Russ ON: How to Change Your Self-Critical Mindset & The Truth Behind the Emotional Struggles of Men

29:56And when I got all that and I still had all of those issues, that's what I mean by not working. And I agree too, like I prefer my life now than the alternative, but the whole is still there. And I think at 17, when I started like really going after this, I don't know if I had the depth and the awareness to know what I was going after. Like I'm chasing approval and validation but um when i look back i can pinpoint certain behaviors in certain times in the studio whatever where i was like where i can tell i wanted people to validate me and i want and i thought that rap in the industry was gonna pat me on the back you know and that's kind of what i talk about and i love you boy which is like you know i just i replaced my dad with the industry, which is really like wild, right?

30:53Because I felt like as a kid wanting just approval of your dad as a son, you know, when you don't get it, you can feel like ostracized kind of, and just like you don't belong and you're not good enough and all these things. And it's so strange that as a white guy, what I chose to pick to replace my dad, to give me approval was a craft that I'm not, that I'm ostracizing off off bat you know what I mean it's like it's like I picked the hardest thing to get approval from like I replaced my dad with an industry and started to rap I want to praise and acknowledgement and pick the profession that people who look like me don't get you know what I mean so it's like it was almost like I guess if I could like analyze where my head was at when I was 17 maybe because it's like if I could get approval from this thing that I love this genre, this lifestyle, this whole culture, then I'm officially approved, you know, because I know how hard it is to get approval from that.

31:56And I don't know, it just, but it really stems from once again, not having the self-approval and the self-validation and thinking that someone else is going to give it to you. And I remember talking with my therapist and he was like, oh, I think I said like, yeah, but you know, if I do get a number one album or a number one, and go number one on the Billboard Hot 100. And this person says, I'm great. I'm sure like I'll feel really good. He's like, you probably will for about 20 minutes. And then I think you'll have your lowest moment of your life. You know, and I agree. You know, because when I have gotten crazy accomplishments, it lasts for not that long.

32:35And I'm right back to like, I'm lower because that's another thing on the list that didn't do it. That's another thing that didn't fill the hole. You know, Forbes list. Nope. Platinum. Nope. Buy a mom house. Nope. Like none of it. You know, I see what you're saying. And I want, I want that to register with people because what Russ is doing, which I appreciate is clarifying the difference. It's great in and of itself. It just doesn't fill the hole inside. Like it doesn't solve the fact that I don't feel better about who I am and myself. It's beautiful to buy your mom a house. That's awesome. Like it's good for her.

33:10It's great. Like that, that's not the point the point is it doesn't change how i feel yeah about my level of self-worth right and self-esteem yeah the point is like if if i thought that buying my mama house and making the forblest and going platinum was going to make me feel validated approved and like i'm good enough then that's the mistake yeah that's where you're going to feel emptier than ever because you're going to do that and that's not what's going to do it yeah you know what's really interesting for me listening to you is so i'm kind of like where you're at with your parents where i love both my parents and independently and in the same way i have a good relationship with both of them today and but but it wasn't always it wasn't that way externally and with my dad especially so my dad didn't validate me or even support me when i was growing up like he would if he turned up to a swim competition because i used to swim a lot when i'd look up at the stands he'd be reading his newspaper so or if i was i played rugby for my school and it was one of my favorite things that i made it onto my school's rugby team i used to be a lot bigger growing up and he did he would never turn up to support me and so my dad wasn't there and that was really interesting because at the time it made me just want to get approval of my friends and like be cool and whatever and that leads you to do all sorts of dumb stuff yeah but what it ultimately led me to was i got to make my own rules of what success were.

34:33So not getting his, he never had a version of success for me. Right. Like he almost didn't have like, this is what you have to be to be successful. Right. And so I've always seen it as I just got freedom to define what kind of man I wanted to be. Yeah. Because my dad didn't really define what kind of man he cared I would be. Right. And it's really interesting now because when I look at my relationship with him today, he's more like a friend than he is my dad because he wasn't really fathering me and i think where i got really lucky like this really was was like one of those moments when you feel fortunate is i projected that lack of fatherhood fortunately onto the monks oh so i like because that wasn't what i was meant to be and i wasn't spiritual and i really look at that as like i didn't have any positive role models in my life i didn't have any positive male role models in my life and the monks were positive male role models and i met them at when i was 18 years old so important so it's so important and the crazy thing about them is they don't validate you wow so it was like even more challenging but it's like you see an amazing role model who's showing you the right way but is not trying to falsely validate or approve you so you still have to figure out i have to do it yourself you still They're teaching you what you just said, how to do it yourself.

35:53Yeah. Like that it's still you on your own. You got to live in your own mind. And when you realize that it's like, yeah, I live in my own mind. Yeah. These are my thoughts. Yeah. What you just said earlier, I either have to, I either am translating my dad's voice. Yeah. Into becoming my voice. Right. Or I'm actually going to choose what I want my thoughts to be. Right. And that's what they were training us in. So through so much fortune, I got to that point. Yeah. and even till this day i'm constantly just practicing that because again i haven't perfected it i still get into the place where you start hearing the noise it's so funny because that's why i ended the album with just me singing it was you all along because all these things i'm chasing validation love approval patience all of it is things that i have to give myself and i just i thought that everything and everyone else was going to give it to me tell me some of the ways you've been giving it to yourself because you are getting like you said like a lot of people get to the point you've got to when they're unsuccessful so like they wait till the record's now not getting the downloads and the streams and like they're not really winning the stuff and things aren't going well and then you go oh this wasn't it you're realizing it while things are hot right like things are good you've got a new album dropping the music sounds great by the way i wanted to say like i i was thankful that your team sent me the of course the album before and it's I can't wait to play it more and more.

37:12And I can't wait for everyone to hear it. Music's awesome. And I just go, you're winning and you realized it. Like, what are some of the things you're doing to validate yourself? Like, what are you doing? Like, that's what I'm still working on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? What are some of the practices, the habits? Radhi, you know how much we value mindful living and personal growth? But finding the perfect gift that reflects that can be tough. That's why I really love Apple gift card. It's not just a present. it's an investment in their well-being. They can use it to subscribe to their favorite wellness apps from the App Store by inspiring e-books from Apple Books or even upgrade their AirPods.

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39:19This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destination. Every time I travel, I find a part of myself I didn't know was missing. I remember being in this small town, completely unplugged, and for the first time in a while, I felt still. Travel does that. It grounds you, expands you, and connects you to something deeper. That's why I'm always looking for experiences that go beyond the typical. Chase Sapphire Reserve makes traveling a breeze, earning 8x points on all purchases through Chase Travel, and granting access to Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide.

40:09No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com forward slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA, member FDIC, subject to credit approval, terms apply. I think, you know, it's having good values is one of them. Values that like I can control, you know. I think honoring the gift is important, celebrating myself. And I think a way that I've celebrated myself, which makes me feel good about myself, is to honor my gift. and so for example like going to the gym for me to lose 30 pounds of fat not muscle right 30 pounds of fat was crazy um i did it through shame you need to lose weight you know and just talking crazy to myself and it still worked but i lost the weight and i still didn't feel good about myself i still had a breakdown you know um and so now i'm looking at going to the gym as i'm celebrating my health and my body i'm honoring the gift of being alive and being mobile you know and celebrating the gift of my creativity by going to the studio instead of looking at going to the studio like, I need to catch a hit, otherwise I'm a loser.

41:29It's like, nah, I'm celebrating myself. Every time I go to the studio, it's a celebration. That's already a great mindset. Yeah, it's better than where I was at. No, but I think what we don't realize is even if critical, judgmental, negative motivation works, the problem is now that's all you have in your toolkit to motivate yourself. So when you've lost the weight you wanted to lose, you're now motivating yourself still through that criticism judgment and like talking down to yourself. And even with the music, I love what you just said. You feel so much more abundant when you walk into something and you go, I'm just here because I'm grateful to be alive.

42:08I'm happy to be here as opposed to, God, if I don't write the next hit. And I know so many musicians that say that to me and in music, it's the hardest place. Yeah. And I feel like I have so many people in my life that are friends that feel that pressure because again, like you said, it's the pressure they're hearing from their management, their team. Their fans. Their fans potentially, if they're not connected to them, you're going to become irrelevant. You'll never be as big as so-and-so. Didn't you see what they just did? And so if you don't have that healthy dialogue internally, and I do think it is that for me as well, it's like I spend so much time alone just to monitor my internal dialogue.

42:48scary because it's the only way it's terrible because when i'm alone yeah i can truly choose and program the thoughts in my mind yeah whereas if i'm constantly surrounded by people and noise it's natural that it's going to seep in well sometimes the noise distracts us from looking in because looking in is scary that's what i was doing i think that's the biggest reason why people don't want to spend time of course especially men because like we once again know that or we have like believed that our emotions are irrelevant and ignore them you know be like just completely avoid feeling anything and that's what makes you a man and so i think spending time alone and meditation and doing like you know personal work is a very like it feels feminine to men it feels soft and the the like something interesting that i stumbled on is like how strong of a man are you and how brave of a man are you if you're scared to face yourself wow yeah yeah that's the real bravery yeah sit in a room with yourself that's like that's courageous yeah i think it goes back to what you were saying earlier that it's the perfection and positivity issue that we keep thinking that everything has to be like positive and sunny and when i look inside of myself i see tons of a dark side and stuff that i don't want to see but i also know that that's not me because of how we were trained the idea that you know the concept in all of the monk teachings is that the sun is always shining it's just often covered by clouds and so when you look up at the sky all you see is the clouds you don't see the sun and you think i am the clouds wow so when you look at your thoughts you see the cloudy thoughts and you think i'm darkness yeah but actually the sun's always there it's just you can't see it and so the light that me and you are the light that everyone who's listening and watching is is always there it's just we're just seeing all the dirt and the clouds and the rain and the you know and we then judge it and see it as negative rather than the fact that hey wait a minute i'm just i'm just gonna find the light and i understand that sometimes it's gonna be a cloudy day just like it is outdoors yeah and that's what led me to feeling like a fraud that's that song's amazing that's what that is is because looking at the cloud thinking you are the cloud.

45:09And so then when people give you a compliment, you're like, they're giving you a compliment on you being the sun. And for me, I'm like, if only you knew I was a cloud, I would look at my shadow self and the parts of me that I'm ashamed of. It would make it impossible for me to receive love and compliments or anything positive. Also tied in with feeling like a fraud was me having to analyze, well, why did my parents getting a divorce actually affect me? Why did the hate coming in actually affect me? Because on surface, it felt so vapid, like your parents broke up and people don't like you, big deal, right?

45:45But when I, through therapy and through really growing down, that's when I learned like, okay, hold on, since I was a kid, my role and my identity came from being the savior of my family emotionally, you know? And I talk about it on I Love You Boy where my dad was very reactive and my mom was fatalistic. And I was just the one running around knocking on everyone's door to make sure everyone was good after a big fight or whatever. Because I was worried, genuinely worried. So the stakes were super high. They felt like life or death, like maybe there was going to be self-harm or something. And so my identity was tied to saving my family and helping them.

46:23So when my parents got divorced, it was the ultimate blow to my identity of being the savior it wasn't just like your parents broke up bro you're 23 get over it was like who am i if i if my parents break up who am i if i can't save us right and then with the hate coming in i got my self-worth from being approved and liked by everyone and so when i got hate and a lot of it it wasn't just you have haters get over it was who am I if people don't like me? So that's what threw me for a spin. It was, I feel like a fraud. That is so deep. Yeah, your identity is based on the roles you played. Right. And if you can no longer play that role - Who am I?

47:07Then what is your identity? Right. And that's where it's hard because that means, going back to what you said earlier, which was really powerful, is that your values is the best place to start because your values is something you can control. if you only value yourself for a role you play for other people which you don't control right now that's not your value right and when they break up or it goes astray you don't know who you are anymore that is devastating blow yeah yeah especially when i didn't know why i was so upset by it you know i was like this shouldn't be effective i'm 24 25 like what's the big deal but it just didn't go away and then it was funny that like the hate and them divorcing came at the same time and now when i look back i'm like this was all like by design you know this was all to help me grow down but yeah it's like you know when you when you've gotten your identity from a role that you've been playing for so long and that role is taken away from you or threatened it's like yeah who are you you said that phrase twice just now growing down not growing up yeah Yeah.

48:15What does that mean? Because I like that. I think a lot of times in my career, I was just focused on like external growth and like, am I getting more followers? Am I getting more money? Am I getting more plaques? And am I growing up, you know? And I wasn't focused on growing down into like the core of who I am and getting to the root of it and to the truth of myself. And that's what I've been trying to do. That's what this album is, is like me growing down, trying to like get deeper and deeper into who I actually am, you know, because I'm just trying to operate from a place of authenticity and truth.

48:51And it's hard to feel authentic and be authentic when you're operating from a place of shame. Like I'm ashamed of who I am and I'm insecure about who I am. So how can I be authentic? Because authentic, being authentic would mean being insecure and being, and it's like, I can't be that. Yeah. Especially in rap. You know what I mean? So it's like, got to mask it. Got to be omnipotent. You know? What was the darkest and scariest thing you saw when you started growing down? I think the biggest thing I, the like darkest thing and thought I had was like, I don't like myself. That was like the heaviest.

49:34And what was it that you didn't like about yourself? I was ashamed about how I've handled my career. I was very mad about, at like 23-year-old me, I would beat him up daily. I was mad about, you know, me being reactive towards people. I just didn't like anything about, you know, myself. and that was a real low point of like once again fraud if only the world knew you know and I've self-help book right and I mentioned that on fraud as well it's like who am I like to try to give people a book like and for me the book's so successful and it's helped a lot of people but I look back at that book I'm like it's like vapid to me now you know and I'm glad it's helping people but, and I shouldn't, I shouldn't denounce any version of me.

50:33That's like, you're watching in real time what I do. And yeah, that's the, that's the heaviest, darkest thing that I've come to terms with. Not that it's a reality of mine that I want to come to terms with, but getting to a place of like, I don't, I don't like myself. That was the lowest point. I love what you just said that it's like being authentic means being able to accept that I feel insecure. Right. And that, that last version of me just got me through that and that doesn't make it good or bad but it was a reality but we think being authentic means being like smooth and like organized what i've learned in therapy is the admission of insecurity and feeling nervous is step one because what happened to me and i think what happens to a lot of people is rejecting your insecurities leads to self destruction.

51:26So for example, like I used to do interviews super drunk, right? Why? Because I was nervous and insecure about just being my authentic self. I didn't know how to be that version. So I would drink to knock the edge off. So like the, the rejecting of my insecurity led to self-destructive habits and overall a result that I don't like, you know? So yeah, I think just sitting in your insecurities and and and saying that it's okay to be insecure and feel nervous yeah and i think for me it's like nah like especially as men like nah i'm not allowed to like we got to be the man you know yeah yeah yeah i often like even when i if i ever end up i don't go to many parties or events and things like that but if i ever have to or i do go for a specific purpose and it was someone it was what it was on the trevor knower interview when trevor came on the show he said to me goes jay you always seem really comfortable whenever i see you somewhere and i was like that's because i only really go to places i have a purpose like i was like if i don't have a purpose there i was like if you ever see me uncomfortable it's because i don't have a purpose then i don't know what i'm doing there yeah and i i had a couple of those last year which we talked about it's funny enough my my team was like oh you should definitely go to this event it's really important and stuff and so i went along and i just felt really like insecure there and useless because i didn't have a role i didn't have a purpose yeah i wasn't representing what i believe I go to, obviously I was representing myself, but I mean, I wasn't there to represent anything bigger than me showing up.

52:56And I found that when I do feel like that, I just go up to one other person that I feel I could connect with and just be like, Hey, are you feeling insecure too? Cause I am. And it's, and it's amazing because everyone's feeling insecure, like, especially at like these big events that like no one, there's no one, no matter how cool you think anyone is, there is no one who's at an award show or an event or a party or anything that is feeling anything but insecure right i've not met them at least right and doesn't that break the wall down literally completely like as soon as you do that it's like it goes away it's the resisting the insecurity that has everyone on edge and they're looking at you and you seem to have it all the way to get together meanwhile you're panicking inside yeah and now they feel like well i gotta have it all the way together and we're all tense and just like acting yeah and if we could just be like hey is everyone nervous like it's almost like let's all stand here naked like that's what that does emotionally you know what i mean it's like all right cool now let's like now let's continue yeah yeah and that happens in our like you know it happens in family events it happens at weddings it happens at holiday events like it happens in normal life you don't this isn't just about the entertainment industry like it happens everywhere yeah and i fully agree with you that it's because we're just resisting in your in your words like resisting that insecurity yeah what's an insecurity that you were resisting for the longest time like what would you say was an insecurity that you've just been holding on to for not uh feeling like i don't belong that's probably like one of the biggest ones being a white guy in rap in hip-hop um with no cosign within the culture to sort of make me feel like i do belong it was it was a massive insecurity of mine and i just came in guns blazing Like I don't need any y 'all Look And it's like deep down You wanted everyone though You wanted help deep down You know But you masked it by Well if I'm not gonna get it I'll do it myself And that became like A really big like Brand and motto for me And I don't think people understand that My song Do It Myself And that energy It was survival It wasn't like If you have people willing to help You should tell them no It was I didn't have help I wish I did but I didn't so I had to do it myself has there anyone who's ever reached out in the industry that you feel has not co-signed obviously but like given you a bit of that kind of nurturing or has it has it still always been kind of like I'm making I think I've met a lot of great people in the industry who have given me validation and like you're great you're dope but like yeah I mean I've never been like taken under someone's wing yeah you know it was always just kind of like me and my manager just like going at this thing you know and um i'm trying to be more proud of my younger self as much as i want to beat him up for how he like was omnipotent and a maniac but it's like for what you were going through that you crushed you know like i don't know how you did all that and and that's what i love you boy that song is about especially on that third verse where it's like you know saying you deserve of a pat on the back you know it's just like i've never given myself a pat on the back and i wanted to take that song to like as an opportunity to give myself the much needed you know pat on the back yeah and compassion inspired by that song if you saw like if you were if instead of me your younger self was sitting in front of this is a therapy exercise right here instead of me if your younger self was sitting in front of you right now like sitting in this seat what does he need to hear not advice but what does he need to hear what does he need to hear he needs to hear that you're okay you're safe and i got you that's what he needs to hear and what do you think he'd say back probably i don't need your help yeah it's really interesting how like what i think all of us need from ourselves is just more compassion and more grace and the younger version of me needs that so bad, needed that so bad.

56:58And I didn't get it. And he didn't know how to receive that help and receive that compassion. And I don't know if, you know, if I was talking to him and he rejected the help and compassion, I would just keep trying. Cause I know that's what he really needs. He just wants to feel safe. Like he belongs, like it's going to be okay. Like he's allowed to make mistakes. You know, that's the other thing. Once again, being a perfectionist it's like it really is like hindering when it comes to everything like accepting help because once again help is coded as criticism as a perfectionist feeling good about anything you've done because you could have always done better so you didn't quite nail your standard of perfection and i just think like that's what i'm trying to get to now is like giving myself more grace and i talk about it on tunnel vision where i say i want to stop thinking that i got to go through hell to get the credit i desperately need to give to myself you know you can just do this an easier way it's also hard being a high performer who gives grace to themselves yeah because that's the hard part right it's like i want to perform at the best but i know i need to be nice to myself but i can't be too nice because if i'm too nice to myself then i can't perform my best and it's like this fight inside of you yeah i think it it comes down to kind of what you were saying earlier where it's like if your toolkit is only shame and like dark motivation then you're just going to use that and it's not sustainable i think for me the light motivation is like you know i love what i'm doing you know when i'm on stage i love the fans i love performing and as long as i did my best i have to be okay with that yeah you know i can say oh okay you know I know I can do better than that but tonight I did my best and it's easier said than done like I'm working on that but I think that's the place to start is just knowing like did you do your best with the resources that you had and to think that you were supposed to just be this all-knowing entity yeah it's like that's arrogance you know but that's why I would beat myself up a lot it's like how did you not know you know but it's like you're allowed to not know everything that's powerful yeah that's powerful actually to look back and think i wouldn't have done anything better i'm glad that yeah i had to just go through that and having the right people in your corner to support you is a great form of self-care just like the friend who shows up to a housewarming party when you get that dream home celebrates your big promotion or goes with you on a walk to clear your mind state farm is there to help you feel supported they have different coverage options whether it be for your home, car, motorcycle, boat, or even RV.

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1:02:01APU, built for the hustle. That's who I was back then. That's who I was back then. Those were like, I based my decisions in the past off of what I knew back then and what felt true to me back then, what felt authentic. And with the reservoir of knowledge I had back then, that's what I based my decisions off of. Obviously now, seven years later, 10 years, whatever it is, I would make different decisions, but it's like, I can't be mad at 23 year old me that he didn't know what 30 year old me does. Yeah, yeah. it's so hard for me to not want to beat him up. Like, you're such an idiot. All you had to do was like, read this one book and you would have even been better off, you know?

1:02:41Sometimes it feels like the answer was right there. But that's what it is, right? Like we have this habit as humans where we judge ourselves off of one conversation, one event, one performance, one song, one meeting. And what's really interesting thing is about that is that we then project that onto other people where we judge them on one song, one moment, one interaction, rather than looking at someone as this story of a human. And it's fascinating to me that you would never, ever pick up a book and read one page and judge the whole book. No one really does that. You would read some of the book at least, but it's like with ourselves and with others, we don't see them as a story, we see them as a page.

1:03:29Yeah, that's so true. It's so brutal though. It's so brutal. It's so brutal. I do it to myself. And I think in the world of social media too, you're not allowed to make mistakes. Your one mistake is the book. That just tells me everything I need to know about you and how you treat yourself. Because I know like I tend to be, and this is like not a great thing, a very judgmental person. And I justify it by saying, relax, I judge myself too. It's like, that's not good though. Yeah. You know? But I do what you said. I look at one event and be like, you don't deserve anything because of that one combo or that one tweet or that one.

1:04:09Yeah. Not realizing that at that point, that was where that person was. Right. Right. And actually we open people up to change, including ourselves, when we recognize that our capacity for change can increase. Yeah. Right. If you look back at an event, like you're saying, and you're like, I actually appreciate it. That's what I knew then. I didn't do something I was proud of, but that's all I knew then. Now that I, I think there's a famous Maya Angelou quote where she says that now that I know better, I do better. Right. And the idea of if you don't accept that that's possible for you and others, that's what actually keeps you in prison because you keep saying, no, no, no, that's who you are.

1:04:50Right. That event 10 years ago is who you are and that's who you will ever be. So tough. That's so true. It's tough. But I mean, in social media, you're not allowed to change your mind. That also keeps people, especially celebrities and people in the public eye, like into this prison where it's like, no, no, no, no. What you said you believed, what you said 10 days ago, 10 years ago, you better still believe that or you're fake. And it's crazy because you're allowed to change your mind. And not only are you allowed to change your mind, you're supposed to change your mind. You're supposed to now have a new belief system.

1:05:25It's not like Rick Rubin talked about it with you And I thought it was so spot on It's like If you still like Have the same beliefs you did 20 years ago Upon learning new things Then you're not growing Like You know But I think that's why you gotta like Remove yourself from social media And what the world And the mob of the internet Stop trying to reconcile with them Reconcile with yourself And give yourself the permission To change your mind Yeah Yeah What's something you Think that you have Changed your mind on from let's say like maybe 10 years ago or maybe if you need to go back longer 20 years ago like i'll share one of mine mine was when i was young i didn't because i grew up in this mindset i believe that people who had money had to do something dodgy to get money yes because that's the language that i was raised in like we always heard that like oh yeah but he doesn't pay his taxes right if i saw a nice car and i'd be like my family would be like oh yeah yeah but they always do that dodgy business on the side and so in my head anyone who had money must be doing something wrong to have money and that not only did that limit me from appreciating others or admiring or learning from those people it blocked me from thinking that was good for me and possible for me right because you would have had to do because i would have had to do all your stuff and i thought i was a good person so i don't i'm not going to do anything i'll never do anything bad so so you'll never get money so you know yeah exactly and and then you all of a sudden start realizing where like you need to meet and this is why i think this is why i love the podcast because i want to show people or show sides of people or let people show sides of themselves where people can go oh that is possible i can be a rapper yeah and go to therapy like i can i can be you know i can be someone who makes songs about this this this and work on myself like that there is an and as opposed to like this you know finite yeah exactly so for me that was a big one for me of recognizing that you can make money with integrity you could use it in service you could it could be used proactively for purpose and that was a massive limiting belief and a negative belief i had what was something for you that you that you changed your mind on i think the big thing for me was um thinking that i was always right oh that's a good that's the biggest one for me because I was operating in this place once again of omnipotence just that I knew everything everything I did was right every decision I've ever made was right because look at my life clearly everything I've ever done was right and everything I say is right everything I know so I got to a place now where I'm so much more curious and I'm so much more humble in the sense of like, I'm open to being wrong because it's like, I believe what I believe, but I'm open to changing my mind.

1:08:17I'm open to someone else telling me their beliefs and me being open-minded and curious about it. I'm open to not always being right. And I think that is a much better like starting place. And that's, it's really interesting because everything we're saying is basically that paradox of like, we were saying, you want to be ambitious, but you got to have grace for yourself. you want to be you want to know your values but you want to be open to learning more and changing them and it's almost like everything is this and i think that's where we struggle the most because whether it was parenting whether it was school whether it was our background we were always told that there was one right answer right right like you had to get it's in the back of the book and it's in the back yeah exactly yeah yeah and it's like there's one right answer that everyone has to get to and if you're one mark off the answer then it's the wrong answer and the truth is that life is so variegated it is so gray it is as you just said even when you were talking earlier you were like there are so many layers to this yeah so it's like one answer is material stuff doesn't make you happy right but it's like when you broke down the layers of like actually why did my parents divorce make me unhappy it's because this and so you're like everything is so layered but i feel like we haven't i don't know if our brain our brain almost needs not an app but our brain needs the ability to be able to understand how everything is so multi-layered yeah but we're so it's so much easier to just put someone in a box and and go that's what i'm judging and just be more flexible yeah and i think uh atomic habits talks about like keeping your identity small and i thought it was so genius talks about you know there's athletes who their identity is i'm an athlete i'm a point guard and what happens when you're not playing basketball anymore though and they have this identity crisis and sometimes it gets really you know severe and he talks about how like instead of saying i'm an athlete how about saying i'm a hard worker who you know works well with teams and did it and so that you can still get you can still apply what your strengths are from being an athlete into other aspects of your life after being an athlete is done and i thought that was so powerful because it's so easy to get tied up into I'm a rapper or I'm a this or I'm a that and you start trying to like do things based off of the perception of yourself and I just think being more flexible you know and not being so rigid on who you are and just you know be open what's something that you were very I guess inflexible about unflexible about and now that you've become more flexible about in your identity i think being a man and being what i thought that means like being start not showing any emotion not showing like anything is affecting me um not receiving help doing it myself all these things like that to me is the most valuable thing that i'm now flexible on is because i've learned that there's strength in vulnerability and there's strength in being honest and their strength in collaboration you know learning from a positive male role model who's older than you and just can give you you know new wisdom new knowledge it's like their strength in collaboration i think we've talked about it in therapy there's this documentary that my therapist was talking about like and he was talking about how like alpha males who lead by dominance via like fear are often like exiled or killed and the ones who lead through collaboration and cohesion like like exhibit peace and like people love them and it's so funny because i think growing up like we would idolize those male figures who were the like just dominant, you know, and just invoke fear and all these things.

1:12:07And I'm just trying to help myself. And I'm also trying to help my fans. And then on a real, real specific level, I'm trying to be a lighthouse for young men that can look at me and say, you know what, I don't have to have it all figured out because he doesn't. And if he's allowed to make mistakes, I'm allowed to make mistakes i'm trying to get men and people to just be nicer to themselves have more compassion have more grace i love what you were saying about leaders because i feel like there is that perception that leaders have to be stoic and strong and cold yeah and it was really interesting to me because i'm still close with my monk teachers and like they're the kind of people that like would come and sit in the back on the floor of a class and listen to a young monk give a talk yeah and that was considered humility and the strength of a leader was like they weren't enforcing their authority right like they would always say like a real leader doesn't i would always hear them say this like a real leader doesn't demand respect they command it right it just it's natural for them they don't have to walk into the room and all eyes are on me they don't have to do something big to gain attention they actually would come on and put the spotlight on you right but it's interesting because that isn't our general belief around leaders we almost want to be pushed around and moved around to think someone's powerful right it's almost like if someone's kind and gracious you kind of think of them as like a soft a soft and a pushover yeah whereas and so i think there's so much rewiring that almost needs to go on into what is healthy leadership or i know and i'm not like the epitome of you know where neither should be looking but it's like i agree i think there's a rewiring that has to happen on what it means to be a man and i think men need to also stop looking for what it means to be a man from women and women need to stop even caring what men say when it comes to what does it mean to be a woman it's we don't know each other's experiences you know men need more male collaboration positive male collaboration positive role models and i think it's what you said earlier like knowing that we're wrong if we are sitting with someone to learn about them to actually go into it going i probably don't know right what you're going through right now right and i'm probably wrong right as opposed to like yeah i already know i've got you figured out like all men are like this all women are like this or or whatever it may be which which is kind of how we live in the world what does anything do you sleep well what keeps you up at night i sleep well now i got an aura ring oh nice yeah i like the aura yeah i'm uh i don't know i'm 30 now i'm trying to like be in bed by you know midnight you're living dude you'll get it i'm 30 i'm 36 this year and i've been i sleep at like 9 30 p.m 10 p.m wow that's beautiful yeah it's so good i've been going to sleep at like 9 50 getting like eight hours of sleep i feel like waking up going on walks i'm like who am i this is crazy how does it feel to have hit 30 and 31 soon if like even santiago this feels like my debut album because it just feels like this is a version of myself that has not been shown to the world and I still feel as young as I ever felt but I just feel like I know myself more I'm more comfortable with myself I'm living in more of my truth and authenticity and I'm excited like I just feel I feel blessed to make it out of my 20s alive you know without any like drug problems or anything because looking back, I'm like, I can see, you know, reasons for numbing the pain, you know?

1:15:48But yeah, I'm excited. I also love the, you know, I was watching you. I'm always following everything you're up to. And I love the way you talk to the fans when you're on stage and when you post from it, but also how you've been encouraging so many young artists to like jump on tracks and like be a part of the music through TikTok and everything else. And like, I think that's so dope, man, because I think there was one when you do it, Caitlin, right? Yeah. And it was just like, I just found that whole approach to be so true to how you came up and what you do and being able to pass it on. How does that feel to be able to now put people on?

1:16:24It's incredible. I feel like, I've said it before to my friends and people, you don't really feel the power of your platform or the power of your money until you give it away and see how it affects someone who maybe doesn't have that. it sort of like snaps you out of it for a second it snaps you into really what you've built but yeah i mean for me like the you know the approach on tiktok and putting caitlin on the song it's like it's a no-brainer like and that's where like i'm glad i don't have an ego in that sense in that field it's like if i'm putting up a song and someone is affected by it enough to want to do their own version and people love it and i think it sounds good why would i not just like make that a thing yeah just like this is the entertainment business and it's like meaning we're in the business of people enjoying what you're doing this is a cheat code they've already said that they enjoy it just give it to them it's like yeah i thought it was dope i loved it too yeah she's great very talented yeah very talented where you just mentioned the ego there where does the ego still block you sometimes like you're like that's somewhere where i don't have an ego where is i don't have a how would you describe the ego it's a great question because then i could answer yeah Yeah.

1:17:35It's a great, it's a great question. And that's why I want to give you a very thoughtful answer. I would say that the ego is any moment in which you create a false sense of security. So you're creating a false sense of being safe as opposed to something like arrogant, blah, blah, blah. Because those are all ultimately, it's a false self-defense mechanism. So like, for example, with my wife, it's like, if my wife tells me something that I know is blatantly true, my ego will even construct something where i'm like oh yeah but this happened before and this and it's like i'm constructing a true i'm what i'm saying is true it's factual but i'm still using it just to defend my ego yeah because i'm scared of just saying like you know that you're wrong yeah oh i do that all the time yeah yeah so the wrong part's true but like yeah where where do you create a false sense of safety in your life or a false sense of security i think trying to constantly save my mom emotionally and take on my family's emotions as my responsibility because without me doing that they're not safe is like a really big crux of like my stress you know and it's not on them it's on me and it's really me not like i'm not allowing my mom to pull herself out of the hole unless i go down there with her but that's really the opposite of empowering it's like i need to i need to let go but letting go so scary because if I feel like she's drowning or if I feel like my brother's drowning or my sister or whoever I love is drowning and I'm watching them drown, how am I supposed to not go in and save them?

1:19:28But the reality is sometimes they're just flapping their arms and their feet are on the ground and it just looked like they were drowning, you know? But... Dude, that is a great answer. Was it? That is a great answer. No, because you just... there was another definition is as when you asked me that question that came to my mind it's and whatever anyone's belief in god is when i say the word god it's like god universe whatever you personally choose but like the ego is when you choose to play god instead of wow play your part for god wow right okay so that was a good answer and that's why it's a great answer yeah because that is exactly what's happening it's like you're you're saying it's all on me right You're trying to be the universe, the almighty omnipotent.

1:20:13You used the word at the beginning. That's a God-like word, right? Where you're like, everything rests and depends on me, which means if I do it, I'm going to save it. And if I'm not there, it's going to fall apart. And that's ego because like you just rightly said, not only you can love someone and let them still grow by themselves and still be there for them, but you can't grow for them. But when you want to grow for someone instead of grow with them or help them grow. Yeah. And I think that that level of like omnipotence and that level of control also influences like lack of confidence. Because by me being like, let me handle it, really says, oh, so you think that if I handle it, you know, me being my mom, like, oh, you think if I handle it and don't let you help me, Russ, that like I can't do it, you know?

1:21:05And I'm just like, yeah, kind of. you know but i need to it's just really it's coming back to that place of my role in my identity i always played the role of helping and being responsible emotionally for people and saving them and fixing things and so it's just second nature i get very hyper vigilant when i when someone around me is upset because if you're upset it's my fault is what is what it gets like coded as and i'm trying to unlearn that but that's tough because like i said i feel um or when i was a kid the stakes seemed so high it felt like it was life or death if i don't help what if someone self-harms etc but now when someone's upset i still can't let go and and still be there for them but not feel like i have to go down into the hole with them because i'm still operating from that childlike role, you know?

1:22:01And I'm just working on understanding that like, they're okay, they're gonna be okay. Like, you know, no one's saying like, cut them off and don't talk to anyone. But it's like, you don't need to go down into the hole with them. Yeah, that's beautiful. And man, the album Santiago is inspired by Paulo Coelho's Alchemist. Yes. Which is a legendary, if you haven't heard of, I mean, you have to have heard of this book, everyone's listening. If you haven't, it's a legendary book by a legendary author. When did you first come across the book? and why did you feel like you wanted to bring music into the book?

1:22:32So Boogie is my best friend put that book in my hand when I was probably 17, 18. I met him last time. Did you? Yeah. You brought him with you last time. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's such a great dude. He's incredible. So he put like that book in my hand. Pretty sure, yeah. Napoleon Hill in my hand, you know, and crazy books to read at that age. And I was instantly like, it became like a Bible for me, you know? and there was just so many parallels that I found and I just, I've like opened it back up or, you know, a few times over the years, but for whatever reason, two years ago, summer of 2021, I decided to reread it.

1:23:08And you know how you can like read a book that you've already read, but you read it at a different time in your life and all of a sudden different things stick out and it resonates deeper. And so it just felt, it just spoke to me so deeply than even before. and I was like, man, I want to make a whole album that gives like, that parallels the book with my story. But what ended up happening was it was hard for me to just tell my story and not make an album about The Alchemist. And so that's why I ended up saying it was loosely inspired by The Alchemist because at the inception it was truly like, it felt like I couldn't write about my life, I had to write about Santiago's.

1:23:49But then Paolo Coelho says something in, I think, the foreword, where he says, Santiago is my journey, but it's your journey because one man's journey is everyone's journey. And that was the unlock for me and the permission for me to tell my story. And there is parallels within The Alchemist and my natural story, but it's not a complete side-by-side thing. It was a lighthouse for me. The wind and oasis. It was things that I related to, but I still had my own input on. But yeah, complete framework in Lighthouse. And he's a genius. Yeah. I sent him the album. What did he say? Yeah, he likes it. So it's like, that to me was like, this is insane.

1:24:31That's beautiful, man. What a beautiful homage to like, you know, one of the great writers. I was nervous because I'm like, it was so, so insane. I start making this album summer 2021. He doesn't follow me on Twitter. Randomly, like right when I start to make it, he follows me on Twitter. You know, he follows like 160 people. and I was like what are the odds that like while I'm making this but you know if you read the alchemist the signs and all these things I'm like all right clearly I'm supposed to be reading this or unless he's got the room bugged like I don't know what's going on um but I so I told right when he followed me I told him I was like yo I'm actually making an album about like loosely inspired by the alchemist and he was like that's so great keep me posted and he would like check in periodically like yo how's it coming and I was like he doesn't follow me anymore I don't think is personal but i love it i love it you just you took santiago down a different path yeah yeah yeah no that's beautiful man i love that i love that if there's one song russ you've been amazing this has been such a it's always great having you here i've got two questions for you one is is there anything i haven't asked you that you want to talk about because you're a friend and i i have to honor you with that question is there anything we haven't dove into that you're like yeah i want to talk about this or even if it's quieter and you're like it's on my heart right now i need to say the floor is yours no i think honestly i think we touched on everything yeah and i'm really really happy with how this went i appreciate you having me for real of course man i appreciate you i was looking you can come back on whenever you want like this is like it's it's i love conversations where they really are just like a back and forth and like that's how i feel with you i'm just like we can just talk about stuff and figure stuff out and not know the answer and yeah you know but if there's one i'm gonna say my one you can say yours what is the one track you want everyone to go stream after listening to this episode which one would you recommend i love you boy i was gonna say the same one yeah i think it's so aligned with today's conversation but the other ones that i recommend too that we discussed today fraud really powerful oasis highly recommend too as well and then of course go listen to the whole album russ you've been amazing to have back thank you i appreciate you so much as a as a human as a artist i i don't know anyone who's made mental health and music seemed that cool as you have which i love because it's it's my life's work but seeing you do it in your way yeah it's so empowering and i think there are a whole group of listeners that are gonna come up and just have different viewpoints because of you so i hope so man yeah no it's happening already it's happened and it's happening so but thank you man i appreciate you being on on purpose and listen it's a testament to like the reason why i always want to come back here it's because the energy you have and like the barriers down vibe you have where there's no judgment and the depth you have it was just such a no-brainer for me to like i always got to go back and sit with him because it's just such a like even the energy in this room it's just so curious and like safe you know so that's a testament to you thank you for saying that man i appreciate it anytime yeah anytime and everyone who's been listening watching wherever you are whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're driving to and from work, or whether you're at the gym, make sure you tag me and Russ in all your posts on TikTok, on Instagram.

1:27:36Let us know what resonated with you, what stuck out to you on Twitter, on threads. I love seeing the little clips. I love seeing how you're enjoying the podcast. It means the world to me. I know it means a lot to Russ. And tag us when you're streaming as well. Santiago, it's out right now. Thank you so much, everyone. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking the power of manifestation. Anybody who hasn't spoken to their parents or their brother, call them right now. Don't think you're going to have a chance to call them tomorrow or next week.

1:28:10That opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card I get 8 times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences experiences like music festivals and sporting events and that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve.

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