Sales Expert Shelby Sapp: The Simple Sales Framework You Can Use in Work, Money, and Relationships (Follow THIS Method to FINALLY Get The Life You Deserve)

25:14Keep it super simple. And then you pitch the price. Very simple. And when you pitch price, when you initially close someone, it's all about your energy. If you are almost anticipating an objection or anticipating a no, it's going to come off in your energy and someone's going to give you an objection or tell you no. You know, the metaphor of the Starbucks cashier. So when you go up to Starbucks and you're ordering your like medium vanilla iced latte or I guess grande day, vanilla ice latte. You go up to the window. What does the cashier rep do? He holds the Apple Pay thing in front of you and he's like, okay, awesome.

25:51It's going to be$7. And he's like turning around doing something else. No option, no like weird vibes. He's just like, here, this is how much it is. Okay, awesome. And you're almost like scrambling around for your credit card. You're like, oh, sorry, I should have had that out. Here you go. That's the energy that you need when you pitch price and when you close people is, hey, you have these problems. Here's a clear game plan, a clear solution. And here's how much it's going to take in order to get you there. Like, it's very simple. It's problem solution. And then I think what a lot of people forget to do is to solidify the sale, you know, because a lot of people will, you know, process a credit card and then just go straight to, you know, filling out paperwork or just acting like a robot.

26:32And they stop actually connecting with this person. Meanwhile, after you like run somebody's credit card. And after the initial close and they say yes, now you need to even further connect with people. So a little trick I have is you can positively future pace someone, which is I'm so excited for you to get started. A lot of people like to text me when they hit their first 10k months or when they lose their first four pounds or whatever you're selling. Would you mind keeping me in the loop for that transformation? Like I would love to be a part of your journey. Now somebody's like envisioning themselves, not only following through with the process, achieving the transformation, but also they see you as more of like an accountability coach rather than just the frame of a sales rep.

27:14Yeah. And it actually motivates them too. For sure. Because they're like, oh, now that I've committed to this, I could actually make that change. And I've actually committed to the process that makes that happen.

27:33Hey, it's Joel. And Matt from HowToMoney. if your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape. We've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the Men's Clinic at UCLA Health and host of the Mailroom Podcast.

28:11Each January, guys everywhere make the same resolutions. Get stronger, work harder, fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr. Steve Poulter, a psychologist with over 30 years experience helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never taught to name. In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof, why shame hides in plain sight, and how real strength comes from listening to yourself and to others. Guys who are toxic, they're immature, or they've got something they just haven't resolved.

28:46Once that gets resolved, then there comes empathy and some compassion. If you want this to be the year you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's underneath, listen to The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

29:24Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

30:16What's fascinating is that we're constantly being sold to, but we don't have to sell. Oh my gosh. Everything you buy has been sold to you. And I feel like whether it's the clothes that you're wearing, the coffee you drink, the coffee shop you go to, the laptop that you use, the phone that you carry, like we're constantly being sold to, but we find sales so scary. Does that, right? Do you see that? No, for sure. I mean, even the videos that you watch on social media, somebody's selling you on why they are worth your time out of every other content creator that you could swipe to. Whenever you hit the follow button, somebody sold you on why they should be on your for you page every day like i went to the tanning salon yesterday the most menial thing ever just a simple tanning salon he sold me on a 200 tan package and i don't even live here but i just loved his sales process and i love supporting other sales reps like when you learn sales you just see life in a completely different way where when you get sold to you almost appreciate it i fully agree you respect it by the way i love being sold to me too i love being sold to like if someone's because i also know when it's not working right oh there are shops that i'll go into where i'm like ready to buy right but then the experience is not great and then i won't buy and then there are other shops where i'm like oh i'm not sure if i want to spend any money today and someone's really trying to sell to me and i'm like oh i love this like they're really great at what they do i respect it yeah sales is all about like you know making someone feel important and listen to and that's why women are so good at sales is because women all day, what do we do?

31:48We call our friends. We talk to our friends. We hype our friends up. That's literally sales. Sales is hyping people up into, you know, pushing them into this higher version of themselves and making them really believe that they can achieve a transformation if they're given the tools to do so. That's sales. That's what you're doing. It's a whole new life when you learn how to sell. Yeah. Yeah. What's the best thing you've ever been sold? My pink G-Wagon. Okay. Who sold it to you? How did that process work? So I was kind of a lay down for it. I'm not going to lie. But I saw videos on it. It was this girl, car sales rep on social media.

32:30She's making videos of it. I get tagged in it a ton of times. I click on it. I'm like, oh, that's a cool car, but like, I don't really need a new car right now. I'm driving in Arizona, which is where I'm from. I look to my right and it's in the freaking window. And I'm like, out of all places, there's only one car that existed in the whole United States. I'm like, it's in Arizona? Like, what are the Kansas? So I go in there and the car sales rep, she shouts, Shelby. She's like, Shelby, I've been to so many of your masterclasses. I love you. I follow you on everything. And I think that initial connection and rapport.

33:07And then when she was showing me the vehicle, obviously she let me test drive it. But she was also, you know, telling me like, you could use this for content. This car has your name written all over it. And then she sincere closed me, which was turning the no away from the client to the product. And she made me have to say no to her, which I couldn't. So the sincere close is just like, I know you're going to buy a car at some point. I'm going to sell this to someone. If it's not you, it's someone else. But I want you to have it. And I want to be the one to help you get this dream car. so wow are you still friends with that oh yeah she's awesome yeah she's great yeah that's amazing yeah and it's and and obviously you're happy with your purchase which makes it better i think that's i think that's the part is like when you're not happy with the value that you received you're like oh wait a minute i was and you know i've been i've been to some fancy car spots trying to sell you some fancy cars and they're not some of them there's the technique that i read about talk to me about this because i saw this on social media and i've experienced it a few times okay where these fancy places try and make you feel less than so that you buy.

34:15I don't like that because it feels uncomfortable. Right. So it is a real phenomenon. So I call it the Louis Vuitton sales technique. It's not specific to Louis Vuitton, but it was just a name I picked on. But yeah, so one, they hire attractive sales reps. And two, they train those attractive sales reps to be a little bit dismissive to you when you're in the store. And this is a true thing because as a client, when you walk in and somebody's not all over you, hey, what are you in here for? What do you want? Blah, blah, blah. Did you see this jacket? You almost feel a little bit like you're trying to earn a sales rep's time because you want to prove that you belong in the store.

34:51And so what are they doing? Well, it's actually pretty smart, even though I would say that's slightly manipulative, but what they're doing, it's smart is they know their brand has weight. And so they know kind of the feeling that they have with the brand and that they are so, you know up there and sophisticated so they make you assign yourself to feel like you deserve to be with the brand how do they do that by buying a bag so you almost feel like you know when a sales rep does come up to you oh i'm i promise you i have money like i am a buyer and then makes you want to buy more things yeah and it's and it's sad that we fall for that right i think a lot of this a lot would you say that people will actually spend more mindfully if they understood sales 100 % Talk to me about that So when you learn sales You understand the sales rep's perspective So you're a little bit more cognizant of the techniques that they're using And so if it's something you actually want And the sales rep's amazing Makes you want to buy more stuff Because you're like, okay, I respect the game I appreciate it and I do want this, let's do it But when it's something that you don't really want Or maybe it's something you do want But a sales rep is being rude to you Or trying to make you feel less than you understand the tactics and the way that they're approaching the sale.

36:08And you're like, why would you do that? You know, I wanted this. I am a buyer, but the way that you're being dismissive or the way that you're just trying too hard turns me off. And so sales is all about like push and pull. And so a buyer's brain will literally turn off when you try to sell too hard or when you try to use these cringy, pushy, aggressive tactics, because in their brain, It's like, if you have to try so hard, obviously what I'm getting sold is not that valuable because why would you have to try so hard? So in fact, the pull method actually works a little bit better, which is when sales reps kind of take a step back and they're like, well, I mean, I don't know if you need this right now.

36:47Like, tell me about what you're going through and we can kind of figure it out together. Yeah. Where do you think confidence comes from? You're so confident. You talk about this idea of being able to turn it on, like, you know, just switch on. How do people access that? because I think so many people today feel like a smaller version of themselves. We shrink, we get shy, we get scared. Like you said, just before you're about to say the amount, you kind of hesitate because you're scared about it. And it's not, you do believe in the product. You do care about what you're doing, but you also kind of care about the other person.

37:16Where does that confidence come from? Everybody thinks that you have confidence and then you do big things when it's flip-flopped. You do big things. You put yourself out there. You're scared. And then you build confidence. Like, I know I look like this girl that's super confident, all these things, whatever. But when I first started, that was literally so opposite from the case. Like, I had so much anxiety, I could not talk to people. Or someone would ask me, you know, how's your day going? And I would stutter and think about it for the next, like, five to seven business days. Like, I literally hated it.

37:47I was just insecure. And I didn't do enough big things in order to have something to be confident about. So someone told me, you know, sales will make you confident. I got into sales. I got literally doors slammed in my face. Cops called on me, the neighborhood watch, like name it. But going through experiences like that and going through what I call the suck and coming out on the other side, you know, with monetary things to show, but also confidence, that kind of data points, those kinds of data points that you have where you can say, I deserve to be confident because I did this, this, and this.

38:27I deserve to be confident because I got told no 10 times in a row and the 11th said yes. Now I'm more confident that every other person I talk to, if they say, no, that's fine, I'm going to go get somebody else to say yes. Yeah. It's doing hard things. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Everyone always thinks you somehow feel confident in your mind and then you take action and it's completely the opposite way around. You're spot on. It's take action, do uncomfortable things, do hard things, do big things, do scary things. And then all of a sudden confidence comes to you. Right.

38:59And because you have evidence, you have proof. Exactly. You have a list of things that like, Hey, I, I did all these things. And it's not the external achievement. It's the fact that you put yourself in that position, whether it was getting rejected 10 times, moving out your house, going out there and taking on a job you never did, being out of your comfort zone, like all of that builds confidence. But you know, when someone's sitting there and going like, Shelby, I want to be better at sales. I get you, but like, I just don't know how to start. What would you say to that person who says, I don't know how to start?

39:29I would say you don't have to. You don't have to know how to start. You just have to do it. And by do it, I mean, you need to learn everything that you possibly can. And again, good for you. It's all on social media. It's right on your phone. But the number two is start and know that you're going to suck. Like half of confidence is knowing that it's going to suck in the beginning. And you need to know that you are going to get rejected. You're going to mess up. But plot twist is if you do that enough time and if you get enough reps in, that's how you build true confidence. So it's not the whole fake it till you make it, but I mean, kind of.

40:07It's like you have to believe you are the best. And then with enough data, like you kind of just said, you can truly, truly know that you are the best when you can look back at your experience. Yeah. We found some questions on social media that we think would be good. So I want to hear your take on this. What's something people struggling with money think is smart, but actually keeps them broke? Spending money on networking events. Talk to me about that. I should be pro networking, right? No. So I have a very kind of controversial, but specific take on networking. So I think, you know, majority of people that show up to random networking events, I'm talking the ones that are just random cocktail hours, random people in your city.

40:48A lot of the people that show up to those networking events are looking for people external to cling on to because they don't have anything to offer. So I want you, instead of to focus all of your energy on networking, because I used to be the same. What rooms can I get into? Who can help me with this? Like, look into yourself first, build up your skillset first, figure out a way to provide real value to other people and become someone that other people want to network with. Like I was always the girl dying to be in group chats with people like you or people like my business partners or people like, you know, that I am currently in group chats with right now.

41:26I was dying to be in those, but you need to figure out a way to be someone that other people are dying to be in a group chat with so instead of focusing too much on putting your energy out into how do I figure out these other people put that energy into yourself and when you truly have you know something going for you or you truly solve people's problems the right people will reach out to you because people that are worth networking for don't spend every day at different cocktail hours just trying to help people for fun. It's just not reality. But that's different from specified networking, which is if you have a purpose of going to it, you know, if you're a real estate professional and you're going to a real estate event, amazing.

42:10If you are a closer and you're going to a closer event, amazing. A life coach going to a life coach event, amazing. But I think the general networking cocktail hours are just a waste of time, money, and energy that you should be putting into yourself. Yeah. I love the idea that your reputation precedes you in the sense of, and I think people often get confused that you have to have some big brand for that. My friend started his content creator journey more recently. He has like 6 ,000 followers, but the video content he's creating is so high quality that people are introducing him to people because his level of research, his communication skills, it's only a matter of time before he gets to a hundred thousand followers and a million and whatever else it may be.

42:51but right now I think people often think oh yeah but Shelby I've got to have like a million followers for someone to notice me it's like no you could have 5 ,000 followers 6 ,000 maybe 10 ,000 but because of the content you're creating and the way you're communicating people will look at you and be like oh you're the stylist that comes front of mind you're the coach that comes front of mind you're the uh car salesperson who comes front of mind like you don't have to have millions of followers for someone to notice you and I think that's a really important part as well and I think a big thing to, you need to be what we call the pattern interrupt.

43:25So in sales, a pattern interrupt means someone that breaks the pattern because 99 % of salespeople sound the same. They sound like robots. So if you want a different result than every other salesperson that gets denied, you need to do something different. So AKA break the pattern of the cringy sales rep pitches that people hear. But in life, you need to break the pattern. You need to be different and do different things than everybody else in order to stand out. Like your friend who made, you know, the most high quality videos, he was probably a lot different than everybody else who's just putting mass amount of videos out there to where somebody recognized that.

44:03Absolutely, yeah. He's really thought about it. It's very specific. And so people in that specific niche are paying attention to him, even though he's not got - Because he's an expert. Exactly, exactly. He's actually good at what he's talking about. It's absolutely it. Okay, what's the biggest, this is another one. Okay. What's the biggest mindset difference between someone making$50 ,000 and someone making$500 ,000? A year or a month? That's a Shelby question right there. Let's start with a year. I would say exactly that. I would say the$50 ,000 a month person thinks that they're on top of the world and that, you know, that's all there is to life.

44:40And I think the$500 ,000 a month person knows that you're uncapped. There is no cap on what you can do in this world. None. And I think that's the biggest thing that sales teaches you is you eat what you kill. There's no floor, right? But that's also so freeing because there's no ceiling. Genuinely, if you want to make more money, you just talk to more people and close more deals. Like that should excite you. that should be like oh my gosh there's all of this money to make in the world and there's proof of so many people making so much money why not me that was my biggest thing I always like heard of these people on social media making so much money and I'm like you you make that amount of money like if you can do it I can do it and I think that blind level of optimism is what somebody making $500 ,000 a year or a month has because they stepped outside of the scope and the realm of reality.

45:43And they truly just said, I'm not playing by everybody else's rules. I'm doing my own thing or I'm doing my own thing on the side, or I'm going to pull myself out of this because I know that I can do it. So for example, if you're talking in years perspective, I think the$50 ,000 a year type of person just sees money as a side thing or they see, you know, they are not the business. They are working for someone versus the$500 ,000 a year person. They know that they are the business and they know that whatever they do in this life, it will turn to gold because they are good. So that's why you need high income skills in order to be that person that you can step into anything and produce.

46:25Yeah. And I think the truth is that high income skill matters even when you're an employee. Because if you have a high income skill, that person never wants to lose you. And therefore, they're going to keep investing in you and keep giving you promotions and raises because they know they can't live without you. 100%. So even if you're not an entrepreneur, if you're part of someone's team and you have a high income skill and you add lots of value to that place, people are never, ever going to take a risk. I mean, you're an employer. I'm an employer. It's like, I don't want to lose my best people.

46:54Like I would never take that risk. Replacing people sucks. It's so hard. Yeah. When you find someone who's really amazing what they do. You want to pour into them. Exactly. Yeah. You want to invest in them. You want them to grow with you. You're excited about it just as you are in love in one sense where it's like, yeah, I want to see what we could achieve together. Exactly. But I think that goes back to like the person who's making$50 ,000 a year and is completely fine with that. They just see it as a job and they won't go above and beyond versus the person that maybe their paycheck doesn't reflect$500 ,000 a year, but they believe that they are in a$500 ,000 a year opportunity if they act like it.

47:30And so when you go above and beyond, people notice that. So every single ounce of hard work that you put into yourself right now, maybe it might not benefit you now, but it will benefit you dividends in the future. It's just, you have to put it in, in order to get it out. Absolutely. Great answers. All right. If someone wants to go from making a hundred K to 300k in one year. Specify the year. Yeah. What's the 30, 60, 90 day plan? From 100k to 300k? Yeah. In one year. Are they working for someone or working for themselves? Let's do both examples. So let's do someone who's working for someone and then let's do someone who's working for themselves.

48:08Someone who's working for someone. So I would say that you need to job hop. You're never going to have, you know, a$200 ,000 raise in two, in three years. Like it's just not going to happen. So the way that you would do it is you would go to different employers and you would kind of like pin them between each other. So the company that you're working for now versus another one, right? You go to their competitor or somebody in a different niche and you show them the value that you provided for the other company because you have data points behind it. For example, I helped X company grow to X revenue in X amount of time given these tools, but I feel like I can go even farther given these right tools lend me the ability in order to do it.

48:50I would job hop if you are in a company. I think that's very sound advice actually. For sure. Yeah. But if you are on your own, if you want to go from a hundred to 300, the very first thing is mindset because $300 ,000 a year, that's a completely different mindset than somebody making just a hundred. So you need to, I would say, be the best and get paid to be the best. That's how you're going to to do it, but also look at scaling yourself. If you have your own business, you know, create mini me's of you or hire employees, which is hard, you know, going from 100 to 300, trusting other people to do the quality work that you do, but you need to hire superstars, pay them very well.

49:32And the time that you get back from hiring other people and duplicating them, work on growing your business, growing different avenues of it. And then I would also say content plays into both of them. I think content can amplify anything you do. If you work in a job, you can make content around that to where other companies want to hire you because you now have value as distribution because of your content, because you're selling yourself through your content. And if you own your own business, I don't have to explain that. Content will help no matter what you are pushing in your content. Yeah, I think that's really sound advice for both of them.

50:06I think you're spot on that. you're not going to suddenly catapult inside of an organization that much. And if you are running your own thing, it's what you said earlier as well. Sometimes you have to triple your output. Like you will have to find ways to, if you're trying to go from a hundred to 300 K, that means you've got to look at how many people you've sold to, how many customers or clients you have. You're going to have to find a way of tripling your failure rate because that's going to get you that same success rate. And that could mean more people. It could mean more hours yourself as well.

50:35Right. So like a good example is like you don't have to start a business in order to be on your own and do, you know,$300 ,000 a year. There are so many side hustle type jobs that you can do without taking a risk, you know, of starting your own business, pouring a ton of money into it, and also without posting content. What other examples of jobs are there in sales that you think are giving people opportunity to really take their finances into their control? So door-to-door sales is where I started out. And it's amazing. You will walk out with the best sales skill set because you're in person.

51:13You're getting rejected to your face. It is more gritty. It is more rejection-based because you are the first person they see and you're also closing the deal. You have to be outside in 100-degree heat every single day. It's not the best for lifestyle wise. But if you're young, like a college person, I would definitely think about door-to-door sales. There's also insurance sales. I would say that's good if you want to recruit. They make a lot of their money from recruiting other people to do it. There's also med sales, tech sales, marketing agencies have sales teams. There's software sales. There's a bunch of different sales industries.

51:51So I would just urge people to think about like what their lifestyle is and what would be best according to your lifestyle. So there's, you know, the gritty in-person, you know, grind sales like door-to-door in insurance. But then there's also the more corporate, which is like office job type sales, where you work for a larger company, you have quotas, you have minimums, all these things. But then there's freelance sales, which is like setting and closing. And this is where you are your own closing business. And you can talk to someone for 30 minutes and they want to buy, you get a commission off of it.

52:23If people can make this much money in sales, why isn't everyone doing it? One, because it's a limiting belief that you have to do the right thing in life in order to have success. Like people brainwash you from a young age that you need to go to school for 16 years, you know, go to college, get, you know, a general education degree. Then you get into the workforce, which is a general job because you have general education. and then you're working a job because you have debt to pay off, let alone being, you know, maybe you don't even get to get a job or you might be replaced by AI soon. So a lot of people think that that's like the normal path, but I think people are kind of starting to get more keen to the idea of doing other things.

53:04But then I would also say it's mindset. Sales has taught me that 80 % of people's mindsets just suck. They're very self-limiting. Like a lot of people won't even put themselves in the position to do something on their own because they're afraid that they're not going to be able to do it. And so that mindset itself is proof that you won't be able to do it. So that's when I say you have to change the mindset first before you actually do it. And then also rejection. People aren't, you know, used to getting told no nowadays. It's very, you know, instant gratification. If you want to look something up, you can have it on your phone right then.

53:44If you want to order something, it's out your door in two days. Sales is a game that you play over a long period of time. because in the very beginning, you're putting so much hard work into it, but you're still building the skillset. So you might not see it reflected in your paychecks for a couple of days, maybe a week or two, but at some point, all of the work that you did in the beginning will compound results for you over time, but you have to go through that period of the suck. Yeah. What are the mindsets you're seeing that are holding women back, especially? to me. They don't believe that they deserve to do something different.

54:21And that can get deep. And no one will come out and say, you know, I don't believe that I'm, you know, can do this. But it's on a more subconscious level where people do not believe that they could achieve something. Maybe it's because of what their friends tell them or what their boyfriend tells them. Or, you know, maybe you got fired from your last couple jobs. Like you can focus on negative data points in order to pull a negative story. But what you need to do is you need to pull the positive data points, even if there's only a few, but focus on the positive data points of your life that pushes a positive story of, no, no, I do deserve this.

54:56And I deserve this because of all of the data points that I can look back at. So everything that happens to you in your life, if you're wanting more like tangible advice from this, everything that happens in your life, Not just in sales, just life. You can pull a negative story from it or you can pull a positive story from it. Focus on the positive data points in order to believe a positive story. Yeah, yeah. I always say everyone can tell two stories of their life. For sure. They could be like, I got all these opportunities. My life changed. I'm at the love of my life. Like, look at where it is now.

55:27Or at the same time, and it's equally true, you could say, this person screwed me over. This person tried to sue me. This person, whatever it may be. For sure. And both are true. Both happen. Oh, for sure. But it's like, which one am I going to focus on? And even some of the most, you know, horrific things that have happened in my life are very scary. I always think to myself right then and there, this is going to be a great story to tell my kids one day. Or this is going to be something great that I'm going to be able to talk about on a podcast or on stage. You know, so everything that you go through, you have to believe that it is not happening to you.

55:58It's happening for you. And maybe it's a negative in the moment, but it could be a positive in the future. and this is not you know something big like getting sued or getting broken up with it could be you're driving on the freeway and you miss your exit yeah you know it's oh i miss my exit i'm so stupid i'm gonna be late people are gonna hate me i always do this no it's hey i miss my exit thank god because maybe i would have gotten into a car crash or gotten pulled over but because i miss that exit now i'm just gonna add on two more minutes to my time i'd rather take two minutes of redirection, then, you know, what could have happened?

56:40When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable? Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince's Music is Therapy, a new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist that asks one simple question. Who do you want to be? And what's the song that can take you there? Music changes what you feel. And what you feel changes what you do, right? That moment where a song shifts something inside you, that's where transformation starts. This year, I'm talking to experts across every area of life. Like personal finance icon Gene Chatzky, New York Times journalist David Gellis, relationship legend Dan Savage, human connection teacher Mark Groves, and the man who shaped my ear more than anyone, Questlove.

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58:49chelby we wanted to put your sales skills to the test in the room okay so i'm gonna ask you to sell a few things to me and i'm also doing research for myself so the first thing i'm gonna ask you to sell to me is mine and my wife's uh tea this is ours she can grab it the drink and so i'd love for you to sell this to me so that we can learn how to sell it better okay try it for me oh yeah okay

59:16What do you think? It's very tasty Okay. Why would you even want, what is this, an energy drink? It's a calming drink. Like it's a balancing drink. Okay. And what does it do for you? It helps you de-stress your mind. It helps you bring back your body into regulation. It helps calm you. Okay. When do you crack one of these open? When do you need that? I probably open it midday. Like probably like my midday pick-me-up or like around 3, 4 p.m. when you start here in that slump. Okay. It's got enough caffeine, same caffeine in it as the amount of natural amount in tea. Okay. Oh, wow. So it's not energy.

59:50It's not like 200 milligrams of caffeine. It's only like 24, 25. I saw somewhere, you know, tea reminds you of talking with your mom or something. Tell me more about that. Yeah. So tea was, when I used to get back from school, my mom would sit me down and she'd pour me a cup of tea, but it would be like a hot cup of tea. And she'd ask me how my day was. And so like every day that was our ritual. She was super busy, but that was a moment that we sat down together and had that much moment. Okay. So tomorrow comes around like three, four, when you have your little crash, if you don't have one of these, what are you doing?

1:00:21What's the substitute? Well, it would be something unhealthy. Like this is only five, this is only, what is it? It's five calories and zero grams of sugar. I would usually have reached for something sugary and put sugar into my body, which I try and stay off of refined sugars. So yeah, caffeine and heavy sugars. And when you do that, what's the result? less energy, less motivation. Like, you know, it's like, you feel like you've been in the gym all week, but what's the point? Cause you're just like putting rubbish into your body, maybe more sugar spikes and then low moods and down points. So what does that like mean for you though?

1:00:54If you're not able to show up with the energy or with, you know, knowing that what you're putting in your body isn't necessarily the best, like, what does the crash actually mean if you were to go through that tomorrow? I mean, in one sense, you could argue that it's like, it is whatever it is, but I think I really appreciate being alert all the time and being focused and making sure that my snacks are not unhealthy. Right. You don't want to live a life that just is whatever it is. You want to live a life where you're at your best, right? So that's kind of what I'm getting at is it's not about, you know, this is an energy drink or, you know, adapt, an adaptogenic tea.

1:01:27It's about the result that it can have for you on a day-to-day basis. When someone like you, you need to be on, right? So my question to you is if you tomorrow could show up your best self for podcasts, for your work, for your clients, what would that be worth to you to show up as the best version of yourself? Probably everything, right? Okay. Well, I'm not asking for everything. I'm just asking for five bucks. There you go. That was really good. I love it. I love how personal it was. Yeah. So it's, and I'm glad that we did that because I want a lot of people to understand selling something, the wrong thing to do would have been, okay, awesome, Jay.

1:02:03So, this is obviously the can's super pretty. I'm reading that it has 150 milligrams of this. It's manufactured here. It is the best quality drink that you could have right now. Buy it. Yeah. I didn't know what I was walking into in this context. I don't know anything about your day-to-day life. I don't know anything about what you would substitute if you didn't do this. And I didn't know. Obviously, this is going to give you energy, but it's what that energy does for you, which in your case prevents crashes when you're trying to show up as your best self. So you really need to step back and gather context and ask questions.

1:02:37That's literally all sales is. It's what I just did. It's just asking questions about what somebody actually wants. And if it fits into it, and I knew exactly when it fit into it because you said, you know, I would crash and I don't want to crash when I'm trying to run like a high level lifestyle, right? When I'm running a business, having family, right? So that's what people buy is they don't buy what it is. They buy the transformation. So your job, couple of different steps is one, be the pattern interrupt, which is instead of getting straight to selling, just ask, have a conversation. And then it's figure out the leverage points, which I did that by asking you questions.

1:03:12Then it's provide value and provide a clear solution, which is this. And then it's also, you know, anchoring someone before you price drop. So what did I ask? I said, what would that be worth to you. It'd probably be worth everything, right? To show up as your best self. Well, I'm not asking for everything. I'm just asking for five bucks. And so it makes it a little bit more attainable. Yeah. It's such a good demonstration. Let's do that with something that I know less about. I want people to see that version. So like maybe - You got a pen? Oh yeah. There you go. Okay. Hopefully someone's not chewed on that.

1:03:45Not me. Is this the only pen you have around you? Do you want a nice one? Give me every pen that you have in this room. Can I go find a nice one? wants it yeah we did it with a product that i know a lot about right and that obviously you want right obviously you want this product right so that's kind of an easy sell right no no no but i think the way you i still think what you did was brilliant i'm just saying it'd be good to yeah yeah let's do it again yeah let's do it again okay do you have any other pens in the room or is this it that's it okay is that bad do you want nicer one this is fine okay this is every pen though right there's no other hiding no no okay awesome step number one create a need no i'm oh yeah but let's see that's good that's funny okay do you want paper I don't want you to have to write no no no this is fine okay want to play tic-tac-toe if you win I'll Venmo you$100 okay if you lose nothing happens and I just give you all your pens back okay the only trick is where's your pen I don't have one well I'm selling all of these pens for$5 each I will let you choose basically$5 entry fee in order to only have an upside in order to win a hundred dollars which one would you like the red or the white one obviously this is a joke you guys right so it's obviously a joke but what it is is it's another concept of a pattern interrupt and sometimes when you're selling something you know people expect you just to try to sell a pen when that's the whole trick so the whole trick of is and i'll show you a little bit of a more tangible way to sell a pen after this but the trick with the time old sell me this pen is everybody wants you just to start selling the pen right oh this pen is so amazing it's all black monochrome signature engraving right here it never runs out of ink like it'll look nice on your desk like nobody cares about your pet right like literally nobody cares so what you would do is you would one like break the pattern be different what i just did is obviously a little bit of a joke but it is different yeah and then number two with this is i'm selling an experience yeah i'm like hey play me the upside is i'll literally right now Venmo you a hundred bucks.

1:05:43But the entry fee, I created a need by gathering all your pens, even in the other room. The entry fee is$5. Do you want to play or not? Well, obviously someone would probably take a$5 to get a hundred dollars. And then the other thing is too, like if you just create something that's clear, super simple, a lot of people try to overcomplicate the sales process. It's just problem solution. Your problem was, you know, you probably wanted to play, but you didn't have any pens. And my solution was giving you back one of your pens. So the right way to actually sell the pen though. If anybody ever asks someone that's watching, how do you sell the pen?

1:06:16It's a trick to see if you are a trained sales rep. So don't do this. This is just a joke, right? But what you would do is you would hold the pen and you'd be like, I mean, why would you even want a pen? Like, what do you do for work? Yeah. What do you do for work? I have a podcast. I write books and I coach people. Okay. Do you write books? Probably on a laptop though, right? Everything's online so what would you even use a pen for uh yeah barely use a pen maybe randomly to sign checks but like very rarely oh to sign checks very rarely because now it's docusign and for sure yeah so take me through signing a check is that someone's paycheck or is that to pay for something or maybe it's like to pay for something but like so rare i can't even remember the last time i did it and it's always one of those things where it's like you don't need a pen until you need a pen right yeah exactly or maybe i doodle while i'm on the phone yeah sometimes i'm just like you know playing around so on the phone with someone where you're trying to like write down notes sometimes i still like writing down notes yeah by hand probably yeah okay so somebody calls you up and they give you amazing tangible advice for your podcast or your next book and in that moment you don't want to go on your notes app because you're trying to like stay focused stay concerned right you reach over for a pen kind of like how we just did and this guy pops up yeah It looks like this.

1:07:35Yeah, you don't want that pen. How do you feel writing down million-dollar advice with this pen? Probably not the best, right? Yeah, not great because I'm thinking someone in the office is chewed on it. Chewing on it, right? Do you want to take down million-dollar advice with a 50-cent Sharpie pen that's been chewed on? Probably not, right? Probably not, yeah. But then this pen is on your table instead. You know, instead of that one reaching for it, maybe it has gum on it because it's been in the bottom of a backpack. Instead, this pen always stays on your office. No matter what. even though you'll probably never use it because everything's on DocuSign, but when you do need it, it'll be right there.

1:08:07It's not about the pen. It's about peace of mind. That when that one person does call you, you won't be frantic trying to search for another pen. It'll just be right there and you can just write down all the advice. So I would sell basically like your leverage point was I don't need a pen, but I could, right? It's like I don't really use it. So I did the leverage of insurance. You know, it's like you might not need one tomorrow, but when you do need one, you're going to really need one and you want to have the peace of mind that it will be there. So what did I do? So I asked questions in order to understand context of what you do for work, why you would even want it, what the scenario would be if you had a pen that you didn't like versus a pen that you loved and just looked at it and felt super confident about writing, you know, that next book or writing somebody's advice down or, you know, signing someone's paycheck is a big deal as well.

1:08:58Hiring someone, first impressions matter. So you kind of kind of extrapolate whatever you are selling from like the actual object and you broaden it out into something that somebody actually cares about which for you it's peace of mind in order to be prepared at every point in time yeah what's impressive is at no point did you sell me the pen no none like at no point were you like look at the color look it will make you you didn't even try and sell me the prestige of it like you weren't like oh if you hold this pen everyone's gonna think you're fat because i don't care about that because nobody cares because nobody cares and And it's so interesting because I think we're constantly trying to think we know what the other person wants.

1:09:35So like if someone like me walks into wherever, you're assuming I want to be certain things or if someone sees you walking and they assume that, oh, well, Shelby's character profile must be this, this, and this. It's like, I don't know. Like until I talk to you. Yeah. There are so many times, and this is actually my biggest pet peeve when I'm getting sold is somebody will look at you and make a stereotype out of it. It's like I walk into a car dealership and people think, I don't know what I'm talking about. They think that daddy's just going to swipe, you know, I'm going to use my dad's credit card to buy some vehicle or, you know, they can charge me a bunch because I know nothing about the sales process.

1:10:13When in reality, if a sales rep, instead of making assumptions, just stopped and just asked, you would actually get to know people and then you can help them through simple problem and solution. That's why everybody thinks sales is manipulation and trying to push things on people. it's not it's literally just taking a step back asking questions getting to know somebody and if it works then you can plug and play your solution and empower them in order to make a decision that will genuinely change their life when you're actually in practice with it like when you see it like what you were just doing you're like yeah at what no point did i feel forced at no point did i feel like and if i and if i had said to you no i never use the pen i don't need it at all you probably would be like okay awesome you're not a qualified guy then right exactly yeah and that And I think that's partly it as well, where it's like, yeah, if I would have closed the conversation, whereas I was actually thinking.

1:11:02I mean, I probably rolled out an objection a couple of times. Yeah, yeah. Well, when somebody gives you like straight off the bat, not interested, what they're doing is it's called a brush off objection. It's not a true objection. What do you mean you're not interested? You haven't even like seen what we have to offer. So it's, I wouldn't say that, but that's what I'm thinking, right? Obviously they're not interested, but they're not interested in the time spent with you rather than what you have to offer. so when they brush you off you brush it right back off yeah no for sure i'll just take two seconds out of your day to talk about xyz you literally just keep going and if somebody is a qualified buyer they will take the time to actually talk to you and you can roll that objection into more time which then you can sell can i have a drink of that one of course yeah of course you can do you like that flavor i do i like another thing i think it's a blue one that you gave me The peach one or...

1:11:51I thought it was blue. Was it blueberry? Oh, no. We don't have any blueberry anymore. We have peach, tropical... I don't think it was blueberry. It was like some berry. It was a raspberry or it was cherry lime. It was raspberry, I think. Should we get you that one? I think this will be good. Okay, fine. If you want that one, I can get you that one. But they're really good. Thank you. You're the best. Do they not have caffeine in them? They do have caffeine with the same amount of cup of tea. So there is caffeine in it, but it's a natural amount. That's a decaf one though. Oh. Yeah. You want one with caffeine?

1:12:23Yeah. So we need to get you the raspberry one. That's the one that has caffeine. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You're like, I need some caffeine. I'm like, oh, nevermind. Yeah. No purpose. We have caffeine and decaf ones. Okay. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. All right. So we're going to test you on the objections. You got to know them. Okay. The first one is it's too expensive. So a lot of people think that, you know, you're comparing a price versus nothing, right? But the price is what you pay today. The cost is what you pay years down the line when you don't solve the issue. So you said your business is bleeding$15 ,000 a month revenue, right?

1:12:58Yeah. So you don't just like walk away and just, you know, pay nothing. It's actually comparing, you know, a$5 ,000 solution to your problem versus a cost of, you know, 60 grand down the line over a couple months. So which one are you more comfortable paying the price or the cost? Right. Yeah. It's a good one. You just reframe it. Yeah. And it is good because half the time that person hasn't done that reframe either. All right. I need some time to think about it. Do you need quantity of time or quality of time? Quality. It's like I really need to like digest what you've told me today. Yeah. I'm glad you said that.

1:13:31A lot of people think they just need quantity of time, which is, you know, a couple days, weeks, whatever. But few people actually understand, which I'm glad you do, that you need quality time, which is the quality of information that's in front of you, but also quality time to sit down and make a well thought out decision, right? I'm literally the same way. But like I said, we have 20 minutes left of intentional time on this call. You're busy. I know as soon as you shut this laptop off, it's like you got kids, you got to run the business, all the things. So we have 20 minutes left of intentional time.

1:13:59And I've got all of the information right here in front of us in order to make a well decision. I need to chat with my wife. And you will. You're either going to come to her though with a problem or a solution. You know, a problem of, hey honey I really want to do this but I don't know if I should and da da da or hey honey I found somebody that can really help me solve my problem that I've been wanting I really trust it and I thank you for your support which one do you think would go over better with your wife probably the solution right also another one I love for that and I've never talked about this either is the flip-flop so for example if somebody tells me you know I need to talk to my husband or my wife I'll just be like no problem.

1:14:36Can I challenge that? Yeah. Okay. Awesome. So If instead instead instead of it being me and you talking What if it was me and your wife? You know and she came to me and she's saying i'm going through this this and that and I Finally found someone that I think can solve my problem and I really want to do it But I want to check with my husband first Would you support her in making that decision? Yeah, you probably would right? So is it fair to say that she'd probably support you in the same way that you support her? Right and this works really well if you're talking to a woman if you, instead of saying the husband thing, because she'll be like, well, I want him to talk to me, you know?

1:15:09It works really well if you flip it and you're like, let's say it's your best friend, you know, and she's sitting here going through this, going through the same thoughts. Would you tell her to do it? You know, probably would, right? Well, is it fair to say other people would probably tell you to do it too? So putting people kind of like outside of themselves and looking at the situation from an unbiased third-party perspective and being like, what would you tell that person to do right now? Because you're saying to me that you really want to do it, you'd probably say to do it, right? Let's do it.

1:15:35So. Yeah. I gave you two on that one. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. And now's not a good time. For to talk or to make a decision about something? I've just got so much going on. Like I've got family stuff. I'm like exhausted. I just, I just don't think that was a good time. Can I challenge that? I don't know. I just, I don't know if I have the bandwidth for it right now. No, for sure. And I'll just make it easier for you. Cause you know, the bandwidth to think about things over a long period of time by yourself. That's how stress gets created, right? So I'll just clear that up for you. So when you say you don't have the time to think about it and to process the bandwidth, a lot of people think that they need to be in a situation where they have every single ounce of intentional time.

1:16:18But in fact, the best decisions are made in the gray area. Some of the best companies were started in the recession. It's because while everybody else is moving forward, you need to be the person that maybe takes a step back. But while everybody else is sleeping, you need to be the person that makes a decision in order to get better. So what do you want to be right now? Someone that just follows along with what everybody else is doing or someone that actually moves forward when everybody else is kind of just moving along. Because are you going to wait for life to happen to you or are you going to make your life happen for you right now?

1:16:46And sometimes people may even take them and be like, I still need time, but you've helped them think about it in a different way. So I always start every objection with, I hear you, can I challenge that thought? Because it allows you to separate the objection from you. I'm not saying, can I challenge you? You know, it's not me versus you. It's like, hey, can I challenge that thinking for a second? And it's like a lot of people think this, but it's actually this will help you get one step closer to your goal. Yeah. I love that. These were some other things that came in from social of people, of things they're struggling with.

1:17:19So how should this, we're moving away from the objections. How should someone approach a conversation to ask for a raise? Ooh. So step number one is you have to have some sort of experience behind you and some sort of numbers in order to deserve a raise. You can't just get hired the first day and ask for a raise, or you can't be the worst employee ever and ask for a raise. So you have to have a reason to ask for a raise. So that means be the best at your job, right? Have some sort of reason in order to ask for a raise. Then when you ask for a raise, have other competitors' datas in order to compare to.

1:17:51So for example, if I want to ask for a raise from you, I would go to one of your competitors and say, hey, I've been working for Jay Shetty for a while. We've done X amount of revenue with him. What is the offer that you have for me? Then I would take it back to you and I would say, hey, Jay, I love working for you and I'm really sold on the long game with you. Like I want to grow with this company and I want to stay here, but I need to make it make sense for me just on a monetary standpoint because I have other competitors such as this guy and this guy offering me a little bit more. So I want to stay with you.

1:18:22That's why I want to have this conversation, be, you know, grounded with it. But I just need it to make a little bit more sense on the financial side in order to grow with you long term. So even if you don't believe that you're going to be with this company long term, you need to sell the long game and sell the vision to your employer. Because like you said, that's the leverage point that an employer has, is they want to invest in people for the long game. So hey, I want to be here for a long time. But in order for me to put all of my resources here, I need a little bit back because other people are recognizing my value.

1:18:54And I'm not saying you don't, but I need it to make it make a little bit more sense for me. What about if someone's going to interview with a company, what are the top three things they need to show? Numbers, what you've done for the company. I would say audit what you can do better and have a mathematical, easy game plan way to show what you can do with the company given the raise. So you can't just ask for a raise just because you deserve it. Corporate America does not like entitlement, right? But people will pay you if they think there's an upside. So this is creating value, right? It's, hey, if you pay me$20 ,000 more, I'm going to generate$800 ,000 a year more for the company and I'm willing to do this, this, and this for it.

1:19:35It's just like in sales. You can't drop the price when negotiating with someone for no reason, right? You need to actually have a reason and justify a price drop in order to not sound salesy, right? So data and then also like have a clear game plan. And you want to make it super easy for someone to say yes to you and say, hey, if I give this girl a promotion, this is exactly what we're going to get for her. Okay, awesome. Let's do it. Yeah. How do you deal with it when you don't get what you want? What's the right response? Never burn the bridge. That's a very good question that not a lot of people talk about.

1:20:08You never burn the bridge because a no isn't a no forever. It could be just maybe later. it could be you know a little bit of insight to where you need to improve a couple things and then re-ask again when you have more leverage there so just know that a no isn't forever it's just not right now yeah i think yeah i think it comes back to what we've been talking about this whole conversation where it's like when you deal with rejection badly it starts to affect everything because then you're like you know it could go in multiple ways you're like shrinking yourself your mood's a bit dull you're not walking in with that smile and with that confidence that you had and all of a sudden it's affecting everything.

1:20:45Yeah, for sure. It's crazy how quickly we kind of shut the door on ourselves. What about if you're going to interview for a job for the first time? So what are interviewers looking for when you're interviewing for a job? Right. So they're looking for people that are bought in on the long-term vision exactly, but also they're looking for people that ask really good questions that show that you kind of know what you're doing through the questions that you ask. So for example, if you want to become a remote closer and you get on an interview with someone and they're like, so what made you apply? And you're like, I just really want to make more money.

1:21:18I just want sales experience. What is that? That's all about me. Nobody cares about what you want, right? They care about what you can do for them in the context of the situation. So it's, you know, instead of, oh, I really want to make money, blah, blah, blah. It's, hey, I've been following X creator, X mentor for so long. I have this sales background and I would, I've been closing for other offers, right? But I would love to close for her offer because I have true conviction in what she's selling and I want to help you guys grow your business. So it's all about making the game plan clear, but also using the leverage points of the other person, not yourself.

1:21:53Yeah, absolutely. I think the amount of people that interview these days and they don't have that. It's entitlement. It's, it's, it's, yeah, the answer is just, it shocks you sometimes. You're like, like someone I've, interviewed people and they've said things to me like, yeah, I just didn't like what I was doing. Right. And it's like, cool. That's fair. I get it. I've not liked certain jobs that I had, but you don't want to be here. You want to come off as someone that is ready to do the most, ready to go above and beyond and doesn't just see it as a position. Because from an employer's perspective, we don't want someone who just wants to show up and do the bare minimum.

1:22:30We want someone who sees the value so much in themselves and takes pride in their work and is bought in on the long-term vision. So if you embody that, you should be good to go for an interview. And asking questions that relate to, you know, the business. You know, what's your guys' close rate? What's your guys' lead flow like? Tell me about the offer. When you make the interviewer sell themselves on why you should work for them, you won. And that's sales. it's taking a step back and saying well I mean I'm interviewing for a few positions but I just wanted to know a little bit more about how you guys do this what your process is like what it would look like if I did get hired what your salary is like and then I can come back to you with a decision yeah and I think I think there's a lot of test of your worth too like for example if you're going to be confident enough to say I've got these offers and I'm doing that you better back it up because that person may also just go yeah good for you like right we don't need you either.

1:23:23And I feel like sometimes if it's, if it's all a story, then it doesn't always play well. Like I find like, even like I do a lot of, uh, corporate coaching work. That's where most of our coaching is in me working with large organizations. And I have, there's a few experiences I've had. The first time I had an experience when I first began, this was like, maybe, I don't know, like 10 years ago, 11, maybe even 12 years ago before, before the brand. and so maybe even longer. And I remember being in an office and I asked all the questions. And before I was about to give my solution to their problem, I realized that my solution did solve their problem.

1:23:59And so I remember just going, thanks, guys. Yeah, I literally just went like, all right, great, thank you. And I walked down, I was like, thank you so much. Like, I just want to be honest with you. I don't think I have what you need, but really grateful. And I hope we can keep this conversation open. Fast forward five years from that point, I went back and sold a really great contract to this client. because they could see the honesty too. Like where I was, I was happy to be like, guys, you know what? Actually, I don't have anything you need, but I will come back. Exactly. And that's ethical sales because you can sell someone and then walk away from the conversation and both of you guys don't feel good about it.

1:24:30And that doesn't do any good at all. So it's like when you sell someone or when you apply for an interview and you are really trying to sell yourself, do you genuinely believe that you can provide this business value? Because that doesn't just come off in the words that you say, that comes off in your energy. And I'm sure you could feel like, when you kind of felt like, oh, I might not be ready for this right now, your energy was probably like, oh wait, I don't know what I got myself into. But that's why you really need to build the data points in order to have conviction in yourself or whatever you're selling in order to show up that way and like energetically be like, I'm here.

1:25:03I deserve this. Like, let's go. Cancel all the other interviews because I'm your person. And until then, I like how you just kept the bridge open. You didn't burn it. And it worked out. And I've had that with so many things that we're doing right now where I got rejected from something seven years ago. And this year it will become one of the most exciting parts of our business. And it's like, there's just seven years of relearning, patience, figuring it out, you know, developing new skills. And I just think that long game is so healthy for everyone to always play because your current employer may write you a reference one day.

1:25:37Your current employer maybe end up being one of your biggest clients one day. Like you just have no idea. Like I worked at a company called Accenture and Accenture was a place that invited me back to do so many keynotes when my career took off. But if I hadn't had a good relationship with them or left on good terms, to your point of burning again, well, then that wouldn't have been the case. And I feel like there's too much short-sightedness now because we think there's lots of opportunities, but at the top, everyone knows each other. Exactly. But I think what you're saying is exactly what someone listening should take away from it, which is it's not a yes or a no, it's a yes or a lesson.

1:26:10And so sometimes the lessons are more valuable than if you got that contract or you got that client years ago because the lesson taught you to never walk into a situation like that again. And so sometimes that lesson can be way more valuable than getting what you want in the moment.

1:26:41a couple more of these before we go to the final five this one's great what's the right way to talk about your strengths without overselling or apologizing um so i like to sprinkle in uh you You can call them testimonials or like subtle ways to flex, right? I subtly threw it in there, but then extrapolated a lesson from it that pertains to the other person because people don't care about your flex. They care about what your flex can do for them. So you can use it, but use it as a lesson in order to provide value to somebody else. Ego just always is such a turnoff. Like, I don't know. I generally just, I struggle so much when someone I feel is egotistical.

1:27:20and the way I think about the difference between confidence and ego is evidence and reflection. So it's like if someone can give me evidence and they can reflect on the evidence to prove that it's real experience, now it doesn't feel like a name drop. It doesn't feel like a number drop, which just feels like it's a bit distasteful. I hate when people name drop. It's my least favorite thing. When somebody name drops or says, you know, all these different numbers, it is a literal indicator that they probably don't have the skills in order to do what I need them to do. Yeah. Because they feel like they have to name drop or they feel like they have to, you know, show their numbers.

1:27:55I would also challenge that though, because it is a very fine line with when you're, you know, new to a space, there's a lot of people that might not know who you are. So sometimes, you know, the numbers that you've done for a company or your experience will speak volumes. And so nobody's gonna, you know, sell yourself like you will. So sometimes it's a fine line of not having ego, but it's also a line of like being loud about your accomplishments when they are valid and like shouting it from the rooftops because you deserved it if you worked for it. But it is a very fine line. Yeah. Which sales call or sales deal challenged you the most?

1:28:35Oh, that's a great question. Okay. So I was talking to a gay guy. Okay. Love talking to gay guys. So fun. Like it was very girl's girl vibe energy. He was awesome, okay? He keeps giving me the spouse objection. I keep rolling it, blah, blah, blah. Keeps giving me the spouse objection. I'm like, okay, fine. We keep rolling it. Then his spouse walks in the frame, sits down. I'm talking to spouse and spouse again, okay? So I'm like, okay, awesome. Now I know the other spouse is the decision maker. Kind of turn the attention of the sale towards him because I know the decision lies in his hands, right?

1:29:15That's what you need to do. Then I'm talking to him. He goes, I need to talk to my husband. So I look at this guy and I'm like, you brat. I thought you, you know, I thought it was him, not you. Like we could have had this done a long time ago. Like what's the issue? And so I, you know, direct to him. He says, I need to talk to my husband. I redirect to him. He goes, no, I really need to talk to my husband. He's not here right now. And I go, is there three of you? No, it was a throuple. No, it was a gay throuple. But let me tell you the way that I closed this steal. I sincere close them. And I go, you guys, this is one for the books.

1:29:55I was like, I've never been in this situation. And you guys are going to use someone, probably the next person that comes up. You're going to have to buy something at some point because you do have some issues. I want that person to be me. I've never sold a throuple before in my life. Like I would die to be able to go tell my boss and my coworkers that I just had this experience. Would you guys please allow me just the glory of having, you know, my first throuple sale. And they still send me Christmas cards to this day. Oh, I love that. It's kind of a funny sale, but it was just, I was so backwards.

1:30:23I was mad at them because I was like, I thought you were the decision maker, but it's you, but it's you, but it's you. Wait, they're not here with us, are they? That's incredible. That's wild. It was pretty crazy. I was actually speechless. So you're pretty much prepared, like, because obviously that's something you'd never be there for. You're pretty much prepared for any direction it can go in. When you're training people, you're training them in sales training for every scenario possible. Yeah. So you have to train like things are going to go wrong. You have to train for payment links not working.

1:30:54You have to train for your Zoom maybe crashing. You have to train for different objections, different scenarios if they need to call their bank, like different things. You just need to preempt them rather than waiting for some monstrosity to happen. And then you attack it then and there. Like you always need to preempt every sort of objection. and so then the follow-up question is probably like how do you preempt objections well you kind of get key indicators from someone you're talking about so if I'm talking to a girl we'll call her Stacy and Stacy's wearing like a fat rock on her finger I know Stacy's married right so later on into the call she might give me the spouse objection or she might be saying words like we when we did this us okay there's probably someone else in the picture that's not on the call.

1:31:40I might ask Stacey, like, have you ever signed up for something like this in the past? And if she did, okay, were you the one that made the decision or is there anyone else, you know, in the picture for that? If there is anyone else in the picture, you got to get them on the call. But if not, easy. You just preempted the objection. So you always plan for things. And that's just, that's how a well-funneled sale works. Everybody thinks that sales is overcoming every objection in the book, 10 times over with every client. And it's not, It's just creating a trusted buying atmosphere and true rapport with someone and just a good energy around the sale that makes it so easy for someone to say yes.

1:32:18Yeah. Why do you think we're all so ready to save up for a month to buy a bag, but struggle to invest in ourselves? Right. It's because you're worried about what everybody else thinks. you're shifting perception from how do I feel about myself to how do other people feel about me because buying a bag I mean if you want to buy a bag you can do that right like if it makes you feel good like I love buying designer like if it makes you feel good but buying it just for other people when you have other priorities is where it becomes an issue like I never bought designer until maybe like a year ago yeah even though I could it's just I had so many other things I wanted to check off.

1:32:57I wanted to do rental properties, networking events, hire mentors, move. Like there were so many other things that mattered to me more than just worrying about other people's perceptions because nobody's really thinking about you as much as you think. There's a metaphor. It's called like the invisible guest at a wedding. Like you show up to a wedding and you want your hair to be perfect. You're worried about what dress to wear. You're worried about the conversations that you're having with people when everybody's thinking that. And you'll probably never see a lot of these people again. So you're so in your head, but so is everybody else.

1:33:30And so in somebody else's perception, you are just the invisible wedding guest. They won't remember you. So why worry about if every single word is going to be perfect and you can carry that into everything in sales. Nobody knows what you're supposed to say. They don't know your script. If you mess up, you just roll with it. You keep going. Like this podcast, I don't want to be perfect. If I was perfect, I would be AI and I wouldn't be relatable to people. So just know that, you know, some sort of respect of, I don't have to be perfect. In fact, it's better if I'm not perfect. That is what makes you human.

1:34:05And that is what makes your story so amazing to inspire other people. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And also, I just feel like, I guess what I was getting at was this idea of, we don't even know we're being sold by most of the people that are selling to us. Like there are just certain life choices is we feel we made independently, but we were all sold on what it meant. Oh, yeah. And it's like, but when it comes to investing in ourselves, building our skills, learning, it's almost like we're scared to part with our hard-earned money because it feels in some way like we're being sold to. Well, investing into yourself is one of the most freeing things that you can do.

1:34:43If it's something that will give you an ROI, there's obviously a lot of things that you probably shouldn't invest into. But if you have a clear goal, You should feel super confident in investing in yourself if it qualifies for ROI, return on investment. If you can be super clear about if I put this amount of money in, what will I get out and what doors will that unlock for me? If you can feel good about that give and take, then you should make the decision for yourself. And I think the tables are kind of turning in a lot of ways with younger people because I think a lot of people love investing in themselves.

1:35:17they love buying an outfit to wear to an interview because it makes them feel a little bit more confident like i think we're kind of shifting away from you know the stigma around oh you shouldn't spend money on yourself right i think we're kind of shifting away from that so i'm very happy for that era yeah absolutely shelby you're awesome this is so much fun uh i learned so much i think my audience learned so much and i know like you just said you just recorded a six hour sales training for free for youtube so i'm excited for people to go subscribe to your channels follow you on Instagram, on YouTube, everywhere else.

1:35:49We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. Okay. So, Shelby, these are your final five. Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? To go as fast as possible. Never slow down. I like that. No one's ever said that before. I can't elaborate? You can. Go on. I'll let you. I'll let you. Everybody always says, You know, take it slow. You have time. You deserve a break. Like, just chill when in reality you don't. You literally have no time. There is urgency. You need to use every single waking moment to strategize what you want out of this life.

1:36:33And then as soon as you're clear on it, work yourself backwards. And the cool thing is when you're clear on your goal, that urgency does kick in. If you're like, I don't have the urgency. When you know exactly what you want, the urgency kicks in because you're like, well, how fast can I get there? And don't go with other people's timelines. Just because some people have what you want by 45 doesn't mean you have to wait till you're 45 to have it. You can literally give it to yourself now if you just work really hard and go fast. Yeah, well said. Yeah, I feel like that idea of moving fast, you will break things.

1:37:05But if you didn't move fast, you wouldn't have had the progress and the growth. And I can relate to that. I was 28 when I started all of this and we moved extremely fast in the last 10 years. And when you're doing that, certain things - It's chaotic and it's messy, but you learn as you go. That's the only way to do it. Absolutely. And I think if we tried to go any slower, we wouldn't exist. Exactly. Yeah. We wouldn't be around. Yeah. I love that. I think the same for myself. In college, everybody told me to slow down or why are you doing this and that? Like I got an accelerated master's degree and an honors finance degree, which don't use either of those.

1:37:39But again, like every single ounce of hard work that you put into yourself never goes to waste, right? I learned work ethic and whatever. But every summer that I was doing that, I was knocking doors, selling pest control in Minnesota heat to strangers. So it's like I was going so fast. I never had a second that I was just bored. And maybe that comes from trauma or whatever. But I think that also just builds some sort of work ethic where you're like, there's so much urgency. Like, I need to go. like there is nobody else that's going to save me right now nobody's gonna come in and build your life for you you need to go and everybody in your life is gonna tell you slow down take a break oh you're doing so good why don't you just be happy here it's because your speed and your growth makes their lack of growth and lack of speed feel inferior that's the only thing it means and you're making them feel uncomfortable because of how much you're doing in such a short amount of time.

1:38:33So you need to be able to filter out like what other people are saying about you and why they're saying that. Take it for face value. You know, you don't need to attack it, but just know if you have goals and priorities, why have it take 10 years if you could have it take two? Literally why? You might as well do it now. And especially if like a woman's watching this that doesn't have kids yet, you need to go now. Your day is all about you. You know, if you don't have other kids, other people in your life to tend to, you have so much free time that you can put into yourself and go as fast as possible and speed run it.

1:39:16Because as soon as like, if you want to grow a family one day, you've got a lot of other stuff to do. And you're probably going to be like, damn, why didn't I do all this side hustle things or extra learning on the side when I had the free time to do so? So it's a very finite amount of time where you can go fast and you need to take advantage of it. Absolutely. Wow. That was, that was a very motivational. Thank you. You're like, what am I going to do tonight? I'm not, I'm not even a woman. I mean, for men and women, it's like, just go fast. No, I know you were. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree.

1:39:50My, uh, my mentor who, and I forget how old he is now, but he was like, that's not good. No, no, no, no, no, no. Not like that. I was, when I was 28, he was like 55. So I'm 10 years old. So he's like 65. And he used to always told me, he was like, Jay, before you have kids, you can move 200%. For sure. Put your foot down on the pedal, like do everything. For sure. And he was absolutely right. Like he was absolutely right. Like it was just for the past 10 years, I've had my foot down on the gas and I don't regret a second of it. It's been the best thing ever. You've built a foundation. Well, you've built more than just a foundation, but you've built it.

1:40:29And so now like when you are able to have kids, you can like enjoy that and be a little bit more present and not have to work out of survival. Yeah. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Finish your master's program. Do you finish it? Yeah. I got a master's degree by 22. What was your master's in? Business. Wow. Yeah. So it was in business development, but it didn't really do much. We had a teacher. It was like you have four different types of teachers for the four different types of business. One of them was sales and negotiation. And I was in door-to-door sales, like making a ton of money, like loved it.

1:41:04And this professor was teaching the most menial, like kindergarten level sales tactics. And I'm like, this is what people are teaching you? Like, I think there's something to be said when you are someone that is in a situation, whether that be a job or school or a program, and you kind of look around and you don't feel like you belong, but in a good way. I think it's good to notice that, acknowledge it. And, like, if you still want to finish it just to be able to say you did, like, I think that's important. But it's also, like, don't follow that path then if you know that you're better than everybody else around you.

1:41:40in a non-egotistical way, but you just know you're special, you know you're destined for more than what you're doing right now, that that's okay. And I think a lot of the people, when they told me, you know, just do things the normal way, why are you trying so hard? It's like, those people now are in a position where they're asking me for advice. And I'm like, well, there's not really much advice to give because we both started off at the same exact playing field. it's just some people go really freaking fast and try a bunch of different things out and not everything worked out and I had to sacrifice nights I had to sacrifice friendships I had to sacrifice you know going out or whatever but it's worth it so yeah I wouldn't have finished my master's program if I know what I know now but I mean glad I did it that's cool question number four can everyone be good at sales or are certain people just not meant for it everybody thinks you need to be extroverted in order to be good at sales and that's actually false.

1:42:39And I'm not saying introverts are better than extroverts even though a lot of introverts do do well in sales because you can build that empathy. But it all comes down to internal motivation of I will do what I need to do right now even if nobody's watching. Which means on a sales call people are going to tell you no. Are you going to sit there and roll a couple objections with them? Are you going to sit there and even though it's a little uncomfy are you going to do what you need to do in order to move the conversation forward? Or at the end of your day, are you satisfied? Or are you going to send out some follow-up emails?

1:43:12Are you going to text a couple clients from the day before to make sure you pick up every single deal that you possibly can? And those people, I would boil it down into one word, and that's hunger. You need to be hungry. Like you need to be maniacal in your work ethic and gritty. That's who succeeds in sales, is who wants it the most and who does the most in order to get it. What do people do when they just feel lazy, stuck? Maybe they've just wasted a bit of time and they've kind of developed bad habits. I always ask her, what's your morning routine? What are you doing today? What did you do before?

1:43:53Did you stop doing the things outside of your sales job that made you so great to where you got a little too cocky to where you thought to yourself, I don't need to show up to these trainings. I could skip a workout if I need. I don't need to, you know, get a little bit of extra advice about this. I don't need to rewatch my sales calls because I close everyone. But money is a lagging indicator. So if you stop doing the things that got you to be so great, it might not affect you that day, but it'll affect you in two months. And then you'll wake up one day and be like, where did it all go? Well, because two months ago, you stopped doing the things that made you great in the first place.

1:44:29So sales is all about being the best, yes, but staying at the top is a big stressor as well because you have to keep up with that level of pressure where everybody's looking at you and saying, you're the best closer on our team. Like what's your secrets, blah, blah, blah. But also being humble enough to know that you could go down the line at any point in time. So you need to keep doing the things that got you there. Yeah. Good advice. Good advice. Fifth and final question we ask is to every guest who's ever been on the show. Shelby, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

1:45:03The law that you have to use the cards that you were dealt. A lot of the times I see women specifically feel bad about an unfair advantage that they've been dealt. Like everybody has a deck of cards, right? And maybe one of your cards is you have family money. Like you've got daddy's money. Daddy did very well for himself and you are financially set. Okay, use that card and don't feel bad about it. Maybe one of your cards is you're really good at talking to people. Don't try to humble yourself by doing something outside of your skill set. Like take that unfair advantage and use it. Or maybe you're gorgeous.

1:45:38Go model. Go put yourself in front of a camera and go viral. Like use every single unfair advantage and don't ever feel bad about doing so. So the law would be, I guess, just using all of the cards that you were dealt and not faking humility in order to, you know, play it fair. You don't have to play fair. Nobody else is playing fair. So do what you can to get ahead with the cards that you were dealt. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Yeah. I think there's so many of us that totally do the opposite. Yeah. You're absolutely right. I see a lot like, and I think it's cool too, though, on one hand, because it's like, oh, you have family money, but you want to go make a name for yourself in a completely different facet.

1:46:16Like, great. But also it's like a lot of people have so many advantages in their book. and they don't realize that they have them. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's like you do, you're just not focusing on it or you're focusing on what's in somebody else's deck and you're not looking at yours and you're not doing things in order to get more cards in your deck. Again, building these skills, building experience for yourself in order to have more cards that you can be dealt. So I think a lot of people just don't play the game of life to the full advantage that they could. Yeah, well said. Shelby, thank you so much.

1:46:50This is awesome. your advice, your insight, your motivation and inspiration is contagious. And I can't wait to see so many more people come to your work to be able to learn from you how to sell better, to negotiate better, to persuade better, get the raise they deserve, make the money they deserve, and really create abundance in the world where more people are living a more full life. So thank you so much. I'm all for it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my conversation with Dr. Joe Dispenza on why stress and overthinking negatively impacts your brain and heart and how to change your habits that are on autopilot.

1:47:27Listen to it right now. How many times do we have to forget until we stop forgetting and start remembering? That's the moment of change. No one cares how many times you fell off a bicycle. If you ride the bicycle now, you ride the bike. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom Podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the valley of despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward.

1:48:05Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a.

1:48:41neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Della Rocha, host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns we're ready to release. If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delaroach on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:49:23This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.