Paris Hilton ON: How to Stop Shame from Controlling Your Life & Turning Pain into Purpose

28:12On the flip side, you have a beautiful relationship with your grandma. Like that comes across in the book. So like strongly and beautifully. And when you speak about her, I feel like it just comes out the page and it's beaming and like your, your appreciation and your admiration for her is just this amazing thing. What would you say is a lesson that you think has stayed with you that she taught you that is like, that you still carry with you every day? Like, what would you say that would be if you had to pick one? She was just a force of nature. Like, would just walk in a room and light it up and always made me feel so confident.

28:48And I remember when I was a little girl, she told me that she went to a psychic and the psychic said, one day your granddaughter is going to be one of the most famous and most photographed women in the world. and she said, I know that's going to happen one day, and I just want you to always remain the same sweet, down-to-earth girl that you are with such a big heart and so kind and never let that get to your head. And that was something that I always kept close to my heart, and nothing ever changed no matter what happened in my life. I always remain the same sweet person. And I think that's so important, to be kind, and that's something that she really instilled in me my whole life.

29:31I mean that that sounds like a great thing everyone should tell their kids like I love all of that because it's almost like I believe in you I know you're going to be successful but don't forget where you came from who you are and how you treat people like that's what's what's foundational and really important and yeah it's it's we all need that figure in our lives like whether it's a grandparent or uncle or aunt a friend who reminds us of who we need to continue to be because it's so easy to get distracted but But what I think is really interesting is how you kept that mindset when, so you go, and I know you don't like calling it a school, and I agree from your description of the CEDU, right?

30:11CEDU. CEDU, yeah. Yeah, one of them, Provo Canyon School. Yeah. Cascade and Ascent. Yeah, so like looking at all of these facilities, even when they're taking you there, it almost feels like you're being kidnapped. Yes. You have handcuffs walking through an airport when you're not a convict or, you know, you haven't done something illegal. And then it's even like when they explain it, they're like, we're going to this place to fix you. And your reaction is that there's nothing wrong to fix. Like, what are you fixing? What I'm fascinated was like, how did you hold on to the idea that there was nothing to fix when everything around you is programming you to believe that you're broken, you're wrong, and you're needing fixing.

31:01Like, how do you not take that all in? I knew that I didn't deserve to be there. And, you know, I wasn't a bad kid. I live a very strict life, very sheltered. Then I moved to New York City, started sneaking out, getting bad grades. And my parents talked to a therapist who recommended that I go to these emotional growth boarding schools. And they had no idea. They just thought it was a normal boarding school. And the way they take kids to these places is they have two men come into a room in the middle of the night and say, do you want to go the easy way or the hard way? And literally hold up handcuffs.

31:44And this is how children are brought to these places. And it's extremely traumatizing. That's something I had severe nightmares for two decades. It wasn't until my documentary and all the advocacy work that I've been doing that those nightmares have finally went away. But for me, I just always thought to myself, I know that I'm a good person. I don't deserve to be in here. and that was the only thing that kept me going was who I was going to become and what I wanted to be when I got out of there. Did you see other people break down? Did you see other people around you? Because I find that to be one of the hardest things where if you're being told you're broken, if you're being told you're wrong, if you're being told you're wrong and letting your parents down.

32:39And by the way, you're doing very normal things at this point. Like there's like, you know, like I think sneaking out, you know, getting, getting bad grades, getting in trouble is actually pretty normal for any teenage kid. And I had attention deficit disorder, which no one knew because no one was talking about that either. Yeah. So that's the reason I couldn't pay attention in school and was getting bad grades and no one knew why. They just thought that I was purposely trying to not pay attention, but I just really couldn't focus. Yeah. Yeah. And it's incredible to think that, and this, I think this is what's coming out so much today where people who weren't able to focus at school because of ADHD or, or, or other challenges that they have are doing phenomenally well in business and in life.

33:21And it's like, you start to recognize that there isn't this correlation between it. It's not like, oh, if you did got good grades, you had a great career or great profession. It could very well be the opposite. it. How do you find you've been able to, what's different about business than school, I guess, that you've been so passionate about and been so prolific at that you feel is different about how you approach school? I feel like my ADHD, I consider it my superpower. And I think that's why in business and everything that I've done, I've always been very future thinking and thinking outside of the box and being a risk taker and someone who is an innovator and pioneer.

34:06And I really attribute that to my superpower of ADHD. Yeah. But how do you, how do you, I guess, not, how does not always being able to force yourself to focus actually become a superpower in business like that? How does that work? thinking in a different way. And with ADHD, my doctor, Dr. Halleroy says that it's like having the brain of like a Ferrari with bicycle brakes. So you're kind of just always moving really fast and thinking really fast. And I think that's why in business I've done so many things first, because I just, I don't know, just took a risk and I'm impulsive. yeah and that's interesting isn't it because it's almost like in school everything has to have a process and a method and a approach whereas sometimes in business actually trying something out and being impulsive or making an intuitive decision can actually work out whereas being intuitive school is not valued at all yeah I think I just found it to be boring besides I loved art class music class but math was not my favorite.

35:18Yeah. Yeah. My favorite subjects at school were art and design, philosophy. And I was, I enjoyed economics because of how it was taught, but art and design and philosophy were by far my favorite subjects at school. And it's really interesting because when I was at school, all I'd ever hear is, Jay, those are dumb subjects to focus on. Don't focus on those subjects. They're not going to get you a job. And now when I look at my life, I feel like my entire life is art and design philosophy and economics like that's that's literally it and so it's interesting how we all have strengths that that we miss out on i wanted to roll back a few years because the experience that you describe about meeting the guy in the mall and then it's almost like you go through this experience and you wake up there you wake up and you're like you know what's happened but again it's another moment where you don't want to tell anyone about what's happened.

36:13And I just feel every time I was reading your book and I read these points, it was like a punch in the gut for me. I was just like, I can't believe it. That something keeps happening that is not something that you're inviting or encouraging. And it's someone taking advantage. It's someone going far beyond any point of consent. And again, you're having to hold onto it. Can you walk us through that and just talk again about what it feels like to have to hold onto something the second time around, especially when this is like from your first kiss to your first sexual experience. How does that keep accelerating internally?

36:50Like what's going on internally? That was another thing in my book that I had never told anyone. Like after that happened, And I never said it out loud again and just tried to forget it. And my friend and I were at the mall when I was 15 and a half. Yeah. And we had met these two older guys that we had seen like every weekend there. And they got our numbers and invited us over. And I had never drank alcohol in my life before. And he had these wine berry coolers, these wine coolers, and kept telling me to drink it and pressuring me, and I kept saying no, and then I was like, it's open, just do it.

37:35So I had a couple sips, and then I was roofied and knocked out and woke up with him on top of me and whispering, you're dreaming, you're dreaming. And that was just terrifying to go through, and something that I felt ashamed for when, again, that was not my fault. This was someone who took advantage of a young girl. And how did it feel like a second time thinking, I can't tell anyone again? I guess my question is, with shame and embarrassment keep cycling in this way, do you feel like you literally held on to that shame and embarrassment until the doc and the book? Like, would you say you've carried it for that long?

38:22and what does that feel like as it festers? It's extremely isolating. You just feel alone, just like that no one knows, but it's something that you're holding on to. And yeah, it was something that I held on to until I wrote it in my book because I know that has happened to so many other people. And ever since I've released my book, so many people have written me letters and contacted me on social media or met my book signings that have went through the same experience. And they were all thanking me for them not feeling alone and them being able to talk about it for the first time and hold the people accountable for what they did to them.

39:07And why do you think we do that? Why do you think we don't keep those people accountable, but we see it as our mistake or our, like, you know, you walk away thinking, oh, I'm such an idiot or I'm so stupid. but I shouldn't have done that. Like, why do you think that is? Why is it that we just reflect it back onto ourselves seeing as you've gone through things like that? I don't know why we do that. I wish I knew why. But I think when people can talk about things like this and it makes others feel safe to be able to talk about it as well. And that's something that I'm working on every day. Just all of this, this is like I've been healing, but there's so much there and I've now put it out to the whole world and it's just, it's been, um, hard just talking about it and just thinking about it.

40:02But again, I know it's important for others to hear. We're so quick to judge others. So when we hear about these things, if it's never happened to us, we always think, oh, but they could have avoided it. and then when it happens to you you reflect that judgment onto yourself and you think oh i could have avoided it and so it's almost like the more we judge others and we're quick to judge others we actually judge ourselves more and the more we judge ourselves more the more we are judging others and it kind of becomes this vicious cycle where we judge ourselves we self-sabotage we self-criticize then we judge others we criticize them we point fingers and it just keeps going around.

40:41And it's almost like if we gave ourselves more grace, we'd give others more grace. And if we gave others more grace, we'd give ourselves more grace. And I do think that when people tell their stories, like I can't relate or say I've gone through anything that you've gone through, but hearing your story, and I'm sure for the people who have been victims and have gone through these things, I'm hoping that it creates a sense of empathy and compassion and grace for everyone. because I think the reason we don't tell everyone is because we think that they somehow think it was our fault. They judge you.

41:15Yeah. And have you felt this time when you've opened up through your book, do you still feel that there's been judgment back? Because I know in the past when things have happened, there's been a sense of, like you've talked about before, like the idea of when you're seen as a sex symbol, it's like, you're like, I like the symbol part because that's like iconic. But it's like when people start labeling you, would you say that this time when you're sharing the book you felt that people have really received it well through the book as opposed to other ways or do you still find that there's still some judgment that's always going to be there the reaction to the book has just been incredible just overwhelming with so much love and support and just the things that people have said to me at the book signings and every single interview.

42:04And people are just, it just feels amazing to finally be understood and have people respect me and have empathy and kindness. And I feel because I had played a character for so long, people had no idea. And now they know that there's so much more to me. and that's been incredible. I haven't felt any negative energy at all. So that's just been the best feeling ever. That makes me so happy. I'm so happy to hear that, honestly. Congratulations. You deserve that and little Paris deserves that too. And I'm so happy to hear that because I think being understood is the hardest thing and especially being understood for the trauma that's unseen.

42:55Like everyone sees the page six or sees the front cover or sees whatever, but no one really, really sees the inner child that actually went through all of this because that's, that's the part of you that the character is covering. The character is not covering the truth. It's covering the inner child that's experiencing all of this and is not mature enough and not smart enough and not ready enough to endure so much suffering and so much pain. does your inner child feel safer now does it or how do you think about your inner child with the healing work that you're doing finally feel safe just with everything my husband is just so incredible having my little baby boy I just feel that my life is thank you complete finally I just feel that I've built a real life and I'm just so proud of everything that I've accomplished and And just reading my story, I'm a survivor and I'm a badass.

43:55I love that. That's, I mean, it's, you definitely are. You definitely are. It's, but, and you see it, you know, it's like, it's challenging because, you know, there's so many people that the media kind of naturally picks on in that way. And sometimes it's good for business and sometimes it makes sense for the character. and, but there's always more going on. And I feel like you and, you know, even someone who's your close friend, like Britney Spears as well, like have both had the kind of tabloid clickbait articles, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think you went to a wedding last year too.

44:31And you've stayed strong, even though sometimes the media pits you against each other or does that, how have you managed? Because I feel like there's something really interesting that's happened in culture. when you started influencing using that word from your book there was a lot of like even even for actors back in the day and musicians what i've heard is it was like well you can you are the only influencer and everyone else can't be if they come up then you're going to go down i had a lot of actors tell me that what they were told is you have to be the number one black actor and if you're friends with the other black actor then you can't be friends because people are going to choose one of you.

45:07And I feel like that happens in culture and race. It happens in careers. It happens in industries. How did you manage to keep a real friendship with Brittany during a time when all of this is happening to both of you at the same time? Like, how do you keep a genuine relationship at that level where you're both these huge tabloid targets? Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. If you're listening right now and feeling that pull to grow in your career or make a bigger impact, Walden is designed exactly for that. For over 50 years, they've helped working adults get the W with the knowledge, confidence and real skills to create meaningful change.

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46:26Head to waldenu.edu and take that first step. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by Chev. One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge or making a decision that brings you closer to a long-term goal, those moments of intention really matter. And when it comes to the choices we make with our money, that same mindset applies. I've learned that saving for the things that truly matter like your first home or a reliable car starts with small thoughtful decisions That's why I appreciate what State Farm is doing with their personal price plan It gives you the power to personalize your plan and create an affordable price that works for your life You can bundle your home and auto insurance in a way that supports your journey and your goals Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan.

47:30Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state, coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. For me, I guess we understand each other and she's one of the kindest, most down-to-earth people and is just so lovely. I think it's important when women support each other because we're all in this together. And I think the 2000s were definitely about trying to pit women against each other in the media. And they were so cruel to us and targeted us. And it was really difficult to have to deal with just the constant pressure from the media and people inventing stories and paparazzi chasing.

48:24and it was just really crazy time but it's important when then you can have friends around you that can understand that because they go through the similar experiences yeah i think i think that's the hardest part right like there's only like one percent of people who are having any given experience and that applies across the board and it's like if you're not friends with people who are going through the same thing and have the courage to open up to each other you can feel so alone. And it's amazing that you've been able to maintain that because it almost feels like as more rumors get told, you're more scared.

49:01Is that, would you say that's fair? Like, do you feel as more comes out about you, that's not true. You become more fearful, how people view you. I think in the book, you talk about one point, like you're like every room I go into, I know what people have seen or what they know. I guess my question is how has that stopped you from just closing off and hiding and actually going, well, no, I'm still going to be who I want to be. Because I can imagine that when you walk in already feeling like you have a big sign on your forehead, it's hard to walk into new places, but you keep doing it with business.

49:32You keep walking into boardrooms. You keep walking into new environments. Like how have you found that strength? Just from being in this business for so long. And also what I went through as a teenager at these schools just made me, I think prepared me for Hollywood in a way because I had just been through such abuse that literally I could take anything. You build a tough skin when you're constantly around this, for sure. The abuse in the schools was worse. Yes, so it definitely prepared me for anything. Are you still friends with anyone who went to the schools that you kind of stayed connected with and have they kind of found themselves again I reconnected with some of the people that I was there with.

50:18And it's just been amazing just to come together and tell our stories and just have made so much impact. And now I've changed laws in nine states and now going back to Washington, D.C. in two weeks to introduce our new bill to push for federal legislation. so it's just been really empowering just to meet with people that have been through the same thing as me and who knew me before all of this and now to really have used our voices and are now saving children's lives i'm i'm so glad that we're talking about this on on purpose because i feel like that is such a journey of pain into purpose and i think you said it in your book that actually when you started helping and doing this work and not just doing this work of trying to help the people who went there but trying to change laws so that people never end up there in the first place like that approach is when you actually started to feel like you were healing like when you're actually not just trying to heal yourself but when you're trying to help others that's when you really felt it can you walk us through how hard it is to try and push forward a new bill or change legislation in nine states like can you walk us through like just how technically challenging that is and and what you come up against because i don't think we always hear these announcements but i don't think people know what goes into that this is every day of my life i'm working i have rebecca melindro who's my head of impact um at 11 11 media and we are constantly speaking with senators, traveling, going and telling my story.

52:05I've been back and forth to DC and this is a multi-billion dollar industry. So there's the schools. Yes. There's thousands of these schools. There's hundreds of children that have died in these places. Just the reports we have abuse and people, there's no regulations. And, um, it's just a lot having to go in there and, and really push for this because people don't understand. They don't know what's happening behind closed doors. And since it's such a profitable industry, it's also difficult because there's so many people that are trying to fight us against it. But when I actually go there and speak to them face to face and they hear the stories of myself and the other survivors that I bring with me, that's when they understand what's happening.

52:57And when people know that that's happening, they can't just ignore it. So everyone that we've been speaking to, when they hear and we actually go there, that's when it really makes a difference. And And I think that's why we've been so impactful. What do you say to survivors or of the schools or even people that you've been through abuse? Like, what do you, what, how can a friend help someone, a friend in their life who's gone through some sort of abuse? Like, how do you be a good friend to that? Because I can imagine that a lot of people are listening right now going, I don't know what to say to my friends because I don't, I've never been through it.

53:39I don't know how to connect. Like what's helpful? I think it's just helpful to know that they can tell you and that you'll be there for them and not judge them and let them know it's not their fault. And just think of being able to talk about it and having a safe space where you can make them feel supported and just know that you're there for them and whatever they need. And what do you think like really creates that safe space? because I feel for so many people, we think we're so close to so many people, but you almost figure out that you're not. There's only a few people you can, and then you even named some of your closest friends who've kind of been through the same stuff.

54:21But like, what really defines a safe space for you? You know, what is, you've talked about the relationship that you have with Carter, your husband, and the space you have right now, but what has made it safer? Like what's actually created that environment differently now than you've ever had? because I have people around me that I can trust.

54:44And it's definitely about knowing that when you say something, that people are not going to go and repeat it. So that's something that I've just learned over the years, even before I would test people in my life and tell them some fake rumor and then just see if it would end up in page six or in the media. and that was a big test back in the day that I would do with people and a lot of people failed that test. And now I don't have anyone around me that I would even have to worry about that with and that's something that's really important to me is trust because trust and loyalty is priceless to me.

55:23That's such a great test. Yeah. That's such a great test. Yeah. If anyone's wondering if you have a real friend, tell them a fake rumor about yourself and see if it comes back to you. Exactly. that's like wow what was the fakest thing you ever said do you remember what was like a rumor that i don't even like the ones you push the boundaries on i don't even remember maybe just like oh there was like a guy or something like i have no idea just something stupid and then it would end up and i would be like oh man how does it feel because at one point in your book i think you know you talk about this reputation that you developed in the media of like oh she sleeps around she's always with lots of men and then it's like and you're like well that just wasn't the case was there a part of you that it was just that was part of the character and it worked or was there a part of you that just felt no that's not true I want people to know like how did you process that I just knew that it wasn't true and in the media anytime I was seen with someone at a party or whatever people would just assume that that was the case but no one had any idea what I had went through that had made me really fearful.

56:33Like even though I was known as the sex symbol, I didn't feel that way inside at all. And I was so scared to let people in. That's why a lot of my relationships didn't work because I was like a teenager in a way where I only would want to kiss and make out and that was it. And a lot of people wouldn't be able for themselves to stay loyal because all I would do is kiss and they wanted more. And then the media, they just assumed that it was a lot more wilder than it really was because in reality it was actually quite innocent. Yeah. And did you just accept that? You just realized you couldn't change that narrative and it was going to be what it was going to be?

57:14Or was it something you didn't pay attention to? you? I just tried just to not pay attention to things. I just feel that the media just always was constantly inventing rumors about me. And I just felt like a target a lot of the times, because I just felt that it was myself and then a certain group of girls that they would do this to. What I find the most amazing thing is even in this interview, so many times you've said, I'm in a better place now. I'm in a, and I know you're saying there's still healing. I know you're not saying it's figured out and it's perfect. I don't think that's what you're saying.

57:52But what I'm hearing is like, you know, I've worked through things. I've found a good partner. Like I'm in a healthy space. I think the hardest, hardest thing after going through all of these things from an outside perspective is how do you trust another man? Like, right. Like it's like, you've had all these men who've abused you, mistreated you, who've exploited you with the sex tape, who've used your image in ways without even ever consulting or any sort of consent and complete, you know, so, and it's like, you've gone through all of this. How do you even think about dating someone, later on, marrying someone for real?

58:30Like, because I feel like that requires so much of yourself. And although you're sitting here and obviously, you know, you're a new mom and like, and I'm so happy, but I can only imagine that I've had, and I've had people, by the way, ask me this question when I'm on tour where they'll say to me, Jay, I've just been so abused or misused or mistreated. How do I love again? How do I trust again? How have you continued to believe in real love and real trust and loyalty when you've seen the complete opposite your whole life? It was extremely difficult just not being able to let anyone in for so long.

59:05And with Carter, I wasn't even looking for love at this point. This was back in 2019. I went home to the Hamptons for Thanksgiving and I saw Carter that day at Thanksgiving lunch and he was just so sweet and kind of his mom and it was just so different than all the other guys. And he's a Midwestern boy from a town of 800 people. And he's just like this sweet, nerdy, like cute, like just kind person who's doesn't care about fame or any of this. He's just so the opposite of everyone that I've ever known and just has this incredible family values. And it's just this angel. Like I really believe that my grandmother and his dad are up in heaven and planned for us to meet.

1:00:05Because right away, it was just so different. And this like electricity that I had never felt. And it was literally like we were inseparable right away. We moved in with each other. And then the world shut down in March. So then we were really together. Before that, I'd been on the road and traveling over 250 days out of the year for two decades. So I never really had time to get to know someone because I was always on a plane. So just having to be in one place and not the world shutting down, and it was just me and him together. And I feel like times during COVID, like one year of that is like seven years of like my normal life because my life is usually so busy with everything I'm doing.

1:00:55So all of that has just been like, I don't know, it's just been so different than any other relationship where I just felt like this is my destiny. That's beautiful. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm so happy to hear that. I can see you come to life and you're like, there's a, there's a, there's a glow when you're talking about Carter, which is, which is really beautiful to see. But how, how and when did you start feeling comfortable with talking to him about what had gone on? Because I'm guessing that was a safe space, probably the first time you'd felt it from someone you were close to. What was that process like?

1:01:33Because I can imagine it's also really scary to be like, I found a really great thing. Now I'm going to share what my real trauma is and challenges is. And how does this affect? Will that person stay? Will they run away? These are the real things real people think about. How did you start sharing what you'd been through? And when did you start feeling like you wanted to do that? I feel that timing is everything. And I had just finished filming my documentary when we started dating. so I was already going through this whole just like emotional journey and then I showed him my documentary and he was the first person I had showed it to so he learned so much about me from that and then he just started asking me so many questions and since I had already opened about it in the film I felt I feel like that really prepared me for being able to speak about it in real life to people.

1:02:30Do you remember an interesting question he asked you about your experience that you felt like really brought you both closer together? Like, was there something specific that he asked about that when you, and what was your answer and one that something that brought you closer together than you were before that? Yeah, I think it was just the way he was. He just actually listened and he started crying during certain parts of our conversation because he felt just so emotional for what I had went through and just to see someone cares that much really just made me trust him even more just to know that he cared so much to even I don't know have a conversation like that because I feel like I just had never really had such a deep conversation with someone before you you said that you don't cry about a lot of this much anymore but when did you really allow yourself to cry about it and feel it through?

1:03:32When was that opportunity you gave yourself? A lot of times I would cry just, just... after going through things in life and just feeling so alone, just coming home at the end of the night and having no one to talk to talk about it. just a lot of times in my life. And especially after my documentary and writing my book, just rereading all of that has just been so emotional just to have to feel it all. Yeah, yeah. You even spoke about, you know, hiding your pregnancy from your family and that was something that you and your, you know, you and car kind of kept to yourself and i i was when i when i first learned about that i was like that was so interesting to me because it seems like in one sense your life since you were young has been so public and so broadcasted and so overly commented upon and been out there and then almost you're having this really precious personal beautiful moment and my interpretation was that it was a protection of like no this needs to be personal and private and sacred and and special it's what is that what was going through your mind of why you wanted it to be so private like what how did that decision come about where it's like no well actually this is the one thing that is going to be that way i just felt that my life has been so public for over two decades of being in this whole industry and with my baby i just felt that this was something that I didn't want all the outside opinions from the world or just the online trolls or anyone talking about my son until he was here on this, in this point world and healthy and safe.

1:05:25And I just, I don't know. I just feel like I wanted to keep that for me. So no one knew about it until he was literally a week old wow what's the pleasure in public broadcast and what's the sweetness in private sacred personal experience talk to me about the difference of the joy you get from like being in media and being on stage being in front and center and then what's the difference in how it feels when you get to have a special experience like that i just want everyone to hear because i think those are two things we crave and chase for me i love to make other people happy and feel that energy and love and it's just an amazing feeling um but then to be with my baby boy and just have him laying on my chest and looking up at me at night with his innocent eyes and just this little sweet, precious angel who's just my world.

1:06:35So there are two different feelings. Like one is just exciting, but then the other one is actually just true, real love. And I feel that for so long, I always considered all of that type of attention, love, but now I know what real love truly is. well yeah that that hit yeah that hit i want everyone to take that away that we often think of attention as love we think of validation as love we think of compliments as love but love actually isn't any of that those are just almost like fake currency or fake money and yeah real love is is what you're experiencing now with your baby boy and with carter and with yourself at the deepest level.

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1:09:29So you can continue to celebrate all of life's biggest milestones. Go online at statefarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. It's the first time I've gotten to know myself, so therefore I could really love myself because I feel that for so long I was just very lost. And I had been through so much that I was just living such this fast-paced life that I never even had time to think about anything. And I think I purposely made myself so busy that I wouldn't have time to think about anything that bad I'd went through in my life.

1:10:17And now I've gotten getting to know myself and just feel so many different feelings. Now I truly can love and know every part of me. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. How are you hoping to be as a mother now, like having, you know, you've had an interesting relationship with your own family, which you talk about in the book so much. I think we all have complex relationships with our own parents and family and we love them. We appreciate them. And then there's certain decisions. There's a, you know, you talk about how like, you know, at one point you wish that your parents would just say, sorry, we did that.

1:10:55But then you've learned to understand that they may never get there. How does that, how have you become okay with that? we'll get to the mothering part, but how have you become okay with that? Because I think for a lot of people, that's the hardest thing where it's like, my parents were wrong. They made a mistake. They should be sorry. They should be accountable. But you're actually saying, I do feel all those ways, but at the same time, I actually feel like that's okay. That's their journey and that's their story. And I'm okay with that. How do you, cause that's a real nuanced, subtle place to be.

1:11:23How do you, how do you become okay with that? For me, just knowing everything I know now, I think for when I was a teenager and I was sent away, I was so just sad and I was angry. But now being an adult and just doing all my research and now finding out that these schools are completely manipulative and they lie to the families and have all this false advertising and fake brochures and just it's such an evil industry. And my parents had no idea and they were tricked. And that's something that I realize now. And so I can't be angry at them because they were just trying to to do what they thought was right.

1:12:22Yeah, that requires a lot of maturity though. Like that requires a lot of looking at the context because I find like when you don't have that context, it's so easy to be in conflict with someone. But when you actually create that context and you zoom out and you go, wow, like this is a big industry. So many people have been brainwashed. So many people have been marketed to and so many people have been made to believe that this is the best thing for their kids to the point that you're on the phone and they're still saying, no, no, no, just work the program and how does that affect how you want to be a mother because i can imagine that it makes you want to be really protective and at the same time like you've also lived a life where you know the benefits of exploring like you you talk about in the book multiple times of like you're happy you partied you're happy you went out like you're not you're not upset with that and then it's like how do you how do you think about with becoming a mother and how you plan on raising a child like how do you think about protecting versus also exploring and curiosity and how that how you help a child with all those crazy decisions we all have to make now that i'm a parent i can completely understand just if i had a daughter and she was sneaking out in the middle of the night in new york city and i had no idea where she was i would be so terrified so I can completely understand just how my parents were just scared because they were just trying to protect me.

1:13:50And I think that's a hard part because you just want to protect your children so much. And I think when you're so strict, it just makes them want to rebel. So I don't know. I think I'm definitely going to be strict. I'd hope that my little phoenix does not rebel, but at least I'll be more prepared because of everything that I've went through. And also I won't be able to be tricked about sneaking out or any of that because I know everything.

1:14:23But I'm hoping that he will just feel so safe that he'll be able to tell me anything or he won't want to hide anything because I think that's when kids will sneak out or do things or lie because they feel like they can't talk to you. Yeah. I think that's what it is. That really resonated for me. Every kid in the world is going to make bad mistakes and bad choices and bad decisions. I mean, I don't know anyone who hasn't, but if you feel safe enough and comfortable enough to tell your parents and you don't feel like you have to hide from them, then you can actually solve stuff with them and you don't feel judged by them.

1:14:59That makes the world of a difference. Yeah, it's funny what you said there. Like you're like, he's never going to be able to get away with anything because you're, you're the, you're the ultimate, he is your son. So you never know. Like he might be, he's going to be super smart as well and know exactly how to play the game. You said in your, you said in your documentary that you don't believe you will be truly happily happy until you have$1 billion. How's that goal changed? How, how has that metric changed? I think before I had such a focus on money because I really saw that as freedom because that was something I said to myself.

1:15:40When I get out of here, I'm going to become so successful, make so much money that no one will be able to control me or tell me what to do. But now I've just become so successful in everything I've created with my media company and all of that. And I'm so proud, but that's not my main focus. I care more about babies than billions. Babies over billions. Yes. Yeah. Or I can have both. I can have both. I love that. One of the things that really struck me in your book, and I'm happy to hear that shift in goal, that's beautiful. I think one of the things that shifted, you said this, you talked about how you got robbed of time.

1:16:21And then you said the only way you got through, and I thought this was so true and so powerful, and that's why I want to share it with everyone, You said the only way you got through the school, specifically you're talking about the school at that time, but assuming pretty much everything in your teens that you went through in your 20s, you said, I created a future world, a future self and a future life without boundaries. And that's how you survived. Can you walk us through what that means? How were you in this, almost in prison, like it sounds that way, the way you described it, but creating a future world, a future self, and a future life, what does that look like when you're in prison, chaos, like pain?

1:17:05How are you doing that? I was just so just sad and depressed. And it was just so horrible of what I was going through every single day that I just started just creating in my mind of this whole life that I wanted and what I wanted to do. when I got out of there and just building this kind of most fantasy life of who I could be. And I really do believe in manifestation and really manifesting who you can become because I really believe that I did that. And it all started from just so much pain and then wanting to turn it into something positive. how much of it happened the way you imagined it versus how much of it has actually been better than you imagined or less than because yeah i'd love to know i just i always had big dreams but i had no idea it would ever be on this level and it was just um it's been such a journey just everything that i've went through like when I was a little girl, I wanted to be a veterinarian and then moved to New York and just saw just this whole other world of business and everything.

1:18:31And I think that just sitting there and having time just to really think about everything. And I always dreamed of having one perfume and now I'm about to release my 30th. And it's just that I feel like everything I've really put my mind to has came true. and that was just your focus so when you're in that school facility and you're going through all of this your mind's just there is that literally you just sit there and visualize it it was like an escape definitely otherwise it would have just been so hard to go through if I didn't have dreams of what I wanted to do and would you say that was the same technique with one of the things that hit me was like you know you felt good things happening in a role before and then you know specifically in the example when you're talking about simple life comes out it's good it's going to come out it's you're excited about it the sex day comes out straight after all of a sudden everyone's you know tearing you apart taking you down it's the worst things happen where you know it's put up in a grocery store sign you know there's you talk about all of this in the book and I'm thinking you're just feeling like you've got through the tough time your life's on track and then all of a sudden it's like this something goes back in your face again I'm like how did you just I I constantly when I was reading the book I was like how do you get up from this right like was it again the same visualization and manifestation that helps you break through that or what helps you overcome and reframe that because I think that would just knock people out forever i that was one of the most painful experiences to go through just to have been with someone and really loved and trusted them and something that was one night of your life where you never thought anyone would see it and then the whole world is watching it and judging and just being so cruel and it was just mortifying and I didn't leave my house for like months and I didn't want to see anyone I canceled the press tour for The Simple Life I just was it was so just painful to go through that and just to have the whole world just knowing that everyone was watching it and just felt like he took away something from me because I had always looked up to these amazing women and like Princess Diana and I just felt that because of what he did to me the whole world would always assume that I was something that I wasn't just based upon one night with someone who I really trusted.

1:21:26What's the first step you took outside your house? What gave you the courage to do it? And how did you realize I'm not going to let that person define my narrative?

1:21:40Definitely took a while for me to feel brave enough to go out there. And my first thing that I did was actually Saturday Night Live with Jimmy Fallon. And I feel like I took control of the narrative there just with that script, with how they wrote it. I thought it was just really... Yeah, you share in the book really well. Just a funny way to, I don't know how to describe it, but I just felt like I was taking control of my narrative in that way. Yeah. When I, when I read your story and when I listen to them, like here's someone who has just never backed down, like never given up. And I think this book, which I encourage everyone who's listening to read, I really do because I think when we see things in the news, they're very different to when you see it from the viewpoint of the person going through it.

1:22:36Yeah. And I just want everyone to think about for a second, just how you feel when your friends think something differently than the truth or how you feel when your parents or maybe you live in a bigger community and they all think something of you that wasn't true or they see something about you and they react to it differently. And you know inside of you how you feel when your narrative is taken away from you and it's stripped away from you and another narrative is placed on you. I think everyone in the world knows what that feels like on some scale and some level. and I hope that it allows us to see that nuance in everyone else it's not saying that anyone's perfect or anyone's amazing it's saying that can we just accept that there are two sides to every story that there are there's countless hidden truths that we never discover that we're not aware of and that there's nuance to everything there's subtleties to everything and that everything isn't how it's made to seem in the way it's presented and if we could just give people the benefit of the doubt we'll probably give ourselves the benefit of the doubt as well definitely don't judge a book by its cover yeah and and uh we all do that all the time um paris it has been such a joy talking to you today because i really appreciate your trust i know you haven't done a lot of interviews and you haven't i i really appreciate and value your trust and your team's trust in me and having this conversation with me today.

1:24:08It really means a lot to me having read your book to actually get to sit with you. And we end every episode with a final five. These are five questions that have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So short answers. You're very good at taglines and all the rest of it. So this should be easy for you. But Paris Hilton, these are your final five. Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? You only live once, so make the most of it. Okay. And what's the worst, second question, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received? The worst advice that I've ever seen is when people say to care so much about the opinions of others.

1:24:51I feel that in my life that I used to just care so much about what others think. And I think it's just important to care only about people in your life that love and care about, you think, and not others who are not good people. Amazing. Question number three, how would you define your current purpose? My current purpose is to make the world a safer place for children. Oh, that is a beautiful purpose. Thank you for doing that. I feel so grateful that that's your purpose. I think that's such a need in the world right now. and the legislations and the bills and you know it's that's the only way it's really going to happen to to make sure that it doesn't happen in the first place in a proactive way so that's really beautiful if you had a message or an intention or a something you would say to the people that have hurt you and made you feel like you were the one who had to be shamed and embarrassed what would you say to them you should be ashamed of what you've done and I hope that you read this book and you never do it again.

1:26:10Thank you. Great answer again. I think it's so interesting, like to really feel remorseful and to really feel sorry means to really try your best to live through the pain you caused someone. I don't think you can, you can never really take, you can never take back what you did and you can never, to be honest, you're sorry and your remorse can never really repay the other person. And I'm guessing you've had to do all this work without any apologies or remorse, right? Or has there ever been any apology or remorse from any of these people or never

1:27:00no never

1:27:07I think that's the that's probably one of the most incredible lessons from this book is that there's a famous quote that says we should learn to accept apologies that we've never received and it seems like that's what your work is doing that you've learned to accept apologies that actually never came your way and i love what you said about people reading the book to really understand how much they can potentially wreck and ruin someone's life especially a young person uh fifth and final question you'll like this one if you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow what would it be my law would be that everyone has to do one kind thing every single day beautiful i feel that the more things that people do the better place the world will be i love that paris thank you for being here thank you for writing this book i want to ask you a question is there anything that anything that's on your heart and mind that i haven't asked you about that you really wanted to share that i want to open it up give you that space is there anything you'd like to share anything i haven't asked you that you feel is really front of mind or front of heart for you.

1:28:21I can't think of anything. Great, that's good. That's a good thing. That makes me happy. That makes me happy. I just wanted to honor it because I really feel you've been so giving and kind and generous through your story. And I want everyone out there who's listening and watching to go and grab a copy of the book, Paris the Memoir. Give it to a friend who's gone through something or you might know they've gone through something and they're not sure how to process it and they're thinking about it, they're struggling with it. I think that this book is going to open up some incredible conversations about abuse, about ADHD, about connection to our families and parents, about rediscovering ourselves.

1:29:03And I hope it starts that conversation for you and your friends. Paris, thank you again. Thank you. Thank you. So happy that I came on this. You're awesome. Thank you. You're very sweet. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations.

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