Nikki Glaser on Shame, Sex & Owning Who You Are

20:52So I think I'm always just drawn to the things that as a kid or teenager, I just felt like I couldn't talk about.

20:56Kara Swisher:So speaking of your parents, your dad was sitting in the front row of this. He's listened to that before, presumably, right? Yeah, I think he had heard it before. He'd come to see me on the road before. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He handled it well. You know, they have been through the whole thing with me. I started out, you know, 20-something years ago, really putting them on blast and talking about really disgusting stuff. Like, kind of, I was just, I was a late bloomer, so I was just kind of exploring my sexuality and really bringing it all on stage. And so my parents were always in the crowd supporting me and kind of just stayed quiet about it.

21:29They'd never shamed me about it or said, maybe don't do that or, oh, this is so embarrassing. But I came to find out later on that it was really embarrassing for them and really uncomfortable. And I just I never even considered their perspective on it. I think that if I would have, it would have it would have hindered my creativity in some way to consider how they felt and to have empathy for them in those moments. And I did have a moment, I would say 15 years in, where my dad was in the crowd and I was describing giving oral sex or something. And I just saw his shining bald head in the background.

21:59And I had to stop. And I was like, I cannot believe I'm doing this. Dad, it just dawned on me how uncomfortable that would be for him. It wasn't even about how I felt. I really, I don't have embarrassment around it for some reason. But I saw it from his perspective because I guess I could see my reflection in his head. And I was like, I am so sorry. And it was this like awakening on stage that happened in real time. And after that, I was a little bit more, you know, like I just told my parents, like, you can go to the bathroom for this part of my set if they would come to my show. Now, this one in particular, I was like, I think they can kind of handle everything that I'm talking about.

22:36But they're just so proud. They don't care.

22:38Kara Swisher:Yeah, your dad was asked about advice to others whose kids get in a comedy. He said, get some thick skin. Yes. Which I think is the right answer for a parent. That's it. Your special ends on a kind of full circle note. You talk about rejecting insecurity and feeling confident in the face of imperfection. Talk about that because that's where you get to, accepting yourself. And at the same time, it doesn't go away. Yeah. I don't think it ever goes away. I feel like I am always striving for, I guess, perfection. Acceptance of myself is more the thing that I'm trying to strive for now is acceptance.

23:14And I like that it's an ongoing battle. I think it is what fuels me to keep going and to even pursue this career because it's an empty pursuit. And if I wasn't trying to achieve the world thinking something of me and how they perceive me, I really wouldn't continue going. There's no point in doing it. I mean, the money is nice. So that is, you know, something that I like about it. But the attention, I mean, that comes from a really sad place. of wanting, expecting a crowd of people to sit for an hour and listen to me talk into a microphone. I'm not singing. There's no dancing. There's no lights.

23:52There's no video show. Like, I mean, it's really expecting a lot of a crowd. I'm honestly shocked that people go to comedy shows and have the attention span for it now. I'm always really impressed by people. I mean, I do as well, but I just, I'm always really proud of myself afterwards. Like I just watched someone monologize. It just feels like something that we shouldn't have the attention span for anymore. But I feel like I hope it never goes away. I kind of like my insecurities. And I'm secure in my insecurities is what I feel I am. I really am. Like, I feel like I had a friend once who was like, would never admit she had low self-esteem.

24:28And she would always say to me, I can't believe how you could admit that you have low self-esteem. That's just something I probably do have. She couldn't even say that she even, she was like, I might have it, but I would never, ever say that to anyone. and say it out loud and especially to everyone. And I just never felt shame about that. I really, I know that that's okay. And I just am, I'm always on a quest just to be as honest as possible. And I think that that is also, if I am as honest as possible and people still like me, then I guess I feel likable deep down because I think there's something about this business that feels so fake that when people like me because of, you know, the Golden Globes or a roast or a photo shoot I did or, you know, whatever it is, I can't really let it in because I'm like, well, that's not really me.

25:19You know, that's, it is me, but it's months and months of work that was to make this one version of me that is so glowy and so unattainable for me if I don't completely, like, you know, doing Golden Globes, I have to give up my entire life. It's not, it's like an Olympics. It's not something that I could keep doing forever. And so I don't really like the praise for that. But then there's the praise that comes where people go, well, then I'll praise you for how hard you work. And I'm like, well, I don't like that either because that means I'm not talented. That means, oh, you just work harder than everyone else.

25:53So I'm just never really satisfied. And I think I need that. It's the engine that fuels me.

25:59Kara Swisher:Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting because I think comics are very vulnerable and they're telling a story. And to hold people's attention is very difficult. I don't know if you remember, there's a movie Tom Hanks and Sally Field did about comics that still stays with me to this day. I don't know why. It wasn't a huge hit or anything else. Punchline, I think it was. Punchline, yes. What stays with you about it? The vulnerability of them and the insecurity and still walking out there. Cruelty a little bit towards each other. It was very unlike Tom Hanks, too, because he was a little bit cruel, right?

26:30Yeah, yeah.

26:31Kara Swisher:And the desperation. I just, every bit of, and Sally Field does that desperation better than anybody. Yes. Well, that's the comedy I like most is that is when someone is sharing a part of their psyche that's really shameful and that is, you know, is really embarrassing. I don't really like comedy that's just talking about the other day this happened or just observational comedy. Although I respect it and it's not something I can do, it just isn't my cup of tea. I really like when people are kind of humiliating themselves in a way that makes me like them more and feel closer to them and makes me like myself more.

27:09Kara Swisher:We'll be back in a minute.

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30:04We'll see you next time. day.

30:10Kara Swisher:Let's talk a little bit more about your style of comedy and some of the major themes you like to explore. Now, obviously, you noted this in the show. You gained a lot of fame from your appearances on Comedy Central roasts, a lot of good ones. The Tom Brady one really sent you over the top, I think. The jokes you made about him were brutal, and he was sitting right there, which I thought was great. Can you just talk about roasting? Is that a different thing? Because you kind of said it offhand, like, in an interesting way in the show. Yeah, it feels like a different skill. I mean, for me, it's about joke writing.

30:42That's what drew me to Rose most of all, is I love really tight jokes. I like one-liners. I like just a real sharp turn of phrase. It feels like little math problems. It just is, to me, has always been an expression of intelligence that I've respected. And, you know, the Mitch Hedbergs or the Stephen writes or Wendy Liebman's just these like just being so concise. So I always like that about it. Right. And also you don't need much of an attention span. You're just on to the next joke before you're bored. I really don't really enjoy storytelling comedians because I can't, I just don't care enough to walk through an entire story with them.

31:17And it's so, it's not very often that compelling the whole way through. And it feels too self-important, all the pauses and just expecting the audience to follow you on this journey to the bank. I just don't care. But so I always loved like the sharpness of the joke writing. And it was just something that, yeah, I think I first got started doing it just helping my friends write jokes. They were doing the roast and I would just submit jokes and see what I could get on. And I got some on and it was just such a good feeling to write a joke that people were talking about. And then I think the other thing I like about it is that it's like you get to be so brutally honest.

31:53I mean, yeah, you have to have the right amount of mean. And honesty is, it is mean, you know, like just Taylor Swift lyric, you called me up again just to break me like a promise. So casually cruel in the name of being honest, like you can be so mean, but, and just say, but I'm just telling you the truth. Do you not want the truth? And so it's, it's, it gives me permission to do that. That's why I like them as they're, it's protected by this. It feels like the most protected space of free speech of like, this guy signed up for this. they didn't give any parameters or they gave some and I'm abiding by them.

32:27And so now I have to find loopholes where I can hurt this person in ways they don't even know that they were going to be. What was the parameter there? You know, there was just like stuff of like, hey, maybe don't, you know, in the past roasts that I've done, it's just like, don't go after their kids. Don't go after maybe a person in their life who's sick or old or, you know, like it's stuff like that, that I always respect. I don't mind anyone telling me, hey, don't joke about this. It's going to hurt my feelings. Like, fair enough. And that's never my goal, but it is my goal to find an angle that other people haven't explored.

32:57Kara Swisher:Get the loophole. And when you get it, it's like that feeling of when you write a joke that no one else has thought of, and it's a new type of joke that none of the roasts have ever done. Because a lot of it, it's just like, you know, plug and play. Like, you can really write a good set using a lot of the same tropes and tricks that have been done before. So it's a really fun nut to crack. And it's just, yeah, and you're just allowed to be a psychopath for seven minutes. I mean, it's insane the things that I've gotten away with saying. Was there one joke you liked or wanted to put in? Yeah, there's always times, even with the Golden Globes, there's always times where it's like, oh, this is the best joke I've ever heard or written or, you know, someone in my writing staff writes.

33:38And, you know, you just can't do it because it's just going to make the room feel too weird or it's just too harsh for that moment, especially like a Golden Globes. And you just have to let it go and it's so painful. but you just think, okay, maybe I'll put that in my book someday when that person's dead or something.

33:57Kara Swisher:Speaking of the goal, you don't touch on politics a lot, although you did include some jokes about Epstein files in your opening monologue, which I thought was interesting. Talk a little bit about that, how you made the decisions there. Yeah. I mean, I was so immersed in it at that time anyway. I have gotten away from it like I think we all have, unfortunately. But Melania brought it back. She really did. And we still don't know exactly what that was preempting, but I'm waiting every day for that other shoe to drop. But yeah, I was reading so much about it. I was so mad about it. I mean, if you like true crime, there's a lot going on in there.

34:35And there's a lot that the mainstream media can't even report on because it's too grotesque to even paraphrase. I mean, it's like, it was crazy, the stuff I was getting into. So I think it was on my mind a lot. And also, it's one of those things that no one can deny is wrong. Like, that to me felt totally safe to go after because, you know, although there were people in that room that night that were definitely in the files, like, no one's going to say that's mean of me. It felt like a, you know, for lack of a better term, a safe space to go to. Right, right. for a monologue. And, but in the right way, because I think actually Epstein, you know, 2019 till, you know, the drop last winter was like kind of an easier joke to make and to reference because we didn't know the horrid details of it as much.

35:27And I think it was a little bit more risky given that, but I forget the joke. Oh yeah, it was like, oh, a lot of A-listers in the room tonight. And by A-listers, I mean people who are definitely on A-list that has been heavily redacted. So I feel like that was, That was safe enough because you're not getting into any of the details of it. And I didn't say his name, and it's just I said List. So there was a lot of things about that that I felt like.

35:48Kara Swisher:Well, List is now Epstein, just for people to be clear. Exactly, that word is been ruined. And your biggest hit was your CBS joke, though, I have to say. I think that one got the most attention. Were you surprised by that? No, I think I knew that. I was so happy that CBS did not cut that because, you know, that was one that I was really worried that they were going to see. And I would have understood if they were like, can you just not? Like, we're paying you a lot of money and we're putting a lot into this. Can you not throw us under the bus? But they liked it. And I think when I did it in rehearsals, a lot of the crew and cameramen were all laughing.

36:22And I think the powers that be saw that and just knew it was undeniably just gonna be a killer. And I think that they wanted, you know, they wanted that show to be killer. They wanted that headline. You know, they wanted the press that would maybe come from me doing that headline more than the bad press associated with it. And I thought it was really, I was really happy that they let me do it.

36:43Kara Swisher:It was a great joke. It was a great joke. Thank you. And I'm glad they let you do it. I hope they continue to let people do that. We'll see. So let's get to our expert question. Every episode, we get an outside expert to ask one. Here's yours. Hi, Kara and Nikki. It's your old friend, Judd Apatow, here in Savannah, Georgia, directing a movie during World War III. I have a question. Is it possible to be funny during World War III? Also, is it possible to not gain weight? How can we be funny when the world is so fucking weird? When our government is stranger than every single character from Dr. Strangelove?

37:29Kara Swisher:Anyway, just wondering. Bye. Well, he's a great example of someone who is continuing to be funny amidst all this. And I think that, no, I mean, I've really struggled with it because it's just made me so depressed that it's hard to be funny. And it's hard for me to even look at my own life and be funny about it or think that anything in my mundane life that I'm complaining about, like my lip filler is interesting for anyone to hear about. But, you know, I think that, I think we just have fatigue with all of it. And people need to, I do, I know that's often used a lot of like, we just need an escape.

38:07And it's just a reason people give to justify making bad art. But I think that it's true. I think people do want to think about anything else. And I think that I want to talk about anything else. And it's almost nostalgic to worry about the dumb stuff.

38:22Kara Swisher:It was interesting because you had said to Howard Stern that you pulled some political jokes from your monologue, for example, like Trump and ICE. Was it fatigue or that you just was hard to strike the right tone, as you noted? I just don't want to say his name, to be honest with you. Like, I just don't want to give him airtime. There were lots of jokes that, you know, said ICE and Trump and I just, and the ballroom, we had jokes about, you know, I just didn't want to say his name. I just felt like I knew he would be watching and I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of having anything to respond to.

38:57And I just and I don't want those words to come out of my lips. I mean, I can't even I really don't listen to him. I don't watch him. I just read what he says. I sometimes watch it on mute, but I really I can't I can't stomach it. And I don't talk about it on stage because when I'm doing my stand-up, I don't want to know who in my crowd might be on that side because I don't want to resent anyone in the crowd. Because then I get angry and it starts to—and no one likes an angry woman especially, but just in general, it just doesn't mix well. And I can just—when I get heckled or something or something disarms me on stage and there's an angry side to me, I just lose the crowd instantly.

39:39It's like they don't trust me anymore. Like the bus driver that is like driving the kids to school is suddenly like freaking out and then everyone gets scared. And so I just, I try not to just, I try not to talk about it because the times that I have and I felt like the crowd go in a certain way, I just start, you know, aiming my jokes at only the side that I like. And I'm just, and these people made money and I don't want to make them feel bad. And it's not their fault that they have the ideology that they have. I would too if I had their same brain and grew up in the same family and the same place in America.

40:10Like I try to remember that no one has free will and everyone that likes him, I would like him too if I was that person. I try to remember that. I feel lucky that I have the brain that I have that knows, you know, how ridiculous it all is.

40:24Kara Swisher:Right. No, it also does bring down, I mean, some of the comedy can be very funny, but it's sort of not funny. Like you see a lot of the daily shows and stuff like that, and they do a nice job, I have to say. I like Kimmel's anger at it. You know, like Kimmel is able to harness his anger and frustration with it in a way that I really find soothing to me. And also, you know, Jon Stewart's just consternation at it all and frustration is a really funny device for it. Yeah, it was great that he was the one being saved by Jesus Trump. That was... Was that him? Was that Jon Stewart? No, it wasn't, but it looks like him.

40:59Kara Swisher:And then in the back, I just a few days ago interviewed Jose Andres, who's doing World Central Kitchen. And the guy in the back looks like him with a hat. And he said he's gotten 7 ,000 texts from people because it looks like him. What an honor. And he's like, what was I doing there? I don't understand. I was in Gaza feeding people. And then I was in this picture. And it does. Go look at it. You're like, whoa. I will. What is happening? I really haven't taken that image in outside of his doctor, his medical garb. Yeah, and then there's a character from a sci-fi. The whole thing is, whoever does this, I kind of want to meet.

41:33Kara Swisher:They don't even, like, fact check. It feels like they don't even watch it or review anything they put up. I just kind of want to be in the room as they make it. Like, what are you thinking? Someday we're going to find out. It's a teenage boy. It's some really fucked up teenage boy. I know. Mostly wants to hear about your vagina. We'll be back in a minute.

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43:52Kara Swisher:Let's end talking about business of comedy and Hollywood generally. Obviously, podcasts become a huge part of comedy right now. You had one for a few years, but ended last year. Talk about, is it shaping comedy, these podcasts? Because a whole lot of comics are doing them now, like a lot. Well, it's getting people to go see comedians because they find out about them through podcasts. So I think it's helping in that way. But I think that it's made the bar a bit lower for comedy because, you know, stand-up comedy takes work. and it takes effort and rewriting and punching up and reviewing and trying your material over and over again.

44:28And that has kind of become a lost art because there's just this expectation now that you should just have fresh stuff all the time and just be able to be funny on command. And I think that it's lowered the bar in the sense that, yeah, people are just expecting, they expect less, I guess. And so they're entertained by less. But I think I hear a lot, I mean, when I'm looking on Reddit and reading about people going to see stand-up shows with their favorite podcasters, that they're often very disappointed because it's not what they expected it to be because it's not the right place for the level of professionalism for a podcast.

45:05I mean, it's, yeah, it needs to be more polished. So, you know, obviously -

45:09Kara Swisher:Why did you stop doing it? Now, we went on tour and did really well because it was the show. We just did the show. Yes, well, yours is polished. You have notes. You've done your research. You're not just, you know, there's, you have a system in place and you work hard on it. There's a difference between, you know, there's a lot of different ways to podcast. And there's, and I enjoy the ones that are just shooting the shit. There's times in the time and a place for that. But I stopped podcasting because I wasn't giving it that effort. I just was sitting down and just shooting from the hip and saying things that I didn't even really, hadn't really thought through and couldn't really back up.

45:47and I was just feeling like I was getting to a place where my words were being taken more seriously and being paid more attention to by like page six. And I was getting things poll quoted that I didn't even remember saying. And it was becoming kind of embarrassing. And it was also like, you need to have a video podcast now. So it was about doing hair and makeup every day. So you could look presentable enough for this to live online forever. And when you level up in show business, like now I need full glam for when I'm going to be on camera. I mean, I didn't get it today. Or is it, you know, like I, there's a time and a place, but like, you know, I just was feeling like this burden every day of like, I have to look a certain way.

46:27And some days I would just look tired and then that's out there forever. And then people are pulling, it just was, it was just too much pressure. I love it.

46:33Kara Swisher:Every time I do it, I love it. I love it. I did. I did love it. And there's parts of it that I miss. I miss having that connection with people who feel like they know you and, and you get to talk to them every day. Yeah. I mean, I have it too with celebrities. So I really liked providing that for people because I felt like, yeah, if you listen to my podcast and you think you'd be friends with me, you're probably right. I'm really myself on this thing. But I just felt like it was for people who were paying attention that wanted something that weren't just looking to listen to something on their drive to work and were actually trying to pay attention to what I say and glean something from it.

47:08I think I was falling short. And I really like to make... I was just... As I get older, I just want to put out things out that I'm proud of. And I wasn't proud of it. And so I'll go back to it when I can work at it.

47:20Kara Swisher:Do you feel like you have to be on them? I mean, to say, how important have podcasts become to comedy as a business? Yes. Yeah, so important. I mean, it's just a way... Yeah, it's like doing The Tonight Show was the biggest deal ever to me. Even when I did it after the boom, And like, you know, first time I was on Tonight Show 2009, the hugest deal in comedy and was so until probably five years ago. And it's still a big deal to get a late night set, but nobody sees it. Nobody really, it doesn't move ticket sales like a podcast does. So you still have to go on these podcasts. You have to weigh, and especially now that, you know, some of the most popular comedy podcasts are on the wrong side of things.

48:03you have to, you know, there's a moral dilemma there of what am I going to do? And so - Look at Polar.

48:10Kara Swisher:Polar. There's a lot. It's changing, I have to say. Yes. There's a lot more now to do that are just, you know, are getting the same level of attention that are not problematic, but - It's heavy right wing. Yeah. Scott and I are always in the top 10, but we're always surrounded by Candace Owen and Mark Levin. Yeah. That's what it is. and so Megyn Kelly's always hanging at the top like looking down at us with her angry eyes I mean the thing is I do feel like I still need to do them I am nervous about them every time I do it like I did one last week I did call her daddy and you know it was like a two hour conversation it was so much fun talking about sex openly she's such a girl's girl and it was like I just felt like we were like best friends by the end of it and I maintain that we are like I really feel friendship with her and but But I was talking like I would a best friend.

49:01And I was feeling like, oh, you know, I wasn't even thinking about censoring myself in any way, knowing that this podcast gets, you know, makes headlines. And then, you know, a week later, I wake up to just headlines about Nikki Glaser says that she likes for her boyfriend to sleep with other women. And it was like five different headlines showing up in my feed. And I don't even follow myself. I don't look for news about myself. I like avoided at all costs. and it was just really embarrassing because I was like, that was just one little thing I talked about like, oh, I'm kind of turned on by this idea of it and then it was just everyone I knew had seen it that day.

49:39I went in to like do some voiceover work and even the people on the Zoom on the voiceover were like, wow, a lot of headlines about you today and I'm like, that is so humiliating that they know this.

49:48Kara Swisher:Go to the hair lady. Go to the hair lady. Fun. Exactly. Oh, fun. No, that's the one she would know about and care about. Oh, no. And so that's the other thing that's like, I just get like nervous now because I, in these spaces, I do feel like a connection with the hosts and I do feel comfortable and I feel like, oh, no one's really going to listen to this too hard. And then I just have to pay more attention now to the stuff I say. But then, you know, it just goes away in a day and no one cares. It's like, it's fine. Exactly. I never pay attention. I've gotten, apparently I've gotten to 17 beefs with Megyn Kelly.

50:21Kara Swisher:She always talks about her show and I ignore it completely. except one time I wrote, because there was so much of it, I wrote back, I go, it's never going to happen between us, Megan. And that ended it. That ended it. It's just, please stop. It's getting worse. Sort of like the Taylor Swift song about what's her name? Charlie XCX. Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, that was a great song. I love that song. It's so fun. So petty. It's delicious. It's so much fun. But I just, I mean, did you, do you find, you probably find out about most of these headlines because you have friends texting you or... No, I don't care.

50:54Kara Swisher:I don't pay attention to them. Because I don't pay attention to it. It's just like I find out from people who write to me. I don't even pay attention to my friends text me about it. That's so good. I got to start blocking them. I have four kids. I don't got time for this. I got to get kids. That's maybe my problem. You can borrow mine if you like. I've got a lot. And they're all different ages. So a couple more questions. Hollywood's in the middle of a huge shakeup talking the bigger business. Obviously, podcasts are part of it. But tens of thousands of jobs have been lost. It's still reeling from COVID and labor strikes and production moving abroad.

51:25Kara Swisher:Marvel's just moving to England. There's a lot of fear over, obviously, Paramount's pros take over Warner Brothers. I've never been so inundated with celebrities who want to come on and talk about this Paramount deal and really big ones, which is really interesting. Do you think about it at all? Because you have, as you said, your stand-up career could go on, right? As long as you have great material. Yeah, to be honest, Cara, I like don't look at it at all. And I know I should. And I feel really embarrassed that I don't pay attention to it that much. And that when my friends get in conversations about it, I just kind of slowly back out of the room because I don't really under I feel I feel too ignorant to kind of understand that kind of talk.

52:06It just like my brain shuts off. And I don't it's like when people try to explain football to me, like I don't understand mergers and monopoly. Like I just don't. I'm just not that kind of intelligent. and I just know where I, what I should know. And I try to understand, there are times where I go, please explain it to me and I'll get it all. And then it falls out of my head right away. I mean, I do, I feel for everyone going through it. And I just worked on a movie that filmed in Los Angeles and I could just sense the gratitude of everyone on that crew and how -

52:34Kara Swisher:Because that's dropped rather considerably, yeah. Yes, these people, it was like maybe, you know, one job they get a year. And, you know, I've worked with makeup artists for years who were able to make a living and now they're thinking of moving to Las Vegas or Atlanta. I mean, everyone in that town is suffering. So I feel so much for everyone. And I will say that like, I do, that's why I really don't spend my money. I'm always worried that it's gonna drop out from underneath me at any point. And that's why I'm going on tour again, right on the heels of putting out a special. And I have to go to New York this summer and write a whole new hour in three months, which I'm going to get done and I'm excited to do.

53:17But it is like, I'm going on tour again in August, which is insane because I just got off tour. But I'm worried that people aren't going to have the money to go see people on tour. And that someday, you know, the live entertainment is going to take that same hit. So I'm trying to capitalize on it as much as possible and enjoy the luck that I've had in this business. But I also just really am very cautious and save my money. And I don't live at, you know, like I see a lot of people living. Like I don't, you know, I don't spend.

53:50Kara Swisher:No private planes? You're not getting on and off the private planes? No, I mean, also for fear of like, if you crash in a private plane, no one feels sorry for you. I think it's like, that's my biggest fear now. Whenever I am in one, if I'm a Southwest, people will be like, oh my God, what a woman of the people. What a hero, died so young. um they would make my no but you know like it's but if I die a whole genre of jet comedy that you could do oh yeah but I thought about it because I've been in some private jets and I'm like if this goes down it's like the the amount of sympathy me and my family are going to get is so is going to be so much less because of the private plane people hate people flying up private yeah and this elitist bitch she deserves it so I like I do think about that and I do feel like it's a huge waste of money and I don't mind flying I'm not famous enough that it's like really a hindrance to me to be in the airport amongst the people.

54:40It's like, I understand why people do it, but where it's like, people give Taylor Swift shit about like a flying private. It's like, she cannot be out in public. It would shut down the airport. It would, it would cause delays across. And then they'll be mad at her for that.

54:55Kara Swisher:Yeah. She can't do anything else. And so I don't fault her for that ever. Um, and so, but, but I can still do it. I can, I can be in boarding group. See. Two more questions. The other destructive force, something you've talked about the Hollywood it is AI. You said in the past, you don't mind semi-content. It's obviously AI, like when it creates a video of Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin making out. Do you think about it, about content around AI? It's some of it's, I mean, like Iran is killing it right now, making these Lego commercials about, I mean, videos about Trump, for example.

55:27Kara Swisher:They're very funny, actually. Yeah. I mean, when done right and, you know, and people behind it have a good point of view and are, you know, modifying it and working with it. And you can create some good stuff if you there's like a human behind it. But and I've used it a little bit just to like generate some starting places for jokes where I'm just like, OK, what are some angles that Nikki Glaser would take on this thing? And it'll just give me a jumpstart like, you know, like anything like if you were when I used to work with my friends. Yeah, with your friends. And so I think it's good for that, but I'm just like, it's just made me sad that it's like, it's ruined wonder a bit, you know, like when I see something, when I see like a whale approaching a boat.

56:14Kara Swisher:This is Scott said this, he can't watch animal, he's so angry about the animal. No, you can't enjoy any kind of animal footage anymore. It was already sad to watch anyway, because most news about nature is really depressing or any kind of stuff that you see. So I was always kind of like scared to watch it. But now it's just like, I just, I don't, I don't, I don't trust anything anymore. And I can't, I think that that's, that's the part of it that I'm like upset about is that it's just made, you know, it's, it's made entertainment less enjoyable because there used to be like, I can't believe they caught this moment.

56:50And then you just go through the comments. The first thing I do now when I say videos, go through the comments and see who's, who's debugged it.

56:55Kara Swisher:Debugged it. Right. And it's AI. Yeah. There's one with a tiger trying to kill a hippo, and then crocodiles eat it. I love it, but I'm absolutely certain it's AI. Oh, I wouldn't want to watch that anyway. Oh, God, I can't. It's actually strangely satisfying. I hope that's AI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, you're a vegan, too. Yeah, animal killing is not something that's really pleasant to watch. No, I can't handle any of it, no. Yeah, I would imagine. So last question. You just wrapped a movie with Kim Kardashian, who is lovely, by the way, because I know her pretty well. Yes. Lovely. So polite. So surprising.

57:31So nice. Yes.

57:32Kara Swisher:I was like, you were somehow well-raised, although it doesn't seem like the show. But you are. But you're up in Calabasas. I'm feeling her father was a critical part of her life, too. Yeah, absolutely. So you're in the process of writing and starring in another one produced by Judd Apatow. You're having a moment, and that shouldn't matter, but you're having it in your 40s, as you know, the difference between millennials and Gen Z and stuff. And you told Time Magazine, congratulations on being part of the Time 100. Thanks. You've always dreamed of having this kind of success. We never thought it would happen.

58:06Kara Swisher:Can you just go on about that and then what you think you wanted to do next with it? Because it gives you a certain power, obviously. Yeah. Well, there was just a point, I think, Amy Schumer and I were really close around the time that she kind of blew up. It was like 2013 and we're around the same age and we've kind of done the same type of comedy and people, you know, like I didn't, I always felt like she was just like a peer of mine that like I could look up to in certain ways. She's a little bit older, so there was a big sister energy, but she was just like someone that like we just were in the trenches together.

58:42And then suddenly she blew up and I remember she's like a movie star. And I was just, I was struck that I wasn't jealous. There was a moment where I was like, I am just so happy for it. And I remember I was able to understand that I wasn't envious because I just, there's just no way that I would ever do that. Like, it just seems so unreachable to become the kind of star that she was. And so I just, I think that was the moment that I was like, I don't, I'm never gonna have that. And I can just be happy for her and put it over here and support her and truly have no envy. I was so, cause I always was so worried that I'm, my whole life is just gonna be being envious of women who do better than me.

59:20I was, you know, my sister was prettier than I was and more popular. It was just like a thing that got, you know, embedded at me at a young age of like, I am just this jealous person that I really hated about myself. But for some reason, I was really, I was just so proud of myself that I was like, just able to just be so happy for her and just want her to continue to succeed and really feel that in my bones. And then I was like, I really accepted it. Around 2014, I was like, you know what? I'm a touring comic. I headline clubs. I make good money. I don't have to ask my parents for money anymore.

59:52I get to appear on shows here and there. This is like a good life. This is successful. Like, I did it. Like, I am making a living doing stand-up comedy, and that's enough. Like, I was really, like— And I think I was also past the point of, like, wanting fame and kind of realizing that that was, like, there was an emptiness to that that was never going to be satisfying enough no matter how much I got it. So I just kind of, like— I don't know. I just was— I let go, and that's what I was able to—

1:00:17Kara Swisher:Maybe being older is better. You know, I think it just, it allowed me to relax and not want it so badly. And I think the industry rewards that, you know, like I was just able to do the things that I really wanted to do and not pick and choose projects based on, is this going to be a cool look or is this going to get me to the next level? It was like, is this going to be fun? And do I care about this? And so I was able to do better work because of that, because I wasn't just constantly doing things that I felt like I should do. and I think that that is what I was ultimately rewarded for was that I you know the Tom Brady roast was like exactly the kind of thing that I was passionate about that I knew that I was better at than most people is writing these kinds of jokes and I fought to get that position on that roast because I knew it was going to be a big deal and I knew that I could kill it so it was just I think it um yeah I think it was just I I really it wasn't like a you know that quote in time that said, like, I never thought I was going to have this kind of success that I have.

1:01:15It was almost, you read it and you think, oh, she was like sad about it. I wasn't even, I was like, I really was like, okay, good. You know, like this is, I'm so happy and I'm famous enough. And then, and then it happened and I'm at this next level. And now it's shitty because it feels like you have to maintain it. And it feels like now it just can be taken away. Whereas before I was the underdog.

1:01:37Kara Swisher:It's like rich people that can't stop grabbing money. right that's it like I get it and I understand that desire that it's never going to be enough and that you and and then it's going to if you lose it it's so much more embarrassing than not ever getting it because if you don't ever get it not that many people know you didn't get it you weren't that famous but now a lot of people know I have it and now a lot of people can know that I lose it and I think that's it and it will go away at some point because it always does and you can't take it with you and I'm going to die. And it's like, it's going to go away.

1:02:09So I'm, you know, I'm just trying to prolong it for what I don't know. I think I, there is a part of me now that just wants to hoard money so that I can have a nice bunker. I mean, that really is like a thing that I think about a lot is like, I just want -

1:02:24Kara Swisher:You don't want to live in a bunker. I don't, but like, I want, I think my parents will want to, or my sister has a family, so she'll probably want to, you know, be living during the apocalypse. I'll just, you know, I'll off myself when I lock them in it. But I feel like that is like, that's now the goal. Good to have plans. Good to have plans. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I was talking to a really rich guy who has all these apocalypse plans. And he told me them in detail. Very well-known person. And he has a motorcycle that takes him to this place. Told me where the address was. And he goes, what's your apocalypse plan?

1:02:59Kara Swisher:And I said, I'm going to come kill you and take yours. you just told me the whole gameplay and then he was like wait a minute I didn't think about that oh yeah he needs like he needs to stop telling people I have a one friend who's a billionaire and I'm really in her good graces and I think I have a ticket to her bunker if I need it but oh it's about like okay my boyfriend now has to like learn how to fly a helicopter because how are we going to get to that like there's there's things I think about and I put it off and by the time it happens I'm not going to be ready I don't even have a go bag for like a special shaping up right now.

1:03:30Kara Swisher:You're a apocalypse girl. Yeah. But yeah, that's, that's what keeps me going now. And, um, and I'm just having fun now that we're having the apocalypse. Is there anything, what is your next thing besides these new projects, right? Continuing to do that. Yeah. I mean, it's, um, it's making more movies. I just finished this movie and it's going on tour again in August. And, um, and just, I'm, you know, my goal is this summer to completely keep it open and go to New York and work on my standup every single night all day long. And, um, and that's pretty much it. I have to build a whole new hour. So it's also about going out there and living life and not working so much.

1:04:04So I have stuff to write about, you know? Yeah, that's true.

1:04:06Kara Swisher:You got to do things. Well, I'll come watch you. I'll come watch you. I would love to meet in person. I bought a place in New York for bringing the kids up there. So I will come watch. I would love it anytime. And I wanted to say, I first found out about you, I was listening to the Succession podcast. Oh, that was a good podcast. It was such a good podcast. And I rarely do this, but I was just like, who is this lady? I was like, I was in my car and I have to say, I was like, I need to find out everything about her right now. Just your voice, just the way you talked. I just was so drawn to you.

1:04:37You're so incredible. And it was, it sucked me right in. And your new docuseries on CNN is so compelling. It's so good. And it's so funny. You're the perfect person to take us on that journey.

1:04:48Kara Swisher:Yeah. Where do you meet my caratars? When I create a digital version of me, a 3D version, and you'll like that. Oh my God. It's very funny. I mean, I can't even believe that you did the, where you had to put your face in the aging thing and it told you how old, like you did so much stuff that I was like, oh, I'm glad she has, she could do this because I would be. Thank you, Nikki. But they got exactly spot on. That was incredible. And you showed us a side of Brian Johnson where I was like, I was watching with my boyfriend. I go, I actually, she made me kind of like this guy. I mean, you definitely.

1:05:18Except sad.

1:05:18Kara Swisher:I roasted him and made him a human. That's my. You roasted, you did a great job with him. I think he would, I'm sure he's even really happy with that appearance. I'm not so sure. No, he's not. He should be because I was terrified of him before. And I really afterwards was like, oh, he's sweet. And there's, you know, the sadness that it's like, oh, okay. At the very end of the show, I always, at the very end of every interview, I ask people how they want to die. Like, it's a question I ask everyone and we strung them together. Hands down, he had the best answer. Now I'm wondering how I want to die.

1:05:47But But thank you, Kara. I think, I mean, I guess everyone just says in their sleep. But I also was thinking a bridge falling on me because I heard about a woman who got squished by a bridge and it just happened so fast that you don't hear it, you don't think about it, and you are like pulverized into dust immediately. And that I think, I know it sounds really horrible, but I just want it to be as quick as possible. And I would like to just, they don't even have to cremate me. They can just, you know, I'm already dust because it would just be the most...

1:06:18Kara Swisher:I had not heard that one. And I wouldn't know about it. I would just be in traffic, like checking my ways, when I'm going to get there. And the answer is I'm getting there right now. Don't know which way I'm going, but I'm on my way. But I hope no one else is injured in my bridge collapse. No one. No one. You're it. You're it. You're so far. Anyway, I really appreciate it. You're wonderful. You are so great to talk to. Thank you so much, Cara. Thank you. One more thing before we go. Want career advice from Cara Swisher? Now's your chance. We're doing a special episode all about it, and I want your questions.

1:06:50Kara Swisher:Send a video to on at Vox Media, and you might be featured. I can't wait to see what you've got. I'm really interested in people's questions, and I've got a lot of good advice, as it turns out.

1:07:03Kara Swisher:Today's show was produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Michelle Alloy, Catherine Millsop, Megan Burney, and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Madeline LaPlante Doobie and Julia Sharp Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following this show, oh, fun. If not, you crashed in a private plane. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us.

1:07:37Kara Swisher:We'll be back on Thursday with more.

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