Tom Holland ON: How to Overcome Social Anxiety & Beneficial Life Lessons You Can Learn From Family

30:53I think it's quite fun. I think if you're doing it for the right reasons, you know, there's a great opportunity to raise some money for amazing charities. And I think a few of them have done a lot for charity. I think it's really great. I think, yeah, you know, my brother Paddy would never have been watching boxing and now he loves it because of his favourite YouTubers at boxing. So if it's good for the sport, it's good for the sport. I sort of don't really mind. I think it's funny to be honest. Yeah. Because you sit at home watching it, you're like, I could do that. I can get in there and do that.

31:20And why don't you? And you're like, well, I don't really want to do that. So we might see you in Creed Ford then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We'll do the acting boxing. I'd love to do a boxing movie. Yeah. I think it would be cool to do a boxing movie, but where the fighting is real. Walk me through that. I wouldn't necessarily be in that film, right? But I do think that you could make a really interesting film where the outcome of the film is determined on the outcome of the real fight. Has anything like that ever been done? like racing or any, can you, I'm just trying to. Not that I know of.

31:53Yeah, not that I know of. That's what I'm trying to think. It could be really cool. Yeah, wow. But yeah, I love, I love boxing movies. I'm a sucker for it. Yeah, which one's your favorite? I think Rocky II is probably my favorite. I remember when we were in Billy Elliot, we had this room called the Billy Room and there was always a Billy backstage while the show was going on because the show was so labor intensive. It was very dangerous. There's lots of moving parts. There's lots of acrobatics. It wasn't too uncommon for a Billy to get injured. and then there would be someone upstairs who would replace that Billy.

32:22And we would just hang out upstairs and there was an Xbox and a television and all that sort of stuff. And one of the DVDs that we had, the two DVDs we had was Step Up to the Streets, my favourite film of all time, and Rocky 2. And I must have seen that film 40 times. How many times did you practice the dance in the mirror? Oh, man, I've got the whole dance down, bro. Can we see it? No. Yeah, no, I love that film. I absolutely love that film. Yeah, I'd say my favourite. so Rocky was my favorite because I'd watch it with my dad and Rocky. I struggle between Rocky three and Rocky four. Cause I love Mr.

32:55T and that's three. And I loved Ivan Drago as well, which was four and they were both just such great movies. Yeah. Yeah. It was just, yeah. It's such great entertainment, even though it's nothing like real boxing. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing like real boxing. But then I remember watching real boxing when I was growing up, it was Prince Nassim. Oh man. I love him. Yeah. My dad was a big fan of his. So I'd remember watching him a lot. I love his style. There's a video of him working with the, I guess it's just, it's like a swinging bag. And he is so effortless. Because Canelo's got a great head movement, but he looks like he's thinking about it.

33:28Whereas Nazeem is just living the dream. Just he's so fluid. And I love the way he used to move. Yeah. And I love how we would enter the ring. Me, I would over-rotate and slam on my face or something. Yeah, he was brilliant. Yeah, it was like wrestling meets boxing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he must have been a nightmare to fight. It must have been like, he's beating me and he's embarrassing me. This is really tough. Terrible. What do you think of Lemachenko? Did you see his last fight? I haven't. No, I didn't see it. I didn't see it. That's an interesting one. Go on, tell me. I didn't see it at all.

33:59Well, I think the general consensus is that he won, but it was given the other way. Right, right. He is my favorite boxer because of his history, his background in dance. He was like, I guess, a really talented boxer. And then I guess, I don't know if this is true, but his dad sent him to go and study dance. for sort of five years or something like that. For his boxing training. For his boxing, which is why his footwork is like on another planet. There's loads of examples of where he's fighting people and they look up and he's just gone. He's behind them. So I really admire him. But his most recent fight, he lost.

34:30How did it go against him? Was it a vote? It was a vote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. They went against him. So I wonder whether they'll fight again. Yeah. I guess they'll have to if there's... It seems like this isn't a conspiracy theory from you. That's the problem with boxing though. Like, will they fight again? you know because it's a tricky it's a tricky business unlike the UFC where you know if they want to fight they'll fight that's what I love about it I took my brother and my cousin to the UFC the other night and that is such a savage sport it is that is yeah it's terrifying we don't want that to be a movie in a real one have you seen The Warrior is that what you're going to talk about that movie's so good The Warrior is one of the most underrated movies it's so good it's a little ridiculous the idea that they have like six fights a night getting ready for one final, but I do love that film.

35:17Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really good movie. It's a really good movie. Oh, well, okay, all right. So we know there's a boxing movie coming somewhere down the line. Yeah, there's got to be one down the line. There's got to be one down the line. Absolutely. Yeah, and we want to see you work your way up. And I mean, we might see you like, you know, actually go do it for real. Yeah, imagine. For charity, maybe. This episode is brought to you by 8sleep. Did you know that temperature is one of the most important factors in improving your sleep quality? When you wake up in the middle of the night or feel extra groggy in the morning, temperature is almost always to blame.

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37:11One of the things that you mentioned recently was that you gave up drinking about a year and a half ago. Yes. And you said it was the hardest thing you ever did. Yes. And I wanted to know what was so hard about it for you? Why was it so hard? It's interesting. I didn't one day wake up and say, I'm giving up drinking. drinking I just like many Brits had had a very very boozy December Christmas time I was on vacation I was drinking a lot and I've always been able to drink a lot I think I get my jeans from my mum's side in that thing I can I can drink and I decided to just give up for January I just wanted to do dry January and all I could think about was having a drink it's all I could think about.

37:54I was waking up thinking about it. I was checking the clock. When's it 12? And it just really scared me. I just was like, wow, maybe, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing. So I sort of decided to punish myself and say, I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off. If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. Two months go by and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda. I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling. And I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem.

38:32So I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, if I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. And by the time I had got to June 1st, I was the happiest I've ever been in my life. I could sleep better. I could handle problems better things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off I could take in my stride I had so much such better mental clarity I felt healthier I felt fitter and I just sort of said to myself like why why am I enslaved to this drink why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink and I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for work.

39:15And I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers. And I just felt so much pressure. And this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community, because so much of it is about how much can you drink? Let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and a half into it now. It doesn't even cross my mind. I found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic. ones that are also really healthy i found this one beer that it's full of electrolytes and it's you know the carbohydrates in it are long-lasting energy so like having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing i'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it i've never run into that scenario where my friends are like oh go on just have a beer like you're fine they've always sort of really supported me and i don't want to be that person that's saying to people you should get sober you should get sober if i could encourage someone to drink less then that's great but i i don't want to start getting into the world of you need to stop drinking because i just it's not for me to say i went on my own little journey i'm really enjoying it i'm delighted that my mum's always has also given up she's loving it and it's been amazing i can't believe the difference that i feel from not drinking yeah i feel amazing that's amazing man i love hearing that and i love hearing that it's been great for you right i think yeah that's the point not everything has to be like look what i did you can do it too it's kind of like no this is just what's been great for me do you think it was partly that attitude for you at least in the beginning where it's like well look I can drink I drink a lot it comes from my mum genes and it doesn't affect me and then all of a sudden you realize well wait a minute it's more than that because I think there is that like I was like that as a young man as well like for me it was it was easy to drink I didn't drink daily for me I drank a lot more socially sure and I love playing drinking games with my mates yeah that was really what I enjoyed the most probably and for me when I quit I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk so for sure for me it was more that but yeah I wonder for you did you find that it's there's a really fine line between like I know I can drink a lot and then all of a sudden you're kind of not addicted beyond that no addicted I'm happy to say like I was definitely addicted to alcohol not shying away from that at all I think anyone that wakes up and has it not wakes up anyone that has a beer every day is probably got a little bit of a problem but yeah you're right I would drink and drink and drink and drink.

41:32And then you would just reach that moment where you're like, wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer. And you wake up the next day and you have a terrible headache and you're suffering. I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep. Yeah. Or a ring. Yeah. And it was amazing because I couldn't sleep. I was like, why can't I sleep? I'm working 14 hours a day. I'm doing two hours in the gym. I'm eating really healthily and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me? I bought this ring and it was booze. It just, it was completely affecting my sleep. And You know, it's also interesting as well, going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear and everyone's I love you, man.

42:11I love you so much. You're like, yeah, brilliant. I love you, too. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm going to bed. I love being that person now. I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8 a.m. in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go. And they're sort of crawling out their car. So yeah, so I'm over the moon to be sober. I love it. Yeah. For anyone who is listening right now and is going, Tom, I love that for you. I want to do it too. Like they're listening going, I'm having too much every day. I can notice some of those things, but I'm just stuck. And it's hard because we know that addiction's that way.

42:43We know that this is heavy. It's not easy. But if someone is watching going, Tom, tell me, what did you do to even get started? How did you have that courage to say, I'm going to do January. I'm going to stick at it. were there any moments where you actually fell back and then had to get back on the horse again like just walk us through that a little bit more for anyone who is watching going Tom mate I want to be in your position in like six months I didn't fall back on it I have done in the past like I've had periods of my life where I'd given up drinking and then gone back to drinking but this time I don't know it was just different I really worked to sort of change my mindset I really asked myself like why do you drink why are you drinking and a lot of the time my answer would be to feel more comfortable in the social environment yeah and i just put myself in those environments and just would force myself to be there i'd force myself to hang out and and go to a club or go to a bar go to a dinner yeah so you weren't avoiding those places i was at the beginning because i didn't feel like i could go and not have a drink because of the stress of it but then after a while i sort of was like mate you've got to pull your socks up here and you can't just live in your house all the time.

43:49You've got to go out and enjoy yourself. And if you're only enjoying yourself because you're drinking, then you really do have a problem. But I just changed my mindset. I just, I found really good replacements, things that I could sort of attribute to having a beer. I often found with me, most of it is just the ritual of cracking something open and sharing it with friends and drinking it. Whether it's sparkling water or a beer, I now can't, I don't associate like, I don't see a difference. But I think it's different for everyone. I had a great support system jack is one of my best mates and we travel all over the world he doesn't drink and doing it with him was it was a really helpful experience for me my brother is always on the road with me he was very supportive and yeah i just really set my mind to it i was like i really want to do this i want to prove to myself i can do it yeah and then once i'd felt the health benefits and started really feeling like my full self yeah it's like oh my god this is this is the best but do you not drink i haven't drank for 17 years no way congratulations that's amazing I feel amazing.

44:48Yeah. It's incredible. Wow. It's like one of the best feelings in the world. And it's my biggest like worry when I was about to quit was like, how am I going to hang out with my mates? That was my biggest worry. Yeah. That was my biggest worry. I was like, my mates knew me as the guy who was like first to the game, last to get out. That was me back. You know, the clown when I got drunk, like life at the party, kind of like that kind of guy. And then all of a sudden I decided I wasn't going to drink anymore. I was like, crap, am I going to fit in? And then I remember I went into the corporate world for a bit and I didn't drink and I was like god am i going to miss out on like opportunities and networking like you know all the guys afterwards are like going to get drinks and i'm like i'll come but i'll have a water or i'll have a soda whatever it is and what was really interesting for me is not relying on drinking made me rely on qualities and skills i had sure that were actually better yeah so now that i couldn't drink as an excuse to hang with the lads i was bringing out parts of my personality that i probably would have just hidden away or ignored.

45:44Yeah, suppressed. And all of a sudden you were actually getting respected and liked for who you were rather than the person who you were when you were drunk. Sure. And actually that worked in the workplace and there was no one at the workplace going, oh, Jay doesn't drink so he's not getting promoted. Right. It wasn't like that. People were like, oh yeah, I really like hanging out with Jay or he's a really good guy or whatever it may be. And I was still getting the same opportunities and I was still getting promoted at work and whatever it was. And I think that's why I'd like to remind people that don't feel like your career or your work is going to suffer.

46:12Even for you, like you've, I'm sure as a, you know, with your career path, you have to be at parties, you have to be at events. Of course. And the fact that you're able to do that now without having alcohol and it doesn't sound like it's negatively impacting your career. If anything, it's the opposite. Mate, I honestly cannot believe like the amount of times I've sat down with an actor that I've really admired or sat down with a producer or director and been like, oh, you know, well, I don't drink anymore. And they go, oh, I don't drink, 10 years. And you're like, oh my God. And I've had so many insightful conversations with people like yourself where you've heard their story, their reason for giving up.

46:44And there is a wonderful community of people. And I love it. I love being a part of that community. I'm really proud to be a part of it. I hope that, you know, I can meet other people and chat to them about it because it's really nice. It's lovely to be like, let's go get a lime soda together. You know? Yeah, let's get a juice. Let's get a smoothie. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is true. It's true. And it's really interesting because I can't remember. I'm trying to remember. there was this blog that came out years ago i can't even remember it now and there was this girl on instagram who was getting a lot of likes and a lot of comments and a lot of attention and one day she just disappeared like she stopped posting and everyone's just like all the comments were like where are you what happened are you okay like what happened to you you know everyone was frantic trying to figure out what happened to her because they loved her they were following and all the rest of it and what they didn't know is that it was built by a team that was trying to show that what people didn't notice is that in every picture she posted she was drinking and it was a made up it was almost like original ai that was made up to prove the point that you can love someone and you can think you're really close to them and you you can think their lifestyle looks amazing but actually they've got a drink in every picture they post and you didn't realize they had an alcohol problem so there was no real person who died but the point was that this your friends could be struggling even when they're posting these beautiful lifestyle pictures but are you aware wow and are you conscious of how much it affects you and i can't can't remember who built that page i think that's one of the problems with alcohol is that if you came out with alcohol right now if alcohol wasn't a thing and you like i've invented this drink that is gonna make you like either really happy or really aggressive or really stupid and we're gonna just sell it to the masses people be like nah mate keep your funky juice like we don't want that that sounds terrible and it's one of those things because it is so socially acceptable that the addiction side of it the bad sides of it really do fly under the radar yeah and that's really interesting i'll tell you something i do love about being a non-drinker i love being the designated driver i love being that person that makes sure that everyone gets home i don't know i just i like being a dependable person i i think i'm quite dependable and i really like that that um thing and I saw this crazy YouTube video once, this was years ago, of a guy that went to a bar, he got drunk and he drove home and he crashed his car.

49:05And I don't know if this is real, it could have been fake, but it's really impactful. Basically, what his friend had done was set up the room as if he had been in a coma for like 10 years. And his friend wakes up hours after the crash and his friend is there and he had all like old makeup on to make him look older. and now I'm thinking about it, there's no way this could have been real, because how would they have been able to pull that off? But he basically is saying to him, like, you've been asleep for 10 years, everyone's missed you, like, we can't believe you're awake, this is amazing. And it shows, like, how a stupid decision like driving drunk can affect the future of your life.

49:42So I do love being the designated driver. That is something I enjoy, seeing my friends have a good time, being like, don't worry, Tom, we'll take you home. Yeah. I used to love being the designated driver until I realised that an ex-girlfriend just had me do that, because I was the one who didn't do that. Yeah, right. That wasn't a fun designated driver job. But I've always been that guy since, because so I lived as a monk for three years. Yeah, amazing. And when I came back after that, obviously I never went back to drinking alcohol and everything. And so, but I went back into the workplace and I remember everyone would always open up to me and give me advice.

50:12But it's what you're saying. When someone was drunk, they tell me their whole life story. Yeah. Next day they'd wake up and go, Jay, you don't actually remember what I said. I remember everything. They're like, please don't tell anyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I loved that part where I was like, Like I was able to be there for people. Just hear their stories. A hundred percent. And someone that had context the next day, because if they told someone else who was drunk, you'd both not remember and then it'd be gone. No, I think the benefits that you've just pointed out of good sleep, good health, great mental clarity.

50:38Totally. They're huge. But there's a couple of things I want to point out for everyone who's listening, just as takeaways, because Tom makes it so seamless when you're talking about it. It's really beautiful as well. But one of the things you mentioned was finding alternatives. And during my monk life, we always talked about how there was something that we called the higher taste. And it was saying you can never give up a lower taste unless you had a higher taste. And so there has to be a switch. There has to be a replacement. There has to be a replacement. And the fact that you found alternatives, I think that's half the battle.

51:04Because most of us are trying to take something out of our lives and then you're just trying to fill it. And then you have to go back to what you had before because you're not finding a replacement. So that was beautiful. And the second thing you said, which I loved, which was having this conversation and dialogue with other people, someone who's one year ahead of you, someone who's 10 years ahead, someone's 20 years ahead who's gone through that process and they're open and honest and vulnerable about you know i did have a weak moment or you know what this was really tough for me and i think having those communities where you can talk about these things makes a massive difference so if anyone's struggling i hope that those two things can kind of you know give you the support you need and again it goes back to the message of the show is that like you should ask for help yeah and you should feel empowered to do so yeah but tell me about your monk life like that must have been amazing it was special i've always been so tempted to go away and do one of those retreats where you know you go to somewhere like india and you go to those places we don't speak for a month or something like that like that must have just been the most enlightening experience mate now that you've said that when you when you want to go i'm going to take you please yeah you know when absolutely love to go i met a guy i was on holiday earlier this year and he had just got back from a retreat he did two weeks where he didn't make a sound and was just explaining to me how eye-opening it was yeah yeah no i i mean to me it was one of the best experiences in my life because even the stuff that i did then i was 22 years old when i did it even the stuff that i did then i don't even know if i'd be able to do it anymore now but there was such a like energy you had as a 22 year old where it's just open to any experience and wanting to try it all out amazing and i think for me it was because and it comes back to the people that have done things when i was 18 was when i first met a monk i never really knew what monks did or any of their practices but i met a monk who i write about in my book who just blew my mind because he was the first person i met that i felt was at ease with himself and when i was 18 i'd met people who were like rich and famous and you know beautiful and powerful and all this type of stuff but i don't think i'd met anyone who was truly happy and content with themselves not happy like oh i'm so happy life's amazing i I mean more like happy with who they are.

53:14At peace with who they are. At peace with who they were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And for some reason at 18, that kind of like was an arrow straight to my heart where I was like, that's real. Like I want that. And it just, it's so hard to explain because everyone's like, well, how did you know that at 18? And I was like, I don't know. It must've been how powerful he was. It's kind of like, it's kind of like you wake up when the sun's out and the light's out and you just wake up because you feel that energy. And I felt it through him. And then I went to university and I'd talk to him and I'd meet him in the summers and Christmases.

53:43But I just decided, I was like, I want to do this because I'd met someone who I felt had emotional and mental mastery in a way that I'd never seen before. And so when I went out there and whether it was the meditation training or whether it was the simplicity training of the lifestyle or whether it was the teachings and the values that you had to live by, I just got so much from it that I honestly believe that anything that I'm good at doing today is because of what I learned during that time. And so anything I'm good at today is because of that. Do you think that you found what he had? Yeah, I believe so.

54:18And I would say that - Or has. He's still with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I still see him every year. Amazing. And he still has it. Yeah, it's like swag. Like it doesn't go away. He still has it. And yeah, definitely, definitely. I got a glimpse into it. Obviously, he's been doing it for nearly 30 years. And I only did it for three. But you still get a glimpse of it. You get an experience of it. you know that it exists. And I think that's half the battle too. Like even with your sobriety, it's like, you just need to know it exists. And then you're like, wow, there's this other side. And even though it's a challenge and even though I'm still trying to be more mindful every day and I'm still working on myself because it's - Of course, it's an endless, ongoing thing.

54:58Yeah, I know it. And I take a lot of friends and people I know on retreats there because just a couple of years ago, I took someone that I love to one of the caves in Rishikesh. So one of the things I love about caves is that they're equally dark and silent. So it's almost like the first time, like we could be silent in this room and it would be silent, but the silence of a cave is just different. Different level, yeah. And so when you go in there and you can't see anything either, so you can't even see yourself. So you're so deep into the cave that there's no light from the mouth of the cave anymore.

55:28There's no light from the mouth of the cave. Oh, I don't know about that, mate. I'm really stressing you out. No, you hold hands. Right, right, yeah. You don't hold hands. But it's just, it's one of those experiences is that you actually get to experience real stillness and real silence and real disconnection from everything around you. And then you can actually listen to yourself. Yeah, it's interesting. I would love to do something like that. Something that I find myself doing a lot is if I see a beautiful landscape or something, I will try and see if I can find an angle of it where there's nothing man-made in the view.

56:10Because you know what it's like? Like you see a beautiful hill or something and there's a telephone pole in the middle of it or a lamp poached or something. So doing something like that where there is nothing but just Mother Nature and the silence and being with yourself. I'm obsessed with nature. It's like one of my biggest passions. I'm absolutely like, this new Our Planet show has just come out. One sitting, I've done the whole thing. So I would love to do something like that. So the next time you go in, let me know. I'll come with you. We'll figure it out. No, where's a place? I love nature too.

56:40I just took my, me and my wife just went to Bali. Oh, I love Bali. Yeah, and it was unbelievable. We went whitewater rafting and it almost felt like Jurassic Park. I was just waiting for a dinosaur head to pop out. And it was just beautiful. It was so lush. It was so natural. There were these waterfalls everywhere. And another place that I've loved nature-wise, India, of course, we mentioned, but Iceland. I'd love to go to Iceland. I got to go to Iceland a few years ago. And my friend was filming a documentary out there. and so I got to experience it with the documentary travelers and we went to a real glacier and we went to, you know, and it was incredible to just, it was the first time I felt like I'd landed on another planet.

57:16Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just, I literally, I was like, this looks like nothing I've ever seen before in my life. Like I'm on another, like I could have, I could have gone into outer space and landed on another planet. There's a reason why every single space film, Iceland is the first on the list for locations. Oh, is that, I didn't know that. I think Interstellar probably shot in Iceland. I'm sure all of those films because you could do Mars, you could do Venus all in you know, in Iceland I would love to go I don't know, we were thinking about doing some climbing and I'm not sure about how I feel about glaciers and walking across them and just falling and never being found.

57:57Yeah, we walked across them and obviously there were teams there. Sure. And then they had an expert and they went down into the glacier. Like they went into one. And it was really scary because while we were walking on the glacier and we've got the, I forgot what those little boots are called, the ones with the kind of like. The little prongs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot what they're called. But anyway, we had those on and. Crapons. Crampons. Crampons. Crampons. Okay, crampons. Thank you for that, Jack. And so we're wearing these crampons and literally it was like three steps further and you would have fallen and you don't see it.

58:27And you would never be found. You would never be found and you'd never know. And it would be like that movie, what's it, 126 Hours, where that guy had to soar off his own arm. 126 Hours, mate, in 10 minutes, the ice would just... Yeah, no, that's a bit too far for me. Well, if you went with a group of, you know, experts and all the rest of it. Yeah, but you've seen the documentary. Sometimes the experts go out and it's a one-way story. They don't ever come back, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you've got to be careful. I agree. I'll show you some videos later, though. because it was pretty spectacular.

58:55It was really amazing. No, I love that with your journey with Sabra. And again, the other thing we were talking about this earlier, going back to it was you decided to take a break from acting because you were doing this role. It was really tough and challenging and you're like, you need some time. And again, you were saying that that was misconstrued. And I just, before we dive into why you needed to take a break and what was challenging about it? I just wanted to just, if you wanted to give context to that, and you don't have to, but if you wanted to clarify what you meant and what was going on there.

59:30It's only a break from acting because I'm an actor. It's not like the acting itself. I just have been so lucky that in my life I've been working so much. I just wanted to take a break. I just wanted to be in one place for a while. I wanted to be with my friends, be with my family, move into my house. So it wasn't necessarily, oh my God, I need to have a break from acting because it's too much. I just needed to have a break from traveling and working. And also I've done so much of my growing up on the road. I needed to do a lot of growing up at home, paying my water bill, paying my council tax and sorting out my bins and all that sort of stuff that they don't teach you at school, which I think there should be a lesson.

1:00:11I think there There should be a lesson at school that's called life, which is like laundry, basic cooking. Like I didn't realize you have to pay for your water. I just thought that was a luxury of living in England. The water comes out the sky and then it comes out your tap. I was so behind on my water bill. I didn't realize. I'm up to date now. Don't worry. So yeah, I just wanted to take this break. And it's a shame, again, talking about the press and how they can spin things. It's a shame that this year off has come after this incredibly hard job and that they kind of ran with this idea that, yes, the show did break me and yes, it was difficult, but I could have gone back to work.

1:00:45I was always planning on taking this break after this job. So thank you for giving me the time to sort of clarify that. I am loving having time off and going back to work is something that isn't really on my radar yet. I'm just loving being with my family and my friends and, and enjoying, you know, the fruits of my labor a little bit and traveling and seeing the world. Cause you know, we get to see the world for work, but it's different. You know, Going off of your own accord and seeing these places and meeting people is what I love. I'm very social, which is one of the things I found so difficult about giving up alcohol is because I was like, that's my key to my social life.

1:01:21And then I realized, I was like, no, you're just actually naturally a really social person. The alcohol is just an additive to that. So get rid of it. So yeah, so my year off has been amazing. I'm loving it. I'm six months, seven months into it now. I have a job to go to but you know obviously we're going through this writer's strike right now we're unsure as to where we are I'm hoping that you know the writers can make a deal and will be looked after as they should be because it'd be great to get back to work but I'm in no rush I'm really loving some time at home yeah because how old are you now?

1:01:5327 yeah and so if you've been working since you were 9 or at least later on into your teens I think I think people forget that and I coach personally a lot of musicians who go on tour a lot sure and I just finished a 40 city world tour for my second book and we did like 40 cities maybe in like 75 80 days maybe like it was intense and we went all over the world so we did like i've never done anything like that yeah it was 10 did 15 cities in the u.s and then 25 cities around the world and so we did everyone from paris amsterdam berlin melbourne we did three shows at the sydney opera house brisbane did singapore did five shows in india did dubai like it was it was amazing i had one of the best experiences of my life at the same time i was reflecting on my music clients who have to do 100 150 shows a lot of them pull out of doing their tours a lot of them announce kind of like you're saying i took a break sure a lot of them will announce and say you know what guys i can't i can't finish i can't do it anymore and it's really interesting because i messaged some of them straight away saying i always could understand why you needed that sure Now I actually have actual empathy for you.

1:02:59A hundred percent. Because now I'm on the road and I can see how displacing it is. Sure. And I'm older and I have a certain set of skills that help me with that based on my monk life and all the rest of it. But I can imagine if you've been touring since you were 15 years old, which is what a lot of these artists have done. Yeah. Like you just said, you grow up on the road. Sure. And then all of a sudden you're like, well, who am I and who are my friends and what is my life? And now everyone that I pay is my friend. and that's the only friends I have. Totally. And so it's really interesting how when you get a little glimpse into someone's life and then the last show I had was in Barcelona.

1:03:34I love Barcelona. Yeah, it was amazing. And the night before my last show, Live Nation, who was doing my show there, they also do Coldplay's tour and they were like, do you want to come to watch Coldplay? I was like, I'd love to watch Coldplay. So on the night before to watch Coldplay, it was unbelievable. They did four sold out shows of 65 ,000 people each night in Barcelona and I went towards the fourth night and Chris Martin and the crew were just unbelievable. And then I found out it was the 89th show. And I was thinking, gosh, like it is so hard. Like it's just so hard and all their families are with them and traveling with them and all the rest of it.

1:04:07And so I want to touch on that with you as well that walk us through, because I've talked about this with actors offline and I don't think I've fully done it online. And so if you're willing to go there, I'd really appreciate it. When you're playing a role, I think as a viewer, we massively underestimate how hard acting is, especially when the role is the kind of role that you're playing in the crowded room. I think we just underestimate as a viewer. And I'm fortunate enough to know enough actors offline where I've had these conversations before, whether it's people who do method acting or whether it's people who, you know, really try and get into character.

1:04:43Like you always hear about the stories of like how Jared Leto, when he was becoming the Joker, was sending people rats and human feces in their mail, like literally live. I'll tell you what, if you send me human feces in my mail, there'd be trouble. I wouldn't be putting up with that you and Gerard Leto in a boxing match yeah there'd be a boxing movie then but you know that idea of like I think I think as viewers we don't it's what I'm saying is like when I went on tour I was like I get it I get it now as viewers we don't get it because we don't really hear about the deep process that actors go through of getting into a role playing someone with multiple personalities like you know I don't know is that tough or is it Or is that not, am I getting it wrong?

1:05:23And that's not actually the tough part. You're definitely not getting it wrong. I think it's just different. It's case by case, you know. There are people like Jared who dive into their roles and they do things like sending people dead rats and stuff like that. And they think that that's what they need to do. I've always been really good at separating my onset emotions from my personal life emotions. As a young kid, I used to really heavily rely on my personal emotions to get them to come across on screen. and I just found it really unhealthy. I just found that like the line between my life and my character's life would be blurred and ultimately at the end of the experience of making the film, I would be a very different person but not because of my experiences as Tom, it would be because of my experiences as my character.

1:06:07So I decided very early on to find certain techniques and certain ways to get into those emotions from a sort of technical point of view. I never sit on set and think about my mum getting sick or never speaking to my brothers again or something like that. I never blur the lines with my personal life and my work life. I always leave work at work. There are jobs like The Crowded Room that are particularly taxing. Getting to those emotions on a daily basis is really difficult and really tiring. But, you know, it's probably somewhat like Coldplay on that 89th show. You just dig your heels in. You realise you've got a job to do.

1:06:45we're all wonderfully well paid there are people that work far harder for far less i recognize how lucky i am so i'm like if i need to cry today and tomorrow and the next 50 days in a row i'll do so yes it's difficult but i think your question i'm probably the worst person to ask that because i think i have like a really healthy having the right people in your corner to support you is a great form of self-care just like the friend who shows up to a housewarming party when you get that dream home, celebrates your big promotion, or goes with you on a walk to clear your mind, State Farm is there to help you feel supported.

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1:09:15But I have worked with people that shut their bedroom door and just dive into the character and are pouring through the script every night and are in character all the time. And I admire them. I don't necessarily think it's the healthiest way to go about it. But yeah, I've always been really strict on myself to leave my work at work. Obviously, I come home and read the script and do all of my prep work, but I'm not. I'm leaving the character at work because it's too it's too much especially when you're playing a character like like Danny from The Crowded Room like you can't bring that into your personal life it's tough yeah yeah I mean that but I'm actually glad I asked it to you either way because what I'm actually hearing is you did it early on and you saw it wasn't healthy sure and so you actually found another way yeah and and it's really interesting because a lot of people may not have found another way or that is their way and that is their method and so it actually is interesting hearing it from your perspective because you're actually saying yeah I could have gone down that road sure I could see the dangers with it right and and obviously it depends on the roles too sorry you're gonna say no it's just it's my acting coach Ben Perkins was my acting coach on my first film and that film's really really emotionally intense and we started off by doing things like can you imagine you know your mum passing or can you imagine things like that and I would cry instantly.

1:10:32And he was the one that actually recognized at a point, this is too much for this young kid to kind of take. So he devised these exercises where him and I could kind of have these fake arguments where I was as a 12-year-old, oh, maybe I was older than that, 13-year-old could recognize that they were exercises and I would allow the emotion to kind of come from these kind of acting techniques, let's call it. so it was actually ben that was the one that switched my my mindset i can't take credit for that yeah so you you live in la yeah so i moved to la five years ago yeah and i moved to the state seven years ago so i was in new york for the first two whereabouts in new york were you i was on 23rd street near flat iron okay nice so yeah it was good in in manhattan and uh moved with my wife we've been married for seven years together for 10 fantastic and uh yeah it's just been really interesting mate it's like did you ever end up moving did you ever live in LA or at all or in the US at all or have you always been in London sort of what we were talking about earlier I've kind of lived all over the place I've lived in LA I've lived in New York I've lived in Atlanta you know I've lived in Cleveland which was amazing um so I I really like spending time in the States yeah we just obviously crowded room we did a year in New York yeah we moved to drive back we started off in Midtown and Midtown for me was a bit of a nightmare it's where the schools are So I'd come home from work and I'd come outside and it's like all the biggest Spider-Man fans you've ever seen in your life.

1:11:58Oh my God. Yeah, it's like the worst planning of all the kids. We moved out to Tribeca to this amazing apartment, which was really lovely. We were very lucky to be down there. But where, so how do you find LA? So you know what? It's really interesting because when I moved to New York first and I loved it, I found New York to be just a bigger, crazier London. Sure. A bit more intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love London. I'm a London boy through and through. I went to university here. My family's still here. My wife's family's here. Everyone's here. And so, but I enjoyed New York. My wife didn't love New York.

1:12:33And also at the same time, I started spending more time in LA for work. And my wife and I just like fell more in love with each other when we were there. And so that's what it was that drew us there. It wasn't really, everyone's always like, oh, was it career? I was like, to be honest, we went there for a month for work and we rented an apartment because we're going to be there for a month. and we're living together there and we just loved living with each other there. Home is where the heart is. Yeah, exactly. And so we were like, all right, we love it here. Why don't we pack our bags and move across?

1:13:01And so we went back to New York two months later. We moved over to LA. So it wasn't even, you know, and now we've been there for five years. And the truth is that I was really intentional when I moved somewhere. So while I'm building my purpose and my work and my career, which I absolutely love what I get to do every day and I could never have dreamed of doing what I do today. I'm super grateful. But at the same time, I was really intentional about building community and family. And it was like an actual like thought process where I was like, as well as you're always building the people, you know, at work, you're always building relationships, you're hiring employees and team members and everything.

1:13:35At the same time, I've got to think about actually making friendships because in London, I've got all my mates. I've got my best man at my wedding. I've been mates with Raj for like 17 years. Like I've got people around me, but in LA, I don't have that. I don't have any family, any friends. I don't know anyone. And so I've really made an effort. And now after five years, I can honestly say, you know, obviously not in a wonderful way, but the pandemic did help deepen some of those friendships because I was stuck with those people. So I only could go deeper. Made some really good friends. Nice. And so I feel happy there and I feel really connected to my purpose there.

1:14:07And at the same time, I love coming back to London. Right. And hanging out with my mates. And so I've, and me and my wife made a decision when we moved that we would never say we lived anywhere. We would just be allowed to go wherever we wanted to go. So whenever my wife misses London, she's back on a flight to London. She'll come live here for two months and come back whenever she wants. And it's the same for me. And that kind of like not having a rule around, you know, obviously we're lucky to have that choice. That's an amazing luxury to have. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But yeah, I share the same kind of outlook on it.

1:14:37You know, I couldn't really say I live anywhere. I sort of live where the work is. And when I'm not working, I'm either here or in LA. And I'm so lucky to be able to sort of call the world my home. I just go wherever the wind takes me. yeah yeah exactly but that's glorious yeah man yeah it's been good it's been good for me it's been good to me and and i think because of the work i do it very clearly lets people know whether i'd connect them or not i feel like my work is so obviously one way sure that it's very easy because not everyone wants this in their life so it's kind of easy for people to be like no i'm not going to make any effort with jay i'm going to make lots of effort with jay and so it kind of makes it very easy because my work is me do you find because of what you do and your skill set and your experiences and your life as a monk that people unload on you a lot yes like you might meet a new person and they're sort of saying well i'm feeling this way and i would love to try and get to a place of enlightenment like that must happen to you a lot yes yeah a lot it can happen at the train station it can happen on a plane it can happen anywhere in the world yeah and do you welcome those conversations do you like having those sorts of conversations so i think it depends where we are sure and and it depends who it is and i always say to people as a disclaimer that i don't want to give you the belief that i can solve your life in 30 seconds yeah right or that i could ever solve your life for you totally just to be really clear that and i always say that to people because people are like jay tell me what i need to do and i'll be like look i just wanted to be fully aware that i'm happy to share some insights with you but i don't have the power or gift or magical ability to transform your life and nothing I can say in 30 seconds I don't even want to take that responsibility on because we should really think about this like you should reflect on your life like especially when people are making big decisions where it's like Jay should I break up should I move country should I do this and I'm like we're not solving this in 30 seconds like please don't this is a bigger conversation yeah and I like people that takes the pressure off me but it also takes the pressure off them yeah because a lot it's not even about me this is about the fact that that person needs to make a really important decision and they're putting all the pressure of their life on that moment and actually i'm saying well let's just take it off and here's a few things i want you to reflect and think about sure and i know that will help you and you'll figure it out and so yeah i welcome them because i appreciate that i don't feel that i'm the one holding space and i don't believe that i'm the one who has the power to hold space i believe that the universe holds space i believe that energetically that space is held for others and i don't feel i'm this powerful human being who's who's the one that everything rests on sure and has the answer to everything and i think that's what allows me to be liberated from it yeah where i'm not like i also don't put the pressure on myself going god i better say the most perfect thing to this i better change this person's life yeah and i can't and i don't and i think once upon a time i probably did feel that way like when you're when you're immature and you're an amateur in your work you almost feel like you have to have all the answers And now I'm like, you know what, I don't, and it's fine.

1:17:36And actually people really appreciate it when you just chat to them and, you know. And so, yeah. And again, you know, I'm always happy to listen to someone when I can. Obviously there's sometimes when I'm like rushing late for a plane or I'm trying to get into a car or whatever. And I can't do it. But I always stop and say hello, give someone a hug and all the rest of it. So I don't know if that answers your question. No, absolutely it does. I guess what you're saying about making decisions, something that I am constantly battling with myself is the inner battle between my gut and my brain. I know that sounds really weird.

1:18:08No, it's real. I go with my gut a lot. I'm very, very, I think a lot of the decisions I make in life are very sort of instinctual. I don't like to be bombarded with evidence and facts and all that sort of stuff. I just like to feel a certain way about how I would like something to sort of transpire. It can be taking a film, accepting a script, doing a business deal, buying a house. like it's all sorts of different things through your monk life. Did you feel like you would rely on your kind of inner instincts rather than like getting the evidence of this is going to make you this much money. Or if you do that, these are the risks.

1:18:45How do you, where do you stand with that sort of thing? That was the most poorly worded question, but you know what I mean? No, no, no, mate. I think both, I think this has been such a conversation that that is what a question sounds like in a conversation. Right. And I think I've asked you fairly poorly worded questions today as well, but I think that's what real communication is. Why are we having a chat? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, rather than like, mate, I've got question one. Right. But no, I think I get what you're saying. And if I go on the wrong track, let me know. But living as a monk, you're trained to understand that everything exists in a certain mode.

1:19:17And so I'll explain what that means. And so in the monk philosophy, there are three modes. And the modes are the mode of ignorance, the mode of passion, and the mode of goodness. and it said that every decision, every thought, every action, every intention, every relationship can be in the mode of ignorance, mode of passion or mode of goodness. And the mode of ignorance is where your relationships or any act is based on insecurity or fear. So when you're doing something out of fear or you're doing out of insecurity or you're doing out of pressure, that's considered the mode of ignorance. And energetically, we all feel that, right?

1:19:51Like you know, whether you, I would know whether you were being forced to do this interview today out of some sort of fear or some sort of whatever it may be. The mode of passion is where you're doing something because you want a certain result. You're doing it just for the reward. You're doing it just because it's going to get you what you want. It's going to get you to the goal. And so that's considered the mode of passion. And again, energetically, you can tell that when someone has an agenda or someone wants something out of you. I've come here to get my point across on something. Totally.

1:20:22And then finally, the mode of goodness is the energy of like, I feel really at peace. I feel really at ease. This feels aligned with my values and therefore it feels like the right decision. And so we were trained to sense energetically whether things felt like the mode of ignorance, mode of passion or mode of goodness, which was a really helpful framework because sometimes things were really hard to just sense without knowing where it sat in terms of a characteristic. That's so interesting. And so that was really, really helpful at the time. And so I find that I'm the same as you where I make decisions energetically.

1:20:58Yeah. But I think having moved into the real world again, I felt that I had to start getting used to understanding other elements. Kind of what you mentioned earlier, which I loved, which was like, I wish they had a class on life at school because it's like, you haven't paid your bill and there's football players not paying their taxes or whatever it may be. And like, that may be for different reasons. But anyway, you get the point that there's some things that you just don't know. And so what I've started to do, and I've said this a few times, and that's why it's a little formula that I use. When I sit down with someone, whether it's business, whether it's relationships, whether it's work, even whether it's this, the first thing is always energy.

1:21:36That's my first gate that I want to get through. And if I don't feel energetically aligned with someone, then already there's no future here. Like it's not going anywhere. And then the next thing I look at is strategically, if it's business, so if it's personal, it's only energy. But if it's business, I look at, well, I like this person energetically. Do I think they're strategically aligned with where this has to go? Like, do I think they can actually implement this? Do I believe? Because a lot of people have great energy, but then they don't know how to implement anything. And then finally, I look at, well, does the money align?

1:22:09Does the monetary value align with the energy and strategy? Sure. That's been my business version of what I learned as a monk. So what you're saying then, that is a combination of both. Correct. allowing like your gut, your energy to kind of allow yourself to pursue further the opportunity. And then you take a sort of mental look at it to be like, I'm accepting the opportunity from an emotional point of view. Now I need to see if it makes sort of logical sense. Correct. And if it doesn't, then we're going to stop there again. Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. So I've found that more useful for me because I found that energetically, I can get excited about a lot of stuff.

1:22:46Yeah. I'm the same. Yeah. And I'm that kind of person. And again, I never want to block that. Sure. At the same time, I think we have to become more selective with our opportunities and know when to say no and know how to manage stuff. And that's at least helped me. Sure. So again, I'm not saying anyone has to live like that. I'm just, that's what's working. No, it's interesting. It's really interesting. I am very much like go off my gut. Yeah. I tell you what, my mum is an unbelievable judge of character. Wow. And I think she might have without knowing what you're talking about, where she can pick up on people's energies.

1:23:16Yeah. because we can meet a new person as a family. We've met this new person. Three of us could love this new person and another three could not like this new person. And my mum will be like, no, no, don't like that person. And then within six months, all of us are like, do you remember that person that we were really good friends with for a little bit? She's really got a keen eye for people that we would get along with. Yeah, that's amazing. She's amazing like that. Mums are like that. Now that you say that, all my mates who let me down when I was a teenager, my mum called it every time. Yeah, absolutely.

1:23:46Every time. And I was like, mom, no, they're my best friend. I'm never going to leave them. They're like a brother to me. And then like seven months later, the person stab you in the back. And then you're like, oh, mom, like, you know. But the good thing about moms is they wouldn't judge you for it. Yeah, they do. You know, they're like, look, I told you, but you had to make your own mistakes. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's interesting that you've been able to hold on to that. And I love that. Do you feel like, you were asking me about moving to LA. And I think, what have you felt? And there's a part of you that's obviously wanting to be back in Kingston, be back to who you are.

1:24:15have you felt that there's been parts of yourself that have been challenged i don't feel sitting with you today that you know i i don't know you before i don't know you after i've only met you today so i i can't judge who you are or what you enjoy i all i can say is that when i'm sitting with you today i feel like i'm sitting with an authentic individual and your energy comes across very easily thank you do you feel like you've had to hold on to that at times with opportunities challenges the industry or or is that all stuff that we kind of make up in our heads and it's actually just be yourself and you're fine?

1:24:46I really don't know the answer to that question. I, I, I've definitely walked away from a lot. And I think had I not walked away from certain situations, let's just put it at that, I would be a very different person today. I've been really good at keeping in touch with my friends, keeping my family close, listening to the lessons, not getting caught up in the Hollywood hype. Like I really am a massive fan of making movies, but I really do not like Hollywood. It is not for me that the business really scares me. I understand that I'm a part of that business and I enjoy my kind of interactions with it.

1:25:20But that said, I am always looking for ways to kind of remove myself from it to kind of just live as normal a life as possible. Today, doing this is a very rare thing for me to do. Like in London, to come in and speak to someone about my life is something I would not typically do. But because I'm a fan of yours. And I was keen to kind of hear what you had to say and chat to you today. I felt like this would be a safe space for me to do that. But yeah, I definitely think it has been an ongoing thought, which is don't lose yourself. I've seen so many people come before me and lose themselves. And I've had friends that I've grown up with that aren't friends of mine anymore, because they've lost themselves to this business.

1:26:06And I just am really, really keen to focus on what makes me happy, which is my family. It's my friends. It's my carpentry, my golf, um, the charity that my mom runs like that is the stuff that makes me really happy. And that's the stuff that I should protect. My relationship is the thing that I keep most sacred. I don't talk about it. I try my best to keep it as private as possible. We both feel very strongly that that is the healthiest way for us to move on as a couple. Um, so I do try to keep as removed from it as possible. Like you'll never see me at an award show that I don't have to be at.

1:26:41I'm never going to a red carpet event that I'm not in the film of, you know, I don't want the attention when I don't need it. I love the spotlight. I love the pressure that comes with it. Just watch that tennis documentary, Breaking Point. I haven't seen it yet. You've got to see it. It's amazing. I never realized how brutal tennis was. I've always been a huge tennis lover. I am now absolutely in awe of what those athletes go through. But there's a quote from Billie Jean King that's on the stand at her stadium in New York that says pressure is a privilege. And that is so true. Like, oh my God, feeling pressure on a daily basis in the capacity that we feel is such a privilege.

1:27:20I love feeling pressure. I feel like I thrive under pressure. The best golf I've ever played in my life is when there are cameras around and people are watching. I just think that that is a real amazing thing to be able to experience. So I enjoy it while I can. And then when it becomes a much i kind of become a bit of a recluse and i disappear i come back to kingston i play golf i play tennis i hang out with my friends and my family do the pub quiz and and all that sort of stuff yeah um so yeah so it is something i actively try to do as i get older it only gets easier yeah yeah absolutely yeah and i i can i can relate to that where in in my in my small way or in my world where a lot of my friends think like i'm in la like always at events always applies i'm not i'm like in bed by 9 30 p.m right and i only live there because it works for me in in the world that i do and what i do and sure and and i enjoy living in la but it's it i don't live there for hollywood and i think that's often the perception as well where it was like oh you're all hollywood now and i'm like well no not really like i i don't really i don't really go to all the events and gatherings and stuff unless i need to be there or sure i'm connected to a project so so i relate to that what you mentioned a few things there but if i had to ask you as tom when do you feel most yourself like when do you feel most connected or and what are you trying to reconnect to if you're like well i know what it is but i'm still figuring it out again i think when i feel most myself is to do my relationships i'm going to leave that and not talk about that absolutely but i think the other thing and this is such a stupid thing but it's when i'm playing good golf like there's something about how golf is the most humbling sport in the world it doesn't matter who you are doesn't matter how much money you've got how successful you are golf will batter you no matter who you are.

1:29:00And I love, that's what I love about it. You know, it's such a leveling sport. I love going to a golf course and meeting new people that I've never played with before playing around a golf. I struggle when I don't play badly. Like I've got a bit of a temper and like you're supposed to have 14 clubs in your bag. I currently have nine and you can probably guess why. Um, but I, I just love being outside. I've always been an outdoorsy person. I love being on the golf course. I love my mates. They all love playing golf. there's just something about the challenge of shooting lower than your lowest score that really kind of takes my mind off of the work the interesting thing about golf is that you could be having a terrible day you could be really upset about something and if you play really well you completely forget about it if you play really badly you then are playing badly because of what's happening outside of golf it's like a really weird kind of catch 22 i guess yeah um but i love it i I think when I'm playing good golf is when I feel most like myself.

1:29:59Yeah. Wow. That's a unique answer, but I get it. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah. I've only ever played golf like twice in my life. Right. And I totally get the point of how humbling it is, is horrendous. No matter how quickly you pick up other things in life, golf is not one of those things that you pick up that easily. Oh, mate, you can sign the biggest deal of your life and go out to play golf to celebrate and it will ruin your day. Like absolutely ruin your day. Don't go out to play golf to celebrate. No, never go out to celebrate. No, crazy. Do you still play any sport? I love playing football when I'm back here.

1:30:33So that's one of the things. My mates know that when I'm back in London, we're going to play a game of football. Where do you play? Well, we'll just play on like a seven-a-side pitch or a five-a-side pitch like close to northwest London, which is where most of my mates are. So like Stanmore, Edgware, Watford, that's like where all my main mates are. And so we'll just go rent a pitch, kick a ball about. I'm not any good anymore, but I still got the full kit and the socks. Yeah, yeah, love it. I always look dressed to impress, bro. I've actually got Neymar's kit, like, from him. Oh, wow. So you best believe I'll show up to Fiverr's side in his full kit.

1:31:03I love it. I love it. Is it signed by him, too? No, it's not signed by him. Yeah, that's just his kit. We went on a lad's holiday to Portugal recently to play golf. And at the resort we were staying at, the people were so nice. They said, let's have an England versus Portugal football match. There was, like, I think there was eight of us. And there was a bunch of Brits that were working at the resort. So they kind of joined our team. and we literally did England versus Portugal. It's a full-size pitch. We did 60 minutes, 30 minutes each way. I'm fit. I train every day. I absolutely love my fitness.

1:31:34I really, really like I'm into it. By the end, I could not make five paces without my legs cramping up. They are so fit, these football players. It's unbelievable. And we won. And it's so funny how the first 10 minutes of the game was really friendly, like soft fouls. Sorry, mate, like your free kick. And by the end, it was savvy. It was really intense. Wow. At least you won though. We won. I got an assist. It was actually a glorious assist as well, actually. I just pinged the ball over the top. My brother made a run and it bounced and he managed to get his foot to it and he chipped the keeper and scored.

1:32:09It was. But there's no footage. There's no footage. No proof. Yeah, no proof. Yeah, no proof. I sometimes think when the whole no proof thing, like we had the craziest experience of my life the other day. I'll tell you about it. Because our lives are so crazy, like there's no, why would I lie? but the other day we went swimming with killer whales in Mexico I said the other day it was last year and it was one of the most humbling experiences of my life there's no proof of it there's no evidence because it was so off the cuff we weren't planning on doing it so most people I tell are like you definitely didn't do that but we we were in we were in Mexico and we were on a boat and we just so happened to see this pod of orca Jack my security guard thought it'd be a good idea to jump in.

1:32:51He jumped straight in, flippers on, goggles on. And we were driving to keep up with the whales because they were kind of following our boat. So by the time Jack had jumped in, he was like this, he was like a hundred meters away and you could see him and the whales were like swimming around him. So I'm starting to freak out because he's a good friend of mine. And he's your security. And he's my security. I'm like, Jack, we got to get back to the hotel, bro. So I said to the guy like, excuse me, sir, can you turn around and go and get my friend? Because we now can't see him anymore like he's gone we found him we got him back in the boat and he sort of said like lads you have to get in there it's unlike anything you've ever seen before my brother harry's like googling whether or not it's safe to swim with them and it's sort of the general consensus online is don't go swimming with killer whales you can there's never been a recorded tack in the wild but they are wild animals as big as a bus and also jack's giving it like don't worry time I'll be there I'll look after I'm like Jack what are you gonna do bro like what's this whale the size to eat me so anyway we put the flippers on put the goggles on we find the whales they're sort of interacting with the back of the boat they're clearly curious and I just thought like I guess it goes back to what you're saying the mode of ignorance I just was like I'm gonna try and see what happens I jumped in my brother jumped in Jack jumped in we kind of came together we're 30 miles out of the coast so it's literally like dark blue water nothing below us and to my relief the whales had gone we couldn't see them so I'm sort of thinking oh well that's actually a bit of a touch at least I can say I jumped in and they have gone but then Jack said look down and we looked down and it came from beneath us and what has been such an interesting experience for me was as soon as I saw the whale, I wasn't scared anymore because I could just tell that it wasn't going to eat me.

1:34:47I don't know how to explain it, but you could just see from its body language. I remember it so vividly. It swam up to us. It was maybe 10 meters below us. And it was kind of motionlessly sort of just looking at us. And then it kind of rolled on its back. It did this weird thing where it kind of put its head like this and you could see its eye. Like we were having this crazy like moment and then it just swam off and it was gone. One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge or making a decision that brings you closer to a long-term goal, those moments of intention really matter.

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1:37:52If you've been waiting for the right moment this is it head to waldenu.edu and take that first step walden university set a course for change certified to operate by chev and for three hours afterwards i couldn't speak i had the biggest adrenaline dump i just basically was asleep but it was such an amazing experience to sort of meet the apex predator of the world and it kind of look at you and just swim away most people don't believe me because i believe there's no evidence but it was i think about it now and then it's you know it's so funny as well i see these i like our planet there's there's more footage of orcas hunting and another way in which they hunt there is no way i would do that again there's no way i'd get in there again but yeah it was amazing hearing you explain it is like you're so present yeah that you can tell that you just you were so present in that moment like you stop thinking about like, oh, well, you know, if I tell this after that no one's going to believe me or whatever it is, you're just like, wait a minute.

1:38:53Yeah. You know, nature makes you present like that. And that's what I love about nature is it's completely unbiased as well. Like if that whale wanted to have a snack, then, you know, it's not looking at you going, oh no, but that's a famous person. I've got to leave him alone. Or it just, you are at one with mother nature. We're in the middle of the ocean. There's nothing we could do. And we just were able to enjoy it somewhat, maybe like being in the cave like you were saying it was just about us and this whale my brother and i were holding hands but then as soon as it presented itself to us any stress just dissipated and it was just this unbelievable experience and it was so leveling it was so humbling that it makes me feel like i can take on certain things so it was honestly even thinking about the experience now my heart is racing yeah i can imagine yeah it was it was wild yeah it was a cool that's Unbelievable.

1:39:43That's an incredible experience. And it is different from the cave though, because I do think it's different when you're with another living being. Sure. And so that's what I found. My closest experience to what you're talking about is I went trekking with, well, looking for mountain gorilla in Rwanda last year. Oh, that's top of my list. I would love to do that. Yeah, we should do it. I would do that again any day because it was unbelievable. So you're not, again, these gorillas are not like in a park or something. No, no, no. They're a mountain gorilla. They're in their world. And you go and look for them and there's no tagging devices or any tech.

1:40:19There's people who have watched the gorilla for so many years that they know where their droppings are. They know where families hang out. They know what their routines are. So depending on what time you're going out, there's someone who's just around them who's calling your guide saying, walk this way. This is where you got to go. Exactly. Just to make it very, very clear that the gorilla is being treated very well. so you're literally looking around and you could be on the lookout for them for like two to six hours. Wow. You may not find them. You're just hiking. So I love that though, that you might not find them.

1:40:49Yeah, you might not find them. So we found them in two hours. One group that we heard about, because you go in smaller groups of like 10, the other group that we are friends with, they took eight hours to find gorillas, but they saw them too. And when I went, I was kind of like, oh, we're going to see one gorilla, whatever. Like they're going to be far away. Like I was a bit skeptical because I didn't know how it was going to be. And it was incredible because we looked around for two hours and I'll show you the video afterwards but we got and we just saw them like hanging out kind of like how I'm looking at everyone here just hanging out still and then all of a sudden they all started walking together and there was a family of 20 gorillas and you've got two silverbacks that are like you know they're like their fists are like you know just huge yeah exactly and and it was really interesting because the guides who were there with us they said to us that when you go close to them kind of like and this is why I remembered it and why i'm telling you it's because when you were talking about the way the whale looked at you and it was kind of like you knew it wasn't going to eat you yeah yeah yeah and so they were saying that when you get close to these gorillas the only thing you can't do is you can't touch their kids and you can't touch them yeah so you can't drop something near their kids and then try get it back because they'll think you're trying to harm their kids but what they recommended was they said you had to make this sound when you see them and this sound means we come in peace and so the sound was so that's you have to make that sound I was like alright this is some Disneyland stuff yeah yeah yeah I was like yeah I'm not believing this stuff like whatever I was like alright I'm going to play around with it and so I'm walking around so we go to the gorilla and we get close to them and I made that sound because we were told they were like make that sound and then the gorilla did it back and it was just unbelievable and then there was this one moment where we were walking and we were literally surrounded by gorilla and that's when I was like a bit scared because they were like all around us.

1:42:33And like, literally, if they ran at you, like I'm done, right? Yeah, it's nothing you can do. Nothing you can do. And so we're walking, they're walking around us and this massive silverback came up. So my business manager was with me as well. And so he's there. He's like my godfather in LA. Like he really takes care of me. So very close to him. And so this big gorilla that walks behind him and I'm looking at him going, oh man, And he stopped and we're all looking at him because he's got this massive silverback behind him. And we're all like, how do we tell him to move? And the guy's like, just be still, just be really present.

1:43:08You can't freak out. And the gorilla just went behind him. And he moved out the way and just walked past. And it was that same presence that you're feeling that I felt with them. And that's what I mean. Being with another living being is spectacular. so do you think that level of ease comes from the helpless nature of being in the presence of an animal that could do to you whatever they want to like i think part of the reason why i felt so calm when the whale had come up was because there was nothing we could do should it go sideways yeah and i think being almost finding that kind of inner peace of like i've made my mind this is the choices I've made I'm here now there's nothing I can do it's almost like you should make peace with your choices I guess yeah I don't know no no no I think that's I think you've actually taken it somewhere really beautiful mate I think for me as well it's humility yeah that's what and like when you when you meet someone new rarely are we humble sure we we often feel the pressure to be like or look at who I am or like you know or we're trying to create even if it's not our ego there's a certain sense of like wanting to gain people's like and respect yeah and you want to impress No matter what I do, this whale or gorilla is not going to like or respect me.

1:44:24So I better just be humble about it and at peace, as you said. And it levels you. And it levels you and it allows that human being, that being also, of course, it's not, you know, of course, we're not recommending that you just go into these places. I wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. But the idea being that I do think there's something magical about nature where humility is kind of nature's way. and it is that what you're saying that when you're at peace with your choices and you're at peace with here we are, here I am, I can't do anything and guess what? It's okay. Right, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's somewhat sort of like I've made a decision.

1:44:58If the decision is a mistake, you've got to live with it because you made it. Yeah, I want to talk about sports because I was thinking, so I play a lot of tennis, play a lot of football. Love it. I play a lot of pickleball now. You play a lot of pickleball, okay. Because that's become a thing. Big LA thing, yeah. But I'm massively more into paddle. I don't think you've ever - I love paddle tennis. I love paddle. Paddle tennis is so fun. I want that to blow up in the US, but it's not going to. So when I went to Dubai and I went to Miami and I went to Madrid because it's big in Spain. Mate. Are they playing it here?

1:45:26Yeah. My local tennis club has got two courts. No way. And like you can't book them. They're so sold out. All right. Honestly, paddle tennis. I love tennis. Yeah. I think tennis is one of the best sports in the world. Yeah. And I think that, you know, they are the highest performing athletes, some of, in the world. But it's really hard tennis. Like I find unless I'm playing with someone who's much better than me, I don't play well. Like I really, I need to be chasing someone. Paddle tennis is so social. It's easy to have great rallies. You still get the satisfaction of really smacking a ball. Because pickle is, it's all about placement and trying to kind of one up your opponent.

1:46:06Yeah, you're playing at the kitchen and just doing the dick. Yeah, exactly. Why is it called a kitchen? I have no idea. So I play pickle like paddle. Right. because I'm like no it's nonsense like why? I do like pickle but paddle tennis paddle's amazing next time yeah yeah paddle's one of my favourite favourite I was in Dubai with a client for work for months a couple of years back I played it every day for three months that's great exercise yeah it's the best workout the most fun like time just flew is amazing but I was bringing it back to sports because I was saying you know you personally tried to recruit Mbappe for Tottenham.

1:46:44I did, yeah. And I just thought that was amazing because I was like, I've never seen this ever happen before where, you know, someone's using their clout in the right way. Listen, I saw him. I'm a mad Tottenham fan and I just thought now's my chance. And he said, no, the deal didn't go through. No signing bonus for myself. That was a crazy trip that going to the Ballon d 'Or. We were there for Spider-Man. Spider-Man was coming out. I'm not really sure how that was promo for Spider-Man, but like it was part of our trip for some reason. But it was amazing meeting these players and I admire them so much.

1:47:16It's incredible when you can notice other athletes and other greatness. And I see that at the top. We've talked a lot today about, and you're really good at this, I feel like you're quite tuned in to admiring and observing greatness and the 1 % and trying to figure out what they're doing differently. And I think that's one of the things I've definitely seen of the 1 % is that there's a humility in that they have the ability to appreciate other people's greatness and skills and values and purpose. Like they're not looking at it going, I'm the best of all time. Sure. There's a part of that. They may have to say that for the cameras or they may have to say that before they go on the pitch.

1:47:53But actually, if you talk to them and you ask them about someone else, they'll be like, yeah, best player I've ever seen. Like they're incredible. And so who did you admire growing up and acting? Who do you admire today? Like who have been the people that, and maybe on a mindset level or maybe on a, or a performance level as well. There are definitely performances of people that I look up to. There are the types of careers of certain actors that I really admire. There are also like the types of lives that certain people lead that I really admire and that I really aspire to sort of be like. I tend to let all of my admiration go towards athletes.

1:48:29I'm just so blown away by what they can do under the pressure that they're under. Me as an actor, I realize that my job is a high-pressure job because it reaches millions of people. But that said, there are so many people that help me get to where I need to be. I get picked up, someone makes me breakfast, someone writes the words that I'm supposed to say, someone chooses my costume, someone does my hair and makeup, someone sets the camera up. Ultimately, I walk onto set and I do my bit, but I'm a small part in a massive machine. But when you look at someone like Djokovic or Federer or, you know, this new Alcaraz, you know, or the golfers or Lewis, Lewis is slightly different because Formula One is so much about the team and the car and all that sort of stuff.

1:49:17They have to do it themselves at a certain point. There's only so much help they can get. But then when they walk onto that court for the first time, when they walk into the ring or into the octagon, it's them by themselves. They're under that amount of pressure. It's up to them whether they deliver or not. And I just have always been admiring of seeing some of the greats lose their win streak and come back even stronger. I've always really been an admirer of people that are able to do that. I think it's a folly when you see these win streaks of 50 and 0 and all that sort of stuff. And you're like, well, that to me isn't what a champion is a champion is someone who had it all lost it all and got it right back again Tyson Fury's story is a crazy one I'd love to see AJ come back and be on top again because I'd love to be alive to witness that legacy that he would leave behind you know I feel sorry for him what happened to him when he sort of seemed to really lose it a little bit in the ring when he took the microphone and I'd love to see him back on top and to to have some clarity and to be a champion again because i admire him as an athlete so i save most of my admiration for athletes and musicians i love musicians i see someone like ed sheeran yeah 80 000 people in the palm of his hand i think comedians are equally as talented the ability that they can just go on stage and make people laugh that is terrifying actors for me because it's what i do yeah it's like you know yeah yeah i get i get what you're saying i get what you're saying and at the end of the day it's just it's it's taking what you can from from what you aspire for all right like you you can take something from all these people right and and what i love about it some of these people you know some of these people you don't but i always say to people who are listening and watching that you can be mentored by people you've never met you're right and i think that's a really important skill to gain because i think we live in a world right now where somewhat access has become easier and we always think we need access to people directly in order to learn from them but you don't know everyone you've just mentioned even though you may know a couple of them closely and and same with me like i was really fortunate you know growing up as a teenager i got introduced to like martin luther king's work and malcolm x's work and i was reading crazy stuff at that age but it had a massive impact on my mindset i never met all those people and obviously would never have got the opportunity to do that but i feel mentored by them yeah without ever having sat in the same room as them because you study like how they made decisions and you study what they said and what they wrote what they stood for what they stood for and how and and and the parts that you don't hear through history the parts that were actually more difficult and of course the parts where they weren't the perfect hero right and so all of that kind of stuff but tom before we go to the final five you've been so gracious with your time today i have to ask you if if you want to clarify the harry kane situation because i'll tell you what the reason why i say this is i had the dream so i'm a manchester united support everyone on my community knows that very well right uh i have always had the dream that harry kane when wayne rooney retired harry kane was going to come to manchester united okay and he was going to follow in the footsteps of all the great england forwards that have played okay manchester united that didn't happen no i'm still holding on to that dream but you want him to go somewhere else well listen listen let me just clarify right i love harry kane i love human son human son is my favorite football player he is a hero i love tottenham i'm a big Tottenham fan, but I just, I know that those players could thrive and have the best careers ever.

1:52:42I just want to see, I want to see Harry lifting a trophy and I want to see Son there by him. And, and, and I just don't think you're rooting for the individual. Yeah. Yeah. I'll always be a Tottenham fan. You know, I love being a Spurs fan. My brother, Harry and I, you know, we've really pondered over it, but I just, you know, Harry Kane's one of the best strikers in the world and um he would fit into almost any team and i'd love to see him on top yeah and i interesting question do you think he would have had a similar season to harland had he gone to city oh oh that's uh i i personally think because i think harland's amazing i think harland with his age his strength and his mentality you know what's crazy about harland is i saw this interview and you know obviously it hurts me to say it but city and all but when harlan did this interview he just scored like i can't remember which game it was he's unbelievable he scored like five goals that game and he was like i should have had seven and and the interview was like come on though take some credit like you scored five goals and he was like yeah i'm i'm happy with that but he goes you know there were a couple of assists that should have gone in and i thought that mentality you know that's a winner's mindset that's a winner's mindset i was like he was he knew exactly which opportunities he missed and i was like so i think it's an age thing yeah it's a strength thing i feel like harlan's kind of like i've always compared harlan to like ivan drago like he was made in the lab right right right he was made like he was manufactured to be this incredible talent and i think city's good with like he admits like he scores a lot of tap-ins and i think that's his game yeah but man there's no pitches on a scorecard you know no in a good way i'm saying i'm saying like he's been built in that way and city play that way i don't know if Kane's a tapping guy.

1:54:21Sure. His goals have generally been a bit more diverse in that sense. Magic. Yeah. Magic is the way I would describe Kane. Yeah. No, I love him. And obviously, it's a typical thing of like the press are out saying, oh, Tom Holland's begging Kane to leave. I'm not begging him to leave. I love that he's at our club because I'd be terrified to see where we'd be without him. But I just love to see him have the career I know he could have. What do you think of Jude Bellingham to Madrid? I think that's a great move. I love that. You just want everyone to do it. I love that. And what's interesting thing is that all of my friends in Spain are from Barcelona.

1:54:52I have one friend from Madrid. I've always been a big Barca supporter because I used to go to Barcelona all the time as a kid. I had a few weekends where I'd say to my mum and dad, I'm going to my friend's house and I would go to Barcelona. How did you pull that off, mate? Just sneaky, bro. If I told my Indian parents that, I was like, they'd know the dial tone straight away. Mate, I got caught. My mum called me up and was like, where are you? I was trying to say, I was at my friend's house. She said, no, you're not because I'm here. And I was in Loran Blas in Barcelona. But I just love players.

1:55:24I think Jude Belliam's amazing. And, you know, I just love to see what he could do there. I think it's, the thing for me is I love legacy. I love seeing what players can do. I'm less about the teams. That's what I love about tennis or golf. You know, it's not about the team. It's about the player. So I would just love to see what he could do there. And, you know, I'm sure one day we'll see England raise a trophy and we've got such a great young team and I admire them all. but yeah I think it's a great move for him he's only 19 or something like that it's insane yeah he's 19 that's wild he's a year older than my brother Paddy that's mental mate you've been amazing today honestly this has been some of the most fun I've had in a long time yeah me too thank you I appreciate it we ask everyone the final five and so these are the fast five questions which means answers have to be one word to one sentence maximum no more than that done and you don't have to write or spell them out So no, no, no problems.

1:56:19That'd be a long, that'd be a long segment. None of that. All right. So Tom Holland, these are your final five. Question one, what is the best advice you've ever received? To turn your nerves into excitement. I like that. That we've never had that on the show. I love that. All right. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever received? Move to LA, get a marijuana license and buy a hot tub. Who told you that? Mark Wahlberg. That's brilliant. No, he told me that on a chat show. So I don't know if that was legit advice, but I didn't take his advice. Okay, good. Who would you have been if you took that advice?

1:56:52Who knows? All right, question number three. What's the first thing you do every morning and the last thing you do every night? Make my bed. It's the first thing I do. And the last thing I do before I go to bed, admittedly, is I check my emails, which I shouldn't do. But that is what I do. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah, we ask that just to make you aware of what you need to change. I do need to change that. Making my bed is a good start. I used to never do that. And now like my first thing I do is I make my bed. That's like my first challenge of the day. It's a good, it's an easy one to get done. Question four, what's something you're trying to learn at the moment?

1:57:25I'm currently taking golf lessons. And we see a trend. It's not going very well. Where are you at at the moment? The thing is with golf is that the golf swing is a very, very particular thing. So in order to get better, you do have to take quite a few steps backwards. I've taken maybe 25 sets backwards but I will benefit from it eventually Are you doing it every day? Every day Not lessons every day but I practice every day I've always said that to my wife I was like I want to go away for a month and I want to get a trader I'm going to play golf every single day Oh mate I know a great teacher Yeah that's the only way I had a really so one of my clients took me to PXG in Arizona Yeah which is like this beautiful place Bob Parsons place and I had a coach there for two days and I was like half decent after two days because the coach was so good Yeah mate and when I got back to LA I tried to get a coach and I couldn't find a good one.

1:58:14And then I had a coach that literally, he came highly recommended, but it didn't work out for me. He, he didn't let me take like 0.7 of a swing before he gave me feedback. And I was like, I just need to hit a few. Like I need to kind of just, and it was like every time I was about to hit the board, I'd be like, nope. Sure, sure, sure. I was like, I just need to kind of like get a feel for it. And so. The guy I go to is a guy called James Heath. And he does most of his teachings off of feel. So it's not about numbers. It's not about results. It's more about how do you feel? he calls it the feels so like I'm working on twisting my hips more in my backswing and he will say to me how does that make you feel like physically where do you feel the stretch where do you feel the pain where do you feel the pinch that's what I need you to feel and I coming from a dancer's background that's a really great way for me to learn because everything in dancing is about feel so if you need a great teacher in London James Heath thank you shout out James Heath yeah shout out James Heath fifth and final question if you could create one law that everyone else in the world had to follow, what would it be?

1:59:14I don't know. I don't know what one law would solve the most amount of problems. What would you say? Curious. I'd probably go to something you said earlier, if I'm giving a genuine answer, like a real answer, is I really wish there was a life school. Oh, man. Like that would be it because I'm not saying that would solve all the problems in the world. No. But it would set people up. And when I say life school, I mean emotional mastery. I mean - 100%. Ego mastery. I mean the ability to be kind and empathetic and vulnerable and compassionate and create safe spaces. I think a life school that taught you how to be non-judgmental and non-critical of others without understanding them.

1:59:54I think that's what I mean by life school. So not just the like paying taxes and bills and stuff, but the life school of like, well, what if we didn't have to live in a world where we just said everything we wanted to and did everything we wanted to and got away with it? But I think the life lesson for me should be basic health and CPR and basic first aid training. It should be, like you said, creating an environment at school where young people feel more comfortable talking about themselves, what they're going through, you know, things that might be happening at home or things that are happening at school.

2:00:30Like, I think that that would be an amazing way for us. to be more expressive and more comfortable expressing. And again, like, I know I keep going back to it, but it's about what my show is about, which is you should feel empowered when asking for help. It should be something that you're proud of. Like you're recognizing that you have an issue. It might be an internal issue. It might be an external issue. But you are seeking help, which I think is very admirable. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do encourage and recommend everyone go watch The Crowded Room. I personally am loving it with my wife, honestly.

2:01:02Like, I barely watch TV shows, if I'm completely honest. and it's because I like something that makes me think and reflect and entertain me at the same time. Sure, great. And I think it does a brilliant job of doing all three. It's gripping. I'm trying to figure out what's going on next. Nice. At the same time, I'm like, it's amazing watching you being able to be this very different character to what we know you as. Sure. And that's really impressive. Oh, thank you. So even on a performance level, I'm like, I'm forgetting that you are Spider-Man. Nice. Right? Like, and that's how I watch movies where I'm like, can I forget who this person is?

2:01:41And or are they playing a caricature of themselves, obviously? Sure, sure, sure. And with you, I'm like, I don't even think to think it's you. Right, right, right. Like right now I'm talking to you and I've been watching the show. I'm like, oh, it's not even the same person. Sure. And that is really, really impressive on a performance standpoint. So thank you so much. You're the best. I really appreciate it. You've been on that. Yeah. Thank you, mate. Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose. Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve.

2:02:11And parents and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. And Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel, and even access to one-of-a-kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide.

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