Why Are You Like This? with Megan Rapinoe

27:28But they know that I'm coming from a place of care and love and wanting the best for everyone involved. That's such an interesting thing. I feel that so much of like, if everybody's allowed to bring their full self, it's not, it's going to be less comfortable, but it's going to be better for everyone. Certainly Bill was wanting to bring his full self. I mean, I think you have, at least on the outside from, I'm sort of like half in half out but from my view you have a real reputation of allowing players to be themselves in a really wide spectrum um I mean I think back to I feel like my real first like in entree into the Minnesota Lynx is 2016 and you know the players protesting police brutality Philando Castile has just been murdered in Minneapolis um your players are standing up you're standing with them all the way to like you know Maya Moore and her activism that you know eventually led her away from your team um I have some regrets yeah yeah you're like you know what good for you Maya love that for you um you know to the stud buds like they were too um you know really outspoken and they were like doing the stream and for such kind of like a a hard-ass coach or someone who says what they think and what they feel you really like let them do that and I'm curious about the I always feel like doing the right thing isn't 100 altruistic like there's you know at the end of the day like you're judged on your wins and losses and I'm curious how you think about that in in terms of letting your players be who they are in terms of your like coaching style and your strategy in trying to be the best coach that you can?

29:22Yeah, I think it's really simple, exactly what you said. Another recent one was, was obviously the stud buzz and we were in Dallas. And I guess they I'm not real up on this. And so it's probably for the better that I don't know a lot of this. But sometimes people send me things, you know. And so I was really unaware. This was Dallas in, I guess it would have been 2025. And we had just had our film session and we were breaking. We were going to go do our pregame meal. We're going to go out that game that night. And I get a message from Courtney and T saying they wanted to meet. And I thought, oh, that's kind of annoying.

29:59We all have our routines and like, why are we meeting now? Like, what are we doing? And so they bring me in and they sit me down and they go, we're worried. You know, we're worried. What are you worried about? Well, we're worried because I might have put a battery on Dijanae Carrington's back, who was playing for Dallas at this time, which means that maybe she said something on the stream that might have gotten her motivated, a little extra motivated that night. Apparently, she was maybe disparaging the lack of success that Dallas was having at that time. And she's like, I'm worried you're going to be upset with us.

30:31I'm worried you're not going to be okay with this. And so I said, well, tell me exactly what happened here, you know. and Courtney, I like, you know, we have, we have some good banter and there's a fine line. And I, I told her 10 years ago, maybe I wouldn't be able to be in the space that I am. So we always said the timing of us being together has really been important. I don't know that Courtney could handle me 10 years ago and me them, right? Because it really has stretched my boundaries and it's fun, right? It's really fun to kind of do that, but all of it while the team is successful. That's why I told them as long as the main thing is the main thing.

31:09And that's been stretched, you know, and I'm a big believer in you get what you accept. And so I wanted them to know how important it is that they are mindful of their teammates and how they feel. And it may be they're very comfortable in this very loud space, this very, you know, revealing, et cetera. But not everybody is. And so always considering your teammates and your organization, you know, make sure that, you know, that, you know, you're representing yourself, your family, your organization, all the things. So I, you know, I do that spiel. And then they assured me that, you know, it was all about winning and doing that.

31:45And so, you know, you mentioned the, you know, the activism and, you know, same thing, you know, when we went through, you know, in 2016, I don't know if you have time for this, if you're interested in this, in this part of this, but you are? Okay. Short answer, yes. And, you know, it was a really difficult time. You know, 2016 wasn't new in terms of what was happening with police officer-involved shootings or the racial profiling, etc. Simone Augustus had experience being racially profiled a couple of years before. I had some conversations with players and coaches, and we just talked about their experiences going shopping, going through a store and being followed, and just different things that sort of accumulated over time.

32:32and this particular one was hard. Simone Augustus in Baton Rouge, Alton Sterling had been murdered at the hands of the police and I remember thinking how difficult that was for Simone. Simone had frequented that store that had occurred in front of and so that was on our minds, having those conversations and talking about their feelings and then just a couple of days later, we were in Connecticut at the Mohegat Sun getting ready for a game with the Connecticut Sun. And we woke up to the news of Philando Castile on his awful murder in the hands of police in St. Paul, Minnesota. So it was really hitting close to home for us.

33:14And, you know, I learned a long time ago that when the unaffected are affected, that's when change can happen. I'm the unaffected. I'm white. I'm with privilege. and I was affected. And so I remember waking up and not really giving a shit about the game that night. I thought, how can I give a shit? How can I go into shoot around and demand this focus, this preparation? And we went and before shoot around, we gathered the captains, Lindsay, Simone, Maya, and Rebecca. And I told them how I was feeling. I said, I can't imagine how you all are feeling. And so we gave them the space to talk. And I said, let's do something.

34:00Let's use our voice for good. Let's use our voice for change. What do you guys want to do? And they thoughtfully, I said, I'll give them the space. And they thoughtfully came up with the idea of wearing T-shirts that represented some names that were just recently involved in the police officer involved shootings. You know, the phrase Black Lives Matter. in 2016 is very different than the phrase in 2026. And in between, it was a Thursday night, we had a game Thursday night, and then Saturday, we were going to be playing Dallas at home. And Friday, my job was to get on the phone and alert those key stakeholders to let them know that our players had made a decision.

34:44They were creating these t-shirts and they wanted to be thoughtful and change starts with us was what was on the front obviously on the back the names of those that were involved and by Friday evening there was a ambush of police officers in Dallas and so they quickly said we need to have that Dallas Police Department shield on that shirt and representing trying to represent everyone that we have to come together for some solutions by Saturday night there was a planned press conference by Saturday night I was already on the phone with the president of of the league at that time and my phone calls were calling to say this is what we're doing this wasn't asking for their permission their forgiveness or anything like that this was important that they understand that their support was so important at this time the president of the league at that time there was there were two hats that she was wearing She was wearing the hat of a commissioner, and she was wearing the hat of a black woman.

35:47And so I understood, and I told her I understood, but I told her I was going to take it out of her hands completely. And we're doing this. And by that night, we had a press conference as our four powerful captains stood in front. I was visited an hour before the game with the director of security at the Target Center, and I was told that the police officers walked out. and we did not have a secure facility. And they walked out because we had Black Lives Matter on our T-shirt. And I said, they're making the very point of what we're talking about. They're making the very point of what we're saying, that enact change, that we all have to be a part of this solution.

36:28And it was a lot to go through. I told them that it takes courage to stand in this because there's a lot that's going to come from this that's not going to be favorable. And I said, oh, by the way, and you have to win tonight. And you have to win tonight. Keep the main thing the main thing. When you don't win, keeping the main thing, because when you don't win, then people say, see if you're stuck to basketball and focus on the right things. So we wanted to make sure we could silence. And we won by 30 that night, as heavy as things were. We won by 30 that night. Thanks for letting me tell that story.

37:05Being on the right side of things is good business. We always say that. That's exactly right. I want to talk a little bit about your personal style of activism. You took this opportunity. You take every opportunity, whether it's in media, at a press conference. You have an unprecedented slogan shirt collection. It's well documented. It will be in a museum in Minneapolis at some point after your retirement. I can't even imagine how big your closet is. Just for the shirts, obviously. It just would be perfectly reasonable for you and most people do to just like wear a suit. Why don't you? Well, this was post-COVID.

37:58You know, the meta part of that. And so, you know, post-COVID, who wanted to go back to wearing suits? I look at some of the pictures and how silly I looked, wearing suits and heels. And, you know, and I thought, what a time that was. And so, you know, it was actually that decision of post-COVID of what were we going to do? What were we going to, we weren't wearing those things anymore. And so how could I rock my new style? And so I just wanted to, I want people to be seen, feel seen, heard. and there's just so many things that we could really champion for women and other marginalized groups and I just started doing that and I just heard from so many people what it meant to them and so we've continued that.

38:46No it really is I mean it's kind of like your signature now and it seems like such a small thing but it's really not. It's taking the opportunity every time to say like week i'm gonna wear this orange shirt because you know we care about gun violence or i'm gonna wear a shirt about abortion rights or black lives matter or whatever it is or you're wearing your players like you're supporting your players do you do you feel like i mean minneapolis has such a long history of protest i mean righteous protest um renee good alex preddy victims of ice this year. It's just like, it feels like it's always the first place that it really pops off.

39:28Do you feel like being in Minnesota so long, like, do you owe Minnesota something? Have you been shaped by it? Like, tell me about that relationship with the city in particular. Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, George Floyd, which was, you know, worldwide, you know, influence. I think that we've just been so good for each other. the Twin Cities communities in Minnesota. They've let me be me. Hopefully I've let them be them. And together we've been really, really good. And I feel, you know, you mentioned the ICE protest. And I feel so proud to be a part of the community. One of the decisions I made when I was hired to be the Minnesota Lynx head coach was I wanted to live in Minnesota.

40:13That was at a time when coaches were living somewhere else for six months. and then coming into market, you know, or flying in occasionally. And it was a really conscious decision that we wanted to be a part of the community. Best decision that I made and obviously now raising, you know, a beautiful child into, you know, the community and what he's learned and how he's been impacted. So incredibly proud of how we show up for each other. And it was on full display worldwide in what Minnesota did to support. and so I get energized and I feel empowered by living in the community. No, it's a really special.

40:54I mean, Prince performing at one of your guys' after parties after you won the championship is just incredible. Fucking iconic. Yeah, yeah, incredible. Iconic. I want to transition a little bit to your upbringing. You're from Jazzy. Yeah. Is that a decent accent in Jersey? South Jersey, Jersey. Yeah, Jersey. It's South Jersey. I mean, first and foremost, do you hate pumping your own gas? Yeah, you know, that's actually, did you guys know what she's talking about? Yeah. I feel like I half know what I'm talking about. Shout out to my producer, Courtney. She's like, you have to ask this question.

41:28It's really funny. It's annoying when you go somewhere, right? You know, when you just roll up and you put your window down and hand the card, right, in Jersey. Man, when you come to Minnesota in the winter, and I'm like, God, I wish I was in Jersey right now. when I'm pumping the gas it's like probably the only time that I kind of have that moment of like I wonder how we could get this you know

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43:23Kara Swisher:Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on youtube.com slash yourrichbff.

43:37um i always say that um little megan had lots of wisdom she was wild but she had lots of wisdom i want to talk about little cheryl for a bit what do you remember of like how you saw the world at that time like what are you saying your mom was always asking this question of you um you were born in Nebraska, but raised in New Jersey, not far from Philly. LeBron's going to Philly if people are interested in that. I don't know. Oh, he was supposed to be a Timberwolf. Yeah, tough, tough. What do you remember about that little girl and how you saw the world way back then? I just remember loving sports.

44:15I started at a young age. Softball was my first love. I was actually, you know, pretty, pretty decent in that sport. And I remember playing with the boys. so it was interesting that you know girls can play boys sports at that time because we didn't have you know we didn't have the opportunity to have our own teams and so I didn't think anything of it I just wanted to play I had two brothers one older one younger we were always doing something playing 500 in the backyard you know baseball emulating Chuck Foreman you know it was kind of wild that I end up you know being in Minnesota when the Vikings were you know a team that I really loved.

44:55Mostly it was the helmet, the purple and that little yellow thing. But then I became to love, you know, some of the players. And I just always wanted to, you know, be in sports and play. I don't remember, you know, obviously the things that you learn when you're older, how the world really works. I don't remember being aware. I remember my dad. I don't know if it was intentional. I'm still, you know, trying to figure that out, whether he was being intentional to empower his daughter or if this was just him being him, but he treated me the same as my brothers. I was right there with him when he was working on home improvement projects.

45:33He was very much a DIY guy. We didn't have a lot of money, so we did everything. I was right there with him, and I don't remember much. I remember, you know, a little bit further in life, you know, when you start to you know like learn about who you are and your sexuality and things like that then I realized that I knew when I was younger younger but that really wasn't necessarily what you did right so there's just so much and and it was high school you know you went through kind of learning who you are and kind of going I don't really know what this means I don't really care. I'm just me. I still to this day haven't come out anywhere.

46:15But it's isn't it obvious? I always was like, it is. Yeah. I mean, it's obvious, right? Well, you know, my dad actually asked me one time I was 16. And I had gotten maybe a note from a friend that maybe we feeling a little extra, whatever. It was a very long note, and I must have left it out. And dad found it. and it was a come back to the bedroom kind of conversation. And, you know, and he asked me, it was just him, you know, my mom wasn't there. And they said, my dad said, Cheryl, are you a lesbian? And I remember the word at that time. I was like, God, no, not a lesbian. I was more a dyke than I was a lesbian, right, at that age.

47:04I was. lesbian dad grow up I was I'm a dyke but I was going through you know I was in high school and and I tell my I tell my son this because you know this upsets him but I tell him it's okay um we were I was changing classes uh I was in between like it wasn't a change of class it was just a couple people in the hallway and and I remember walking down the hall and from a distance I hear someone yell dyke down the hall and it really hurt my feelings you know and I thought like well my gosh like what's like what's like why are we doing this years later I found out right it was a teammate and you know what I'm about to say they're a dyke yeah right they were they were the one um and so that's my it was like my journey and uh I always was able to you know sort of live my like my truth and even maybe when it wasn't supported in my in my upbringing.

48:04It wasn't, you know, like, hey, we love you no matter what. It wasn't necessarily that. I just, it was just, that's who she is. Like, but don't tell anybody, don't tell anybody else, you know, don't, let's not tell the family, you know, that sort of thing. But I've always been, fortunately, what I now know, unapologetically, myself, and I don't know where that came from, but I'm very thankful that's who I've been. Did you have a, like, a come to Jesus moment in coaching where I mean I think it's like no secret in the WNBA they really tried to push this like femme kind of like feminine straight vibe I think they tried to push it on players and coaches like when did you become comfortable we were just like I'm the motherfucker who throws the jacket on the floor and is like not ladylike you know it's so coded but you really are one of the the most prominent in like first go, maybe it was Bill Lambert, you know, he's more like a lesbian than we think.

49:06I don't know. But that moment where you're just like, you know what? Like I'm going to just, I'm just going to be me in this. Well, I, and I've said this recently, as I've reflected more on my career in the WNBA I was coming out of college coaching and college coaching in the nineties, you know, was absolutely brutal for those of us that knew who we were. you couldn't really be out which was just all really silly it's still silly anybody that is it's just it's unfortunate but that's what it was at that time societal norms that's that's what we were dealing with at that time and then there was all the code of you know like use against you and recruiting you know family atmosphere was the thing in the 90s and then I and Donovan giving me the opportunity to coach in the WNBA in 2001.

50:00I don't know if you guys heard the story, but she offered me$5 ,000 to be an assistant coach. And I was absolutely... Like total? In total. That was my salary. She's like, sure, I don't have much. My full-time position is filled, and this is what I have. And it was$5 ,000. And my family, I had two degrees, and I have an older brother who was, you know, very logical, you know, for him is like, everything is planned. And, and he was kind of like, you know, you do have two degrees, you know, and, and, but I was like, I really wanted it. I never thought twice about it and did it. And the WNBA has been so home for me.

50:42And that ability, when I got to the WNBA, what was most striking to me is that you could be yourself. I could be myself because I wasn't a player and I wasn't forward-facing. And the time that Megan is speaking to is when we were, you know, opportunities for commercials and promoting the league and go back and look at those photos of Sue and Diana and they look tough. Maybe Diana more like in drag. But, you know, it was like, it's not who they are, right? And you can kind of see it. It's like, what are we doing? You know, and they were still talking about changing the uniforms, right? So that they fit better, right?

51:25All this code, you know, stuff that we were dealing with. It's so exciting that the league, you know, now we have stud buds. I mean, come on, like now we have stud buds. And everyone loves it. And everyone loves it. And that's what I was gonna say it was really cool societal norms have changed right Megan you know like you've been such a big part of of pushing you know that forward and uh being ourselves as important and your bravery um and your time as an athlete uh and being able to show that you can you can you can have both and that you um that you are valuable um you know and and it's uh I think that that when that floodgate opened and now we have a league that everyone is so authentically themselves and how beautiful it is whether you are femme girl go ahead right right whether you're you know and so it's such an incredible time and so to see it go from where it was in 2001 to where it is in 2026 makes me really really proud yeah yeah yeah you've seen you've seen the span And was there ever a moment where you're just like, what am I doing?

52:34This is like, I feel like for the early builders of leagues, whether it's players or coaches, like I feel like there always just comes that moment where you're like, yeah, I've got two degrees and I'm making five dollars. This is this is tough. Like, did you ever doubt that moment or like you just knew I'm in the W and this is where I'm supposed to be? Well, not until 2003. So 2001, I was in Charlotte. And then 2002, we had a team that picked up in the middle of the night and left. The Charlotte Hornets left, right, and left the WNBA team behind. And so we lost the team. and then so it was after 2002 so 2003 I go to Cleveland the Cleveland Rockers with Dan Hughes at the end of that season so LeBron James was coming in to the NBA and Gordon Gund was the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Rockers at that time and he wanted to sell the team and so therefore that meant and I still don't understand it meant getting the books in order and so that That meant getting rid of the WNBA team first, and then they could then sell the, you know, sell the NBA franchise.

53:51And so in 2003, when that happened, that was the second team, you know, sort of in short order. And I remember kind of going, all right, this is kind of rough. And every year it was, is the league going to be here? Not just the team that I'm working for, but is the league going to be here? and when I was in Charlotte not only you know was it sort of you know difficult in terms of support from the NBA franchise but it went so far as you couldn't be in the facility the practice facility at the same time as the NBA team so just marginalized to the nth degree and it just you know felt kind of you know it was demoralizing at times and and it could be hard to believe in But in 2003, when we lost to Cleveland Rockers, I remember having a conversation with my older brother, kind of going, okay, here we are again.

54:41I'll be collecting unemployment for a little while. And that's what we did. You know, in the WNBA, you lost a team, collect unemployment for a little while, get your next job. You don't know what's next. And I remember kind of feeling like I didn't want to keep calling, you know, sort of with the same concerns. It was like I wanted to be the last call. it's kind of like when you know you guys are hearing out one of your good friends who's in a relationship that keep they keep calling you and telling you the things and you're like well yeah maybe maybe you should do something different or you know it was kind of like that I didn't want to be the one that kept calling my brother saying geez here I am again uh and so I remember kind of going this is a crossroads and I had it's it's it's still very um you know it for me and I feel it that I love the WNBA and I thought if it's going down I'm going down with it uh and I'm so glad that I had that that moment um and I had my brother going Jesus Christ you're you know can you go coach college again or something you know and uh and so um and my dad for many years you know wondered aloud when I was going to get a real job you know because it was like this summer I'd be away for six months come home for six months and my relationships that would be strained by it he's like what are you doing you know uh and uh you know he passed uh in 2008 so he never really kind of got to see this real job worked out uh you know you know pretty good for us oh well he would be incredibly proud and it is uh an incredible time for the W and certainly different from uh when you first started you've had some all-time quotes over the course of your career.

56:23Like truly all timers. I'm going to read you some of these quotes, just in a little rapid fire section. And you're just going to tell me if you would change anything

56:35or not, which I'm guessing I'm going to get some more knots. Okay. We should have done it for the gays. I would absolutely not change a thing. What was funny? Well, go ahead. Yeah. What was funny was that was my attempt at I don't handle losses very well uh and you know we lost and I I have been I've been really really focused on trying to be more graceful after losses and how's that going really good I did that that was my one-liner that was my attempt at levity bringing levity to the situation uh and I really didn't think much about it when I said it because when you're in media sessions I'm with media people that I see all the time I still haven't grasped the viral nature of maybe that something like that could you know could happen so um yeah I don't have any regrets and then like I think it was two days later you said we got our lick back for the gays yeah so you did bring it back I did I did um conflating a couple of things there I guess but moving on passing mike tebow for all-time wins in the wmba uh sorry mike we've had a lot of great battles wait uh well same thing it was very genuine very genuine uh you're like we have and i won most of them yeah no i mean he was he's he was such a a big part of my career in our relationship through the years and learned a lot from mike and he was such a supporter of mine and And so I don't know what else do you say.

58:13I mean, like he was happy for me and I said, I'll be happy for the next person. I love that. I do always appreciate your willingness and ability really to mostly keep up with the times. Quote, I ate all the way down.

58:30All timer. Oh, Lord. You're with it. You're what the kids call with it. I was with it. Yeah. I mean, I've had, you know, whether it's Oliver didn't teach me that all the way down. He gets embarrassed. Sometimes it's like, Mom, oh, God, Mom. But he learned about the clock it thing with Oliver, you know, clock it, clock that tea. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So. Yeah. So he's taught me a lot, which I really appreciate. It helps keep me current. He's being raised by the W also. So. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. He'll be a good man. Yes, he is. Okay. I'm going to try out a new segment game thing. We're going to see how it goes.

59:07It's called Mommy, Daddy, Baby. Forgive me, but we're just going to be sticking strictly to heteronormativity for the sake of the game. You guys will get it. What percentage of the below makes up Cheryl? And I'm going to give the definitions of each. Mommy is like emotional caretaker, mental load carrier, nurturer. She's doing it all. Daddy, protector, enforcer, self-insured. carrying heavy things. Like, what's he actually doing, though? You know, like, sometimes you're like, what's going on? And then baby, baby's just carefree, pampered, not lifting a finger, having an absolute ball. I'm 40 % daddy, 40 % baby, sometimes 90, and 20 % mommy.

59:59So, you know, I'm like, wow really really baby daddy is is where i'm at to give reference what was mommy again mommy is emotional caretaker mental load carrier nurture like she's she's doing it all she's got the ticker in her head my wife is here so i'm kind of looking what's the answer uh I think baby like zero um yeah well no Carly's saying no but it's not the right answer maybe 10 a little bit baby maybe 30 60 90 or 30 60 10 30 60 10 30 30 baby 60 daddy 30 mommy 30 mommy 60 no Carly that's wrong oh god this is so hard this is so hard who am I

1:00:51it is a funny you're definitely some daddy i am some daddy daddy's gotta be 60 yeah that's what i was thinking 60 yeah that's why i went with the 30 30 mommy's 10 baby yeah okay nice you gotta get that baby up yeah yeah everybody's gotta get the baby up i feel like the baby's the best part of it. I'm like, well, I'm just here. Yeah. Okay. One final question. Who should I ask? Why are you like this to next? Oh, wow. Why are you like this next? Well, I need some time on that one. Jeez. Okay. Anybody want to help phone a friend? Yeah. Maybe Courtney. Who? Courtney might be a good one. that's she's actually really Olivia might be a good one yeah yeah those those are good ones you know in my in my orbit um Courtney's really an interesting one yeah I would love to know I would love to know why she's like this hey when and when if you if you choose to to go that route back here you need to have the picture of her uh in high school actually even her her when she was drafted.

1:02:02It's going to be very confusing. Very confusing. She did not know who she was at a very young age. We've all been there and they are tough pullback photos indeed. Cheryl, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you, Megan. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, everyone, for being here. Don't forget to listen to Why Are You Like This. Thank you, everybody, for coming. Appreciate it. That's it for this episode, everybody. Our show is produced by Nishat Kerwa, Art Chung, Courtney Stith, Christine Williams, Brandon McFarlane, Mackenzie Fitzpatrick, and Jessica Dolan. Why Are You Like This is produced in partnership with Vox Media.

1:02:46Kara Swisher:Thanks for listening to this special episode of Why Are You Like This with Megan Rapinoe. We'll be back with a new episode of On With Kara Swisher on Monday.

1:02:58Thank you.