Are Insurgent Democrats Breaking the Party — or Rebuilding It?

21:45Kara Swisher:Yes, absolutely. Schumer did try to king make there and made a mistake there. We'll be back in a minute.

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25:46Kara Swisher:Quince.com slash cara. The next big test will be Michigan Senate primary. Progressive Abdul El-Sayed is challenging Representative Haley Stevens, the third candidate who is trying to strike the middle ground between the two. Michigan Senator Mallory McMorrow dropped out. She just never caught on. Democrats have to hold onto the seat if they want any chance to take back the Senate. But for Progressive, it's their last chance to show one of their Senate candidates can win in a purple state. It would be a big win if he won. The primary is August 4th. What are you all watching right now? So Roshni, you start and then Amanda, then Adam.

26:26Kara Swisher:I've been looking at the polling. It's going back and forth, but it seems like he's gaining a lot of momentum. He is running a similar playbook as Mamdani in New York City. He is money back in your pockets, hold corporations accountable and take corporate money out of politics, Medicare for all, reducing cost of living for voters and reducing that economic crunch that voters are feeling. and he's very consistently on message with those policy points and voters are really resonating with that message in Michigan. What about you, Amanda? I'm looking at the spending discrepancy. They have spent, I think, over$50 million on behalf of Haley Stevens.

27:08Kara Swisher:She is outspending, I'll say, I believe 10 to 1 at this point. If that's how much you have to spend to get her over the finish line in the primary, is there going to be the enthusiasm for her in the general, if she wins this, I don't know. So that's what you're looking at, is this amount of money. I'm keeping an eye on that. Again, can you king make in a state like this? Adam? I'm looking at whether El Saeed decides to make some of the pragmatic choices in the way that Mamdami has in order to appeal to a broader audience as we approach the general election. Because he was pressed on a CNN interview recently on his previous comments supporting defund the police and he stood by them.

27:48And I thought that was unfortunate. You know, that's, there are real electability concerns, but it's not about, you know, anything about him as a person. It's about some of these positions that he's taken that are going to be difficult to defend in a Michigan general election race. Now, on the other hand, similar to the dynamic in Maine, I'm no big fan of Haley Stevens either. I don't think she's been a particularly compelling candidate. There's not a really strong electability argument for her either because her past performance, you know, her numbers are okay, but they're not amazing. So it's another one of these dynamics where the choice is difficult.

28:16El Saeed is probably a better political athlete. He's very talented. He's great on social media. But he has taken some positions that unless he starts making some pragmatic choices, and there's still time left for him to do so, I do think those things are going to be liabilities in a general election.

28:28Kara Swisher:Do either of you think that? Amanda, do you think that or Roshni? I think he has some liabilities. I go back and forth a little bit because on the one hand, like if he genuinely does believe we should defund the police or whatever statement he's saying, like there is some value in really saying what you believe. Right. Even if he knows that it's not a practical position to take. And I think part of that is it can signal to people that they can trust you. So, you know, I think this is where you get into some tension here of do you contort your policies for an electorate or do you still true to what you value?

28:57Kara Swisher:Like, it's a tough call. And I think you have to be a really talented communicator to be able to do it. Well, Mamdami, you know, Mamdami just 100 percent reversed himself on, you know, apologizing to the New York City police officers and just distanced himself from defunding the police. As we've talked about here, he's wildly popular and doing a great job. So I think it's possible to do it. Well, he's already mayor. He's already mayor. But, you know, listen, Woke One was crazy. Everybody said a lot of stuff that they probably didn't mean and got caught up in the moment. I think there's also a level of forgiveness of saying, hey, listen, we all got a little carried away there.

29:24And with the benefit of hindsight, I've decided to sort of reevaluate those things. People don't, you know, mind people changing their mind if they're open and honest about their reasoning there.

29:33Kara Swisher:Yeah, I think it comes to whether he can, like, articulate how he got to a new place. And I think Mamdani is able to do it in part because he has the trust of voters. I don't say he has not earned that yet. I think he's still got a little bit of work to do there. Rashi, are people allowed to change their mind, even if it's not genuine, necessarily? I think if it's a genuine change, then yes, they are allowed. Voters really, really value authenticity in candidates. And to voters, that means staying true to your beliefs. And so I think if you can explain to voters, here's why I believed in defund the police and here is why I have now changed my mind.

30:12Kara Swisher:that's not just, you know, I saw poll numbers that say it's unpopular. And so now I'm going to change my mind on it. Or my big corporate donors have told me this is not a popular position for me to hold. So now I'm going to flip flop on it. If they can display that level of authenticity, I think it's totally appropriate to change your mind. All right. Let's talk about what's driving the rise of these insurgent candidates. Amanda, like you mentioned, run for something. So a record number of people sign up to run for office after the 2024 election, mainly because they were angry at the Democratic Party.

30:45Kara Swisher:Talk about specific ways these people felt the party was failing them and how it's driving where we are. I mean, angry is one thing, but particularly, what's the specific thing? When I look back at 25 and 26, the biggest moments we saw for candidate recruitment were first big wave of doge fire. So this frustration with the federal government and like, how could you let people lose their jobs? And a lot of it was laid off federal workers who had public service experience and wanted to run in a different way. The second was Schumer's failure to resolve things during the first shutdown fight. They were pissed.

31:15Kara Swisher:They're like, how can you hand off our government to this guy? I thought we said that this was the end of democracy. If this is actually an existential crisis, why are you playing games with him? The third big moment was Mamdani's win. Like, after Mamdani won in June of last year, we had 10 ,000 people sign up in those two weeks. I think part of that was his joy, the inspiration, but also this idea that the establishment is not unbeatable. They just go unchallenged. And that you can take them on if you try. The fourth big one was right after the elections in the fall when you see people like, yes, Mamdani, but also Spanberger, Mikey Sherrill in New Jersey.

31:52Kara Swisher:Just like, oh, yeah, people can do this. Good people can run and good people can win. Now, I will say the thing that I have come back to a bunch over the last year is how much housing comes up in these conversations. And in particular, young people feeling like Democrats have not done enough to make it possible to buy a home. They have not done enough for renters. And it is, I think, part of a larger sense that young people do not have agency over their lives. They don't have an ability to choose where they live, where they work, how they live, if they can start a family. Housing is the number one issue people are talking about when they talk about running for office.

32:25Kara Swisher:and I think it's connected to how young voters are feeling. That's a very good point. The political strategy now, James Carville recently unloaded on these democratic, socialists and progressive candidates trying to challenge incumbents. He said they were, quote, so fucking stupid, I don't know what to say about it. Adam, you mentioned the need for a Big Ten approach. Do you care what Carville has to say about this? Speaking of gerontocracy, to what extent is he emblematic of the generational divide that's animating some of these candidates? I think he's very emblematic of the generational divide.

32:52You know, I think he's wrong on this. Look, you know, there was a picture on Twitter the other day of a DSA meeting, right? And there were two things that I took away from it. One was that half the people in the room were wearing face masks, right? And so in July of 2026, that is an indication that a lot of these people are not representative of the broader American public, right? But the other thing that was equally important, if not more important, was that the room was packed. And you had 50 or so people, you know, deeply committed to the civic process who cared deeply about issues, who were debating, you know, Robert's Rules of Order and all these sort of, you know, arcane procedures.

33:24that, you know, the DNC should be extremely jealous of that level of commitment and energy and organization, right? And so we may not agree on every issue, but that passion and that commitment has a place in our big tent, and it must have a place in our big tent. You know, we can all disagree on issues and say what we believe and where we draw lines and distinguish ourselves and what's right for New York City is not right for Texas. But that energy is incredibly valuable, and we would be very dumb as a party to try to run it out of the party.

33:52Kara Swisher:Why are people like him doing that then, Amanda? It threatens people like his power. I mean, the institutions will always protect himself. Carville and many other of the older leaders like him are creatures of these institutions. They have built them from the ground up. They are scared. When we talk about the leaders who got us into this mess will not be the ones to get us out of it, we also mean people like him. This is not to say he did not do some good things in his service, but that dude does not understand what it's like to be a 20 or 30-something in the United States right now. He does not understand why people are angry.

34:23Kara Swisher:He and so many others of his sort of generation of leaders, both literally and figuratively, are so removed from where people are. And I would just posit, if you don't like DSA, it is possible for the establishment wings of the party or the old guards such as it is to offer a different vision. Like, they could avail themselves of selling something that would solve the problems and speaking to the anger people feel. The fact that they have instead chosen to punch left or to blame the young people who want these wild and crazy things, make an argument. Yeah, I made that argument to one of them. Go ahead, Roshni.

34:59Kara Swisher:I would add that I think the older generation, too, often minimizes the intelligence of young voters. And because a lot of young voters get their information on social media or from their friends, assume that it's not as good of information as they're getting in newspapers or on cable TV. And at least what we're seeing in our research and talking to young folks, that could not be farther from the truth. They're so well informed on the issues. I would agree. They really understand what's going on. They are just saying consistently over and over again, they're fed up with the system. And so I think it's a really wrong take.

35:37Kara Swisher:Right. I do. Again, I think of my sons, they're very well informed. They just don't agree with them. You know what I mean? And it's really hard because one of the things I said, you tell young people to be involved and to vote. And when they do it, you tell them their vote is stupid. Like, I don't understand. They're doing what you said and you just don't like their choice, which is very different. I also had political journalist, Ased Herndon, on the show a few months ago, he talked about how voters now don't fit into neat ideological boxes. I think that's another truism. And it's more important for candidates to be clearly articulate in their values than it is to fit neatly into an ideological box.

36:11Kara Swisher:First, Roshni, how does that square that you're seeing in the research with young and minority voters who've been moving away from the Democratic Party? And what animates them now? I think we've heard a lot about young men, particularly young men of color over the last few election cycles moving further away from the Democratic Party or voting more for Republicans. And so we've undertaken a lot of research over the last couple of years with our partners at Third Way and at Black Men Vote to dig into what's going on there, what is leading to these votes. And now that we're seeing these young men slowly move back towards the Democratic Party, what is driving that as well?

36:52Kara Swisher:And what we've found a lot is young men, young people are severely economically strained. They heard Democrats in 2024 say, the economy is fine. It's getting better. We don't have to worry about it. And so they were looking for candidates in that time, Trump, who were making arguments that identified the pain that they were experiencing and found some sort of solution for it. Now they're hearing Trump say that. Now they have noticed that he is not going to help them at all. He's making their lives a lot worse. And so they're looking for an alternative. And I think that's where some of these insurgent candidates too have come in.

37:35Kara Swisher:But I think an important point there is to note that at no point, even while they were voting for Trump, did these young men, particularly young men of color, identify as MAGA or Republican. They're still overwhelmingly progressive or Democratic or moderate. They just needed a place to land in the last election because they didn't feel like they had a home in the Democratic Party. And so I think what we're seeing is more and more young people are not identifying cleanly with parties in the way that they have in the past. And so we have to be a little bit more flexible with our messaging and our policy positions.

38:15Kara Swisher:Now, Adam, you had some examples of what Roshni was talking about in your book. Can you share some of those? Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think the overarching frame here is that the defining feature of the American people is their ideological heterodoxy, right? The American voters are not rigidly ideological. And so they don't take all their positions from the left or the right. You know, they mix things from column A and column B. And so when you've seen candidates who've been successful, especially in resisting attacks as being socialist or Republican smears, it's because they mix those positions together and convey this heterodoxy that connects with the American people and makes people think, oh, when you face a tough decision, you're going to be an independent thinker, you're a different kind of Democrat, you're going to think like me.

38:52And so, you know, when you look around the country now, the candidates who are succeeding in some of these redder areas, people like James Tallarico, are mixing in non-traditional democratic positions with their sort of liberal values. So Tallarico running in Texas is talking about how valuable the oil and gas industry is to the Texas economy. It supports hundreds of thousands of working class jobs, hundreds of thousands of working class Hispanic men, you know, are employed by the oil and gas industry. And so, you know, For a candidate like him, who clearly is deeply committed to liberal values, if you're going to win in a state like Texas, you've got to mix in some of those heterodox positions.

39:24And that's part of why I think we're seeing him succeed.

39:27Kara Swisher:So, I mean, one of the things that's really isn't usually a top concern for voters, but like we talked about, support for Israel and taking money from AIPAC is still really dividing Democrats. You just saw this vote in the House, which was unprecedented, I think. Even if it's not voters' top concern like the economy, talk about the role the issue of support of Israel is playing now on the campaign trail. I think it's twofold. One is that it's a moral litmus test, especially for young voters, but even for older voters too, this sense that can you call a spade a spade? Can you call what we are seeing in Gaza a genocide as it so clearly is?

40:02Kara Swisher:Do you see the atrocity and can you name it? And I think for younger voters in particular, that kind of moral clarity is necessary. The second is the way that AIPAC is trying to buy elections speaks to the larger problem of money in politics. For people feeling like their voice can be drowned out by amount of money that feels undemocratic and unfair. I think AIPAC has become the boogeyman for that, but they are not alone here. We're seeing that from crypto. We're seeing that from tech. I think Elon Musk has$90 million in right now. You know, them, the gambling, but I think the combination of the moral clarity around the issue and the money being spent that is so clearly removed from where the American people are, which I think is also the challenge here.

40:44Kara Swisher:We'll be back in a minute.

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42:55Kara Swisher:I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels gets you more of the experiences you value. The Cambria Hotel's got it all. A rooftop bar, have a ball. Cocktails up here feel just right. It's Cambria amazing, all right. Bring a date, your team, or even your mom. Book direct at choicehotels.com. See you on the roof. We're just a few months out from the midterms. The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to navigate these divides in real time if they want to retake power in Congress. Most people feel they have a lock on the House. We'll see. Senate is in play. I think that's probably the fairest way to say it.

43:39Kara Swisher:But the big fears of Democrats are facing a moment like the Republicans did in 2010 and 2012 during the Tea Party wave when unqualified or just bad candidates cost them a Senate majority. although 2010 was still a wave election for Republicans, let's be clear. And when you're looking at how can Democrats avoid that same fate between now and November, although I think the candidate quality is pretty high from what I'm looking around the country. Yeah, I mean, you know, I lived through those elections. Candidates like Christine O'Donnell in Delaware, who famously had to run an ad saying, I'm not a witch, you know, losing what should have been a winnable seat for Republicans because she beat Mike Castle.

44:14Kara Swisher:Being a witch today might win you a seat, but go ahead. That's true. Times change. You know, she should, hey, she should make another run. You know, so, right. So we don't have anybody that's that bad in terms of candidate quality. But I think, you know, this is why we really got to hone in on questions of electability. We only have a few primaries left. And I really genuinely believe that any of the major candidates in any of these primaries we have left on the Senate side can win, right? Especially in an environment that is really strong for us on the fundamentals. People are deeply upset about Trump.

44:42They're really angry. They hate the economy. All that makes for a good midterm for Democrats. we just have to get really smart and not let these people need to be more focused on winning an election than winning an argument and if abdul el-said is the nominee his job is to beat mike rogers the republican right and that put that first above everything else even if it means conceding some issues on factional purity you got to focus on winning it would be not in his interest or the interest of his faction for him to lose so everybody's just got to get really smart as we turn into general election season and focus on winning and i think we don't have any candidates who are incapable of doing that as long as they put beating the Republican over winning these factional arguments.

45:19Kara Swisher:Amanda, does money play as big a role? Do you think there is enormous, I mean, Ken Griffin, Elon, the tech people are putting a lot in. Trump has some slush fund. Is that going to make a difference? It didn't make a difference in Wisconsin when Elon tried to get those judges put in and it didn't make a difference for Tom Steyer in California, for example. I think money matters to the extent that candidates and their outside partners have the ability to run strong campaigns. I do not think you can buy elections the way that you used to. I think it is much, much harder to make the case that simply outspending your opponent will guarantee an outcome.

45:51Kara Swisher:I think especially in this election where Democrats and Democratic voters were ready to crawl over broken glass to vote, and their job is going to be convince Republican voters that Trump's not on the ballot, you may not love the economy right now, you're sort of souring on this, but still show up. It's just a much harder case to make. I don't know if there's enough money that can sell a shitty product. I would add, too, that voters are a lot more skeptical of information that we're feeding them these days. With the rise of AI and information coming on social media, they want to know who is responsible for the message and why they're spending all of this money on political ads.

46:28Kara Swisher:And we hear that so often in focus groups when we test messages, when we test ads, when we test content. Who's responsible for this? What's their angle? And so I think voters are a lot more skeptical when they look at the amount of money that's being spent in politics now. Absolutely. So a lot more progressive candidates are campaigning on the message, Abolish ICE. A poll in March showed about half voters supported the idea. I think it's higher now. And we just saw two more fatal shootings this month. It looks like it's animating a lot of voters. Is that the case? And Rajni, you first, what are your surveys revealed about ICE enforcement as a vehicle?

47:02Kara Swisher:And then Amanda and Adam, please weigh in. I think voters hold a very nuanced view on this, actually, in the same way that they do around the slogan defund the police. They very much are supportive of having some sort of immigration enforcement mechanism in the country, but they are very, very unsupportive of the actions that Trump's ICE is taking in murdering Americans and forcing people into camps and kicking people out of the country. They do not like the way that ICE is operating. I think this is especially true among Latino communities right now and why he's losing so much ground that he gained in the last election among Latino communities.

47:48Kara Swisher:They are seeing their neighbors and their friends and family being targeted. And so they voters do hold a nuanced view in this. And I think running on the idea of abolishing or reforming ICE, it's a popular position for candidates now. Amanda? I totally agree. I also think this is one of those places where the Democratic Party leadership's failure to show sufficient anger really matters. Like Chris Van Hollen traveling to El Salvador and like putting his body on the line or even Brad Lander doing the same in New York. Some of it is performative, but voters want to see that you're validating their feelings that this is an atrocity, that this is horrific, that they should not be able to murder people in the streets.

48:29Kara Swisher:I also think the flip is also true, which is that voters have seen now over the last 18 months, totally ordinary people stand up against ICE in a way that I think is deeply inspiring and in some ways restores some faith in the American people and in this idea that you could be responsible for your neighbor, that while our elites and our billionaires have been deeply cowardly, ordinary Americans have been incredibly brave. So watching our leadership fail gives them an opportunity to rise. Yeah, I think we did a poll at Searchlight after the shooting in Minnesota. And it showed two things. One was that ICE was unpopular.

49:05The other was that people still wanted interior enforcement of our immigration laws, right? And so however you message it, you have to make clear. And what people are saying is, you know, not like this, right? They want interior enforcement, but they don't. They're horrified, rightly so, by what they're seeing. So they want enforcement that abides by the rule of the law, that treats people humanely, that isn't pulling people out of cars and certainly isn't shooting them in the head, you know, for just trying to get out of the way. So that's the line that Democrats have to walk, where, you know, they should absolutely be harsh in their criticism of these atrocities that we're seeing and this incredibly reckless approach to interior enforcement while still making clear that we are a nation of laws and we do need interior enforcement of our immigration laws.

49:48It just has to be humane and it has to abide by the rule of law.

49:51Kara Swisher:Yeah, it's interesting because I do think it's a communications issue. there was a really interesting video, some guy going on about what happened in Maine, a Mainer. And he's like, well, if it was in this country illegally, he's in trouble. And then the guy was like, well, you know, he was in this country illegally. And he goes, oh. And he goes, and he was just trying to leave. Oh. And he had all his papers right. Oh. And it was so interesting to watch in real time this guy, who was very loudmouthed, shift rather quickly. He was actually shifting. It was an interesting moment to watch. Real-time persuasion, you know?

50:22Kara Swisher:Right. It's amazing to see. Yeah. Now, you all have two more questions. You all talked about the need to prioritize winning over ideological purity. But some of these progressive candidates, as they're pivoting to the general, how can they appeal to a broader electorate without compromising so much that they no longer seem genuine, especially in purple states and districts? I'd love each of you to answer it. Then I have one final question. You know, I think keeping it focused on the problems you want to solve and like speaking from a place of values, understanding that if you are clear about what your goal is, there's a lot of different ways to get at that goal.

50:53Kara Swisher:And that's That's kind of what the policy conversation is about, is we can all agree that everyone should have access to affordable health care. What are the different ways we can get there? And when candidates have a strong sense of values and of what they believe, the conversation about tactics and how you communicate that is much easier. I think candidates get screwed and we see them fail at this when their campaign or themselves have to spend time figuring out what is it I believe as opposed to how do I communicate what I believe. Adam? Yeah, I think part of being authentic is saying what you believe.

51:25And most people don't hold ideas that are consistent with an ideology on every single topic, right? And so liberals are going to have mostly liberal views, and that's great, and that's what the role we play in this system. But they probably have a few things that they believe personally that does diverge a little bit from sort of leftist purity tests. And they should just say that too, right? So that's part of what being authentic means is saying all the things you believe out loud. And that's the right balance for a general election where, you know, you're mostly going to agree with the left.

51:56But on a few things, you're going to have an independent point of view. And that is authentic because it's what you believe. And it also demonstrates to general election voters and swing voters who might have voted for Trump last time that you're going to be someone who thinks for themselves and who's going to be guided by your own. core values and commitments, not by a rigid ideology.

52:12Kara Swisher:And I also think outreach for candidates is paramount, making sure that they are speaking to voters where they are, addressing the issues that are important to them, and coming in at the level that they understand those issues. I mean, for example, Mamdani, in New York, AAPI voters had been voting more and more Republican over the course of the last few years. And Mamdani, in the general election drove AAPI turnout higher than it has been in New York City in years, and actually got 87 % of the South Asian vote in New York City, which is much more than Democratic candidates have been getting over the last few years.

52:53Kara Swisher:So having an authentic candidate and then having a candidate that is willing to go into their communities and authentically speak to their issues and problem solve with them is the key there. Yeah, yeah. I had suggested to a presidential candidate. I'm like, go where they are, not where you are. Like, they were in Nantucket. And I was like, leave Nantucket immediately. As we head into the 2028 presidential election, the eventual Democratic nominee is going to have to appeal to both sides of this divide and the broader electorate to win back the White House. Is this the start of a serious alignment for the party or just another cyclical swing to the left that could prove politically costly like it was for Vice President Kamala Harris in 2024?

53:34I think this is an opportunity to build a lasting realignment and dominate not just the next election, but the next generation for Democrats. And I think it requires us to make some smart choices starting now with the midterms and going into 2028. I have this book coming out called Supermajority. And the idea is that this is what we need to think. We need to think about how to build a supermajority and reject these narrow majorities that we've been trapped in for the last 10 years or so. And that means thinking about how to win in places like Nebraska and Texas and Ohio and the Dakotas where Democrats used to hold Senate seats.

54:05And if we make the choices we need to do that, we can build durable power that's not just going to swing back and forth because you can't, you know, everybody here wants to pass big, ambitious change, but you really can't do it on narrow majorities. I'd be the first to say we should eliminate the filibuster in the Senate. My first book was about that. You know, we should definitely get rid of it, but you're going to need large Senate majorities to pass big, ambitious bills and to reshape the courts, which are going to strike down anything we pass if we don't reshape them anyway, right? So we need to be smart and thoughtful about this and say, look, We will accept divergence from purity tests, especially in purple and red states, because the cost-benefit is a no-brainer.

54:42And we need to be smart and strategic, starting now with these midterms, but taking that mindset forward into 2028 as we think about how to beat Republicans and win back the White House.

54:51Kara Swisher:Roshni? At a base level, the Democratic Party brand is wildly unpopular right now. So it is ripe for realignment and to start from the beginning. And all of the populist and progressive policies that we've been discussing over the last hour are wildly popular, not only with progressive, self-proclaimed progressives, but also with moderates and independents and even some right-leaning voters. And so to build that big tent back for the Democratic Party, I think it is time for that realignment. Amanda? I don't know if any of your listeners are romance novel readers, but there's a trope in romance novels about, you know, the looks like a cinnamon roll but could actually kill you of like the nice guy with like a little bit mean.

55:38Kara Swisher:I think that's where the Democratic Party is going in the sense that I suspect after this cycle, we are going to be looking for a national leader who is both kind and earnest and optimistic and imagines a world that is better, but also tough on accountability and is not going to mess around with holding Trump and the Republican Party accountable for what has been done. And the winning candidates, the winning part of the party that can combine those two things is going to be the part that moves us forward. All right, then I can't resist. Who's your cinnamon roll? And who is Adam and who is Yersar Oshay?

56:09Kara Swisher:Oh, I think there's, I think Ossoff has certainly got it. I think AOC's got it if she wants it. I think Warnock, Loki, is a sleeper. He's got it if he wants it. There's lots of variations of cinnamon rolls with a little bit of could actually kill you underneath. Adam? I'm shaking my head because those are literally the three that I would name. I mean, I think all of them are interesting. I would also add I would not be shocked if there's a total outsider candidate who takes us all by surprise and swoops in with that outsider energy given how much passion there is for that right now. Hmm. Anyone you can think of?

56:41You know, someone like Mark Cuban from the – who has a business background but deeply held – He's not running. Just so you know. We talk about it every three days. Hey, that's news. You know, this is me just sort of fantasizing. But, you know, I saw Matthew McConaughey, you know, getting in on the action a little bit with the 250th anniversary. He's shown an interest in politics occasionally. Can I give you some advice?

56:59Kara Swisher:Go listen to my interview with him and then you'll change your mind. Okay, I'll do that right after this. Well, you know, but someone like that, I think, who's sort of, you know, comfortable in their own skin, good on social media, you know, but has a commitment to deep American values and wants to do more. You know, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Roshni, you finish up. I mean, I very much agree with the list of those three. And I think those are the three names that we hear voters bring up most often in focus groups as well. When we ask who are candidates who are working for you right now, we hear those three names pop up a lot.

57:29Kara Swisher:Well, there's a lot of Georgia in there, a lot of cinnamon rolls from Georgia. All right. Thank you three all so much ahead of Amanda and Roshni for being here today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thanks. Today's show was produced by Michelle Aloy, Catherine Millsop, Madeline LaPlante-Duvie, Megan Burney, and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Eamon Whalen, Dave Shaw, Corinne Ruff, and Julia Sharp-Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you are not a witch, or maybe you are.

58:06Kara Swisher:If not, you're part of the establishment, So you need to go. Actually, where you need to go is wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.

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