La La Anthony ON: Breaking the Cycle of Self- Sabotage & Ways to Turn Rejection into Redirection

23:49They're so focused on if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection listen to a really good cry on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast absolutely absolutely and i love hearing the the practical ways in which it's actually taking part it's really interesting it's so much about like what we get our significance from like what makes us feel worthy and for some of us it's overworking for some of us it's over giving for some of us it's over sharing and it's like what makes you feel worthy today what makes you feel worthy and happy today?

24:30Definitely my son. Like he makes me so happy because you start really seeing the influence you have over your child at a certain age where it's like, wow, everything I've taught him or things I've tried to drill in his head. Now I'm seeing it actually come to forewishing or he's repeating things to me that I'm like, oh, he was listening to me when I said that, or he is following my guidance or advice. You know, he's 16 years old now and he's making a career and a lane for himself in basketball and you know he's doing so well but I just see how humble he is how kind he is how he's all about you know giving back to the community and all the things that are so important to me now I'm just seeing him take on all of that same stuff and that makes me so happy because I feel like you know I did a great job and it's not like I'm done being a parent but I did a great job thus far of being a parent and never allowing whatever was happening in my life or to affect my parenting or affect how I was with, you know, my child.

25:31That's something that makes me happy and something I'm really proud of because that's not easy, you know, to deal with day-to-day life and ups and downs and then come home and be, you know, there for your child and be willing to just listen to their needs and what they have going on. That's not easy. What's been the biggest thing you think he's taught you? Definitely patience. Everyone says like you don't experience love till you have a child and you're like, well, what does that really mean? Like, I know what it's like to love someone, but it definitely is a different kind of love. So just unconditional love, patience.

26:05And, you know, I always say that my son is my best friend. Now, it's interesting because people say that and I don't know if you've read about this, Jay. I'm curious to know your take. People say that your children should not be your best friend, that you should be a parent and your child should not be your best friend. friend i'm on the other side of it my son is my best friend and i'm still able to be a parent and have him as my best friend and best friend i mean i spend more time with my son than anyone else i live with my child so he's the person i live he's my roommate essentially and knows me in every shape and form happy days the sad days everything and there's nothing i don't feel like we can talk about on his side on my side to me those are all the qualities of a best friend do i still parent him and discipline him and of course i do but there's a lot of time read a lot of talk about that and sometimes when i write like hanging with my best friends like oh your son shouldn't be your best friend like you should just be a parent that's the problem these days parents trying to be their kids friends and isn't that i come from a different yeah i i mean i can't i'm obviously i'm not a parent so i can't answer it from that perspective but if i think about it with my parents i would say at this point i'm good friends with my parents i would say i wish we were best friends growing up.

27:17And I felt that I was parented, which made me actually not tell them stuff and keep secrets and do my own thing and not really have that open relationship with them, which I wish I think would have been healthier for me and for them. And now I'm glad that it's evolved to where it has, but I agree. I would have liked to have been friendlier with my parents when I was younger, because I think I could have avoided a lot of the mistakes I made had I had that relationship with them and felt comfortable talking to them about yeah i was always scared to tell them anything because i'm not to get in trouble exactly and so and and i don't think that that was a healthy feeling as a child of oh i'm gonna get into trouble if i did not as a child as a teenager right uh but not the child i was obedient anyway but when i was a teenager it's like i think that's the age if you can be friends with your 16 year old that's pretty dope right right and being friends jay doesn't mean he doesn't get in trouble because if he does something wrong he gets in trouble or you know i have to sit down and talk to him but i think it's the approach and the way because sometimes just yelling or it's not effective at least from what I've seen with other people parenting you know and I don't judge anyone's parenting but yelling screaming like they're not hearing you so sometimes just having an honest conversation on why you shouldn't have done that or why that was wrong for me that gets me further than like what the hell are you thinking why they're like they're blocking you out they're not hearing you anyway I actually went through something like that the other day so I bumped into someone and I was talking to their teenager he was probably like maybe like 14 15 okay and his mom was like behind me like telling him what to ask me and it was almost like she was making it out like he wouldn't ask good questions right like not giving him the opportunity yeah and the thing is he was actually asking really smart questions and I was like really engaged but I could see that she kept distracting him and he kept being like mom just I'm talking I got it I got it right and it was just really interesting and I'd look back and I'd smile and be like he's cool like you know it's all right and it was just really interesting to me like she didn't trust that she'd actually been an amazing parent right and taught him well and put him in a situation where he can handle him yeah and he was doing great and i and i turned i said to her afterwards i was like i just want you to know like you must have raised your son really well because he was so present he asked me so i was so impressed by a 15 year old asking those kind of questions like i wanted her to know that too because i guess mom guilt and reflecting and like kind of feeling like it's never good enough must be a big part of what you carry too.

29:41Yeah, for sure. That's a real thing. You know, mom guilt and just everything you just said is just so real because again, we get in the habit of beating ourselves up for everything. So it's like blaming ourselves for everything. So, you know, my son's like this because of whatever. So it is nice when I always say the biggest compliment I've ever heard is when people tell me your son's so well-mannered. He's so humble. He's so down to earth. He cares about people like that makes me feel better than anything any award any any you know high-rated tv show what is movie anything like someone to tell me that my kid is kind and humble and well-mannered that's like the best thing i could ever hear yeah that's beautiful i love hearing that and i want to talk about your career because last time you came we kind of did a a full like biography of like all the jobs and like how you started we talked about your first job and how you broke through what about you're a driven ambitious person still despite everything you've achieved what is that drive pursuing today like what does that look like right now i'm always trying to figure out what my next thing is um i'm always working extremely hard i think i still am close enough to remember what not having felt like to continue to push myself the way i do i'm not that far removed from remembering what that felt like.

31:03And it lives in me and it's close to me. So I'm like, I don't like that. I don't want to go back there. So that's the motivation and the drive to continue to push forward. And I enjoy it. Like, I like working. I mean, my mom tells me all the time, like, you don't think you should just like take a break? I'm like, mom, I like working. Some people like other things. I like working. Some people, you know, rather be at home and do certain things, which is fine. Everyone has a different motivation. I like working. That brings me happiness. that brings me joy. So I push myself in that, in that department.

31:34But for me, I'm always trying to see what's next right now. You know, I'm, I'm heavy in the acting space, producing space, really big on my prison reform charity, which takes up a lot of my time and, you know, giving back in that way is so important to me. So those are kind of where my immediate focuses are right now, but there's always so many things, you know, happening. With the acting and production, like what part of it right now do you feel most immersed and in love with because you've done both for a while now it's like what's the project that's kind of like bringing you alive right so you know just finding projects that I'm interested in producing is so amazing because you can now bring something that you love to life and you can be in control of that IP or whatever it is and bring it to life so producing just puts you in control for so long as an actor you're waiting for someone else to give you an opportunity.

32:24You're auditioning with 10 other girls that look very similar to you and just hoping that, hey, pick me, pick me. I'm the right person for the role. And nine times out of 10, you don't get picked. I mean, you get those lucky times, but for the most part, you don't always get picked. So by producing, you're not waiting. Now you're creating and you're also putting yourself in a position to create jobs and opportunities for other people. And that's what I'm about, opening the doors for other people to come in and have these experiences and be able to give them, you know, a piece of what I have going on.

32:56So that's what I love about producing and just going out there and finding projects that mean something to me. And it's not always about like, oh, I want to produce this because I want it to be this huge success. Of course, you want things you do to be a huge success, but sometimes you want to do it for you. Like this, I'm passionate about this. I want to tell this story. And whoever gets it, gets it. Maybe this is not the billion dollar hit or whatever. Maybe this is just for a small group of people that are into this, but that matters to me. So that's what gets me excited from the producing standpoint and acting.

33:25I am on a show, so it's great to just have steady work. And I love, you know, the people I work with. I love the show I'm a part of. It's incredible. And it's nice to just always have that kind of in the stash. Yeah, absolutely. You spoke about rejection there. Again, another thing I think people relate to, whether they're auditioning, applying for jobs. Like it's one of those things that we all face in life in different realms. And I think people often think that when you get to a certain level of success, you don't get rejection anymore. That is not true. How does that feel? Like after having had you, I don't know how many auditions you must have done in your life.

33:59Oh my God, more than I could ever count. Right? Like how many like taped auditions, like in person. In person, signing the contract before, thinking that I definitely had the job just to find out that they're not going with me. I mean, I've had everything happen to me. Does it get easier? And how do you react to rejection differently today than you did 16 years ago? So today I realized that most of the time it has nothing to do with you. There's so many other factors. And now being on the producing side, I see the other factors. Could be anything. Could be height. Just could be how you stand next to your co-star.

34:33Could be a million things that are out of your control. It's not a decision based on you weren't good enough or you weren't talented enough. And once I realized that, I got better with dealing with it and also being happy and grateful for the person who did get the job because for whatever reason they were the right person for that job not feeling like oh why they give it to them and not me like actually leading with grace and kindness and realizing that because I started doing that more good things started happening for me but in the beginning it was like oh they don't like me I didn't do a good job oh they think I suck I shouldn't be doing this like I was ready to give up on acting a hundred times I was like clearly this is the one thing that's never going to happen for me like I had to have one thing that just wasn't going to go this is it but I just kept being persistent kept learning kept getting better and then realizing now a lot of the decisions are not based on talent there's just so many other factors when my videos were first seen like seven years ago around a year later a tv production company had reached out and said we want to make a tv show about your work right I was like this is so cool.

35:40I never imagined a million years that that would even be possible. And so we made the deck, we went and like pitched it at all these companies. And it was really interesting because no one took the show. I was really passionate about the idea we'd created. I thought it was really cool and different and no one cared. Like it didn't even go beyond the first meeting. Like from the first meeting, I was like, we're not sure. And it's really interesting to me because I was talking about this with a friend a couple of weeks ago. And I was saying that one thing that happened was it built a number of long-term friendships.

36:08So everyone I met at those pitches, not everyone, but some of the people have become long-term friends that I actually still see now socially, even though we never did anything professionally. So there was a massive win. The other thing was it gave me a great experience of what that process is like. I'd never done it before. And now I actually understand what that looks like. And it was a complete learning curve. But the third one, which is the best one is I often say to people, had I had been given that show, I potentially may never have started this podcast. I potentially may never have written my book.

36:41I potentially may never have gone on tour this year because I wouldn't have had this opportunity to have to build my own work. So true. That's what I want to remind people is like, just trust in the timing as long as you're moving forward. That's it. And I think that's the mistake that we often make is that our disappointment slows us down or like our feeling of failure forces us to just switch off. And instead, when you're moving, shifting, figuring things out, discovering, anything's possible. Yeah, it's so true. And it's funny because on our last podcast, I've said it's been years, that clip is still viral, but we talk about fear and we always say that people stop because they're disappointed in fear right before something great is going to happen.

37:25Like you stop and don't even realize right past that. If you push past that feeling, If you push past that, amazing things are going to happen. And because of our talk, I realized how much that resonated with people. Like, don't let the fear and disappointment stop you because you don't know what's going to happen after that. Let it build you. Let it build your character. Let it build your armor to be strong and to go through these things so that you can keep, like you said, as long as you're moving forward. It's just so important. What fear are you trying to push forward from right now in your life?

37:57I'm such a people pleaser. and I've always wanted to, even as a young kid, I've always wanted to be liked by everyone. I was that person like I wanted everybody to be my friend. And it's funny because people say all the time, oh, La's friends with everybody. Everybody loves La La, which is great. I don't think everybody loves me, but that's great. But also being okay with understanding that you'll never be able to please everyone, especially in this day and age of, we talked about social media, everyone now having a platform to comment, to tell you what you're doing wrong and speak about who you are as a person, people that don't even know you.

38:29There was a time where that would have really rattled me and bothered me because it's like, well, you don't even know me. You never even had a conversation with me. If you knew me, you would love me. You would see I'm this type person. Now it's like I'm secure in myself. So I'm continuing to push through that fear of wanting to be liked or the fear of someone not liking me. I should say that the fear of someone not liking me. I've gotten so much better at that. And just embracing the people that love me and care about me another thing my mom's always told me i quote my mom a lot she's she's a very smart person another thing my mom always told me is celebrate the people that are there you you know you can have a party or a get together and the first thing you'll say is well why didn't so-and-so come yeah damn i invited so-and-so why aren't they here you're not even acknowledging the 10 15 20 people that came to support you on your birthday or whatever the occasion was well damn i invited so-and-so they didn't even come like i always remind myself for that celebrate the people who are there for your moments who want to be there with you and stop worrying about the person who wasn't there same thing with comments everyone jay we love you you're the greatest we listen to everything that one person who's like jay what the hell are you talking about you don't know what you're talking you're like zooming in on that want to find out you want to respond you want to go to their page see how they look and all but you just had a thousand comments about how wonderful you are and that one will just throw people off.

39:53I've just gotten so much better at that. I won't give somebody that much power over me. And again, I want to celebrate the people who are celebrating me. That's what I'm getting better at. Yeah, no, I love that you said that. I literally, it was a habit that I used to have where you'd see all these good reviews or good comments and you would literally just scroll past them just waiting for the negative one. And I've changed. That's so true. Literally, right? Like you're just, you're treating the good ones like, Like, oh yeah, sure. Of course. You don't really mean that. And then when someone says something bad and I've trained myself now, like I genuinely do this and I talk about it on the podcast a lot.

40:28I will sit there and I will read a positive review or I'll read a comment, a positive comment and I'll let it sit here. It's so important. And I'll just let it sit there and I'll let myself accept it because for so long I just tried to like not let myself accept it. And I don't mean let it go to your head. I mean like feel it in your heart. Like someone felt like telling you that your work or your words or whatever it was, your life or that clip of you on the last podcast, that made a difference in their lives. Let yourself receive that. And I wish all of us would allow ourselves to receive love as seriously as we receive hate.

41:03It's so true. When you see hate, you don't think that might not be true. You just accept that it must be true. Whereas when you see love, you think, oh yeah, they didn't really mean that. Oh, it probably isn't that real, right? It's so interesting how we second guess. And it's interesting because we'll believe that hate is true from someone who doesn't even know us. This is coming from someone who never had a conversation with you, who knows nothing about you. So it's like it's the wrong way to think. But you had to train yourself to think differently. I had to train myself to think differently.

41:34For me, a lot of times it's better for me just not to read anything because I still can get hyper focused on. So I don't really get caught up in that. I get caught up in more like when people stop me and say, you know, love you, thanks for this or whatever it is. Those are my genuine, you know, moments. And I do still sometimes, you know, take a peek, but I don't go too deep. That's safer. I just like peeking, but I don't go too deep. I think that's safer. And sometimes when I see criticism, I'll also allow myself if I'm in a good space, because I agree with you. Like what I'm sharing is when you're in a good space.

42:08If you're really struggling with it, just turn it off and get away from it. I'm fully with you. But if I am in a good place, I'll look at criticism and I'll say, let me take the feedback and leave the criticism. Like, how do I do that? Like, how do I listen to this, allow it in, but then leave the part that is kind of the venom in it or the spite or the ferociousness. Like, take that out and take the feedback because there could be something for me to learn and I'm open to that. Right, the constructive part of it or constructive criticism part of it. I do understand that. I don't think all of us are there yet.

42:39Neither am I. I'm just I'm just I'm trying yeah exactly we're trying and and a lot of us you know are still struggling with understanding what being loved feels like or never being loved growing up you know I work with so many people through my charity and just people I know who you realize some of the basic principles of just love they've never experienced and don't understand what that is but they do understand hate being told you're not good enough being ignored not being paid attention to. So they gravitate more to that because that's what they're used to. So it's just about changing the narrative.

43:15And I talk about that with, you know, the group that I work with through, through my charity 360 all the time is like changing the narrative, changing those negative thoughts into positive thoughts. So those, that's really important.

43:39and save every time you park. What got you involved in the prison reform work? And what is the thing that you think would surprise us to learn about it? Because you've actually spent time, you're working with people, it's your charity, it's your project. What do you think would surprise us? I think that people would be surprised how simply changing a person's environment and simply loving someone can be all you need to actually see a complete change in a person. Telling someone you love them, telling someone you're proud of them is sometimes enough to just completely change a person. And realizing that those simple words a lot of people have never even heard before.

44:20It's mind-blowing that I'll sit with the young men in my program. I mostly work with young men ages 18 to 21. And they will tell me they've never heard someone say, I love you, before. They've never heard, definitely never heard someone say, I'm proud of you. What have I ever done for someone to be proud of me? or definitely just never knew what feeling important to somebody was. And when they start feeling that, the change you see in them, when I put them in situations, whether it's jobs or things to thrive, like how amazing they've been doing just because the environment is different. You can love somebody all you want and then put them back in that same toxic, you know, dysfunctional environment.

44:58And then like, well, why are they acting like this? They shouldn't be acting like this. Why are they being a menace to society? I mean, but we wouldn't last one day in a household like that, you know, and just being compassionate. So love and a change in environment are like two of the key things that I've seen where I've seen the most success and the most change for sure. Yeah, that is that is fascinating. And how do you get like, I guess the external perception is everyone would be quite hard in prison and be quite cold. how do you have a conversation about love and compassion and empathy with someone who hasn't had it before like how do you even start that conversation because i think the perception would be they'd just be like i don't need to be loved like there'd be a certain like kind of shield to it is that real is that true or do you find it's quite easy to talk when i first come in it's not easy there's like if it's a new group it's kind of the stone that's what i mean yeah yeah we know la la but what's she what's she gonna talk to us about but it's really just having real authentic conversations when you talk to somebody jay you just have that talent to where they know you're speaking from a genuine place when you talk to me i'm like i gotta listen to what jay's saying like i got what would jay do in this situation you just have that so it's like when you're speaking from your heart and you're leading with love people feel that even the hardest people feel that because at everyone's core what do we want we want to be loved everyone wants to be loved whether they've experienced or not at everyone's core they want to be loved so i'm gonna hit you in that place that just wants to be loved and i'm also going to make you understand that i understand what you've been through i understand why you may have made some of these choices and guess what i'm not judging you but i'm pushing you to do better and that's how i kind of run my group and what we talk about and once they hear that and feel that it just melts away they just want to hug they just want you to tell them you love them they just want to sit down and have some food with you it just like melts away and it's it's emotional it's incredible to see and i wish that more people could be involved in the work and see this instead of just you know writing certain people off because of whatever they've been through because one thing i always say is hey these guys in my program are not going anywhere.

47:17So you got two choices. They can either be an asset to our communities or they can be a problem. Which one do you want? Because they're not going anywhere. So I'd rather mold them and work with them to be assets and great fathers and great community leaders and great workers in our community than be a problem. And sometimes all they really need is to feel supported and to feel loved. That's been my experience. What drew you to that work specifically? I mean, you could have started something about anything in the world. Why? What was it deeply inside of you that was like, this is where I want to put my energy and effort?

47:50I think just growing up, that's always been a part of life, like knowing someone who's in jail, seeing different things, but feeling helpless. Like, well, what can I do? I can just go visit, write a letter here and there. I'm not in a position to do anything. You would see things that you wanted to change, but feel helpless. And now I'm in a position where I can actually make change. You know, I can actually use my voice and my platform to make a change and help people I care about who are still incarcerated or people who have been incarcerated, you know, help them change their experience and provide them with different things that people before us didn't have.

48:28So I'm going to use my platform for that. And also as a mom of a 16 year old, a young black man, I understand, you know, how all of us are one decision or one bad moment away from being any of the kids that I deal with who are incarcerated right now. How many of my kids was just wrong place at the wrong time hanging with the wrong crowd? We can relate to that. I have a son like he could be at the wrong place at the wrong time trying to be cool, running with a certain group of kids. anything can happen so I'm sympathetic to that and I think that's where I draw my inspiration from to want to do the work did you see the lack of support like breaking families like did it how how bad did it get it got bad it got bad I saw it it got bad I had you know one of the closest people to me his mother was incarcerated for many many years and just seeing what it was like for him to grow up without his mom you know being there she was there in every way but she was incarcerated she was an amazing she is an amazing mother but she was incarcerated and just watching what what that felt like and feeling like there's got to be a way to still hold the family bonds even with this going on so just seeing things and like this doesn't make sense or this is supposed to be a rehabilitation but there's no rehabilitation going on where are the programs where the things so that people can come out and not do the same mistakes or be better equipped to make better decisions like what are we doing and now again being in a position I would see all of that yeah but again feel helpless like what am I gonna do I can't do anything all I could do is go visit on the visiting days buy some food out the vending machine and call it a day like what am I gonna do but now I can do something so it's just what I've become so passionate about and when I look at the young men in my program I always say I speak to them and look at them the same way I talk to kyan my son who's 16 years old because they're 18 they're two years away from kyan and dealing with some of the same struggles and issues that i see kyan goes through you know insecure trying to fit in trying to be the cool kid you know all of these things that you know sometimes can lead to bad decisions and trouble if you don't have strong family and strong support and they don't have that yeah could you tell us maybe some of the stories that you've seen of people you know coming back into society and some of the moments where you're like wow this is like it's inspiring and hope for giving.

50:49Yeah. So I did. I had a kid in my program. His name is Rondo. And while he was incarcerated, I bought someone who worked for Reform Alliance, which is founded by Michael Rubin, Meek Mill, Jay-Z. I had Jessica Jackson, who works really close with Kim Kardashian. So they came and they visited and Rondo just stood out to them. And I remember Jessica telling him, when you get out, I'm going to have a job for you. You really have blew me away, won me over. and they waited and waited for him to come out. When he came out, he came out like on a Thursday. I was at the court when they released him. He came out on Thursday.

51:26He was in that office on Monday starting his job, working so hard. And now when you see this kid, Jay, it's unbelievable. He's traveled the whole country. He's spoken on platforms with Kim, who's my best friend, obviously. So I'm like, Kim and Rondo side by side talking about prison reform, him speaking to the Gen Z population about, you know, what needs to be done, his experiences. I'm just mind blown. I found this kid in Rikers Island fighting, you know, dealing with so many different things. And now he's side by side with Kim and Michael Rubin. Not too long ago, I'm like, he's at Michael Rubin's house, like hosting a panel.

52:02And it's just, it's mind blowing. And what was it? Opportunity, change of environment, love that made the change. And we have others, you know, that are following in the same path. But it's amazing to see. It's like, it makes you just feel like it's all worth it. Like you just like, everything I'm doing is worth it. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I think it's hard sometimes to, you know, connect the dots. I was talking to, I think you probably know Scott as well, Scott Budnick. I was with Scott like a couple of weeks ago and he's so passionate about this place.

52:34And for those people who don't know, Scott made the three Hangover movies, but then also made Just Mercy. You know, that movie for him was all about prison reform and changing the narrative and trying to give people an opportunity and rethinking, you know, how we feel about people and how we treat people who've made certain decisions. And it's so phenomenal to hear that so many people, also all of you, are collaborating. Yeah, for sure. In order to do this. For sure. You can't do this type of work alone, Jay. You need a support system. And my charity, again, is 360. And I'm so happy to have Reform Alliance as a partner who really guide me and help me because I'm new to the space.

53:14I'm not new to the experience, but I'm new to the space. And just learning and navigating and them just really holding my hand through the whole thing has been great. You can't do it, you know, alone, but it's a challenging space, but such a rewarding space at the same time. Yeah. Lala, what's, you know, you've had such a career in the public eye, life in the public eye. what's something about you that you think people don't know that you'd you'd love them to know people around me always say like people don't know how funny you are like i'm joking around all the time like i'm always up for having a good time like i want to be the life of the party and i love seeing everyone around have a good time those are some things like i'm just learning to just enjoy you know life and and the new chapter in my life you know it still is new coming from you know being married not anymore and just like what does that look like and that's why i said you know you can't put a time frame on things people would think oh by now she would already be in another relationship or be married again or whatever and none of that has happened yet and i'm okay with that i'm just going with the flow in whichever way life takes me i'm just i'm just going that way and just understanding that everything happens when it's supposed to not rushing things just enjoying the moment yeah i definitely found your humor came through when i first met you.

54:29I was just cracking out on everything you were saying. And I was just like, you know, it's, you, you definitely feel that when you meet someone and it's, it's interesting because yeah, I feel like people say the same when I'm, when I'm on stage or when I'm in person, I'm hopefully a lot funnier than I am on my social media page. When I'm with my wife, I'm definitely funnier because I'm borrowing from her because she's hilarious. But it's so hard transitioning and it's so hard transitioning in the public eye because it's almost like you You have all these opinions. You have other people's narratives.

54:59You're still trying to figure things out yourself. And it's almost like I almost liken it. I always say to people, imagine you're going through something and everyone in your family, everyone in your friend circle is talking about it. And everyone has their version. That's what you're experiencing at a news level or a world level. And that's very difficult when you are either in that space yourself or you have friends in that space and you see how challenging it is. and you're saying you're trying to enjoy the moment and you haven't, obviously, like you're saying, you haven't just moved on and it's not as easy.

55:30Is the hardest thing about it that you thought life was going a certain way and then it didn't? Is that the hardest thing about it? That's the hardest thing. You don't get married to get divorced. Nobody gets married and says, I'm getting divorced. You get married because you feel like you found your person and this is what the rest of your life is going to be like. And you start building a life with this person and then something changes that you weren't prepared for, that you don't have the tools and skills to no one's gonna prepare you for divorce you're married right now jay nobody's telling you jay come sit down let me tell you what's gonna happen when you get divorced nobody nobody's doing that we're wishing you and your wife the best to ride off into the sunset forever together so you're not equipped with the knowledge and the tools on what to do emotionally or anything when that happens and then you just find yourself in a position to just figure it out so that's that's really difficult and life for me looks different right now and I still have those moments where I can be at home and I'm like you could never tell me that this would be my life right now and I'm not saying that's a bad thing I love my life right now but you know owning a home by myself my son and I you know living together then on certain days him going to stay with his dad and then I'm home alone and it's still a family but separate in a sense you know and just okay well what time you coming home today like you could have never told me that that was going to be my life but what can I do I have to adjust like I have to adjust and be strong and figure out what the new norm is this is my new normal and I just had to adjust to it was it easy of course not and are there still days where it can hit you and and be really hard yeah and I want to be honest and tell people that because it's been a while for me and you would really think that by now like that's something I never think about anymore of course I do had a family like a beautiful family and now I still have a family but it just looks a little bit different and I'm okay with that but it's still your moments where you're like wow this is this is different yeah absolutely and and I guess it sounds like both of you have been able to be there for Kyan so that he's having yeah the co-parenting is strong with us and that's something I'm very grateful for because whatever happened between me and his dad I don't feel like Kyan should have to suffer because of that so we try to do a good job at co-parenting and still you know leading with love and and kids are going to be a reflection of what they see like i could tell them all day oh you know no me and your dad but if he sees us arguing all the time or never around each other then it doesn't matter what i say but we make it a point for him to see us getting along and both being there for his moments his basketball games his school plays you know parent teacher conference whatever it is so he always feels supported because one day kyan's gonna have a family and i want him to understand you know what having a family means and even though mom and dad might not have been able to figure it out in the traditional way yeah we still loved you and my hope is that he can do better than we did and you know what it is what's really interesting about that is i don't know anyone whose life is actually traditional in the traditional way like me even even people who've stayed together forever like i don't know it's so interesting right like how we have these stereotypes and these views of like what a healthy successful relationship looks like between a family people friendships like my relationship with my parents is very different to what i would consider the traditional perfect relationship with your parents because i just that wasn't our way yeah and and it's so interesting because you kind of almost always make yourself feel guilty or shamed for not having the traditional thing but then when i actually think about like who has the traditional setup i don't know and i think the more you go through life you start understanding and realizing that and now my saying is like whatever works for them Like, who am I to judge and say it shouldn't be this way?

59:16It should only be this way. I mean, nothing is traditional anymore. People just have to figure out what works for them and what that looks like for them. Like, if it works for you, that's what matters. Because at the end of the day, I always say, when you're going through something, when you're down, when you're depressed, more times than not, you're dealing with that alone. You have your friend support. But I'm saying in those critical moments, when you're in that bathroom looking in that mirror and you're crying and going through stuff, you're going through that alone. So make decisions that make you happy and not worrying about what everybody else is going to say or how people are going to view me.

59:48Because in those quiet moments, you are by yourself and you have to face yourself, whatever that looks like. And I had to learn that because, again, the people pleaser in me. What is this one going to say? What is this one going to be mad if I do this? I got to make this one happy. And it was always about everybody else and putting myself last. and then when I when my whole you know marriage came crumbling down and I was in that bed I was there by myself and I had to deal with that by myself yeah that's the truth what is being loved by yourself and someone else look like now for you what have you learned about how you want to be loved by yourself and potentially by anyone else um words hold so much power getting better at like speaking nicely to myself being kind not that I used to just like beat myself up and say negative things but like wow look how much you've accomplished look how many people you've helped look at the son you've raised like you've done really really good in the public eye you've never like just crumbled and fell apart you were able to keep it together you went through something that would break most people like what I went through would have broken a lot of people and I handled it with as much grace as I possibly could and afterwards I didn't make me change how I feel about like love I don't know if marriage is still in the cards for me it's kind of changed my perception on that one of my friends was like you cannot go on podcasts and say you're never getting married again I'm like so I'm open I'm just saying that I don't know if that's in the cards but I'm being open to whatever happens and being loved by somebody else at this point to me is just really aligning with somebody that makes me feel happy, makes me feel like I can be myself and somebody who I just enjoy being around.

1:01:35It's not like I'm looking for someone to take care of me. It's not like I'm looking for a father for my son. And we have all of those things. Now it's about how are you connecting with me? How are you making me feel? And I get excited when I think that or believe that that person is out there somewhere and who is it going to be like? And when are they gotta come find me like you know i get excited about those things because who doesn't want that in their life i don't think you're meant to just go through life alone like who doesn't want that there's so much of what you've said today which is so relatable to so many so like connected to so many people's hearts and you bring it out of me jay you just make it so comfortable and i just i mean i follow you i follow your words your podcast i'm on your page all the time i'm always looking for quotes from your page but there's sometimes i gotta be careful because i'm like if I post this quote they're gonna think I'm talking about so and so like I'm always like because some of your quotes are just so spot on I'm like that's exactly what I was thinking so I'm always going to your page finding quotes I have a million screenshots of your quotes in my phone but just thank you for being there for all of us in the way that you are and just making everybody feel so comfortable and loved and you know I've read your book I follow what you say in some of my hard moments I refer to your podcast and different things and it just really helps me so I just appreciate that you just gotta pick up the phone yes I gotta pick up I'm always I don't want to bother you yeah just call me okay so then I'll pick up the phone no I just really really really believe that if we just look at the essence of the humanness in everyone that we meet and you just realize like everyone is so beautiful and wonderful and powerful and phenomenal but we just we've missed it because we've all been covered over right by everything else and even that person may not be able to see that in themselves and I just I try and see people through the eyes that I hope one day they'll be able to see themselves through and that's my only goal really in in how I try and live I don't want to live to to judge or criticize or compare or be better than anyone or holier than anyone like it's if we could always look at each other as equals like true equals because we are at our essence it's so powerful exactly the same every single person every single every single animal being on this planet is exactly the same in the essence in the pure sense of it all and i think all we can do for each other is provide a safe space the world's hard enough anyway it's so hard it's all hard it's all hard enough anyway Anyway, so thank you for saying those kind words.

1:04:08But thank you for always opening your heart with me, opening your mind. And I know this is going to help so many people who listen to it. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to share that? We always get right to it. I sit in this chair and it's like, we get right to it. I think we hit on so many points. And I just hope anyone listening, watching can take something away from this. I'm not perfect. I've been through a lot. Still figuring life out. I don't think you ever just have it figured out. and just be kind to yourself, be patient with yourself, love yourself. It is so important.

1:04:41And definitely one thing we talked about is, you know, don't blame yourself. You know, we're all doing the best we can with what we have. No, you can hear that in your voice. It's not even today. It's not just about what you've said. It's like you can hear that genuineness and that sincerity in your voice. It's like, I think it's really going to land with people. So I hope everyone listens to this not once, but twice. Yeah, same twice. And everyone who's listening and watching make sure that you cut the i know you guys do a great job cutting stuff for tiktok yourself instagram like cut the stuff that really resonated with you that connected with you and share it with someone because i'm sure you've got friends who are going through breakups maybe they're going through a divorce maybe they're raising a kid on their own maybe you know everything that lala is going through there are so many things that i know so many of you are connected to in your ecosystems and your lives and i hope that you'll clip the bits that stand out to you that connect to you.

1:05:31And I hope you'll share it with others because sometimes we just need to feel seen, heard and understood. And I think today, a lot of people will feel seen, heard and understood. Thank you, Jay. Thank you, love. Love you, appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Pick up the phone. I will, I promise. You have to. I will. I mean it. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child. You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, that is so unfair because that's not who I am.

1:06:01And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am. Why does anything else matter? This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. And Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel, and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events.

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1:07:18You may know me as a gold medalist. You may know me as an NCAA national champion. You may even know me as a people's princess. Every week on my new podcast, Fud Around and Find Out, I'll be talking to some special guests about pop culture, basketball, and what it's like to be a professional athlete on and off the court. Listen to Fud Around and Find Out, a production of iHeart Women's Sports in partnership with Unanimous Media on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.