President Joe Biden ON: How to Navigate the Path of Grief with Resilience and Hope & Ways to Make Challenging Decisions Under Pressure

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2:15Jay Shetty's podcast, On Purpose, is the number one health and wellness podcast. The president participated in an interview with Jay Shetty, who you all may know, to discuss the administration's effort to tackle the mental health crisis. Mr. President. How are you, man? Such a pleasure. Good to see you. Thank you for this honor. Thank you. Very, very grateful. The day will come when you open that closet door and you smell the fragrance of her dresses or you're going by that park where you walked with your child or your wife or your husband or the thing that reminds you that for the longest time will just bring a tear to your eye.

2:52but eventually every once in a while it'll bring a smile to your lips before brings a tear to your eye. When that happens, you know you're going to make it. Best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. I'm so grateful and honored that you're here with me right now. Thank you so much for all your love and all your support for On Purpose. It's incredible what we've been creating together, what we've been building together and I'm so excited to share some big news with you. This is an extremely special interview today As I'm sitting down with the President of the United States, Joe Biden This is only possible because of all your love and support for the podcast And making us a platform that the President and his team felt was right To talk about mental health This conversation is dedicated to the person behind the podium I always want to get to know the human behind the title, behind the position behind what they do in the world and spotlight and shine a light on mental health.

3:53We talk about so many of the things that he's gone through in his personal life. I'm so grateful that I got to have this conversation that we're going to share with the world at large and make sure that mental health is a mainstream conversation because it's so integral to all of our lives. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Thank you for all your love and support. It means the world to me.

4:16hey everyone welcome back to on purpose the number one health and wellness podcast in the world thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to learn listen and grow now you know our mission here is to make the world happier healthier and more healed and i believe that learning about people's stories of healing of grief of loss of growth is a powerful way to do that. And today I've been graciously invited to the White House and I'm sitting with Mr. President and I'm so grateful and honored to be here and to have you on our platform and for you to choose our platform to have this conversation.

4:56I couldn't be more honored. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm glad you'd want to interview me. Absolutely. Well, let's dive straight in. The first question I'd like to ask you is, what is your earliest childhood memory that you believe defines who you are today and the person you've become? The earliest memory I have is, there's two of them. One is there was a bully in the neighborhood, lived down an area called The Plot, and we lived up the hill. and I was out with my friends in the alley behind our house and my mother was at the pantry looking out. The tough guy in the neighborhood smacked me.

5:39He was a couple years older than me and I came in holding my face. And my grandfather was at the kitchen table and said, what's the matter, Joey? And he said, that's a shame. I walked in and my mother said, Joey, go back out there. So go back out there. He said, wait till he walks up to you. And as soon as he does, smack him right in the nose in the nose. She said, I'll give you 50 cents if you do it. And I said, why, Mom? She said, you won't be able to walk in that alley again if you don't. I was scared to death. I walked out, popped him in the nose, it bled, he ran, and I thought, huh. It worked.

6:15But I think the lesson I learned the most, though, is I used to stutter badly. And I would talk like that. and then I'd catch my rhythm and be able to... And it was something that I thought was the worst curse could happen to me because everybody makes fun of it. I had a similar experience with being bullied, so that resonates very strongly with me. I think everybody does. I was the runt of the litter. No, I really was. I was a little guy, and I was a relatively good athlete even when I was a kid, but I literally was the runt of the litter. Well, for me, it was my weight. I was overweight growing up, and it was the color of my skin.

7:01I grew up in an area where I wasn't surrounded by a lot of Indian people. And so those were the two reasons, except my mother didn't give me that advice. Sometimes I wish she did. My mother did the opposite. She actually came into my school and spoke to the teachers, which was really embarrassing at that age and, you know, not helpful for me. Oh, no, I think maybe it is. You know, I had a similar thing. I went to Catholic grade school in high school. And you sit in those days, you sat in alphabetical order. I was in the first row, Biden, four people down. And reading class, everybody read a paragraph.

7:34I got to my paragraph, and I remember what it was, because I used to try to memorize it rather than have to look at the word when I was rereading it. And it was said, and he was a gentle man. And the teacher said, what's that, Mr. Biden? She wanted to say, gentlemen. But it's easier to not let her say gentleman. I said gentleman. I said, Mr. B-B-Biden, what is that? And I got up and walked out and walked home, which was about two miles. And my mother was sitting there tapping the table when I walked in. She'd get in the car. Went down in the car. We walked in, went to the principal's office, sat me outside the door.

8:11The door was crowded. You know, it was one of those opaque glasses, glass windows, and it didn't go to the ceiling. I mean, anyway, to make a long story short, she said, I'd like to speak to the teacher, my mother said. And she said, Mrs. Biden, I'd like to speak to the teacher. So the teacher walks in and looked at me like, you're in trouble now, Biden. Walked in, sat down, there was a crack in the door. I'll never forget this. And my mother, Catherine Eugenia Finnegan Biden, and she looked and I could say, what did you say to my son? She said, did you say Biden? So I'm just trying to make a point, Mrs.

8:45Biden. She said, if you ever do that again, I'll come back and rip that bonnet off your head. Do you understand me? I swear to God. Wow. Get up, walk down, go back to class, Joey. But, you know, everybody has something that is tough, particularly when you're younger. And it makes such a difference when somebody reaches out. I'm sure you also had some experience with someone saying, come on. Like, for example, there's more than a handful of young stutterers. They're not so young anymore that I still keep in touch with. One young kid introduced me when I ran for president. He took such courage because he talked like that.

9:28And he practiced and he practiced and he practiced. But it's had a profound impact on his life. Another young man, when I was vice president, he was, I could tell. You can tell a stutterer if you're a stutterer just by when you're in line with his mom who was in Tennessee. I was doing a thing for Al Gore. And she introduced her son. And I could see him go. His lips. I said, hey, I'm about to finish my speech. Why don't you come help me write it? And the mother looked at me. He looked at me. I took him in. I showed him how I marked up my speeches so that I could get a little cadence with what I did.

10:09Did you ever see the movie The King's Speech? Yes, of course. Well, the gentleman who had a copy of The King's Speech sent me a copy. And I don't know if I have my book with me, but one of these days I'll show you my speeches. I looked at it and I marked it up the same way. Every speech I mark up is the same way. I think they might have it. See the slash marks I put on? Yes. Well, it's just to help me. But, you know, there were people who reached out to me too. Maybe that impediment was the best thing that ever happened to me. It's incredible, isn't it, how a challenge that you're going through actually helps you become more compassionate and empathetic towards other people.

10:50It's kind of human nature for most people. When you understand the pain someone's feeling, your first instinct is, look, we have an expression in the family from the time I was a kid. It's all about showing up. to just being there. I mean, I imagine the times when you were down because they're making fun of your Indian heritage and an all-white population, that having someone come up and say, hey, come on, you and me, let's do, boom, makes a difference. Absolutely. Yeah, I'll never forget, you just reminded me, Ian Windes was his name. He was the toughest kid in school, and he had my back. That was that person that reached out to me.

11:33So if anyone had a problem with me, they had a problem with him, He'd take care of it and felt very safe with Ian. Well, it really is all about reaching out, isn't it? I mean, for real. Think of all the young people today. I think that there's more anxiety and loneliness today than there's been in a long, long time. You know my friend, I appointed Admiral Vivek Murthy. He was telling me about, you know, the percentage of young people today who are feeling lonely, alone. And sometimes it's just touching, just showing up. I used to get my deceased son, Bo, who should be sitting here instead of me, would always say, Dad, you don't have time to make that call.

12:21I'd get in a plane and go home because someone had a serious problem, lost a wife, a daughter. And I said, Dad, you don't have time. When he passed away, the hundreds of people had told me how he called. He showed up. He was there. And because of people who showed up for me too, it just really matters. Yeah. You've been through, you mentioned it there, you've been through so much tragic loss in your life. As you just mentioned there, you didn't run for presidency in 2016. Shortly after the loss of your son, you've lost your first wife and daughter in a horrific accident. I can't even begin to understand how someone has the courage to process that much loss and grief, let alone move forward in the way you have.

13:11It's truly admirable. How did you begin? I had an overwhelming advantage in the loss, and that was I had a really close family that was there. For example, when my wife and daughter were killed, My first wife and my two boys were very badly injured. A tractor trailer brought side of them. I was not in the accident. When I got home from the hospital, my sister and husband already gave up their apartment and moved in. Helped me raise my kid. My brother, we lived in a suburban area. It was more country than suburban. And there was a little barn on it, a garage barn. My brother came in. He turned the loft of the barn into an apartment for himself.

13:53They were there for me all the time. That was a gigantic difference. My best friend in my life and my sister and my brother. And so I had an enormous advantage. And I think that when you see people who are going through something tough, it does matter if you reach out. I mean, it does matter. Like, for example, you know, you have a—when you're a senator for all the years I was in a small state, you know, so many people. and people would pass away, you'd show up at the wake of the funeral. No matter what was happening, I learned it early on, people would stop and just come and throw their arms around me.

14:34Because if they know, you know, the pain they feel, they get some solace in it. It's not always easy, but it just matters just to reach out. Let people know you see them. How did you allow yourself to receive that help too? I feel like, as you were mentioning earlier, with the loneliness and anxiety that exists, a lot of people either struggle to know what to say. I think we live in a society where people are like, but what do I say if they've gone through that? And the opposite end, what you just said, being able to be open enough to actually receive help requires a certain amount of courage and strength as well.

15:14Well, I was raised in a family for real, an extended family, my grandparents as well, where my dad had an expression, family's the beginning, middle, and end. There was a rule in the family growing up, not a joke. We didn't know it at the time, but whenever you wanted to speak to your mother or father, they said, can we, he had a problem. No matter what they were doing, they stopped. No matter what they were doing, they stopped and heard you, listened to you. And I did the same with my children, and they did the same with theirs, because it's a matter of them knowing that they are the most important thing in your life.

15:58If they've got a problem, you're there to listen. I have seven grandkids, four of them all, five of them old enough to talk on the phone. You know, every day I either text them or call them. As a matter of fact, during a campaign, I didn't realize they were having an interview. the four oldest grandchildren. They said, and just at the time of this said, they call me Pop. Pop calls us every day or texts us every day. And I called them, the phone rang. While they're in the internet. Well, I give them my word. I had no idea they were in there. But it's a, look, I just think being there is important and it makes such a difference, I think, knowing that someone's going to be there for you.

16:47just to listen, just to hold you, just to hug you. Yeah. We all want to live with more purpose, more connection and more joy. Sometimes that starts with a small piece of wisdom, a perspective shift, a grounding practice or a story that makes you feel less alone. On TikTok, those moments are being shared every single day. Millions are finding people who show meditation techniques, discuss the science of the mind or share daily habits that many find helpful. Others are opening up about their own journeys, talking about well-being, resilience and healing in ways that can make you feel seen. And what stands out is the way it's shared.

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19:40No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com forward slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., member FDIC, subject to credit approval, terms apply. I believe you're right. I believe we often overcomplicate things. We think we have to say the perfect thing. We have to have the solution. We have to be able to fix someone's problem. I agree. But it's just half of just showing up. Even people you don't know that well, but you've met, the fact you'd call and say, I'm thinking of you. I learned this from my experience.

20:27The day will come when you open that closet door and you smell the fragrance of her dresses or you're going by that park where you walked with your child or your wife or your husband or the thing that reminds you. And for the longest time, it'll just bring a tear to your eye. But eventually, every once in a while, it'll bring a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eye. When that happens, you know you're going to make it. That's the moment you know I make it. It doesn't mean you still don't cry. It doesn't mean the pain still isn't real. even years later, but you know you can make it.

21:07I think there's an advantage sometimes if you have deep faith, whether you're Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, whatever. My family, when they wanna get an important message to me, they tape it on the mirror of the bathroom. I'm serious, not a job. So you wake up in the morning and - No, it's on the mirror. I guess I was down early on. It's not going to be 10 years ago. I was down or something. And my daughter, Ashley, taped on my, she's a social worker, taped on my mirror. Happiness is something to do, someone to love, and something to look forward to. And, Dad, you have all those things.

21:51Just remind you, you know. I think what you just said about the smile before the tear is probably one of the realest things I've ever heard. I think we often are trying to create a world in which we only have smiles and we put pressure on ourselves and the people around us to be forever happy. And what you just said there was really, really resonated with me. It really hit me actually, the idea that you will cry, it will happen, but that tiny smile that you experience, even through a loss, even through grief, you're fortunate that you got to have that experience that allowed you to find that smile at that time.

22:29And I feel like you've been through so many obstacles in your life, but I'd love to know what you see as the relationship between vulnerability and strength, especially as a leader, because I think leaders have an overarching pressure to display strength in a certain way. I'll give you an example. I coach several CEOs and individuals, athletes and others. And one of the CEOs who leads a large organization called me a few months ago, and we were working through some things together. And at one point I said to them, I said, it would be really wonderful for you to tell your teams that you lead what you've been going through and growing through.

23:13And they said, Jay, I don't know if I can tell them. I don't know if I can tell them. And I said, why? And they said, well, because it will look like I'm weak. And I said to them, Well, no, you being vulnerable and sharing your growth is the greatest strength. That's not a weakness. But that was new because so many leaders feel they have to portray a certain type of strength. But even today, I can see there's a grace in the way you're sharing. Well, I have a rule that I thought that everybody in my staff knew. Because I had, when I was a senator for a long time, at one point, I don't know how they measured it, But I had the same staff longest than anybody in the Senate at the time.

23:58For example, we were doing a very, very important Supreme Court hearing. I was chairman of the Judiciary Committee. And we worked on it very hard and did all the research and, you know, anyway. And there was one young man who people say was invaluable because he's the guy who knew all the detail about certain things. And I found out that he was having trouble at home. And I said, I want you to go home. Don't come to the hearing. He said, I can't. Go home. Go home. And you know why? Because I would go home. I have a thousand bosses, but only one. Me. No one. And so I know when I had crises at home, raising the boys, I went home.

24:43I don't know how many years ago it was, but in this job, in his vice president, another person was having some trouble at home. And I found out, but I said, go home. They said, no, no, I can't. I got it. I said, if you don't go home, I'm going to fire you. Go home. Your relationship is a hell of a lot more important than whatever you're doing for me. So that's a rule we have, not a joke. Absolutely not. And you never have to tell me why. All you got to say is, I'm not going to be in. I take you at your word. If it turns out you're playing games with me, I'll learn. But I know you too well. Take the time.

25:21Because you're not going to be any better than your relationship. And it's a little bit what you were just talking about. And, you know, I think you'd have to ask my staff. I don't know. But I think they, as long as they know, that's more important, more important than doing whatever specific thing you're doing at that moment for me. How do you apply that rule when it feels like what they are working on this specific moment seems obviously to be the most important thing in the world? How do you? Well, because there's only one advantage of getting older. You've had a lot of experience, and you can apply a little bit of wisdom.

26:01It's really critical. And by the way, there's a selfie sax bet to it, because when you have a problem with someone you love or some problem, you've got to deal with it. Yeah, and you can't even perform as well. Exactly right. Yeah, absolutely. You've every day for years had to make difficult and stressful decisions, high stakes, hugely impactful on so many people. When you're making decisions, do you follow your head, your heart, your gut? How do you think about decision making? I don't know how to separate the three. Many times my heart brings me to the problem. and my gut tells me what I think I want to do, but my head, meaning the research, the back, sometimes says that's the wrong answer.