KEKE PALMER: "At 17, I Had a Midlife Crisis”

20:42I could not leave out an opportunity to build something else practiced by Palmer, which is these are the practices that helped me be able to be the person that I am in business. You have to be good in your mind. You have to know who you are. And there's no way to stay in touch with who you are in this world without having some type of forms of rituals. You know what I mean? That's why a lot of people are like, oh, I'm not religious or I'm not. At the base level, it's a ritual. It's something that you can go to. You know what I'm saying? Even though I grew up Catholic, I have not been consistently to a Catholic church in years.

21:12But those rituals, Lord, not lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. You know, it grounds you. It's a conversation at the baseline of what it is. If you take away anything that you think about religion, it's a conversation with yourself. It's a conversation with the universe. Hey, you know, this is what's on my mind. You need to get that stuff out. That's how we know what's going on inside us. The journaling, spending moments of silence and seeing what comes up into your mind. And, you know, it don't have to be quiet. I remember when somebody first heard me that mindfulness isn't just your mind being quiet.

21:43It's actually you watching your mind be not quiet and actually just sitting back and being like, now that was interesting. I'm going to let you rock. You know what I mean? Like being in that space. Like so for me, it's like that is so important to go side by side. To me, you are not a successful person if you can't be with yourself, if you can't know who you are outside of your achievements. And I just I really was afraid of I didn't want to be lost. and I think it was also scary the feeling of having all so many things stripped from me at that age I saw like I've got to always be okay if the money not there if the projects ain't there if the people don't care I gotta be okay because this could take me for a tailspin

22:25Jay Shetty:if you ever open up a church I'm there I'm telling you right now yeah I'm like I want to come to your monastery I've been going to the wrong thing this is like I'm like I'm in church right now this is Come on, Frazee. No, but as I'm listening to you, I'm like, wow, it's so fascinating hearing someone. What I love about this is I feel like everyone at their point in life comes to recognize the value of this work, whatever you call it, whether it's religion, spirituality, therapy, coaching, work, the work. Everyone comes to it in their own way. And when I hear people's stories about how they found it, it's never the same.

22:59Jay Shetty:It's totally unique. It's also someone from such a different background and walk of life. Like I found it at the same age as you did, but I found it in a completely different way. And it was a completely different whirlwind and experience that I was having. But the fact that we both have so many things in common, even though we come from totally different backgrounds. I would say, well, I really related to your story when we talked on the show, even though I didn't go necessarily specifically in that path. I still have done entertainment work. I love it that much that I could see that for myself.

23:25So I'm like, I love your life because it's like you get to do that every single, you get to talk about stuff that I think is so meaningful. I mean, I'm not trying to say entertainment's not meaningful because everything plays a part. Sometimes you want to lose yourself in a project. Sometimes storytelling is the only way you can understand something. So those things are absolutely useful. But what I love is just the opportunity to also bring it back to the attention to that. Because as human beings, it's really scary. Just don't think we talk about it enough. We don't know why we're here. We don't.

23:53We don't know if we're like a cell microbiome in some big giant's life that lives on another planet. Like, we don't know.

24:00Jay Shetty:Some sort of experiment. These are the things that go into your mind. And obviously there are ways that there are things that people do believe about that. But at the base line of it is it can feel really lonely. It can feel really scary. You don't know if you should try to achieve something and be quote unquote successful or just be over there in a village by a lake with your family and do nothing and just appreciate the opportunity of being. All of us are trying to figure it out. And so I love when we can talk about that because it's like that's the real stuff. That's the stuff that sometimes can drive you crazy or make you a narcissist, as they say, because you just want to feel like you matter.

24:36You know, at the core of that is just I want to matter. I want to know that I mattered and that my life meant something. And that's something that any of us can relate to. So it brings me great joy because it's always in my mind.

24:46Jay Shetty:Did you find that a lot of the people around you as you were coming up as a child star were struggling with that as well? Yes, most of them were turning to different things to help them. And I felt like my parents were overprotective of me then. I felt very alone. And I felt like all I had was my journal and that I didn't have anybody that I could talk to. And I had one friend who just passed away named Brandon. Yeah, he was my first boyfriend. He passed away recently. He passed away recently. Sickle cell anemia, only 34 years old. So sorry to hear that. And he was my friend that I would talk to a lot.

25:18And I had my friend Taylor Parks. Like I had very few friends that I didn't get to see often. and my journal, you know, I mean, thanks to MySpace, I was able to talk to them. Tom, I'll always love you. I will always love you. Okay. So I, it was very, you know, I had a couple of people, but I felt very alone dealing with things that I, and I didn't have anybody to relate to because I didn't have a lot of friends in the industry. The ones that were, were, it wasn't the same, you know what I mean? Gravity. And a lot of kids my age, I could see now, like when I had conversations with people like Demi, I wish that I did talk to them.

25:49I think I also felt very isolated being a lot of times the only black and my experience with being the only black in my school back in illinois was like stay in your lane girl you know what i mean so i was obviously the star of my own show and i never was like putting my hair down but i kind of was like i don't know if i'm really what we really talking about like i really didn't know so i was just like showed up hey we polite we talk but we weren't really necessarily getting into it because we didn't have the language that we have now like there was no words for microaggressions there There was no words for, you know, what that felt like, any of those nuances.

26:20And so, but when I see now, I see that we all really was dealing with a lot of different, you know, in our own way, but a lot of the same things. And I wish that we all could have talked, but there was no space for that. You know, so a lot of times, you know, people were sex or drugs or whatever it might have been for them to be able to cope. And honestly, for me, I was a really an Internet kid. I went to the Internet and I still be on there. You know what I mean? You know, so it's like I was I was the kid that was you found the good side of the Internet. Man, it was, I mean, we had some times, you know, those early days with the wild, wild west.

26:51But I really do feel grateful to have experienced MySpace. I really found some really genuine people.

26:56Jay Shetty:Wow, you're giving some big shots to MySpace. Honestly, because it was the place where I just was coding. You know what I mean? I was meeting friends and learning about the space. I was having so much fun being able to express myself on my small corner. And it was private, right? Because this is before Twitter. This is before, you know, entertainers being online. this is like back in the day me and any of the friends that I had or I should say peers colleagues that I had on Disney and Nickelodeon we had private pages like our names would be like Fanny Fanny Tutu you know what I mean because we're like trying to be like all incognito you know what I mean so it was like before all that time and it was the one place that I felt like I could express so that was a saving grace for me what's it like now what are the rituals now I thought you were about to say with the internet oh no we'll go there later maybe Maybe.

27:44Jay Shetty:Maybe. We'll see. Sorry, go ahead. Actually, let's go back a step. When you were 18 and you're looking forward and you're like, God, I've got to learn all these things and I've got to learn the mindset and I'm watching the Will Smith video and whatever else it may be. Did you ever think you would find the answer or did you feel scared that you may never know? I actually did believe. You did believe. I really did believe. I didn't know when though. So I had to really have a lot of patience. But I did believe. I believe that if I keep, why would that not happen? If I keep chipping away, it's like that picture that goes viral every two years where the guy's like chipping away and he turns around and he was just there.

28:19Yeah, he's just there. I really believe that like there's no way if I keep chipping away that I won't get to wherever I'm trying to be. I really truly believe that. And so even though it will be hard in times, and then you see small things like things that stuck. You know what I mean? Like things that were like, oh, I went from working out every now and then to now it's a part of my every single day. Or, you know, I went to, you know, only going for a walk X amount of times a year. Now I'm doing them X, you know, I'm doing thousand steps, you know, whatever it is. I started to see those changes.

28:51But my attitude is, I think a lot of times you think you're going to have a new mind. But my mind is actually just so much more compassionate. The new mind was compassion for myself to be able to grow. Like, I realized that it was not like a new person that I would be, but that it would be like, it would just be a version of me that supports the person I've always been. You know what I mean? And giving myself a safer place to land and being okay when things don't go right and knowing that I can get right back up again instead of thinking that, oh, I messed up on Monday. I guess I don't get another chance till Friday.

29:23It's like, why would that be the case? You still have the opportunity in the next couple of hours even to decide to have a better mood. So I think that's the cool thing that I've discovered when I think about me in my 18 and those early teen years of getting into awareness of myself with intention, it's like, wow, like I didn't become a new person. I just started being nicer and more loving and supportive of the person that I've always been. And because of that, I've bloomed. You know what I mean?

29:51Jay Shetty:That is so good. That is so good. No, because I think that's, we constantly convince ourselves that you're going to become a new person, that you've got to become a new version of yourself. And you're so right that it's actually just seeing the version that already is there, that exists, that lives, that breathes, that has all the skills, the potential, the tools, the mindset, and being present for that version and being compassionate. Because if you're always telling yourself you have to be someone else to be successful. Well, that just sucks. You're just being so mean to you. You know, Brene Brown speaks a lot about that kind of thing with the shame piece.

30:23And it's so interesting how that can show up in your life. And you just, you don't think that that's what you're doing. But you are. I think I used to feel so much shame or guilt around my large capacity. So I would constantly outsource it. And then I'd be so sad when I got nothing back because it was like that, the capacity, that abundance, it actually should be inward. And I shouldn't feel guilty that I can pull myself up or, you know, decide to go out there for my goals or, you know, instead of always feeling like it's my job to make other people feel great about themselves because they don't have that energy.

30:54Well, what would happen if I, you know, I gave that when I could and when I felt like doing it, but I gave it back to myself.

31:00Jay Shetty:Yeah. And it's like, damn, yeah, I needed this. And now I see how I feel when I'm actually giving what I've been giving out to me. Yeah, yeah. You know? And we feel selfish when you first do it. You do. Right? And I don't, it's a guilt. It's a shame. It's a shame around seeing something, having insight around something, feeling something, knowing something. For whatever reason, I don't know what that is. But as human beings, the moment that we feel that we have a lot, it's just so weird. I don't know what that does, But, you know, yeah, I feel that that that I've had to deal with that, that I felt shame since I was a little kid being able to be happy even.

31:38You know, and those are like priceless things. But I think I felt guilt about it, that I was able to be so happy even when we was living in poverty and nothing was good was going on. I felt like I could find a reason to have joy. I could get out on the floor and dance and be, you know, I always felt like that. That was like a superpower for me. And I felt like I'm guilty about that because everybody else can't be happy. Now it's my job to make everybody, you know, and it's like, that's different. It's a different feeling of giving because you want to and then giving because you feel that people need you to.

32:06And you're like guilty. Giving from a place of guilt and shame for having joy as opposed, you know, that can really distort the gift.

32:15Jay Shetty:Yeah, when you feel you're responsible for other people's emotions, that just sends you down the wrong path. Whereas when you feel you're on your path and you can overflow and give people the love that they deserve and need, that's a totally different thing. And it's such a fine line. Yes, it is. For people with big capacity, especially. Because sometimes just your presence is enough. I can relate to everything you're saying right now. You know, because you get, and that's your work. And that's just so cool. I remember one time I was talking too, and I'm sure I would. This episode is brought to you by Indeed.

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33:26Jay Shetty:That's indeed.com forward slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.

34:05Good energy in. Good energy out.

34:13storm zero sugar 200 milligrams of caffeine and immunity support storm energy for life love to hear if you have a version of this one of my um teachers one of the people first that were mentoring me on this pass was a makeup artist and she introduced me to another kind of master yogi type of person and but i could only call him at a certain amount of time he was only available till a certain amount of time and if you didn't catch him you didn't catch him and You also cannot call him after this time. And so I would talk to this man every now and then. One time I called this man at literally like the time was like 8 p.m.

34:47I called this man at 8.01. He answered the phone. Why would you call me? Why would you call me? It sounded almost like we was in Beyond Belief Act of Fish and he was going to disappear after this. It was like so urgent. He was like, why would you call me? Why would you call me? And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have never been able to contact that man again. No. I have never been able to reach him again. Never have been able to. It's like gone. It's like gone in the wind. Like, it's like he's gone. You know what I mean? And I say that to say, like, I really respected that he had clear boundaries.

35:21He had a large capacity. Millions of people probably called that man every day to tell him about something, to talk to him about a new path. but he had very clear boundaries to the point where he said you didn't follow and you can't be involved because I have a lot to give and I have to protect it so that I can keep giving it to its full capacity so that made me think with you I'm sure that you have so many friends that's calling you that's telling you do you have something that you try to let them know like I'm not open for business with this right now you know what I mean well I have a rule that I don't give friends advice because I just want to be a friend.

35:58Well, guess what? We're not friends. We're not friends. All right. We're not friends, so I'm going to call you.

36:03Jay Shetty:Yeah, exactly. You can call me. Yeah, we're not friends. Because I used to feel like when we'd be just hanging out and someone's talking about their problems, I don't like giving unsolicited advice. That's first of me. Like no one needs unsolicited advice. So that's first of all, I don't give that. But what I didn't like was like friends would be just talking about their problems and I'm like, oh, Jay, tell us what to do. And then no one's going to follow up and listen to it because they're your friend. So they're not going to take it seriously either. So I'm like, look, I'm just going to hang.

36:26Jay Shetty:We're just going to talk about soccer or something. Talk about the basketball. Let's just be friends. And it's safer that way. And then when someone's coming to you, asking you for advice, truly locking in, truly saying, hey, I'm taking this really seriously. I'm not asking the group chat. I'm coming to you because I want your help and support. I'm locked in. I'm there to help, of course. But that was my boundary setting where it was like, if we're committed to each other, that you want to do the work and I'm going to help you, then I'm in. But if we're just giving free advice and hanging out that's not going to help anyone because we're all going to feel spent.

36:57Jay Shetty:But I mean I should do the 801 thing. That's what I should do. That motherfucker ain't here. That's what I should do. I was trying to get back to him for years. He was like you're done. But it's so important because I feel like we find ourselves doing that too like I can at least say for myself where it's like when I take a step back like everything that I was trying to tell others or support others on even if they ask even if we were just having a conversation and I accidentally spilled extra over, those were things that I needed. And so I've really been in a season of restraint. Even if somebody asks me, I'm not telling them what to do or telling them.

37:30I'm just being a listening ear and allowing my presence to at least just be a bouncing board, which is so funny because that's what we always say a good therapist is anyway. Like, you know what I mean? A good person that you actually are going to for help generally pushes you toward the answers that you have yourself. So it's so funny how you can be thinking that, you know, it's your job, it's your duty. And it's like, actually, your best thing is to just be there, to listen and to reflect. And so in my season of restraint, I feel like, hey, I'm getting so much of the things that I thought that other people needed from me.

38:03I'm actually realizing how much better off I am by having my relationships reflect information to me. And instead of thinking I'm supposed to share it, but actually like leaning into the intuition myself, seeing what reality reveals to me. And then also taking what I learn or what I'm seeing reflected in the relationship and actually turning it back into myself and say, well, what's my relationship to this? If I think that that's what's happening with this person, is that showing up in my life? Instead of thinking I'm supposed to tell the person something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:31Jay Shetty:What's that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we feel better when other people are doing worse. And obligated. And obligated in some way to be like, by the way. Yeah. A Virgo is good for some by the way ass shit. I'm a Virgo. Oh! I threw it. we can be really if we're not healed we can be actually what's your birthday august 26th i'm 6th september that's crazy we can literally be by the way i had to really control that i had to rein it in me too by the way aries you're not you're not free oh really why are you calling out aries aries love to be like actually What's Leo? Leo is a Leo rising, a Taurus moon, and a Pisces sun.

39:20He's not an actually person. He's actually like actually your ass. Leo is like Tia and Tamara. I got my own mind. I do my own style at my own time. He is so unbothered. Oh my gosh. Well, they say Pisces are perfect opposites of Virgos.

39:39Jay Shetty:Oh, interesting. My sisters are Pisces. Very let it flow. Very let it go. Very. My son is so present and so like, he cool, you know? Yeah. Who gave you these blue eyes? They are remarkable. Complete anomaly in my family. No one has them. They're just awesome. No one has them. I got really lucky. I grew up with jokes about how my mom had an affair with the milkman. Oh my gosh. It's giving Pitbull. Pitbull got those eyes too. Does he? Does he? Yeah, he got blue eyes. I didn't even notice them on Pitbull. Oh, that's so funny. Mr. Worldwide. I never knew that. Wow, that's funny. Yeah, no, complete anomaly.

40:08Jay Shetty:You're so like when you walk into a room, you're such a force. Oh, my God. You're just such an energy, a spark, like whether it's a big room, a small room like this, whatever it is. How would Lauren walk into a room? Well, she would probably walk in and not feel like she had to make people feel comfortable about it. See, I think that I always knew that the energy existed. But because it would make people feel some type of way. And I learned this very early on when I started going to private school because the teachers were like, stay in your life. The energy was clear that for whatever reason, however I was perceived on the outside, the power that I had within was not allowed.

40:45And so I just I learned not to silence the power, but to make it more palatable and make it a little bit easier for you to get into. And that's when my that's one of those skills sets, you know, of me being able to regulate a space or be able to translate who I am, whether through code switching or charm or whatever it could be called. That was me trying to create safety for myself. And it was the best way that I knew how to create safety. And then there are things that they are part of me. You know, they're who I am. But now I don't always feel like, you know, or I'm at least better about where I choose to go.

41:20If a place requires me to do that, to be safe. Because ultimately, that's where it came from. It came from a place of feeling unsafe. Showing up, being seen as powerful, being felt as powerful. Power that I didn't even know that I had. And trying to figure out how to make sure that it was hands up, don't shoot, basically. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. as a young Black person and as a young Black woman. And so it was just me managing the fear that that would put into others.

41:45Jay Shetty:Did you have experiences like that that felt very, very unsafe? Oh, my gosh, yes, all the time. You know what I mean? Whether it was with, you know, misogyny and then also racially. When people feel like you are challenging the status quo in some regard. Also, I saw it in history. I remember having a conversation with somebody, you know, and I was thinking about like Martin Luther King, you know what I mean? And it was like, that's a fear that black people really genuinely feel. Anybody that is a person of color or dealing or from a particular group that decides to stand up, a lot of times they've been murdered.

42:19You know, they've been attacked. Caring about my community, being passionate. You can't be Michael from Good Times and actually live long. That's what you've seen the pattern to be. and so yeah very young knowing that I had impact doing movies like Akilah and the Bee my community saying we got became kind of afraid at a certain age where it's like well I don't want nobody to take my ass out you know what I'm saying I want nobody to be afraid of me you know or think I'm gonna do you know what I mean and I remember after I did one of the marchings that we were dealing with and I say one of the marchings because there's so many that it gets to the point where it's like you know right after George Floyd died I was like I just something had come over me and I was I had a moment with the National Guard that people filmed.

43:01And I remember being really, really scared. But I think that that marked like a moment in my life where I maybe was trying to come out of that fear because I was spooked that like, I remember calling my mom like, they're probably going to get me for this. So I'm going to be, I was really spooked that people are going to get me for just standing up for my community in this way. And it was really scary to me, but something had just come over me in that moment. And it was, it was during COVID and everything was so, and I felt just so like, I just was like, I, I just can't believe this. You know, I was just so unhappy and just But I didn't want that to make me silent.

43:30And then it was just so much feelings that I had to do that. But I was a little bit scared. But I feel like it was the marking of me kind of shedding some of that fear. And also like being able to understand and articulate some of these things. But you're constantly trying to figure out how to manage these things. You know what I mean? From whoever you are, whatever background or whatever you believe in, you know, we're all dealing with some challenges. And I remember I would have these experiences like going to Harvard and Harvard would be doing a thing on me and they would be talking to me about power.

44:01And I would be trying to figure out, like, why am I the case study? You know, so it took me many years to understand what I was holding, how I was affecting people and why it was such a thing that I had to manage all the time and then to be at peace with that.

44:14Jay Shetty:Yeah, it's amazing how we develop all these skills and tools in order to feel safe. And then they become the very things that make us feel unsafe, because we get so disconnected from who we are deep down. It's so fascinating, isn't it? You ate that! You ate that! It's like our protective tool became too good. Yeah, it's like how your protective tool suffocates you, which is like a fascinating idea when you think about it. And we all do that as kids. For me, watching my parents argue, watching my parents behave in the way they did, I was picking up cues. And I can walk into a room and I know every energetic field that is going on in a room, in any room.

44:52Jay Shetty:I can listen to each corner. I know what's happening over there. And I can be fully present over here because I had to. I didn't have a choice. And I love that skill. Yeah, I love that skill. I love that tool. And at the same time, it can take away from being able to flow and have human experience. And so you have to be aware of it. So you almost have to be aware of the tools that you built to protect and make sure they don't suffocate you. What have you done to create those spaces where these incredible tools you have that you use so wisely, you've learned how to be really effective with them.

45:24Jay Shetty:And at the same time, they are true to you. They're not inauthentic. But then how have you allowed yourself to put the sword and shield down sometimes? and breathe. Like, what does that look like? Well, I think when I did my TED Talk, that was a big moment of reclamation. That was amazing, by the way. Thank you so much. I want you to know my whole team once there and everyone was like raving about it. So just so you know. Thank you so much. That was a big moment of reclamation for me. Parasocially, I think in my personal life, you know, like I said, my practices, holding space for myself over time have allowed me to let those things, have those moments of breath, you know, But parasocially, that was an opportunity to really also speak to my audience about that differentiation.

46:05My nuance outside of just being fun and joyful and energetic is I have feelings. I'm a human being. I've had my experience in this and becoming this has cost me a lot of things. My nervous system is readjusting from all these experiences that I've had and that it's okay to be nuanced and complex and that I don't want to be the poster child for hyperfunctioning if it doesn't sit alongside this truth. That was like a big, big moment for me in my life. Now everything is integrated because it was always fragmented from my private life and my professional life. And so that was a big moment of integration in a major way.

46:40Again, being able to speak the truth, being able to speak truth to power, that is the greatest liberator of that voice that's inside that had to rest, is to actually speak truth on the things that I experienced and what it cost me and how I had to learn this stuff and that adaptive intelligence and what performance is and what is authenticity that lives inside of that. Like these are conversations that I felt like I wasn't allowed to have or I couldn't have. And a lot of times in the early days, people didn't want to have. Nobody can't give a damn about this. You know, they didn't want to. You had to just be ready to go and be.

47:13Totally. Job. Like, you know, you want to be just, hey, it's too much. So it's like if you talk, if I can have the conversation, then I can have the conversation. So I'll also say time. And that's why I've taken care of yourself. I'm so happy that I did those things so that when the world also was arriving at these times. that I could share this truth because people could be open and ready to hear it. And so I felt like that was also true for my generation, how I came up in this industry and what it took for me to get here. It was like also waiting for spaces like this to exist. I feel like, you know, I mean, obviously podcasting exists back then, but it was called talk radio.

47:51Jay Shetty:And you weren't having conversations like this. Right, you know, and so also we've all caught up to our period. it. So it's like a collective shift that has gone on that I get to be a part of. No, for sure. And you were ahead of it. You were doing it when it wasn't trendy. So now that it's kind of come into vogue. Yeah, which is crazy. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Health AI. We've got to talk about those panicked internet searches. You know, the ones that I'm talking about when something about your body just doesn't seem right. So you search and search and scroll and scroll and trying to figure out your body by endlessly looking for answers.

48:29Jay Shetty:Thankfully, now there's Amazon Health AI. It can connect your symptoms with your medical history, and it can even get you care 24-7. So call off the search, Amazon Health AI is here. Healthcare just got less painful. When you were talking about your childhood, I remember having what now I know are panic attacks or anxiety attacks. And I'd go to the doctor, the doctor would wire me up with this like crazy technology checking my heart rate checking my heartbeats and then 24 hours I'd have to wear it at school it would look really weird and then the next day I'd go back and be like there's nothing wrong with him and I'm like mom there's something wrong with me like I'm having an experience we just didn't have language for it and so what you're saying about language is huge but vocabulary emotional vocabulary is just so huge and I feel like people being exposed to ideas and words is so important I mean I didn't even realize that how the recursive like kind of like boom that is when I was thinking about the fact that I did Akilah and the Bee.

49:26This movie that, again, it's inspiring in many different ways, but for me, it became re-inspiring because it's like, yes, a little girl having language to express how she feels. That's crazy. Yeah, that is powerful because words, once you can put words in, I mean, we can get all into Lacan that words have different meanings for other people. Like, You know, yes, of course, love doesn't mean the same to me as it means to you. But if we're generally speaking, having the words to define and articulate how you feel with precision is without a doubt liberating. And that's why the TED Talk experience was so major for me, because it was a moment that I had to sit down, actually write.

50:08And I'm going to tell you something that was crazy, too, with this whole TED Talk thing. So I was getting ready to film a movie right in the middle of when I'm getting ready to do the TED Talk and have the TED experience. and I was fine with it. I was like, I'll go in, just do my talk that one day. I won't get to do the whole TED, but I'll get to do my talk that one day. That'll be fine. In the midst of me, you know, preparing for my talk, we're preparing for the movie and they're chipping away at a lot of stuff. Like the movie was supposed to be a certain amount of days. Now it's damn near two days.

50:37Not literally, but you know what I mean? It ain't a long time. The movie was supposed to be this much money they doing with it. Now it's crunched this much. Okay. That's going to make things harder for us as well. You know, all these little things started to happen that started making me feel really just not happy and uncomfortable. You know, and in the midst of that, they were also chopping down my TED days. So originally I was going to have all my TED days and be able to have the experience. But then suddenly that stopped going from that to me just having the one day. And I was still like, all right, fine.

51:03Then they call and they say again, and pretty much they're going to take away the TED day. And I did something that I've never done before, which I am still so proud of myself doing this. I said, I'm not doing the movie. Wow. I'm not doing the movie. I'm done. Because by the way, I already didn't want to do the movie. The truth of the matter is I was already doing the same shit that I'm talking about doing in this speech that I ain't doing, gonna do no more. I don't feel good. It doesn't make me happy. I'm not going to enjoy this. This is requiring me to chop off pieces of myself that matter to me.

51:42Man, when I tell you that I said no to that movie and I felt so liberated and had my experience with my TED conference and had my talk and was able to feel truly embodied in that moment and to know that I was actually making choices that really were real for the person that, the true, full person that I am. That was a moment. I'm so proud of myself.

52:04Jay Shetty:I'm proud of you. That's amazing. I'm so proud of myself. Those are the hardest moments, though. when you're put to the test yeah yeah exactly you're up there saying the thing and then you almost have to live it i've i've had many of those moments and those are the hardest because you can tell whether you're in alignment or you misalign yeah because you're like i'm saying this thing over here but and it's so crazy because then to get the feedback that i had gotten on my ted talk i look i just like god is just so real to me you know because it's like god will show you life will show you and it's not about like just data and insights it's about impact It's about the fact that somebody comes up to me and they say, girl, I feel the same way.

52:40And this is what I've been experiencing with my family. Like, I love doing movies and I love performance and I love all that type of stuff. But you can't take these. If something is going to take moments like that away from me, true connection like that for me, then it ain't right. I know that it ain't right. If it doesn't feel good, if I'm not liberated and excited about it, then it can't be. It can't be correct for me. It can't be true. And so that really was a big moment for me this year. It really was.

53:04Jay Shetty:At the beginning, you kind of can cut corners You're trying to figure your way, right? Not everything's going to be fully aligned when you start You have to do certain things You have to compromise But then when you get to a certain point That's why you get to that point, right? To your point, about that point You can't deny the awareness I had become so aware I had become much too aware When you started, you don't know But once you are aware I was aware that if I said yes to that movie And didn't do what I wanted to do with Ted I would have been betraying myself. See, these other situations, the self-betrayals are not as glaring because we don't really even know how to really show up for ourselves.

53:43We're still trying to become aware of what we want. But once you become aware of what you want and aware of what's not in alignment with that and you decide to still do what's not in alignment with that, well, now you're going to have me dealing with I betrayed myself. And that, once I become aware of when I could be betraying myself, I'm not closing my eyes to that. Like you can't, I am not going to be blindfolded to that. One thing, if I can't really see it, I don't really know. And it's a delayed reality. But when I know straight out, this is the moment I was waiting for. What am I going to do with it?

54:14And I'm going to show up for me. I must.

54:18Jay Shetty:Pause. Pause. That was just, I want to go to this church. I'm waiting, Kiki. You got to set this up. I'm like, I'm all in. I'll be the first disciple. I'm like right there. I'll be the first student to sign up and subscribe. I'm in. I'm so in. I'm like, I've never been this motivated in my life. I'm going to walk out of here and like change the world after this. You already do. No, no, no. That's the thing. No, but that's what I'm saying. You are the bomb. This is like, this is the most pumped up I've ever been on the show. I'm like, dude, you need to go out there and sort your life out. What are you doing?

54:48You are the bomb, Jay. I'm being serious. From one Virgo to another, man, we here.

54:52Jay Shetty:I'm being serious. I mean it. I'm not just saying it. I actually mean it. I'm being very genuine. You mentioned a couple of moments ago the idea of love. And I was thinking about a lot of our audience are young women. They're entrepreneurs. They're doing incredible things. They're winning at life. But the question that I constantly get is, Jay, I want to find the right partner. I want to find the right person. That's an important part of my life. What do you look for in a partner today with everything you've achieved, everything that you are, all the inner work that you've done? What do you look for?

55:18You know, this is a question I've been asking myself. I had a cool little moment with my mom the other day where it was kind of a realization of if you're not really wanting what you say you want, your relationships are going to keep failing. And I feel like because my parents were traditional, I thought that that's what I wanted. And by traditional, I just mean like, you know, married. You know, we are in a very just like my parents are so all American and ain't funny. You know, they found each other out of college, fell in love a year, got married. They left each other side since. They are an American story.

55:52And so I assumed that that was for me because I admire it so much. And I just thought it was just so awesome. But the truth was that actually is not in alignment with who I am in my life. My parents weren't entertainers full time. They weren't doing the kind of work that I were doing. They weren't dedicated to a passion in this regard. They don't have my same personality. They don't have my same makeup. They made me from that. But I'm not actually that traditional. I always loved whoever I wanted to love. Relationships can look any which way to me. Like, that's how they felt, even though I was trying to do something that I felt was the only way to do it.

56:28And so now what relationships look like for me is like, I'm somewhere between Uncle Jesse and Erykah Badu, probably. You know what I mean? I'm living with my family. You know what I mean? Like, I love that. You know, I want to be in my own house and I want to be in my own house with my family, with my sisters, with my niece, my nephew. Like, I always want us to have that. Like that makes me happy. So I don't think that my like love or relationship with me necessarily looks like we live together. Or if we do live together, we live together part time. Like when I'm coming to where you're at and I decide to stay with you for a little while and then I go back to my house.

56:59So there's a big space that has to be held for independence and freedom. That doesn't mean I want to sleep with everybody. That's not what I mean by freedom, although it could look it could look like that. It really means I just want to have my own space to be me. And I think that's something I used to lie about to myself about because I felt like I had to perform what it was to be a partner. That means we got to be together all the time. That means we got to do all this together. But that actually isn't what I like. And so then my personality change. I start being a little withdrawn. I don't really care as much.

57:26And now you feel like I'm lying, but I'm not intentionally lying. I'm just trying to be a role that I don't want to play. And I act most of the time. So now I'm tired of acting with you. And now the relationship is done.

57:37Jay Shetty:Yeah. And so I think what I'm learning about myself are those things. Right. I don't necessarily need to be with somebody all the time because I still want to be with my friends and I want to be with my family and I want to be with myself. That's number one. We have to have great sex. Sorry. I mean, that's that's a reliever. You know what I mean? You need that relief in life. So we have to have some type of passion and chemistry in that regard. I don't think I always was. Again, as a woman, you're not allowed to. You can't be truthful. But half the time, that's why you're mad. Because you're not getting that vitamin D.

58:11You needed it to be at a certain level and it was given not enough. So, you know, I got to be real about that. So I think that's important to me. And experiences. Like quality time. We could be on the couch watching a movie or show. Or we could be going on an excursion somewhere in the Alps. So experience. I think I see, I think for me, relationship love is less about what it looks like to other people, what relationships are supposed to be, and truly what makes me happy, what allows me to be fully myself, what's fun to me. Not that we don't have difficult times, but what is ultimately fun, respectful, and true.

58:51I remember I was talking to some guy recently, and he kept saying sorry every time that he would be late to a message to me or something like that. And I really wanted him to know, like, you're not obligated to me. We know, I know we vibing, and I love the vibing. And I love that you want to reach out to me, but I want to know that you want to reach out to me because you want to reach out to me. Not because you think I'm going to be angry with you or because the connection is then going to be lost. Because if you need time, I want you to know that I can hold space for you to need time for you.

59:19Because I want you to hold space for me. Because the truth of the matter is you don't want to talk to somebody all day long sometimes. Definitely.

59:25Jay Shetty:It don't mean you don't love them. Especially as you get older. You know what I mean? It don't mean you don't love them. It just means you need to be, you might need to be in your mind for a minute. Or you might need to take a break or whatever. and then you come back and say hey it was a hard day for me I know you ain't heard from me all day but I'm hold space for you because I don't need you to perform connection I need you to just be truthful in you and I think that's what it looks like for me now what is the truth for you and can you still love me in there do you still like me and then you still want to hang out with me if you still want to hang out with me then maybe we could be meant to be you know that's such a great answer i feel like everyone's doing some version of that forming folding molding performing right we're all kind of going oh you want me to be a bit more that then i'll be a bit more that and you want me to be a bit less that then i'll be a bit less that and then we end up becoming this version and then we resent ourselves and then that person doesn't like us either because it's like it's like all of it we failed at all of it so many times because i've just thought that i had to be this traditional vibe and it wasn't me so then after a while i'm tired of playing this role And it ain't even like there's some secret that you're hiding.

1:00:31It's like, I want to be in my room alone. And I just didn't take enough space for myself. And so now I'm mad in my relation because I've betrayed me and I'm resenting.

1:00:43Jay Shetty:We're scared that being ourselves will push the other person away. But then if you become the person they want you to be, you push them away anyway because... You don't like yourself. You don't like yourself. And you can feel that. And you can't do it for that long. How long are you going to do it for? And so it's so fascinating that, yeah, we'll say, oh, no, but if I tell them that this is what I want and this is what I need, then they might go away. And it's true. Like, that's what people are thinking. And honestly, maybe they should. You know, some of these people. This is that Virgo right now.

1:01:15We are having a Virgo in time. It's absolutely incredible. But it's true because sometimes you're doing all that shit and it's like that was never for you, girl or guy or them or they. That wasn't for you. And so we do have to really start being truthful so that we can actually be connected with the people that are on our same frequency. The more that we're contorting ourselves into being who we're not, the more that we're actually getting what we don't want. Which is just like so sucky.

1:01:42Jay Shetty:It's the worst. It's the worst. Do you find it hard to trust people? I think so. Even just put some mush it down with them. Trust. because I also feel like that my life comes with a lot of stuff that people can end up getting affected by. So it's hard, A, because I feel, you know, that my life is a lot going on and I don't want to, like, it's hard to trust someone with that weight. And so I kind of just say, well, I don't want to tell it because that's too much for you and I don't want to really put it on you. But then also, when I have let people into my world, the lights are bright. and the reality of it is every relationship is a little bit transactional doesn't mean that it's bad like you know there's always a gift somebody's gonna be getting something you're gonna be giving giving something and it happens back and forth and that's to me there's nothing wrong with that's that's humanity that's relationships but what happens sometimes with me is that sometimes people get stuff they didn't even ask for they get attention their perception could be either inflated or it could be deflated there's so much that they could get that they're not even aware that they could get that they didn't even necessarily want, but then they're then asked what they're willing to take.

1:02:54And I've been very disappointed a lot of times because I've learned that a lot of people will take more than they need just because it's there. And it's very human, but it's very hurtful to me because then I feel like I'm not being seen and valued really for who I am, but you're now being lost in the world of who I'm perceived to be. And you're willing to take whatever that world gives you. and that is an extraction actually from me. It's very extractive. So that has hurt me a lot in relationships. Being able to say it has become so happy. Because I would just feel it. I'm being robbed of something.

1:03:31I don't know what you're stealing, but there's something being dimmed. But I've learned now what it is that's happening and I hold grace for those people, but I create a healthy distance. Because without that awareness, you might rob me and I'm not open for theft.

1:03:46Jay Shetty:you know yeah people yeah people fall in love with your avatar they fall in love with that you know that 2d version of you and that happens to everyone by the way you don't have to be a public figure or be in movies for people to do that people fall in the 2d version of you and often that 2d version is the version they even made up of you and then the benefits that come with that 2d version and none of us want to be loved for that no because it's a caricature it's like it feels like erasure yeah it feels like you're being erased it feels like erasure it's like, damn, I don't matter. I don't. It's so funny because you find yourself in these relationships where it's like, again, this goes back to what we're talking about, where it's like, well, you erased that person first because you didn't speak the truth.

1:04:28You didn't actually say your boundaries. You didn't actually say your limits. You didn't actually. So they're only acting like you. And so it's really important for perception to not be something that guides you and for you to know yourself enough to know what is reality and what is just a figment of other people's imagination

1:04:48Jay Shetty:yeah yeah and we outsource that a lot what does my mom think what does my friend think what is my you know and and you can just outsource the biggest decisions of your life to the group chat that group chat need to be on pause yeah yeah it's like right now the whole world is up over here yeah but we do it yeah we do all the time we do all the time kiki we got a game for you that I want to play with you. Got a few more moments. Like this was made just for you. It's called, Does It Have a Little Sweetness To It? So I'm going to give you a scenario and you'll tell me if it's sweet or if it's a no-go when it comes to dating.

1:05:21Okay.

1:05:21Jay Shetty:All right? They create a playlist for you. Oh, that's sweet. That's sweet? I think that's sweet, a playlist. I just made a playlist. For someone? I did. They don't know though. Okay. What, you're scared of giving it to them? I'm scared. I'm not giving it to them. Oh, you're not giving it to them? I'm not. I'm scared. It's for me when I'm thinking about them. Oh, okay. It's like a playlist for me when I want to be the soundtrack of my mind. Okay. Morning, evening? All day. All day. Wow. Oh, wow. All right. Some lucky person can get this. All right. They keep a photo of you in their wallet. That's sweet.

1:05:50Jay Shetty:Okay. That's sweet. And their wallet is sweet. Yeah. Not their screensaver, though, on their phone. Screensaver or wallet? Just me. Screensaver is a bit much. I think screensaver is us. I'm happy with you. Got it. Just me. Screensavers cringe. All right, don't do that. All right. They bring you soup when you're sick. That's so lovely. That's so thoughtful. Absolutely. You're a very empathetic, compassionate, loving human being. Someone else would be a bit more savage with this. All right. They plan an entire date but won't tell you where you're going. I like that. Do you like surprises? Well, I like to know that I'm about to be surprised.

1:06:25So if he set the context of this is a surprise, then I'm cool. Sometimes surprise can be a bit much if I'm not in the mood for the – because I get overstimulated. And this is what I've also noticed with my son. The reason why my son is like that is because he knows he's overstimulated. And so he'll be like, back up all this shit. You know what I mean? Y 'all doing too much. That's what I actually feel. And so I've learned to, like, actually just say, like, don't. You know what I mean? Because I get overstimulated and then I become plateaued. It's too much.

1:06:51Jay Shetty:I get it. Yeah, I get it. All right, a few more. They write you a handwritten letter. Is it positive or is it negative? It's a love letter. It's a love letter. I'm here for the love letter. Okay. I'm here for the love letter. I love that. Oh, my God. Gosh, you're so easy to please. You're like, yeah, I'll take it all. That's the problem. They asked to take a picture together after the first date. Uh-uh. No. That's an absolute now. Picture together after the first date. What we doing is this is not a, no. No. I don't want that. There's no exceptions to that one. All right. They call instead of texting you back.

1:07:25Absolutely not. Do not call me ever. Ever? I'll call you. If I don't start the calling with you, don't call me I'm here for text I'm even here for voice notes don't call me

1:07:37Jay Shetty:I hate voice notes especially people talk so slow do you have your I'm like get to the point bro do you have your transcripts on I just read the transcripts half the time I literally I'm like I can't stand voice notes unless you have an amazing voice and I asked you to send me a voice note please do not send me a voice note please don't send me a voice note you are too funny they want to spend every day together obviously we know the answer to that one That's too much. It's not even because I don't like you, but we're not going to be good if we do this. Like, we're just not. I think what would be, like, really good, like, my minimum would be, like, once a week seeing you in person.

1:08:17That's, like, a stretch. Like, I would like to see you at least three times a week. I think three times a week is good. And then we can have space in between there. You know what I'm saying? Because let me miss you. I also have learned that I like that. That I like being able to come back to be so, my gosh, you won't believe what happened the last few weeks. days. I didn't get a chance to tell you about this. We need that.

1:08:35Jay Shetty:Yeah. You don't want that daily, just routine. Because what are we saying? Yeah. How's your day? Yeah. Yeah. They tell their mom about you after the second date. No, no, no, no, no. Has someone done that before? Yeah. Wow. Somebody had me meet their whole family. On this, after the second date. On the second date. How did you walk into that? I was going through a breakup. I said, hey. What did you do? Did you just go, hey? I just said, hey, y 'all. I mean, it turned into a tour. I felt like I was on a super fan tour. You know what I mean? That's the worst. I didn't have anything else going on.

1:09:09So I went with it.

1:09:10Jay Shetty:Last one. They dance with you in the kitchen. That's sweet. I love that. We're dancing in the kitchen. Yeah. That's sweet. I like it. It's a little bit of a movie. I like it. Okay, so this is good. There's lots of opportunities. I'm super sentimental. Yeah, me too. I am too. I think that's, is that the Virgo in us? Or is that just the hopeless romantic in us? We clearly have a similar personality. I don't know how much of that is our signs, but us having the same sign, I mean, it does seem like it goes hand in hand. We love genuine sincerity moments. Like that's always going to win with us. We don't like anything.

1:09:40Virgos don't really like when stuff is like just false.

1:09:43Jay Shetty:Yes, yes, yes. You know, so those things feel pure. Pure, yeah, and real. We talked about this, but I wanted to talk about it from the perspective of like, you just took on so much responsibility when you were young. And for me, it's like, I remember taking on responsibility for myself and that was hard enough. I started working when I was 14. I paid for my own phone bill, paid for my first car, paid for all of that stuff. But I wasn't taking care of my family. My family was taking care of me overall. So I'm like, I can't imagine what that does. What do you feel you've had to unlearn from your childhood?

1:10:10That time is over. Because I think that that was necessary at that time. You know, I come from a village, the village of Robbins. And community is everything. And I still stand behind those rituals. In order for my family to get out of poverty, that was what it took. But I just didn't realize when it was done. It did require a lot for me, but I didn't do it alone. My parents were there for me. It was definitely like it was a scenario. You know what I'm saying? It's like there's some things that like we've got to understand that like are systemically what happens. And it's not a scenario that you would hope for.

1:10:43But I felt like I could do it. And so I did my very best and my parents were there. And it was a business that we held up. It was a lot of it was on me because I was the one in front, but I didn't do it alone. They were there to support me. And so it got to a point where it's like, that's over. So everything that I had to learn to be during that time, I just didn't learn. And I'm going to have to have as many years of relaxing it to know that it's done with because I don't have to operate from that same level. Don't have to operate from that same place that the same thing that was driving me then or what I was feeling like I was up against.

1:11:18I'm no longer up against. And so I think that, like realizing that it's over, that we survived it, you know what I mean? It has been the biggest thing.

1:11:27Jay Shetty:Yeah, it's so hard, isn't it? Again, it goes back to those tools that you develop. You develop a mindset that gets you out of the mess. Yep. And then you have to let go of that mindset in order to get the next one. Exactly. And really, self-compassion is the main one. My feelings were not important. My desires to rest. My desire to be free. You know, see? So you see these collections of why I see love the way that I see it, you know, because being responsible for other people that I've exhausted that or feeling responsible for other people. I've exhausted that, that I've had enough time with that in my life.

1:12:01So being able to feel like I can be my own self, that's what's more connected to what is actually needed for me in my life, in love, in friendships and family. And so being able to be free, being able to be my own self, being able to say that I don't want this, being able to say that I'm tired of you, being able to say that I need a break, being able to say no to the project. Those are all versions of me reminding myself that I'm not in survival mode. I've survived it. We've survived it. I can truly be free.

1:12:35Jay Shetty:Kiki, I love talking to you. I love talking to you too. We have a ball. Yeah, we have a great time. I know, you're the best. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Okay. And so Kiki Palmer, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Never let someone else's perception of you be your perception of yourself. Good advice. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Ugh, that's hard. You don't remember any of it. Right, I probably had to block that shit out.

1:13:05I don't know. That was hard. Yeah, that's hard.

1:13:07Jay Shetty:That's good. We'll skip it. Question number three, how do you define a good friend? I mean, it maybe seems simple, but a good friend is somebody that lets you be you. You know, good friend is somebody that you don't have to perform around, that you can truly rest in who you are. Absolutely. Question number four, I want you to repeat this and finish the sentence. I think, I think too much about. I think, I think too much about systems and structures. Tell me more. I'm a person that's really driven on pattern recognition like that's like how my cognition functions I'm like constantly searching for the pattern we're literally the same person I love that I love that we have us now for each other because I'm about to be like because literally dude I just am always looking at the underneath underneath of the underneath of what caused that and why was that it's a good thing but sometimes it's like take a break babes just just stop looking for the reasons, the reasons that we're here.

1:14:14Sing it. Whose song is that?

1:14:17Jay Shetty:I don't know. I don't know why that popped into me when I just thought about that, but it's like I'm always doing that. And I remember back from when I was a little bitty girl in my grandma's house outside of a porch looking at the ants, studying patterns, systems, structures. I've always been obsessed with that, with my lines, the way I learn my lines, the way I understand words, the way that I understand experiences. Everything is based on that. And so it's obviously something I truly enjoy. You know, it's like math ontologically. It's like, you know, the experience of being able to recognize what's going to come next just because you're watching and learning through what you see.

1:14:53I love it. But sometimes I need to take a break and just be. And stop always trying to be Albert Einstein.

1:15:03Jay Shetty:I love that. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I hope nobody's mad at me, but I think that this would help us with all this over-manufacturing and everything like this. You don't have to be a vegetarian. Maybe you don't have to be a vegan. But let's be seasonal and have things for a period of time. Maybe only chicken this time of year. Maybe only beef this time of year. Maybe only fish this time of year. maybe only you know these vegetables when they're in season only like we know i feel like it would help us a little bit i think you know i've been thinking a lot about the global warming bit i've been thinking a lot about the earth and how we can try to get something under control i think it would be good if we did things marked off so that we wouldn't overdo it and then people getting sick and then now we got to pump everything up because we don't have enough of it well if it was only for this time of year or if we had years where it's like this is the year of chicken or this is the You know what I mean?

1:15:58Like, just, I don't know. I just feel like we got to get that under control. Yes. You know, so I would love to do something where the food and stuff was like, you know, more accessible, especially in food deserts. I grew up in a food desert. We only had a liquor store. I remember working the first time when I was a kid with this organization called Urban Farming because they actually would go in urban areas and farm because there was no access to actual food. Everything was just processed, packaged stuff. And so, like, you know, I wish that those things was free. I wish that people could have free foods that grow.

1:16:30They should be able to grow where you are, and you shouldn't have to pay for them. I know farmers is coming for me. I'm not coming for you, farmers. I'm not saying you don't deserve to be paid. I'm just saying that maybe the government could hook us up, help us out, you know what I mean?

1:16:45Jay Shetty:God. Kiki Palmer. You are the best. Kiki, you are the best. You have the best questions. You're the best. I'm the best. Honestly, I have not had this much fun on the podcast ever before. I have to give it to you. If anyone asks me what's the most fun you've had on the show, it's with you. I love you, Jay. Without a doubt. I mean, it's been seven years, too. So when I say that, it's a real statement. I feel the same. You're the best. I just knew that's why I was telling everybody because I was working today and I'm like, oh, it's going to be so great with Jay because he's going to be talking about something so interesting.

1:17:13I just knew. And so you didn't disappoint.

1:17:16Jay Shetty:Good. I'm glad. We'll come back anytime. Yes. I mean it. Thank you, Kiki. You're the best. Thanks, you. You're so much fun.