflect on your life. You could take stock. You could introspect.

47:51But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it may be. A place of self-reflection. A place of self-reflection. And we ended up with working at home. And then after the pandemic, we lost work. And so now we're in one space and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying. Go back on even one more step that to me is like a prison. if you remove the spiritual life spiritual practice you remove the workplace then you're in the home and then removed once more from home is you're looking at your phone which even takes you out of home it's a great point, yeah so, where are you?

48:39you're nowhere we're living in the virtual world we're living in the virtual world not even in the material world yes, and a virtual world is not a bad world but if you don't have consciousness there's really no point to living. Yeah. So it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had, we need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things. Yes. I mean, some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen. What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued. I'm curious. What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times, as you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong or you kept pushing and they kept you locked.

49:28What were they? What are they? Well, one really important thing is studying, making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Kahil Gibran, or you can study the Vedas, you know. And you did that, right? You actually studied different traditions on your part. I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I was looking for answers. Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers? Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had a successful career, I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things, but I wasn't happy.

50:17and I naturally sought out, well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate. She was a Buddhist and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that. Like nothing bothered her. You know what I mean? Everything bothers me. Everything bothers me. I'm, you know, I'm a Leo. I'm, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic. I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness that everything was happening for a reason. She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career when I was living in New York and I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened to me.

51:04Really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her, her name is Marianne, I would always say, why are you never upset? So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me. And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga. And my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still has a... Love Eddie. He's great. You know Eddie? Yeah, I do. Yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up and competitive about like first series, second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses.

51:41They would just go and sit in front of the statue of Ganesh or light candles or prayer. And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me, because sometimes I would have injuries or I would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga. And he'd say, look, are you breathing? And I'd say, yes. And he said, you're practicing yoga. So I realized that I was still too caught up in the physical poses. He's like, no, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point. the poses are just something that you do to breathe through to calm your nervous system down and to bring you back to your center and that really spoke to me there was a big um now it was a painting on the wall of the yoga studio it says desire and detachment and i i said what does that mean and he said well of course we want we want all the beautiful things in life we want all the pleasures.

52:38We want all the happiness. We want it all. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't be attached to it because then if you're attached to it and you don't have it, what's going to happen to you? The key takeaway here is that cultivating an internal life through spirituality, reflection, or mindful practice anchors us amidst life's chaos. Understanding our experiences as lessons rather than random events allows growth, purpose, and resilience. Dr. Orna masterfully explores the dynamics of narcissism and relationships Showing how our interactions often reflect deeper patterns within ourselves She reminds us to look beyond surface labels And understand the real drivers of our behavior and choices in relationships Everyone feels like they've dated a narcissist How accurate are they?

53:29100 % accurate because we all have parts of ourselves that are narcissistically oriented, meaning they are to protect our sense of self. Some people move more to the extreme, and they're really deeply wounded and have to spend a lot of energy protecting themselves and working around their ego. But most of us in certain situations were provoked to behave in more narcissistic ways. And when we're offered other conditions, we can be more open and interested in the world. So it's usually the way it's used in pop language. It's usually just like a word that covers up a whole other world of things. I think when people talk about, I've dated a narcissist, they're like, that person didn't give me enough attention.

54:25and what's that about that there could be so much there like what what went on between the two of you why what happened where were you in that it's it doesn't tell you much yeah i'm so happy to hear that because i do think that the word is a relief it's not that it's wrong it's just that don't stop unpacking it there yeah so those words are really helpful for you to categorize, summarize your experience, but don't feel that that's the end of the investigation. Like there's so much more. Exactly. And you're actually doing yourself a disservice. Yeah. And the moment you're thinking about, I found a word that finds all the problem outside of me, you're deluding yourself.

55:08When you find couples come in with financial issues, is it really about money? Money is a big issue for people. Money is a big issue for people. You know, the question of money, one of the questions that couples deal with when they're fighting or debating about money is the deep question of mine versus ours. What's mine and what are we sharing? And the most concrete version of it is money, but it's everything. It's time, it's attention, it's airtime, it's sex. It's so much is like mine versus ours. But money is like, especially in our culture, money is like the most concrete way to talk about it and to fight about it.

55:57Like if you're making more money than your spouse or than your partner, who pays for dinner? Like what's the vibe between the two of you? Is it shared money or is it, no, we're still going Dutch, right? Fights about money are about the concreteness of money, but they're also about where do I begin and end and what's us together. And then there's a whole other thing with money, which is money is also something to do with our relationship with reality, right? I mean, back to the idea of someone hiding a suitcase with bills, unpaid bills under the bed. Like how realistic is your relationship with reality, with what you have, with what you're making?

56:45Like when people talk about money, they're talking about reality in certain ways. I usually ask people, how do you think money should play out between the two of you? if you're making more money than your partner, what is your ideology on this? What do you really think should happen? Does that give you more power? Does that mean you should be making more of the decisions? Does that mean your partner should be paying for less? How do you think about it? Each of you, just what's your basic ideology, which is hard for people to acknowledge, right? They want to feel like, no, money doesn't matter, but it matters to everyone.

57:25in some way or another. They have an ideology. So are they willing to put it on the table to be honest with how they think about it? And then once you compare these ideologies, then we can have a discussion. It's back to the idea of the couple creating their political backdrop. What is the politics of this relationship? Are you socialist? Are you capitalist? What's your economic system? What if we vote differently? You probably will disagree. On some level you will. Somewhere you will disagree and then it's going to get interesting. It's going to be like a Congress, right, debating what's the right way to do it.

58:07But it's better to have that debate on the table rather than act it out in those like, what was that film? There was that, oh my God, it's a film in which there's a shipwreck. There's this couple that are sitting at the dinner table and they're looking at each other like who's going to pull out the credit card. Oh, I don't know. Brilliant scene. Everything about their relationship was in that scene. I don't know. With her kind of pretending she lost her card. Oh, okay. And him reluctantly pulling out his credit card. And then there was, it was just like perfect. I was thinking of a movie called Fair Play.

58:46I didn't see that. Did you see that? I heard about it. I didn't see it. I don't know if you'd enjoy it. I don't know your taste in movies, but I think it's really interesting. It's a movie made about a couple who are competing for the same job because they work at the same company, but it's really dark. And it really goes into the psychology of competition, gender roles, the pay gap. Everything comes to play. And it shows how it affects them from the bedroom to the boardroom to everywhere else. It's really well done. Yeah, it's really well done. It just shows you what's going on inside of our heads that doesn't often come out and just how we all feel.

59:31And it's so interesting how society and all of this has such a play on how we feel about our role and who we are. Today, we have so many more people to look at and view and see how their lives are going. I had a friend who his girlfriend made more money than him. And he did really well for himself, but she made more money than him. But she expected him to pay for everything. And she wanted him not only to pay for dinners and rent, and she wanted him to buy her a car because she believed that - Because he's a man? Because he's the man. That's how she should be treated. Interesting. And that was for her.

1:00:10Imagine them having a conversation. They ended up breaking up. But what would their conversation sound like? Literally this. I deserve this. I'm a queen. I'm a princess. I'm like, this is how I should be treated. Do you think she said something like that? She said stuff like this, yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. And you see a lot of this language on TikTok and things like that about what a high-value man is, what a high-value woman is, and a lot of the language and vocabulary out there today. What is meant by a high-value man? I mean, there's lots of different definitions, but generally it's someone who does, has a good career, makes a lot of money, does well for themselves.

1:00:51And you know, that, the obvious definition of it. Well, it's not obvious. Yeah, yeah, no, but to me, it's not obvious. Yeah. But it's just interesting to hear how these societal ideas kind of, because then we're like, oh, but you're not with a high value man, you know? And, and it's really interesting because in my world, a high value man would be someone who has good values. Right. The good values being like ethics. Yeah, ethics. Yeah, exactly. Like character, moral character. Yes, moral character. Strength and courage and bravery and honesty. Right. That's what I would consider a high value person.

1:01:25Me too. Forget a high value man. Yeah. And it's interesting how all this language at play kind of cascades ideas quickly, like you said. Yeah. Because it's easier rather than saying, I'm with a good man, it's easier to say, I'm with a high value man. But, you know, what does that mean? Right. Yeah. I was going to ask you, do more people want more intimacy or more sex? I think it depends. First of all, it's a complicated thing to draw the line between intimacy and sex. Oh, interesting. Okay. And I think it depends very much on the stage of the relationship. early on one of the things I mean we all know that one of the things that binds people one of the strongest glues is sex like passion and excitement about each other and like you know wanting to get into bed together and then at some point people start coming to terms with like differences differences in scripts differences in appetite i know that the the like the stereotype is that men are more focused on sex and want more sex and women want less or it's less important to them i don't think that's actually true i think again it's very hard to make generalizations and it changes between like straight and queer couples so it's it's really not necessarily about the biology, but I think typically there are different focuses for men and women.

1:02:59And then later in the relationship, things change because I think later in the relationship, the line between sex and intimacy gets very blurry. And I think generally everyone wants both intimacy and sex. Everyone wants it and everyone wishes it for themselves and wants it in large quantities. Everyone needs it, but they focus on different things. And no one has energy for it. And no one has energy for it. And anyway, a lot of it is about wanting to feel desire of some sort. That's what it is. That's really what it is. And not necessarily wanting, you know, oh, I need to have it three times a week or I need this or I need that.

1:03:47It's a lot about the experience of desire and being desired that is really kind of the thing we all want, to be living in desire rather than living in a certain kind of deadness. The key takeaway here is that self-awareness is essential. Relationships challenge us to explore our patterns and understanding those dynamics allows us to set boundaries, make healthier choices, and build relationships that honor our value.

1:04:25On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, T.D.D.Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the call. This episode dives deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the Spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you.

1:05:16Listen to the next chapter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast episodes drop weekly. Hey, I'm Kelly, and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow. And I'm Thelma, also known as Aunt Rachel. If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters. Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years, but both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters. Did you know that we were one of the longest running sitcoms with a black cast? When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled with joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget.

1:05:56Oh, girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black. All Black people know about the look. On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Thelma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again?

1:06:39And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down, and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, Okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:07:30Cody Sanchez dives into financial literacy, debunking myths about credit, debt, and the resources needed to start a business. For anyone who's ever felt overwhelmed by money, even small actions like opening a credit card, this will help you feel more confident in your financial decisions. Walk me through the myths about credit cards and debit cards that people can solve right now. Is there a special credit card they should be getting? Is there one that's better? What should they be looking out for? What does APR mean? Walk me through the hidden things behind credit cards that we all feel stupid about when you see an ad and you're like, I have no idea what that means.

1:08:10Yeah, it's so true. I had an employee, actually, Christian, who's from the UK too, and we were ridiculing him mercilessly actually because he only had a debit card to pay for things. And I didn't even know that the UK was completely different. No, there are credit cards, but it's not. He said it's not normal. I was like, you're a 28 year old man and you don't have a credit card. And he was like, you need to travel more, Cody. And I was like, sorry. But then we got him a credit card so he could start establishing credit here. But moral of the story is, here's I think the couple first steps to financial freedom.

1:08:39You know, if you want to set up your kid for success, you actually want them to get a credit card really early. Doesn't so much matter what type of credit card. I'm not like the points guy where I like to operationalize and optimize every aspect of a credit card. I think that is almost more work than trying to make more money. But I think if you go from any of the major banks, there are a lot of rules around credit cards. So they're really not allowed to mess with you so much on interest rates. There's a lot of protections for consumers. So don't stress too much about which one. Which one seems like it has some nice perks for you and you can get the most amount of money that you need.

1:09:10Cool. So that's step one. And if you can do that for your kids when they're in high school, they will actually have more access to the first pillar, I think, of wealth, which is resources. We all know what's the saying. It takes money to make money, right? And so if you come from nothing, well, you can start actually building up your resource pile just from your credit, which you can start at a young age. You don't need to be rich to do that. And then after resources, you pile on knowledge, right? The rich pass on how to invest. We need to start doing that to our next generation. then you pass on wealth accumulation that's where you start to to pile on your own money and then finally you pass on you know the ability to invest to continue to move cyclically your money around and make it work for you but that's where i would start it's like you start with a credit card you have a debit card really just because you want to get cash out sometimes if you're going to the club and buying drinks or whatever people do these days that are cooler than me and that's where i would start and then i would move to this next level of okay if i have some credit.

1:10:06Now we need to focus on earning. So how do I make more money? But I think most people skip that first step because credit is scary. And listen, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, obviously very famous dude, but he has a line I love, which is, men only go broke by three things. And it's whiskey, women, and leverage. And leverage means debt, right? Warren Buffett gave him a little adage to it at the end. And he goes, I think actually what my friend meant to say was it's really just the last one. It's really just leverage. And Warren Buffett, one of the richest guys in the world, said he doesn't like debt.

1:10:41But here's the problem, Jay. He's highly levered. He has a massive amount of debt. Why? Because he has debt on assets and other people's things as opposed to personal guarantees on his own. He's not mortgaging his house to buy these companies. He is raising debt on a company in order for it to make more money. And so if you don't understand all that right now, that's where I want you to dive in a little bit more. Maybe you can start with a debit and a credit card. Yeah, no, I think it's so important to understand debt. And you see that when you see a celebrity buy a new home and you realize they borrowed to buy that home.

1:11:17They didn't buy it in cash, even though they have the cash and it's available to them. And I think that idea is so foreign. If someone's thinking about starting a business right now or wants to grow a business and the number one thing you hear is, well, I don't have any money. I don't know how to fund it. How much do you actually need to start a business? I think you never suffer from a lack of money. You suffer from a lack of knowledge on how to get money. The richest people in the world, they never use their own money entirely to buy things. And if you can like sit on that for a second and let that sit in, then I think you can really open up your eyes to the fact that all around you, there are deals right now.

1:11:51And there is money that is waiting for the actually rarest of things, which is a human who wants to work really hard and has a good idea where to put the money. And so you actually don't need money to start a business. I don't think you need it at all. What you need is some access to it. And so, you know, next week I'm going to the SBA, the Small Business Administration. And they just ran out all of these new programs for new business owners where they will, one, do grants where they give you money. And grant means you take this money. You don't have to give it back. The government is going to give it to you, maybe because you're a minority or a woman or have a core needs business.

1:12:26They also do a ton of loans. They'll loan you 90 % of the purchase price of a business if you need one. And all around us are also people who want to invest. And so like there's a website called Percent. And on Percent, if you have a small business and you need some debt for a small business, you can actually get debt from your small business through a website. But I think the most important part is not just tactically. It's like, can I change my belief to believe that money is all around me and I do not need to have only my own money in order to get rich? And I want more people to think that way.

1:12:58It's hard. I get it. Do you think everyone needs a side hustle right now? I have two thoughts. One, I do not believe that you have to go all in on the thing that you want to do in life. I think that is told to you by people who had survivorship bias. It worked for me, so it's going to work for you. And what do we know to be true? 90 % of startups fail over any five-year period. And so I actually think that the way to never have risk in building a business, if you want to do a startup and have no risk, I think you keep your job. You do really well at that job while you're doing it. You use your salary to fund your side hustle or your next venture.

1:13:33You keep moving forward on it until your side hustle matches the cost of living that you have, your cash flow. And then you leave your business or your job to go start your business once you have enough money from inflow of the business. And I think we've told too many people and idealized this idea of entrepreneurship when in fact, you know, I had three or four businesses fail. If I had just left my job that paid me good money, I would have been sleeping on somebody's couch. And so you can have a side hustle, but please keep it on the side for a minute until you make sure it's not just a passion project, it is a profit project.

1:14:09Yes. Yeah. And I think that's the smartest, wisest advice. I'm in the same boat. When I started doing what I do today, I had a full-time job. It didn't pay great, but it paid enough to get by. It paid my bills. It means I wasn't creating from a place of stress. And when you're creating something new from just stress, it can be quite debilitating. Now, sometimes stress can be the greatest motivator. It can propel you. It can be your launch pad, but you've got to kind of get it right. Too much stress and you fall apart. Too little stress and you stay in the golden handcuffs. That's right. And I think that's where I see a lot of people stuck today is I meet a lot of people who I feel have tied on the golden handcuffs, but not using that as the investment.

1:14:52So it's like, I want to have a lifestyle with the money I make. I don't want to use it to build a new life. The key takeaway here is that access and education, not just effort, create opportunity. Taking the time to understand resources and systems allows us to leverage them effectively and take control of our financial futures. Novak Djokovic reflects on the delicate balance of stress, motivation, and purpose. Even after reaching the pinnacle of tennis, he emphasizes that growth comes from passion, self-awareness, and the desire to inspire others. and if you've ever felt weighed down by pressure, his perspective shows how it can become a launch pad rather than a trap.

1:15:34Do you feel like in your career, you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player? Yes, and more than that. And at the same time, I still want to do more. And I know that that comes in a big part from a good place, meaning from a place of purpose, inspiration, motivation, love for the sport, passion for the sport. passion to make people happy when they watch me if I'm doing that. And I have a feeling that I am by still actively being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career, active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing tennis and inspiring younger generations.

1:16:14That's something that comes from a good place. But what comes from maybe, let's say, not necessarily a bad place, but less of a good place, I have identified that as well, is my feeling of not being enough. And that goes back to my very, very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with my father and not being, not doing enough, not being good enough, et cetera, et cetera. So now that I'm talking about it, I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me. And it's kind of the battle that I also go through often because a lot of people, even closest people in my life ask me, you know, what more do you want?

1:17:01You know, you have achieved everything. What do you want? Why do you keep going? And I tell them the good part that I told you that I still really strongly feel it's inside of me. And I feel like as long long as I have the capacity or ability to compete for the biggest titles in my sport, I want to keep going. And also, partly the part that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going is to test my limits mentally and physically. Because when I was starting to break through into professional tennis, I remember when you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement. Like after 30, you know, that's it pretty much.

1:17:44Even though there were some exceptions like Jimmy Connors, the legend of our game, he played, I think, semifinals or finals of US Open when he was 40 and, you know, still, still, you know, dominating the tour. So there were very, but very few exceptions. Nowadays it's different. Why? Because I think the care for the body has improved so much. I mean, now not only top 10 or 15 guys or girls on the tour have like multiple people in their squad to take care of them. You have top 50 people that are taking care of them. It's due to the improvement, of course, of the conditions for the players. And, you know, we earn more across the board.

1:18:27So it gives you, it allows you to hire more people that would take care of your body. And I think that it's also a kind of a curiosity from my side. How far can I go? I'm 38 this year. How long can I push my own limits? And I don't feel like I do have limits. And I feel like the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I've seen the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other day. And then he talked about he's, by a lot of people's opinion, very extreme. but you know he dedicated his own entire life to getting the data and understanding what are the best conditions for the longest living life that he can have for himself which I think it's something that is admirable and you know I give him huge credit for that and I understand because as a professional athlete you know the care for your body and your mind and the devotion to the daily habits is so tough because when you want to change a certain habit, science says it takes at least 21 days, right?

1:19:35For the brain to start growing new neurons that are reprogramming. But if you don't have the right environment, that's going to be very, very challenging. So that was also one of the things that I wanted to reflect on. And your question is the environment is the one that can be very stimulative to you. It can be really supportive or it can be pulling you down. So it's super important, even though we always encourage ourselves to be independent in terms of what we do, what we eat, how we sleep, how we lead our lives and what we do and how we can live the best version of our lives possible. But at the same time, we are social beings.

1:20:18We are very tribal beings. And even if it's a smallest community, we still want to belong to that community. We still want this community to support us, even if it's one person or two. But it's super important in the end of the day, because, you know, making tough choices, these are tough choices because society, when you go out there, you know, super majority of the places where you go to eat or people that you see, it's a kind of a vicious cycle and they lead their life in a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide or correspond to your choices that you want to make, the new choices or maybe the new changes.

1:20:53So it's really hard, you know what I mean? Living in the big city and deciding you want to go through transformational journey on a daily basis, we're being exposed to something that is contrary to what you're trying to achieve. I feel like it's reinventing yourself constantly. You know, for me, I've had this kind of upbringing, had the great foundation and, you know, I've achieved incredible things. I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion. And that was my dream. I achieved that dream within two days. I won Wimbledon and at the same day became number one in the world in 2011 in front of my family, in front of president of Serbia who was there.

1:21:33I mean, it was with a welcoming of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back. It's just, you know, once in a lifetime type of experience. And when you do something for the first time, obviously that big, it's just like, you're flying to the moon. I mean, you're not, it's a kind of an out of body experience. But then I felt like I had to set new goals. And because I was, you know, at the time, 2011, I was 23 years old, 24. So, okay, what do I do next? You know, I feel like I'm at, you know, peak of my powers and And I want it. So then I want to win multiple slams. Then I want to win all slams at once.

1:22:09Then I want to win gold medal for my country. Then I want to make history and so forth, so forth. So I think goal-oriented mind, particularly in sports, but also in business or anything, really, I think is super important because the clarity from my experience is something that is essential to have also peace of mind and to have a calm heart that you know what you're doing. And that you set your goals, your short-term goals, your long-term goals, and you know exactly the strategy that you need to implement to achieve them. And you surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but also people who are telling you what you don't want to hear.

1:22:49You know, giving you constructive criticism or maybe giving you non-constructive criticism and then putting you very down. But that's also part of the journey. It's also learning how to get up like a phoenix and rise and try to develop a thick skin, so to say. So it's a constant process, really. I don't see myself fully satisfied, if that's maybe a shorter answer, because I have that part of me, which is like, you know, I think I can still do more. But the other side of me is like, of course, I'm fully satisfied. I'm happy and I'm proud. And in a way, I can't wait one day for me to reflect on everything.

1:23:30But while I'm steering my active career, I don't have time. Tennis has the longest season of all sports, January, starts January, ends almost end of November. And of course, I earned my right in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play. So that's what I'm doing. I'm not playing as much. I'm focusing on the big ones. And I'm trying to incorporate all of these other things inside of my career and basically expand the platform and use my voice for other things than just the tennis court. and I'm super blessed to be in a position that I am. But as I said, it's a constant journey and process.

1:24:07The key takeaway here is that purpose-driven effort transforms challenges into growth. Whether in sport or life, aligning motivation with passion and community allows us to turn pressure into performance and inspiration. Merle Robbins teaches us about the power of our attention, energy and boundaries by letting go of the need to control others' perceptions we reclaim our own agency and how these small intentional choices in work, relationships, and self-expression create meaningful change. It's so interesting how we think love is over caring, but actually over caring is over enabling that person and overwhelming that person.

1:24:49Yes. And it's control. It's control. You're not like, if you think about what love really is, and for me, love is two things. It's consideration, right? It's having someone in mind. If you pour in oat milk instead of the cow milk, because that's what they like, that's an act of love. It's also admiration. And admiration is the ability to see something in somebody that you deeply admire. I want to go back to something that you said, though, because it was genius. and it had me think about the idea of the power of your time and energy. And you were talking about, imagine if like your time and your energy had dollars associated with it, because I don't think we value it.

1:25:42And I started to think about one of the biggest obstacles, because what's ultimately happening when you start to use let them and let me is you're going to see that you've turned other people into a major problem. And you have turned them into a problem in four ways. First of all, you allow them to stress you out, but you're not going to do that anymore because you're going to let them be. But the second way that you've made them a major problem in your life is that you give so much weight to other people's opinions. And in the example you were just talking about, what was happening is by asking you, what do you think, Roddy was doing what we all do.

1:26:22But most of us do it subconsciously, and we don't even realize it, which is before we even ask ourselves what feels right for us, we stop and consider what we think somebody's going to think. And you have that, like, really brilliant thing that I've heard you say a bazillion times that I love. It's not what you think, you think a thing. And I'm like, wait, what? But so I want to play this out because this is so important, was a huge thing for me. If you open up your favorite social media platform, we've all had the experience where you go and you pick a photo and you then put it up and you're like, okay, should I put a filter on this?

1:26:59And you start to then question, is this the right photo? And then you go back to your photo role and then you start working on the caption. Should I put emoji? Is this too much? Should I do this? And then you are worried. Why? Because you're actually thinking about what other people are going to think or do in response to what you're posting. Yes. Which means if you take the value of it, right? You just overvalued something that you will never be able to control. Ever. Ever, ever, ever. And yet you're doing it subconsciously. And what typically happens is if you notice, everybody's got hundreds of draft posts.

1:27:37Yeah. You know what that is? Yeah. That is a graveyard of energy you wasted on something that you didn't, you'll never be able to control because the average person has 70 ,000 random thoughts a day. You can't even control half the crap that goes in your own mind. So what makes you think any post is going to guarantee that any human being thinks anything? And the let them theory revealed to me, Jay, how often I was subconsciously valuing someone else. And that like, are they going to think negative? everything? I think this, is I going to think too much? And there's a, such a simple way to change this.

1:28:15You just let them think negative thoughts. That's it. The next time you catch yourself stopping to consider what you're going to post or what your colleagues might react to, and that's what's keeping you silent, say to yourself, let them think negative thoughts because that's what you're actually afraid of. And so when you say, let them think negative thoughts, something wild happens, you accept the reality that no matter what you do, it doesn't guarantee that anybody thinks anything. And then you say, let me, and here's where this gets really cool. Let me remind myself I can think what I want and I can do what I want.

1:28:52And your social media in particular, as you and I both know, it's your self-expression. That's what it's there for. And if you can't allow yourself to express yourself there, then it's going to be everywhere where you edit yourself because you're not just letting people think negative thoughts. For sure. But if you operate in a way now and you now take the value, you take the money back. We're not going to pay Jay the money for his opinion. I'm going to take the money back and where I'm going to put the value is operating in a way that makes me feel proud of myself. because when I operate in a way, whether I'm posting something or I'm speaking in a meeting or I'm showing up and not responding to my dramatic whatever, I'm proud of myself.

1:29:37And when you're proud of yourself, you don't even consider what other people are thinking because you've just anchored all of your worth inside of yourself. Yeah. And that's why this is another reason why this is so unbelievably powerful. Yeah. And the truth is, no one's thinking about you for as long as you think. It's true. No one's thinking about you for as much as you think. No one's thinking about you as much as they even say they're thinking about you. And we just, like you said, we keep draining that energy consumed by it. You reminded me of the beautiful Charles Horton Cooley quote, and he wrote this in 1890.

1:30:15And he said, the challenge today is, I'm not what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am. which means we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. So if I think Mel thinks I'm not smart, then I don't think I'm smart. So it's not even reality. It's not even factually proven or checked or tested. By the way, everything in the let them theory, this book is literally every thought, those 70 ,000 thoughts, that's what you're addressing in this book. Yes, and let them, two words, gets rid of this fear. Yeah. It literally does. Because I've talked to at least three friends this week, and all of them are concerned by either, hey, Jay, I'm thinking about posting a video on social media.

1:31:00I'm scared of what people will think. So that's for their professional or their passion. I've got another friend who's worried that a lot of our other friends are talking about him negatively because he's recently fallen out with them. Okay. And so he's worried. Like, what are they saying? They're all talking to each other. What rumors are they spreading about me? Like, maybe it's not true. And the thing that they're holding onto is they just can't let, they can't let them and it's no but they can yeah see i don't think they have the tool yeah see here's the thing if you're worried that people are gossiping about you let them let them gossip about you here's why you can't control it it's going to happen anyway yes and so if you can't control it why on earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted yeah it's an act of self torture.

1:31:51So if you are worried that people are gossiping about you, first of all, let them gossip about you because they're going to do what they're going to do because you cannot change what other people do. You can't control what they think. You can't control what they do. If they're going to gossip, they're going to gossip. So let them gossip. And when you say that, it's a relief because you actually acknowledge the thing that you've been afraid of. And it's like you're allowing it without allowing it. But then don't forget you have power. Let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself.

1:32:22I get to decide what I do and what I don't do, whether or not I respond or not. And I get to decide who I spend time with. And so the bigger question becomes, if you're busy worrying about, which means you're expending time and energy, people who are gossiping about you, why would you want to be friends with them? And so now you take responsibility for your own part in chasing people that aren't treating you in a way that you deserve. And you recognize that the power here is in just letting people be. And when you let people be, your relationships get better because people reveal who they are and where you stand.

1:33:09And then you get to choose how much time you spend or not. And not everybody in your life deserves an explanation. They don't deserve a response necessarily. And so you also get to choose who you tell your story to or who you apologize to or who, how you respond to it. And that's where your power is. And I'm not saying this makes it easy because you're probably in a situation like that going to have to say, let them, let them, let them. And then you're going to see them on social media and you're going to be like, should I block them? Should I not block them? Are they going to see if I do that?

1:33:43Should I not going to let them, let them know their lives. And if I want to unfollow them, let me do that because I get to choose what comes into my space or not. The key takeaway here is that your time, energy, and focus are valuable. Protect them, use them intentionally, and don't let external validation dictate your actions. Once you make that shift, then you make space for freedom, growth, and fulfillment to grow from within. As we close this episode and this year, remember this, life is not about perfection, it's about presence. Growth is not linear, but every moment, struggle, draw your reflection is a step forward.

1:34:23The lessons are clear. Embrace failure as a starting point. Show up authentically in your relationships in life. Give yourself time to heal and grow. Protect your energy, attention, and focus. Pursue your purpose with passion and courage. The past year has shaped us, challenged us, and reminded us of what matters. As we move forward, carry these lessons into your next chapter. You're capable, you're growing, and your life is a canvas to become your best self. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking your hidden potential.

1:35:05If you know you want to be more and achieve more this year, go check it out right now. You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months, and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief. There's no sense of meaning and purpose. You sort of expected it and you would have been disappointed if it didn't happen. What happens when Reese Witherspoon calls up the king of thrillers, Harlan Coben, and says, let's write a book together. I was asking him basically to let me into his secret thriller writing world. This week, Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club goes live from Apple Soho in New York City for the ultimate storytelling mashup.

1:35:42Reese Witherspoon and Harlan Coben on their new thriller, Gone Before Goodbye. You think you're going to read for 10 minutes and next thing you know, it's four in the morning. Get the story behind the season's most addictive read already a New York Times bestseller. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What up, y 'all? It's your boy, Kev On Stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures.

1:36:18What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kev On Stage, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here. I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of romance that a lot of men can't measure up to. I have heard stories. At the same time, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book.

1:36:54Really? I get up to the table, doodle dropped to his knees. I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama, you know. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.