Peek Inside the Club You Can't Join, with Jeff Klein

21:14Well, I mean, I think absolutely. I mean, to your point about celebrities, I mean, they feel it intensely because fame follows them everywhere. And honestly, almost everyone feels some version of this now. Social media has turned life into performance, and so people don't live anymore. And I think that these spaces, you know one of the things we're providing or trying to is like a space where they can live again and they don't have to be scared of a photo being taken of them i mean i i joke like you know you want to be able to bring your wife one night and then your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever the next night and nobody can talk about it nobody can take a photo i mean there's no places like that and i'm not saying it's right to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend if you have a We don't judge on this show, but go ahead.

22:04But it's also like, you know, it also pertains to like business. And I'll just say this because it was written about extensively. When Ted Sarandos and Steven Spielberg were having this big war in Hollywood, because Steven Spielberg was saying, you are not making movies because they're not on big screens, even if they're on big screen for a week. It was a very public war. and their makeup dinner, the first time they actually spoke, it was like in the Hollywood Reporter, it was in the New York Times. They went to dinner at the San Vicente, as they should, because they knew that nobody would take photos or talk about it.

22:43Unfortunately, there was a guest of a member who was a publicist who called page six and leaked it to them. And we figured this out and we kicked out the guest. But in, And of course, I'm giving an example where I didn't succeed because that's how I do. But, you know, that was only one time that's happened. There's been like 10 ,000 other examples of it. So it's also business. Like sometimes people don't want to be seen.

23:11Kara Swisher:And they want to go out. And they want to go out. So maybe, you know, they're about to sell their business to someone and they don't want people talking about everything. So public now. And transactional, as you said. And as you also noticed, it's not just a business thing, but there is the community aspect to it. And as you said, people don't go to church as much. And fraternal organizations, there used to be the Lions Club, the Elf Club, the Rotary Club. My grandfather belonged to, I think, all of those. They often built community around acts of service, but it was also social. Talk about the organizing principle of your community.

23:45Kara Swisher:People can have different reasons for going to these clubs. The organizing principle to us is really human chemistry. It's like trying to create an environment of interesting, socially additive people who value discretion and curiosity and creativity and connection. You know, the community is really organized around a shared desire for a certain kind of atmosphere that's less performative, more intimate, more thoughtful, more human. It's not organized around status or profession or any of that stuff. It's really organized around energy and behavior. And I think that's why we succeed and are desirable to so many people.

24:31Kara Swisher:So how do you deal with the status obsession with people? Like, I didn't get in here. I'm sure you get a lot of pushback. A lot. Yeah. I actually have a line that I cut and paste when people will send me an email or a text. Because what's unfortunate is knowing me doesn't necessarily help. Like, it has to be, it's a committee of people and they do, they spend a lot of time on this. So I don't, I never want to be like that, like dictator that overrules the committee's decisions. And I always say, it's really not you. It has more to do with like your age, your occupation, all these things, because we have enough of these people that are in your category.

25:15And that's really how I answer that. But we're curating that emotional tone as much as we're curating a membership.

25:22Kara Swisher:Right. But when you – and the other thing I have with clubs is sometimes I get asked to join. Some of them you've never asked me, which is great, which is fantastic. But a lot of people ask me, and I'm like, no. And same thing with rich team owners. They're like, come sit in my box. I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. And they're like, what? And I go, I don't like sports. I don't want to sit. Well, it's an owner's box. I'm like, I like it even less. Like, I don't even know what you, like, I don't mind sitting in a stand kind of thing. And so it's really hard to get me to come into a club. And one of the famous ones was like, we'd really like you to have you here.

25:54Kara Swisher:And I was like, I'd really like rather not to go. I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club. Well, we would obviously love you to be a member. No, I can't do it. I feel like members, if somebody wants to be a member, they figure out how to apply. And, you know, you have to know a member to be nominated. no I get it I just don't like clubs I don't I never I'm just not a club I never go I'm very you know a lot of them so I'm like assuming no I just I love going there and by the way it's a beautiful experience I have to say even though you put stickers on my phone me it's just I just I really just enjoy being home or going to the hardware store but and that's where my happiness is and that's where my community is I know it sounds weird but I do I actually go to one in my TV show.

26:38Kara Swisher:I go to one of my favorite hardware stores. But that's weird sounding when I say it out loud. So populism is on the rise in the world. And here in the United States, the wealth inequality is at this widest gap more than three decades. Talk to critics who say private clubs are a way for the rich to wall themselves off from the concerns, reality of everyday people. Presumably, they end up going to expensive restaurants if they don't go there, right? That's the other option for people or belong to country clubs or any number of things, you know, special vacation spots. So I'm not so sure it's that much of a, like, a ding on private clubs.

27:14Kara Swisher:But talk a little bit about this in this, you know, sort of day and age, the sort of eat the rich thing is happening all over the place and somewhat deservedly in some cases. Yeah. And I would say partially, yes, luxury clubs obviously require financial means, but I think the deeper desire they're responding to is universal. I just can't tell you enough how much people want belonging, trust, intimacy, familiarity, and human connection. Wealth just allows you to execute those things at a very high level. So, you know, there could be clubs that are not as expensive that deliver the same thing. Part of what my experience is, is an elevated experience.

27:58So it is going to cost me money and then I have to charge money in return to deliver that. But like your hardware store example, if your hardware store wanted to charge$10 a month to come there and have a beer one day a week or something like that might be a club that's super cool because it's a club of common interests. I mean, that would be like what I was describing as a niche.

28:21Kara Swisher:my son goes do you know this the the giant food here has a bar in it and my son loves the bar at the giant food I love that really why do you go there he goes I don't know I meet people I don't know and we all sit around have a beer while people are walking by with strawberries and I don't know why I like it but I do and I'm like okay because I call him like where are you goes at the giant bar that was like giant food like it was but I see the appeal like if he likes the community aspect another my other son is going to church more like and i never took him to church once and he loves it of course that is absolutely free but he loves the community i think and that's what they're especially that's exactly i was just gonna say like churches are on the i mean did you see that article i think it was in the journal my son is like that article it's exactly right it was really fascinating to me and it made total sense to me and it it really reminded me of my business because you know and they're meeting boyfriends and girlfriends or whatever at church they're not even religious.

29:14I mean, I always say, like, you know, we do all these programming events, we'll have like a ceramic painting class. And at first, I would say, like, who wants to learn how to paint ceramics? No one is, I mean, they're not really going for the ceramic painting, they're going to meet other people to meet friends to, you know, to meet new people to know. So I think, you know, just back to your thing about the wealthy, it's like historically, private clubs were about status and access. And I think today, they're more about emotional comfort and psychological self safety.

29:51Kara Swisher:We'll be back in a minute.

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32:14Kara Swisher:day.

32:37Kara Swisher:slash VisitScotland. Let's take a step back and talk about your career. As I said, you didn't come from the private club world, as you mentioned. You began as a bellman at the Franklin Hotel in New York in 1993. I actually started in the mailroom of the Washington Post, so I feel that journey. And you worked your way through all the departments, including housekeeping, room service, front desk, reception. Did you have an entrepreneurial vision guiding you through those early jobs? Honestly, so much of my life and career has been luck. I mean, even the fact that I'm in private clubs right now, I wish I could have said, I knew AI was coming, and I knew social media was coming, and I knew how important these clubs were going to be.

33:15It's just, I'm lucky. I was always very dyslexic growing up. I never thought I'd own a hotel or hotels or private clubs. And so I just got really lucky. This guy, Bernard Goldberg, who was my mentor, just taught me everything I knew. And he was a pioneer in the boutique hotel industry in the 90s. It was really just him and Ian Schrager.

33:40Kara Swisher:Was there a thing he said to you that stuck with it? Mine was Walt Mossberg in writing. And he said, you know, always parachute in with your cleats on. It stays with me every step of my career. That's so great. I'm trying to think. I don't think there was any one thing. but he really taught me how to look for value. So if you look at my career, everything I did, when I bought the Sunset Tower, you know, no one believes this. They couldn't give the Sunset Tower away. It was called the Argyle Hotel. It was a dump. I remember. They kept on lowering the price. And I bought it for like$18 million. And that's a lot of money.

34:18But when you think about it, to buy a property like that, and he said, always find value where no one else can.

34:25Kara Swisher:Speaking of which, in 2013, you purchased the San Vicente Inn in West Hollywood. And at the time, it was run down, clothing optional, men only motel that Community News site described as the sin bin. Nobody wanted to invest in you in the San Vicente. What was the pitch? It was so hard. Well, first of all, even as a gay man, it was hard for me to go there because it was also very druggy. And it was just this weird, crazy place. They were having sex out in the open. Nothing wrong with that, but it was very hard to get a buttoned-up investor or banker because I didn't own it yet. I was just in escrow, so I couldn't get investors.

35:07In fact, this is a very funny story. I went to like 52 lenders, and they all said no because they'd go there, and they'd be really kind of like, ugh. Because no one has a vision. No one can see. And so my husband said to me, you know what, I'm going to show you how we get a movie made. Invite your banker, invite his wife, and we're going to invite some movie stars to dinner, and you're going to get that loan. And he was right. It happened. So I had to kind of like – Explain who your husband is. My husband is a man named John Goldwyn, whose grandfather was Sam Goldwyn, and he ran Paramount Pictures for 13 years.

35:53He was vice chairman. He's also a producer. He produces many shows and movies. And he's a brilliant person in the industry and obviously very connected. And he knows how to get movies made.

36:05Kara Swisher:So it's not unsimilar. But how did you get people to like the sin bin, did you say, now with 100 % less naked druggery? It was really hard. I would try to, you know, there were moments in the day, like especially early in the morning when they usually weren't out. Although sometimes they would still be coming off of one of their like benders. So I would try to do the tours at like eight in the morning or nine in the morning. It was really hard. It was really hard. But even more than just like seeing the people there, the place was such, it was like a rundown motel. Well, now it's this incredibly glamorous, beautiful place that you feel like it's been there forever and will be there forever.

36:52Right, like what happens in Palm Springs.

36:53Kara Swisher:Palm Springs had all these Yankee hotels, and now they're beautiful. The gays came in and gayed them up. They're fantastic. But what was the pitch that didn't work for investors? What did? What finally did when you were bringing them in? Well, I mean, essentially what happened was I had to put together. It really was tough. I couldn't get investors. I had to really cobble investments together, like$50 ,000 here. And then that loan that I got was a construction loan that we used celebrities to get us. And then right before I opened is when I found my current investor, which is this company, Ohana.

37:33And there's a guy named Franco Famularo who works at Ohana who's very smart. and he had been speaking to me actually about the sunset tower and he said what's going on with that private club and i said oh i had to cobble together i'm about to open he said well can i see it and he came and saw and he said i'd like to take out all your investors they'd only been in it in the investment for like 18 months he said i'll give them like a 60 return which is great for an 18 month investment to make 60 return i've never you know you're lucky if you make 8 % a year or so. And I'd like to take them all out.

38:15And he did. And then he also helped me grow because, you know, Ohana was able, when I found the Jane Hotel, to help finance that. Right.

38:27Kara Swisher:So now you and your partner, this is Ohana Real Estate Investors, you're looking to sell a stake in the company to fund global expansion. So how do you think about that? Because obviously, expansion is always the thing to do. You have Jane, San Vicente bungalows you've got, and Jane is the San Vicente, is Jane and the San Vicente bungalows? Well, it's no longer the Jane, it's San Vicente West Village. Right, okay. But you have these two East and West Coast investments in these things, but you want to expand globally. Talk about how you think about that. Because doing these things, it's always a risk, obviously.

38:59It is a risk. I'm not trying to build hundreds of clubs. I think luxury brands often die when growth or go public like itself becomes a strategy or go public what makes these environments work is you know the culture and the atmosphere and trust and so it's fragile i mean i can't do like a cut and paste and just copy these and i i'm really trying to build institutions not trends so i can only do a few of these i mean you know if i did two or three more in the next seven years i'd say that's a lot and as i say it's like i don't want these to be hot i want places to feel like they've been there forever and will be there forever.

39:35Kara Swisher:Are you considering certain cities like Washington or Seattle? I don't know. I haven't considered Washington, but I think actually Washington would be interesting. Well, they have the Ned and then that stupid Trump one. I almost bought a very expensive membership there, which is, I think it's about$100 ,000. I just was like, this is an investment in irritating people. And to sit there in the dining room and wave at Scott Besant every five minutes or David at Saks, like, hey, girl, what up? What up with you? It's hilarious. You know, I was friendly with Scott Besson. He was very lefty. Let's remind Trump of that.

40:09Kara Swisher:He was quite a lefty. But what would you think? What's the ideal kind of city you're looking for when you're not in, the obvious ones are Los Angeles and New York and maybe San Francisco, right? Presumably. Yeah. You know, for me right now, I'm more focused on this transaction and finding a new partner that I haven't really been, because I just opened Santa Monica and I just opened West Village, I haven't really been uber-focused on where the next club is. I have these fantasies of doing one in Paris. I love Paris. Me and my husband, we take French lessons. We love, we're Francophiles. A lot of it also depends on the actual physical space that I see.

40:49So much of it, people think I'm this perfect corporate person, but I really have none of that in me. And so much of this is like, I'm almost like an artist. Like I have to see the place. And then I kind of am like, I think we should turn this into a club. Like I never am like, okay, I want to open in Washington, D.C. So I start like, you know, spending months in D.C. looking at spaces. It's just these things kind of like hit me.

41:16Kara Swisher:Yeah, I can't think of one space you'd find interesting here. I have to tell you. Well, yeah. I mean. I don't like the Ned. I'll be honest with you. Really? I've been there. No, it's very thirsty. It seems to be doing well. It's doing fine. I get why people go to it. Actually, you know what? It's beautiful. They're going to call and yell at me, but I don't care. It's beautiful. It's really interesting. It's just very performative. It's trying so... When I'm in your places, I feel like it's exactly the way... It's like hotels. Sometimes hotels are really performative. And I find... I know they did it for the way it looked, not because it was...

41:53Kara Swisher:Someone had a heart. It doesn't have heart. I don't know what else to say. That's a big mistake. Every location has to have its own soul. It has its own thing, right? And that's why I originally liked some of those Soho houses, because I thought they had heart. Like they had some, then they become sort of cookie cutters in a lot of ways. But, you know, I was there and I ran into a lot of people. And my wife and I were like, we got to get out of here. We'd never, you know what I mean? Like, I just couldn't imagine wanting to spend any time. But people like it because Washington is really performative.

42:21Kara Swisher:So it works just fine. I want to go to the one that Don Jr. is running. That's the one I want to get into. Anyway, every episode, we get a question from an outside expert. Here's yours. Hey, Jeff. Congratulations on all your success. This is Chip Conley, fellow hospitality entrepreneur, boutique hotelier, modern elder of Airbnb, and the founder of MEA, the Modern Elder Academy, the world's first midlife wisdom school. I have learned along the way that scale and soul sometimes are at odds with each other. You want to grow revenues, and yet you want to keep exclusivity. How are you as a social alchemist, a mixologist of people, going to scale your business in such a way that it still has the exclusivity and the beautiful soul that it's always had when you're going to be all over the world?

43:07I wish you all the best on your journey.

43:10Kara Swisher:Anyway, great question from Chip. That is a great question. I think scale and soul absolutely are at odds with each other. And most hospitality brands lose their soul because growth becomes a strategy instead of the consequence. The way you protect soul is through restraint, curation, and standards. We're very intentional about not expanding too quickly. Culture is fragile. I don't think exclusivity comes from price alone. It comes from emotional consistency. And members have to feel the same trust and intimacy, you know, and discretion and atmosphere. And so I think, you know, staying focused on that is the way you can scale systems, but you can't scale taste.

43:57And, you know, back to my Hermes, I'm obsessed with Hermes. Hermes is valuable because they protected the standards, not because they maximized distribution. And I really respect that. And so I don't want, you know, again, I just don't. I'd rather have a few truly exceptional clubs with soul than hundreds that feel efficient but emotionally empty.

44:19Kara Swisher:But does that make a problem if there'd be too many private clubs and the market becoming oversaturated? That was one thing I worried about as a media entrepreneur is everyone copied me, the stuff I did, the code, which was very – I could have done it worldwide, right? And I didn't because I just wanted it to be good the way it was. And whenever I expanded, I was always regretful some of the time. Some of the time it worked. But I was always wary of expansion, very much so. Because, you know, you can't just stamp it out and make it good. And also from a business perspective, then it got problematic because everyone was trying to hire my reporters or they were trying to copy it.

44:53Kara Swisher:And then ultimately there is a saturation problem, especially among sponsors or, in your case, investors. Well, I think, I mean, it depends. I think most cities are still very underserved when it comes to real community and gathering spaces. I mean, our friend Britt Morgan Sachs is opening in Jacksonville, Florida. And I think that's really cool. I think we're going to see a lot more of that. That said, I do think there are too many clubs being created as social scenes or real estate products instead of being created as communities. And that's a mistake that we're seeing. And I think we're going to see those places fail.

45:33Kara Swisher:Yeah. It's like the tequila brand of the week, right? Or perfume brand or whatever that everyone must have. And they're trying to create buzz. It's easy to create buzz. I mean, anybody can create buzz. But to create that emotional attachment and long-term loyalty is what's difficult. And so that, I think, is what they have to be focused on. Yeah. Absolutely. We'll be back in a minute.

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46:47Kara Swisher:Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Choice hotels get you more of what you value.

47:18Kara Swisher:Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day Don't you wish you were getting away Pack your bags and come on through Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too Comfort Inn It's calling your name Save on the stay Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim Well, I hope you like my little song Book direct at choicehilletales.com Modern motherhood has become an unwinnable game I'm Rabinard's son, and I do not believe in treating exhaustion as proof of love. A good mother is not a depleted one. An ambitious mother who wants to be someone outside of mom is no less obsessed with her kids.

48:03Kara Swisher:This month on Project Swagger, we are defining motherhood on our own terms in a special series, Motherhood the Remix. In the first episode out now, why balance is a myth and how I started trusting myself over the noise. Listen or watch now at Project Swagger.

48:47Kara Swisher:an economic model. How do you think of your competition? Because, you know, right now, there was a great story, and I agree with this, is that they knocked Airbnb out of New York, and now hotel rooms are just more expensive. It didn't make it a better scene in any way, or less, and I'm almost like, bring back the Airbnb, because, you know, it hurts, you know, I understand it was being abused, but it didn't mean hotels rose to the occasion. How do you look at the economic models of hotels versus Airbnbs versus other ways of hospitality? Well, I mean, listen, as a hospitality person, I actually appreciated that they don't allow Airbnbs in New York because they really hurt us.

49:28And the thing is, you know, Airbnb has all these things that they can do that hotels can't do. whether you're a union or a non-union hotel, you know, it's very expensive to run a hotel. And so an Airbnb can deliver something much cheaper and really be putting a lot of people out of work. I wish LA, quite frankly, would do that. But hospitality used to be much more transactional, you know, great food, beautiful design, good service. Those things still matter enormously, but today people are, the way to succeed in hospitality is to emotionally connect. And again, it's like back to this whole idea of the product having a soul.

50:09That is to me how it's different now and how that's my strategy. You know, hospitality historically has really, it's all, you know, you talk about Four Seasons or Hilton, all these products, They're all commodities. Their rooms are just commodities. And so my job is to do the opposite of that and not just deliver white boxes that you can get everywhere.

50:39Kara Swisher:Everywhere. But President Trump's tariffs have led to higher operating costs. That's another thing for hotels. Last week, a federal trade court ruled against Trump's new 10 % global tariffs, which he imposed after his previous tariff strategy was struck down by the Supreme Court. Has that affected you on the hotel with workers? Where is the real push and shove right now in the hotel business? And again, you have higher end hotels, but it's the same thing everywhere, I think, especially because employment is back to pre-pandemic levels, but the staffing shortages, high turnover, the administration's obviously heavy-handed immigration enforcement, has left a decline in international visitors and a tightening of the labor market.

51:17Kara Swisher:And so your businesses depend on maintaining high standards and flawless service. So talk about those economic wins that you have to face to retain good workers, at the same time keep costs down in order to make money. What do you think the most important things right now in the hospitality industry for you are? It's really hard. It's never been this hard. COVID really also changed my industry because people don't want to be – they don't want to actually – they want to work from home, which you can't do in hospitality. hospitality is really an emotional labor. People stay when they feel respected, empowered, and proud of the environment.

51:56And that is part of something meaningful. So I feel like we still have that. We spend a huge amount of time thinking about culture internally, not just to members, but for staff. And guests feel that immediately when the staff culture is very healthy, like ours, but it's very, very hard to do. It's very hard to find good managers. I mean, we have some of the greatest people. I mean, Gabby is a great example of this. She's great.

52:23Kara Swisher:Yeah. She's just amazing. But, you know, I had to really think outside. Everybody was like, you're crazy. Why are you hiring this former magazine editor to lead up your membership? You know, she doesn't understand hospitality. She understands it better than anybody. I mean, She's also a brilliant, brilliant woman and can adapt to anything. But, you know, it's just getting harder. And I've been forced to think outside the box with people like Gabby. Dimitri is another example of that. I mean, even though he's worked for me for 22 years, everybody was like, no one wants that old school maitre d'.

52:58I love a maitre d'.

52:59Kara Swisher:What are you talking about? That's the best thing ever. Well, now we do because we've, you know, we realize that the old world ways are so exciting and thrilling. But at the time, you know, great hospitality people like Chip Conley are artists in their own way. And they're creating atmosphere and comfort and, you know, emotional tone. Explain who Dimitri and Gabby are. So Dimitri is the maitre d' at the Tower Bar. He's this old school. He's from Macedonia. He bows. He just loves his job. He is literally the definition of hospitality. And Gabby has become as well. Gabby's the head of membership, global membership.

53:42She oversees all three clubs. So she's really with me curating who, and this committee, who we're going after. I mean, Gabby will wake up one day and say, we don't have enough people in Broadway, in the theater, you know, in New York. Let's find some. And let's find some. Let's contact some producers, directors, whatever it is, and get that community. It needs to be more well-rounded. This is like one area.

54:09Kara Swisher:You know, that's what a great magazine editor does, by the way, just so you know. Well, that's why I kind of knew she was going to be so amazing. Because really, that's what she is editing a magazine, a real-life magazine. What about travelers, when you think about, like, Like, has that been affected with the terror of people coming here? So I'm really lucky. I mean, honestly, my only—I have two hotels. I have the Sunset Tower, and then I have this little Hotel 850, which is so sweet. And they're both so unique that—and there's nobody truly competing with either of them. I mean, for example—and to me, this is a trick in business.

54:48It's like the Sunset Tower is singular. It's this Art Deco Hollywood hotel. Okay, yes, if you want old Hollywood, perhaps you could go to the Chateau or perhaps you could go to the Beverly Hills Hotel. Those are also two very different things. But if you want old Hollywood and you want it to be chic and you don't want it to be a ripoff and you don't want it to – then we're the only game in town. So I feel like we're lucky that we're so singular in that respect.

55:16Kara Swisher:So you have people – you don't think – you have just one of a kind. You're in your own lane, so it's not that – I think so. But I also would never do, like the London Hotel is for sale in LA and they keep on trying to get me to buy it. I would never buy it. It's on San Vicente in Sunset. It's a great location. But nobody can make that special. Nobody can give that place a soul. You'd have to tear it down. Yeah, I agree with you. I absolutely agree. I've stayed at every hotel in Los Angeles. I'm a hotel whore. I go from one to the X quietly. It's the thing I do spend money on. It doesn't have to be expensive.

55:49Again, spending money on experiences, see? You're not a rich person.

55:51Kara Swisher:I don't always, it depends. It's not always a fancy hotel. It's really weird. There was one in Venice that I loved that clothes that I loved. Oh, yeah, the little one? The little one. I love that place too. That was a wonderful hotel. That was really cool. I love that hotel so much. So I have one last question. You've worked in hospitality long enough to have seen lots of trends come and go. And you've said that it's easy to make something that's hot, but longevity in your business isn't easy. I can imagine it is. So what is your long-term vision for sustaining a hospitality business? Does it outlive you or is it just Jeff was here and made this and then?

56:27I mean, I hope it outlives me. That's a great question. I've never been asked that. I mean, I've seen a lot of trends come and go in hospitality. Longevity is much harder than relevance for a moment. You know, my long-term vision is not to build the hottest places again, but to build, you know, places that have weight to them. That's what I'd like to be remembered for. I want the clubs and the hotels to feel timeless rather than trendy. And that affects every single decision. You know, where we grow the design, the membership, the music, the lighting, the press exposure. How much attention we seek publicly.

57:13trendy spaces optimized for excitement and enduring spaces like us optimized for emotional attachment.

57:20Kara Swisher:Yeah. Can I ask you a final question? I'll answer first. What was your favorite? I love hotels and I have so many good memories from hotels. What was your favorite hotel? Mine was, mine remains Deachins Big Sur Inn, although there's some beautiful hotels in Big Sur. Oh, I love Deachins. Yeah. Deachins, and there's beautiful hotels nearby and they're all gorgeous, Ventana and the rest, Yes, they're gorgeous. Dietchen's Big Sur Inn, because I'm so happy when I'm there. And there's nowhere else. That's a very magical place. And a great example of a place that has a soul that they have respected and enhanced rather than ruined.

57:56Because so many of these places, Dietchen's could get bought by some asshole who's rich. That was always my worry. I know. And it happens. there was a place in the middle of nowhere in a town called Garzon that the chef Francis Melman in Uruguay that I went to that was I would say one of the most special hotels I've ever been to and he would the chef would cook over an open flame there was like each room had its own personality it was just like really it wasn't fancy there was no uh and it was in this like weird little town in the middle of nowhere um it was really cool it was just a very i i connected to that place very profoundly and and also the food was delicious and you'd look at the stars at night and it was just the really pretty pool and it was a very cool place yeah it's a moment that's what hotels it's a moment that's it's a we're creating feelings and so it's hard to do So, you know, it's like Dietzchen's is great at that because, I mean, Dietzchen's, it's like even the smell of the wood.

59:04Everything. You know, and it's just head out. It's so old.

59:06Kara Swisher:It's such a great place. Someday it won't be there. But I love the fact that someday it won't be there also. Like, it'll just go. This ephemerality of it is with the beautiful thing about it. Anyway, you're wonderful. You create beautiful spaces. I really appreciate everything you do, Jeff. I'm not going to join your clubs because I'm at the hardware store. But I'm going to come as a guest with my friends. Thank you. Like Brooke and others. And I think what you do is beautiful, actually. I know everyone goes, oh, private clubs. But I'm like, no, no. It's something else that's happening here. Everybody should have a space of quietude.

59:36Kara Swisher:I appreciate that. And I agree. And it's funny. When I started it, I was nervous about, like, is this an elitist thing? And it really is not. It's a community thing. And I love that you see that. And I'm very proud of it. Yeah. My grandfather had a place like that. It was called The Dugout. And he went there and played Pinochle every day. And it was his hotel. and he played cards with his buddies and they smoked cigars and it was a space and it was, I would always have to go get them and I always used to think, oh, wonderful place. I wouldn't go there, but it was wonderful. Anyway, that's what you do.

1:00:08Kara Swisher:That's how I feel every time I go to one of your places. Anyway, if I joined a club, it would be yours. How's that? Thank you. I really appreciate that. Anyway, Jeff, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

1:00:22Kara Swisher:Today's show was produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Michelle Alloy, Catherine Millsop, Megan Burney, and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Bradley Sylvester and Julia Sharp-Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, congratulations. You're a member of a very exclusive club. If not, you're on the wait list. Come meet me at the hardware store. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us.

1:00:59Kara Swisher:We'll be back on Monday with more.

1:01:25I sold my car in Carvana last night.

1:01:27Kara Swisher:Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong. So, what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood? I think it's laminate. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on... Pick up fees may apply.

1:02:22Kara Swisher:Fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com.