Kamala Harris on Trump, Tech’s Power Grab, and the Fight for Democracy

24:17Kara Swisher:Take charge of your AI with Cohere. To learn more, visit Cohere.com slash Vox.

24:30Kara Swisher:So we're going to get to the corporate, especially the tech executives, who you and I both know really well from being in California, and especially San Francisco. But I want to, something from the book, you faced unique challenges simply because of who you are in many ways, besides the speed of what you had to do. I want you to talk a little bit about what you thought was the most complex part of running for president. Was it the time? Was it being a woman? Was it being a woman of color? What, from your perspective, was the most difficult parts of those 107 days? Well, I've always been a woman.

25:05Kara Swisher:Yes. And a woman of color. So that kind of is. But it's the time. It's the time. I think that one of the biggest, the thing that I was most acutely aware of was the time. And that's why I named the book 107 Days. And for those of you who have not yet read it, I basically wrote it like a journal. Not every single of the 107 days, but many of them. So it's by date and what happened on particular days. And I was acutely aware, as I have talked about, my prayer every night was, God, please let me have done everything I could possibly do in this one day. I mean, I traveled several states in a day. I couldn't do enough.

25:53And that was probably the most.

25:56Kara Swisher:The time constraint. Yeah. In doing what? Didn't people get not getting to know you enough? Not what? No, it's not that simple. I mean, it's about it's about, yes, getting to know me and my background and what I've done. And the fact that I was elected district attorney for two terms as the first woman elected attorney general of the state of California. I'm the second largest Department of Justice in the United States, second only to the United States Department of Justice. I was the United States senator, second black woman elected in the history of the United States Senate. and I was the first woman vice president of the United States.

26:33So there are those things that I needed to make sure that people knew. That is a decent resume, but go ahead. Well, some people have actually said I was the most qualified candidate ever to run for president.

26:51Kara Swisher:I like that some people say, very nice, but go ahead. I'm just speaking fact yeah um but but for example I I I discuss in the timeline we had policy work to do um that was about letting people know where I stood on the fact that I wanted to make sure that for example it was my intention and I know there are a lot of beautiful public servants here today, some of who are not, have been let go over the last several months, and some of who are furloughed. And I thank you all for your service and everything that you do. And if we can just applaud those who are here.

27:39But what, for example, one of the things that I intended to do was as the president, we then have the largest workforce, right, is the federal government. And I intended to figure out a way to reclassify job descriptions by skill, not just by college degree. And then to challenge the private sector to do the same. because I do believe as we think about the future of work, that is how we should think and not just think that only someone with a college degree has the skills to perform the job in a way that adds value to all of us. The work that we wanted to do around$25 ,000 down payment assistance for first-time homebuyers, and I could go on and on.

28:30It took time for people to hear those things. One of the things that was very popular, And we knew that, and every day it was gaining around people knowing about my policy, was around having Medicare cover home health care. It was very popular when people learned about it, because when my mother was sick, I helped take care of her. And I was blessed and fortunate enough to have a job where I could leave work to do that and get paid. and but there are so many families especially if you're in the sandwich generation raising young children and taking care of an elder relative that you just can't afford to do it and my policy was to cover have medicare cover it yeah the more people found out about that the more they understood that it related to an immediate need of theirs but there just wasn't enough time you know as as many people have heard people need to hear the same thing at least three times before it's That's what sinks in.

29:31That's about time.

29:32Kara Swisher:I'm curious, did you think a primary would have done that if they had done a primary and you weren't? It depends on when the primary would have been. Right. But no, not with 107 days. When were you going to do a primary? Right. Listen, I go through on July 21st when I got the call from Joe Biden. And just to set the scene for those of you who haven't yet read it, I was in my sweats on a carpet on the floor with my baby nieces, six and eight, doing a puzzle. Having just made pancakes and I promised them lots of bacon and sausage for Sunday brunch. I had been the night before in Provincetown, P-Town, which they named VP Town, for a fundraiser for the Biden-Harris ticket.

30:22And I got in late that night and I promised the kids who were staying with us, my niece and her husband and their children, that I would do pancakes the next morning. And so we did. And that's where I was with the kids when I got Joe Biden's call. and the challenge that we had from that day forward was having enough time.

30:45Kara Swisher:Sure, and you noted that because you wanted them to endorse you immediately. You had that discussion with Steve Reschetti. But I told all those people I called, I talked to over 100 people that day and I told everyone who wanted to know if you want to have some process, this is the process. I'm calling everybody to ask for their support. Anybody else who wants to jump in, come on in. And nobody did. So do you when you think you you're noting time is the issue. One of the one of the things you talked about was also media and the social media and getting out there and getting these messages out there, which Trump is very good at.

31:24Kara Swisher:He really is quite good at those things. You and I talked about it. And I think at the time I said you need to be promiscuous the way Trump is on social media. in other ways, possibly too. But you wrote in the book, which I noted, that you wanted the first interview to be flawless. Talk about that. In getting out these messages, were you too cautious? What did you wish you had done differently? Or perhaps not at all? I mean, I know a lot was made of the Rogan thing. I think he played you, honestly. when you think about what you did what would is flawless better or maybe not so flawless well I talk about this in the book as you know yeah and I talk about what I thought I could have done differently but listen my standard for myself has always been that I have to be flawless I won't always be and I know that but I'm very clear about what my standard for myself has to be it was a great word let me finish and I know let me finish oh you did that good and I know the standard by which I will be judged right so you know this connects to the question you asked me earlier I'm very clear about that and I'm sure it's a shared experience for many people here which is we know the standard by which we will be judged and just clear-eyed about that.

32:55So, yeah, that's the standard I hone myself to. I know I am not flawless, and I certainly am not perfect.

33:00Kara Swisher:Can you talk a little bit more about that in terms of why you feel that when so much of politics isn't that? No, I just curious. When you think about doing that and politics has degenerated, have things changed from your perspective? No. No. Okay. No, no, no. Let her answer. No. There are, there are, I mean, things have definitely degenerated. I agree with that. And I mean, the floor has just, I don't know that there is a floor right now. Part of what I have thought about and discuss is, again, when we look at where we are now, it did not just happen overnight. Part of what I discuss is that if you look at a pattern that was starting to set in, think of it in terms of Ronald Reagan's celebrity, Newt Gingrich's base level of discourse, Pat Buchanan's nativism, and then look at where we are now.

34:10So there are connections to be seen that one can argue pointed out to us, had we at least more clarity around it from hindsight, that this is where it was going. And this is where we are. And it is. It has been reduced to a level where there's really apparently no desire to have real discourse or debate based on merit and fact. Not to mention, as you and I have discussed extensively, the rampant amount of mis and disinformation that is so very difficult to get in front of. Part of what I would offer all of us is to really reflect on the fact that there are many disagreements to be had by people that voted differently than us in that last election, but let's please not make an assumption that we're working with the same set of facts.

35:08And that's something that we need to grapple with. And again, when we go back to what are the solutions, well, that won't end what's happening right now out of the White House, but it is part of the solution going forward, is to reflect on what is the power of the people of each one of us to really be intentional and conscious about the rampant amount of mis - and disinformation. And with the facts that we know, how can we engage our neighbors, our family members, our friends in a way that is productive to make sure that we're all working with the same set of facts? Because that's going to be, that is part of what I believe is our undoing and will be a continuing source of our vulnerability as a nation if we don't all participate in addressing that issue of misandisinformation.

36:00Kara Swisher:Which is something we've talked about a lot is the prevalence of misinformation and now with the tech executives sort of sucking, not sort of, sucking up to Trump rather egregiously. I want to get to them in a second because you and I have talked about that a lot. I remember one of the last discussions we had when you were at the White House was when you were headed for the AI summit in Britain. But let's talk a little bit about this because the person who is the most pernicious purveyor of this is has been President Trump leading up. And you're right to go from especially Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich.

36:29Kara Swisher:It just it moves its way up. But we'll start with an expert question from someone who has a very unique insight into President Trump, Hillary Rodham Clinton. Take a look. Oh. Hello, Kamala. Well, I know that you're on stage with Kara Swisher, and she invited me to ask you a question. So really, I want to know this. I debated Trump three times. You debated him once. He wouldn't debate you again. We beat him four times. Do you think we're the reason he is so unhinged today?

37:10Kara Swisher:Oh, right?

37:15Kara Swisher:She enjoyed doing that. I talk about Hillary in the book, too. You do. And with great admiration and love and respect. Yeah, I mean, he is no doubt he is unhinged. And and I and in Secretary Clinton did the work in her debates of of demonstrating that, as I attempted to do in my debate with him. we have in this president the most not one of the most callous corrupt and incompetent individuals that has ever occupied that white house and unhinged is the least of the concerns that I have, but it ranks right up there. And, you know, the debate, look, I mean, okay, so part of it is, so what happened was, so debate camp, which was really intense.

38:32And then we get to Philly and my team, and it's Kirsten Allen, who many people here may know, and Brian Fallon. And they're getting me ready and they're like, hey, boss. So we saw Donald Trump coming off the plane, coming to the debate. And Laura Loomer was on the plane with him. And so they basically say to me, we didn't tell you, but she's been talking about people eating cats and dogs. And I was like, what? And they said, we think we need to tell you because his propensity is to say the last thing he heard. And sure enough, on the debate stage, he said it. He said it. And we were ready. Go ahead.

39:26Yeah. I was prepped, but not really. Right.

39:34Kara Swisher:Unhinged. Okay. Now, one of the things you do write in the book is about the appealing side of him. You sort of, you turn it over, like, what is it? Yeah. Talk about what you think that is and then the change. Because there's been a, well, he's always been awful. But has there been a change from your perspective? Because you do talk about it. I just share facts. Look, I don't know the man more than anybody else here. I debated him. I shook his hand at the debate because I always shake somebody's hand when I first meet them. But I do talk about the conversations that he and I had. And I talk about Jekyll and Hyde.

40:16Yeah, you said you had to remind yourself that he was a con man. Because during this brief conversation, he sounded very normal.

40:32Right? I mean, so it's, I don't, yeah, that's what con men do. I mean, look, so when I first got in the race after July 21st, we had to go at least about two weeks without any polling, right? So it was just my gut about what we should do. And so I started giving this speech that I came up with. And Adam Frankel is here. It's always been part of my team in helping me get my thoughts together. And basically I said, you know, I've been a DA, so I have prosecuted these kinds of things. And when I was attorney general, I took on fraud. And I said, so basically, so all of those qualifications, so I know his type.

41:19So I do know his type. And therefore, I know that he is not unlike a con man, that he can turn it on and he can turn it off. But whatever he's doing is for his own well-being and to take care of himself. Let's be clear about that. Let's be clear about what he is doing to monetize this presidency for himself. let's be clear about the fact that he is in many ways compromising national security when he is taking a plane from a foreign government I call it you know you might call it a luxury jet I call it a Trojan horse it's so that's what con men do but this con man happens to be president of the United States, making decisions that are in such a tremendous way injuring the people of our nation and our standing around the world.

42:21Kara Swisher:Have you noticed a change more recently or in this administration? Obviously, there's a difference between the administrations, but have you noticed that or not? Or it's the same administration, just more explicitly corrupt? I think it's more experienced to know the levers and that is part of what we are witnessing and then but but again to your earlier point compounded by the supreme court telling him he could do whatever he wants so there's no this is part of what we talked about in 107 days and and and everywhere including on the ellipse that night, which is everything is basically suggesting there will be no accountability for anything he does in office.

43:08That's why Mike Pence wasn't running with him. And he got this other guy who would rubber stamp everything he does and hope that he'll be the successor. You've got a court that has said you can do anything and get away with it. You have a Congress that is bending the knee. And so they came in, unlike, you know, before there was a vice president who stood up. There was a chief of staff in Kelly, Mark Milley, who would have, I'm sure, said you cannot turn the United States military on the streets of America like what they're doing right now in Chicago with Blackhawks in the cities of America. There were guardrails within the administration and external to the administration.

43:58Right. All gone.

43:59Kara Swisher:These are people who know the level. Now, the administration is obviously staffed by sycophants. It feels very sycophantic. Some of them, like Russell Vogt, very effective. Others, Pam Bondi, Brandon Carr, Stephen Miller, seem unhinged. Carr seems to have overstepped with Kimmel and has moved back slightly. Bondi is getting pushed back over Epstein. Miller, I don't know what to say. Is there a way for Democrats to publicize their hackery and fanaticism and use it strategically? Or is it just they know the levers and he's found people willing to pull them, like in Virginia with Letitia James? We have to continue to highlight the corruption and literally the violation of rule of law and all of the essence and spirit behind rule of law in the Constitution of the United States.

45:00Free speech, free association, just freedom, period. But we have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Right. Right. Part of how I think about it is we do have to understand that there are, I think, a fair number of people that voted for Donald Trump because they believed him when he said he'd bring down prices. They believed him. He lied, which is why the cost of groceries is up. unemployment is up. And part of then chewing and walking gum and chewing at the same time is, as Democrats, we also have to emphasize what our plan is immediately for bringing down the cost of everyday life.

45:48And all of those things have to happen at the same time. We'll be back in a minute.

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49:14They were in the front row of the inauguration in front of the cabinet itself, in front of legislators and elected officials.

49:23Kara Swisher:Elon Musk has said Trump wouldn't have won without him. And you say it's entirely possible his money was a deciding factor. You also wrote, quote, our democracy shouldn't belong to the world's richest man. Unfortunately, they are quite influential now and they're right there and getting all the juicy bits. right down to the recent TikTok deal, which they got at a massive discount. How do you stop these tech billionaires from deciding future elections? Because now they're starting to buy into all the media. They certainly control the algorithm, et cetera, et cetera. We can't, and I say this with all due respect to my former colleagues in the United States Congress.

50:06I believe at this point, whatever guardrails there are on the abuse of technology, it will not come out of Congress. You know, we've been talking forever about Section 230. It ain't going nowhere. It's just not. We keep talking about it. It's going nowhere. Yeah. and if we can't expect the guardrails on the abuse to come from the industry itself although I must say that there there are plenty of people you and I both know this within the industry who do agree with you and I and all of us that there should be guardrails right but those at the highest level if they are unwilling and they clearly are to self-impose any requirement that they actually pay attention to the truth and do anything about reducing the amount of mis - and disinformation that is being spread, then we have to think about what other power centers are there.

51:05If it's not going to come from Congress, if it's not going to come from the courts, especially because what are the courts going to enforce if the laws aren't there? Doesn't come from the industry. I say, and as a former attorney general in particular, having had two jobs, I was the top cop, the biggest state, and I was also the primary protector of consumers. The other place of power, the center power, I do believe are the consumers. Okay. Just again, back to the Kimmel example, people voting with their pocketbook. The challenge there, Cara, around the consumers putting their foot down and saying enough, this has to stop, you need to change, is we have work to do, all of us here, to help increase the amount of information that is available about the connection between the abuses and the harm to everyday folks.

51:59And that's the work that needs to be done. The work that needs to be done is something that any parent or anyone who is parenting a child knows around the harm of social media to our children. And AI going forward. And AI going forward, right. You know, I spent a lot, the majority of my career as a courtroom prosecutor focused on abuse of children. And what we're seeing now in terms of the use of social media and technology is being applied to something that has happened always. And we need to deal with the fact that social media is just making it easier. And we need to figure out how we're going to help inform the public about how social media can be used in a way that harms our children so that we can, as consumers, say we're not going to buy your product or we're going to put pressure on you to conform to what we know is in the best interest and safety of our children.

53:02Kara Swisher:You have to use it for work. It is also the communication system, now the media system, and it's addictive. I think that's the difficulty of getting off of it, right? Because you're now so stuck in. Let me ask you, as a former... Yeah, but that's the same thing somebody said about tobacco. Yeah, exactly. Right? But at some point, it is... So we're not going to rely on the people who are doing the harm to tell us, oh, you're addicted. It's about us saying that we know the addiction can occur and we're going to require you to stop pushing stuff that harms the people. and in particular our children, in particular our children.

53:39Kara Swisher:As a former senator from California, you have a lot of, had had a lot of relations with tech leaders and spent most of your life in the Bay Area. And so you had a window into these people. Were you surprised by this heel turn toward Trump, this sharp heel turn? Even Bill Gates, who gave$50 million to a nonprofit backing your campaign, said the election was unprecedented significance, recently thanked Trump on camera for his incredible leadership. You saw that dinner, didn't you? you suck i i was to answer your question directly i was i was surprised and and the speed with which they did it i was surprised and i people are showing themselves to be blatantly unapologetically transactional who have you been most surprised by of all those leaders all of them every one of them all of them all of them who know again i go back to my point i i do believe they're not unintelligent um they are not uneducated so they do know about our what the the principles and the the the values that we have in terms of free speech and and everything else that's about a democracy and they can see what all of us are seeing every day.

54:58They're not blind. They're transactional.

55:01Kara Swisher:They're transactional. You know, during, at one point when I was talking to one of them and I said, if Kamala Harris had become president, you would have suddenly called yourself they, them, or whatever it took. They will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I wouldn't have required them to do that. Of course you wouldn't. Right. But, I mean, here is the thing is that, And that's too bad that we are existing in a world where some of the most powerful people in the world are not understanding that what you do matters. Right. I've always asserted that it's because they've never felt unsafe a day in their lives.

55:47A lot of them, right.

55:49Kara Swisher:And they aren't unsafe even now in a lot of ways. or they're protecting themselves to be so. I mean, define safety. Right. Right. Here's part of this dynamic that you raise is also a dynamic where they, meaning, okay, talk about they, them,

56:15are gaslighting and scapegoating, but gaslighting the American people to suggest that your predicament is to blame on the powerless instead of the powerful. Look at what they're doing. They're basically saying to folks, you have less because of people who have even less than you. That's what they're doing. And part of, again, communicating with our friends and our neighbors to at least help us all see what's happening and how we're being manipulated is to see just that, that they're deflecting from the responsibility of the powerful by pointing fingers and blaming people who are relatively powerless.

57:09All these attacks on immigrants, these DEI attacks, all of that. And that's part of the truth telling that we all have to do right now is to point out that there are a whole lot of very powerful people that actually could do something.

57:27Kara Swisher:Which they won't, just in case you're interested. Who aren't. They will not. They love to cheer for the overdog, as they say. What's ahead for the country's future, and especially the Democratic Party's role in it? Talk a little bit about that, what we were talking about, the idea of where you keep talking about consumers being the strength, voters being the strength. You're seeing it as a prosecutor, you're seeing juries not, or not convicting people. You know, here in DC, it happened several times. Right, the grand juries. Yeah. So what I'm seeing is, um, a lot of people on edge. Um, what I'm seeing is that we're nine months in and folks are rested plenty of us I will speak for myself stopped watching cable news for quite some time and are now rested and and ready to get back in the streets that folks are you know the people I'm talking with who for example have read the book are are remembering and are talking with each other about let's get back that thing that we had because it's still in us you know in terms of how people are thinking about the democratic party Look, I think part of what is frustrating about some of the punditry about it all and the future of the Democratic Party is this whole savior complex.

59:08I'm kind of bored with it. This idea that there will be one savior who will come down to rally and we will all be saved. That person's not on Earth right now.

59:27you know what I'm saying? And, and, but, but, but more importantly, I must say, we have so many stars in the party. We have so many stars and let's focus on that instead of who is the one to the point that it's just a circular conversation. Instead of seeing the, at a local, mayors, to attorneys general, to governors, to members of Congress.

59:56Kara Swisher:Well, name some of those stars. What do you see? It's not a singular person. The mayor of Baltimore is here right now. He's one of them. Where is he? Wait, is, where, where, he's here. I can't see him. Where are you? There he is.

1:00:22Yeah. Jasmine Crockett. Robert Garcia. I could go through the list of all the Democratic governors right now. I just talked to J.B. Pritzker. My governor, Gavin Newsom. I mean, there are so many who are doing great things. And so let's share the understanding that we are not without fighters. We're not without fighters.

1:00:56Kara Swisher:What do those people share that you just named? Is it fighting? What do you think is necessary going forward? I think they are in it for the right reasons.

1:01:09they're not they're not just looking in the mirror every day they're for the people and looking out for the people

1:01:19Kara Swisher:when you think about the most critical element of those things looking out for the people would be the number one thing if you don't mind i'm going to ask you to assess some of the republicans just briefly i'm going to go through a quick list jd vance i want one or two words I don't do that. You don't do it. All right. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Well, talk about your own goals going forward. The inevitable, are you running for president in 2028? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe, maybe not? Correct. Maybe, maybe not. Okay. Let's do a thought experiment. It's January, 2029. You've just been inaugurated as president.

1:02:09Kara Swisher:You knew I'd get you on this one. What are your top priorities in the first? I want to talk about two things, the policies you'd undo and actually what you would do. It's much too early to have that conversation, Cara. I literally yesterday would not have known that this Department of Justice would have indicted the New York Attorney General. um but but i'll go back to an earlier point i do believe that part of the the responsibility right now for the democratic party is we really do have to deal with the immediate needs of the american people i actually in reflection one of the things i would have done differently and i talk about a few things, but one of them on this topic.

1:02:56I really do think we should have done the family's piece of Build Back Better before we did the Infrastructure and the CHIPS Act. It was good, good work. That was good work, the infrastructure, the CHIPS Act, all was very good work, but it didn't address immediate needs. In the family care piece of it, it was the extension of the child tax credit. It was affordable child care. It was paid leave. And I think we have to just be clear-eyed about the fact that we need to deal with the immediate and long-term issues, both of which are the climate crisis, for example. And we have to really prioritize immediate needs because I think that is one of the main issues on which people vote.

1:03:57So let's just be clear-eyed and practical about that.

1:04:00Kara Swisher:So you wrote this about your concession speech. While I would concede this election, while I would engage in the peaceful transfer of power that distinguishes democracy from monarchy or tyranny, I would not concede the fight that fueled my campaign. So I'd like to hear you talk about that fight to end this. And what does it look like for you? And mostly, what can Americans do to push back this march towards autocracy? I think we're already in it, but that's the phrase people use, this march towards autocracy. And there was a question that came in online when I asked what I should ask you. What does that look like for your nieces in their 30s?

1:04:42Yeah, I think about that all the time. Right. So talk about that fight.

1:04:50So, one, it's about elections, and that means focusing on part of this administration and what it's highlighted is what has been a longstanding issue about how they will weaponize law enforcement even at the local level. So that's about sheriff's elections. That's about DA's elections, state's attorney's elections, attorney's general elections, governor's elections. We have two governor's races happening right now. Let's all put our resources and time into that and take nothing for granted. No matter how good our candidates are, take nothing for granted and put our resources into it. So it's about elections.

1:05:32It's about one of the issues, again, that we are seeing happen every day that we have some power over. They want to threaten with lawsuits our nonprofit organizations. right they're going after them they're literally suggesting that human rights organizations civil rights organizations should be the subject of of litigation and prosecution let's go and volunteer at those organizations right now they are so strapped whether it be an organization that is doing civil rights work immigrants rights work tenants rights work working on on on climate they're so strapped right now that's the kind of work we do so we can build back up those advocacy organizations that when we get back in power will be part of our version of project 2025 it is the work that we need to do i i cannot stress this enough run for school board and encourage people to do that.

1:06:38How they have weaponized, and this has been, again, years in the making, DeSantis in Florida. We saw it happening. And now they're trying to get rid of the Department of Education and Head Start and free lunches. Let's get parents who understand, yes, parents' rights to say what's happening and to enforce putting resources into our public schools and teaching children history as it occurred instead of this revisionist. You know, so there is that kind of work that needs to happen. I go back to the point about consumers' rights. Let's pay attention to which corporation and which industry are, you know, doing things that we don't like and figure out how we vote with our pocketbook in those areas.

1:07:31is run for office. Encourage people that you know who want to do something based on a solution to a problem to run for office. There are these things that we can do that include another issue. We have a massive amount of distrust in our country right now. A distrust that the people have in our government and our systems. I think largely fueled by also the distrust that so many people rightly had after the pandemic about the system just failing them. But we also have an extraordinary amount of distrust right now between the American people. Americans don't trust each other right now. and it's it's more than I don't I'm gonna lock my door at night Americans don't trust that someone else is not out to harm them that someone else is not out to threaten their very existence and that's real and we have some deep work to do that's about building back up to that trust between the people and between the people and our government and our systems.

1:09:00And part of the responsibility for the government is we actually need to do a better job. There's going to be a lot of debris when this administration is done. There's going to be a lot of broken stuff. and part of what I write about is when it comes time then to be about rebuilding and hopefully transformation let's not be too nostalgic because it's not like what we had before was that perfect either and a lot of it was broken and needs to be fixed right so both

1:09:45Kara Swisher:both rebuild and and and and and and and and and and and and and and yeah yeah not reinvent invent yeah and invent yes you called yourself a joyful warrior in your in your campaign how would you describe yourself right now I'm still a joyful warrior yeah would you add anything else no i i am you know emphasis on warrior

1:10:20but no i listen i think we we fight for something more than anything we are fighting for something and we are not going to do it in a way that we don't allow ourselves a moment to have a good laugh or sing a song or dance or love or enjoy anything that brings that enjoyment. These things are consistent with one another. The fight is consistent with allowing yourself something that feeds your heart and your soul and your spirit. That's what the fight is. I'll end it with this. I ended every rally with the call and response when we fight we win and on and Adam was with me Kirsten everybody was with me so we know the outcome of the election and it was an awful night and every there were so many people that were at Howard that night we all thought we were going to have a victory speech and we asked everybody to come back the next day and I needed to give a different speech and I had to reconcile in my head and for everyone who would be there how do I reconcile that I kept saying especially to our young people I kept saying when we fight we win how do I help them understand that this is not as trite as all you win some you lose some and then on the way to Howard I actually wrote in but the fight takes a while sometimes and that's it sometimes the fight takes a while so knowing that we have to have that level of endurance and we need some sustenance let's allow ourselves to be joyful and to fight knowing that we can make a difference, knowing that we're not going to let any one election or circumstance or individual dampen our spirit and our sense of optimism.

1:12:28They cannot defeat our spirit if we don't let them. If they do, they're winning, and they're not winning if we don't let them.

1:12:40Kara Swisher:Today's show was produced by Christian Castro Rossell, Kateri Yoakum, Michelle Alloy, Megan Burney, Kaylin Lynch, and Devin Schwartz. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Rosemary Ho and Catherine Barner. This episode was engineered by Aaliyah Jackson, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you don't have to worry about your circumcision. If not, then you get to hang out with J.D. Vance on the couch. Go over your list in a podcast, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. You can also find us on YouTube and all socials at On with Kara Swisher.

1:13:19Kara Swisher:Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.

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