Kyle MacLachlan

25:59You know, like you seem to, like I think a lot of people look at a Blue Velvet script and be like, what? And, you know, in the book you're very matter-of-fact, oh, it's a story about this and this and this. Yeah, yeah. You just seem to like get it. I got it. It was very weird because it was the second film script I read after Dune. That was the first two. But I got the journey. I got the young, because he's a young kid. He's home from college. And I said, I know that experience, you know. It happened a few years ago. and this attraction to this dark femme fatale. And at the same time, the appeal of the light, Sandy, you know, the virginal queen.

26:40I said, oh, yeah, I understand that. I understand where that would work. And then the absolute terror of falling into the pit with Frank Booth, you know, with Dennis Hopper played so beautifully and just going. and you've gone too far. You know, I just clocked it and I said, I get it. And I said, okay. And then I said, no. Yeah, well, you showed it to your mother, which is still, it's a story you've told many times before and every time I'm just like, why did he show the blue velvet to his mother? I don't understand. Is it like the horror movie when he said, don't go into that room? What? No, don't do that.

27:18Don't do that. Don't go in the bass player? Yeah. Oh, damn. Yeah, I was compelled. I don't know what to say. I was compelled. No, I wanted her to be. She was a big part of me being an actor, honestly, which I was always sort of growing up. I thought, oh, no, I'm the one who discovered this, and I'm the one. She encouraged me, of course. Forced would be another good word. But she encouraged me in the very beginning, and then I sort of picked it up and took it from there. But she was always, you know, try this. What about this? You might want to check this school out over here. You know, that was always her way.

27:52yeah and that's why she had to read the blue velvet script yeah so she had to she did not like the blue velvet script i'll tell you well she didn't tell me that that was which is another part of my mom she was very she would didn't want to but you could tell what yeah and then her you know her husband at the time said yeah i don't know blue velvet is like critically pretty well received but uh it's not a huge hit or anything and it's not until 1990 you do the twin peaks TV show, the pilot of which was watched by, I believe, 35 million people. That was a huge number. Even at the time, it was big.

28:29I mean, what? But I'm like, what's that? Again, I'm just sort of like, okay. I'm curious. What was it? There was all sorts of these numbers and rankings and percentages and things like that with the Nielsen stuff, you know what I mean? But surely when you do something that 35 million people watched, there must be an immediate... you're like, oh, wow, it's amazing. You must feel it somehow. How did I do it? It was like you're kind of, but it's happening over there. It's weird. It's like you're working on stage, you have an audience, bam. You're getting an immediate reaction. You do film and television, you do it, and you've done it.

29:09Then it comes out, you're like, oh, great, great. Okay, what does that mean? It's like I don't feel any different. I'm going to work tomorrow, driving to the set. But the energy in your life must change in some way. There was more tension. Yeah, well, hosting Saturday Night Live was pretty good. There were indicators, let's say. You know, you shoot for a magazine or do this kind of thing. A little magazine called GQ put you on cover. A little magazine. Before my time. I had nothing to do with that. You weren't even born yet. I think I was born. I think I was born. Maybe not. Who knows? Anyway, I didn't do it.

29:43I didn't do it. But yeah, I mean, that was a thing that happened. Yeah. There were those indicators, right? Cover of GQ, that's a big deal. SNL, that was a really big deal. That was a big deal because I had grown up with SNL. So I was like, okay. And that, I think, more than anything. The magazines were like fine. It's like, okay. But I got to work. We're not fishing for compliments. No, when I got to work. Fine is all worth shooting for. GQ was fine. No, that was a big deal. It was a big deal. But later you sort of lament not doing more with the opportunity, basically. right if i yeah there was a there was a like there was a time when i sort of that was sort of coming and i it was weird because i kind of uh for some reason maybe i was on maybe i was uncomfortable maybe i didn't trust it maybe i maybe i didn't feel i deserve i don't know what it was but i sort of didn't i didn't uh dig in you know and like you know take advantage of that moment well i mean it makes me think of the conversation we're having so earlier about the kind of you chasing different versions of a leading man and um and kind of like not finding the thing that clicks yeah you know yeah um and then like later like you have you talk about this in the book success on these sort of ensemble shows where you're like in sex in the city yeah desperate housewives and now you're on fallout yeah i'm curious for your analysis situation Because one version of it would be, and you and I don't know each other, and this is kind of a rude thing to say directly, but it's like one version of it would be like, there's something about you that's not working as a leading man.

31:20Right. That could be one conclusion a person could draw. Right, right. I don't know if that's the conclusion that you draw. I think it's part of it. I think it's part of what, or that I don't really deserve that. I mean, we can get deep with that, maybe. or that I'm simply, I'm better in an ensemble as a collaborator. I don't want to be the person out front. Even Twin Peaks, even though Cooper was out front, I mean, that's an ensemble show, as are all the other ones that you mentioned. And yeah, it's kind of the same thing I had with the McDreamy sort of thing. I think there's a part of me that feels like, I don't really you know it's not really me to be out front and take the lead like that reading it I couldn't make up my mind there was times where I thought that and there were times where I simply thought this is a guy who can act but who for whatever reason can't quite play the Hollywood game yeah well I don't know if I I don't know if I'm that aware to play or not play or decided not to play the Hollywood game I think I chose I chose to not engage because

32:34you know something about just um not being comfortable in that world not wanting to sort of dance in that world somehow i kind of wanted to be outside of it a little bit yeah and it seems like at some point you fully realize that but there's this period of your career that's like the twin peaks movie and kind of like those years afterwards where it seems like you're kind of like chasing this thing that maybe actually in your heart you don't really want but you don't know what else to do. But maybe deep down I do. Or maybe you do, yeah. You know, I know, but I'm just not willing to, you know, step up.

33:10So that could be part of it too. Because I love what I do. I mean, the process of creating a character, of going in there and all the layers and the nuance and all that stuff is really fun for me to do. And I've, you know, that's what kind of what I've been doing these past decade, I guess. Now working on Fallout, it's great going to work with and carrying in, being comfortable carrying in a sense of joy. I still have a great deal of joy for the process, you know. Even if it's an intense scene, you're bringing in, we're making stuff here. It's just creative. Let's just throw stuff against the wall, you know, and try different things.

33:44But at the same time, but I think in some ways, I'm kind of like, you know, I'm kind of, am I ready? Maybe I'm getting closer to the idea of like, I could carry a show now, I think. Yeah. I'm a very late bloomer. To be fair, you have carried shows before. It would not be the first time.

34:12From Vanity Fair, I'm Marc Aducci, and I want to tell you about our new show, Fair Game. On every episode of Fair Game, I'll sit down with a leading character in our culture. from the worlds of Hollywood, politics, style, Silicon Valley, and beyond. Fair Game is a deep dive into some of the personalities that shape our world and the stories that you need to hear. Think everyone and everything that you'd read about in the pages of Vanity Fair. So join me, Mark Aducci, on YouTube, VanityFair.com, and wherever you listen to podcasts. It's all Fair Game.

35:10Transcription by CastingWords and Vogue editors who will share their real-time thoughts on the collections everyone is talking about. So tune into the run-through from September 28th through October 2nd for your exclusive look into Paris Fashion Week. You won't want to miss it.

35:28Are you ready to push your baking skills? This month at Bon Appetit Bake Club, we are making glazed apple pie fritters. I'm Shilpoz Kokovic. And I'm Jessie Sepchak. And we're senior test kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of BA's Bake Club podcast. Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers. Every month, we publish a recipe on bonappetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know. Then you'll go bake and send us any questions you have. And we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And if you want to master deep frying, this is your chance.

36:02Head to ba.com or our sub stack and come and bake along with us. Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake. Find BA Bake Club or wherever you get your podcasts Happy baking

36:21You do the Twin Peaks movie kind of you're gentle about it in the book but you and David Lynch seem to fall out of it We had a little bit of a I don't know what tiff is the word but I think it was and a lot of it was around Twin Peaks and what happened there and the potential that was there and the potential that we didn't, we kind of saw happening, but no one really knew how to channel it further and take it further. And felt a little stranded, honestly, out there, kind of, you know, waving in the breeze. And so, yeah, that kind of resentment came up. At the same time, you know, take David's side and say, these are the things that were going on in his life, and this was you know babysitting a show was not something he was actually interested in doing you know and then abc made it incredibly difficult for him to do that his way which is the beauty of being able to return so many years later um with showtime and be able to like oh now he can he can make it the way he wants to make it you know you tell this incredible story i think it's the 2019 governor's awards where david lynch receives an nra oscar you and laurie and present it to him.

37:35And then in the parking lot outside, you apologized to both of them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, was it that bad? Not really. It was just something that I had been carrying for a while. And everything had been, we'd healed and everything was fine with Laura and with David, you know. But I felt like, you know, I had a glass of wine, so, you know, you're feeling a little more loose, right? And you're like, okay. And you said, I want to make it, put it out in the world, right? Say it. I want to say it. I want to, what's the word? You know, let it be known, that, you know, blah, blah, blah type thing. And I just said, you know, this happened and to speak the truth for me, you know.

38:24And it wasn't a big deal. It was just, you know, a little bit, but it was emotional. and I wanted them to hear that I understood what had happened and that my behavior was not great. And I understood why. And I was sort of saying, we've all gone past it, forgive us, but just I recognize this. I'm just sort of saying I recognize this. And to promote kind of maybe something for me more than, because they'd forgive me and it was all fine. But in myself, maybe I hadn't quite done that. Do you feel like it changed things in the conversation? It altered me, yeah, for sure. It was just saying it out loud like that, speaking something that I was embarrassed about that I was not proud of.

39:09Yeah. He, David Lynch, passed, getting up last year. Yeah. How did you find out? So, you know, in the gym. I was working out in my little home gym. and my wife came in and she said, I've got terrible news. I said, you know, your mind goes all over the place. She said, David Lynch just passed. I was like, and I was stunned. You know, you're like, that's not possible, you know. And it, you know, it kind of comes, it takes a minute, you know, to sort of get your head around that, not that you ever really do. and uh you know he was not well and um he had emphysema and i'd seen him before but whenever i saw him he was always you know he's pretty positive guy he was never moping around and saying oh i don't know how much longer i have he was always like yeah we're gonna got this project i'm trying to figure out a way that we can do this he had this forward movement forward thinking positive attitude you know so i think we were all like all right you know david's you know he's Slowed down a little bit, but we're still going to make stuff.

40:22So when it abruptly stopped, it was a shock. But his compound where he had three houses together was such a thing and so powerful. And it was just that was where David was. And for the longest time, that's where David was in my mind. Even though I didn't speak to him, I didn't see him, but that wasn't unusual. We would go for periods of time where we wouldn't see each other. But in my head, he was always there. and I talk about when I finally saw on whatever website they were the house they were trying to sell the house right and they had interior photos you know and you go through and I'm like he's not he's not there and I was just like oh boy and that was really tough it kind of kind of hits you you know it's a that delayed reaction for me what it was so yeah I mean I was gonna ask if you had processed it and it sounds like yeah some ways some like a real estate Yeah.

41:13But then it's beauty. You know, I get together with Laura Dern, you know, or Isabella and we, or other friends, and we talk about David, particularly with Laura and Isabella because we had such a close relationship. And we tell stories and we laugh and he's very much around and alive. And I feel, you know, I feel him there when that happens. So it's kind of more of a celebration and we're not moping around and weeping and wailing. It's kind of like, remember that? Yeah, that was really great. Or this moment. So that's how we remember him. There's a chapter about Showgirls. A movie you say hovers over every interview.

41:49I honestly was not going to ask you about that, but then I saw that and I was like, challenge accepted. Challenge accepted. I mean, I think, but in some ways, I don't really have a question. It's like, I think there is an element of, when I saw that, and in the book, you're still very hard on that movie. I was kind of like, my sense is that this movie has been critically redeemed by everybody except this guy who's like who's in it. He's just like, I don't like it. No, people have sort of said, come on, Kyle, lighten up. But I am light. I mean, it's entertaining. It's a hoot, you know. I watched it again, and I was like, if I may guess or be a mind reader, the antipathy toward it, I was like, this just seems like a reminder of a time in a person's life that he did not enjoy.

42:37Well, I did not enjoy the process. I mean, it was pretty fun to shoot. I've got to say. So that was fun. For the most part. You know, Paul was scary, but that's okay. Paul Verhoeven, director. Paul Verhoeven, director, yeah. I mean, I love Paul. I love Paul, but he could be pretty intense. But part of the fun of doing it in the book was, you know, again, contextual, it's like, here's the context. You know what I mean? Here's where I was, the career. This is what I saw when I met. And, you know, this is where these guys were coming from. So you're like, gee, you start to move these pieces around.

43:05This could be really cool. This could be really edgy, you know. And there's a chance for me to play a not a nice guy right out front. And I was like, OK, I like that idea. He's just somebody that's got some things going on. So with all that rationalization, you're like, OK, let's go. And it was a beautiful ski season. We went South Lake Tahoe. So I got to ski. See where my priorities were. That's what we went into. And during the course of filming, yeah, there were sort of warning signs. And I kind of like, well, that's OK. You know, I'm not going to look over there. that's fine and uh and made choices character choices for the role that were just like i look at them like what an idiot but you know you make a choice you go with it and uh and then you had the screening the infamous screening where i talk about in the book where i sat and watched this thing and just kind of melted you know i just like oh boy i'm in trouble i'm in big trouble and yeah you know a cultural artifact that lives on will live on forever live on forever one thing I like about the book a lot is it's about many things, but partially it's about this notion of, for lack of a better word, like, I mean, it's literally, you know, about these other selves, you know, and it's about fame in some ways.

44:24You talk about how people like will come up to you and say like, oh, well, like, where did you go? Right. Which I always think is such a fascinating question. You know, I think, I think you say in the book, like, I'm right here is the answer, But that is to live that, to live this thing of like, OK, I've done this career in movies, TV. I've shot all this stuff. And yet somehow there's all these forces that are like bigger than me that leads a person to walk up to me and be like, where'd you go, man? Yeah, yeah. What is that? I mean, I don't know. How do you feel in those moments? I've always felt like just in talking with you now, I think there's an issue.

45:04I have an issue with fame. You know what I mean? And it's like, that is not something that I want to get close to, sort of. You know, it's too scary. Really? What's scary about it? It's got too much of a, like, you're sort of like, what's that? Is it The Bug's Life? You know, when the moth is like, is it the moth flying towards the flame? It's so beautiful. You're like, you know, like, and I'm like, yes, that's, fame is that light. You know what I mean? Don't go there, you know. So it's, I think, just have a healthy relationship that would be with some distance, you know. So don't deal with that, you know.

45:43I mean, I'm just like, no, no, this is, I'm an actor, you know. I create these roles. I've had great good fortune. I've worked with some really great people in some really cool roles. And I love that, you know. And that's good. That's where we should be, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think there are people who can, like, play fame like an instrument, you know. And you've been on sets with these people who are just kind of like, they, it's, to them, That's a good line, play fame like an instrument. They're at the keys or whatever, and you just control it. Then a very, I think, probably more common experience in your industry is to use another metaphor.

46:19You're in the ocean, and sometimes the wave comes, and sometimes you catch it, and sometimes you're on the wave, and sometimes you fall off the wave, and sometimes you're in the ocean, and no waves are coming at all. It's a real existence. I'm just fascinated by people like you who live through it. You know? It's, well, you know, I don't know what to say, just that it's, yeah. I guess if there were a question, it would be like, have you made your peace with that? Yeah. Sometimes you're on the wave, sometimes it's coming, sometimes it's not there at all. So I think just being able to, you know, I think just the process, just having kind of weathered a lot of time now.

46:55It's 40 years. Yeah. Over 40 years. And I'm like, yeah, there's been the ups and downs. and try to, you know, if you try to keep this line as smooth as to the gain, it's not up and down, you know what I mean? You're not going like this. You're just like, yeah, okay, we're going to be okay, we're going to be okay. And in the beginning it's very hard because you don't have anything to measure it against, you know. But after you've been down the road for a while, you're like, okay, this was a high, you know, and then you had this kind of low, but then, you know, then you came into here and then this, you know, just keep balance.

47:23Balance is really important for me. From one host to another, how did I do? You were great. Are we summing up now? do you have a is that is that what you call it when you end an interview you say something something up so i always say um at the end i said did we did because the name of the podcast is what are we even doing what are we even doing i said did we figure out what we're even doing and usually say no but we're going to keep trying so okay um do we figure out what we're doing no but we had a really good conversation maybe a little bit i think i think you know what you you when you talked about the fame thing i hadn't i hadn't quite framed it and i for some reason sort of clicked into place a little bit about yeah how i am definitely not comfortable with it being too close it's it's fascinating to watch uh someone who has like really kind of like approached the upper echelons of that and then run away yeah you know yeah yeah you know doesn't make me comfortable yeah and i i like honestly i think sometimes you talk to people and uh they'll be like, oh, you talk to notable people for a living.

48:31What are they like or whatever? And you're like, they're not like anything. They're just people. But certain people in certain levels of fame, I'm like, this life is actually insane. There's no communicating to you how different this is from whatever you know and are familiar with. Yeah. No, I hear what you're saying, and I agree. I agree. and I think it's, because what I think what happens is it can start to warp isn't necessary, it changes you, it can change you. And as an actor, I don't, I have to come, I mean, I'm a person. I mean, I got to create from what's in here that's got to be all the mess, you know what I mean?

49:12And all the good stuff and all the bad stuff. And then I got to, and if I start, I don't know, believing I'm something else, then I don't have anything to work with. Yeah. If that makes sense. But, I mean, you're so young when you start. That's actually the classic person who gets their brain completely ruined by this experience. Yeah, yeah. Which is, in some ways, I think what happened to me might have been is. Actually, I've come to terms with it is a blessing. The fact that suddenly I wasn't catapulted into five noon pictures, and God knows what else would have happened. So in some ways, it was like a nice warm bath, you know what I mean?

49:48And then it came crashing down, you know what I mean? And then we started to rebuild again. And rebuilding in a very interesting, and ultimately turned out to be a very interesting way, which I'm very proud of and happy about. Thanks for doing this. Yeah, the pleasure. I really enjoyed this. It's nice talking with you. You're going to go far, kid. Thanks for listening to our episode of One More Question with Kyle McLaughlin. We'll be back next week and every Tuesday after that with more of these. This episode was directed by Nick Collett and edited for video by Gerard Zara. Our creative producer for this episode was Christian DeVore with additional producing from Camille Ramos.

50:26Talent for this episode was booked by Randy Peck. Our sound mixer was Gloria Marie. Our line producer is Jen Santos and our production manager is Evie Roop. Our senior director of content integrity is Mick Rouse. And this episode was fact checked by Julia Pagnamenta. Our supervising editor is Rob Lombardi. Our post-production supervisor is Jess Dunn. and our post-production coordinator is Stella Shortino. For this episode, we had additional editing from Brant Sponable and our assistant editor was Justin Simons. Our executive director of Global Audio is Nico Steele. Our podcast production manager is Peyton Hayes and our podcast mixing and mastering engineers are Mike Kutchman and Pran Bandy.

51:06Our executive producer is Cara Marciante. Our director of creative is Nick Collett and our director of programming is Jeremy Clowney. Nick Sylvester composed our theme song and our artwork was designed by Michael Hoots. The photos of me in the credits were taken by Bo and Fernie.

51:23From Vanity Fair, I'm Marc Aducci, and I want to tell you about our new show, Fair Game. On every episode of Fair Game, I'll sit down with a leading character in our culture, from the worlds of Hollywood, politics, style, Silicon Valley, and beyond. Fair Game is a deep dive into some of the personalities that shape our world, and the stories that you need to hear. Think, everyone and everything that you'd read about in the pages of Vanity Fair. So join me, Mark Aducci, on YouTube, VanityFair.com, and wherever you listen to podcasts. It's all fair game.

51:58Are you ready to push your baking skills? This month at Bon Appetit Bake Club, we are making glazed apple pie fritters. I'm Shilpoz Kokovic. And I'm Jessie Sepchig. And we're senior test kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of BA's Bake Club podcast. Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers. Every month, we publish a recipe on BonAppetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know. Then you'll go bake and send us any questions you have. And we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And if you want to master deep frying, this is your chance.

52:32Head to BA.com or our sub stack and come and bake along with us. Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake. Find BA Bake Club wherever you get your podcasts. Happy baking.

53:13who will share their real-time thoughts on the collections everyone is talking about. So tune into the run-through from September 28th through October 2nd for your exclusive look into Paris Fashion Week. You won't want to miss it.