Kerry Washington ON: How To Shift Anger Into Compassion, Shame Into Strength and Break Generational Trauma

27:47He's never going to have back to back Mission Impossibles and like hold all the box off records and 30 years later be able to make another Top Gun and have it be the nominated for Best Picture. They have different careers, but neither is less valid. They're both winning. They've both won. And that's part of the challenge for me is like how to accept that this journey, my journey, is the journey. It doesn't have to look like anybody else is. It doesn't have to measure up according to anybody else's standard. And I think for a long time, because I wasn't comfortable with myself, because I didn't really know my story.

28:21And so I wasn't really living my story. I always felt like I was the co-star in somebody else's story, whether it was at work or at home or whatever, that writing this memoir was a little bit about like, I got that missing puzzle piece that helped me put myself at the center of my story. And then And I was like, I want to do the work to write that. I want to do the work to know what it feels like to center myself so that I can make sure that in this lifetime, I'm living my story and not chasing somebody else's. I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there.

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29:48Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only 5 calories per can. We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink. So visit drinkjuni.com today to elevate your wellness journey and use code ONPURPOSE to receive 15 % off your first order. That's drinkjuni.com. And make sure you use the code ONPURPOSE. Wow, you're speaking to everyone's soul right now. Everything you're saying, I'm like, oh, like, and it shows, right? I think when we feel like we can really understand someone we don't know or someone we haven't spent a lot of time with, it means that they understand themselves.

30:32Because we're at that humanity, that naked truth of just what it means to be human. Exactly. I'm listening to you going, wow, I think everything you just said, I think every creative person I know has expressed some part of that to me. I think there's parts of me that have grappled with that. If you don't mind, I'd love to offer you what you asked for earlier and you were saying you'd love to hear my thoughts. Yes, both as a coach, but also as somebody who, because I feel like I'm here, I should get free coaching, but also as somebody who is navigating the combination of the material world and the spiritual world and living in both of those spaces.

31:10Yeah, so from a coaching or even spiritual perspective too, because all my coaching is of that type. So the Sanskrit word for this is dharma. and dharma very loosely can be put to purpose but really what dharma is is almost like an inherent calling that you can't separate from yourself it is so in deep alignment and centered with who you are at the core that even if you try and push it away it just keeps pulling you back no matter no matter what that is and that isn't an activity like it isn't a title like i think today we think of like purpose or passion as a job or a like ceo is not a dharma exactly exactly ceo or actor or actress or podcaster or author isn't that's not your dharma it's like you're an artist who expresses yourself through many different ways you've written an amazing memoir you've done tv you produce you tell stories you know you have a you have two interview shows podcast and scripted like Like those are just mediums.

32:16But what I'm getting to is that there's a part of you where performance and the expression of emotion through performance is so core to what helps you heal and live and breathe in whatever way it is. It doesn't always have to be in a TV or a film. There's some part of you that loves to express and loves to feel in that way. And you can probably define it better than me. And what I've found is that we're always trying to escape that because usually in the same way as you're saying, because of the business aspects that make it seem dirtier, murkier, less pure, because it comes from such a pure place.

33:03Right. It's not coming from the place of wanting to win. Right. It's not coming from the place of wanting to be the best. It's coming from the place of like - Service. Service. Yeah. This just needs to get out. And that's something that I've found that it's really hard to shake that because it's almost like God, the universe wants you to use that in the service of others. And so I've rarely found, I've not found anyone I think that's been able to extract their dharma from themselves because it is inextractable. It's you. It's you. and it's what your spiritual identity yeah it sounds like it's it's your it's almost like what would be considered your spiritual offering in the material world it's what connects you to that spiritual world in the material world because without it and again by the way this is not a i'm just calling it out this is specific to carry and this is different for everyone if you did give that up and you went off and tried all the other things which you've obviously tried so you already know this.

34:10I don't even need to tell you. You can try it. And it's not that that isn't fulfilling. It's just that there's this thing that just keeps pulling you back. It's like the boyfriend you can't quit. It's just the spiritual boyfriend you can't quit. That's my dharma. I love it. Yeah, I think for me, it might be some sort of, there's something about the expression of emotional truth. It feels like my dharma is connected to holding space for emotional vulnerability or emotional truth. And I think in some ways, that's why I grew up in a family where truth was kept from me because it's like I developed like a heat seeking missile for like, I'm going to find the truth.

34:59I'm going to know what it looks like. If I can't express it here, I have to express it here. It was like it was kept from me so that I would learn to cultivate it and honor it and hold space for it. And I like I think about even when I'm working as a director, often my note to an actor in a scene is like, I just I don't believe you yet. Right. Like I want to believe you more. And I think there's something about like, I survived a childhood where I learned what truth doesn't look like. And so I'm really aware of what it does look like now. And it's so important to me. Yeah, that's so powerful. And it's almost like that's the acceptance that even I've had to make.

35:51I think for me it was on a very deep level, the business or the systematic approach to art, which you have to take if you want your work to scale or you want your work, like you're saying. the discipline of it or the business of it, as you're saying, the parts that we don't enjoy, like the, is actually what, at least from a very Eastern spiritual perspective would be like, that's the stuff that purifies you of the ego that comes from art. Ah, yes, of course. Of course. It's, I mean, it's funny because then when you say it, it's like, yes, this is what you learn in the ashram, right? This is what you learn in a yoga practice that like, you don't get to have the transcendent moment at the end of practice, sitting in meditation until you do the 20 sun salutations.

36:48Like they get you there. They open you up. They, they get you closer. It's the, it is the discipline that makes room for the, the goodness. If we just like woke up out of bed and we're immediately transcendent without any discipline, we probably, I would probably be a pretty horrible person to be around. I'd be like, I'm amazing. Everything comes so easily for me. Or the opposite where we end up in complete like dullness and ruin where we're like, it doesn't work and I can't do anything. And I, and, and it's, it's either or. And I find that when you have to reflect on the competitive aspect and purify that desire to be competitive, it gets you closer to your truth.

37:33When you have to sit in it and go, I don't care if I'm not Tom Cruise, I'm happy being Tom Hanks. I don't care if I'm not Tom Hanks, I'm happy being Tom Cruise. That is the purification of getting you closer to your truth. Whereas if you never had to do that activity, you almost could live in ignorance and ignorance is bliss. Well, if that makes sense. Again, I'm not saying I agree with how it's all done or run. I'm saying that's how i think you're trying to operate as a as a warrior in a on a war field as as you know like you're you're relishing the battle of it because you notice that the battle is actually forcing you to go more inward right because if you lived it outwardly it's just too much yeah if that makes any sense it does it does anyway but so we got lost on that yeah but no i i really appreciate where we're going with this conversation because I do think that, that I think all of us are caught within that battle for the truth in our own lives and our own truth in different ways.

38:31Yeah. This, this was interesting to me because I'm also picking out things that I think a lot of our community and audience can like. So there was one thing that said, being busy is one of the ways I create a sense of safety and control during times when I feel there is none. When I read that, I was like, wow, the amount of people that I know. To every workaholic out there. Literally. And it's hard to even become aware of that because there's joy in that. That's right. How have you allowed yourself to become less busy? Have you allowed yourself to become less busy? Or what has that awareness led to?

39:08Yeah, I do. I feel like it was, this was the period that I wrote this book. You know, what happened was about five years ago, my parents gave me some new information. I want to talk about that. Yeah, about kind of about me and our family and how I came to be. And that new information kind of turned my world upside down. And it came at a really interesting time in my life because I was just ending seven seasons on this like crazy successful hit show playing an iconic character. And I was in many ways asking like, who am I now? But I did have this fantasy that when that show ended, I would suddenly have a lot of free time.

39:51Because that show, I was filming 16 hours a day, you know, I don't know, nine, 10 months out of the year. And I was, you know, within the life of that show, I got married and had two children. And now I have three children. My husband came with one. And it was just like, there was no downtime. And I thought, when the show ends, I'll have some downtime. And I remember like a year after the show ending, I was like, oh, I might be the problem. Like, I don't think the show is the problem because I still have no downtime. And I am not the number one on the call sheet of a hit primetime drama. But I was finding other ways to fill my time and still finding moments where I was feeling overwhelmed and overworked.

40:31And so I really started to think about how I, if I was the problem, if I was the common denominator, if I was the issue, then how could I also maybe be the solution? And I think the truth is I do love to be busy, but I'm trying to check the intention of what that busyness is about. So making sure that I'm not saying yes to things because I just want to be in a constant state of cortisol spikes and not getting enough sleep and just feeling like I'm on a hamster wheel because then I don't have to deal with some other stuff. I'm trying to have the yeses come from purpose and passion and to have more no's to say no more often so that there's room to say yes for things that make me feel not busy, but driven and generous and like I'm contributing, you know, not just accomplishing, but really contributing, giving of myself.

41:34And I think that that feels like a tough, tough thing to do when you've been such a high performing person for a long, long time. And all of a sudden you have to reevaluate what performance means. Yeah. And what high performance means. Yes. And even start to redefine what success means, right? Like I think it's like we say to these corporations, like your success can't just be about the bottom line. Like, are you also thinking about diversity and inclusion? Are you also thinking about the environment in your bottom, you know, in your definition of success? And I feel like I'm trying to do that personally also, like think about success in the material world, but factor into that success.

42:13My life as a wife, my life as a mother, my life as a daughter. And I think that too was part of what made me want to write the book was to kind of be able to have the narrative of my life really reflect on all of it. Because when I sold a book idea, a few, right when the show ended, I sold this book idea that was like, here are the 10 things I learned about life from this character. And my parents had just given me this information about myself, but I, I was like, I'm not going to deal with that. I'm going to go sell this other book idea. And, um, and that felt like a book I could write because it was not really about me.

42:48It was about the character. And it was like very sticky, cute life lessons kind of a book. But every time I sat down to write, that didn't feel honest. It was like, I have this new information. I have this new curiosity. I have this new awareness. And if I'm going to write something about myself, then it has to be that. And I was like, well, I'm not writing that. So I tried to give the money back to the publisher and was like, I'm definitely not writing that. But eventually I did. Eventually I was like, what if I just try to write that, if I try to write what the story is, not just in terms of the movies and the TV shows and the, even not just the activism and the leadership, but really like what it might mean to feel like a successful human, like somebody who's living in truth, you know?

43:35Do you want to share, and I know the book goes into this in depth, you want to share, because you've referred to it a few times yeah the news that you received at 43 yeah yeah and obviously you talk about it at length in a book but i'd love to give that to people so that they have a context yes and if you don't want the spoiler then turn off the podcast yes this is the moment it is a reveal so if you don't want it yeah and i and that's and i recommend that too like yeah don't if you don't want to know the next skip over the next three minutes i'm such a fan i know that like you have those time codes at the bottom.

44:06So just skip to the next section. We'll put that on the time code. We'll put skip now if spoiler alert. Yes. Okay. So, um, so my parents sat me down, um, and told me that, um, that my dad is not my biological father, that I was born from a sperm donor. Um, and this was shocking to me and also not right. Like it was that thing of like, I was shocked because it was not the story I had been told and not the story we had been living, but also it made so much sense to me because there had been this sense of like, I felt like I didn't know myself and I felt a disconnect with my parents and I felt a disconnect with myself.

44:55And I never knew what to ascribe that to. I never knew why. And suddenly it was like the pieces all fell into place. It was actually like, it was like there had been this beautiful puzzle on the wall of our home that had this one wrong piece in it, but it was close enough that everybody just pretended that the painting was perfect. You know, everybody was like, it's gorgeous. It's beautiful. If you got close enough, you could see that there was a missing puzzle piece. But since we all ignored it, we all kind of forgot about it. And when my parents told me, it was like somebody finally took that wrong puzzle piece that had been like jammed into place and pulled it out.

45:34And we got to all be honest about like that piece was wrong. And we don't even know what the missing piece is because I don't know who the donor is, but at least now the painting is honest and I can maybe try to find that missing puzzle piece, but even just to know that the painting now is honest, felt like a gift. And why did they wait till 43? I think I was younger than 43 even. I was like, yeah, like 41 maybe. I mean, my dad, if he had his druthers, would have never told me, which is in many ways like infuriating, but also so beautiful because to my dad, I am his and he is mine. And there's no point in acknowledging any other truth.

46:21I mean, even to today, he'll he acknowledges it he's had to come to terms with it but it doesn't matter and in a really beautiful way like I am his and he is mine he is my dad he will always be my dad um but if he had his choice we would you and I would not be having this conversation this book would not be written like we would this would be that we would just be living in this other reality that which is you know, I'm his and that we belong to each other, which is true. It's just, there's more complexity, right? There's more nuance. It's not a binary. It happens to be that like, yes, we belong to each other.

46:58And there is this other figure that is 50 % of my genetics. They waited to tell me, my mom said that she was going to write a note for me and leave it in a safe deposit box so that eventually when they were gone, I would have this truth. I'm so glad that that's not what happened. I also wonder like when she was going to do that. Cause at the point that we were having this conversation, she had had cancer three times and was like knocking on 80. So I was like, exactly when was this note going to happen? Right. Um, so I think, I think it was hard. I think they didn't intend to be duplicitous or they weren't trying to lie to me.

47:38I think they, it happened at a time. I mean, my parents were way ahead of the curve. There were no, when I was conceived in 77, 76, there were no sperm banks. This was not something that people did. It was like a highly experimental, very secretive thing. There was no frozen sperm. It was all very, very cutting edge. And they were innovators and ahead of their time and risk takers. And nobody knew that 40 years later, you'd be able to take a DNA test and know where you come from. It just was like, this is a secret we will take to our graves. There's no point in telling her. We need to keep our family unit together and we don't need to upset her and we don't need to embarrass our family.

48:22And they eventually told me because I was going to do a show, Skip Gates has a show on PBS called Finding Your Roots, where they research your family background. And they do it a lot through record keeping and census reports, but they also do DNA tests. And so I told my parents I was going to do the show and they were really excited. And then I handed them one of these commercial DNA kits and my dad started having panic attacks. And I was like, what's happening? And so eventually they had to tell me why they didn't want to do the show and, and what the truth of our family history was. Yeah. Yeah.

48:57How have you trained yourself to be able to, I love what you said earlier. You were like, you wouldn't have told me if it wasn't, you know, for this, but you would have found it infuriating, but also the most sweet and beautiful thing and it's like how have you allowed yourself to accept two things existing at the same time because there's a beautiful statement by f scott fitzgerald where he says that the paraphrased version is that you know one of the greatest skills or talents of the human mind is the ability to hold two seemingly opposite ideas and allow them to coexist yeah and that's such a i feel like that's the art that's missing in the world today yeah the ability to accept that something can be painful and beautiful that something can be true and untrue in certain ways that and it feels like even though you were like looking for this truth and this puzzle piece and you have every reason because you've known it for your whole like it's so deep like you make it look so elegant but inside your heart from what you struggle it was such a struggle to be like what is this one thing what is wrong with me and what's wrong with my life and what is the secret and And then you find it, but then you still go, you have the grace to say, I understand.

50:12Like he is me and I am his. Like that beautiful statement that you just repeated twice there. I'm just, what has allowed you, how have you developed that ability to let two truths coexist? I don't know where it comes from. It comes throughout the book. I see it throughout the book. I don't know where it was born. I mean, I do know, I think maybe one of the first places that I started to think about it consciously, again, weirdly, was in my yoga practice. Because you learn in yoga practice that you must have this combination of being steady and strong, but also flexible and yielding. That the very practice of yoga only works if you can tap into the surrender of each pose combined with the commitment and strength for each pose.

51:01So that's one of the places where I think I started to learn what that feels like in my body. and think about it. But, you know, as I'm sitting here, even just my commitment to say and to help my dad say, it's okay for me to have two energies in my life that represent father, right? Like that this donor, this stranger, I have no idea who this person is. There's a whole team of people on the search, but I don't know who this donor is. But that person, because of the amount of genetic material that they've poured into me and therefore all kind of coding, that person represents some of the father energy in my story and in my life.

51:48But my dad is my dad, right? He represents the father energy in my life. He is the man who raised me and he has loved me like a father and he is also father. So even just like there's no way for me to live my life without embracing those truths. It just is the fact of my life. Maybe there's something about also like giving myself to these characters and like any one time having to be like a hundred percent that character and also a hundred percent me, um, that dance between like losing myself and coming back to myself and having space to be Carrie, but also Olivia or whoever that might be part of it too.

52:34I don't know, but, but I do, I know that at times I've seen this as a weakness that I, that I'm not more decisive or more, um, have more critical thinking skills. Um, but I, I do think it's, it is just a part of me that I hold on to multiple truths. Yeah. I would say that it, my humble observation, just from our conversation and reading your work is that your quest for the truth has actually ended in finding truths. Oh, yes. Right. Because that's right. Right. Like I feel like I'm finally able to tell my truth, but there's also this awareness as I sit across from my parents that like this is not the book they would have written and their book is no less true.

53:22It's just that's their truth and this is mine. Yeah, that's interesting. This is Doug Gottlieb for the Doug Gottlieb Show. The Toyota Tundra and Tacoma are designed to outlast and outlive, backed by Toyota's legendary reputation for reliability. Get in the Tundra with available iForce Max hybrid engine, delivering exceptional torque and towing capacity. Or check out a Tacoma with available off-road features like crawl control. It can take you beyond the trails. Toyota trucks are built to last year after year, mile after mile. So don't wait. Get yours today. Visit buyatoyota.com for deals and more.

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54:50Whoa, this thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search at Lenovo.com. Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. Yeah, and it's like that core of just being, I don't know, there's something beautiful in seeing you find your truths and being like, oh, there's actually so many more and there's so many versions. And that almost is more comforting and kind of reassuring that the version you have is not untrue. As you were saying earlier at the beginning, you were like, I was taught to like abandon my truth.

55:33That's right. Because again, someone had said, this is the truth. That's right. Because the other truths were too threatening. Correct. It's funny. I talk in the book about how when my parents told me, you know, I had spent my whole life saying, I love you to my dad. And it was true. I loved my dad before this revelation. But when I got this information, in that moment, I understood that this was an opportunity for a different kind of love between us because he had only heard me say I love you on the condition of a lie up until that point. Up until that point, every time I said, I love you, it was passing through this veil of pretending.

56:15And so there was a part of his unconscious that was made to believe because she thinks I am her biological father, she loves me. And once I had this truth, I knew I now have the opportunity to show my father what it feels like to actually be loved unconditionally. From this point on, every time I say I love you, it's despite this truth that you thought was too horrible to bear. That just hit me. It felt like such an opportunity for healing, you know, for us to be in the messy truth and still say I love you is so much better than to be in the pretending and to be loved. Because when you're pretending and you're loved, then you're loved for your pretense.

56:58You're not loved for your humanity. and you can just imagine what that felt like to him yeah that's it's wow that everyone's just going to replay that part again and again and again because no that's the part you want no spoilers in that part just listen because that is such a that is such a beautiful point carrie like that is that is so powerful what we all deserve it's like we it's what we all crave i think is to be able to like be our true selves and for that version of us to be loved, not the version where we put on the fancy clothes or we, it's like me at my most naked, most honest, most vulnerable.

57:38If I'm still loved then, then that's real love. If I have to work or to deserve the love, then it's, it's not based on me, you know? Yeah. Because you said in the book, before we got onto that, I was going to read these parts where you talked about when I started talking about my family and therapy for the first time in college, my concerns and complaints were exclusively about my dad. And you talk about how different we were, how often we disconnected. And you said like many 18 year olds, I thought I knew everything and my dad do nothing, which is so true. And then you go on to say, even as a young child, I felt that I was never who my dad needed me to be.

58:20I knew he really wanted a son and that they weren't having any more children. I got the sense that I could soften the blow somehow by being a daughter who was prettier or smarter or braver or more successful, but even that didn't work. What do you think that wasn't working? What's that part? I think what I was picking up and interpreting as me not being enough was really the disconnect between us caused by lack of truth. there was always like a moat, an emotional moat between who I was and who my parents were. Like I would watch my mother interact with girlfriends of mine, friends I would bring home from school, and people would tell my mother everything.

59:01People were so close to my parents. And I always felt like there was a little bit of arm's length. And so, you know, as a kid, I thought that must be me. It must be that I'm not good enough or pretty enough or successful enough or thin enough or whatever it is, accomplished enough. And so I thought maybe if I'm better, if I do more, if I accomplish more, if I'm busier, then maybe I'll be able to cross the moat. But the moat had nothing to do with me. The moat was their own protection because, you know, I realize now in hindsight, I would say like so many people are like best friends with their mothers.

59:38They talk to their mothers every day. My mother could never afford to be best friends with me because there was a secret that she was never going to reveal to me. You can't be intimate best friends with somebody who your fundamental truth of who they are, you're keeping that from them. So I was interpreting this emotional distance as being my fault, as being me not being good enough, but really it had to do with them trying to manage the relationship so that they could protect me from something that they thought I wouldn't be able to handle or just that would kind of destroy my sense of self or our sense of family.

1:00:12So it was this loving act on their part of trying to keep me okay and keep our family okay. But it did cause this break and this schism between us. And I just, I thought I could fix it. I thought if I could be better, I could fix it. And it was in learning the truth of this revelation that I was able to say like, no, I'm okay. I'm enough. It wasn't about me. And now, now I talk to my parents every day. Like now it's a different, the greatest gift of this, these few years, and even writing this book is that I am so much closer to my parents than I have ever been before, because now there's nothing to hide from each other.

1:00:55There's nothing to, there's nothing we're trying to protect each other from anymore. There's no more performance. There's no more pretending. And so now the intimacy is so real. Yeah. And it's almost like you want that for everyone, but you know how hard it is. It's work. It was, you know, we went into family therapy for a while. Yeah. All four of us, my parents and my husband and I, we would, we like unpacked a lot of this together. And to be on the other side of that, it's extraordinary. You know, I talk in the book about how during the pandemic, my mom was diagnosed with cancer again. And this time around, how I was able to be present for her and with her because there was no longer an arm's length.

1:01:40There was no longer this moat between us. It was the greatest gift to really be able to feel like I now, in this moment when we're faced with mortality, like I really know her and she really knows me. And I know myself now to bring myself to this relationship fully. It just, it was the greatest gift. And it almost feels now that if you are to continue playing roles and performances that you know who you are already. So you couldn't lose yourself in a role or. Yeah, I think there'll be, I'm excited. I've had, I've taken on different characters since getting this information and it feels like I'm able to go deeper.

1:02:25It feels like I'm able to bring more of myself and my truth. I'm more connected to myself and it's allowed me to really have a deeper level of emotional truth. That's what I think about when I watch certain performances in the last five years. I'm able to bring more courage, more personal knowing, more vulnerability, because I'm not operating out of fear anymore. I'm not looking to these characters to fix me or to teach me about myself. I'm actually able to devote myself to them fully. And I've thought a lot about, it's so funny because when you're interviewing, you'll see eventually when you're interviewing for all these schools with your kids, they'll ask you like how the kid was born or like the circumstances of their birth, like to enter into like a preschool.

1:03:18You're like, what are you talking about? And why is that any of your business? They're here to learn their ABCs, right? But there's so much imprinting that happens to us in utero. And I do think it's so powerful for us to go back and uncover the story of who we are and how we came to be. It's why, you know, Street You Grew Up On, it's like that, like, what is your once upon a time? And I thought about it a lot in thinking about my story because I think, I've thought like how afraid my mother must have been. Here this woman was like carrying a baby that she had no idea. She had no idea where the sperm came from.

1:04:02Back then there was no fancy catalog to tell you like what college they went to or like nothing. The two things they said to her doctor were like, we'd love him to be healthy and we'd love him to be black. Because if he was black, then they wouldn't have to tell people. It could remain a secret. But she must have been terrified. And she knew also, like, as she was carrying me, she began carrying a secret that she was going to carry for four decades. And so I was like, my twin was shame. Like I was in utero with shame. We were growing together, like in this pact of secrecy. And she literally never told a soul.

1:04:42My parents, she has four sisters. She just told them this year, this spring. She never told her best friend. She never told anyone. They are literally telling people now because they're like, listen, this book is coming out and I want you to hear this thing from me. So that fear and shame that was growing inside her that was the soup that I was stewing in you know that I was cooking in and I think we get born with with those with that identity and and we get to navigate it yeah you know thank you for sharing that part too because it makes sense with when you said you wish you were not an only child and your parents responded you were long wished for a child you were not easy to conceive.

1:05:25And like that idea of just, it's that beauty of they wanted you so bad. Even like I joke about my dad's, you know, his unwillingness to deal with the truth of how I came to be, right? Like it's so beautiful, not just because it's a testament of how much he loves me. But when my parents sat down across from that doctor, they said, you have two options. Looking at my dad's sperm, you have two options. You can either adopt or you can try this new thing, artificial insemination, right? And it was my dad's ego. It was their desire to keep a secret that made them choose artificial insemination over adoption.

1:06:07So if my parents hadn't had that ego, if my dad hadn't been navigating his pride, I literally wouldn't be here. There'd be some lucky kid who would have been adopted by them and raised by this beautiful couple and all the stuff they were navigating, but it was actually their pride and secrecy that put me on this earth. So I have to be grateful for it. I have to be grateful for their stuff, their, you know, the emotional stuff that they're navigating. Cause it, it was my pathway to being on this planet. Well, I find that I said this to you when we met the other day, when we did, um, the street you grew up on, which, which I really felt was such a gift.

1:06:46And if anyone who's listening or watching, I'm sure you watch already, but if you haven't go and subscribe to Carrie's YouTube show, because I found it to be such a gift to go back there. You've written a memoir now, so you've really gone back. I've never written one, but I find the act of going back there. Like you reminded me of so many things that I completely forgot. Yeah. It was so fun to watch you have these revelations about where you come from. So many things that you just, your memory is such a fascinating thing in and of itself. But I said this to you that day when I saw you and I'm repeating it now because I want my, I said it offline to you, but I want my community to hear it.

1:07:29I found your take on your challenges so refreshing and unique because you'd be valid in just being upset. And there's nothing wrong with that. And if there was someone else who was, it's so valid. But then when you hear someone who's seeing it from multiple perspectives, and there was also this, the most challenging part of this book to read was when you talked about the encounters you were having while you were sleeping. And even in this, and I'll let you explain it, but even when I was reading through that, I was just like, how is Kerry, even explaining this with so much compassion and so much grace and I was like you just have this capacity to hold pain and compassion at the same time and I think that that is so rare and I just want to acknowledge it and honor it that's not a weakness at all I think it's really powerful like to be able to do that and when I was reading that I was just I you were blowing my mind I was just like how is a human I really find that you know you read about people who've gone through some of the most horrific things in the world and they live that way.

1:08:40And, and then, yeah, I was in awe reading that honestly. Like, yeah, I, I think when I'm, as I'm listening to, I think the danger for me has always been in not having the anger part. Right. Right. That that's, it's funny. It's like the compassion comes more easily, weirdly. I don't know if it's the people pleasing or the being an only child or whatever it is, maybe it's being an artist. But the compassion part comes first. The journey for me has been allowing myself to have the anger, allowing myself to create healthy boundaries for myself, to allow for the pain and the grief at times, and then to still make room for the compassion.

1:09:28That's what I felt. Yeah. Yeah. To be able to like hold space for both. And I think a lot of it is selfish. I don't want to be a person who operates from toxicity. You know, when I'm, when I'm carrying, when I'm only operating from resentment, it's poison for me to hold space for loving myself and loving other people in all of our imperfection is for me what feels doable. It actually helps me have more grace for myself when I'm able to have grace for other people. And I talk about that Pema Chodron idea of like the person that causes you the most pain. That's the person that sat with you in heaven before you came to earth and said like, I love you so much.

1:10:14I'm going to be the one that hurts you, that forces you to grow. I love you so much. I'm going to be your enemy that teaches you what love looks like. And I think we are really, really all doing the best we can. And when I'm not able to have compassion, my life is like this hose, right? And the emotions are coming through the hose. If I choke the hose from compassion for somebody else, I choke it for myself too. And I just, I want to let it run free. I want to let the goodness go through so that I'm able to give it to myself and others. Because we're all really just doing the best we can. And that looks like a lot of different ways for a lot of different people.

1:10:55And it doesn't mean that in my compassion and forgiveness that I have to engage with everybody all the time, right? Like having healthy boundaries is also important. But I always want to leave myself open to grace because I need it for me too. I love that idea of how when we're choking our life or someone else with compassion, you're actually blocking it from yourself. And that's what I meant. And it was not a naive compassion that I was reading of. It wasn't a, it didn't come across as a people pleasing or, oh, I'm just protecting. And, you know, it didn't, it didn't feel like that. It just really felt like a realized version of that.

1:11:38And that's even harder. I think some of that too, honestly, comes from the acting because you're taught early on that you, to play a character, you can't judge your character. Like when you're playing a bad guy, you can't think of it as a bad guy. It's what my, some of my favorite stories and my favorite narratives are these like origin stories for the villains, you know, like Cruella and the Joker, like these, these stories. I love that because I feel like it's really true that hurt people hurt people and villains come from somewhere. And so as an actor, you learn that when you're playing a character who does something awful, you better figure out why.

1:12:18You better figure out what it is that caused this person to make those choices because it's not going to be real if you don't do that. You're just going to be like some arch stereotype of a bad guy. If you want to be a human being who's doing something awful, figure out the why. What's at stake? What is that person afraid of? What is that person needing? What is that person longing for? How was that person abused? And so I've had to learn compassion even just for my characters. or maybe I'm drawn to playing complicated characters because I really love to cultivate compassion. I don't know, but it's definitely a part of kind of the culture of how I approach my life and my work.

1:12:59It sounds like you're such a seeker of the truth in spiritually, in your life, in your work. What is it that you're seeking now at this point in your life? Like, what is it that you're trying to learn or be curious about? I think this next little chapter, which is like beginning right now, I'm learning to be in my truth publicly and to see what that feels like and what impact it has on me and my family, because it's so new for me. I've been so private as a person in the public eye. I've really not talked a lot about myself. so I'm really trying to be curious about what this experience feels like and and how it changes me I'm curious about who my donor is I'm so that's it feels like another part of the quest but I'm also aware that that lack of information also feels like information like the fact that the universe hasn't given me this answer of like, this is who he is.

1:14:10It feels like an invitation to move into deeper relationship with the family I come from, my family of origin, right? Like that I have this new kind of truth with my parents, a different kind of truth with my kids, like telling my kids about, you know, my parents and how I came to be, all of that. But also into a deeper relationship with like, like a spirit father, you know, like father time, like the archetype of father, like a heavenly father, like to lean into my connection to a higher power as bringing me those fatherly things, that sense of belonging and safety and being cared for that I'm, I'm interested in this opportunity to cultivate that in my spirit world because I don't have it in the material world.

1:15:03I have it, but I don't have it fully. I have these, you know, I have my dad who's incredible and wonderful and I have this mystery donor. So I have father energy, but there's a deeper security that I can seek, I think, in my spiritual practice. Wow, so beautiful. What was your intention in your career to... Was it intentional to be private? And what are you hoping that the public aspect that you said you were seeking to figure out how it's, what was the intention behind going in that direction? It's funny because it feels accidental. I mean, really, I've always, I decided at a certain point in my career, I had been in a very public relationship.

1:15:48It was very public engagement. And when that ended, I was like, I don't think I want to give this much information to the press ever again. And my husband and I were of the same feeling when we met. We were very private. The whole time we were dating, when we got married, people were like, what? Like, we didn't even know they knew each other. And this was at the height of both of our careers. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated and I was on this hit show and we wound up somehow having this very secret private courting and marriage. It was so beautiful. I remember when I called my parents to tell them I was pregnant, they were like, so you'll tell people when the kid's in college?

1:16:26I was like, probably. Um, so it just, it, it has felt like, um, a way to protect the people that matter most to me, but my parents have always been a part of my public identity because, you know, I don't, I didn't need to protect my relationship with my parents and they're not children. You know, I don't, I keep my kids off social media because I feel like they should make decisions about how they, and there are a lot of ways to do it. There's no right or wrong. But for us, I feel like my kids should be of an age where they know how they want to enter that social media space. I but my parents are old enough to make those decisions.

1:17:01So I kind of started posting more with my parents because I was like, I got to post something, right? Like, so I would post my dog and post my parents. And I was doing these dad jokes with my dad and my dad became a bit of a celebrity on my Instagram. And so then when I got this information, I was suddenly like, oh, I am complicit now in a lie because I'm out here perpetuating this truth. That's not my whole truth. And so suddenly I was like, I didn't want to keep a secret the way my parents had kept a secret. Cause I don't feel like there's anything shameful about this. I don't feel like there's any reason to not talk about it.

1:17:41So part of the telling of the story was like, this is a way for me to be corrective and just not feel like I'm perpetuating a lie that I didn't even know I was lying when I was doing it, but now I want to just be transparent. So we'll see. I don't know. It's it's very new for me to be this open. But I guess I also just, there's a saying that we're as sick as our secrets. And I want to offer healing to my parents and to our relationship by, by not having it be in the dark, by speaking the truth of our journey and of my journey in particular. One of the things that's been really wonderful about, as I've shared the book with people is that people immediately tell me their family secrets.

1:18:27Like immediately. It's so funny. And so I've realized like all families have them and people feel less alone when they read the book because this person who has been so private and I really have kind of maintained a certain level of Hollywood, like this is who I am and I'll let you in only this much. And to let people in more to allow that level of vulnerability helps me feel less alone, but I think also has, is helping readers feel less alone. Yeah. I believe that for sure. And I, I love that that's what's happening as a response to the book, because how beautiful would it be if every friend who picks up this book and shares it with their friend is now able to open up about something that they've been holding on to let go of shame and to let go of secrets.

1:19:20And that's what I want for people to. And also, I think it's important to see, to see where we are as a family, right? To know that we're closer than ever, that this revelation actually wasn't the fracturing of my family, that it actually was the birth of our true intimacy and closeness with each other. And for me, like a real beginning of a sense of like, I don't have to hide. I can now really do and be anything. It's so empowering to hear that. Yeah. It's very liberating. Very liberating is the right word. Actually liberating is the right word. I think that's part of it too, is like, if people find out that this is the real deal of how I came to be in the story of my family, like I wanted to own the narrative.

1:20:06I didn't want anybody else to be able to tell my story. I wanted to be able to tell my own story, to claim it and to have it and to know that it was mine, that it is mine. I'm still living it. This is definitely like act one. There's more to do and be, but it's mine. Yeah. There's this beautiful line that you say you're talking to your therapist about it and then you explain it. And it says, when you teach a person to believe that their internal truth is a lie, you take from them the very thing that is most important to each of us, our ability to know and trust ourselves. And I can only imagine how much you trust yourself now.

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1:22:11Whoa, this thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search at Lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo. Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. It's true. I guess that's why I keep saying I'm so curious about who I'll be on the other side of this chapter like once this is out there, because I do feel like I trust myself more now. I understand myself more. I trust myself. I feel stronger. I feel liberated. I feel like I have more capacity for compassion, more capacity to love myself, more understanding of myself, more capacity to understand and love my parents, and therefore more capacity to understand and love friends and other family members and my kids.

1:23:03If we are as sick as our secrets, then I am getting healthier and healthier every day, you know? So I'm grateful for that because I want to offer that to my kids and to myself and to my parents. We deserve that. You know, that's what this community is about. It's about health and happiness. And that's like, to be able to know that truth can lead to that because sometimes the truth seems so scary. You know, it's not that my parents were being mean they were afraid but that you can walk through that fear toward a deeper healing in truth is is really what I want people to know can I ask a practical question based on what you just said how did you talk about this to your kids because I can imagine that that's scary because it's a lot for them yeah they're still young but you know what it's a lot it's a lot less scary for them because my kids have grown up in a world where half of their friends are born from surrogate moms or donor eggs or donor sperm, or like they have friends with two dads, friends with two moms.

1:24:08Like they're not up against some of the like constricting conservative ideas of who families are and how they come to be that my parents were battling 40 years ago, 40 plus years ago. So it's a different conversation with my kids. It's kind of much more normal. I'm like a, I'm just like ahead of the curve. But it's also very different. Like the conversation we had with our 17-year-old was very different than the conversation with my six-year-old, right? Like super different. And that's part of it is I, and in general, when it comes to this kind of like advanced information, we try to be led by their questions.

1:24:45Like we offer them a little bit of information and then ask them what questions they have. because I don't want to overwhelm them with information, but I always want them to know that they can ask me anything, anything, anything, anything. There's no bad answers, no wrong answers, nothing you can't ask, and that the door is always open. So, you know, like my 17-year-old had more questions. My 6-year-old had zero questions. My 9-year-old had a couple of questions and then was on to the next thing. But for them, it's not a huge deal. and also it's not a huge deal because fundamentally my dad is my dad.

1:25:23Like that's the big thing is that nothing has changed there. There's more information and I'm going to learn more about who I am and therefore they're going to learn more about who they are. But the bottom line is my dad is my dad and that's not changing. So they have that security. I love that. That's beautiful. Keri, we end every On Purpose episode with a final five. Yes, I know. But I want to ask you before we do that, is there anything I haven't asked you about that's on your heart, that's on your mind, that you've really want to share, that you want to dive into, that you want to talk about that we haven't covered today for whatever reason.

1:25:56And so I just want to give you the floor and ask you if there's anything that you've really wanted to share. That doesn't have to be. Was it surprising to you how much time I spent in India? Yes. And we should talk about that. Yeah, yeah, sure. I had no idea. Uh-huh. And I was like, yeah, you've definitely been private. Because I feel like India is such a big part of my work and my heart and my spiritual home that I love when people have spent time in India. It's such a special place. Yeah. It lives so deeply in me. I really want to go back and I want to bring my family. And even my husband is like, I have to go because it's so much a part of you.

1:26:38I do feel like, you know, when I talk about the street I grew up on, it's Pugsley Avenue in the Bronx. But I also feel like Kerala raised me. You know, it was the first place I lived when I left the cocoon of college, right? When I was really into like, college is over. You're like for real an adult now. You're on your own. And I walked into that in India, which is like the most magical of places. So I'm really, really grateful for that place. And I hope that I can spend more time there. How many times have you been back? Only that one time. Oh, that was the only time. I've never been. I've never been.

1:27:17Yeah, yeah. I would love to go back. Do you go back often? I go back every year. You do? Every single year. And where are you based? So I'll go to the ashram that I spent time in, which is in Mumbai and then two hours outside of Mumbai. How long do you stay there? I'll be there for, it varies. Like this time I'm going for, I'm going to another pilgrimage this year in West India. And that's for around a week to 10 days. And then in January, I'm going back to the ashram that I was in for like two weeks. And so it varies. Sometimes I go back for three weeks. Sometimes it's been a month. And do you just like set aside that time a year ahead on your calendar?

1:27:55I try to, yeah. I try to make it a time that's always in and that it's a time to completely disconnect so i won't be on my phone we prep content in advance so that i don't have to think about the podcast or social media i just want to be fully disconnected does your wife go yeah she comes with me yeah she comes with me yeah and it's really fun we love doing it together oh that's so it's a really beautiful way of just both of us getting a reset and if anything she makes us do it even more than i do now where she's like you know she loves it and it's such a we sometimes take our family we'll take our parents really yeah it's really beautiful for them as well we just feel like doing more spiritual things together as a family is just so deeply bonding in a different way and it's so important for our like connection yeah we find that taking her parents and mine is is a big part of it is it hard for you to transition in and out of like when you get there do you miss the secular life and when you're when you're leaving are you like okay i'm done are you like oh i wish i could stay longer i think one of the greatest greatest greatest skills that monk training gave to me was the ability to just be where i am and be okay with it and then move when it's done and so i find that as long as i know why i am where i am and as long as i know it's intentional then i feel very grateful that i can wake up and just feel i'm where i'm meant to be and i think that was all because of the way we were trained where you weren't that nowhere was more home than anywhere else.

1:29:31And that's like a really interesting training because most of the time we're trained to be like, know where your home is, know where your roots are. But this was almost like, well, if your roots were here, then you were always at home. That if you were aligned here, then you were always centered and grounded. You didn't need an external thing. Now that doesn't mean today that I don't like having, I love my home here and I love feeling grounded here. And yes, do I feel more happy when I'm here than in a hotel room? I'm sure, but I don't feel I wake up without purpose in a hotel room if I'm there for a reason or when I was touring this year or whatever it may be.

1:30:07And so I think I look at purpose as my home or at least as a mindset and an approach. So I feel like I can kind of switch back on and off. I've never done a book tour before. Do you have any advice for me? Well, I'm excited watching your book tour. I was trying to join you. My schedule is nuts. It looks amazing. You've got so many amazing guests joining you. I can't wait to hear the conversations that come out of it and the things that other people share. You should ask every person to share a family secret. Because that would be amazing. You can't imagine the healing. But my only advice, which, I mean, you've been on set for months and you've tried, I mean, you don't need my advice.

1:30:45But for whatever it's worth, there were two things. And one's external, one's internal. So the external is my health was my number one priority because it's so easy to fall sick when you're traveling that much. And practically, what did that mean? And practically, that meant having a routine, even though it wasn't my routine here. Having a tour routine. Yes. So I slept at 2 a.m. because I'd get off stage at like 10.30. I'd do a meet and greet. I'd be amped. I'd eat at midnight. And then I'd sleep at 2 a.m. I'd wake up at 9 a.m. So I'd get seven hours of sleep. I'd then go on a walk around the city that I was in with my team.

1:31:23Wherever you were. Yeah, with my tour manager or with my team, whoever's with me, would just go on a long walk, get like 10 ,000 to 20 ,000 steps sometimes. Yes. Like just really get active. Love that, yeah. And be in the place because we weren't really in a place for longer than a night. So I was like, not that I wanted to see the city, but I was like, I want to be outdoors. I don't want to be in a gym or, you know, I don't want to get lost in that. That's great. So that was really great. And then I would eat breakfast at 9 and then lunch at 12, and then I wouldn't eat again. and I would just, I was allowing myself to just be on stage at night.

1:31:53And in the sense of like, I was like, I don't need to achieve more because I was starting off like being on stage. We'd start a meditation at 3 a.m., 3 p.m. And then I wouldn't get off stage until 10 30 and finish till midnight. So it was just like my nine hour workday started at 3 p.m. And so allowing myself in the morning, I don't need to rush to meetings. I don't need to be on a million phone calls. I just need to focus on being present because then i can give people the best experience and and honor that experience and so it was a very like disciplined approach good and and really to take it all in like i'm sure there's going to be tears i'm sure there's going to be laughs i'm sure people are going to want to hug you after this and share their story and it's like i look back and i think of like when and it's what you were saying that as your life becomes more public there's as you know better than anyone there's there's scrutiny there's there's criticism there's whatever i found that the love i got from my community when i was traveling was enough to keep me afloat for all the times and all the well it fills the well of all the other stuff that comes and goes you get to see people's eyes and you get to see someone look into your eyes and say this book change my life whatever and people are going to say that to you like people are going to have their stories of what you've discovered and just getting to hear that from people and see people say it people have been fans of yours for so long and you've probably never heard them say in this intimate way people have loved your characters yeah not you yeah that's so true that's so true and so just taking it all in and allowing yourself to be present with it so the external thing is the discipline and the health and the internal thing is allowing yourself I think sometimes we're so aware of like ego and worrying about whatever it may be and being modest and and I was just like you know what I'm just going to soak up all the love just take in all the love like whenever I allow myself to just really receive the love and I need it too I need to be nurtured by love why am I deflecting it or whatever just just take the love like so funny when you say that because when I was reading your book which is just like a full-on study of love in all of its forms I felt like in so many ways it was like my memoir is like your book in the wild.

1:34:09Like it's so many concepts that you talk about in terms of forgiveness or partnership or vulnerability. Like it's, it's, it's what I'm expressing of how I was grappling with that. Like if only I had had your book when I was like 12 to help me walk through life. But it's really fun to, to see how usable. Your book is so like, it's so spot on in giving people what we need in life. That's so reassuring. Thank you. I mean, I could only dream of having it connect with a real life story as much as that, because yeah, thank you. That means the world to me. Thank you. I really received that. That's so special.

1:34:50I, you know, just, I mean, I think that's kind of like the the perfect match in the world where we need where it's like the we need the human story of what it really looks like because it's messy and it's uncomfortable and then hopefully we can all extrapolate lessons from yeah and get a toolbox it's like like if you get triggered reading this book get jay's book and then you'll have a toolbox to help you grow and heal no and i would say the other way around i feel like people need to see the messiness of what it looks like and and i don't shy away from that but i think when you read about it and you see like oh this is what the uncomfortable conversation look like this is what the revelation looks like this is what the work looks like like i think we need both sides because sometimes we have a romantic view of what growth looks like and what having the revelation conversation with your family looks like and we know that that's not true right right and i and i would love to i love how much time you spend in india for sure i was i was definitely surprised what would you say what would you say then in that regard was like, obviously you talked about the gift of your yoga training.

1:36:00You talked about the gift of, you referred to it many, many times. What was, what was the, what surprised you about India? I think the thing that was most surprising and impactful for me about India was how drenched in God everything is. You know, like I grew up in communities where there's like a liquor store in every corner. But in India, there's an altar on every corner. There's just, you know, when you walk into someone's house, there's an altar, there's a puja room, there's a, there's like, you can't escape God if you wanted. The very way you say hello is like an acknowledgement of the God in each other.

1:36:44So that was really powerful for me in a time when I was really seeking God in my healing. And yeah, I just, I found it impossible to escape a sense of spirituality in India. And it's not an easy place, right? Like people are not, it's not like everywhere you turn, everybody's comfortable and things are easy. So it is this combination of like, life is hard, life is vibrant and chaotic and like the, everything's so pungent, like the sense and the colors and the, it's so filled with life, like real material life. And yet every single inch of that is also connected to God. And that I feel like is something that I try to live in my life, like to live life fully, like out loud and big and in truth and to go after whatever it is that the Dharma is leading you toward, but to not have it just be for self or for material this life to have it be about God and with God and for God.

1:37:50And that it feels like that's so much of what I learned there. Yeah. I mean, I don't think, I don't think there's any greater gift that a place could give you. That's pretty spectacular. Yeah. So special. Yeah. And it's, I'd love to show you my temple room afterwards. I would love that. I would love that. Yeah. It'd be beautiful to show it to you. That would be great. But no, I hope, Gary, this has been a serving and an offering to your offering to the world. I really mean that because I really believe that this book for you is not a, it's not a celebrity memoir. No. It's so, it's so human. It's so, it's so truth seeking.

1:38:36And so I really hope that this has served you and served your offering in the world. And, you know, I'm excited for everyone to read it, to connect with it, to share it with their family, share it with their friends and hopefully uncover, discover and recover from family secrets that may be holding you back in whatever way. And being able to have the grace to hold the supposed paradox with that, you know, compassion and empathy. Amen. Amen. Thank you. It's my hope and intention for you and your book tour. And I wish you nothing but so much impact and can already see everyone smiling and their faces and their lives being impacted and changed based on the work you've done.

1:39:24Thank you so much. It's such a privilege to be here. I'm so grateful. I still have to ask you the final five. Oh, yes. Okay. I know you tried to dodge them, Carrie. I saw that. I should have prepared too. You distracted me. I'm like, such a fan. I should have prepared. You distracted me. But I hope, yeah, I hope we got, if there was anything else that you want to know. No, this was amazing. I wanted to make sure. Good Lord. Be honest with me anytime. Okay. So, all right. Question one, Carrie, what is the best advice you've ever received or heard? The best advice I've ever received or heard is to pray.

1:39:58When I learned to pray and meditate, to me, there are sort of two sides of the same coin, you know, like it's the talking to God and listening to God. Whenever in my life I'm reminded to pray, it's never a bad thing. It's always a path to goodness because it's always an act of surrender and an invitation to help. And the act of prayer for me and of meditation is really for me about picking up a tool of humility. because when I'm not making room for spiritual practice, it's like I think I'm in charge. And so the prayer helps me remember and the meditation helps me remember to be part of something greater, to not be trying to control and run everything, but to connect myself to something bigger.

1:40:52What a great answer. We've never had that before in the show. How did you learn how to pray? And for anyone who struggles with prayer because they think they have to have the perfect words or they don't know where to start. What would you suggest for someone? It was part of my first time I ever got on my knees really to ask something greater than me for help was when I was really struggling with my eating disorder stuff, which I talk about. And that was the first time in my life that I was like, I can't fix this. I don't know. I do not have the tools and I don't know where to go and I don't know what to do.

1:41:27and I'm going to need somebody or something to step in and help me out. That was my first experience with prayer. And then there's a really beautiful book that I think is one of the most important books that I've read in my life called The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. And that book taught me a lot about bringing spiritual practice into my creativity and into my life as creative practice, but prayer through journaling. And I think there's no wrong way to pray. And honestly, my prayer looks like all different kinds of ways. I think like any relationship, my relationship with spirit is always evolving and changing according to where I am.

1:42:04And sometimes it's like sitting on the pillow with the candle and the incense is like, that's it. It's just like sometimes date night is like that perfect, elegant five-star, you're dressed up, he's in a suit, it's a whole, right? Like sometimes the ritual is that. And sometimes it's like, I'm in my car, I'm at the red light. I'm like, all right, God, like I'm going to need you to step in and, you know, take this day on. You know, sometimes it's just singing gospel music. Sometimes it's doing some sun salutations. Sometimes it's like just saying God, God, only God 107 times in a row. Like whatever it is, it can be so many different things.

1:42:39Sometimes it's just swimming. But that just making room for seeking other something greater than me. Beautiful. What a wonderful. Do you pray with the kids? We do at night. At night we do prayer requests and gratitude together as a family. I love that. Yeah. That's so special. Yeah, it is really special. It's really fun to watch them. Where do the kids come up? Yeah, what is it? It's great. You know, you never know. I mean, sometimes it's like, sometimes their gratitude is really profound. I'm grateful that a grandparent is feeling better, or I'm grateful for this family trip and time with cousins.

1:43:14And sometimes it's like, I'm really grateful for pickles. You're like, what? Okay. You know, that's cool. That too is God, right? So like, it's really, it's fun. And also the prayer requests, it's just our kind of family way of remembering to think outside yourself. And sometimes the prayer can be for yourself. I really hope my ankle feels better. I really, but it's also a way to remember to include other people in your seeking, you know? Beautiful. I love that. All right. Well, that was just question one. Yeah, I know. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

1:43:51I think about this book that I talk about in my book that I like stole from the library when I was a kid that was called A New You. That you missed the due date. Yes, I missed the due date again and again and again and again. You know, this idea that it appears in like magazines for young women and there's this messaging out there that to be loved, you must be something other than who you are. You know, that to be loved, you have to be prettier and you have to know what colors are right for you and you have to know how to sit and how to walk and how to stand. And I'm all about having good manners and being appropriate to a situation.

1:44:30But the idea that you have to be somebody other than who you are to be deserving of love is messaging that is damaging. I think it was definitely damaging for me and I think for a lot of people. Yeah, and it gets so ingrained. Yes. And it sounds so obvious, but it's not. And it's so subtle and so hidden. Yeah. I mean, even from a young age, when you hear kids saying like, I need those sneakers or else I'm not going to be cool. Like it's these messages, these, I think consumerism has a lot to do with it. This idea that you must have that lipstick or that mascara or that facelift or those pair of jeans or whatever it is in order to be good enough.

1:45:15And it's just not true. It's just not true. You are lovable. And by the way, love sneakers, love lipstick, love mascara. Like you can have those things, you can play with those things. But the idea that you must do those things to be lovable, to be worthy, that's where the wrong messaging gets implanted. Yeah. To quote TikTok, I don't know if you've seen this new TikTok, which I love. and it's and the the the sound is telling you how to dress to impress a man oh i love that one everyone's like doing the opposite yes it's so great yeah so great yeah i haven't done that one i should do that one yeah i someone i saw someone do it with their daughter the other little girl it was so cute yeah it's really cool so anyway um but that that idea definitely i love that great answer.

1:46:09All right. Question number three is how would you define your current purpose? My current purpose is to hold space for my scary truths and other people's scary truths and to create community in that. That's really powerful. That's amazing. I think that's it for now. It sounds like a good one. For Q4. That's the purpose for Q4. I'll get back to you. Yeah, purpose every quarter. Yeah. I love that. I love that. It's so nice to put it into words though, isn't it? Yes. It's just like even to think about it. It's like. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I love that answer. All right. Question number four. We talked about what you're trying to learn now.

1:46:57Is there anything you're trying to unlearn? Is there any beliefs that you're trying to unlearn or values or ideas? I think I'm working to unlearn the belief. that I am not enough. I think I'm working to unlearn the belief that I am less important and less deserving. Where does that still come from? Where's that hiding? I think there is. When I think about the word sacrifice and that sacrifice does come from sacred, right? And I think for some reason, as an only child, as a young person, I understood that there was something sacred about sacrificing my own need or desire or truth even to make space for someone else's journey.

1:48:01I've placed so much value on other people's sense of joy and goodness and safety that I've been willing to sacrifice my own sense of joy and goodness and safety. And I don't regret it. I think it's not wrong to care about how other people feel and want to do what's right for other people. I'm just learning to let myself be one of those people, right? To include myself. It's not like now I want to do whatever I want to do and to hell with whoever it hurts, but it's like, I need to be as important as the other people I'm considering that I deserve that. That's new for me. Yeah. One of the greatest lessons I think I've tried to learn is that, again the world is trying to do either or so some of us think the answer is just take care of yourself who cares about what anyone else thinks and the opposite is well just sacrifice just serve just surrender and give yourself over to everyone that's the greatest gift and something that i've learned that has really helped me is that actually taking care of myself yes in order to serve others is the complete picture.

1:49:23That taking care of myself is not selfish if my intention and reasoning is so I can go out and do more, give more, be more for others. But I can't do more, give more, and be more for others if I'm giving everyone the leftovers of... That's right. I have to give from my overflow. Correct. Yeah. And similarly, I've also learned that sometimes giving to others is a way that I can be giving to myself. Absolutely. Because I can, like my giving to others can be how I build hope and community and belonging for myself. There can be this dialogue between the two. So just to not forget myself in the equation is so important.

1:50:07Yeah. And that when you give to someone, I also notice it this way that when I give something to someone, often I feel like I'm the one doing the giving, but actually the fact that there's someone there to receive it is such a gift. Because if there was no one for you to give your gift to, then it would feel incomplete. And so the fact that even someone has a challenge, an opportunity, a moment that you get to give something to someone, we have to see that good for ourselves, as opposed to this feeling of like, oh, I did this for all of you. That's right. That's right. So yeah, that's beautiful.

1:50:48I love that. All right, fifth and final question, which we ask to every guest, you should have practiced, Kerry. But if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Take your time. One law. Your answer so far has been fantastic. A++ for everything. Oh God, oh God. So much pressure. One law that everyone in the world had to follow. I think it would be required compassion and empathy training. When I think about all of the like ills of society, all of our kind of social evils come from us not being able to care for each other. You know, when you, even when you think of like really mentally ill folks that it, that there, there is, I don't want to say that because some of it is biological, but there, I feel like there could be so much pain that's avoided.

1:51:43We could stop so much transfer of generational pain and suffering. We could prevent so much abuse if we could just give people empathy and compassion training. It would impact how we legislate, how we interact with one another, how we care for each other in society. I think we need that so badly right now in our families, in our schools, in our businesses, in our government bodies. We just need so much more empathy and compassion. I love that. Yeah, that's beautiful. And there would have to be a special chapter on having it for yourself too. Yes, yes, yeah. For sure. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Everyone, the book is called Thicker Than Water.

1:52:35have it right here kerry washington a memoir make sure you go and order your copy we'll have the link in the comments and the caption so you can go and grab your copy right now kerry is also going on tour so if you don't have your tickets yet make sure you go and grab your tickets to see her live she's got phenomenal guests joining her as well so make sure you go and check that out and of course please please please tag kerry and i with moments of this episode yes that resonated with you on We will repost and respond. Yeah, please let us know what really stood out to you, what you're gonna practice.

1:53:06Maybe you've been inspired to share something with your family member, maybe to ask questions to your family as well, to understand more about your origins and where you came from and who you are. So I hope you're leaving this feeling empowered, liberated and strengthened in your pursuit for truths. And again, I wanna thank you, Kerry, for your generosity, your openness to share your vulnerability and this new friendship that we're building. Yes, I'm so excited. I'm very grateful for it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. What a treat. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr.

1:53:42Julie Smith on unblocking negative emotions and how to embrace difficult feelings. You've just got to be motivated every day. And if you're not, then what are you doing? And actually humans don't work that way. Motivation, you have to treat it like any other emotion. Some days it will be there, some days it won't.

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