Kate Cassidy EXCLUSIVE: Sharing Her Last Conversation with Liam Payne and The Real Story Behind Their Relationship

22:28It was no secret. And I think that, you know, with mental health and addiction, it really is, you just never really know what way it's going to go. And it's just a flip that can switch. I think that for him, yeah, he experienced struggles with mental health for years before dating me as well. And I think that he did struggle with addiction. And I think, again, he was pretty open about that. And like I said, with mental health, it's kind of the same thing where it's like you, addiction is something where obviously you don't want to have that addiction. And it's something, you know, if he could have chose to just be sober the rest of his life, he would have been.

23:15It's just something that I at first I think didn't fully understand I don't have addiction that runs in my family um I didn't really understand it at first so to be completely honest I think in the beginning of our relationship when he was struggling a little bit I think that I remember just kind of being like in my head like well can't you just not do that but it's not that easy it's not easy at all and they don't want, an addict doesn't want to do that. He doesn't want to pick up a drink. He doesn't want to take a certain substance. Like they don't want to do that, but it's almost like their brain is wired to pick up that beer, to do that thing.

24:00And that's when I started to realize like this addiction is a serious thing. Yeah, I think that makes so much sense. I feel for all of us, if you haven't seen someone with an addiction close up, you actually don't realize how deeply conditioned and wired it is for that person. And it's so easy from afar to say, oh, why can't you just stop? Or why can't you just quit? Or why can't you just not do that? And that's a natural feeling people have. But as you move closer to someone who has an addiction, you recognize it's actually them acting against their own will. It can be really something that just pulls them towards it, even when they really don't want it.

24:40And, you know, whenever I've met or seen people with addiction, I've seen that to be the case. And I really appreciate you being so honest about it because I think when you're new to it, when you don't have an experience of it, that is how we process it. How did you start to notice it? When was it that you started to notice that this wasn't something that just goes away or that he can stop? And how did you adapt and change and show up for him in those times? I think it was, I finally realized, you know, that this is something he did not choose, something that he does not want to choose. When he would, like I said prior, we would have the best day.

25:19We would have such a great day. And then later on that night, it was just something would just tick in his brain where he couldn't help himself. And I think that's a huge factor with addiction. In our relationship, balance was definitely a huge key. I really tried to do what I could to help him and better him and distract his mind. For me, I'm really not a home buddy at and Liam was a home buddy and that's okay. But for me, I didn't want to be at home from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to sleep. And one thing I remember closer to the beginning of our relationship was that I remember Liam would always order us coffee from Starbucks on Uber Eats every morning.

26:04And I eventually said to him, I was like, this is before I got my, you know, I was able to drive and learn how to drive on the other side of the road in England, as you know. And I remember saying to him, I was like, you know, you have a car. Why don't we just go out and grab a coffee? Like, why do we have to order one every single morning from Starbucks? And he just would always say, I just, I don't really want to get out of bed. I don't want to get out of bed yet. I just want to have like a lazy morning and then we'll go do something later on. And for me, I prefer to actually wake up early, go grab a cup of coffee, go on a Starbucks drive-thru, sit on the drive-thru.

26:35I know it's something so small, but it makes my day feel 10 times more productive. just getting out of bed rather than sitting in your bed and waiting for a coffee to show up right at your doorstep. So for me, I think balance was a huge key factor in helping Liam with his mental health. You know, I tried to make sure that we weren't busy 24 seven because he wouldn't have liked that. That's like him trying to keep me at home 24 seven. I wouldn't have liked that. So I think a balance was great. You know, some nights we would go out to a nice dinner and then go watch a movie after and then play mini golf or something or go bowling and then come home.

27:09But then other nights we would cook dinner at home, watch a movie at home in bed and then play wee bowling. You know, like we didn't have to be out all the time, but I think balance is so good, especially when you do struggle with mental health to help get that person kind of out of their shell and out of the house. And that's something that I really tried to, and some days, you know, he wouldn't really want to leave the house. And I would just kind of say to him, come on, like, we're getting out of the house. I have, I found this cool museum. We're going to go here. And just at the end of the day, everything that we did, we would never regret it because I knew in a way we succeeded the day.

27:46I got him through his mental health that day. I got him out of that headspace. And I remember, um, in Greece a couple months ago before, um, Liam passed away, we were in greece and he was posting on his snapchat and he was having one of those days where he woke up and he wasn't in the best headspace and I said to him all right get dressed we're going to the beach it's we're in greece it's 80 degree 90 degree weather why are we in the hotel room we're going to the beach he didn't want to go to the beach he said to me I don't want to I want to stay in the hotel room and I remember saying to him no we're going to the beach it's a five minute walk and then if you want to come back to the hotel room, we'll come back to the hotel room after.

28:29Let's just get out for even 30 minutes. Let's go. So we go to the beach and he's posting these Snapchat stories. And in a way, he's kind of joking. He's posting these videos and pictures. He's kind of joking, saying like, you know, my girlfriend dragged me to the beach. I don't want to be here. But part of him was being serious. And I remember when he put that out, I was, I actually, the next day received a lot of hate from that because the fan base don't know what goes on behind closed stores. So they took it as in, I forced Liam out of the house. I forced him to do things he doesn't want to do.

29:00Like he didn't want to go to the beach, but his girlfriend's dragging him to the beach. But I just did it to help better his headspace that day. And at the end of the day, we had a great time at the beach. We did. And we ended up getting lunch after. We made a whole day out of it instead of just sitting in the hotel room all day. And once again, I knew that day, we succeeded. It was at times a lot for me. And I am not a professional. I never was. And I, you know, am so young and I was so young at the time. And I really just tried to do everything that I could. And I just, I think one thing that people need to realize is that you cannot fix somebody and you cannot cure somebody.

29:40They could really only do it themselves. I think that's one thing back to what I was saying earlier that I just kind of was like, why can, you know, why does he have to do this? Like, can't he just stop or, oh, I'm going to run in and be the big hero. He's going to, you know, he's going to, I'm going to save the day. But at the end of the day, you cannot cure somebody, but you can, you can help them. You can support them through their better days, their worst days always, but you can't cure somebody. And I think that's one thing that a lot of people don't realize in addiction that you and mental health, you can't cure somebody.

30:10Yeah, absolutely. And it's a lot to try, even beyond this situation. I think it's so hard. And I'm empathizing with so many people who are probably listening and watching to this right now, who are trying to support a partner through something like this, or a friend or a family member. And it can be really hard on you because you take on this responsibility, you take on this role. And every day it changes, right? It's not linear. I think a lot of people think it gets better every day, but you could get better for three days and then feel like you move back four steps. Exactly. You couldn't afford it better.

30:46Yeah. Yeah. It's shifting every single day. And it's very challenging for both people because the person who's suffering doesn't want to put that on the other person. And the person who's trying to help wants to let go of that suffering. And so it's heavy for both people. It's also not just a one way thing. Yeah. It's not. It's both sides. I've seen people through addiction and having mental health disorders that are just feeling so bad for their caretaker or their partner or friend who's trying to help them through it. Yeah. And I think something like that too, you have to, in order to help and care for somebody else, you have to not forget to care about yourself.

31:22And that's one thing I think I at times was kind of forgetting to do where, you know, a lot of people could probably relate to that if they're in a similar situation. And you have to be able to care and better yourself as well. You can't just let yourself forget about yourself. You need to make sure that you care about yourself as well. And that other person, of course, both. Yeah. Did you overall feel like things were getting better? Did you feel that he was moving in the right direction? Like, what was your thoughts about how that progress was happening for him? It was more so positive than it was negative.

31:53I think he made, you know, like you said before, a lot of, you know, he would take five steps forwards and then three steps backwards. It would be kind of one of those things. He was a very strong, strong person. So he had a strong mindset where he could really, he could better himself at times, but it's just that flip that, that switch that just flips where you wake up one morning and it's almost like he doesn't have a choice, but he feels a certain type of way. so Kate I want to talk about how you found out on the day that we sadly lost Liam and what happened that day where were you and how did you find out I was in Florida and it was about three days after I got back from Argentina I was in the house alone with our dog Nala and I remember just being on the couch.

32:51I feel like that whole day was kind of a blur for me. Well, not the day, but that moment in time, I was on the couch and I got a phone call from one of Liam's friends and he called me and said, is Liam okay? I heard he fell from a balcony. And I said, what? That must be a rumor. I was like, that's not true at all. Like, There's no way this, this isn't true. And when his friend first called me to, he didn't mention anything about death. So the first thing that went to my mind was either it was a rumor, just something for clickbait, or he fell off a balcony and he broke a rib. Like, he's okay. So I'm making all these phone calls and nobody's answering the calls.

33:37And eventually I call the friend back. At this point, I'm like starting to freak out, but I didn't think the worst. So I'm not even like panicking too, too much. And I'm starting to get a little bit panicky. I call his friend back and I say, have you heard any updates? I'm really confused. Like what's going on? And he was like, the only update I've heard is that Liam's, Liam's, Liam's dead. and um in that moment I um in that moment I still didn't believe it to be true there was just no way but there was just that one little part of me in the back of my head that was like why would somebody make this up you know I'm just starting to panic at this point at at this point I'm thinking of, okay, this must be true.

34:35And I'm pacing around the house. I couldn't even sit still. Like I was genuinely, there was like sweat dripping down me and I've never experienced that before. And I was just, I just, I couldn't stop fidgeting with my hands. I couldn't be on my phone. At this point, my phone was getting blown up. So this news, whether it be this rumor that wasn't true because I didn't have confirmation yet or this true news that I was just, I just found out two minutes ago, my phone was completely getting blown up by my friends, my family, people that I haven't spoken to in years. I was getting missed calls from, and I'm just staring at my phone and I'm like, not even looking at my messages, but just, I knew exactly what these calls were for.

35:22I'm, I'm pacing around the house, freaking out. Um, and eventually his friend called me back and he said that Liam's not here anymore and he's not, he's, he's dead and he fell to his death. And I, I still, I still didn't really believe it. I, I just, I kept saying, no, no, know, he's, are you sure? He's, he's probably just, he broke, he broke a bone. He broke a rib. He broke something like he's not dead. He's not dead. There's, there's no way he's dead. There's no way. And his friend said, he's dead. He was like, I can't really talk for, I can't talk. I just need to let you know the news. I'll call you back later.

36:04And at this point I just lost it. I, I just, even talking about it, it brings all these emotions back where it's just still doesn't even feel true talking about it. Sometimes I can talk about it without crying. And then other times I can't really even speak because it's just so the way that I found out, it's just something that I never would have thought would have happened. And I'm sitting in my house. I'm all alone with my dog. I didn't want to be on my phone because like I said, it was getting blown up. And our housekeeper pulled in the driveway and our housekeeper left earlier that day. And she, you know, we got along really well.

36:50And I guess as soon as she pulled in the driveway, I looked out the front door. I saw a car pull in the driveway. She put in the garage code, ran in the house and just literally fell on the ground and just hugged me and just said, I am so sorry. I just got home. The first thing I did, I put on the news and it was the first thing after getting back from your house. And it was just me and her. And she was so comforting and brought me water, brought me tissues. And eventually this is when all of my friends came over to support me. Obviously my mom and dad are in New Jersey. So my mom got on a flight the next day.

37:26Three of my best friends from childhood all got on a flight the next day, all flew down to be with me. It was hard. And it just, it just still, it was just something I never thought I would ever get that phone call. Yeah. People talk about phone calls you never want to receive in life. And that's definitely one of them. I can't imagine the shock, the lack of power, control, ability to change anything in that moment, the lack of feeling helpless and confirmation, not confirmation. I mean, there's so many emotions that are running there. I, again, so sorry to even hear about it that way. And, you know, the courage that you have to share it right now, I'm sure it's not easy at all.

38:12What was the last conversation you'd had with Liam? Is that something that you were thinking about then? Did you remember that? I think when I think about the last day and the last words that we said to each other, it brings me this mixture of pain and peace. And it brings me pain because I can't fully still process that that day was the day I left Argentina was the last day I was able to touch Liam, to hug Liam, to speak to him, to be in the same room as him. But it brings me peace because it was such a beautiful last moment we had together. On our last day, we woke up, We had an amazing breakfast.

38:56We were in the countryside. We went horseback riding. And I had a later on evening flight. And me and Liam had this almost, I don't even know what other word to describe it, but we had this clinginess to us where even how we met, we kind of just met instant spark. And our relationship moved very quickly. And some people might say it's too quick. You know, people are going to say what they want to say, but I would never change anything about it. And if I even went away for one night to go spend the night at my girlfriend's house, or even go to dinner with my girlfriend, the way me and Liam would say goodbye to each other wasn't just like, oh, I'll see you later.

39:33Majority of the time, it was this heartfelt long goodbye for at least five minutes of just hugging. I'm going to miss you. I love you. And on the last day in Argentina, my car was in the driveway, and we went back into the guest house, grabbed my suitcase, and we were sitting on the couch. and I just kept going on and on and on about how much I love him and how much he means to me and how much I'm going to miss him and that I can't wait for him to already be back in Florida because we were starting this new chapter of our life. We just bought a new house. We just got a dog. We just moved to America as well.

40:09I mean, I was living in England with him for two years. We just moved to, you know, my country. It was just all these new beginnings and it was in just such a positive light. So I remember sitting there with him and I was going on and on and on and saying to Liam how much I love him. And he laughed and he interrupted me and he just said, Kate, like, you're going to miss your flight. Your car's in the driveway. You're acting like this is the last time you're ever going to see me again. Wow. I just laughed back. I was just like, I know, I'm being silly. I need to get in the car. I can't miss my flight.

40:43just to even look back in time and just know that really was the last time I was able to see him again is just so chilling. But in a way, I think that the way that we said goodbye to each other, I'm so blessed. And this is where I get that peace from it, that it was that heartfelt, beautiful, I didn't know of it, but obviously our last goodbye, I wouldn't have wanted it to be any differently If it was just, if I just said, all right, I'll see you in a couple of days. Like, love you. I'm so glad that we had that last beautiful moment together and shared that. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut.

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42:42I can see how much you're holding back and how hard this is for you just you know I think when people lose people and you know a family member's sick there's uh it's never easy ever but there's a preparation there's there's time to process with a tragic moment like this, which you're not expecting at all. And then to have the shock of it, did you want to fly to Argentina? Like what was even going through your mind? I think my first thought definitely was yes, to get on a flight to Argentina. But then after all of my friends and my mom came to Florida, I just realized there would be no point. And it's just better to not be in a foreign country.

43:27I don't know anybody in Argentina. I don't have family or friends there. So just to be in a home where I feel comfortable being and being surrounded by such a great support system is just going to be so much better for my mental health. I knew, of course, if I had to be there, I would have been there, but there was almost no point in me going there. I think obviously being in Florida for those couple of days after finding out the news and then being in England was definitely where I needed to be, was being in England. I think a lot of us, when we lose someone, when we lose someone, a lot of us focus on the moment we find out.

44:06But we don't often ask people how they felt the morning after. Because it's almost like when you wake up and the news is still true and you realize it's real, it almost feels heavier. What was that next day and that next morning like? It was a mixture of this numbness where I didn't sleep at all that night. The first night I couldn't sleep at all. I remember just because of also the time difference in obviously England, I was just on the phone back and forth with a lot of family and friends in England. My friends who were with me stayed up all night with me. I don't think any of us could sleep.

44:42I mean, Liam was even, you know, he made such an effort with my friends and they looked at Liam as a friend as well. So we all lost. They lost a friend. I lost the love of my life. I remember one thing my friends immediately, they said to me after obviously the news, the first night they basically took my phone and deleted social media. They were like, don't redownload this. You don't want to see anything because there were a lot of images and things that were coming out on the web that they were protecting me that I shouldn't have seen. So I didn't have social media for a couple days, honestly, maybe three days, which is no time at all.

45:22And I'm ashamed to even say that I redownloaded TikTok, I think after three days, it was everywhere in the media. It was, you know, I would just scroll on TikTok and it was my entire video after video, Liam. And just, I think the videos of seeing, of seeing him happy and with a smile and just good memories and good moments made me more sad because I realized like he's never going to smile again and he's never, it's just an end to creating any future memories. It was harder for me to see those videos. But yeah, the morning after was just numb. I think with grief, it comes in so many different emotions.

46:02I've never lost anybody extremely close to me. I've never been to a funeral before. And the fact that I'm 25 years old and the first funeral that I have to attend is my partner's funeral just still doesn't sit right with me. And it's just mind boggling to even think that. I remember when I was trying on my funeral dress, I remember just trying it on, looking in the mirror. And I just remember thinking in my head, I just started bawling because I was like, I was supposed to be trying on my wedding dress. I wasn't supposed to be wearing a black dress. I was supposed to be wearing a white dress. and Liam was supposed to be here with me, you know?

46:37So it was really hard to accept this reality of knowing he's not here anymore. I mean, when I'm hearing that, I feel like losing someone is hard enough and then losing someone when they're in the public eye and they have fans all over the world and then when every post you see is about that person and what's happened, And it's a different thing to deal with. And where everyone knows who thinks they know or knows who that person was, it's a very different thing to go through. And I find that you're not only grieving the loss of someone you loved, but you're also grieving the life that you were going to build together.

47:20It sounds like when you talk about getting married, was that something that you both had spoken about and talked about? I mean, for me, I think that most couples, of course, why would you be with somebody if you don't expect to have a future? with them. It's something we definitely spoke about and something that we knew when the time was right, that we wanted to develop and build this life together. And I think we were really on our way of doing that by moving to America, getting this new house. I was starting to think of buying some new decorations and all these things and, you know, having a dog.

47:54And we were just kind of on our way there. And to have that ripped from you is just in one day. I mean, you really never know what tomorrow will bring. And I think ever since October 16th, I live in a fear of, I don't know what tomorrow will bring ever, but everything just got completely ripped away from me in that one day. I know it hasn't been very long, but what has helped you with the grieving process over the last few months? And as you're in that process and journey still, what's been useful to you? What was helpful to you and what was unhelpful as well? Because I think so many people listening or watching, whether they've lost someone close to them or I think people struggle to know what to say.

48:39People struggle to know what to do themselves when they've lost someone. What worked for you? I think at the end of the day, you need to listen and trust your heart because grief comes in so many waves, so many different emotions. You're going to wake up, you're going to feel numb. You're going to wake up, you're going to feel sad. You're going to feel angry. You're going to feel one day you're going to wake up and you're going to laugh and you're going to just think of good moments you had. And then you're going to find yourself just this laugh turning into this hysterical cry. And I think that grief is something that you never know what to expect and it hits everybody so differently.

49:13So I think the best, you know, some advice that I would give just some general advice would be to always trust your gut. Some things for me might not work for other people. I think keeping a consistent, of course, schedule routine. And I'm not saying waking up in the morning from 9am, having a strategic plan throughout the day, and then not getting home until 8pm. Of course not. Your mind needs time to rest and think and heal. But even just if you take one activity per day, it could just be walking, baking, going to the gym, going to applies class, just any type of small thing. It just helps so much with your headspace.

49:56But I think for me, one thing that really has helped me so much and that makes me feel so full of light and love is seeing signs. And I see so many signs of Liam and I'm such a believer in signs. I believe in manifesting and I know that he's with me and I feel him all the time. And I remember at first when he passed away, I didn't feel him for, I'd say the first five days. And I know that's not a long amount of time, but obviously five days when you're not with somebody after being with them 24 seven, it feels like, you know, five years. So I remember getting kind of angry and just being like talking to Liam, just saying, why haven't you shown me any signs?

50:44And I remember one day it was before I flew out to England. So I was still in our house in Florida. I sat on the floor of his closet and I started crying hysterically and I was so angry with him. I said, show me a sign. This is so unfair. Are you here with me? Show me a sign. And this is a stage of grief that also I want people to know it's okay to be angry and it's okay to cry and it's okay to say things. It's okay. And I was crying and I was just saying, I'm so disappointed. I love you so much, but I need you to show me a sign because I don't feel you. And I remember I went back downstairs and it's just, it was such a simple thing.

51:21But my friends asked me, do you want anything from McDonald's? And at this point, it was so hard for me to even hold down food. I was barely eating. And for me, me and Liam, we loved McDonald's. It was something that we would probably get like twice a week, which I know is not the healthiest option. It was just a part of like, just kind of our childlike things to do. and we would always get the Happy Meal toy. We always would get the Happy Meal toy. It was always also Liam's idea to do that. He was such a kid at heart and he would always get the Happy Meals toy. And I said to my friends, you know what?

51:55Get me a kid's meal. I'm not even hungry. I really don't want to eat, but I'll try to eat something. But I just want to see what the Happy Meal toy is. I really just, I want to see what it is. So they came back. They brought me the Happy Meal and it came in this, like, because it was around Halloween, it came in this trick-or-treat bin instead of the cardboard McDonald's, like, Happy Meal box. And I remember when they gave it to me, I was annoyed because I was like, this is the Happy Meal toy. I thought I was going to get like a little cute thing that maybe would have been a symbol of Liam or something that Liam would have liked or something like cute that could just make me feel a little lifted.

52:30I was just, my head was everywhere. Just even thinking that I could get any sort of positivity and light from a Happy Meal kids meal toy, that was just where my headspace was. And I was so angry. I didn't get any type of toy. I just got a trick-or-treat bin that obviously I'm not going trick-or-treating. So then I opened the lid to try to eat some of the food. And I noticed there's this maze on the back of the lid. And it was kind of one of those mazes where it's like, count how many black cats, count how many ghosts, count how many pumpkins you can find. And I obviously, I didn't try to even do the maze.

53:04Why would I? And on the back of it, it said the answers in small little letters. so you can, I guess, match it up to see if you won the puzzle. And our angel numbers have always been four, any sequence of four. And the answers on the back of it were four, four, four. And that was immediately the first sign I got from Liam. And the number four symbolizes guidance and support from your angels. And this has been such a big part of our relationship. I mean, he had the number four initialed on his finger. I ended up getting it after he passed away. And I think that four was such a big part of our, every single letter he's written me, he has ended it with, you're 444.

53:45It's just, it was always our thing. So the fact that I got these, this Happy Meal toy and the answer said 444, that was Liam listening to me. And he was giving me a sign saying, I know I am here. I am here. You're not alone. Like I am here. And it made me feel so just my, I just lit up. I remember. And I still, I still kept the little map. I have it folded up and it's in my bedside drawer. And it sounds like you've seen so many other signs after that as well. Yeah, I have. And I see so many signs. And I came to LA, obviously, to be here. I came to LA and I've never been to LA without Liam before.

54:20I've only been with Liam. We've went a handful of times together and we've created so many memories here. And when I landed in LA, I felt like part of me was missing. I just even getting on the plane, just sitting alone, you know, not next to Liam just felt so wrong. And I just still, you know, everything that I do, I'm missing Liam. I'm thinking of Liam, but being in this city that I love and I have this connection with LA, I love it so much without the person that I love who brought me here and showed me around LA and introduced me to this wonderful city. It just felt so empty. And I think on my second or third night here, me and my friend went to a basketball game and we were on our way to the basketball game.

55:05We were in an Uber and everywhere we were just seeing fours everywhere on license plates. We were seeing it on billboards, phone numbers, like on billboard everywhere, just the number four. And then we get into the basketball game. We go into a suite and every suite's like, I'm assuming decorated differently. That's normally how it is. It has like a different type of interior design, especially at this arena. And we walk in and the wallpaper is the exact same wallpaper as me and Liam's bathroom wallpaper in England. And it's so unique. I've never seen a wallpaper like this before. It's lion heads with this floral design.

55:42It's something that's not just a color or not this sort of design that you would see shopping for, you know, a painting at TJ Maxx. It's just this design that I've never seen before moving into this house in London with Liam. And And the fact that that was in the suite, I immediately, that's the first thing. I walked into the suite and I just stopped. I turned to my friend and I said, this is the same wallpaper that me and Liam had in our bathroom in London. And then we leave the basketball game. At this point, it's kind of late and we just want to get some food in us. So we go to this quick little restaurant for a bite to eat.

56:15We were the only ones in the restaurant because I think their kitchen was about to close within five minutes. We walk into the restaurant and the song that's playing as we're walking in is Night changes by One Direction. And the first place my eyes go to is the TV screen behind the booths. And it was Liam on the screen. They were playing the music video. And it was just three big signs in a row being here in LA. And I just knew Liam was with me that night. And Liam was there at that basketball game with us. Liam was there that night eating tacos with us. He was there with us. And seeing those signs make me feel so much more connected and close to him and that I know he's here and he's listening to me and he's far, but he's not too far.

56:58Yeah. I had the pleasure of interviewing Laura Lynn Jackson who wrote the book Signs. Yeah. And I love that book for anyone who loves learning about signs, loves knowing about signs that that book is speaking so closely to, I don't know if you've ever seen it or ever met Laura Lynn, but she speaks so beautifully about how all of us have different, whether it's numbers whether it's emblems symbols things that we can see anywhere that points to us that we're moving in the right direction and uh yeah me and my team have had some pretty crazy experiences when we were preparing for that interview and met her and everything else as well and so thank you for sharing those because it's amazing to see how liam so alive in your life and so so present in your life and i can imagine that's hard too i'm curious to know what's been the hardest part of the last few months for you because as much as it's wonderful to see Liam being present in all these places I'm sure it's hard as well.

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59:18I think the hardest thing that this has, of course, brought me is this loneliness feeling. And you go from being with somebody 24-7 to knowing and facing the reality that you're never going to see this person again in this life. And that, for me, is something that I still just cannot fully process in my mind. And I think that is always in the back of my mind. I think going places to—everything reminds me of Liam. I could be having a specific coffee flavor from Starbucks, and I'm just thinking, Liam loved this coffee. I bring, you know, I bring up Liam in almost every conversation I have because everything reminds me of him.

59:55And at the end of the day, I'm thinking about him every second of every single day. I could be having a full conversation, full-blown conversation with somebody about something completely off topic, something just completely not involving me, involving Liam. And always in the back of my head, I'm just thinking Liam, Liam, Liam. And then even some of the things that I don't connect with, with Liam, things that we haven't done, memories that we haven't made yet or moments that we haven't shared together, remind me of him because I'll think to myself, Liam would have loved this, or I wish Liam was able to experience this, or I wish we were able to try this together.

1:00:29So everything reminds me of him in one way or another. You know, I think we often think of grief as a, almost as if we're waiting to wake up one day and we don't feel what we felt anymore. And that's, and for anyone who's tried to grieve, knows that's not true and it doesn't happen like that. And it's almost like this very day-to-day thing. Day-to-day, we can feel different things, feel different emotions. One day we can be an absolute wreck. One day we can speak with love about the person that we've lost. What's been helping you day-to-day? One thing that really helps me day-to-day is reading letters that Liam has left me.

1:01:11And I think in today's generation, it's not as common to leave letters. And I'm not talking just about birthday letters or birthday card or a Christmas card, just letters that are heartfelt and that in the moment you want to surprise and leave your loved one this letter. And throughout me and Liam's relationship, he has written me. I mean, he was a songwriter. He was so good with his words. He was almost like a poet in a way. And one of his love languages was to put his thoughts and words on paper and he would leave me these notes all around the house. And I have every single note that he's left me ever since the very beginning to the very end.

1:01:50And we could be at a diner and he'll write me a small little, I love you on a napkin and I'll fold it up and put it in my purse. I keep everything that he's given me. And honestly, if it weren't for these notes and letters that he's written me, I don't even know where my Headspace would really be at because I think when you're reading a letter in somebody else's handwriting, you genuinely, when you're reading it to yourself, in your mind, you hear this person, you hear his voice. And it's just this connection that means so much more than something on text or a compliment in person. And that's so important too, of course, but something about just a letter just speaks so much volume.

1:02:29It just means so much. And I believe you brought one of those letters with you that you thought could share. Yeah. When was this letter written? This letter was more towards the beginning of our relationship. Another part of his love language was to, you know, give gifts and sentimental gifts that would last a lifetime, something that maybe even I could pass down to my future children. And any single gift he's given me has always comes with a card and or letter. And this letter here says, the reason I picked this watch out for you is because it doesn't have any numbers on it. And my love for you is endless.

1:03:12It literally means eternity. So now every time you look down at your wrist, you can know and remember that my love for you is timeless. We have all the time in the world to learn our love language for each other. And I hope and pray that I get this right for you with every tick and every talk this watch makes from this second onwards. I love you with all my heart, Caitlin, and I won't lose you. You're 444. Sorry, bitches. Sometimes reading it out loud, just, it's just so hard to process that. It's like, we thought we had all this time and he thought we had all this time and it was just taken away.

1:04:02And it's, this is the watch and it's so, it's so special to me. And I just, you know, this is something that I will always, everything he's given me, but this watch I will always cherish. And especially ever since he's passed away, I read this note so often and I look down And I, I just like he, he, you know, he wants me to look down at my wrist and remember him. And, you know, it's not in the way that we thought, but this, this watch is so special. And it's even the way he gave me this watch. It was, I remember he came home one day and he said, I got you a gift. And I said, you didn't have to.

1:04:44What? Okay. Like, that's so kind. What is it? and Liam would always bring me gifts and they weren't always these luxurious items. Sometimes he'd bring me McDonald's happy meal toy that he got earlier that day after work, or he would bring me a coffee or just a card or note or flowers. It was always something different. And he said, you're going to have to go find it. It's in the backyard. And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, I just thought we'd make fun out of it. I want you to remember this gift. So I hid it in the backyard, we're going to have a scavenger hunt. And I'm just in the backyard running around everywhere.

1:05:20And he's kind of just saying warmer, colder. And finally, I look behind this chair bench thing we had in our backyard and I see this box and this card on top of it. And every gift he's given me has a story to it. And I think that's something that's so important too. And so important with me too. I have not only these cards that I can read, but these gifts, small or big doesn't matter that I they each have a story and a memory to it they're not they weren't just given to me like oh I picked this up today I thought of you thought you'd like it okay I'm gonna go shower now the every single thing he's given me has such a story behind it and I'll cherish this watch for the rest of my life and everything he's given me thank you for sharing that with us and letting us into you know the beautiful love that you both shared and also knowing how powerful it is for the people we love and the people that love us to have these memories that we can hold on to so deeply especially as you said so wonderfully in the form of letters i think it's such a beautiful message for you to share with everyone that what's helping you day to day is these cards these letters these moments in time that you've kind of kept as this capsule that you can turn to and experience that love, even if it is challenging, but to reconnect with it and feel closer again to Liam as well.

1:06:45So thank you so much for sharing that with us. As I've been listening to you today, I think you're really brave and courageous to share the journey that you both went on, the journey that you've been on. It can be very hard with anyone who's beloved by so many people all over the world like I said you know everyone in my life when we found out the news there were messages being shared and people who didn't know him so I can't imagine you know yourself his family everyone else who's actually gone through this loss and had to process it publicly as well what's something that you think this outpouring from the fans.

1:07:27I mean, the response from the online world was so beautiful to see. And it's always, this is something that I find so difficult that when people are alive, they rarely get to see how much everyone loves them. And we deal with this back and forth of criticism, challenge, whatever else it may be. And then when we lose someone, we all realize that, how we actually felt about that person and how they made us feel. And we remember the first time we saw that person on screen or the first time we met them, if we got that, or the first time you went to a concert for someone like Liam, or you start seeing all of these stories and memories pour out.

1:08:11And so when you look at that outpouring, what would you have loved for Liam to have experienced? I think I just would have loved for Liam to know how loved he really was. And I think he knew that to an extent, but with any type of criticism he was receiving, he didn't have that validation of knowing how much of an impact and how much the world loved him and, you know, loves him, you know, still every single day for the rest of his life. I mean, Liam is going to be spoken about forever. He was, he made such a mark on people's lives and impacted so many. And I really do wish he was here to see the love and support he's received from everybody worldwide because it's really nothing but beautiful.

1:08:52And the memorials that people have put together, the tributes, and it's just, he deserved it. And as time goes by, he's going to get this recognition and this love and support. And I couldn't be more proud of him. And I do wish he was here to be able to see the tremendous legacy that he's left behind. And it's something he deserves. And I think this is just another message to be kind to people, especially online. And it's one thing, people weren't always so kind to Liam. And especially, like I said before, with so many other celebrities, so many people aren't kind online. But then when something tragic like this happens, everyone turns and everyone just sits there and talks about the good.

1:09:38And he deserves only to be spoken in such a highly positive matter. This should be just a message to just be kind. And, you know, we're never going to live in a world where people are always going to be kind. There's always going to be that one out of 10 comments or three out of 10 comments that are going to be hateful always. And it's something we can't control. But I think the fact that we can't control that, then why are we letting it get to us so much? We can't control what people's opinions are, what people think. We can't control it. So there's no point in trying to, you know, in letting that ruin your day.

1:10:10How do you think he would have reacted if he did have a chance to feel and experience the outpouring of love? If he saw all of this, I think he would feel just so grateful and just, he would just know that would just be his confirmation of how important he was in this life. And I mean, to me, he was the most important person in my life to so many he was, but he just maybe didn't fully feel that confirmation. I'm not sure. But if he saw this, he would have that confirmation of, wow, I really left this legacy. I impacted so many people's lives and that's what he would want. And that's, he would just be, he would be proud of himself, but he would be right now, if he was able to see everything, he'd be so proud.

1:10:53Yeah, absolutely. Hearing about him from you has made me appreciate him even more, respect him even more and feel so much, you know, love for him through you and, and through all the beautiful memories and things that I read about when we found out the news, just to see him being honored and appreciated in that way is really beautiful to see. Whenever we lose someone that's important to us, I feel like we find a new part of ourselves because we lose an old part of ourselves. And there's part that of course always stays, but for you, what perspectives have changed? what's shifted for you through this journey that you've been on for him what what's kind of what's a lesson that's kind of risen to the surface I think just like you said I think that when you do lose somebody so close to you you do lose a part of yourself and I do feel like I lost half of me and if Liam were here he would want me to be strong he would want me to be brave and do things that make me happy and do things to honor his legacy and honor his name and to help other people.

1:11:57And I think for me, one of the things I just keep thinking about is what else can I lose in life now when I already lost the best thing in my life? Like what more is there to lose? Like how could it get worse? So in my mind, it's like, take the risk, do things, be brave, be strong. Don't lay in bed all day, get out of bed, live your life. And I have to live my life for Liam because I'm 25. He would never want me to be in bed all day, depressed. And I have those days. Don't get me wrong. I'm sad all the time, but I'm happy sometimes because I just think about all the memories we have. And there was like, there's never going to be a love in my life that Liam was one of a kind.

1:12:36The love that we experienced is going to be one of a kind. I'm never going to experience that type of love again in the future. Whatever is meant for me, it's going to be so different than what I experienced with Liam. And that's something that, you know, I'm so, I wouldn't change any part of it. and I don't regret anything. And it's something that it's like out of a movie. And I love him so much and I will continue to for the rest of my life. I just think that for me, just doing things that make me happy and that I know would make him happy. I'm just trying to do those things and be strong and just realize that life's short and take the risks, take the opportunities, do what makes you happy because you don't have much to lose.

1:13:19Okay, I want to thank you for, taking the risk being so courageous i'm hoping that everyone who's been listening today has felt through you a deeper sense of love for liam and the beautiful words you shared about him which i really do believe honor him and i really hope for anyone who's listening who's lost someone near and dear to them someone who's close to them feels a sense of peace and healing through you sharing your journey of grief and loss and everything that you're still going through and I think you've left us with some really beautiful reminders that I know I'm gonna hold on to of whether that's leaving the people we love letters whether it's making sure that we do what's right for us when we're going through loss because no one really knows what else we're going through and ultimately what you're really sharing with all of us that it's the oldest lesson in the world but it's the one we need again and again and more and more in this world today is that we have no idea what someone's going through you have no idea what's going on in someone's mind and it doesn't take anything and it doesn't cost anything to be kind and to be loving and to be supportive and I'm walking away from this conversation feeling inspired and touched and and close to the limb in a way that I feel grateful that I didn't have the opportunity to before.

1:14:46So thank you so much, genuinely. Thank you for having me. And I think opening up and talking about it really, really helps me with my grief. This conversation has really just done a lot for me. I feel before walking into this room, it's sometimes hard for me to talk about it, but I think leaving this room, I'm going to feel just addressing the good memories about Liam and just thinking about those, putting them out there for it to share with you, to share with your viewers, I think it's just so important and it's made me feel so much better. So thank you for having me. I'm glad. No, thank you.

1:15:20That means the world to me. And it's another lesson in that, that when someone's ready to talk about it, when they feel comfortable, it can actually help with their healing. So thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past. Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50%, and skip the hassle of circling the block.

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1:16:41Have you ever brought your magic to Walt Disney World like, hey, we came to play? Did you tip your tiara to a Creole princess or get goofy officially, step up like a boss and save the day, or see what life's like under the tree of light? Did you? If you could. Would you? when we come through it's true magic cause we came to play bring the magic at Walt Disney World Resort this is an iHeart Podcast