Julia Fox EXCLUSIVE: ‘I Still Hear a Voice That Says I’m Nothing’ (The Real Story Behind Surviving Addiction, Life as a Sex Worker, and How Motherhood Saved Her)

32:51Like how did that happen? You know, people knew who I was. Like, I was like a hood celebrity, you know, and, and these directors heard about me and wanted to meet me. And they were writing a part for this young girl who has kind of a sugar daddy situation. And that movie would go on to become Uncut Gems. So I, you know, I auditioned like everyone else, unfortunately, even though they had written it for me, the studios were like, we don't know her. like what like they wanted like scarlett johansson and you know all these other women beautiful women and established actresses and and at the time i didn't even know if i could like actually act act you know but i had a hunch um and so you know it i did a screen test with adam sandler and it went really well and they were able to convince the studios to let me do it yeah absolutely but that's why i always tell people like like live your truth like even if you're messy or wild or cringe like like don't hide that because you never know who's watching you know like i was so embarrassing like like truly so embarrassing but it caught these people's eyes you know what was embarrassing what were you doing well you know everyone knew that i was living off my sugar daddy's money and every there you go it was like everybody knew it it was you know but they it was like frowned upon you know like people would talk shit about me or didn't want to be my friend or it was just like i was always kind of looked at it like as the spectacle you know and i was known to like cause a scene or just be loud and sometimes violent and violent yeah definitely Tell us about the violin.

34:44Well, I grew up in a violent home. So that's kind of how I learned to problem solve. If I want an issue problem to go away, you know. So I've definitely been known to throw hands. But now I'm like, oh, it's so embarrassing. you know but like I had to do all that messy stuff and be that girl to end up in this chair today speaking with all of you so just always be yourselves it's so fascinating for me seeing that in my home made me never want to be angry never want to be violent never want to raise my voice and never kind of create that atmosphere again and it's so interesting just how as humans we make those choices at different stages in our life and where they go from there.

35:38One thing that really stood out to me in your book, Down the Drain, that is when you mentioned, when you were young, you said to your mom you wanted to be a rock star and she laughed and then when you booked Uncut Gems, she laughed again. Talk to me about those two moments and why you remember them so vividly and what they meant. Because it's like you'd expect your parent to be so like happy and so supportive but she could just never do it. She could never do it and you know I think like now that I'm also a mom I can see her as a human and I see a woman who came from nothing and did everything she was supposed to do.

36:22She went to college, went to university. She worked as a nurse. She did all the things to become a doctor and was just always a good girl. And then to see me, who literally did the opposite, would go to jail, get arrested, get into fights, steal stuff, break stuff, trespass, you know, just overdose a hundred times, you know, just a mess. And then to see me be successful, I'm sure it's a mind. yeah, like I'd probably hate me too. Like I'm sure there's like a human, you know, jealousy is very real, even between mothers and daughters. I see it all the time. Like I couldn't fathom it because I see my loved ones as an extension of myself.

37:14But with my mom and I, it was always very clear that we were on two opposite ends for some reason and we could never bridge that gap. I don't know if we ever will, to be honest, but I know that I have to protect my peace and not keep trying just to be disappointed all the time. You know, I just can't do it anymore. As I'm looking at you, it feels like you've tried a lot. Not that much, but not that much. But there have been a few times. Yeah. What have you tried and when did you try? And just trying to mimic what a mother-daughter relationship is supposed to look like and playing that part, playing that role, acting that part only to be met with not her playing that part back, you know.

38:04And I realize that, you know, we can't just like turn it on and be mother and daughter and there needs to be some unpacking. But every time I try to talk about things, it's complete denial. It's almost like she lived a completely, like she lived in a different house. Well, she really did live in a different house. She lived in Italy my whole life. So I only saw her twice a year. So that also played a big part. But there were obviously prolonged periods as well that we would be together. But even then, it just always felt like she was just very uninterested. Yeah. And I could see that it wasn't like that with my brothers.

38:46that she had way more of a connection and she put the effort and had more of a genuine interest for them. So, and I picked that up very, very young. How have you reconciled that now? I'm sure there's lots of people in the room who have challenges with parents, potentially even challenges with kids. Like, how have you reconciled that? What have you, how have you come to as close to peace or a boundary that you've been able to set with that? You know, I wouldn't say it's forgiveness because how do you forgive a betrayal? like that, but there is an acceptance, which I think is the closest thing to forgiveness.

39:22And it's so hard to accept because it's really hard to accept things that we can't change. You know, we, we are the control freak in us wants to like change it and fix it and make it okay. But you need the other person to also put in the effort too. So, you know, I think really for me, I'm at a place of acceptance that this is just the way it's going to be. And if I keep trying to fight it or change it, I'm really only hurting myself. And, you know, I have a child I have to show up for. I have to be happy and positive. So, like, why am I going to let her have that too? You know, like, I'm not going to, I'm just not going to do that.

40:05it takes a lot to draw those boundaries with the people that we love and sadly especially your parents especially your parents like now that I'm a parent and I have parents it's like you can have more than one kid you could have 10 kids but you can only have one mom and one dad like in that way like you know obviously there's people there's blended families but it's a really really really important relationship. And I take it to the highest level of importance. To me, it's sacred. Nothing comes before my child. So, I mean, I just don't understand how for her it's not the same. Did she ever go to therapy?

40:49She's a psychologist. Wow. Yeah, that's why I don't trust them and I don't want to go. Wow. That's fascinating. I know. When you were addicted to drugs or even when you were a sex worker, did you ever have any near-death experiences? Yes, many. And actually, my best friend, Brianna, once called my mom in Italy and was like, your daughter's dying. Come here and get her. She hung up the phone. What happened to you? I lived. No, no, no. I mean, that day, she had to make that call to your mom. I honestly don't even remember. I think I probably just like OD'd on heroin or something. Was that a regular occurrence?

41:32Yeah. But that was the only time that she called your mom. Yeah. I think it was like the first time it ever happened. Yeah. And my friend just got so scared. I was living at her house at the time and she just like found me like that and freaked out and just didn't know what to do. But her mom stepped in as my kind of surrogate mother and helped me a lot. Oh, her mom? Oh, wow. Yeah. The beauty of having that kind of void is that I really attracted so many amazing women with that kind of instinct or that ability to kind of sniff out like, oh, this child needs mothering. So I've had so many kind of, you know, pseudo maternal figures in my life.

42:16And I feel like when I think of my mom, I think of all of them. You know, my advisor in high school who like saved my life. and a lot of them were my friend's parents and they really took me in and moms are just amazing. Like having a horrible experience of mine doesn't take away that I can identify that moms really are amazing. You know, I understand that my mom's like an exception. You have one of the most fascinating minds and lives of anyone I've ever interviewed. Honestly, I find it so incredible that despite the challenges and trials and tribulations that you were going through in your life, you were able to, at the same time, identify goodness and pray, look for ways out, see sacredness in your friends and other people.

43:09It's a survival instinct. It's like you don't even realize you're doing it. It's that will to live that we all innately have. Like I didn't set out to do any of that stuff. I didn't realize I was doing it until after. but I really I think a part of me as much as I wanted to die I also really wanted to live and I had to find love and goodness wherever I could because I think as people that's really all we want you know we want to be seen and we want to be loved did you have any dangerous encounters as a sex worker or were you the one inflicting me I was the one they were in danger yeah yeah yeah no and and obviously I understand that my experience is very unique you know obviously I had some clients that were better than others but for the most part I I always had very good instincts if I felt like something was weird I would just leave you know I'd leave the room and and go get someone else you know also S &M is a very you know it's it's really the only place in the world where like the women rule like I'd never seen that before I'd always kind of seen the opposite of that so I think being able to to be in that so young really kind of shaped how I see the world today because I see so many discrepancies and disparities and and how unfair this world is for women but in the S &M world we were the the people in charge calling the shots and, you know, and men were just there to drink pee out of a dog bowl, you know?

44:51It was amazing. It was heaven. It was paradise. It's, um, we'll just let that sit for a second. No. But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Every time I travel, I find a part of myself I didn't know was missing. I remember being in this small town, completely unplugged, and for the first time in a while, I felt still. Travel does that.

45:38It grounds you, expands you, and connects you to something deeper. That's why I'm always looking for experiences that go beyond the typical. Chase Sapphire Reserve makes traveling a breeze, earning eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel and granting access to Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com forward slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA, member FDIC, subject to credit approval, terms apply. All right, thank you to our sponsors.

46:23Now let's dive back in. There's this recurring pattern that I could hear about when I was listening to your book, this idea of proving yourself, proving yourself to your mom, proving yourself to men you were dating, proving yourself to the industry, proving yourself. And I still am all the time, but that's never ending. You know, I think it's so hard for a woman to show up in a room and just be given the benefit of the doubt, you know, whereas men walk in and they're just given the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise, you know, whereas women, it's always the opposite. We kind of have to work a little bit harder.

47:04So, you know, especially if you're like an unconventional woman or a weird woman or a neurodivergent woman or a loud woman, it's like, oh my God, the odds are so stacked against you. But, you know, that's not going to stop me from being who I am.

47:27A big part of what we've been talking about here this evening before you came out was this idea of how we feel judged when we walk into a room or how we think others think of us and how we worry about that. I'm sure when you're walking into rooms to audition, act, meeting directors, producers, I'm sure that there's so many things you think people think of you. how have you found coping mechanisms to that anxiety stress nervousness that naturally exist and people shared earlier so vulnerably and beautifully in front of 5 000 people we had people standing up and really opening their heart what goes through your mind and what techniques abilities practices have you developed in order to allow yourself to walk into a room and not feel that anxiety and stress?

48:15Well, first of all, I think everyone's feeling that way. You know, I think people are so just worried about themselves all the time anyway. Like they're probably thinking the same thing about you. And, and another thing is also like, it's really not that deep. We have the attention span of a goldfish. People will forget like nothing is serious. Like just don't take it so seriously, you know? And also if you walk into a room and they don't like you it's probably because they're whack like you know I've come to find honestly like people that don't like me are kind of people I wouldn't even really want to like me anyway you know like they're just not cool so I think just lead with that mindset yeah I remember seeing this uh this meme I don't know who wrote it or where it came from but it it says confidence isn't everyone will like me, confidence is I'll be okay, even if they don't like you.

49:11Yeah. And it's that idea of just, we think confidence means everyone likes me. Everyone notices me when I walk in the room and that I can control the crowd. And it's like, well, that's not confidence. And also if you try to please everyone, you just end up pleasing no one. So it's just better to just be genuine because at least, like I always tell people, like take the mask off, be yourself. So then you can attract people that are like-minded. And then once you have your tribe and your people, you're invincible. You know, it doesn't matter what happens to you because you'll have your fam that understand you and agree with you and know that you're the bomb.

49:51You've said that you don't, you're not afraid of being alone, but you've been afraid of being truly seen, which I find to be really interesting because I think a lot of us are scared to be truly seen in all of who we are? And where are you on that journey? I mean, I feel like even being here tonight and going so deep and talking about things that are kind of things I usually just put in a compartment in the back of my brain and just pretend like they don't exist. Like this is a big part of it. Also, I find that when you share a secret or share something that's been weighing you down, you share it with somebody you're also sharing that the weight with someone else now we can all carry this together and it's less of a burden for you so I think just like don't hold it in it'll eat you up like just if you're feeling something tell somebody otherwise you're just gonna it's gonna eat you up and you're gonna feel so isolated and so alone and it's just no no way no way to live.

50:57Well said. I fully agree. It's one of the reasons I've been encouraging everyone tonight to share their heart and so many brave souls have. I love that you were saying that recently feeling's been a new phenomena for you. How recent is that? And what have been some of the joyful, positive, healthy feelings that you've been experiencing? Probably when I quit smoking weed two years ago. So very, very recent. But, you know, that's not to say that I didn't feel things before. I obviously did. But I would just feel something and then pick up the pipe. Now I just do that. I always say, like, I'm strapping my seatbelt on and I'm going to move through it.

51:46It's going to move through me. I'm not going to go over it. I'm not going to go around it. I'm just going to let it do its thing. And it's going to pass. It's going to pass. Wow. It's pretty remarkable to have gone from that extreme to this. And like you just said, you're not on drugs anymore, not smoking weed. And I believe you're celibate now, too. Yes. I was celibate as a monk for three years. I'm on three years, too. You're on three years? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. All right, so you're going to beat my record. Yeah. I think so, unfortunately. What made you make that? Sorry, what did you say? I said unfortunately.

52:26What made you make, was it always a commitment long term? No, no. I didn't even realize that I was doing it until I was doing it. You know, I was like, oh my God, it's been six months. And then it was like a year. Oh my God, three. You know, it's just the time goes so fast. But I've honestly found that that was another toxic relationship that I had with sex. and with men. I don't think right now that I'm able to have a healthy emotional or romantic relationship with anyone, to be honest. You know, I think I'm still really coming to terms with who I am and learning every day. Like sometimes, you know, even though I was so precocious, in a lot of ways, I feel like I was a late bloomer, you know, because I just wasn't really living authentically and and I was self-medicating and I was just in survival mode for so long so now that I can like you know sit back I'm okay I have a roof over my head I have my my family and everything but it still feels like fairly new so I think right now I just need to like be okay being with me and and that's okay yeah what have you learned from cutting out so many of these things you were dependent on or had unhealthy toxic relationships within the past like what has it felt like to almost stop you know drugs weed practicing celibacy like what is what has that done for you like what are you experiencing from the detox i mean like i can go grocery shopping and i can go to sleep when i'm supposed to and wake up when I'm supposed to and I can show up for people and I can be reliable and responsible and dependable and you know I can be someone that somebody can count on and you know I'm I think I'm a great mom you know I can just build a home like a healthy happy home with lots of snacks in the kitchen and and it's warm and nice and you know just just like all the basic things that all of you guys do.

54:37For so long, I just wasn't participating, you know? So like as people, we're always kind of focusing on like the big things, like once I lose 10 pounds, then I'll be happy. Once I get this promotion, I'll be happy. Once I get this car, then I'll be happy, or this watch, or this bag. But really, life is all the little things, and you have to get those things in order, because yeah, you'll get that big thing, but then it'll be okay, what's next? You know, because it'll never fill the void. You know, you have to get all the little things together. And that's as little as eating healthy, sleeping enough, meditating, just spending time alone, recharging your batteries and seeing your friends and laughing.

55:21You know, like those, those are the things that happiness is built upon. So, you know, that's where I'm trying to live now because I was very much like, well, once I'll get a nose job, I'll be pretty and then I'll be happy, you know? And it was just always the cycle of trying to find the thing that'll make me happy without realizing that it was right in front of me, but I just needed to like water the damn seeds. So that's what I'm doing now.

55:52Julia, for our tour, we created a segment that we wanted to do with guests called Past, Present, future. And it starts with a series of cards, just so that everyone knows, that are marked past, present, and future. And Julia has no ideas what these questions are. So Julia, what I'm going to ask you to do is I'm going to ask you to pick. Okay. And these questions will ask you either something, I'll come closer to you. They'll ask you something either about your past, present, or future. They're marked. So we'll see which one you pick. So do you want a past card, a present card, or a future card?

56:25Do I pick at random? or just oh no it's up yeah it's totally up to you you can see what's wrong okay you chose a present card what does it say what's the last photo in your photo roll i didn't bring my phone out here with me we kept it away well you'll have to tell you'll have to post it later okay i'll post it later post it after the show okay okay i'm trying to follow julian figure out what she posted as long as you can post it uh all right

56:56okay future what niche hobby will you take way too seriously when you're older knitting for sure i cannot wait to be at the nursing home leave me the hell alone i just want to knit in peace what's the first thing you're going to knit yourself a blanket so i can like put it on me as I knit. I just want to knit myself into a cocoon and be left alone for all eternity. Doesn't that sound amazing? I want you to pick one of the postcards. Okay.

57:33Where was your first kiss? Okay, guys, I have a confession. I don't remember my first kiss. Yes. I know. That's part of like being, you know, in the trauma. I don't remember a lot of stuff. Like I genuinely have no idea who it could be. It could be like a hundred different people.

57:56To end our past, present, future segment, I want to show you a picture. If we can get the first one up behind you in a second. Do you remember this moment? She was always hustling. do you know do you know where you were do you know yeah i was in front of my my dad's building and i used to sell lemonade all summer long and just stack paper it's so much money what how old were you do you remember that i'm probably like eight or nine here what uh what advice would you give to your younger self that you look at in that picture keep stacking paper girl. No, I'm kidding. To just like everything is going to make sense, you know, just hang in there.

58:46Second one, please. This is your present. What do you need to hear right now? What's the words that you need to hear right now in your life? You are worthy.

59:04Do you feel that's like a daily reminder right now? Yeah. And... Oh, God. We have a future... Thanks to AI, we have a future version behind me. Ah! Okay, not so bad. Okay. You look amazing. Yeah. All right. What do you hope and intend that you'll think of yourself and the people who really know you will say about you at that age? What do you think the people who deeply knew you in life that really got to know you beneath the surface will say about you at that age? That I'm a boss. I'm a boss ass bitch. Yeah.

59:59Julia, you've been so brave, vulnerable, thoughtful, hilarious, inspiring to come here today. And it was so funny. We were walking up when Julia and I were walking up and she said to me, she goes, I'm pretty sure we don't have a lot of crossover in our audience and our community. and I'm hoping that this has been a positive experience for you. It has. My greatest joy is in all of us learning so much about each other that we're able to see each other's humanity despite how we look, how we present ourselves, how we dress, what country we came from, what background we have, what walks of life and paths that we've been down because to me that's what the world really needs is the ability to look at someone's heart and soul.

1:00:54And you've allowed me to try and give that opportunity to myself and everyone else who trusts me to do that today. And I just want to say a big, big thank you. And I hope this is going to be a... Thank you. Thank you guys so much.

1:01:13And thank you too, Joe. Thanks for having me. I hope this is going to be the most surprising friendship of 2021. And I actually wanted to ask you one last question because you've talked so beautifully about your son and being a mother and the audiences, you know, really felt that and responded to that tonight. And you actually went through a miscarriage too, right? And was that before or after? This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations.

1:01:53Every time I travel, I find a part of myself I didn't know was missing. I remember being in this small town, completely unplugged, and for the first time in a while, I felt still. Travel does that. It grounds you, expands you, and connects you to something deeper. That's why I'm always looking for experiences that go beyond the typical. Chase Sapphire Reserve makes traveling a breeze, earning eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel and granting access to Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve.

1:02:32Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com forward slash sapphire reserve. cards issued by jp morgan chase bank na member fdic subject to credit approval terms apply i was 17 and it happened in a bar i'm pretty happy i had that miscarriage i don't even know who it was who the yeah how did that experience affect you at that time like i even remember that i was once um at a pregame when i got a call that my grandpa had died and I literally like shut up the phone and went back to the pregame because like there was just no way that I was going to deal with that and I still have like breakdowns like violent breakdowns about it I'm just I was just very good I was trained to just shut it off you know like shut it off.

1:03:33It didn't happen. Nobody knows. It's okay. Move on. But you know, like I said, it's like, you know, you know. So, you know, even though that particular miscarriage was probably God looking out for me because I was no way ready to take on such a sacred role, it still does kind of feel like a little piece of you is, you know, chipped away at. Yeah. Whether it's like you said, being protection or whether it happens sadly and tragically it's it's still a part of you that was yeah was connected to it and it's totally and and hearing about it from that perspective and how you've been able to just this this recurring theme in your life of just revisiting and tonight I feel like you've and in your incredible book you know down the drain your memoir you've revisited some of these moments that I can't imagine rethinking reliving rebreathing?

1:04:32It was actually so cathartic. It was probably the closest I'd ever gotten to actually, because I've had a hundred therapists, but then I stopped going, you know, but having to sit down every day and write that book. I mean, there were so many times that I was like, I'll just call a ghostwriter. Like, it's fine. Everybody does it. Like, it's okay. And I would just, just force myself to like sit there and sit with the pain. And, and I remember like, I'd be flushed, like my cheeks would be red I'd be sweating because I'm like oh my god I can't believe I'm like actually writing this and it was like I could have not written it you know but but a part of me felt like like I needed to you know like I needed to talk about it or release it in some way and actually ever since writing the book I do feel like lighter weirdly like I'm not carrying all that baggage alone.

1:05:24And also the response that I've gotten from it. And, you know, every time a young girl comes up to me and she tells me that she broke up with her boyfriend because she read my book, I'm like, oh, you know, doing God's work out here. It doesn't get better than that, guys. But you know what I mean? It's like, that's really what it's all about. You know, I think the most times I've ever felt close to happiness or joy, like real pure joy, was when I was able to help somebody without getting anything back. Like that's really when I feel so at peace, you know, and so happy and joyful. So, you know, I think that's just, that's what it's about.

1:06:10And also I have this thing where it's like, I don't want to burden anyone. I don't want to be annoying. I don't want to ask. I don't want to be a problem. But it's like, no people like it people like it when you ask for help or ask for stuff like I that's something I really also would tell my present Julia like ask for help like like people like to be of service and people like to help you're doing them a favor too you know so because I always think like I'll do it myself I'll do it like that's my whole thing I did it myself but like it's not sustainable I want to thank you so much is there anything you want to share any last words any I actually do want to say one thing because you were mentioning meditation as I was walking out.

1:06:49And in the third grade, my teachers and social workers told my dad that I was probably ADHD and needed to get medication. And my dad actually put me in transcendental meditation classes. And in that same year, I was failing all my classes. I was like a complete 180. I started getting A's and sitting at the front of my class and raising my hand. And if only I had stuck with it, that's all I'm going to say. But it really works. Meditation really works. Are you back to it now? It's always on my to-do list and I never do it. But now, because I've told all of you, and I hope you guys hold me accountable and write in my comments all day, I hope you're meditating today, Julia.

1:07:34If you guys could do that for me, you have no idea how much I need it. I will definitely pick back up. All right. That's the first thing we're going to do together is meditate. Julia, as our On Purpose audience knows, we end every episode with a final five. These have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. So, Julia Fox, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? The best advice I've ever heard or received is actually from my mom who said, be nice to everyone because you'll never know when you need a favor. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

1:08:17To like stop doing so much. Yeah. To not be so extra. And I think that's horrible advice. You know, that's like asking someone to like dim their light. You know, it's just a wild ask. I think you have to be extra and you have to be cringe and you have to be yourself. It's the only way you can really live authentically. Okay. Went over the word count on that one. I'll give it to you. Oh my God, I forgot the one word. Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you no longer value? Drugs. That's a great answer. I love it. Question number four, what's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night?

1:09:02TikTok? Honest answer. And question number five, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Be nice to women. Judy Fox, everyone! Give it up! If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking the power of manifestation. Anybody who hasn't spoken to their parents or their brother, call them right now. Don't think you're going to have a chance to call them tomorrow or next week. That opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life.

1:09:49This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve.

1:10:25Trust me. Discover more at chase.com forward slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA. Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. This is an iHeart Podcast.