Andy Cohen Built the Bravoverse. He Still Thinks Like a Producer.

21:03Like, the interesting thing is my show has not changed very much in 17 years. I mean, it's very, it's interactive. It's live. Graham Norton was a big influence. It's unscripted. It is. We don't pre-interview our guests. I had Rob Lowe on last night for a half hour. And he was like, God, that was so fun. And I remind people. I hate the pre-interview.

21:27Kara Swisher:Yes. I decline them all. I hate the pre-interview. Yeah. It sucks. No. One time Steve Jobs was like, are you going to give me the question? I'm like, I'm not. Right. Enjoy yourself. Right. Let's have a conversation. I mean, it's so much more interesting. Yeah, especially celebrities. Yes, exactly. And they come in and there are many celebrities who are scared to do my show because it's too dangerous for them because they know I'm going to go there. But I want people to leave happy is the thing. Yeah, it does have a lot of Graham Norton feel to it in a lot of ways. Who I think is brilliant. Me too.

21:59Kara Swisher:I think it's brilliant. Me too. I'm also stalking him.

22:04Kara Swisher:We'll be back in a minute.

22:18Kara Swisher:Support for this show comes from The Guardian. Trying to locate news sources that reliably separate fact from fiction can seem like looking for a needle in a haystack these days. Social media feeds, cable news, and subscription-based news outlets might be able to give you one version of the news, but not in the way that you need. You want news fast, but slow enough to actually absorb the information. Stateside with Kai Wright and Carter Sherman is here to do just that. The podcast tries to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions regarding the world at large at your own pace. Three times a week, hosts Kai Wright and Carter Sherman bring their expertise together to showcase different and engaging perspectives regarding the world today.

22:57Kara Swisher:They will use their collective knowledge to discuss the news, international affairs, climate, culture, sports, lifestyle, fashion, and wellness. Plus, The Guardian wants to emphasize they're not billionaire-owned, meaning they're free to report the whole picture without interference. Go to theguardian.com slash stateside to learn more and listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube starting May 13th. Ripple has been powering modern finance for a decade. We're leading the charge to bridge the gap between existing financial systems and the future of finance. You can have it all. Legacy, stability, and digital innovation.

23:34Kara Swisher:Systems that work with your other systems. Because with the right partner, the question isn't crypto or traditional finance. The question is simply, why choose? A new standard of modern finance. It's happening with Ripple. For informational purposes only, availability of products can vary and may be provided by different Ripple entities. You know that feeling when too many things fall through the cracks? Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform where people and agents work side by side to deliver more together. Create your first Monday agent today at Monday.com. I want to talk a little bit about the difficulties of the show.

24:11Kara Swisher:First, like reality Tuesday, it's not without its controversy. In 2024, a former Real Housewife filed a lawsuit against you in broad alleging the show create a hostile work environment where drug use and drinking were encouraged. The lawsuit is headed to trial, though you and the network refiled the motion to dismiss. There's a whole range of things around behaviors on the show. And then, of course, the unionization effort by Bethany Frankel, of all people, to unionize the housewives. And you've differentiated reality stars from actors saying, quote, you don't go to school to become a reality star.

24:39Kara Swisher:Reality stars typically have other jobs. So talk about these things. I mean, obviously, you run a business, too. I don't think people realize it. Well, I mean, what specifically do you want me to talk about? Well, the lawsuit first. The lawsuit. Well, I can't really speak to that. I will say there are, I'm so proud of the stories that we've told of the women who have either come into the show sober or gotten sober on the show. And there are so many examples of really incredible stories of sobriety on all of our shows. And I would argue that we really celebrate that. and if you see someone who's had too much to drink, I don't think it's an aspirational occurrence.

25:25Kara Swisher:On the show. Yeah. Where does this lawsuit go to? I don't know. You got to ask. Yeah. You don't know and you can't come in. What about the unionization? Do you think these people deserve to be unionized? There's a lot of them now. How many housewives do you have at this point? We have a lot of housewives. they are compensated really well. And I think that there are a whole list of reasons why I could tell you that I'm against that and why it all fell apart. I mean, most people who are on reality shows are on for one season. Most reality shows are competition shows where someone are coming on trying to cook or sing on American Idol.

26:10So most of them are compensated as such, and you're going on to win a contest. So that's a huge percentage of the shows. The shows where you're on for a long period of time, the longer you're on a show, the more money you make on the show. and the money that's being made on these shows is really good and also you're giving a platform to sell any variety of thing i mean you can actually if you work it correctly you can wind up with

26:44Kara Swisher:an incredible platform right yeah skinny girl right that she creates that's separate from you all is that yes that's separate from you you're saying you're giving the platform this is a contest and they're not actors, essentially. That's three things. Right, right. Does it take away from your show or in weird ways? Does what take away? All these, sort of the attack, those two? No, I mean, look, I think that in the hundreds of people that we've put on television and have had positive experiences with the shows, I think these are two examples of people saying, I didn't. And everyone has a story and an experience.

27:25But I would say overwhelmingly, we've got, you know, BravoCon, we do in Vegas, we've got 30 ,000 people going to absolutely idolize the almost 200 Bravo Leberties that go and take part in it. Yes, Bravo Leberties, Kara. And they are able to sell things at booths. They are able to. Like a giant Star Trek convention. Yes, I mean, they're, you know, yeah. I mean, and they're all compensated to be there. Right, right. So I would say it's an actually an incredible universe that we've created that makes a lot of people happy, including the people that are on the shows.

28:03Kara Swisher:When you think of the criticisms leveled at you, what do you think is a fair one that's changed, that you've changed yourself? Like a fair one? That's a good question. Well, I mean, I've had criticisms about sometimes the way I interview people or things like that. I mean, criticisms about me on the radio interrupting too much or, you know, things like that, which I think are always constructive and great. I feel I'm really proud of the way that we have worked with the people on Bravo. I'll stand 10 toes down on our entire, on the 20 plus years that I've been with this company and the shows we've produced and the relationships that we've had and the experiences that people have had on them.

28:56Kara Swisher:When you think about what you find the most successful of the ones on Bravo, like looking through this scrapbook, besides the house I chose, which is sort of the fulcrum, presumably. Right. Is there something that you're particularly proud of? Well, I mean, I'm proud of Below Deck, which is, I think, the perfect reality show. I mean, it's a workplace drama. People are actually paying to be charter guests on these boats. And there are real deadlines. Always a drunken lady. There's barely any HR on the boat. So there are, you know, the crew's hooking up. The guests are trying to hook up. Yeah, it's like Love Boat.

29:30There's a lot happening, yes. Love Boat, it is like Love Boat. Or it's like Downton Abbey, you know, on a boat. So it's really, it's a really fun show and it's a huge show. There are several spinoffs of that going. And Top Chef remains, you know, the leader in food television. I'm really proud of that. And Vanderpump Rules had an amazing 10-year run. I mean, Summer House is peaking right now. So there are some great unscripted shows.

30:00Kara Swisher:Is there one thing that didn't work that you were like? Oh, there's so many things that didn't work. That you like. Well, you know what? There was a show called NYC Prep that I was a, that it was a prep school kids in New York City. You're doing all the shows Gossip Girl. It was Real Life Gossip Girl. And we did it for one season. Right. And we couldn't do it again. All of the schools were like, wait, what? And the parents were like, wait, what? I mean, we did it for one season. It's a great show. It's very beloved in the canon. In the canon. Is there anything that, like, really upset you? That one upset you.

30:34Kara Swisher:It didn't work. It just, they couldn't do it again. Why don't you let the cat out of the prep school bag? We, the first show I produced for Bravo was, it was my conceit that all the big stars on TV were reality stars. So we brought back Battle of the Network stars. Oh, I love that show. From the 70s. No, you did that. We shot it in Pepperdine and we did it. We had the networks against each other. Pepperdine University, live from Los Angeles. Yes. Pepperdine University. And we put people from Project Runway against American idols and survivors and all these people. And it was just a bomb. And I was so sure it was going to be a big hit.

31:07Kara Swisher:Well, that was a thing of the 70s because you wear those short shorts. I know, yeah. You can't really do that today. It wasn't as good at the time. No, it wasn't. The things they subjected those TV stars to. If it had aired on E!, I think it would have been successful. Oh, you do? Successful, yes. Yeah. Is there any that you never made that you wanted to make? You know, Drag Race I wish we would have made. It seemed like Project Runway to us at the time. It was proposed to you? I think it may have been. Right. Yeah, I think it may have been. It just does work. Who's the sticker on your computer?

31:40Who is this?

31:40Kara Swisher:Oh, that's Betty White saying fuck you. Oh, that's Betty White. Saying you're staring at me. It looks like Agnes Nixon who created All My Children actually. Well, okay. All right. Now it's Betty White. Yes. You know, because she's the patron saint of all women these days. She'd be good on a celebrity show. Yes. If you did today. Yes.

31:59Kara Swisher:We'll be back in a minute.

32:12So like any good millennial, I have a love-hate relationship with Gen Z. It's the phenomenon rattling millennials. They just look at you. They want something bigger themselves. Lifestyle is a priority. Motivation is being inspired. But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z, it's undeniable that they're changing national politics.

32:33Kara Swisher:Generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties, many now more likely to identify as independent. So what is going on with the kids? I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists. That is just not the case. They are embracing candidates who are offering new, bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America Actually, Gen Z researcher Rachel Jambaza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction. It's not rocket science. And this is, you know, I keep saying like young voters aren't that complicated after all.

33:10It's pretty simple. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

33:40Kara Swisher:musical world, tracing the tales behind unforgettable songs and the artists and creative minds who've reshaped culture along the way. Will brings real lived-in expertise to the table as a former front man of the alt-pop band Parachute. He's earned platinum and gold records and played to sell-out crowds worldwide. That background, combined with his natural curiosity about music's history, turns every episode into an eye-opening journey. So whether you're a music history buff, love, geeking out over songwriters simply want a new way to enjoy the songs you already love, Monday Music Club is where the journey starts.

34:14Kara Swisher:New episodes release every Monday. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

34:25AI panic is everywhere. We do not want a data center in this county.

34:32Kara Swisher:AI models are becoming superhuman in their ability to break in and out of computer systems F*** the clock, damn Roseboro. I hate those things. But where is that panic really coming from? According to a poll from the New York Times and Siena, less than 1 % of voters listed artificial intelligence or data centers as their top priority in this year's midterms. I'm an old school person. I don't care about AI. He's saying that doesn't register for you. And sometimes I wonder, do they care about AI in so-called real America? What people in my district are saying is we think the risks outweigh the benefits.

35:07This week on America Actually, I'm talking to Michigan congressional candidate Will Lawrence on why he shaped his entire campaign around confronting the AI revolution. Really, it's about control, I think, above all. Who decides? Because people feel like they just are not really given any say so in the whole matter. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

35:31Kara Swisher:so let's talk about the broader landscape because you're doing a lot of other things besides doing this you're i'm a busy person but you're incredibly busy obviously you have your matchup with anderson cooper you've been friends for decades by the way anderson and i are in dc october 10th and philly november 14th and we do uh we were on tour for four years we were in about 60 cities over four years. We talk, tell stories, show a lot of clips, and it's a really fun night. It's like New Year's Eve live on stage, basically. And it's a really great, fun night out. It's called AC2. And we've been doing it for years.

36:14I've known Anderson since the early 90s. And of course, this year is going to be our 10th year doing New Year's Eve.

36:20Kara Swisher:Yeah, you replaced Kathy Griffin in 2017. He became the most iconic odd couple. Talk a little bit about that. It seemed unlikely. I guess he's a straight man, so to speak. You know, we've been friends, as I said, for a very long time. And one of the dynamics of our friendship is that I just, you know, give him a lot of crap and make him giggle. And I not only know how to push his buttons in that regard, but also I feel like with him, I know how to put quarters in him to get the best out of him. And I love him so much. He's a dear friend of mine, but I also find him incredibly, you know, smart.

36:59He's the rare person in a lost breed of people. And he's got a lot of class. He's got a lot of loyalty. He's got a lot of great stories. He's got a lot of curiosity. He knows everybody. He is one of the most respected journalists still on television in a moment where everyone's so divisive and divided. He's a very kind man. He's managed to keep, and he's a very kind man.

37:23Kara Swisher:He really is. He is. You do bring out something in him. It's really interesting. These live ones you've done since what year? Our tour. Yeah, our tour. We were doing it, I think, since like 2016 or 17. For a long time. Then we stopped because we had kids. And then I begged him like a year ago. I was like, dude, we're leaving money on the table. Also, we had so much fun. We could go somewhere together. And see your fans. and see your fans. Yeah. So one of the things that's interesting about both of you, now Anderson's part of Warner, Warner Discovery, which is merging with Paramount now. You work for the other big media company, NBC Universal, has its own big shift with the spinoff of Versant, Comcast doesn't plan to spin off NBC yet again into a publicly traded company.

38:09Kara Swisher:I want to talk about that because I'm an entrepreneurial news person. You are an entrepreneurial entertainment slash news person. Talk about that, what's happening now. How do you look at it as someone who is a producer and who revered, like CBS, the way I revered the Washington Post, the New York Times, but I'm not there anymore. Right. Well, I mean, I think that it creates less individuality and less competition. And, you know, I'm down about it. What does it do for someone like you who's a producer? Well, I mean, for me, I happen to work for the best brand in television and one of the few brands that actually mean something to anyone anymore.

38:53So I am so thrilled to have my ship anchored at Bravo. I mean, and NBC Universal. So, you know, look for a channel like Bravo. NBCU has tripled down on Bravo. Every time they split the company, they keep Bravo with us. I think that this Peacock YouTube deal is going to be incredible, not only for Peacock, but then for Bravo, which is a huge driver for Peacock. And Peacock is launching this Bravo-verse, which I am hosting, that is absolutely going to be an incredible universe for Bravo fans to get lost in.

39:36Kara Swisher:What I mean to say, how do you – like in addition to your work at Bravo and CNN, you curate and host shows, the Sirius XM channel, Radio Andy. You recently took over Howard Stern's channel 101. Yeah. A lot of programming. You've been running it for over 10 years. Yeah. You're putting a lot of – Eggs in different baskets. Many – talk about that because I think about that a lot. Well, I'm a person who – if I am given the opportunity to add to the portfolio of things that I'm doing and it's something that's interesting to me, I say absolutely yes. And so Anderson and I, this tour, it started at a time when I didn't have kids and we could go on the road 11 weekends of the year.

40:17With the radio, I was offered a talk channel 11 years ago. And I thought, wow, at that point I had left being in charge of programming at Bravo. So I was like, wow, I can not only program this radio channel, but it can be the It was almost like the anti-Bravo for me. Dan Rather, Sandra Bernhardt has a show on it, Bevy Smith, John Alter. So it became kind of this, I could do long form interviews with authors. And today I interviewed Stallone about his new book for an hour. And so it just, for me, it makes my endorphins go in a whole other area than producing the Housewives or hosting Watch

41:01Kara Swisher:what happens again back to the business thing people don't think of you that way but it's very clear you're an entrepreneur in that regard yes when you decide what to do if you had to give advice because not everyone can do it like when i everyone who leaves major places comes to me like i should run right i should run a yes yes and the only thing i two things i tell them some people aren't going to make it they just aren't like don lemon when he got fired i was like here's what you do like that kind of stuff or whoever it happens to be it worked because i knew it because It was like that. But in a lot of ways, a lot of people aren't equipped for that.

41:33Kara Swisher:You are attached to a big organization but are doing entrepreneurial. Well, look, I've been lucky because usually when you're attached to an organization, you're only attached to that organization. It was amazing to me that I was able with Sirius, that's all audio. So that's not video. So I am working in an audio medium. I now have a music channel also there. with the CNN thing. That was a bit of an anomaly. But NBCU knew my relationship with Anderson and they gave it to me. And I made an argument to them that I think was very correct that this would be great promotion for me and thus for them.

42:16Well, people don't see that.

42:17Kara Swisher:I say that to a lot of people. Like, what do you care if I'm more famous over here? Yes. Like, well, some people... I think you need to be promiscuous in the media. I agree. You and I both like being. I agree. Yes, I love it. I agree. And thankfully, I had a boss that understood that. And, you know, I feel like if you can make a good argument for something. And also, by the way, I've gone to them with many things and said, hey, how do you feel about this? And they're like, yeah, maybe not. And I say, fine. I mean, so I also trust that they're looking out for me. And I have enough other stuff going on that I'm very happy.

42:59Kara Swisher:Yeah, you're very multi-hyphenate in a lot of ways. And it's hard to do. And I think you have to be to be a successful in media today. Absolutely. But also, you have to know you can take it on and it's not going to kill you. And I now have two kids. And I understand what my time commitment to everything is. and I'm a highly productive person and I meet my deadlines and I know what has to be done. Right. So speaking of that, every episode we get a question from an outside expert. Here is yours. Hey, Andy Cohen. It's your pal Rosie O'Donnell. How are you? I miss you. I got a question for you for the Kara Swisher show.

43:37Kara Swisher:The question is, how has being a father changed your life and career? expand, will ya? I hope to see you soon, Andy. Take care. Bye. Thank you, Rosie. I mean, it's changed everything. It's certainly changed... I mean, I have a little bit of an edit button where I say, okay, don't say that, you're a dad. Right. But, I mean... How big is that button? I was gonna say. I mean, the other day they put these, like, electric panties on me and I gave the guest on Watch What Happens Live the controller every time they didn't want to answer a question they could buzz or something like that. So, I mean, you know, I still push the envelope.

44:21But I mean, look, it's made, I think that viewers have noticed on reunion shows that my dad self comes out a lot as I speak to sometimes either the housewives or to people, you know, some of the younger people that are on some of these shows like Summer House or Next Gen NYC. But I would say, I mean, look, it's just made my priorities totally different. And sometimes my agent will call me saying like, I really want you to get this thing or whatever. And I say, I'm good. Like, I'm good. I just, I view everything as if I have to leave the city to do something. It's going to be time away from my kids.

45:06In the year leading up to having Ben, I said yes to everything. I'm going to host the Attitude Awards in London. I'm going to be the international ambassador for world pride in Jerusalem. Like, yes, yes, I'll do it. I'll do it. Because I was like, you are about to be tethered into a different life. And so go do this now. So I do feel like I'm so glad that I got to, you know, just be famous for 10 years before I had kids so that now I can just be famous at home and not have to go to every party and all that stuff.

45:41Kara Swisher:What kind of dad are you, would you say? I think I'm a – I give myself a really good grade. I'm glad you said that. Thank you. I say that about my parenting all the time and people are like, you shouldn't say that. I'm like, why? Exactly. What, I'm a bad dad? I mean, no. I'm very rule-oriented. I'm very schedule oriented. I communicate with my children super clearly. My mom is reactionary, like everything. And I would just push her envelopes to get her to have a big reaction. So I am prone to a big reaction. But I also, I love deep talks with my kids. They're seven and four. I have already told Ben, I already made a deal with the guy at the bagel store that he's going to work there when he's like 15 or 16.

46:23We have the deal. I got him John Mayer tickets because I want him to know like I'm serious about this because it's hard, by the way. When I was young, I had so many jobs growing up. I mean, I want my kids to work. They, you know, my son is really interested in how money works and how does it play in and whatever. And I'm really being very regimented about the tooth fairy and things like that, because I'm seeing crazy things happening around him in New York City. Meaning what? Meaning kids that get$20 from the tooth fairy or$10. What is your tooth fairy number? $2. $2, that's low. $2 bill. Minus$5.

47:05Okay. All right. $2 bill is a special thing.

47:07Kara Swisher:You're right. It's very rare. That's a good idea. Yeah, an envelope. Inflation, though. It's interesting. You know, it is interesting because, like, kids do need that kind of structure, although you have a big life, too. Yes. I think about it a lot. Yes. My kid has a monster truck ring with a bunch of kids at the playground right now. They trade monster trucks. I mean, I love that. But that's great. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. My wife's like, he can't give it away. I'm like, no, this is good. Yes, exactly. No, it's nice. But also when they want to give something to a friend, trade something. We were at a birthday party yesterday.

47:37My son is so funny. And on the way home, they've got gift bags. Five or seven. This is my son's seven. She's four. and he said to her, he was trying to trade this really good like Lego egg thing and she was like talking, I go, Lucy, do not trade that egg. He goes, you know, if you have two of these Koosh balls, I mean, that's something, that's pretty rare. And I was like, oh my God. And he got her to do the trade and I was like, you know what, Ben? Good job.

48:08Kara Swisher:Good for you. He negotiated the deal. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, there's a lot of negotiations. Yes, my boyfriend goes, you know what? You either got it or you don't. That's right. Sales. Sales. Yes. He's got sales. When you think about raising them in New York, you've got an incredibly high profile. You're also very outspoken, even when your opinions are controversial. Celebrities are very careful. It's unusual for people to speak out. And you intentionally bait people like President Trump. It comes down to, as you say in your memoir, which you wrote, the fact that you simply cannot shut the fuck up.

48:41Yeah, I guess so. But I also, my mom always taught me to stand up for what I believe in. And I, on the radio, I mean, I let it rip on the radio. I really let it rip. You let it rip online. And on Watch What Happens Live, I mean, I gave Fauci the mazel of the day, the day that he was being dragged in front of Congress and he pled the fifth all those times. And man, did it piss people off. And it pissed off a lot of my viewers. and I speak on Watch What Happens Live when it, look, I'm the only gay host in late night television. But I, you know, I really want to speak up for this community when I need to, or when I, you know, when I feel like I need to, and I've spoken up about antisemitism and, yeah, it's, I just, to me, it's a matter of principle.

49:36And I'm off my assistant tweets for me because I found Twitter to be just absolutely just soul crushing. But Threads is pretty fun.

49:47Kara Swisher:Yeah, you do very well. And I like to, you know, troll, what's his name, Matt Schlapp and his wife Mercedes. Do you think about it? Because I'm telling you a lot of stuff. No, I should. I know. No, you should not. You absolutely should not. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah. I mean, Pete Hegseth titles everything with the title of things that have been used as gay porn titles. I mean, like, I'm like, dude, you're you Falcon Entertainment should sue you. They're they're like a leading gay porn producer. Yeah. Yeah. You're. And I have to say Oprah. So I'm like, this is dialogue straight out of Striker Force starring Jeff Stryker.

50:22Kara Swisher:It is a real gay porn administration. It is. It is. In many ways. I have to say, sometimes I'm like, I am, too. I'm like, what's happening here? What is going on here? But do you feel like when you think about it, you just do it because you naturally think you can't shut the fuck up? I don't think that's— Well, I think that I—look, let me say this. I'm very respectful of the airtime and the opportunity that I have on Watch What Happens Live to do the show. The industry has changed so much. I'm so grateful that I get to make this show every day. And I have people who have been with me for 17 years who work on Watch What Happens Live.

51:02And I want all of us to stay employed for as long as we can. So, yes, I have very strong beliefs. I know what my show is and I know what it isn't. And it's not a show about politics. But if I'm all hopped up, then I will come in and say I want to speak to, you know, I want to speak about X, Y, or Z. And I do it. So I just don't think that I overdo it.

51:25Kara Swisher:Do you think it's important that people like you do that? I think it is more than you think. I do. Yeah, I do. I mean, look, I feel like— A lot of celebrities say, oh, why do people don't listen to me? I'm like, why not? You're a citizen, too. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm of two— Every so often something will backfire and I'll think, you know what? I'm just going to keep my head down and whatever. What backfired? I don't know. I don't know. Just it may be something that I just get overwhelmingly negative response to, but that's the only response I'm looking at. You know, who knows? But then I may just get in my head about something.

51:59But no, I think, look, when I do these book tours and I meet a kid who says I grew up in rural wherever and you were the only gay person on television or moms come up to me and say, I used to look at you. And then when you had your kid, I turned to my son and said, you can do it too. So, you know, that means I think visibility always means something and is important. And I feel strongly about it.

52:26Kara Swisher:So on that, and then I want to finish talking about the future of reality TV. When you think about being a parent, a lot of people say gay parents. I'm like, what in the world is a gay parent? Except more fun. Yeah, I was going to say. More fun. Absolutely. Fucking more. Better parents. I think the lesbians should raise everybody, but that's different. The gay men are doing a good job. Lesbians? should run the world. I mean, let's be real. I mean, y 'all keep it together. You have it organized. It is, I mean, my assistant is one of the great lesbians in America, Darren Karp. And I mean, she just gets shit done.

53:03I mean, it's like, and, you know, there's not much drama. Talking about just keep your head down. Make it happen. So to speak. Like, get out the hammer and the nail. I mean, you know.

53:18Kara Swisher:There's a great online guy who talks about his lesbian neighbors. I don't know if you've ever seen him. He's very funny. They do everything. Yes. He's like, we have a potluck and it has everything. Yes. No. I mean, I agree. But when you think about it in a more serious thing, I think it's really important to model parents who are gay. I don't say gay parenting because I don't think it's different than other parenting. Right. But one of the things I worry about are my kids. Now I have older kids. They're now at the time. Did you worry about your kids growing up in this environment? Well, you know, it was interesting because my older kids, they passed the proposition in California, Proposition 8, that tried to end gay marriage when my kids were little.

53:55Kara Swisher:And it was the year Obama won. And my son at the time was 8 or 9. He's 25 now. And he said, can we stay a family? I'll never forget it. It was devastating. Are we still a family? Which is weird. Now, fast forward, since I'm a straight white man now, I have a second set of kids. Same thing is happening with gay and lesbian stuff, which is – Yes, it is. I worry again about the same thing. And what's interesting thing – what is interesting is so far, they're seven and four. They don't know that gay people are discriminated against. That hasn't gotten to them. They grew up with Anderson's kids. Right, yeah.

54:34We had gay parents down the hall from us. There are gay parents in their school. So they don't think it's unusual to have two dads. And they live in New York. Right. And so – but I'm so grateful for it. And I've said to my kids, by the way, do you – does it make you sad that you don't have a mom because they see moms on – you know. And Ben has said, well, if we had a mom, we wouldn't have you, daddy. Right, right. And you're the best. So, I mean, there – he's so high on my supply that – I mean, that's not literal. But he's into me. They're both very into me. So they see it in that way.

55:14Kara Swisher:Do you worry about the moment now? More and more. Yeah, of course I do. Of course I do. Or are we at the end of this? I don't know where the fuck we are, but I do worry about it. But what I think you can, the only thing you can do in moments like this, you really just have to focus on your family and your children and looking within and making sure they're great and that you're all there with each other. I mean, because that's something that you can control. And you donate to the States Project, which I'm very—do you know about the States Project? The States Project is an amazing organization for people.

55:53There's so much hopelessness in politics and in activism right now. As much as the president has and will and continues to grift and cheat and mess things up, everything happens in the state houses. And the States Project isolates the most key races. And when you give to them, you target a certain state or race. So the States Project is just an amazing organization that you can get involved with and not lose your cool.

56:27Kara Swisher:Not lose your cool. Yeah. Because it feels you never know what's going to happen. You don't. You don't. All right. I'm going to finish up looking for the future of reality television. Okay. Two questions. You said that Watch What Happens Live is a short attention span theater. It is. It's made to be a viral show without making it be a viral show. Right. It's doing well as late show on CBS ends and late night viewership is in decline. Talk about that and where do you see it going? Well, I'm amazed. I'm not amazed. where I see it going is that hopefully whoever is president after Trump and that include I mean I'm loving my man in Georgia right now but Atlanta what'd you say I call him hotlanta hotlanta yes but uh but that includes you know listen I have to keep hopeful I'm a I'm an optimistic person So I'm going to say even J.D.

57:24Vance or Marco Rubio, if they were to be president. I'm going to hope that they're not going to weaponize the FCC against everything and everyone, which is what's happening now. And I'm going to hope that the streamers will start developing some live late night shows that can do things without offending, you know, this man, whoever or woman, whoever it is. And that late night show right now, I just think there's the viewership of network television has changed. Absolutely. The way that daily talk shows are streamed has changed because it doesn't really, there is no habit for going on Hulu and watching an episode of Jimmy Kimmel from last night.

58:20Whereas when you watched NBC after the news, you knew that you wanted to watch The Tonight Show. So hopefully the streamers, which have not been able to develop and produce a hit talk show, which is kind of incredible. So I am hopeful that there will be once this insanity stops. I mean, it is. Wouldn't you think that Netflix would be saying? One would. One might think that they would say, look, Colbert had three million viewers a night. That's not, you know, that's not nothing. Like, let's. Would you want to do something like that? I'm really happy doing what I'm doing. I mean, I have a huge platform.

59:07You're a bit like appointment television, which doesn't exist anymore. Well, Bravo is, and I'm a part of that. And so I'm really happy where I am. I want to keep doing Watch What Happens Live for as long as they have me. And then the way I'm exercising my brain on SiriusXM is really fun. So I'm great.

59:27Kara Swisher:Yeah. And you're putting out books too, like the scrapbook. I love, look, I have an imprint at Crown. I published Mariah Carey's book, which was the number one bestseller. I published a book that's an oral history of The Real Housewives. It was the number one New York Times bestseller. And this Andy's Bravo scrapbook, it's a coffee table book. It is a great Christmas present. It comes out October 20th. And so I'm hoping this will be my sixth bestseller. For a friend of mine who watches all your housewives. I love that. Thank you. Which they love it. So, but yeah, I mean, look, I believe in doing as much as you can because anything can go away.

1:00:03And so only do what you can control of.

1:00:06Kara Swisher:Is that what drives you? Anything to go away? Not really. What drives me is being happy in what I'm doing. Me too. And I wouldn't say yes to something unless it was going to make me happy. So people offer me things all the time and I say, that's not going to add. That's not additive to my life. It's not like I just finished R. Emanuel's book. It's about loss. Everything drives him is loss and desperation. What drives me is kind of, is it organic? Does it fit with me? Will it fit with my life? Will it make me happy? You know, I mean, the most important thing is my kid. Can I do, you know, can I still take my kids to school every day?

1:00:43Kara Swisher:You know. Right. In New York. Is there anything you've done that you want to do? Would you like to run for office or? No. I mean, no, I'm good. Nothing? Nothing you'd like to make that you see and you're like, hmm. Not really. Not really. Not really. Is that bad? No, it's not bad. Yeah. Why is it bad? I want to keep writing books and, you know, maybe someday I'll, like, teach a course in media. A professor. Yeah, that would be fun. Why not? Is that funny, Kara Swisher? Yes, it's funny. Why is that funny? It's not funny. Scott Galloway's a professor. Yeah, exactly. The bar is very low. Well, all right.

1:01:20Well, I think that I would be high on that bar. Yes. Harvard. I would be a great professor. Are you kidding me?

1:01:27Kara Swisher:Yes. What? School of hard knocks. Yes. Harvard. What's the best communication school in TISH? NYU TISH. Yes. All right. They would be lucky to have me, Kara. Lucky to have you. Yes, they would. I would agree with you. You're not. You're goading me. No, I'm not. No, because my motto is you're lucky to have me wherever I go. Yes. Well, are you kidding me? Years ago when I was working, someone said they were lucky to be here. And I said, you're lucky to have me. That's funny. See, I mean, not many people can get away with saying that. And I— I bet you could. It's not the best look for a man to say that.

1:02:03I feel like a woman saying that is like, you go, girl. And a man saying that is, wow, you are a douchebag.

1:02:10Kara Swisher:No, you are not a douchebag whatsoever. Anyway— That's why I'm not going to say that. All right, fine. You just did a second ago. Anyway, I appreciate it. My presence is my present. You be you. Can I say that? Yes. Oh, I like that. Your presence is my present. Nice. I'm going to steal that one. It's the same. It's kind of the same thing. Andy, thank you. He's got this Bravo scrapbook out. I really, I think what you make is wonderful. Thank you. And I'm so glad I stalked you. Thank you. I'm so glad I. Anytime. Yes. You know, listen, when Anderson texts and says, I was like. I got Anderson to do it.

1:02:40Oh my God. Wow. Yes.

1:02:41Kara Swisher:Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:02:50Kara Swisher:Today's show was produced by Vicky Veragolina, Michelle Eloy, Catherine Millsop, Olivia Briley, Megan Burney, and Madeline LaPlante-Duby. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Lissa Soap, Rosemary Ho, Jim Mackle, and Manolo Moreno. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Juan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you're welcome in the Bravo Clubhouse. If not, I might have to flip a dinner table at you. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us.

1:03:29Kara Swisher:We'll be back on Monday with more. Focus Features invites you to sense and sensibility. Miss Dashwood, perhaps we ought to dance. It's a ball after all. The new motion picture is the social event of the season that has critics and audiences swooning. Does it not move you? Excite your senses? Stir your soul? It's wildly entertaining. A joyous celebration of sisterhood. I require so much. And everything you've been yearning for. Sense and Sensibility. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested. Only in theaters October 16th.