OPRAH WINFREY: The Life Lessons That Changed Everything

24:51Jay Shetty:But I feel like for you also, you've talked about this, like the abuse you experienced. You were pregnant at 14 years old. I was not supposed to be here. This is really difficult, traumatic, tragic, circumstances. Like genuinely, like these are, this is not an easy life. At the time that I became pregnant, y 'all, in 1968, I'd been molested since I was nine. So by the time I became pregnant, and I wasn't even sure, Jay, how babies got here, but a girl had told me on the playground and explained to me that what I was doing, what I was secretly doing, being molested, that that's how babies came.

25:34So I remember at nine years old, after being raped for the first time and hearing this girl on the playground talk about where babies came from, I remember thinking then, I must be pregnant then. I'm going to have a baby and going the whole year being terrified. So I was first molested by a cousin and then molested by another relative and then molested by a friend of the family and then molested my uncle. I was just speaking to someone yesterday who is overcoming this trauma in an institution trying to deal with all of it. And they were saying, you know, it was like, did I have a sign on my head?

26:15I go, no, it's not a sign on your head, but every molester knows the child who's lonely, knows the child who won't tell, who's afraid to tell. And I said, I was one of those kids and you obviously were one of those kids because I have since interviewed many molesters over the years because in an attempt to try to understand what had happened to me and help other people, they have told me with their own voices that they choose the kids and groom the kids that they think will not tell. Actually, the thing that freed me when I was 42 and did this interview on the Oprah show. Up until that time, I still carried the guilt.

26:59Even though I was telling everybody else and I'd read all the books and I'd done all the research and interviewed many people saying, it's not your fault, it's not your fault. There was a part of me that felt that my nine-year-old self was still responsible. And then I started looking at nine-year-old girls. When you look at a little nine-year-old girl, you just can't imagine that somebody would rape that girl. And then I interviewed a guy who said that he tried for six months grooming his 13-year-old stepdaughter, and that he started out by playing games. And at first it would be games with everybody, and then the games became more like playing Twister on the ground.

27:47And then he'd say, I tried to touch her knee and then I'd touch her thigh. And then he said, one day, it took me six months to get to the point where I felt I was comfortable enough to touch her breasts. And he said, I just rubbed up against her breasts, but I held my arm there too long. And she said, hey, what are you doing? And he thought, oh, I went too far. And I went and told the wife, he said, I hate it when people call their wives the wife. I went and told the wife, he said, and I got to her before her daughter did because I knew that if I got to her before her daughter did, she would believe me and not her daughter.

28:27And that is what freed me. Do you understand? That is what freed me because I realized for the first time it was planned. It was planned. I was set up and every kid who has been molested was set up they planned it they thought about it they strategized and so the tickling that I had for years blamed myself because I let him tickle me he started tickling the bottom of my feet And then it grew to touching my body parts. And before I knew it, it was out of control. And so for years I blamed myself for the tickling until that guy on the Oprah show explained how he had groomed his daughter. And I realized, oh, the tickling had been planned.

29:37And I remember when I went to tell my father, after his brother had violated me, my father said, I was 42. And my father said, well, was it really rape? And I realized, oh, this is why I never told. And I said, Dad, I was 14. and he was 49. So it would not have mattered if I had walked into the room buck naked. He had the responsibility of an adult. This is the reason why I never shared it before. So yeah, I became pregnant at 14. I didn't even know that I was pregnant. And I'd been sent to live with my father. So I was living with my mother and I got sent away to live with my father. and when I came into the house, he hadn't seen me for years.

30:34And my father said, well, I tell you one thing, you've been in Milwaukee and you've not had the rules and regulations, but in this household, you do what I say. And he said, I would rather see a daughter of mine floating down the Cumberland River, which is a river in Tennessee, than to bring shame on this family. Oh my gosh. With pregnancy. So you're going to have a curfew, you're going to be home by 10 o 'clock, you're going to be there. I was already pregnant. And I knew that if my father found out, my father would, you know, he would want to kill me. He said, I'd rather see you floating down the Cumberland River.

31:17Jay Shetty:I can't imagine how you felt in that moment. I remember being sent to the doctor at 14 after my ankles swole. And the doctor said, Either this is the biggest tumor I've ever seen, or your daughter is pregnant, he said to my father. And my father's sense of shame, I took that shame on. I left the hospital, and the baby died a couple of weeks or a couple of months afterwards now. I don't even remember the time frame. I just remember I came home and I was in sort of a suspended reality. I'd gone back to school. Nobody at school knew because if anybody at school had known, I would have been kicked out of school.

32:08Those were the rules then. And my father had said that now you can no longer go to school because you have a child. So now this is going to be your responsibility. And so after the baby died, my father said to me, this is your second chance. this is your second chance. And if I were you, I would take advantage of it. And I did. I became a major overachiever, speaker, winning every contest, getting all the grades, doing all the things that were about performing. And I was doing that to prove that I was worthy of being a good person. And it wasn't until I was 42 and did that show with like five different molesters that I freed myself from the shame.

33:04Because I carried the shame. No matter what you saw, I still carried the shame of it was still my fault. It was still my fault. And I realized my family, you know, now a girl gets pregnant. The family either embraces it. The child is adopted. They bring the child into the family. It's not the scarlet letter and you have brought shame upon this family. But in my family at the time, it was scorned. It was a really bad thing. And I thought of myself as, you know, I'm this person who can achieve a lot, but I have this thing behind me. It was my greatest shame, and a member of my family, my sister, half-sister who's no longer with us, became a drug addict and went to the tabloids and shared that story.

33:57Jay Shetty:Oh, my God. And I thought that that was going to be the end of my life. I thought, okay, that's it. It's over. And it wasn't. And it wasn't. So I remember getting the call from the National Enquirer saying, your sister is sitting here in our offices and she has a story. And when that story came out, I was not able to get out of bed. I just thought, hmm, that's it. It's over. because I had a lawyer at the time who'd said to me, are any stories that you wouldn't want to get out or you wouldn't want to tell me everything? And I told him that story and he goes, never share that story. Never share that story.

34:44So I always thought if you ever shared the story, everybody's going to think you're a really, really, really bad, terrible person.

34:50Jay Shetty:And they didn't. And that's the double shame you're carrying. Yeah. Because it's almost like you're carrying the shame from feeling like it was your fault. 100%. And now you're carrying the shame of what will people think of you from that. Because my father said, I'd rather see you floating down the Cumberland River than to bring shame on... This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions.

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37:36Jay Shetty:20 % off your first purchase at vuori.com slash halo20. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash H-A-L-O-2-0. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. The name of this family, it actually became the most liberating thing I could have done for myself because after the tabloids, I felt free to discuss on the show my own abuse and me being able to talk about it in front of, you know, audiences of women opened up the floodgates and you realize, wow, you are not the only one. You are not the only one. I'd heard this woman when I was doing a talk show in Baltimore in the early years, had told the story of herself being raped, molested by an uncle.

38:36And as she's telling the story on the air, I'm just like, whoa, this has happened to somebody else. And I went into the green room afterwards and said to her, I can't believe, I can't believe that's my story. And she said, why didn't you say something? and I said I was too ashamed. I couldn't. And so the next time somebody shared something on the air, I said it, I came out with it. But still hadn't said, and I had a baby. And I had a child. And I was molested and I had a child. Anyway, thanks for the therapy, Jay.

39:18Jay Shetty:No, I mean, thank you for taking us back there to such a painful moment, but also how incredible that you were so curious and so open to healing and growth that you were willing to sit and interview molesters. And that became the thing. And how poignant, the point you're making is so powerful. And I feel like anyone who's listening, who's been through anything like that would feel so liberated and freed hearing you say that because we don't realize that the person who's been hurt is the one carrying the blame. The person who's been taken advantage of is the one carrying the blame, thinking they allowed that, they did that to themselves.

40:05I still talk to people all the time. Just yesterday, the day before, I was talking to a man who's like in his 50s saying the same thing. But why didn't I tell? And why didn't I think? I go, you didn't tell because you didn't feel safe to tell. Just like I didn't feel safe to tell. You didn't tell because every molester who is any good at it is going to pick the child who's not going to tell. And every molester wants you to believe that it was your fault. Every molester is, it's a seduction. so you're laughing because you're getting tickled you're enjoying it you're having a good time and then before you know it your pants are down or his hands are in your panties and you don't know how did I get here so I I just feel like there's still so many people who are carrying the shame that I carried.

41:05I have the tears, but the tears are really for the girl that carried that shame. I don't feel that anymore at all. I absolutely was able to free myself and release myself when I understood. And I went in search, as you said, I went in search to find out, and that wasn't even the first group of molesters. I started talking to molesters because I wanted to understand how and why they did it. what was their motivation for doing it and how they were able to do it and live with themselves in doing it i interviewed a young boy in his i think he was in his 30s at the time who started molesting his sister when he was 17 and his sister was five and he said it would have been better if i had killed her i would have been better off murdering her because i just murdered and ruined her life.

42:00So she will never be the person that she was supposed to be because of that molestation. So I, you know, over the years, I probably did 200, 250 shows on, you know, sexual assault, molestation, children, because I was in search of the answers for myself.

42:19Jay Shetty:What have you learned about the difference between someone who that becomes the breakdown of their life and for you how it became the breakthrough of your life like what have you learned about the difference in how people who are hearing and they may be in a breakdown can actually go oh that's not going to stop me that actually could propel me forward well i think for myself being able to have a level of success after the pregnancy for for example if i had been taken out of school, none of this would have happened to me. If I had been deprived of an education and then had to go get a job at whatever salary, working for whatever, just to take care of my child, I might have had a very, very, very different attitude about life.

43:13But because I was able to go back to school, and as my father said, take this second chance, I was able to see that you are not the worst thing that has happened to you. You can go forward. You can continue. You can have successes in your life. And I think for a lot of people who didn't get that chance, for whom having the child then puts you in a circumstance where now you got to work and then you got to take care of yourself and you got to pay the rent and you got to do the, life just keeps piling, piling, piling, piling on. And you feel like you've been put in a position where you no longer have a choice.

43:59Well, I can see from certainly my perspective that you always had a choice. And even if I had been given a low paying job, and then you try to get another job and a better job, it just would have been a, well, I've never, never would have made it here. But it would have been a longer route to whatever we call success, to being able to be comfortable in your life. I mean, being taken out of school and not having an education would have just been the end of me. It would have been the end of me. And so the difference between picking yourself up and allowing it to be an open window to something else, I think depends on what happens and how it happens and who you're surrounded by.

44:43I will say that through all of this, I still was listening to that voice. I was saying to God, how did this happen to me? Why is this happening to me? What do I now need to do? And even when I was thinking about ending it all for myself, I didn't really want to end it. I didn't want to be in that kind of pain and suffering, you know, as I think a lot of people who attempt suicide, they don't want to die. You just want this to end. I want this pain to stop. I want this to be over. And so, you know, I feel that I have been guided by a divine force my whole life. There is just no other explanation for me, a black girl from rural Mississippi, to have been in the places that I've been and exposed to the things that I've been exposed to.

45:46in an era where I would have to say I didn't even think it was hard, Jay. I look back at, you know, my early career in Baltimore and my early career in Nashville and I was often the only Black person in the room and certainly the only woman in the room and the only other. But it didn't even occur to me that that was a problem because I thought, well, if I got the opportunity to be here, it means I'm supposed to be here. And so this is how it happened. I won a contest and I won a contest Because shortly after this pregnancy, I was one of the kids chosen to go to the White House for the White House Conference on Youth.

46:23I was speaking. I was an orator. I was doing all these things in school that gave me a higher profile. I was chosen by a local radio station to be in a contest for the Miss Fire Prevention Contest. I win that contest. I'm the first black girl ever to even be in the contest. Nobody ever. So this is 1970. and I win the contest and I'm shocked and so is everybody else shocked. How did I win? And I win the contest. Why? So all the girls are in this pageant and you're asked the question of what do you want to be and do with your life? I was going to be a teacher. Two other girls had used the teacher explanation.

47:09So they'd said teacher, somebody else had said teacher. I go, I've got to come up with something other than teacher. I was thinking, God help me, God help me, God help me. What could I be? What could I be? And I thought, the thought comes in my head, I'd seen Barbara Walters on the Today Show that morning. I passed the TV, the TV was on, and I saw Barbara Walters sitting there being Barbara Walters. And out of nowhere, this answer comes into my mind. And I say, I want to be a journalist, a broadcast journalist, and I want to use journalism to help stories, to tell stories so that people can see the best of themselves in these stories.

47:46I don't know. I pull that out of the ethers. Yeah, yeah, came down. And so I go back to the radio station to pick up my prize, which is Long Jean watch and a digital clock radio. One's a flip. And there's a DJ waiting in the corridor and he says, oh, you're that kid that just won that contest. He goes, have you ever heard your voice on tape? You want to come in my studio? You want to hear your voice on tape? And this DJ sits me down. His name was John Heidelberg. Sits me down, tears off some copy from the AP Wire machine. He said, here, read this, and I'm going to record your voice and let you play back and let you hear your voice.

48:29And I started reading like Barbara Walters. And that guy says, hey, Larry, come in here. Read, come in here. Hear this kid read. And before you know it, I was surrounded by five guys watching this kid read. Because I've been reading since my grandmother. And that's how I got my first job in radio.

48:56Jay Shetty:Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Hand to God. Yeah. Hand to God. But you can see it. Yeah. Yeah. But you're listening. But I'm listening. You're listening. You're tuned in. I'm tuned in. You're following it and you're ready. And I'm ready. You're ready because you walked into that room. You'd already had all these skills there. Yeah, that's what I say luck is. Luck is preparation, meeting the moment of opportunity. Because I could have been a kid stumbling through the thing and he just said, okay, here kid, here's your tape. Instead, I was a kid who read like I knew what I was doing. And he calls in everybody else to listen to me.

49:30and they say, would you like a job in radio? And I ended up working after school. I was 16. And then I get a call from the local television station when I was 18, in college still, saying, we are interested in hiring you for TV. And I'm like, well, I don't know if I can do TV because my dad, I had a 10 o 'clock curfew and my dad was like, you have to be home. But I'm doing the news and the news isn't on until 10 o 'clock. That's hilarious. That's so good. And so I had to have my professor, Mr. Cox, talk my dad into letting me have the job so I could be on the news. Because I had a 10 o 'clock curfew.

50:12My dad is like, I don't know how you're going to do that news. You've got to be home by 10 o 'clock. That's amazing. Isn't that amazing? That's amazing. And so from there, you know, everybody's trying to get to New York. I had the feeling, and I'm just saying to everybody, you know inside yourself. I had the feeling that New York wasn't for me. I had the feeling that LA wasn't for me. I had the feeling that Chicago was for me. And I was on... It's a feeling. There you go. It's a feeling.

50:44Jay Shetty:Not the trends, not the... Not the trends. Everybody's trying to get to New York because that's the number one market. It's the number one market. And LA is the number two market. And at the time, Chicago was the number three market. And I was on someone else's audition tape. And I get the call. I knew at the time that the call came that it was time to go. I could feel it. And everybody listening to us, you're working at a job right now. You're in a relationship right now. You feel already the whispers that it's time to move. And if you lean into that feeling and allow yourself to be open to it, you can manifest for yourself, I believe, what is the calling for your life.

51:29But you gotta be willing to respond to it. I mean, you know all this. No, no, no. You know all this because this is how you're sitting here on Netflix.

51:37Jay Shetty:It's so reassuring and reaffirming. It's affirming because you've already done it and now you see it. I'm just mirroring it back to you. There's so much more confidence in hearing you say it too. There's so much more gravitas and wait for me to hear it from you. I'm telling you, it's the truth. You are the master of your fate. That thing that I had learned at seven, eight years old from Invictus, you are the captain of your soul. You are the one. You are also working with the greater forces of your life. And regardless of what you call it, what puts you here? What is the reason why you are here?

52:18That's what I'm trying to do right now. I mean, I went to the spear to see you two, okay?

52:23Jay Shetty:Oh, you were at that legendary, iconic moment. I was at that legendary, iconic moment. Were you there? It was all over our feeds. No, no, I wasn't there. I just watched it on the feed. Like it was all on my TikTok and Instagram. Oh my God, that was a night. It was a night. At the end of the U2 concert where we've been screaming, it's a beautiful night. I went to the edge of the seating and I couldn't tell what had just happened because it all disappeared. And I couldn't tell, was that the sun? Were we outside? What just happened? And I just stood there. And I tell you, Jay, I had that feeling again.

53:03I thought, this was fantastic what I just experienced. But this fear could be a tool for taking people to the edge of the universe. and you could have the most fantastical experience of meditation and consolation with yourself. I just thought, wow, what an incredible tool, what an incredible instrument for creation and allowing people to have a multi-sensory experience. So I went back and I called my friend Jennifer Rudolph Walsh and I said, But Jennifer, I was just that spirit thing and it was unbelievable. And I think you could do something really, really fantastical there that would allow people to touch the inner parts of themselves in a way that they never have.

53:59But I just let it go. And Jennifer says, well, you should do that. You should get this person and this person. I'm saying it's not about the people as much as it is about the experience. How do we create an experience that immerses people in awareness of why you've come to the planet? I want to remind people of why you're here. Why are you here? Just give me chills. Why did you come? What is your mission? And are you on mission or are you off course? How do we get you back on course and ignite the light of your life in such a way that you see the highest possibility for yourself and your connection to the rest of the world, the wholeness of everything, and that you leave fired up, inspired from the inside out?

54:53How do you do that?

54:54Jay Shetty:You tell us. I'm in. Okay, so I'm doing it. I wanted to wait. So you have this experience that you do. You feel this. Yeah. You can visualize it. You almost see it. I can see it. And today you're actually going to tell us what this is. I want to know. Now I'm doing it. I'm actually doing it. So we're calling it aha, aha, aha moments of awe, hope, and aliveness. Oh my gosh. Are you kidding me? That's amazing. Aha. That's beautiful. And the reason it's aha is because in all those days where we're talking about aha moments, on the Oprah show. I just love it every time anybody have an aha moment. An aha isn't me telling you something.

55:37An aha is you remembering what you already knew. Yes, reawakening something you've forgotten. It's reawakening what you've always known. I was thinking about, everybody's like, you're not speaking up about politics and you're not doing this and you should be saying this and you should be doing this and other things. It's hard to be heard in a world where there's so much noise. How do I get people to come back to the stillness of themselves and the stillness of what we know is the source of all things and reconnect to that thing and ignite that within themselves so that you go out in the world and you show your light and your grace in ways that lift the world up?

56:24How do I get people to do that in a way that they actually see the rising of their life? You see your connection to nature and their trees and the, you know, the divine, all of it. And you were able to do that in a way that makes you feel lighter and better. So that's what we're going to do.

56:44Jay Shetty:That's beautiful. And so we can, people can buy tickets, They can come. You can buy tickets. You can come April 2nd, 3rd, 4th. We're turning Sin City into Soul City. I love that. So 20 ,000 people, roughly? Yeah, yeah. 18 ,000 people. 18 ,000. People per show. And three shows. Four shows. Four shows. Yeah, two shows on Sunday. I want to come. Well, you must come. I would love to be there. You must be there. It just fell into place with all of these great creators. Ethan Toadman, who did the Heiress tour for Taylor. Ez Devlin, who did Gaga's tour, who did Beyonce's tour. creating these incredible sets and experiences.

57:21So it's visual, it's sonic, it's atmospheric. So we're using all the tools of the sphere to allow people to immerse themselves in this experience of music, of dance, of meditation, and singing. And you know, Jacob Collier, do you know Jacob Collier? Yes, of course. Obviously, they're going to be performers, but the audience is its own performance. Yeah, wow. So we have Jacob Collier with the audience being its own performer.

57:55Jay Shetty:That's beautiful. I mean, I saw The Wizard of Oz there last year. Yeah. And that was unbelievable. But I can't imagine meditating in that space. I can't imagine dancing in that space. I can't imagine experiencing the presence in that space. That's why I went to see the monks. I told you I went to the monastery recently and I went to visit the monks to see what that experience would be like. And then imagine that experience meditating with your own, creating a sound bath with 160 ,000 speakers. Okay. Not to mention Max Richter, one of the world's great composers who is sonically designing the entire experience from the time you walk in.

58:37Jay Shetty:That feels like the most iconic, historic, monumental event of this type experience ever. Uh-huh. Ever, yeah. I can't think of anything better. You know what I feel like it is? I feel like it's my offering to the world at this time. Right now. I felt like the world needs to feel its own heart beating. and each of us to feel that in such a singular, powerful way that we know that regardless of the chaos and the confusion and all the drama, drama, drama, noise, noise, noise, that there is a reason why you are here. And the aha experience that we're creating at the Spear is to cause a remembering, is to cause people to remember.

59:21Jay Shetty:This episode is brought to you by Ultra. Making space for ourselves matters. having time and room to try new things. Our feet benefit from more space too. That's why ultra running shoes feature ultra fit design, giving toes more room for comfort and balance, helping feet feel stronger. These aren't just running shoes. They're perfect for walking, hiking, any pace, any level. They feel right from the first step. Go to ultrarunning.com forward slash on purpose and use code purpose 10 for 10 % off. That's altrarunning.com forward slash on purpose. Stay out there. You brought this up earlier and this experience that you're designing is doing exactly that.

1:00:04Jay Shetty:We were saying there's so much noise and it's almost like the only thing that breaks through the noise is an aha moment. Yeah. It's an aha moment. You're absolutely right. Yeah. That's the only thing. The only thing. Yeah. When, when we all have that moment where you sign, you know, you have that awe-inspiring moment. That's the only thing that breaks through noise. And so you're actually giving us the opportunity. Listen, I put together this wonderful creative team. And what's been important to me is that everybody that comes along comes in without ego, with full collaboration, with the desire that we're all working towards one thing.

1:00:44This is our gift, our offering to the world. Yes, you're going to pay for the ticket, but it's a way of saying, peace be with you to the world.

1:00:53Jay Shetty:So needed right now. I mean, I was going to ask you that as you've had this, your own aha to put on the event and the experience. When you see the noise, what do you do? And what do you encourage others to do in the noise? Listen, stillness speaks to me. And I protect myself from all of the craziness, really. I mean, you can do or say anything and all of a sudden you're getting vitriol from all the thing and people are slamming you and all of that. And I have learned to just insulate myself from the chaos and the noise of the world by practicing stillness for myself in such a way that I feel. That I can still hear the voice of God and not be drowned out by the noise of the world.

1:01:43That's what I do. And so I have limited myself on the amount of news that I take in. I used to just be in it every day and I just like it was a regular thing. I don't do that anymore. If there's nothing I can do about it, I will take it in so at least I'm aware of what's happening in the world, but I don't let myself get into the, what are we going to do?

1:02:03Jay Shetty:Yeah, and it's interesting, isn't it, that we get really comfortable in that space. Exactly. People get comfortable in the space and you just get mired down in it. And so I was thinking, you know, my whole career trajectory, since I was able to make decisions for myself about the show and not be dictated by my bosses, but since I took ownership of the show, my whole goal has been to bring light into people's lives. And I remember when I made the decision to purposely, on purpose, operate the show with intention. I had read Gary Zukov's book in 1989 called Seat of the Soul. And in that book, he speaks of intention being one with cause and effect.

1:02:51That became my religion. Say that again, because that is so beautiful. intention is at one with cause and effect. You cannot participate in the cause without experiencing the effect of the intention. So the intention is what's going to drive everything. And so when I first got that principle in 1989, I mean, I got it, got it, got it, got it, and started practicing it with every guest, just like you before your show, you're the only person ever done this other than myself is before the show you asked me what my intention was I started doing that in 1989 wow and the very first show I did it a woman had uh lost her daughter had been murdered by um her 18 year old boyfriend 16 year old daughter and I went into the green room and I said so what is your intention in being here and she said I'm here because your producers asked me to be here.

1:03:53And I said, but why did you say yes? What is the reason why? And she said, I said yes, because I wanted to talk about my daughter's life and everybody else wants to talk about her death, but she had a life. She was loved by her siblings. She was loved by her parents. We loved her. Her grandparents loved her. She was loved. But all people want to talk about is how did it happen? and why didn't I see it and talk about the murder? And I said, well, I'm going to exploit your daughter's life to the point where people can see their daughter and your daughter. That's my intention. My intention is that every story I ask you about your daughter, I'm not trying to be a voyeur.

1:04:38I'm trying to get you to tell a story so every person in that audience say, oh, my daughter did that. My daughter was like that. Because people think it can't happen to their daughter. But you know it can. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to exalt and elevate your daughter's life so her death would not have been in vain. That's my intention. So I will make sure you get your intention. And that changed the way I did every show.

1:05:05Jay Shetty:When you look at your career, it's trailblazing because it's always ahead of the game. You were talking about things when people didn't even know they wanted to hear about them because you're talking about fertility. You're talking about grief. You're talking about loss. You're talking about rape and abuse. I remember we were talking about alcoholism and people were like, no, just put the bottle down. There's no such thing as alcoholism. It can't be a disease. I mean, yeah. How did you get the world to care about the things that actually matter? I think that people developed a sense of knowing that my intention was a pure intention.

1:05:44Yes. That I was on the journey with them. You know, I have always said that I am just a surrogate viewer. I get to ask the questions that you all would want to, but I just have the microphone. And I think the people could feel for me that, wow, I was in the midst of my own discovery. You know, all of these spiritual learnings and spiritual practices, remembering your spirits. I was learning that, too. So when I first learned that intention worked, I now want to share it with everybody. Hey, y 'all, look at this. This principle actually is working in my life. I believe it can work for you, too.

1:06:18And that has been my philosophy since I was a little girl on that dirt road in Mississippi. I'd get a candy bar. I'd hold on to it. I'd hold on to it. It would melt in my pocket. The peanuts would be falling out of the payday bar until my cousins came from down the road and I could say, Monson, isn't this good? Because I believe life is better when you are able to share it and experience it. That's why whether it's the experience at the sphere that we're doing or whether it's an idea or a book, you know, the whole book club started because I love books. One of my producers loved books. And she said, why don't we just do this with the whole audience?

1:06:59And I go, well, how are we going to get the audience to read a book? And she said, well, you're going to tell them to read the book. And then you're going to come back and talk about the book. I was like, you think we could tell people just to read a book? And it did. You did it. Now we're 30 years later. We're 30 years later.

1:07:15Jay Shetty:I know you know this, but it's important to say, I hope you know just what an incredible service you've done to the billions of people on the planet that have been affected by you. Thank you for that. And the millions of people like me that you've impacted in order for us to do our mission and perform our service and operate from that. But you know what we do? We sit around in the room. It used to be, you know, started out with five of us and 12 of us and, you know, ended up being 580 of us. But we'd sit around the room and say, okay, what's going on in your life and what's happening at the beauty shop?

1:07:46When you go to there, what are people talking? It's about talking about, and even now, same thing you're doing on your podcast. Talking about what is...

1:07:55Jay Shetty:Everyone talking about. Yes. What is stirring the souls of people. Yeah, what's coming up at the kitchen table? What's coming up at the grocery store? What's coming up at the barbershop? What are people talking about? Yeah. You know, one of the most popular podcasts I've done was this idea of no contact with families. Yes. Which is huge for people. And in the era I was coming up with, when I was, when we were telling this to Gale, Gale goes, I didn't even know that was allowed. I love that. Gail's the best. That's amazing. I didn't know that was allowed. I didn't even know you were allowed not to speak to your parents.

1:08:28That's amazing. Yeah, that started a whole movement.

1:08:31Jay Shetty:There was a whole conversation. Whole thing around that. But I think so much of what our shows were built on is like what is resonating in the hearts and minds of people who are watching. What do they want to know? But here's the big secret, okay? About 10 years in, I had a doctor's appointment and couldn't do the two shows a day. I was doing two shows a day. And I realized I couldn't shake hands with the... I would shake hands and do autographs. I would do 350 autographs after every show. After every show, twice. So 700. I would be sitting there, autograph. And I would just never look up. I was just signing, what's your name?

1:09:12What's your name? What's your name? And then this day I had a doctor's appointment, I came back and I had so much energy. I went, wow. I did not realize how draining that is just to do that for an hour and a half. Absolutely. And so I asked myself the most important question, what do I want? I thought, I really don't like doing autographs, but what would I really want to do? I would want to sit and talk to people about where they come from and why they came. And you brought your sister-in-law, you came with your cousin. Oh, your mother and your, You got your husband to come. Oh, my God. So I started doing that about 10 years in.

1:09:49And the show lifted. It just lifted because all of our ideas were coming from what people were telling us was going on in their lives. So we just started listening. What I heard, Jay, I heard women say over and over in one form or another, I did this right. I married right. I did the things. I have the kids. But I feel like there's something more. There's something missing. There's something more. There's something missing. And I said to my team, you know, that's a thing. People keep saying it in one form or another. I did this right. I still feel like, huh? I don't know. What else is there for me?

1:10:30I go, what they're missing is the thing within. What they're missing is the connection to spirit. How do we get people to see that for themselves. Even amidst the ridicule of Oprah's trying to start her own church and Oprah's trying to do... We started because I was there. I was looking for that for myself.

1:10:49Jay Shetty:Yeah. And I know that if I feel it, got to be a million other people who are also feeling the same thing about there's got to be something more. There's something deeper. There's something more profound than just going to work every day and, you know, shuffling along. Oprah, we created a couple of games for you that we wanted to play with you. This is called interviewer on interviewer because I'm interviewing the interviewer. So this question is, what interview of yours were you most nervous for? The most nervous I've ever, ever been was Diana Ross, my very first time interviewing Diana Ross. Because?

1:11:26Because I was a little black girl with the hairbrush watching the Supremes on the Ed Sullivan show. I was there the first night that they came on. Diana Ross was the first time I'd ever seen a black woman who was beautiful on television. And I just thought, there's a beautiful poem by Nikki Giovanni that says, she went to school in Sunday school and heard about Nebuchadnezzar, who was king of the Jews. She heard about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fire. And then she heard of Sheba. And she said, I want to be like that. Well, when I saw Diana Ross and the Supremes on the Ed Sullivan show for the first time, I thought, I want to be like that.

1:12:11And it was just, imagine you living in a world where nobody looks like you. Nothing reflected in the world looks like you. remember that famous concert maybe you're not old enough to remember but she had a famous concert in central park where it rained and the water was dripping down her hair and she was wearing diamond earrings and those great big diana ross eyes and her mascara did not run that was like 70 something because i remember calling i was working in the newsroom and i called at the credits her production company the next day and I asked them, what was the mascara Diana Ross was wearing?

1:12:51Because it didn't run. Because it didn't run. That's so good. Lancome waterproof, they told me. And how many carats were those diamond earrings? And they told me 10 carats. So for years my whole goal was to get 10 carat diamond earrings. Did you get them? I got them. Like Diana Ross. So the night before Diana Ross comes on the show I go to my home and I cry myself out, Jay. I sit in the bathtub and I cry until I released every kind of emotion, like pretend she's here and you're speaking to her and now you said this and now you said that. And I just start bawling crying so that I would not make a fool of myself the next day with Diana Ross.

1:13:36And I still cry, but I didn't go into ugly cry. I got my ugly cry out in the tub the night before so that I would not ugly cry. So that's the answer to that. Diana Ross.

1:13:45Jay Shetty:Which interview deeply impacted you the most? A little boy, a little freckle-faced boy, whose name I don't remember, but he looked like Opie Taylor from The Andy Griffith Show. He was about seven or eight years old, and it was a show on children of divorce. And I remember him saying he tried to get his mother to stay. He says, I bought her a wing. I bought her a wing. And she still didn't stay. And that sadness, he started crying. and sense of rejection that that little boy felt. Still, I remember because it had never occurred to me that divorce impacted children so strongly. And on that same show, we did adult children of divorce.

1:14:32And there are people 40 and 50 years old who still were never told why their parents divorced. And so the shows where I had my own aha moment where I'm like, ah, I never thought of it that way before. And another show we did with a woman whose daughter had been murdered, and she had said she was going to go home and try and kill herself afterwards because she said my last thing was going to be doing the Oprah show, and then I was going to go home and kill myself. And her daughter had been dead for some time. She still hadn't changed the room. And the expert on that show said to her, Why don't you start celebrating your daughter's life instead of your daughter's death?

1:15:16And she said, I never thought of it that way before. Wow.

1:15:19Jay Shetty:Yeah. So she was inspired by someone else. She was inspired by someone else. That's unbelievable. So I'm inspired by those shows where the reason why we're calling the show at the sphere the aha, because there's nothing more exciting to me than an aha moment. Yeah, I agree. I agree. There's nothing more exciting. Because you never forget those moments. You never forget it. You'll never, ever forget it. And you'll know exactly where you were. thousands and thousands and thousands of imprints people left on my heart. I am a fuller, more wiser, more humanly expanded being because of my encounters with thousands and thousands of people sharing their stories.

1:16:03And, you know, it has humbled me and allowed me to see the thing that we obviously both know, but allowed me to feel it in my bones and my guts and my spirit. We are, as Angela always said, more alike than we're different. And I could see the threads. I mean, there's really only like six or seven different stories and just different. We tell ourselves. Yes.

1:16:25Jay Shetty:Yeah. No, what I'm hearing you say though, is that we don't hear people's stories enough. What I'm hearing from you as a life lived, listening to, sharing, spotlighting people's stories. I have paid attention. I am not just sitting up there talking. I have literally paid attention. One of the things Maya Angelou used to say to me, girl, one of the reasons God has blessed you so much is because you're obedient. I have been, I will say, blessed in my life because I'm obedient to the call of my life. And I would say to anybody who's watching or listening right now, if things feel out of order, it's because you're not paying attention to the true call.

1:17:10You might be paying attention to what is in your head you think you want, but why are you here is the most important question you can ask yourself. And are you about the business of why you are here, or are you about somebody else's business, or are you about your idea of what your business should be. But why are you here? That's really what our whole sphere event is about, causing people to deeply research that question for themselves. Zoukov says this in Seed of the Soul, that when the personality comes to serve the energy of the soul, its personality aligns with the energy of the soul. That is authentic empowerment.

1:18:06And that's the only way you can get it. You can only get it when you're using your personality to serve something that's bigger than yourself. And when you combine your personality with the real reason why you have been called to the planet Earth, nobody can stop you. There's nobody like you. There's nobody who's in the vibrational force field. Nobody can stop you. You just become your own phenomenon because you have done the thing that you came to do. And that's what I'm all about, is trying to keep myself on the course of why I really came. And did you know this story? The miracle of my life is that my parents never married and they were only together one time.

1:18:59I was an afternoon delight on the way home from school. I was a mistake. I was born out of wedlock. I was a bastard child. I was all those things. It was one try. A miracle. Yeah. But so is everybody.

1:19:20Jay Shetty:Yeah. So is everybody. I mean, Alan Lightman just wrote this wonderful article in The Atlantic talking about the impossibility of each of us being born. Like the one sperm hitting that egg in that moment makes you. And he was saying in that article that if you put a ruler from here to Pluto, the possibility of you being born as you is just like a tiny little fragment of an inch of that ruler. And so - We're all so rare. We're all so rare. And so getting people to understand that for themselves is really what my journey has been about. and now my big offering is about. It's the culmination of getting people to see it.

1:20:01And I've done it, you know, for years on my show, but now to be able to have this master class of music and musicians and composers and artists all coming together with this offering of AHA.

1:20:14Jay Shetty:I can't even believe to imagine the level of AHA moments people are going to have in that space. I can't either. It's like... It makes my heart rejoice. Yeah, to have the full 360 degree sensory experience and to be with 17 ,999 other people to do it together. I mean, that's going to reverberate for decades afterwards in people's lives. I hope so. Like truly. And even if it just reverberates for the people, it will reverberate because what happens to you, then you push out into the world. But, you know, one of the greatest, most peaceful, resolving lessons that I got from my teacher, Maya Angelou, was this lesson about legacy.

1:20:58And when I come back from doing my school, opening my school in 2007, I went to her house and I said, Maya, oh my gosh, I wish she could have been there. because she had the flu and she could come. And I said, because it's going to be, this school is just going to be my greatest legacy. And she said, you have no idea what your legacy is going to be because your legacy isn't your name on a building. It's not buildings. I said, no, it's not buildings, Maya. It's going to be the girls. They're going to be the girls. She said, I said, you have no idea because it's not just the girls. It's actually every show you've ever done.

1:21:33It's every person you've ever met. It's every life you've ever touched. So your legacy, she said, is not one thing, Jay. She said your legacy is every life you touch. So I feel like you having this platform to speak to people, you have no idea how many people hear something that you say, something that I say, something that all of your guests say, and how that reaches out into the world in such a way. They are moved. And for every person who is moved, who is inspired, who is encouraged, who's given some hope, that's your legacy. That's your legacy. It's not the books. It's not the things. It's not the appearances.

1:22:23It's not the things. It's every life you touch. And that is true for you and for everyone who's watching and listening to us. It's the work that you do and the kindnesses that you offer into the world and the unkindnesses, you know? Yeah. That thing that Maya also says is that people may forget what you did or what you said. They never forget the way you make them feel. So thank you for doing that so beautifully. Thank you. You doing that so beautifully. Thank you. On purpose.

1:22:54Jay Shetty:Now I have that in your words. My life is perfect. Now I have that in your voice. On purpose. My life is perfect. With Jay Shetty. Now that's going to be on every... Spotify is going to use that everywhere. What does it feel like for you to have reached this pinnacle? Because this is definitely a pinnacle moment for you. And what does it actually feel like? I feel like I'm at the beginning of where I've not even imagined being. So I feel like I'm at the beginning. It feels like a new responsibility, a new chapter of personal growth and offering of service, and a new opportunity to raise our standards and levels and our ability to give more, to serve more, to really live with a greater sense of purpose.

1:23:44Jay Shetty:and to say, this is our moment and opportunity to really push the boundaries on how we can help others and serve others. That's what this has given us. Well, I just love the fact that you've used the word serve and service multiple times because that is the key, you know. It's everything. It's everything. And I say to anybody who is stuck in life right now or not knowing where to go or feeling a sense of confusion, that if you switch the paradigm of whatever it is you're doing to ask the question, how do I use who I am and what I'm doing in service to something bigger than myself, the answer to that will lift you out of whatever it is you're being stuck, won't it?

1:24:33Jay Shetty:Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. When I met the monks, there were two things that appealed to me about them. The first was the mastery of emotions and the mind. And the second was their dedication to service. And half the day was spent in silence and stillness. And the other half was spent in service and offering. And that's what moved me because I thought, well, that's life, isn't it? Taking care of your own mind and body and spirit and then being of service to others, using all of that. It was so simple and it made so much sense to me that to simply use your skills, talents, and gifts in the service of others, there's no greater thing.

1:25:09Jay Shetty:There is no greater thing. And also no greater fulfillment for people. And everything can be used. Every talent, every gift, whatever you have. I think sometimes people feel like, oh, but I'm not a speaker or I'm not a singer or whatever it may be. And it's like, no, you could be an accountant, a lawyer. And also one of the things I've learned too, You probably figured this out, too, that the thing that causes people to really experience the deepest sense of awe is when they see moral beauty, when they see someone in service to someone else and they didn't have to be. Yes. You know, you see those guys and women handing, you know, one bag to the other in a flood or hurricane and they're out there helping their neighbors and it warms your heart because, you know, that could be you.

1:25:54And yeah, I mean, it's those acts of moral beauty and service that really cause us to feel.

1:26:00Jay Shetty:Yeah. You're reminding me of this beautiful statement from Emerson where he said, plant trees under whose shade you do not plan to sit. Yeah. And I love that. That is my philosophy. Yeah, I fully agree. It's like, that's the greatest. Come to my house and you will see all the trees I've planted under whose shade I will not sit. Eventually, you know, they're going to grow. I've done like tree tunnels that, yeah, like 20 years from now, when I'm no longer here, they will be flourishing. But that's what you do. Yes, I believe that. Well, we hope you're here 20 years from now. Okay, well, yeah, 20 and I'll be 90.

1:26:33We love it. We love it.

1:26:35Jay Shetty:No one will have better energy. Oprah, we end every interview with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence. So Oprah Winfrey, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received. Best advice I ever heard was from Maya Angelou, who said, baby, when people show you who they are, you need to believe them the first time. Your problem is, takes you about 29 times, and they're still showing you the same thing. So when people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Second question is, if you could save every couple one unnecessary argument, what would you tell them?

1:27:19Jay Shetty:Mirror back to the person your validation for what you've heard. Because my greatest lesson coming from The Oprah Show was that all of us are looking to be seen, to be heard, and to know that we matter. And if you can let a person in the midst of when the argument starts or the discussion gets heated. You mirror back to them, I hear you. What you're saying to me is you want me to do blank, blank, blank. I hear that. I don't think I can do it. Or I do think I could do it. Or I think I can do it in this time. But mirroring back to the person and validating that they are being heard, you do see them, and what they're saying actually matters to you, whether you can do it or not.

1:28:10If you can do that, you can end a lot of arguments because that's what everybody is looking for.

1:28:14Jay Shetty:Yeah. So true. Yeah. They're just looking to know. But you're not hearing me. You're not hearing me. You're not listening to me. You say, yeah, I'm listening to you. This is what you're saying. Yeah. And then you mirror it back. You're saying that and now I'm saying this. Can you hear that? Question number three. If you had to choose a life of only certainty or only curiosity, which one would you choose and why? Curiosity. Yeah. One of my favorite sayings is happiness is having something to look forward to. And reason you're looking forward to it is because you're curious about how it's going to fulfill itself.

1:28:51And so I love the idea of being curious. If I had already known this was going to happen, how do you continue with the same amount of vigor and determination and all that? I think it's the curiosity that allows for the adventure. Mm-hmm. Otherwise, it's just like, let me sit back and wait on that plane to come.

1:29:14Jay Shetty:It's funny, though, because we live in opposite sometimes. Yes. We live wishing everything we're certain. We're certain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That it's true. If you actually only had a life of certainty. Then what is there to aspire to? Absolutely. There'd be no movement. Yeah. Question number four. What's more difficult, forgiving yourself or forgiving someone else? Definitely forgiving myself. I can forgive other people. Best definition I ever heard for forgiveness also came from the show. Giving up the hope that the past could be any different. Give up the hope that the past could be any different.

1:29:51So, so many people are still stuck because they're hoping, wishing, in denial about, and aggravated because it happened the way it happened. Give up the hope that it could be any different and get to acceptance. Forgiveness really is allowing yourself to move forward. you forgive not for the other person you forgive for yourself so that you are not stuck holding

1:30:20Jay Shetty:on to the thing yeah so good isn't that a good one good we need a book of oprah isms from the show where it defines every word yeah like almost like a glossary of like you know like an index oh well that's a lot because you have some beautiful definitions yeah talking about definitions of intention forgiveness yeah but i have learned so much i was paying i mean i feel like I do sit in a wise seat right now that I have earned because I was paying attention. I wasn't just doing a show. I was paying attention. I was listening, listening, listening, listening with my inner heart and inner ear and discernment with a sense of discernment, which I think is what's missing from the world is people don't have discernment.

1:31:06So I learned through the show and determining, oh, is this person telling the truth? Is this person now just trying to make up something? You know, a great sense of discernment. And that's been really very helpful to me.

1:31:19Jay Shetty:Yes, absolutely. Fifth and final question. What's the aha moment that you want the world to have right now? That you are the light you seek. You're the one you've been waiting for. It's right there. It's within you. It's within you. Inside you, yeah. It's within you because you come from the greater source and there is no disconnection unless you refuse to see the connection. And so the light is within that you're seeking. And we're going to show it to you with a spin! Absolutely. Tell us the dates again, please. April 2nd. April 2nd. 3rd. 4th. Get your tickets now. Ignite the light. I love it.

1:31:57This has been delightful. We have to do it in real time, though. I would love to. And you have to come sit under the trees. I would love to. Anytime. I have got some trees. Anytime.

1:32:05Jay Shetty:I've got some trees. I would love that. And I would love to do this again, online, offline. Online, offline. I mean, really, we could talk. We got some stories. I could talk to you for three more hours. I'm just being respectful of your time. I'm like, I could go on and on. Thank you for giving me all this time sitting up here on Netflix. No, this is amazing. It's great. This was a joy to my heart. And you're right. It is just the beginning. It is just the beginning, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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1:33:32Jay Shetty:Our relationship too. Our relationship too. Really special way. But yeah, thank you. Thank you. Hopefully you're the best. Thank you.