MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY: The KEYS to a Meaningful Life (Love, Faith, Family & Turning Failure into Growth)

29:07If one in a row over and over instead of, oh, I'm going to put a string together. No, do one in a row over and over and look up and maybe you can go, look at that. Yeah. Ten in a row. We got somewhere. Yeah. But that's easier said than done, you know? No. What do you think? No, I love that. I think you hit the nail on the head. It's how we teach children to take one step at a time. It's how we build new habits as people. We do one day at a time. I think as soon as we start thinking, it's why New Year's resolutions fail. It's why these big claims of I'm going to do this for the rest of my life, or I'm going to do this for the rest of the year, why people struggle with vows and commitments or whatever it may be.

29:49It's because you're making this long-term decision based on small amounts of information. And you're spot on that. I think it's not compassionate to challenge someone beyond that one step, that footing, that they're just, I love that answer. I think it's the most empathetic, compassionate, and loving thing you can do is to teach someone how to take the next step without any pressure to climb the whole mountain. So what then would you say is the balance between keeping the big picture in mind, but taking one step at a time.

30:28The urge, the will, the incentive, the being to go, no, I'm chasing my transcendent self. I'm trying to be more godlike, whatever that is, which is a big, big picture. I'm trying living as if I want to get to heaven or whatever. I want to act in a way that I have good comfort. Those are big ideas. So how do you, what's the, what's in your mind, what's the dance between that and yes, but put your head down one step at a time.

31:18As you're saying that, I'm reminded of a beautiful line in scripture. This comes from the Bhagavad Gita, the Eastern text. And the text is not a rule book or a principle book. It's based on a battlefield. And the character is the greatest archer of his time. and he's having a crisis of faith. And the bow's slipping from his hands. He's going to have to fight his family who are the bad side and he's the good side and he doesn't feel capable of taking the lives of people that he grew up with. And that's the scene. And he's talking to God who happens to be his charioteer. So God's actually riding his chariot and he pauses in between the two armies and they have this dialogue which is 700 verses, 45 minutes long in time.

32:09And God's number one instruction is think of me and fight. It's like, think of me and fight. It's like, I want you to think of me and then do your duty and take that step. And so, you know, talking about what you're saying, it's like this paradox where we think we have to choose, but actually the instruction in and of itself, he repeats that twice. God repeats that twice in the text. It's like, think of me and fight. So think of me and do a do. Think of me and take the step. Because if you think of me and take the step, you'll have faith and trust, but you'll also feel your action and the confidence.

32:44But if you only think of me and you just sit there, that's not going to work. Yeah. Let's explore those two extremes where we don't get it. Yeah. One are the fatalist. Yes. I don't know. Inshallah. Yeah. Wait a minute. We got to have our hands on a wheel. Yes. You know what I mean? I mean, you know, we have our freedom of choice. So where is it that we go, rely on fate too much? Yes. And where is it we're like, no, I am fully responsible for everything. The next step is all that matters. You don't see any horizon. Exactly. You don't see any. You're not pursuing anything. You're just, you know, not Air Force, Navy, Marines.

33:29You're Army. You're dealing with the ground. only. Talking about space, you know what I mean? That's the two extremes when it feels like they can be out of balance. But that paradox in the middle is what so many of us are seeking and pursue and try to live it. But what are practical ways to keep that in the middle where we're feeling both at the same time, where we're thinking of God and fighting? What's that old Southern adage, the old man and the boy walking, here comes the tornado and the boy drops on his knees to pray and he has to get your butt up. What scared prayer ain't worth the damn right now.

34:06We got to go get shelter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and then other times, and I've had my Nietzschean agnostic years where I was like, it's all me. Yes, yes. It is all about my hands on the damn wheel. Now, I don't regret those. And as a believer, I didn't feel spiritually God was mad at me for that. I thought he had a wry smile on his face when he was like, way to get your hands on the wheel. I could use some more of that from some more of y 'all. But at the same time, you thought you had it. I thought it was all up to you. But I appreciate the effort. But it was, I remember the feeling of appreciation and I needed it at the time because I was giving myself too much amnesty in places.

34:54And I was getting, my chassis was a little loose on the edges. And I was like, well, you got to look in the mirror, McConaughey. Grab the damn wheel, man. You couldn't like just let it all slide on faith. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes, yes, absolutely. I think there's a reason why so many spiritual and faith traditions, you went to church on Sunday or a temple or whatever. It's like that was the day where you were fully dedicated in faith, aligned in trust, and then you went and worked six days. Yeah. And you carried that with you and you tried to practice it as a reminder, but then you went back and then you got reminded and then you did six days of yourself.

35:25By about Thursday evening, you were like, I need Sunday to come. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like that's where that third space has been lost. It's like, you know, 100 years ago, third space theory, we had three spaces. We had church, work, and home. And then fast forward as time went on, you had work and home. And then fast forward after the pandemic, and you just have home. Right. And they all had a purpose. It was like church or temple or community or whatever it was. It was a place that gave you the space to look back on your life and take a step back because at home you have to be dad or mom.

35:59It was a physical place. It was a physical place that gave you space to ask different questions. Because at work, you're just asking, how do I make more money? And at home, you're asking, how do I be a better mom or dad? But then what about how do I do all the other? Where's the space for that question? So in this age where most people are less than going to church less, they're going to the temples less. Is it possible, do you think, or how can we improve if you do think it's possible, without the ritual of that third space? Because I understand the concept, man. When I feel most spiritually strong, I'm all days of prayer.

36:43Yes, yes, for sure. My every interaction is a give and take and a rhythm of, oh, I didn't have to close my eyes. Now, but that Sunday ritual where I did need to get my heart above my head in humility and bow in humility, I saw I got objective and saw myself from an eye in the sky. I was like, oh, are you doing, you're not quite doing, or you could do this thing that you think you're doing. a little more truly. You could have been more benevolent in that. Oh, that was, but I needed that. But then a lot of times, I mean, without the ritual and so many people now go, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.

37:28I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. I think there's people that are a lot more religious than they think they are. I think there, a lot of that is that term that's coming from what mankind has done with religion, which in the Bible, Jesus fought against. So I was like, ah, that's not what I'm talking about, guys. This is not, it's not, it's not, religion isn't a capitalist thing. It's not a material. It's what we've done with it that I think a lot of people are fighting against. Absolutely. But religion. In fairness, yeah. The word means re, legare, the Latin root. Legare means to bind together and re means again.

38:06So a lot of people that I hear saying I'm spiritual and I'm for unity. I'm like going, that's religion. to bind together again. That's to unify. Yeah. But going back to our earlier thought, language is limiting. And once a word is scarred and wounded with battle wounds of the past, it becomes less prominent today. I'm a prescriptionist. I keep going back like, let's not, I'm not ready to give up on original definitions so quickly. And I can get, sometimes I'm pushing that square rock up the hill. Other times, you just go adapt. Don't want to be caught as a dinosaur, right? So how do we, again, where do we hold on to time-intested truths, spiritual ones in this sense, and still say, no, let's adapt and evolve.

38:56People move around in society differently now. Maybe we don't need the third space on a Sunday, but we take the time every day to meditate, to pray, and church is where you are. It's in nature. That's where I find my church. Are those, do you think these are good supplements? What do you think? I want to know what you think. I'd like to say they are, but I'm not sure we're that evolved. I still think we need and want the responsibility, the hand, the hold. Oh, this is the day. This is the place. This is where I go. This is what we do. I try to short sheet that bet all the time myself. I'm going to know better.

39:41And I've never followed through on go forward with the ritual. Go. I've never followed through on it and come away going, ah, six or half. I'm always like, yeah, yeah, got to keep doing that, man. And I'm trying to do that more as a father and, you know, head of the family. And I'm not doing the best job of it. And I'm understanding this thing about, yeah, it's where we are. It's how we think. It's how we're gracious. It's just how we're thankful. Before meals, we talk about our day or we talk about philosophy or stoicism. I'm like, yeah, these are some of the same things. But are they? I'm kind of making an excuse, I think, because philosophy is different than religion.

40:21Although my favorite parts of what I've studied is religion is the stuff I can go, oh, I can take that into the week. Oh, I can use that practically. Yeah. And I still have trouble with burning bushes and parted seas and stuff like that. But that may be a failure of my own true faith. That seems to be maybe that's my own pride or my own pragmatism or my own belief in philosophy and the way we live life, which I'm eternally interested in. But I don't believe I'm going far enough. Yeah. I think I'm short sheeting myself. I think there's a gap there. And I do. I think God's going. I appreciate you trying.

41:04You had too much pride. You're not going far enough yet. You haven't fully surrendered to the faith, to belief in faith. That's my, and I think you do need that. My hunch is I don't care how tired you are Sunday morning. That's where you should and ought to, and you know it. Yeah. Go for that reason. So that's my hunch. Yeah. We're aligned. Yeah. I think that what we have available today are poor conduits of a far greater depth that you get from the physical community, the connection, the communion of a direct message that feels really clear and is from source. Like there's a power in that that I've personally experienced too.

41:52And I've dabbled in both. By the way, I'm the same. I'm the same as you. I live in a place where I don't have that community as I've had in other places that I've lived. I constantly make excuses and find other ways to justify my practice because I can't fully be at the depth that I'd like to be. And so I'm doing it too to survive and to stay connected. But there's a difference between surviving and thriving. And I know that when I'm thriving in my practice and my faith, it's when I'm doing it the way it was done. Now, this doesn't, going back and just to add the caveat, I think we all know it is that I'm not saying that the way it was done in all ways was done well.

42:29I'm saying that the form of connecting communion, reflecting connection, that you can't substitute that with anything else. But we're living in a world today where we need new tools and we need things that are more accessible and people need them and are available to them. And I see them as a beginning of the journey and a bridge, not the destination. So I think if we're building a longer bridge, then that's healthy because if someone never starts the journey on the bridge, will they ever make it to the place? What are we building the bridge with? What's the brick and mortar? I guess what I mean, if people are trying to do their daily meditation, maybe they're meditating through an app.

43:08Maybe they are trying to work out with an online workout, right? Yeah. If they were in the gym at a class, maybe that would be a more fun atmosphere for them, right? Maybe people are reading a book about poems and prayers inspired by, but not directly from the source, but that's their beginning bridge of their journey to that direction in their own pace, at their own time, whenever, if and when they want to go. And I feel like that's what you do and what I try and do and what so many do is we're trying to build bridges, hopefully, that are not the home. I think the problem is when the bridge becomes the home.

43:47Amen. You don't want to live on the bridge. Yeah. Right? I can't remember who said it. There's a famous quote that says, the world is like a bridge. Don't build your house on it. Cross over it. And that, I don't know who said it, but it's that idea of, I think all of these platforms and apps and tools, they're all bridges. Yeah. But don't live there. Yeah. Don't live there. Don't feel that that's home. That's it. I mean, let me ask you this though, because like in the Bible, it talks about we're all, you know, we're strangers here. We never, we don't find a home here. In some version, and I may be theologically messing this up, but what I get from it is, you know, but you try your pursuit to try and make heaven on earth, which you will not because you will never find it here till you get there.

44:42That's, that's as good as you can do, but you will always be a stranger. You always be an immigrant. You will always be looking for a home here on earth. Now, how does that necessarily mean that? That doesn't mean we're living on a bridge. Yeah. Or does it? I believe so. I feel like it's like an airport terminal. It just feels like home because we feel like it's a long time, but because it's not eternal, it can't possibly be the destination. Right. From a religious, spiritual sense. But you're trying to make home or the pursuit of home. Yeah. what you see home, trying to bring it here. Yes. Trying to emulate it as much as possible.

45:18Live in the light of that. It's like, I'm going to France next year, so I'm going to practice French now. Right. Like that, I think, is the big picture and the daily step at a time. It's like, I'm trying to aspire to live. I'm going to move country next year, but I'm going to practice the rules, the rituals, the language of that country this year, because then I'll be prepared. so I don't not have a great life now I'm not postponing joy right right I'm not postponing happiness or love I'm practicing that culture that I believe is better for me yes now if that makes any sense yes yes it does yeah what's what's been I feel like you're such a I feel like your mind is like you're constantly observing patterns and observing even like language as we've been talking what's something that you've observed about humans that fascinates you that surprises you maybe um one our ability to adapt when there's not another option wow that's a good one we're elastic man we are elastic more elastic than i like to practically think but boy when we're put to it, I'm amazed how quickly we can change, adapt, evolve, come to understand the other side.

46:42When we're put to it, you give us the option. We take the out, man. And we argue and I ain't budging. Nuh-uh. You know what I mean? and then on the flip side of that somewhat is

47:01how we seem to find in this pursuit of the ideal we seem to almost say well that is our home that is who we are and then go okay so therefore and And then our practice is not as evolved as we think it is, but we keep saying, and I love the, we can tap into the 11th percent of our mind, which we don't tap into. We can be greater. We can transcend. But practically every day, I think there's some great wisdom in going, we're not as evolved as we think we are. Let's quit acting like we are. I love the pursuit. It's like rehabilitation and justice. I'm for rehabilitation, man. I mean, I love the New Testament.

47:51You know what I mean? At the same time, we are repeat offending son of a gun over and over and over. And if I've done you wrong and you've allowed me to come to you and ask for forgiveness, the first order on the docket should be me. If you choose to forgive me, the first order on the docket should be me from now on doing anything I can to not have to come apologize to you again. It's not just that you forgave and gave me the chance to be forgiven. I got some sweat equity on my side to quit doing the actions that caused me to have you forgive me, to have me apologize again. And we don't forget, we seem to not forget that side.

48:35I love kumbaya. This is the ideal place we can go, but I feel like we relax and kind of take for granted thinking we're that evolved. No, we're not. That's the constant pursuit. We ain't there. So let's deal with the hard math right here. And one thing we can depend on people being is people. Nothing we do is unbelievable. We do stupid shit all the time. We break our own noses because we tripped ourselves running downhill. We steal. We're jealous. We covet. We talk blue and vote red. We talk New Testament and act old. We're entrenched in some ideas. Now, go back to the first half of what surprised me about people.

49:23When I was talking about the flexibility of adaptation, I remember it was probably 12 years ago. I was in Alabama. I was doing research for a film down there, Free State of Jones. and in Mobile, Alabama, on the docket that night, the next morning, the vote had gone through about whether Alabama was going to allow gay marriage. And I'm sitting, I'm in Alabama. And I was like, I don't think that's going to pass. Deep South Alabama. I mean, it sounds like that's a very progressive idea to them. I wasn't judging it. I'm just saying as an anthropologist and sociologist, I'm like, the next morning it passed 53 % to 47%.

50:03I was like, wow. I talked to my friends. A lot of them on the left were abhorred. I can't believe that. It was big. It's only 53%. And I was like, only 53? I thought it was going to be 80-20. The other way, that was a massive amount. Me talking about meeting people where they are. It was a massive flexibility that surprised me. And that was just 12 years ago. So we have to understand where people have come from. I write about it in the book about I wish more crimes were from ignorance. And what I mean by that is if I know the right thing to do and I know the wrong thing to do and I still do the wrong crime, shame on me.

50:45I knew better. But there's certain crimes we commit daily that someone just goes, I didn't know. Yeah. Okay. Now let's talk about some real rehab because you didn't make the wrong choice. You just didn't know. Yeah. Now talk about some amnesty. Yeah. I've got to meet you in a different place. We have to deal with solving the problem differently than I do with the guy that knew better and did it anyway. Yeah. Do we expect too much from people?

51:17practically speaking yes yes i mean we underwhelm and underserve and undershow a lot but we all have different expectations of ourselves and and of others i mean so again part of that hey just expect it that old expect the worst worst the best i don't like that i like actually expect the absolute best and when it comes in under that you know shoot for the a make a c is better than shoot for c make an f when you how quickly when you deal with reality go okay well that's a hell of a lot better outcome and i got more out of you and you got more out of me than we would have if we had come in going like let's just make a c you know what i mean we maybe you know what i mean we we went for the perfection and we came in under it, but it was still pretty doggone good.

52:13Well done. That's where I call it an overshow theory. How do you deal with when someone disappoints you based on your expectation?

52:29I'm quicker to say, yep, that was reality. that's what they're able to do, whether it's forgiveness or amnesty, whatever you call it, with others than I am for myself. It's planned. I expect perfection for myself a lot. And I don't reach it. And I know I can, or I believe I can. That's a better word. I believe I can. And I don't want to quit believing I can. That's sort of where I find myself in approaching life. Keep going for perfection. Keep finding that reality comes in under that. And you will have climbed more stairs if we're going to have a vertical by the end. You will have had more quality.

53:17Your roots will have been deeper and wider inside and out vertically and to the south than if you didn't chase that perfection. The challenge for me is when reality comes in and it's served and the bells rung and There's no more time to take the test when you see that you didn't make 100 and you made an 88. How quickly can you go instead of going, oh, dude. Or how quickly can you go, all right, 88. Not bad. Yeah. So, again, that pursuit of an ideal plus the practical, what's the next solid step? and I work to become, I work to try and remain as much as I can to feel satisfaction in that reality.

54:09But that's the hard part is how quickly can you go from, like I've never, I say this all the time and I don't like it to be misconstrued. I've never made a film that lived up to my expectations. I've never given a performance that lived up to my expectations. I've done films and I think, it's a lot better than I could have done and I'm not saying oh I should have direct I'm saying that was a it's awesome there's a really great piece of art not just a transcendent it didn't change the the world or tap into a piece of humanity that enlightened myself and everyone else on a unanimous level that's what I'm going for but I had never done it so why and again i've worked and people have made films i think are are outstanding and better than they would have been if i would have been the director for sure but that's part of i think maybe why when i do do good work or make good creations or good art i think that was part of it that I was going for the infinite pure spot in space that was immaculate.

55:26Believing I could achieve perfection, but knowing I couldn't, but I still like to believe. I mean, my, my, my favorite word in the world is unanimous. What? I mean, unanimous. We don't have as many black and whites today, man. Maybe something unanimous that we can all agree on. Maybe it's a value. Maybe it's a way of making a living. Maybe it's a piece of art. Just unanimously go, no, that's great. It's a one of one. But you seek unanimous. Sammy Davis Jr., I don't know what success is. I don't know what failure is. That's trying to please everybody. You know what I mean? You seek, you ain't going to get it.

56:09There's no way. But come on. To keep believing, I don't know, I feel like it keeps me in the chase, keeps me in the race. It keeps me going, ooh, ooh, almost. Okay, okay, you know. Yeah, I like that. You have to live like that. Like there's a joy to live like that. And it's a joy, again, you know, it's been the theme of our discussion today. It's almost like being able to accept both. Like you said, you believe you can knowing you won't. Right. And it's that what makes it beautiful because if you only believe you can, then you'll be really disappointed when it doesn't happen. Right. And if you only know you'll never get there, then, well, you'll never do anything.

56:49You won't do anything, yeah. So it goes back to that same - That's it. Yeah, that same piece. So on your ranking score, where is Interstellar of your performance? Where do you go in Interstellar? Where is it? Yeah, where are you? Like your performance, like that's not, to us, it's perfect. To you, it's not. So what is the ATA? No, I think it's very good. And I think the movie's really good. I think the character's really good. I think my performance is really good. I have appreciation for it. And I know if I'm bogeying or if I'm birdieing, I know when I'm like, I've seen myself on screen going, oh, you're kind of bullshitting there, McConaughey.

57:23And then I've seen it, I'm like, bam, okay. It's still 88. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but I'm also, as you know from the book, I'm not into extra credit. I don't like 4.2 GPAs. That tells me like, well, what happened? then we're not given the right test. If four was the pinnacle, that means not many people should be getting it, if anybody. So now we're getting four twos, four fours. That tells me we've over leveraged the original task or we've added amnesty or too many places to not have the real competence and merit at the task that you're supposed to get because especially I think in the West because we want everyone to feel really great.

58:05Participation trophies. 4.2 GPA well I feel better alright if you got the 4.2 GPA start getting a 3.8 education the credit that extra credit we give is sort of balanced with the debit of the actual what we learn from it sometimes if we give too much extra credit

58:41What validation do you pursue? you? My wife's, my children. I have a council in the sky of three people that are extremely important to me in my life. My dad, Penny Allen, and John Chaney. And I see them, wink at them, talk with them, listen to them, seeing run ideas by them, run decisions by them. And then I look up and see what their reaction is. And it's been a very trusted counsel for me. It's sort of my way to give people, practical people, physical bodies and souls that are no longer with us here on earth physically, to put them in a heaven sense. And it's a connection. They're a conduit from God to me.

59:38and I have no expectations of them. And sometimes when I'm so excited, like isn't this great, I look up and they're not dancing. I'm like, why aren't you dancing? We've got other times where two of them will be dancing and one of them isn't. And I have to go through, oh, why? Is that something they don't understand or are they the underdog and I need to be listening to them because that's why they're going, mm-mm, you know better than that. I don't agree with that. and then sometimes all three of them are you know my dad's got a you know dancing in his underwear with a Miller Lite and a piece of lemon meringue pie pennies up on a chair screaming out loud buddy John Chang just leaning back in his old cotton yellow shorts as he'd do with his shoulders back going there you go buh yeah so I think their validation And that's a conduit through a practical conduit in my imagination, because I don't have a picture in my mind of God.

1:00:41And I don't, I don't, I don't think we can or should. I think that minimalizes, you know, we have pictures of physical beings that have walked the earth that we can call prophets and stuff. But of God, I don't have a picture. I don't think it's an it. I don't think it's a Mr. or Mrs. or anything like that. um so and then i mean look then inherently that all brings me back to seeking my own my own validation um you know i try to measure how i counsel and referee myself off of some of the people i just brought up to you so that's where i pretty well stick that's where i prove i don't i don't really look outside that much further outside my circumference just because i can't it's too fickle yeah it's too i can't really i don't have a trust again that goes that sammy davis junior i have to try and look around and go does everyone approve yeah uh it's gonna be it's gonna gonna be lonely and hard and not necessarily the best for you you know what i mean and i know i've pulled some things off my life where i you know people thought i I changed and made it.

1:01:58Wow. What a recreation. I'm like, I'm doing the same thing. You just put it in bold print now. I was doing the same thing 15 years ago. You know what I mean? Sometimes we change by saying the same. And then other times, again, as we talked about in the beginning of the conversation, you give yourself time to daydream, you pick out a new tact about how to maybe go about something, a new way of uncovering something, a new way of solving something, a new way of finding satisfaction in the situation, a new way of dealing with a crisis, a new way of dealing with success, looking at it from a different point of view, just to have another, some almost ammo arrow in the quiver in this hunt at his life.

1:02:41How does someone like you who built their career on control grasp the concept of trust? I'm a trust first guy. I come here today, whether we had never talked before, I have nothing in my head going into anyone's situation. I wonder if they're trying to get me. Oh, is he going to ask a tricky question? Oh, is he trying to play a guy? I don't, uh-uh. Because that'll hang me up. I won't be able to freely think and go. Now, at the same time, have I been doing this long enough where before I'm about to say something or as I'm saying it, I can go, oh, if you don't finish this sentence, right, that's going to be a headline in a rag bag or something.

1:03:23You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Oh, that's not going to be the headline you want. I'm conscious enough of that. But I'm a trust first guy and I've been burned. And I'm like, I'll make that bet again. Because I know that if I put more trust on Howdy, it's going to do something to you. where maybe you aren't the most trustworthy. I've seen people become more trustworthy. I've seen people give more because they go, oh, this guy's given me a massive amount. He just empowered me, dude. He just gave me, he saw a dignity in me that I didn't see. He's given me a license, a privilege, some chutzpah to go, oh, okay.

1:04:07And I believe in that. And I see that in people and it's a bit of that, you know, may what we give from our soul get a like response from others. I believe in that response. process i'm a trust first guy i don't the residuals for going through life without trust oh shit that sucks yeah i mean i also you know i trust myself more now than maybe i used to and that thing that's just come from growth and evolution and and and you know i used to always be a guy who and i'm still a guy who i don't like drawers i like the stuff laid out I want to see it. Because if it's in the drawer, I'll forget I even needed it.

1:04:47I want to see it. I was always a guy who was like, if I'm going to come in this room, I'll make sure that my keys to the door in the other room on the kitchen table, leave that door cracked. I have more confidence now to go, you can shut the door. I know where I left the keys. I don't have to look over my shoulder again. I had this spiritually when I went to True Detective. I was in a really strong spiritual place. And that character, my relationship with God at that time was really strong. That character went into some philosophical nihilism and things that are like away from faith. I was able to go, I'm locking in and not looking back for five months.

1:05:33Wow. And I don't need to look over my shoulder because I know when I come out of this, my relationship's good back there. I don't need to peek over my shoulder to make sure I don't have a I tried to trust earlier and many other times in my life I wouldn't have the trust to go that far because I'm like is this okay and I'm about to get struck by lightning here is this blasphemous you know what I mean are we good you know okay I'm just acting you know what I mean so I had a great amount of trust I'm a strong spiritually then to go and when I feel stronger spiritually is that the foundation's strong.

1:06:12We can jump higher. We can go further. We can not look over our back as much and trust. And we travel and trust in relationships and away from the kids. I'm away from the kids right now. It's been a week. Okay, but we check in. Yeah, does FaceTime help with trust? Yeah, because you get to just more than just a phone call. But the idea of the very simple natural ideas of going, hey, it's 10 o 'clock. We're on the phone. I'm on one side of the world, you're on the other. But we're both under the same moon. We're both under the same sun. Sun you're under right now just hasn't got to me yet, but it'll be the same one.

1:06:51And the moon that I'm under right now just hasn't got to yet, but it's coming. There's a, again, that time. Now we're getting into the cyclical time you talk about and not the linear where we feel like, oh, I'm losing. Yeah. No, it's coming around. It's all about. there's a trust I get from that and then another trust I get is if I'm you know it's in between that it's it it all it means everything means everything and nothing matters at all yeah in between there yeah how do you yeah that like I love that how do we live like that so again trust if I'm gonna go to the fatalist side of what I do doesn't matter Doesn't matter.

1:07:38I'm going to die, dude. What's the matter? I used to not have the trust to go, oh, but I'm going to still do every bit of the work to make sure. And I'm putting my hands on the wheel. Right? So to go, oh, it doesn't matter. It's what I'll tell myself if I'm nervous. I'm going to go give a speech or something. I'm prepared. I busted my tail and broke the sweat to get prepared. I'm full. Now, if I trust that, and I know I did that. Now I need to tell myself, dude, this doesn't matter. You're going to die. What the hell does this matter? Because I know I'm not going to go be lazy and unprepared and F off.

1:08:16So now that I trust that I'm prepared and I take it very seriously, now I like to end it with, well, now, none of this matters to relax. If I go too much the other side, I'm tight. I'm trying too hard. I'm not giving myself the freedom to listen and riff and take somebody's answer and go with it. You know what I mean? So that's how I try to balance the two. But that took, but I didn't, 20 years ago, if I'd have said, and with some of us in life, if you tell them, dude, none of it matters. It's all fate. It's all going to happen. It's all just going to happen. People just F off and go like, well, it doesn't matter how I treat you or treat me.

1:09:03and you're like no it does but can you trust that you're not going to be a tyrant when you let yourself off yes you know what i mean yeah yeah well said well said it's that that balancing act in everything we're talking about everything we just keep coming back to that like to be able to believe that what i'm about to do is important and then have the ability to embrace my own insignificance at the same time is is beautiful like there's a quote i always remember hearing as a kid is like you're just a you're you're the smallest grain of sand in the palm of god and for whatever reason very early on in my childhood when i heard that that felt power from that i didn't feel smart i felt like wow how cool how awesome yeah and in that is the idea of like it all means something and none of it matters at all.

1:09:59Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's very easy to think of that analogy and go, oh, well, so I don't matter. No. Can that grain of sand in the palm make you go, oh, no, I matter more than I thought? Yeah. And it's both. Yeah. And it's both. And it's, yeah, I remember we were on a beach in South India. I was with my monk teacher and we were on a walk and it was a bunch of young monks with my teacher. And it's a big fishing town. So South India is very known for being a fishing community. And there'd be loads of fishnets full of fishes. And then there'd be the few that had fallen out on the beach as we were walking.

1:10:40And whenever we'd walk past one, my teacher would pick it up and put it back in the water. It was still, you know, tossing up and down on the beach. And we were just looking at the whole beach in front of us. And there were like hundreds, maybe, I don't know, maybe thousands of fish that had fallen out of the nets that won't go to be cooked in a restaurant, but won't make it back to the ocean and probably die in between. And he was just, every time we'd walk past, we'd pick one. And we'd be like, we said to him, we were like, we're not going to be here all day. And there's no chance we're going to get to all of these.

1:11:08And he was like, yeah, but to that one fish, that's their whole life. Like, you know, so to you, it's like, we're not going to get to 400. Because you, it's, and so it's both. It's like our work is insignificant, but it's significant. And then that goes back to that we can get paralyzed. You know, the think globally, act locally is another term. Yes, yes. We can get paralyzed, but I can't. It's too much to intermount. I'll just do one in a row. Yeah, one at a time, one step. Just one at a time. Yeah. And, you know, the sun sets and you had to be home by dark and there's still some fish just flipping.

1:11:43Well, get on home. And you didn't get them all, but you got. You were in the asset section. Sometimes that, I think, is how I deal with maybe letting myself off, trying to figure out a proper balance of forgiveness and saying, no, the buck stops here. You know, something I'm like, man, I'm not, I don't feel like this is magic or this is absolutely beautiful or this is absolutely true. I'll go, okay, not everything in life is going to be that. But are we in the asset section? Are we in the black, so to speak? Is the thing you're doing a proton, not an electron? Yeah, it is. Does it not harm? You know, sometimes, you know, I mean, I do this in work.

1:12:28Some scenes are magic. They come to life. You just know. Some scenes you get in, you're like, dude, I'm just connecting the dots. Let's just get out of here without, you know, I don't have a great truth to tell. Let me just get out of here without telling a lie. Yeah, yeah. sometimes I have to let myself off and go, not everything's going to be a wow, magical truth. Sometimes it's just till the soil and don't tell the lie. Don't, don't trip yourself. Don't hit the ball out of bounds. Yeah. Take one in the, it's in the rough. Yeah. You didn't have it out of bounds. You're still, you're still playing.

1:13:03Stay in the, just stay in the game on the upside. You know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes it's just that. Yeah. I remember when I had an acting teacher, I did a performance one time and I was real happy with it. She came back, she was like, not bad, but every single scene, it's like you're trying to hit a grand slam. Matthew, sometimes you need a single. Sometimes you need to take a ball that was not in the strike zone. Sometimes you need to lay down a bunt. Sometimes you need to, and I was like, oh, that's right. Not everything's a grand slam. It's not every single thing matters. If we think, you know, it's like, if we think every single thing is significant and everything matters, nothing will have significance.

1:13:43Yeah. We'll be paralyzed by minutia and details and stats. There will be no baseline to any of it. There will be no song. It'll all be notes. You know what I mean? Yeah. The idea of significance evaporates if everything was significant. Yeah. There is no, there would be nothing that. Right. stands out. I have a negative space. Or special. Yeah. It just wouldn't, it wouldn't hold. The idea wouldn't hold anymore. Yeah. What's the first, when I asked you the question about validation, the first person that came to you, um, at least what you said out loud was your wife, um, is here too. And, uh, I was wondering what, what do you feel is the biggest mistake we make about love?

1:14:25Biggest mistake we make about love. Oh, groovy, groovy question. Thank you. And she's back there probably listening right now going, I can't wait to hear this answer. I think one of the biggest mistakes that I think I know I could make is taking it for granted. Again, it's on the same topic we've been on. You vow to love each other in, say, a marriage, for instance, and it's through sickness and health until the death, and I love you, my love's not in question. It doesn't mean it doesn't take maintenance. To take it for granted that, oh, that's, we're fine. I'll take it for granted that, oh, we got, you know, we got the kids, the family.

1:15:06It's all great. To take that for granted sometimes and not do the maintenance,

1:15:16which shouldn't feel like work, but it's conscious. It can take work. It can be a thought and a choice you make to go, that little thing, I'm making my tea. She's not up. I really want to get to that puzzle for those eight pieces.

1:15:36I want to make her one, put it in a Yeti and have it covered so when she gets up, it's ready. A little thoughtful, a little thoughtful thing like that. Was that work? No. So, is that delayed gratification for the relationship? Yes. You know, that's going to, you know, that'd be a nice thing to do for them. If I don't do it, it's not going to be missed as a small example. I think another one with love, and you and I touched on it, I think, before cameras were recording, is the idea that you find the one and that's the one. And wow, I make, the male makes them Wonder Woman and they think we're Superman.

1:16:27Oh shit. Don't do that to me. And don't let me do that to you. I can't live up to that. You can't live up to that. to unanimous and seeking perfection, that's a tough nut to handle when you're like, project that on someone that's unfair to project onto them. And they project it on you and neither one of you can live up to it. It's the idea of the, and this is not a popular statement with my wife, but I think it's, for me, it's true. And I hope maybe I'm too practical about love. Maybe I'm not romantic enough about it. But I don't see how the honeymoon period lasts forever. I just, the honeymoon is all on the hope, the possible.

1:17:21We don't know each other as well as we're going to know each other. It's before we get married and we make the consecration and the covenant of marriage. And now we're getting into some real stuff. And we got real pains and real pleasures and real responsibilities and real fatigue. and real wins together. And we're building, we've expanded and we've got a family and oh man, we're bonfire. But that's harder and it's not, honeymoon's only in the perfection stage. It's only in the up in the air, the youth of it, the beginning, the springtime, the fresh bud. And I love it, but if you try to hold on to that hundred watt bulb to be the light All the time, you're Wonder Woman, I'm Superman.

1:18:10It seems to me humanly impractical to live up to it and unfair to each other. There's a preacher down in San Diego, my buddy Mark Norby turned me on to. I'm forgetting his name. But he talks about, I don't know, it's more like a, it's a 30 watt bulb. Dim the light a little bit. It'll last longer. It'll illuminate longer. Not as bright, but it'll last longer. It's more realistic for you and her. it's more human and it's still lovely. It's always stuck with me as a - I've never heard that, yeah. You know? It is true. Which honeymoon period lasts as it is and things can go deeper and be more powerful and be more profound but not be the same.

1:18:55And if you just dated someone new for three to six months every year, you'd experience the honeymoon period every year for the rest of your life. You'd just keep doing it. Peter Pan the honeymoon. and it's fresh and it's transient. It was all brand new, but it didn't have all four seasons. You didn't get into act two where the conflict comes, where somebody's getting sick, where you didn't get to act three, where you got to land the plane and figure it out and come down and be on your deathbed going, love you too. We did all right. You know what I mean? I always it's a I'd always in my younger years I'm like what do you think there's a God and you see him what do you what do you what do you think he's gonna say to you and I was always like I think he's gonna say thank you and then this hit me five years ago five years ago I was like no that's a bit arrogant there Paz what he's probably gonna say if meet him he's gonna say you're welcome in that is a a way I'm seeing life more now and to some extent have before but in that is an inherent sort of what are we doing you know is it lifelong is it short is it hard is it easy I don't know it's hard in some ways it's really long some ways it's easy it's really short and easy sometimes but you know

1:20:32yeah you're welcome and i can say thank you yeah but i've gotta yeah we've talked about i'm happy to i'm happy to and i'm not gonna shy away from with still being sensitive to people musicians that are like easy for you to say mcconaughey i'm not saying you're welcome to me you know i mean i'm not be open and understand that at the same time i'm very happy and level-eyed with with saying and believing that um and having a life where if i meet yeah they're gonna use he she it's gonna go you're welcome

1:21:16and that lays into that i wrote it in green lights but i do have a hunch that the world's conspiring to make me happy. Again, I may be off my rocker. I may be a conspiracy theory for the upside. I may be delusionally optimistic, and I don't care. I actually believe it. It's the trust first thing. And I actually believe it. And I believe I'm a part of a lot of other people's army that are there conspiring to make them happy. And I believe that I've got a lot of army that are going, not consciously, just, I believe, I look, I believe, I know I've got a lot of people in my life that believe, know that if I'm around, I'm looking out for them.

1:22:04And I have their best interest in mind, whether they know it or not, consciously. And I know I have a lot of people in life. Some I know, a lot I know, a lot I don't, that are like, I'm looking out for you, McConaughey. And I'm very thankful for that, but I believe that. And it is, I know it's true. Do you think we can all build that belief? Yes. I do think we can build that belief. That everything's conspiring. I don't think we can rely on that belief. I do think we can build that belief. I do think that, well, I'm raising, you know, kiddos, we're going to ACL, kiddos. We're going in backstage.

1:22:46Come on. Me and your mom are here. Pass the security guard. Let's just sit in. Did y 'all say thank you? Yeah, we did. Or no, I didn't. Well, go say thank you. Why? I don't know. Let's think selfishly, bud. 10 years from now, when you're at the concert and your mom and dad ain't here, who got you in backstage to the front of the line? And you're 20 people back in the line and they're saying, no more, that's it. There's a chance that security guard may look down there and go, hey, Levi, come on up. Come on in. because you said thank you. I'm not saying be that way for like, oh, then I can get more, I'll get more privileges.

1:23:28I'm just saying where you go, how you interact with people at whatever height, in the back kitchen, to the back door, to the alley, to the homeless, to the billionaire, to the president, how you interact with people. You're slowly building an army. I tell this example, and I was coming home about two years ago, two-lane highway, and it was all parked just on kind of a traffic jam. It was taking – we just moved five miles an hour stop, five miles an hour stop. And there was a lady in a car here, and we just moved into this new home. Lady in a car here, and everyone's like, you know, get forward as quick as possible.

1:24:13And she was waiting to get into the turn lane. And so I was like, we're not going anywhere. I slowed down. Let her in. 15 minutes it takes to get home i'm noticing i'm right behind this lady as i approach my house she pulls in the driveway to the first driveway before i get to my house i pull in my house i get out of my car it's my neighbor i didn't know it was my neighbor but i'm like i got somebody inherently watching over my house when i'm not here from now on because i let her in yeah back there yeah and She goes, thank you for letting me in back there. I'll remember that. Did I do that because I'm hoping I can get a neighbor and part of an army that can keep an eye out for me?

1:24:52No. Did I get an army, someone on my side? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The conspiring point too, I think if you believe that everything's conspiring for you to be happy, you just start to notice those moments. and I think noticing is so much more important than thinking because we all think but we don't always notice yes it's like what do we notice every day if you notice the security guard who opened the door if you notice the you know the lady who eventually becomes part of your army at home it's like what are you noticing because you can notice both like I think I could sit here with you and I'm sure you could tell me two stories one story of everyone who screwed you over took advantage of you, exploited you where the trust first didn't work.

1:25:41And I think you're telling me another story today, which you're noticing, which is you saying, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what do we, yeah. What do we notice? What are we aware of? What do we give credit to? I think that's part of the athleticism of life because that doesn't mean I'm not skeptical. Correct. It does mean I'm not cynical. It doesn't mean I'm not clever and wise and letting my home be just pillaged. No, no, no. I got a lot to protect and I protect it. It doesn't mean I'm foolish with myself or with my things and my life and the family and things I've built. But yeah, what do we notice?

1:26:28What do we give credit to? and go, oh, let's tend that garden. Let's multiply that. Let's get some compound interest on that ROI. Let's make that epidemic. Not the disease, not the wreck, not the harm. Let's talk about it in points of prayers. Make the positives plural. Yeah. And the negative singular. Yes. And don't talk about the negatives in the present tense. If they happened, talk about them in the past tense. You stopped their path to prophecy. That's the noticing thing. And that doesn't mean don't, oh, no, I don't see the negative. No, no, no, that's childhood. Hey, Hallmark card. Dream it.

1:27:15You can do it. Positive thinking. I ain't no longer. Yeah. See how far that gets you. You know what I mean? You'll be done unto. So we go from innocence to naivete to skepticism. And then if we can hold off there from going off the ledge into that fourth one, which is a disease cynicism, I'm all for skepticism and noticing the negative, seeing the harm, noticing the disease. but sure like to spend time and notice more and compound the interest on the prevention of those cures or the multiplied factor of the good things that are conspiring to work for us and are just like there we go that works not only for me for you too make those epidemic again flip flip flip the word epidemic's always used it's just something like oh no yeah just like consequence.

1:28:13We all go, oh, not the consequence. No, get consequences with everything. And the positive side, the pleasure side of consequence is just as valuable as the negative. You got to, you know. Epidemic selfish consequence. Those are the three that you're going to fight for. Matthew, I could talk to you for hours and hours and I've been so grateful for your time and energy. We end every episode with a final five, which you did last time. So we've reconstructed them for you. These questions have to be answered in one sentence, but I'll probably want you to riff, so feel free. Don't feel any pressure.

1:28:45Okay, but try to get them out in one sentence. You can try, but I would like you to, I want you to free flow, but yeah, you're always the best when you're free flowing, so I don't want to hamper you. Question number one, what do you believe makes a good dad?

1:29:08Time. Being there. You know, I always say this is, that's what makes a good father. You know, we're sometimes we're under the illusion that if we make the baby with father. No, you're not. You may be the daddy papa, but it takes time to be a father, to be there for your children, to balance sharing with them what you already know so they can learn a little quicker and hold them back and letting them fall from that tree limb and bruise their arm on their own, because that's how they'll remember it. Because even though you knew, sometimes there's certain heights, I call it like tree limbs, there's certain, kids go out on limbs.

1:30:08And if we brush every limb they go out on, I mean, they're on the limb and they're five years old and it's five feet above this soft St. Augustine grass. If we rush over there and go, get down, get down, get down. No, no, no, no. You're going to stomp their growth and they have fear of heights. Kids aren't scared of heights until they fall. Let them go out there. That's a safe fall. It may get a bruise. Now, there's certain ones if they're 60 feet up and it's a concrete, you might want to go, hey, bud, I was thinking, come on, just take your time and come on over to the trunk and shimmy on. Maybe get a help and get them down from that.

1:30:48But certain limbs, let them get on the end of it. Let them fall. Let them get bruised. They'll remember that from experience. And so, yeah. I like it. Question number two, what does it mean to be a real man? To be a real man? Well, you know, staying on the fatherhood thing, and this is not just the only definition, but I'll piggyback off the last question. The only thing I ever knew in life I wanted to be was a father. and it is because I remember when I was eight years old, my dad was a big yes sir and no sir man. So he would introduce me to his friends, right? And I would always, as eight year olds, looking up from four, five, six, seven, eight years old, shake their hand, yes sir, nice to meet you sir.

1:31:29And what hit me at eight years old was that all of those men whose hands I was shaking called them sir, they were dads, they were fathers. And in my eight year old mind, I went, oh, that's how you make it. That's success. Yes, become a father. That's how you become a man. That's how you become a king. So that's not answer across the board, but that's going to be my answer. Yeah, I love that. And I'll only do three because of time. Last one. What does it mean to be a good friend? Yeah. Yeah, your good friend reminds a friend of the best in themselves, the truth in themselves. Whether it's there to say, yeah, just like that when they are the most themselves, or whether it's there to go.

1:32:37So, hey, you know, you got this other way. When you're in a situation, you handled it like this, and it was so pure, man. And it kind of didn't go that way this day. So it's saying hard things and helping them kind of renegotiate or showing to them objectively, hey, I see who you are. You've shown me who you are. And then when you're you, I'm over here going, and I take great pleasure in seeing you succeed without me. Wow. Wow. That's powerful. A good friend really takes honest and earnest pleasure in seeing their friend succeed without him. To end, we got a little note from a good friend of yours.

1:33:31Oh. who sent it in. And I think it would be better if you read it out loud than me because it's for you. And so I'm going to hand it to you and you can read it out loud. Oh, what do we got here? I marvel at how you move through this world. Amazing actor, best-selling author, innovative entrepreneur, first-rate father, husband, and son. But more than anything, a brilliant philosopher. And it is that philosophy that pervades everything you do. One that intertwines curiosity with poetry. From the time I met you nearly 30 years ago, I knew you were my brother. And you continue to inspire me to this day.

1:34:15Love you, buddy. Wood. P.S. Miss our cuddle time. Me and Camilla, that is.

1:34:27perfect yeah ah thank you buddy thank you he is a great friend he is a great friend boy he is a good friend to me i love the way that he loves me it's really really beautiful to receive well matthew thank you for your time your energy uh whether i'm reading your books whether i'm your presence or whether I'm listening to you. As I said to you before the first time I interviewed you, I listened to your acceptance speech from the Oscars every day for 30 days, once upon a time in my life. And there's only two speeches I've done that with. One is Steve Jobs' commencement speech at Stanford, and one is your acceptance speech.

1:35:09I listen to it every day for 30 days. And it internalizes ideas and concepts and energy in a way that you don't get if you don't repeat. So very grateful to you for your life, your work. You're welcome. And thanks for sharing that with me, man. Yeah. Thank you so much. I had a wonderful time. Appreciate it. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. if you're trying to find your passion and your lane rick rubin's episode is the one for you just because i like it that doesn't give it any value like as an artist if you like it that's all of the value that's the success comes when you say i like this enough for other people to see it this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human