Miranda Is Not the Villain, with The Devil Wears Prada 2’s Writer & Director

23:52Kara Swisher:Right? So to that point, the new movie comes, as we said, 20 years after the original. Things have changed in journalism, a lot due to tech, by the way. And in 2006, Andy Sachs, played by Anne Hathaway, had to choose between a career in elite fashion magazine or a newspaper. As my wife noted, she'd be lucky to find a job now in media at all. You could have leaned into a more glamorous fantasy world for the sequel. Instead, the film acknowledges the harsh reality. The industry has changed. David, how did—because it's a—I walked out of it and I said, you know, someone asked me. I said, well, it's real pretty, and it's even prettier, and it's more colorful, and the fashion is more, and it's funny as ever.

24:31Kara Swisher:But it's very serious. It's a very deep movie about this. Talk about why you took this approach. Well, we are living in challenging times. I don't need to tell you, Cara. And I think we are all living under the cloud of the future, you know, and that's just this very strange phenomenon. I grew up thinking, you know, the future was bright and rosy and, you know, go off, young man, make your future, you know, make your way in the world. And I now, you know, I have kids who are 24 years old, Alina's kids about the same age. And we're hard put to point them in the right direction. You know, where is the right step?

25:15Especially my daughter is interested in film. And journalism and Hollywood are in about the same shape. L.A. has become a very bleak place, I'm told. And the industry feels like it has shrunk dramatically in the last five years. And it feels like it's destined to shrink dramatically even more in the next five years. So where do we go? And that's, you know, that's obviously true in journalism. And that's true, I imagine, in law and probably even in medicine. You know, I met with the CEO of a major bank last summer and she told me that, you know, probably it could be 100 ,000 people are going to be affected by AI.

26:00uh it's so if you're making a movie that's about the world of media uh it has to reflect the the reality i mean that's you know one of our goals is to as light and entertaining as we want the movie to be is to also make it authentic and you know and in the first movie we were able to pepper it with you know a handful of people and scenes that made it feel like oh this is really the world And we tried again, you know, very hard to give it that. And honestly, you know, it all starts with Meryl Streep. She understands it's valuable to make an entertainment, but she also wants her work to be about something.

26:39And I think we share that ambition.

26:44Kara Swisher:We'll be back in a minute.

26:53it.

26:54Kara Swisher:This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar. IQ Bar, protein bars, IQ Mix, hydration mixes, and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious low sugar brain and body fuel you need to win your day. No matter your age or fitness, we all need the proper fuel to get us through the day. And when you're really hungry and low energy, it's tempting to reach for those high fat, high sugar goodies that you'll regret 20 minutes later, you can do better with IQ Bar. Their ultimate sampler pack is a great way to try all IQ Bar products and flavors. You get nine IQ Bars, eight IQ Mixed Sticks, and four IQ Joe Sticks.

27:30Kara Swisher:I've tried all of it and actually they're quite good. I do eat nutrition bars quite a bit and I find these incredibly tasteful. The IQ Mixed Sticks make great drinks. I do them on ice and really they're nice and refreshing. And I really like the IQ Joe sticks, their coffee, and they give me a little boost. And right now IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20 % off all IQ Bars, including the ultimate sampler pack plus free shipping. To get your 20 % off, text CARA to 64000. Text CARA to 64000. That's K-A-R-A to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details.

28:13Kara Swisher:Support for this show comes from Rippling. Nowadays, every business app claims to be all in one. But for some reason, you're still bouncing between a handful of platforms to run things smoothly. With Rippling, you can finally downsize to one platform that actually does it all. Rippling is the unified platform for global HR, payroll, IT, and finance. Workflows that normally bounce across several different tools and departments all just happen in one place automatically. Here's an example. You have an employee getting promoted. Rippling can update their payroll taxes, manage any new app permissions, ship them any new devices, issue a new corporate card, and assign trainings all in one platform without the fuss of dealing with 10 different logins to accomplish a short list of tasks.

28:56Kara Swisher:With Rippling, you can run your entire HR, IT, and finance operations as one, or pick and choose the products that best fill the gaps in your software stack. So if you and your company want to run the backbone of your business on one unified platform with people at the center, head to rippling.com slash Kara and sign up today. That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-G dot com slash Kara, K-A-R-A, to sign up.

29:23Kara Swisher:support for the show comes from hymns you don't want to just lose weight you want to look better and feel better that's why weight loss by hymns now offers access to the fda approved wagovi pill and the fda approved wagovi pen wagovi is designed to help you lose weight and keep it off so you can stay on track with your goals with wagovi at hymns you can lose up to 20 percent more of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise it helps you regulate your appetite and eat less so success is within reach. And now Wagovi is the first ever GLP-1 pill for weight loss, so there are no needles needed.

29:57Kara Swisher:Ready to start your goals? Visit hymns.com slash cara to get a personalized affordable plan that gets you. That's h-i-m-s.com slash cara, hymns.com slash cara. Weight loss by Hymns is not available in all 50 states. Wagovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Mugovie clinical study information and restrictions, visit HIMSS.com.

30:30Kara Swisher:So every episode we get an expert to send us a question and for you, both of you, we got two. The first one is for Aline. Let's hear it. Hi, my name is Lindsay Peeples. I'm editor-in-chief of Cut. I am very excited because I'm actually on my way to go see The Devil Wears product 2 right now with some of The Cut staff. And really my question is that when I think about this film 20 years ago, the fantasy of this film was that getting into the room with someone like Miranda was the ultimate pinnacle of their dreams and goals. Today, the fantasy I feel like is actually does that room even still exist.

31:08And I'm curious about what was the hardest part in writing this film and now bringing it to 2026 with a powerful editor, when it seems that a lot of the cultural authority and dominance of that role has really moved to, you know, platforms like social media, Substacks, and to talent. That's a great question. I mean, who are we listening to? Like, who's Walter Cronkite? Who's Diana Vreeland? Who's Saul Bellow? Like, who are the leading public figures that we're all supposed to like believe, trust, follow. And that was one of the reasons that I thought this was a good idea for a movie is because even as she's become more well known, the Miranda Priestly character, there's this, you know, incredible nichification of all these worlds so that like, you know, I'll meet somebody and mention it to my kids and they're like, you don't know who that is?

31:58That person's huge, you know? And then conversely, I'll be like, Like, wait, you don't know, like, they don't know who, they certainly don't know who Walter, I mean, my kids might know who Walter Cronkite is, but only because they're all. Madonna was just a recent one. Right, where like she came out and people kind of were, yeah. So it's like those, I think, you know, a friend of mine said. Who is this Madonna you speak of?

32:20Kara Swisher:Who is this Madonna? Somebody said to me, like, you know, it's important to dream of something that exists. So like for kids, like if you don't want to set your cap at something that doesn't exist anymore, you know, like it's going to be awfully hard to be this sort of like all encompassing authority when not just the niche vacation, but also we just don't trust people the way we used to. You know, we still look to people as being infallible or fallible in the way we used to. And so she's on her back on her heels right from the beginning. Yeah, and her good work doesn't get many clicks or don't go viral, etc., which you discuss with her.

33:00The idea of a loss leader, you know how they would always say the news is a loss leader? That's not a thing.

33:05Kara Swisher:You can't have a loss leader anymore. No. So let's get to our second expert question. David, you take this one. Hi, I'm Amy LaRocca. I'm a writer and a journalist. But what qualifies me as an expert today is not only was I the fashion director at New York Magazine for many years, I also worked at Vogue magazine at the exact same time as Lauren Weisberger. In fact, Lauren is the person who walked me back from my first job interview with Anna Winter. So I guess you could say I was an eyewitness to the devil wearing Prada and that whole era at Vogue. So my question today is, given how much fashion has moved in a much more inclusive and generous direction in the past 20 years since the original film came out, away from the idea that fashion should be gatecapped, that it was only for these sort of skinny white women to see and enjoy.

34:05what do you think it is about that very sort of snotty exclusionary culture at Vogue that people still really really really love to watch they want the zingers they want Miranda's nasty zingers and all of it and everything about that is what we're being told fashion has moved away from, and yet the fans can't get enough of Miranda. They're lining up, dressed up as their favorite characters to see this movie. So what do you think it is about fashion and bitchiness that is so appealing to audiences? Well, yes, I think, first of all, yes, fashion has opened up a little bit. I think, you know, anytime we get a peek into the people past the curtain of these Wizards of Oz, it's always fascinating.

35:13And the crueler they are, the more curious we are. There is something I think that Aline mentioned a few minutes ago, which is sort of that vicarious thrill. And honestly, it's kind of the way we probably view some of the billionaires and maybe even the way people view Trump. It's, you know, boy, would I love to be able to trump through the world, crushing everything in my sight. There's some kind of vicarious thrill. And I don't know why the fashion world does seem to attract people who are extremely opinionated. and vocal about their opinions. And again, I think most of us are a little more restrained.

36:00And so we're fascinated by people who let it all hang out that way. Yeah. I love the intense seriousness about silly things. Like, did you guys, have you guys seen that Chanel half shoes that just came out? Yeah. They're half a shoe. They end at the middle of your arch and then your toes are out. And I don't know how much they are, but I'm going to guess they're$1 ,000. They're from Matthew Blazes. Yeah. and you know people are going to lust after those and like resell them and get really i'm sorry and it's like cut to me buying them by the way but like um it's just there's like an intense intense seriousness about like there's a line in the sequel where she goes uh what about rodeo bow ties and it's like the idea that you're like a very very serious person and then you end up talking about very silly things that I think is there's something kind of delightfully comedic about that.

36:57And so that's something I've always, that's why I think drying up the tone has always been really important and something I think David's done extremely well. So like, cause it can get real silly really quickly.

37:08Kara Swisher:Right. Absolutely. So let's get real silly really quick. Finishing up talking about the movie. I am not a fashion person right now. I'm wearing a shirt that's called a blanket shirt because it's so comfortable. I am a soft pants gal, but I loved the fashion in it. And my mom was a fashion coordinator, Bombweteller, so she loved fashion. And so I spent my youth in the back of a fashion show. So I know a lot about fashion, but I just never, it never stuck as my mother likes to tell me. But talk about the fashion and its character. It worked even more in this movie. It was just astonishing. Talk about fashion as a character, because it's like on 12 at this point.

37:50Thank you. I mean, you know, obviously, after the first movie, there's an enormous expectation. So, so much went into it. It starts with the collaboration with the stars and with Molly Rogers, our costume designer, who inherited the mantle from Patricia Field, who did it in the first movie. and I've worked with both of them for 30 years. I learned how to shoot fashion doing sex in the city 20 years ago. And, you know, when in doubt, start, tilt up from the shoes was always our mantra. You had to make sure you saw the shoes. But I think the bar was set so beautifully high in the first movie, and Molly felt this daily pressure to raise it even higher for this movie.

38:33I mean, again, it all ties into how do we make an event? how do we make it something different and even more than what fans are expecting? And how do we make it something accessible and exciting for people who aren't even familiar with the first movie? So there are fashion shows in this movie that are grander and larger, but they also matter even more. I think it's making the fashion integral to the characterization. I don't know that they're integral to the plotting, but you really understand who these people are by what they wear. And, you know, Emily's character just working at Dior, it was, you know, we're starting with a sort of very simple idea that, oh, she mostly wears Dior.

39:24And then how within that world do we create Emily Charlton? And Andy's character was probably the biggest challenge because you're trying to create some simulation of reality for her as a journalist who's been traveling on a journalist budget for 20 years and now coming back into this world. And we rationalized it by saying, well, she, like you, she has learned nose fashion. And now she's starting to reincorporate it into her life. And she's collected pieces over the years. And now she has access to the closet. I would never wear it. But you'd look great in it. And you'd know when you looked great.

40:05Never. It was a really important part of the characterizations was the clothing. And I worked really, really closely with Molly. I spent a lot of time with Molly, partly because costumes is my happy place. But, you know, Meryl's character has a different look. Her look has evolved, and she works really closely with Molly on, like, storytelling through her clothing. I've never seen an actor be more—it was almost like she was picking out armor to play a samurai or something. Like, she's very specific about it. And then Emily always has license to go over the top, and Nigel has this, like, established kind of crispness to it.

40:42and it's all updated. But as David said, you know, Annie's character, Andy was the biggest challenge because what I used to say to Annie was, it's like as if you lived in France for six months. So you speak some French, but not perfect French. So you have an ear for it, but it's not perfect. So we blended and then Molly sourced a tremendous amount of vintage. But apart from that, I think I just, the logistics of what Molly and her team did is so overwhelming because - We did do that huge fashion show with Gaga. Spoiler alert, there's a giant fashion show and they pulled everything for that. And then she was pulling things that were like really current for the fashion montage when you see our main characters arrive in Milan and then they change a lot.

41:27And like, that's all very current, but it had to be current and timeless. And Molly has resources. She just has things from all over. And I'll share with you one of her fashion rules that she gave me that I've quoted a lot. Because, I mean, we had super high-end stuff and really expensive things. But then, you know, Molly's also a magpie and, like, picks things from everywhere. And one time she, we were looking at something, she said to me, you know, darling, sometimes the red earrings are from CVS. And I have really taken that to heart. I quoted that to people many times. Because, you know, it's like that high-low, like, putting, it's the styling in addition to just finding the items.

42:09it's how they're put together you know so it's like I think when you watch the movie you think it's just clothes but the language and the storytelling of what Molly did so we spent a lot a lot of time talking because I'm also I've been obsessed with clothing since I was like 12 or 13 because I used it to kind of transform my you know I was like incredibly uncool um not that I'm cool now but I was unbelievably uncool and then I had to figure out a way to like get a little cooler and get some boys to like me. And it was really about like going downtown in New York and wearing vintage skirts and lace stockings and trying to craft something that was like Cher meets Madonna that would like make me cool.

42:50And that's what I love about fashion is that it's a way of talking about yourself without saying anything. So I've always loved it and been obsessed with it. I was going to ask, what was your experience in dressing so authentically as Kara Swisher in our movie.

43:06Kara Swisher:That's a good question, David. Did Molly oversee your costume? Yes, she did. Well, Cara's very, she's shy about this, but like, we didn't give anybody lines because if you give non-actors lines, they get very tangled up in it. We just, David just kind of walked over and told you what was going on. And I got to say, I don't know, not log rolling, but like you just nailed like what a person would really say. And that authenticity is super, super important to David always and like as a collaborator I will say like even just assembling those people for that party I know it seems like we just stocked it with people because like to be fab but like Miranda's friends had to be the best at what they do and then the people at the party had to be like the chicest people who would show up at that party so I know it seems like it's all like for fun and confection but it really had to feel like the right sorts of people and luckily this time because of the success of the movie, we were able to pull the clothes and the people and really populate.

44:05Like, there's no fake designer in this movie. There's Dior. And the first movie, we invented a designer.

44:11Kara Swisher:Yeah, I have to say, everybody, I've been wearing the same clothes since four years old. So you're welcome. And the Oscar goes to Kara Swisher for her fantastic portrayal of herself again. We'll be back in a minute.

44:33Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

45:14Kara Swisher:Recommendations can be amazing. I mean, maybe someone recommended that TV show you've been obsessed with lately. But when it comes to home projects, it's different. If you don't like a show, you might lose a few minutes. If you hire a friend of a friend of a friend to fix a leaky ceiling, you could end up with a flooded kitchen. Maybe I know a guy just isn't enough for your home. That's why Thumbtack works so well. They'll match you with a top-rated local pro, and you can see photos of past work, credentials, and reviews all right in the app. For your next home project, try Thumbtack. Hire the right pro today.

45:55Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com.

46:22Kara Swisher:Let's pivot and talk about the intersection of, because this is a topic in your movie very much so, tech, Trump, Hollywood, and media. Paramount's deal that by Warner Brothers Discovery is causing agia in Hollywood. The fear is that it will lead to more job losses and fewer films. Thousands of Hollywood professionals have signed an open letter opposing the deal. Neither of you have signed, neither of the stars of the film, Emily Blunt, Anne Hathaway, Meryl Streep, and Stanley Tucci. I get that. And I've talked to a number of the people who have signed and why, But I'm wondering how you're feeling as these moguls like Paramount CEO David Ellison has cozied up to Trump, you know, taking over and changing CBS News.

47:02Kara Swisher:Their fears will do a version of that at CNN. I have publicly said I will not be working for the Ellisons. And, of course, Trump this week is trying to get Disney, which is this film, to fire Jimmy Kimmel again. I'd love to know how you're feeling about these moments because, again, Disney owns 20th Century Studios, which is distributing The Devil Wears Prada. Thoughts on what's happening right now? Because Benji has won right now in this situation, and I'm not going to say what happens in the movie, but Benji has won all over the place, whether it's Jeff Bezos at The Washington Post or wherever it happens to be.

47:39Well, you know, this was part of the conversation that we had 20 years ago, because at the time, Rupert Murdoch owned 20th Century Fox, which had published the novel. You know, they owned the imprint to publish the novel, and Rupert was actually a driving force toward getting the movie made. And so there was this conflict in everybody who ever went to work for Rupert because we knew what he was doing to the press at large and we knew that we rarely aligned with his political sensibility. And I believe that those same fears are even larger today when there's a political misalignment. And it's why are people anxious about buying anything from Amazon today?

48:30Because where is Jeff Bezos going with his money? If he's supporting Trump, can he really just keep one foot on each side of a divide? Are these guys really just neutral or are they going to tip the scales? And again, it's part of our not knowing. I think it's the doubt we have about the future goes to the democracy, the technology, everything seems in doubt. And I also worked for Rupert Murdoch. We were too busy to sign. Yeah, no. Yeah. So we did not quit. We made a hit movie. So we're probably part of the problem.

49:11Kara Swisher:I left and did my own company. Right. No, and I admired that at the time. I think everyone has to make their own choices. It's kind of what the movie's about. You know, it's like, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, this time around, Andy has to embrace working for Miranda and working for whoever is the billionaire who owns it. You know? Yeah. And I think so many of us are in that position. Yeah, there's a line in the movie about like being a, if you're a visionary or a vendor. And I think, you know, as a writer, young writer, especially, you're sort of an entrepreneur, you know, you've got your little satchel of things you're trying to sell.

49:47And I used to tell writers, don't read the trades, because honestly, the system was so stable. It was like, you don't really need to know who's in or who's out at these companies, because it's so stable. and now it's like you open the trades or the new york times or whatever it's like oh that company doesn't exist anymore you know or has been bought or it's disappeared or is you know the we made this movie for 20th century fox and now we're with disney you know like you have to now in hollywood there's such seismic shifts like every day so for young people to break in it's just figuring out like who's buying what how can i make a living you know i really feel for for young people who were trying to break in and then you had this layer of, you know, what worries me is people who own these businesses where it's not their core business.

50:35Because when it's not their core business, they can delete it like that. And that always scares me because they can wake up any day and go, you know what, never mind. This is too much trouble. These people are too annoying. It's this process is too unwieldy. And then it goes away. And so this instability is really just was not the case. And now it's like, you have to know what's going on.

50:56Kara Swisher:Yeah, that's very well said. I just, one of the things is, you know, some people are like, well, we have a good billionaire. I go, none of them are. They can change in a second. Like, that's the thing is the shifting. And also it's like, why are we relying on the kindness of billionaires, even the nice ones, right? I was with one this weekend and he was like, well, you like me. And I go today, today I like you but it could change well you know when you live in that world I mean you would know more than we would but like when you're in that world and you're just in a thing where you're like summoning your plane like I remember somebody like there's a famous story about a producer getting on a plane and um saying like you know uh they don't give you the warm nuts anymore like where do you sit where you get the warm like there's just there's there's some quote about like there's no habit of the rich which one sample does not become an addiction and it's like once you are so accustomed to like, you're playing your, I mean, I don't know, but I feel like there's something that changes the molecules of your brain so that things seem possible that maybe shouldn't seem possible.

52:01And that's why there's a line in the movie where she says, how long have you had a house here? And he goes, I have no idea. And just the idea that like, you could have forgotten that you bought a house in Lake Como. A stunning house. Yeah. I think I don't know that I'll ever know what it's like to live that day to day, but it does seem like it changes people's idea of like what they can and should do.

52:23Kara Swisher:Right. Well, what's interesting is I call it the Kashmir prison. They go from the plane to the chief and they have chiefs of staff everywhere. And whenever one of them comes up to me with one of their chiefs of staff starts talking to me, I'm like, I'm not speaking to you. So either get the principal or move away from me. And I literally go. Wasn't there a thing of like rich people not having coats because they don't ever, yeah. Yes, it happened. That happened to me and I was like, you're such an asshole. But, you know, and I used to be able to do that and now they won't, they don't want people like me around because I'm pointing out the obvious.

52:58Kara Swisher:All right, two more quick questions and I'll let you go. We obviously can't not talk about AI because everyone has to talk about AI. And actually it's an important and inevitable topic no matter where you turn. David, directing is all about taste and point of view, something AI can't replicate. I hope. Great writing finds a way to take very personal, specific experiences to make them feel universal again. Again, something AI can't do, at least not yet. It can't mine its personal experiences because it doesn't have experiences. But will it always be that way? Can you imagine someone with real creative talent training at LLM to write and direct truly amazing films?

53:36I can imagine AI surprising us. Yes. I think AI will be able to write jokes and the essence of a joke is surprise. And it will learn what timing is. You know, it'll speak in a voice that we find amusing. So that's sort of the germ of it. Beyond that, storytelling. You know, I think the canary in the coal mine right now is music. People are listening to it and they can't really discern the distinction between something that's machine created and the human sweat poured into it. So I'm not going to be shocked when AI starts to take over first. You know, it'll be these microdramas at first, and it will slowly expand, and people won't see it coming.

54:30And I think that's what's so beautifully expressed in Aline's speech for Benji near the end of the movie, which is it'll be like the lava of Pompeii. You know, it'll just roll over us and we'll be buried in it. So I'm very pessimistic. Wow.

54:49Kara Swisher:Jesus, David. Jesus, David. All right. Aline? Well, it's funny. I don't think we know because like when email, when we first got email, I don't know that I thought that's on a continuum to me doing the Apple dance with my son's girlfriend on Instagram. Like, I don't think we know where it's going to lead. I don't use AI for anything except for like, hey, what's a good restaurant or like, where's the nearest anthropology? It's very unsmart. And like one day I said, blah, blah, blah, you know, on Sunday, the 19th, and it said the 19th is Saturday. And I'm like, not very nice to my AI. And I was like, dude, it's not.

55:28It's Sunday. And then, you know, it does that like, super obsequious thing. Have you seen that guy on the internet who's constantly making the chat mess up? Like, if you ask it, I have found it to be like, I have not seen the super competent stuff. I know this take is going to age poorly. That's okay. But for what I use it for, which is like, what's a good place to eat? And, you know, I'm in a new city. What's a cool place to hang out? And then, like, I was in Europe, and I was like, okay, find me a place to eat right where I am. and then it's like oh they have great sushi hand rolls here and then i go and it's closed and i'm like my my friend what don't send me to close restaurants and it's like you know how it does that obsequious yeah yeah i'm so terribly sorry of course you blah blah blah and then it it i don't know i i haven't uh i'm not even tempted to use it for anything other than that because i don't it doesn't seem to know what day is sunday and saturday and of course this is going to be This is going to be dumb later when it's like control.

56:27I'm right in the middle.

56:28Kara Swisher:I'm in the middle between both of you. I'm saying this as it's going to control, listen to me through my toaster and report me. I mean, we already, look how much we've, I mean, look, we've been living with AI since the iPhone was invented, basically. You know, we've all surrendered our phone numbers and our maps and God knows what other, our photos, our tasks, you know, so much of it. We've lost the capability ourselves, and we've handed it over to the machines. And any time we can do that, we seem vulnerable. And anything that the machine is pointed at, it will eat. I mean, it's kind of, you know, look, it's— Yes, it's the Borg.

57:10Kara Swisher:It is the Borg. Yeah. You saw that movie. Yes. It's the Borg. Yeah. It's the Borg. Yeah. It is. I keep telling people that. So last question. The original film asked whether professional success is worth the tremendous personal sacrifice. 20 years later, has that answer changed? I think it's worth the sacrifice. But David, you go first, and Aline, you get the last word. Yes. Look, I believe that whatever your definition of personal happiness is the most important thing, and work be damned, but it's really where you set your priorities. But I personally have, I feel like I've made the sacrifices that Miranda Priestly has made at times.

57:58She talks about missing so much of her children's lives, and I feel that. And at the same time, there are just enormous rewards and gratifications that come with it. I imagine you feel the same way. Absolutely. And you can't imagine your life without it. And so I hope that Andy, the character going forward, continues to aim high and uses Miranda as a model and doesn't compromise. I can only speak for myself that, you know, I feel that you have to make, that the system doesn't care about you and it's not going to offer you choices. And that's very much the way our country is. Like, we're not going to make an accommodation.

58:42Like, that's just not the way we are. And, but for me, like I decided to stick to screenwriting instead of TV writing when I had little kids. Because screenwriting allows you to sit at home and TV you have to go or someone tells you when you can pee and eat and go home. So the system is not going to care about you. If you want to maintain a balance, you have to do it. And that's why, like I say to my kids or young people, think about what you love to do. But also think about what do you want your days to be like? How soft do you need your pants to be? Like, do you need someone to tell you where to go to lunch?

59:14Do you want to sit at a desk? Like, the only thing about, you know, making choices is like, make choices for yourself and try not to have choices be made upon you. And the only way you can do that is by educating yourself about like what the day to day of it is. and so that's something that I don't think we talk about a lot which is like literally do you are you a person who needs to take a nap are you a person who you know wants to get up and walk around and I think one thing that the pandemic showed us was that like we could do this from home where I'm in my office Steve it's in Miami and like just just making it work for you but there's always going to be things that you miss and I my very first work trip after my kids were born because I didn't go anywhere was the first Prada table read.

1:00:01I went to New York and my son, it happened to fall, of course, on his first day of preschool. And I have a picture of him holding a pink prince, a fuzzy pink pretend princess phone trying to call me from the preschool. Yeah. Oh, you're killing me. That my friend sent me and I was like devastated because he just didn't understand where I was. And then now I always, you know, ask them like, it was fine. It was good. You liked it, right? Like you like having a mom who, you know, any, any room to say, I don't, I don't want to know otherwise, but it's fine.

1:00:36Kara Swisher:You make your choices. You, yeah, you see where I know. Yeah. And Andy, I mean, by the way, I just will end with this. Andy doesn't have kids and she's not married. And, um, that was really important to Andy. And that was something she said to me right away was like that But she once said to me, like, there's a way to be in your 40s that we're not talking about. And I thought that was really cool. Like, she's not made the choices that are dictated to her. And that's why the love relationship in the movie is like just seeing her meet someone and go out on a date. She can do that, you know. But showing women that there's anyone, really, that you can make choices for yourself.

1:01:15Kara Swisher:And I certainly won't ruin the movie. But the last picture, they're all where they want to be. Yeah. They're all where they want to be. And that's a fantastic picture. Oh, thank you. I'm not going to say what it is, but it's really powerful, actually, the very last image that you get of them. I have to ask this. Is there going to be a sequel to the sequel? We have a stock answer if you want to hear that. Sure, I'll hear your stock answer. Which is that we love these characters and we love these actors. And any opportunity to work with them again, we would embrace. 20 years from now, though, I think I'm going to be a little tuckered out.

1:01:54What about you, David? A little faster. A little faster if you're going to do it. It's going to have to come around. Yeah, we're not getting younger.

1:02:02Kara Swisher:Yeah, I think there's one more go here. There's one more chapter, but that's just me. Anyway, I hope it works out. It's a wonderful movie. You guys are such talents. And one of the things I said to someone, you know, Scott was arguing with me about sequels. Oh, sequels are so tired. before. And I went to the movie and I said, no, you're wrong here. What happened is these people were astonishingly talented. They made an amazing movie 20 years ago, and now they're even better. Like all of them, every single person involved in this movie, the music people, the costume people, they're different costume people, but the director, the actors, I said, they're just better at it even more so.

1:02:41Kara Swisher:And so this is why this movie, this is a perfect sequel in that regard. Thank you. That means everything to us. Yeah, that means a lot. Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having us.

1:02:56Kara Swisher:Today's show was produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Michelle Aloy, Catherine Milsop, Megan Burney, and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Korwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Sam Lee, Catherine Barner, and Roella Rove. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan. and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, that's all. If not, by all means, move at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us.

1:03:36Kara Swisher:We'll be back on Thursday with more.

1:03:42Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

1:04:01Kara Swisher:Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com.