‘Stop This Mass Invasion’: Mayor Frey Blasts ICE Operation in Minneapolis

0:00Before Renee Good was shot, the chief of police and I were both privately and publicly expressing concerns that somebody was going to get shot or killed. And by the way, it's going to happen again on top of that, because this is the kind of conduct that we're seeing that inevitably will lead to people getting hurt.

0:32Hi, everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. For weeks now, Minneapolis has been ground zero for the Trump administration's sweeping and aggressive immigration crackdown. The city hit an inflection point when an ICE officer killed Renee Good, a 37-year-old U.S. citizen and mother who was protesting their presence in the city. And then on Saturday, the 24th, federal agents killed another American citizen. Alexander Preddy was a 37-year-old ICU nurse who worked at the local Veterans Affairs Hospital. Videos show him trying to help a woman who had been shoved and pepper sprayed by agents.

1:11Preddy himself gets sprayed, wrestled to the ground by multiple agents, hit repeatedly in the face, and then shot in the back when he's on his knees. That is called murder, and there is no statute of limitations for prosecuting it. According to the Trump administration, you shouldn't believe your lying eyes and the multiple videos from many angles that were taken on the scene and widely proliferated on social media. Instead, they want you to believe their lies. According to Kristi Noem, the Secretary of Homeland Security, he was a domestic terrorist. According to Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino, Prede was intent on massacre, and the agents who killed him are the victims.

1:52Prede was legally carrying a gun, which was holstered, before the agents took it from him and killed him. Some 3 ,000 ICE and Border Patrol officers have deployed to the Twin Cities. President Trump threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act to deal with the constant protests that have sprung up in response, though he's backed off that threat a bit in the past week. And the Justice Department has also issued subpoenas to a handful of local Democratic lawmakers alleging they've impeded ISIS actions in the area. My guest today is one of those officials, Jacob Fry, who's the mayor of Minneapolis. He's in his third term running the city.

2:30We spoke to him on Thursday morning before the agents killed Freddie and before Vice President J.D. Vance appeared to walk back his claims that ICE agents are protected by absolute immunity. Frey is handling this situation well, even though he's being attacked by the administration. He has only 600 police officers in Minneapolis, and he's faced with a force of 3 ,000 heavily armed and masked federal agents. This is not a fair fight. and he doesn't want to fight. He wants them to leave and that's what they should do. This is a critical moment for our country and the people of Minneapolis have shown bravery and fortitude to what is a fascist threat from their own federal government.

3:14It has to stop. They have to leave and we need to vote these bastards out. In any case, we should listen to on-the-ground reports from mayors of cities like this that are under siege. Our expert question comes from California Democratic Representative Robert Garcia. And before we get to my conversation with Mayor Fry, I'd like to read a statement released by Alex's family. We are heartbroken, but also very angry. Alex was a kind-hearted soul who cared deeply for his family and friends and also the American veterans whom he cared for as an ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA Hospital. Alex wanted to make a difference in this world.

3:55Unfortunately, he will not be with us to see his impact. I do not throw around the term hero lightly. However, his last thought and act was to protect a woman. The sickening lies told about our son by the administration are reprehensible and disgusting. Alex is clearly not holding a gun when attacked by Trump's murdering and cowardly ICE thugs. He had his phone in his right hand, and his empty left hand is raised above his head while trying to protect the woman ICE just pushed down, all while being pepper sprayed. Please get the truth out about our son. He was a good man. Thank you. Condolences to the pretty family.

4:33It's heinous and horrific what they're going through, as well as to the people of Minnesota, who we stand with.

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5:59But let's start with the subpoenas. The Department of Justice sent grand jury subpoenas to you, Governor Tim Walz, and a few other local Democrats. The DOJ says it's looking into whether you and your office conspired to impede their immigration crackdown, but the subpoenas reportedly didn't cite a specific criminal statute. Talk about what you think they're doing here besides trying to terrify you, which you don't seem terrified to me. Disappenas were purely designed to intimidate. This is retaliation against local Democratic officials, largely for political reasons. This has got nothing to do with safety.

6:34It's got nothing to do with the law. It has nothing to do with immigration. This is targeting me and my office for performing one of the basic duties that we have under our city charter, which is to speak on behalf of the residents of our city. I mean, this is one of the core functions that I do on a daily basis. To be targeting me for what is definitively protected First Amendment speech should be deeply concerning for both Democrats and Republicans throughout the country because, you know, there's other countries in the world where this kind of thing does happen, where political opponents are attacked, the equivalent of their Department of Justice will be weaponized against opponents.

7:16That shouldn't happen here in America, you know, and I never thought in a million years that this kind of thing would take place here. How are you looking at it? What happens for people who don't understand what happens when you get a subpoena like this? Well, I'm going to be obviously following the advice of our attorneys that are working hard on this case right now. I mean, one thing is very clear that whatever the allegations contained within, which are fairly minimal, the way they're going about this is all wrong. This is not how America works. There is no reason for this kind of investigation.

7:53It's not even clear what the allegations actually are. Are there any specifics about the allegations they're making besides you're noisy? I'm genuinely telling you the truth here. I can't even really tell. Look, I'm a mayor. We fill potholes. We try to keep the city safe. We put up more affordable housing whenever we can. And yeah, I care deeply about the people that I represent. I love them. And I'm going to do everything I possibly can to help them. But this idea that we are somehow, I don't even know. The problem is I don't even know exactly what the allegations are. And so that's what's so confusing about this.

8:37The White House is also piling on and accusing you and the governor of riling up a group of protesters who disrupted church services in St. Paul earlier this month. The protesters said one of the pastors is an ICE official, and the Justice Department announced those arrests today, Thursday, which was when we were speaking. Talk about those accusations, which are more specific. Do you have any sense if they're part of the investigation into you? I have no sense as to whether they're part of the investigation into me. In fact, I doubt it just based on the timing. But yes, we learned this morning that Nakema Levy Armstrong was arrested for being involved in that church protest.

9:18Look, I'll say, first of all, that you should not get arrested for something like that. I mean, we've got local politicians that are being investigated while they're refusing to investigate the ICE agent that shot Renee Good. We have local activists getting arrested while they don't seem to care at all about the unconstitutional conduct of both border control and these ICE agents. We're calling on Nakeem Levy-Armstrong to be immediately released. By the way, I disagree with her around this particular protest. I do not think you should protest like that in a sacred and private, importantly private, place.

9:58But it doesn't matter because you shouldn't be arrested for it. They are taking this to a level that is unconstitutional, and I believe that is illegal in so many different perspectives. For listeners who don't know, Nakeema Levy Armstrong is a local civil rights attorney. So what are the guardrails to stop that? Obviously, it's a lot of cosplay. It's a lot of, you know, power cosplay that's going on. But, you know, you think about what public officials can do besides make a speech if they want to do these things. You're seeing photos of gassing. You're seeing photos and video of, you know, 10 ICE agents in front of a house with huge, enormous weaponry, you know, an armada of weaponry.

10:41So what are the guardrails that exist? Because it's not like you're going to use your own police to get in their way, for example. Well, first there's the guardrails that traditionally should exist in our country. And some of those have been bulldoves. Well, shame is gone, so. Right, well, shame is a very powerful guardrail, especially in my Jewish tradition, the guilt, I guess. But there's the guardrail of the judicial system, which is critically important. The federal court system, the local court system, we need to be able to rely in part on judges to abide by the law. not have a partisan outlook, not be approaching things from an ideological or political perspective, but what does the law say?

11:31And so we have a number of both preemptive and responsive lawsuits that we're undergoing right now, including one, yes, to stop this massive operation by ICE in our city, which I'll tell you does in fact feel like an invasion. This lawsuit talks about the fact that We've only got like 600 police officers in our city. And there are 3 ,000 ICE agents and border control with potentially more on the way and another 1 ,500 militarized troops that are on standby to potentially be deployed to our city. I want your listeners to know that Minneapolis is a safe place. Crime has been down in virtually every category in virtually every neighborhood.

12:16it. I want your listeners to know that we have extensively partnered with federal agencies to drive down shootings, drive down the narcotics trade, keep people safe and with great success. And so we do work with them when it's about safety or when it's about reducing crime. This ain't that. This is about terrorizing people. This is about plucking five-year-olds off the street, using them as bait to try to get more of their families out of the door. this is heinous and does not belong in America. So we're watching the president of the United States label his opponents, including you, as domestic terrorists in real time.

12:56Besides being maximally divisive, the administration also appears to be expanding the legal definition of what domestic terrorism is to include activities that the Constitution does clearly protect and could expand their investigative powers. Talk about, in the middle of it, what worries you the most at this moment. And obviously, they've tried in other states, but they've been most successful here of continuing the abuse and it not being stopped. And what do you think it portends for the next three years? At some points, he does get tired and moves on. At other points, you push back hard enough.

13:30He tends to go away. It happened just now about Greenland or Iceland or whatever he wants to call it. Talk a little bit about that. What worries you most this moment and over the next couple of years? My first and primary responsibility is to the safety of our residents. And so for over a month before Renee Good was shot, the chief of police and I were both privately and publicly expressing concerns that somebody was going to get shot or killed, that either a civilian, a resident, a police officer or an ICE agent was going to get shot and killed. And tragically, that happened. And then it happened again.

14:09And by the way, it's going to happen again on top of that. Because this is the kind of conduct that we're seeing that inevitably will lead to people getting hurt. It's deeply concerned. But it's not just Minneapolis that should be concerned right now. I have a deep concern for the endurance of our republic when the constitutional norms and these mainstays of good governing principles are thrown in the trash can. We have had a long history of Minneapolis going back way before I even lived in the city of working together with the federal government. when the 35W Bridge collapsed. It was a Bush administration that came to Minneapolis.

15:04They weren't all that popular, but they did the right thing. The politics stopped at the water's edge. You had mayors and presidents and governors, everybody, regardless of partisan stripe, working together for the sake of keeping people safe and getting a bridge rebuilt. Tragically, we don't have that right now. Just so people are aware, on the personal level, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, who enjoys meeting with Jelaine Maxwell, went so far as to accuse you and Governor Walz of terrorism for encouraging violence against law enforcement. Never once have I encouraged violence. Never once.

15:42I would ask them very plainly, give me one instance when I have ever encouraged violence against law enforcement or anybody else. I have encouraged First Amendment speech. I have encouraged peaceful protests. And we have been very clear in Minneapolis we can't take the bait. I believe that this Trump administration is looking for any excuse to further deploy militarized force. We cannot take the bait. We're not going to counter Donald Trump's chaos with our own brand of chaos. And in fact, when people have gone beyond peaceful protests here in Minneapolis, they've been arrested. So this notion that we've encouraged violence is ridiculous.

16:25I'll tell you, we have seen a ton of violence, however, from ICE. We have seen some of the most gruesome tactics that I could imagine that are playing out on and around our streets. Well, let's talk about that. You said there are 3 ,000 ICE and Border Patrol agents on the ground in the Twin Cities. Comparison, as you said, the Minneapolis Police Department has around 600 officers. neighboring St. Paul has about the same, and they're near each other for people who don't know Minneapolis. Paint a picture on the ground of what the federal presence looks like, and that is before the possibly 1 ,500 federal troops, which seems insane, would enter the picture.

17:03Yeah, no, I think it is important to explain to people what's going on here because there are multiple truths that are taking place at the same time. The first truth, which I will reiterate, is that Minneapolis is a safe place. Crime has been dramatically down. And if the federal government wants to restore additional order and prevent chaos from happening, there's a very easy and straightforward antidote, which is to leave. Stop this mass invasion of our city and we'll be just fine. In fact, a huge percentage of the total shootings that have happened thus far this year in Minneapolis have been ICE.

17:37As of last week, I think it was something like 50 % of the shootings that took place were by ICE agents. And so we are a safe city. Allow us to be safer. Now, there are a number of different truths here. So oftentimes I'll give the example of the other morning. I woke up, walked out of my apartment with my five-year-old down to the street to the coffee shop and picked up a raspberry white chocolate scone. I mean, if there's anything that is emblematic of not a lot of bad things or chaos happening on the streets, it's a scone. And that is true. And that is a vast majority of the city at any given time.

18:21but then the latino people in the back of the house came out and were crying and they were telling me about their fears and their concerns and their families and how deeply hurt they are but also how grateful i guess proud they are that they've got a whole city that they are part of that they are residents of in most cases citizens of that is standing up for them. And so you have a city that is incredibly safe, and you also have a city that has this mass invasion of thousands of ICE agents that are creating far more chaos. And I would note masked ICE agents, masked so you can't see them. Masked and sometimes not even batched.

19:10Right. And this is really problematic, especially in Minnesota, where just a number of months ago, we had Melissa Hortman, the Speaker of the House, get assassinated by a person pretending to be a police officer without a badge. And so when you've got these ICE agents running around without a clear description of who they actually are... So you don't know who's who. You don't know who's who. It would be very easy for somebody to just put on a bulletproof-looking vest, some SWAT gear, a black outfit, and pretend that they are ICE. And they're not. We'll be back in a minute.

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23:33That's HungryRoot.com slash onwithKara, code onwithKara to get 40 % off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. That means for life. It's delicious. You'll feel better. So the Trump administration has linked their actions to this massive fraud scandal that has rocked the state government and the local Somali community. But most of the people who have been charged are U.S. citizens. Some were born here. Some are naturalized. So what do you say to people who see this fraud, hundreds of millions of dollars, and see that it's tied to a specific community and think the federal government has a role to play here?

24:08Because President Trump ran and won on promising mass deportation as one of the most popular issues. Talk a little bit about that. It's the excuse, presumably, from your perspective. Well, let's again talk in a way so that everybody's not talking by each other, because I feel like that often happens in discourse. So the fraud is real. The fraud that took place here is very real. And when you commit fraud, you get investigated, you get charged, you get prosecuted, you get arrested, and you go to jail. As an individual, you go to jail as an individual. The whole community, however, that you are part of and the whole city that you live in is not held responsible.

24:57The whole state you live in is not held responsible. That's the way things work in Minnesota. That's the way things work in the United States of America because everybody has due process and habeas corpus rights. And what we saw is people villainizing our whole Somali community. And then what I speculate took place is that you had somebody from pretty high up in the Trump administration say, all right, we got them. Go to Minneapolis and arrest and deport a whole bunch of Somalis. And nobody engaged in the proper pushback to that direction so that they get here only to realize that the Somalis that they would deport, they can't because they're American cisnes.

25:48They got here on a plane, on Delta. They're here legally. And then, of course, they're just looking for some ability to claim victory off of this massive operation that they got going. And they start diverting attentions elsewhere. And then I feel like the floor fell out from under them. So no one to really arrest. I mean, Trump, in fact, did call Somalis garbage and said he didn't want them in the country at all, even though they are here legally. Well, right. And if he wants to go after fraudsters, you know, look, this is a state issue. It is a state issue. Largely, it's not a city issue. It's a state issue.

26:29That's where the funds came from. But if you want to go after fraudsters, I think you would get pretty good reception for us working with you. I know you would. We would work to catch fraudsters. If you want to go after murderers or rapists or all of these other horrible things that he talks about, yeah, we're anti-murder and anti-rape in Minneapolis. That'll be about the simplest position, the easiest position that I take this year. But that's not what they're doing. Now, an appeals court just lifted restrictions on how ICE Asians can interact with protesters, which is probably disappointing to you.