Michael Rubin: The One Mindset Shift You Need to Set Better Goals & See Patterns Before Your Competition

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:06Okay, question. What is the best and worst way to communicate with friends? Obviously, messaging. I mean, it's great, but it can go off the rails. There have been times I opened up a group chat and saw 200 messages. And by the time I caught up, I still didn't know what the plan was. Well, WhatsApp can help. First, you can message privately with everyone. And you can edit messages, create polls, do pin messages and send invites. Plus photos and videos look better. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone.

0:44Lowe's knows that rewards members get more. That's why when you sign up for My Lowe's Rewards or My Lowe's Pro Rewards today, you get member deals, points and more. Plus, you get free standard shipping starting at Silver Key and Goal Pro status. Savings for rewards members add up fast, so why wait? Become a rewards member for free and get more savings today. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions. Details at lowes.com forward slash terms. Subject to change. This is Jay Shetty from On Purpose. If you've ever felt off balance, sometimes a change of scenery is the best reset. Delta invited four creators to explore one idea.

1:33What if travel isn't just movement, but recharging in motion? And the results? Based on their Oura Ring sleep scores, everyone met the day feeling more rested. And a sense of clarity stayed long after the trip. With Delta, fly and live better. Explore the whole journey on Delta's YouTube channel Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which is awesome I mean, I don't have to tell you that it's a primary focus of On Purpose But on a day-to-day basis, many people don't know where to turn or which tools can help Over the past couple of years, I've been working with Calm to make mental wellness accessible and enjoyable Or as I like to say, fun and easy Calm has all sorts of content to help you reduce anxiety and stress Build mindful habits, improve sleep And generally feel better in your daily life So many bite-sized options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world Along with renowned meditation teachers You can also check out my 7-minute daily series To help you live more mindfully each and every day Right now, listeners of On Purpose get 40 % off a subscription to Calm Premium At calm.com forward slash j That's C-A-L-M dot com forward slash J-A-Y For 40 % off Calm your mind, change your life I don't give a f*** about my network So many people tell me I've got this great idea But I don't want to hear about but Like let's go for it Part of being an entrepreneur is to have the courage to fail If you're afraid to fail you ain't gonna do s*** The global sports company Fanatics You heard of it?

3:08Yeah, yeah Founder and CEO Michael Rubin Welcome back sir I've seen death in its eyes I've almost gone bankrupt multiple times There are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit. If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you're actually saying you want to fail. Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started.

3:40I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me. The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that my goal here and intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different walks of life, people who've achieved impact in their own life and are having an impact around and across the world.

4:12People who are motivated to do better, be better and give back. And today's guest is someone who's doing exactly that. Probably not as fast as he would like, I've just learned as well. I'm talking about the one and only Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist and social justice advocate. Michael has built several multi-billion dollar direct-to-consumer companies. Michael's CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform that is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael's an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co-chair of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the biggest names in sports, business and culture that's dedicated to advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that perpetuate injustice in the United States.

5:00Michael was named Sports Business Journal Executive of the Year in 2022 and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power 50 list of most influential people in sports. Welcome to On Purpose, Michael Rubin. I'm happy to be here. I've watched what you've done, admire what you do, and you've got such an incredible following and just huge respect for you. Well, thank you. The feeling is very mutual. It's been amazing watching you from afar. And I've always been fascinated and drawn to people who've built incredible businesses and then used their platform for impact because growing up, I didn't see a lot of that.

5:32Growing up, I either saw people build businesses or have an impact. And so when I see people doing the same, it's exactly the values I try and live by. And I love watching it. So thank you for going down that line. But let's dive straight in. I want to ask you, Michael, what was, you know, you're such a successful business person. What was your first ever job that you ever had in life? So for me, I think a lot of people know the story. I was a terrible student, you know, barely made out of high school, went to college for less than a semester. As bad as a student as I was, I was honestly a worst athlete.

6:01Like I was just, I wasn't coordinated. I wasn't a good athlete. The one thing I was always good at was working. Like I loved business from the time I was a kid. So everything I remember about being young was working. So my first job was that I can remember was probably eight years old. I probably had like five different side hustles. I mean, I was selling trading cards, you know, by the way, not to my friends, but to my friend's parents, because they had the money. I was, when it would snow in Philadelphia where I grew up, I would get five kids to do the snow shoveling. I would go door to door and actually sell the snow shoveling.

6:29And I was selling vegetable seeds door to door. I was making stationery on the Apple II Plus and selling it. I mean, I was just like, I was the real entrepreneur. Like it's what I was good at. It's what I like doing. And so I had so many different jobs as an eight-year-old. But I mean, that's like when people say, you know, how long you've been at it, it's crazy. 43 years. I've been doing this since I've been eight years old. Wow. And when you were doing that, was there any inspiration? Was it just you wanted money? What did you want to buy? What were you doing with that? Like what excited you about it?

6:55I don't think for me, even at eight years old, it was ever about money or wanting to buy things. I think it was always about doing what you're good at. And for me, knowing that I wasn't good, like I had a lot of learning challenges. I mean, as a kid, like I had every, you know, person to try to help me with all the things I sucked at, whether it was athletically or, you know, it was just like, I just, I wasn't good at sports. I wasn't good at school, but business was what I was good at. So I just always gravitate to that. I think that's a good thing. Like you should always figure out how to do things that you love.

7:24you should figure out how to do things that you're good at and kind of double down on that so that's always been my whole life how did you know that at eight because i feel like most eight-year-olds today obviously playing video games back then they were probably watching tv maybe they were out riding a bike like how did you know that you were good at this and i think it's something for me i was born with like i was born with that entrepreneurial hustle i think i came out of the womb like just you know wanting to be an entrepreneur like just loving the hustle and you know to me you know i've been at this a long time i work harder than i've ever worked today I love it's an honor to do it's fun it's an opportunity like I'm never tired I'm never worn out like I'm just always I just want to go yeah can it be learned can you teach people to hustle and grind and develop that mindset or is it born with as you are so I think I was definitely born with it that said I do think you know for me the way I learned is by being a sponge from people so I'm always picking things up from different people like if you just look at the diversity people I have around me like I'm always taking so much learnings from them to you know be better and what I do.

8:20And I try to give those back. So yeah, I think you can definitely learn a lot of this stuff. Just find people you respect, find people that you admire, find people that you wanna be like and then take the good from them. And by the way, figure out what they do that you don't like and ignore that. Like I see good and bad in each person. I try to take the good and learn from the bad. And same thing with me. I've got lots of bad habits. I mean, like I'm myself, that's right. That's all I ask for. That's all I ask for. There is no judgment here. There's no, it's a safe space. I just want people to be their authentic selves.

8:47And so please continue to be yourself. And what's, so I love that idea of learning from people, being a human sponge. What's the most recent or most memorable thing you think you took away from someone, a conversation, a moment, something you read or heard or learned? Was there anything that kind of stuck with you? Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, I'm in LA for the week. I'm doing six to 10 meetings a day in my house. And, you know, two of the people I met with in the last two days have been through some real challenges and just watching the challenges that they've been through. I'm like, okay, I need to be that much more careful about how I conduct myself and everything that I do.

9:22So to me, I'm always taking learnings away from people. I think if you're not, like, you know, you have no chance of like, you know, getting better at what you do. I mean, it's like, life is no different than sports. You just gotta keep getting better at your sport. And so to me, I keep working at everything I do. Yeah, what do you think? Obviously now, like when you started 43 years ago at eight years old, entrepreneurship wasn't as touted as this incredible opportunity. It wasn't touted, it was actually weird. right like to be clear like i was a nerd like like that i loved business like entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology like i i don't think it became cool till almost the the from my perspective i think it was that really the the birth of the dot-com era yeah you know kind of late 90s is when entrepreneurialism became cool i think before that was kind of nerdy and weird so i was definitely born before it all yeah and i'd say even after the financial crisis in like 2007 seven, eight, like that recession, which is because I grew up in the era where we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants.

10:18So when I was at college or when I was growing up, that was seen, if you were into business, my goal was to go into that world because that's what I aspired for. Whereas I think the generation after me and the one after me, they were like, I'm not going to go work for someone. I want to build something on my own. I think that's amazing. For me, I love, one of the things that I'm fortunate enough to do is really, I think in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism. And, you know, one of our biggest businesses, the collectibles business, which is trading cards and memorabilia, and that's all about entrepreneurs.

10:44There's so many entrepreneurs in that business. It's probably the business in a lot of ways that I, I actually relate to all three of our businesses, but it's the business that's maybe the most relatable for me because I grew up selling trading cards as an eight-year-old, but also it's all about entrepreneurialism. Talk to me through that business because, so I remember, so back in London, obviously, where I grew up, I collected football stickers, right? Soccer stickers. So that's what we'd have. You'd have the spread with all the Premier League clubs and you'd collect the little stickers. And that was a big part of collectibles.

11:11How has that industry evolved as technology has grown? Or has it stayed the same? Were people still collecting cards and like Top Trumps and things like that? Yeah, well, I'll say we got into the business about three years ago in a really significant way. And today we own Topps, which is the kind of preeminent brand in trading cards. I'd say that until our arrival in the industry a little less than three years ago, I said there hadn't been a tremendous amount of innovation. there hadn't been a tremendous amount of marketing. You know, we kind of looked at the business and said, wow, like this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible fan base, yet it hasn't changed for like decades here.

11:46And you go to, you know, the big trading card show where there's more than 100 ,000 people that come to Chicago this past summer. It's called the National Trading Card Show. Yeah, it looks like something from 20, 30, 40 years ago. So for us, that just meant opportunity. It meant if you actually make innovative products, you actually really market these products, you build a better consumer experience and bring people forward into 2023 like what an opportunity so for me like we do that in all of our business like i like we love finding great opportunities big challenges and kind of being unrelenting about going after them yeah how has that changed how has that practically changed like are people still buying cards and trading physical cards the biggest part of business in a lot of ways very similar to art but i can tell you like just as one quick example this year you know our team came in and actually the ceo of our business mike man said hey i got a great idea every time a player debuts for the first time i want to put a patch on their jersey and then as soon as they get done the game i want to put that patch off and put it in a one-on-one trading card so you have the card from from the first so think about for for us you know maybe i grew up in the michael jordan era had i had you know michael jordan or yeah if i had michael jordan or cobe's first one-on-one cards yeah that could be the the most valuable keepsake that i could ever have and so you know that innovation like for us it was really simple like yeah why would you not want to put a patch on someone's jersey stick it into a card and make this a one-on-one card but no one did that until we created it and by the way it's already live we came up with the idea this past december it wasn't it was live in in april with all baseball players gonna be three to four hundred baseball players debut this year you know with this debut patch that we put into a one-on-one card so that's just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because you have to be aggressive like we have to be great entrepreneurs we have to push whatever we do yeah no what i love about that though for everyone who's listening is i think we're stuck in this world now that believes that all innovation has to be digital or technological or virtual or some sort of, you know, AI, whereas this is like the most tangible physical change, but it's still so valuable because it's what people want.

13:40Look, we're in three business there. First business where we started is what we call Fanatics Commerce. That's a merchandise business. We own Lids, the retailer. We own Mitchell Ness. We own Fanatics, which operates, you know, obviously all of the different league, you know, the NFL shop, the NBA store. and we sell more than$6 billion of mostly fan apparel and headwear, okay, about more than 100 million units of merchandise a year. That's a very physical business, okay? But AI is helping us to do things more effectively. In the collectibles business, AI is going to help us to be more effective.

14:11And then our third business is the online sports betting and iGaming business. So for me, we still do a lot of physical things, but there's so many things in the digital world that help us to be better. Yeah, no, but I love that collaboration and thinking about it that way because sometimes the greatest value to someone is a physical change, but you're learning that through the AI. I still want to wear my Kobe jersey. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I want my Bron card. Yeah, that's the same thing. I'm still buying, I support Manchester United. That's my soccer team and I'm still buying, you know, soccer jerseys every single year.

14:38Well, we appreciate that because that's a fanatic side. That's a fanatic store. Even though I absolutely, even though we absolutely suck right now, but it's, you know. But that's what being sports fans about. Sometimes you're going to have great years and you're getting those championships and other times you're going to suck and you got to stay with your team. You gotta feel the pain. I'm a real fan now. I grew up as a glory hunter because we just won everything. And now I'm going through real fandom of 10 years. We're gonna test you now. We're gonna see what you're made of. Are you really committed to Man United here?

15:02Yeah, I'm being tested right now. I'm being tested. But we were talking about people not being, entrepreneurship not being touted when you started. When you look at it today, now it's become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for people to wanna try. It's not necessarily things people are good at, like you said you were. it's not necessarily a skill that we honor or give it the kudos that it deserves what are the mistakes people are making when they think about being an entrepreneur today well first of all entrepreneurialism isn't for everybody but if you think it's for yourself you better go out there and try it put your best foot forward you know for me look the biggest mistakes i see people make in building a business are kind of a couple common themes one is first you have like are you even going to take the at-bats so many people tell me i've got this great idea but like i don't want to hear about but like let's go for it let's if you have an idea you want to do something you know i love the story you were just telling me before we went on here that you came over here and you know you worked one place for six months then you're like i want to go out and do this you went out and did it like part of being an entrepreneur is to have the courage to fail like you just have to go out there and try and by the way when you fail which many times you will you're going to learn from that failure you're going to grow from that failure you think the best you talked about kobe being your favorite, you know, athlete.

16:15Well, guess what? How many times did he fail and then he got better and he pushed through it? And so that's what being an entrepreneur is. So from my perspective, it's really all about first and foremost, if you have something you want to do, if you believe in it, go for it. Don't worry about whether you succeed or not. Go out and take the swing. And if, guess what? If you strike out, if you fail, just go back again. And I know some people are gonna say, oh, well, he's really successful now, so it's easy to say. But I gotta tell you something. I've like I've seen death in its eyes you know I've almost gone bankrupt multiple times you know I've had epic failures and every one of those led me to be better in what I do so that's my first thing second thing I'd say is you need great people around you to succeed like whether it's great people you're learning from that you want to be a sponge from whether it's you build a great team to do what you do like I know for fanatics we have 18 ,000 people that get up and go to bed obsessed with how do we improve the fan experience each day but like I collect and work with the best people on the planet.

17:08Like if you don't work with great people, you will fail. Like you can't win a championship if you don't have great talent, but that talent also works, needs to work together. And then the last thing, and this will sound corny, but like have fun in what you do. Like I love what I do. I have the greatest, you know, job in the planet. I get to wake up, you know, work 18 hours a day, go to bed thinking about, you know, what's next. I dream about my work nearly every day. Like I'm having work dreams all the time because I'm obsessed with what I'm doing. It's like, it's, it's fun. It's like, I should pinch myself.

17:34It's so awesome what I get to do. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. I'm Radhi Devlukia and I'm the host of a Really Good Cry podcast and I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Ury. Logan is a dating expert, a behavioral scientist, a best-selling author and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating that Logan has studied and tested from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using to the conversation starters that actually work.

18:14And the huge no-nos that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps. Whether you're single, dating, or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need. Relationships do require work and the best relationships are people who really work on them together. They're so focused on if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection. Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

18:51The risks they took would be unthinkable to any doctor today, But odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys, a podcast that tells the gripping true story behind the birth of open-heart surgery and the maverick surgeons who made it happen. It changed the way we live. It changed the life expectancy of people throughout the world. I should be dead. The repair that he did when I was six years old saved me. A ragtag group of surgeons united by a common mission. Some appeared on the cover of Time magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents.

19:35Others ended up disgraced, penniless, convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine. It's as if a man landed on the moon and nobody even told the story, except this is more important. Listen to the Cardiac Cowboys podcast starting February 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, absolutely. No, I love hearing that. And I think, you know, what's fascinating to me as well with being an entrepreneur, you know, my story was very different to finding my way into entrepreneurship. I grew up thinking I had to have a steady job because that's how I was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me academically astute.

20:14And so I was a straight A student, did first class at uni. Like I was always good at that. And then I got into a job afterwards after my own detour. And when I finally got into a job, I was just like, this doesn't feel right. Like this doesn't feel like this is going to use my skills to the best of my ability. This doesn't feel like I'm going to propel and do well and become my best version of myself. It wasn't about money or what I thought I could win at. It was, I just don't feel this is going to complete me or make me feel like I'm winning in the way that I can. Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do every day.

20:48I'm going to tell you something. I know a lot of people that have been really successful financially and they're miserable. You know what? They don't love what they do every day. They're not happy. Like for me, I don't think about financial success. I think about like just loving what I'm doing. Now, financial success can tell you, are you winning or losing? That's your report card. That's the scoreboard, right? Good financial results means you're winning. Bad financial results means you're not winning in the current moment. but for me like i just want to love what i do every day i i can agree with you more i want to wake up and do what i love every day which is why i do this because i get to sit down with fascinating people pick people's minds and then we each learn from each other absolutely absolutely i guarantee i'll learn i'll leave here today having picked up some things from you and you'll leave from here oh i'm definitely gonna yeah that's the way it works that's the way like we should all be students of each other yeah absolutely who's who's the randomest person you've learned from i wonder like who's the most curious random intriguing person that we wouldn't expect for you to learn from like not like a business mogul or a you know someone like that but someone you're like you know what that person i didn't expect to learn from them but i did is there someone like that comes to mind i could give you a thousand examples i mean i could tell you when i used to be part of the ownership group of the philadelphia sixers i'd walk through the arena and i would ask lots of arena workers what's going on here today you know what's working what's not working like you know you can pick up things from everybody i could i could walk through the street look at what someone's wearing say hey where'd you buy that is that a good do you like that you're not like that like i'm always asking questions so you know for me i i mean that's pretty random if you just walk up in the street and ask somebody you know where'd you buy that why'd you buy it do you love that what so i'm always picking things up i'm watching the way trends are changing with people i'm probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity of friends that i have and i'm learning from the people around me every single day yeah i think that's the only way you understand the pulse of human behavior right it's like asking questions watching patterns.

22:37I think pattern watching is an ability, whether it's an algorithm, whether it's the stock market, whether it's crypto, whatever it is for people, watching patterns is such an unbelievable skill. Would you say that's a skill that you've honed and developed and built? Well, I think it's a really important skill in business because I think it's very predictive of the future. Okay. So the reality is when someone comes in and I'm interviewing a top executive for a role in one of our businesses and they could seem great. And then I'm going to go out and I'm never going to ask anybody for a reference ever.

23:07I've never asked somebody, Hey, can you tell me who to call? Like that's the, you asked me for reference on myself. I'd call each other's people and say, Hey, I gave you as a reference, make sure you say great things about me. Right? So the reality is I'll interview somebody. The first thing I do is if I like them, as soon as they leave, I go out and I start calling people that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns. Okay. Because to me, 50 % is the interview and 50 % is what I learned behind the scenes and that's probably the more important 50 because someone can blow me away and then you know you'll find out one minute that person sucks that person people don't like working with them or you can find out that person was a little bit understated but they're a beast you know they've got huge followership um they're super smart they've got an unrelenting work ethic so to me pattern recognition is everything i use in everything that i do by the way i use pattern recognition when i go play blackjack with my friends you know there's three types of cards you're going to get cards are either going to be you know you're either streaking hot you're drinking cold or you're kind of in between and you know when you're cold you should not do what sometimes i'll do if i'm misbehaved which is be aggressive when you're cold because you got you got a pattern going on so you got to recognize patterns whatever you do i find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs hire and fire and recruit and you know reward and retain people what have you found when you're interviewing someone i feel like you must have interviewed so many people over the years for huge positions small positions in the beginning what are you looking for and how are you finding out apart from the second part which i love calling up people that you have in common what are you asking what are you looking for and how are you making sure you find it in that very date-like format so let me say first of all and this will i think shock you i still probably spend 10 to 20 percent of a 70 to 90 hour work week interviewing people okay so i am a beast on finding great talent for within our companies because to me you can't win without great talent so it is probably the thing or one of the things i spend the most time on is the quest for incredible talent i'm looking for first does someone have the subject matter expertise and the intellect to be successful in what we want them to do and then two do they have the leadership skills, because generally I'm interviewing people that are either going to work for me or someone who's going to work for someone who I work with.

25:28So let's say the top 50 to a hundred people within our, our 18 ,000 people. So I'm looking for people that are going to be real leaders, um, that are going to, you know, share the same values that we share. I'm looking for people that can be with us for a long period of time. Like I don't want people that want to come in and be with us for three years. I want people that want to come, like, I like people want to be with us and build their careers with us for maybe their entire life. You know, we want people that are just going to be, you know, and also people that are going to like just they're gonna figure out how to win they're gonna put it on their shoulders they're gonna be unrelenting like that's my personality like there are so many things that i should not have succeeded at but i have because i won't quit okay and so so i think those are some of the things that i just rambled you that i care about no no i i love those and i guess the thing about not quitting is really interesting right because you've got this unrelenting you can see it in the way you speak in your eyes like i've just spent a few moments with you we've never met before today and I can fully see that it is just at the core of who you are and you probably find that you can push people and they may not be able to go as far every time because they may not have that same energy in them so how have you found that balance of like seeing someone who you know has the potential you know they have the skills but it's almost like they're like Michael I already went seven times and you're like yeah dude we're gonna go 17 because I know at 17 we're gonna get there Yeah, I think the people that are in my real inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that I work with day in and day out.

26:52The people that run my three businesses, the online sports betting and iGaming business, the commerce business, which is merchandise, and the collectibles business, which is trading cards and memorabilia. These businesses and then my three corporate executives, like they have that same mentality. I wouldn't want to work with anyone that didn't have that mentality of like, you know, because they're saying the culture for the entire 18 ,000, you know, employees at Fanatics. And so to me, people don't share our core values. You know, they don't believe in what we believe in. There's probably not going to be the right fit.

27:24They could be a great human being, a great individual, just not be right for us. Do you ever take a break? Have you ever taken a break? To me, I don't understand work-life balance. It's just, it's not who I am. So I'm not going to apologize for it. And I know I sound like if people get listened to say like this guy's a little bit deranged and, but I am who I am. I know like, I know what I'm good at and I know what I like doing. I mean, it may shock you, but I fully relate to it. Like to me, it's, I, you know, I think people. I appreciate it. I'm trying to get more people to, you know, try to get more people to not look at me like I'm crazy.

27:52And I would agree with, I feel exactly the same way. Like this week, and this is my average normal week. I have morning hikes where I'm out with people that I work with, but I love them and I enjoy their company. They're not people I have to work with. They're people I enjoy working with. So I'm having a hike meeting in the morning, which is, you know, 7.30 a.m. Then I'm at work, whether I'm doing this or whatever I'm up to, whether I'm recording meditation. So sometimes I'm alone in a studio and sometimes I'm with people. And then I have meetings. And then I've been having dinner meetings too.

28:19And I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way. I've had the best interactions. I'm getting to know the best people. I know their families. I know they're getting to know their kids, their spouses, whatever it is. And to me, it's like, this is what I want life to be. I actually don't look at life as work and life. Like I don't have that disconnect. And I actually think that when you look at life as a disconnect, that's when you think you're taking away from the other. And that's what creates friction. I also think if you do what you love to do, it almost breaks those barriers down. Totally. Yeah, no.

28:47So I'm actually more on your side than people may think. I'm a big fan of having my daily routines and habits that make me the best version of myself. Like obviously meditation, working out, there are certain non-negotiables. Are there things in your day that you do that are your routines that may not be those things, but things that you're like, you know, this one thing that I do per day, this makes me feel great. It's probably centered around work, if I'm going to be honest with you. I mean, I was always pleasantly plump until my journal came out. So now that my journal's came out, I've gone from 210 to 160.