Failure is Success with Vernon Turner

0:00This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to-do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person, on the phone, or using the award-winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

0:26Race the runners! Race the sails! Race the sails! Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one. Get started today at linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Tuesday on NBC, Jimmy Fallon and Bozema St. John host the highly anticipated new competition show. I hired 10 creatives from all walks of life.

1:06They will be battling it out to see who can impress the world's biggest brands. This is a huge opportunity. This is the battle for the next big idea. This is not play play. We're spending millions of dollars. I'm so excited to embark on this adventure with all of you. Make the best idea win! On brand with Jimmy Fallon. Series premiere Tuesday on NBC.

1:30Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci, and this is Open Book, where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word, from authors and historians to figures in entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist. Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're enjoying or how we can do better. You know, I can roll with the punches, so let me know.

2:04Anyways, let's get to it.

2:14It's impossible to listen to my guest today, Vernon Turner and not be inspired. He's overcome unthinkable adversities, pushed himself beyond the limits, and achieved incredible success. He's now on a mission to use his time and influence to help change and save as many lives as he can. I admire and respect Vernon a great deal, and know you will too after listening to this interview. Let's get to it.

2:46I'd like to take a second to recommend my friend Andy Ostroy's great podcast, The Back Room. Every episode is a fun, incredibly honest take on our society and the political situation, along with some brilliant guests. I've been honored to join Andy on the show, and you know anywhere that accepts me with no filter deserves a shout out.

3:13So joining us now on Open Book, and this is someone I was really looking forward to interviewing, is Vernon Turner. He's a former professional football player and now an author with a mission to change lives. And he's written a fascinating book. The title of the book is Beyond the Limits, Finding My Purpose. Vernon, I read this book very quickly and I saw myself in the book. I saw my kids in the book. I see America in this book, by the way, because this is such an aspirational book. Before we get into the book, who is, for my viewers and listeners, our viewers and listeners, who is Vernon Turner?

3:54Wow, that is such a broad, loaded question. Because Vernon Turner, I'm hoping, I'm working towards being someone that has acknowledged everything that came upon him, that learned from everything that he's gone through. and I want to leave a legacy that, you know, people can say, you know what, that's a pretty good guy. He's a good dude. And I got three kids. I got three amazing kids, Ashley, Darius, and Liam, and they're my world. And I'll be honest with you, if it weren't for them, I don't know if I would even be here today. I just want to be remembered as someone who gave it everything he had and everything that he did.

4:39All right. But it was a rough start for Vernon Turner, right? I mean, you write about it. You're basically raising yourself. What am I getting wrong about Vernon Turner? You're shooting in the dark about your life. You're an incredibly talented athlete. You're also an autodidact. You're teaching yourself what to do. So you're literally mentoring yourself, you're self-parenting. It comes with its highs and lows, right? Because you've got to exaggerate your self-confidence to boost yourself up. And then there's also moments of despair. And you write very beautifully about how you react to all these things in life.

5:12But you're here. I mean, one of the things about your book that you graced me with your book because of its authenticity. When I read the book, I was like, all right, this is a real dude. This is a guy that's bleeding. You were bleeding on some of those pages. And so how does somebody that is bleeding, what is the self-talk? What is the thought process to get them to pull themselves together and to live the best version of themselves. You know, I have to circle back to almost to the beginning. Had I not lived this life, Mooch, I wouldn't believe it. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't live it myself.

5:50You know, you're talking about, you're looking at a person that, you know, was born and raised in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. Started off with myself and my little brother living in my grandmother's house with a crap load of cousins. My grandmother was the grand poobah of grandmoms, man. She was like, she had 10 kids and raised them herself. I mean, she was a badass. She really was. And I think I got my strength from her because I rarely saw my mom at that time, six and a half, seven years old. She was always out. And that's another amazing woman that it breaks my heart to even just think about all the things that she went through.

6:25But I have so much more love and respect for her now than ever before. But going what she went through back then, it was funny because she would go out and she would leave for a few days and come back and she would greet. I would run to the door and she would bypass me and go to my younger brother. And it got to a point to where it was like I used to hide when she would come home. So I wouldn't experience that. So it all started there as far as that self-reflection. And as years went on, when I found out, you know, how I came into this world, it just made it even much worse. I felt like trash.

7:03You know, my mom was assaulted when she was 18 years old by three guys. And I'm the result of that. And she told me that her she told me what happened to her. And prior to that, I thought my mom really just didn't care for me or she something was up. I just didn't, I knew something was way off. But when she told me that, the first thing that came to my mind was, man, I'm garbage. God dang it, I'm garbage. And I wouldn't even look at myself in the mirror, Mooch. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. And for years, that was me. I was braiding hair, cooking dinners, changing diapers at age nine, because my mom was still wigged off on their drugs.

7:47Now, this story, I'm skipping around, but this story is a head scratcher because my mom was not only doing drugs, she was out there prostituting out in the streets. That's why she was out all those nights doing what she was doing. And she meets this guy, this Italian white dude from Staten Island, New York, man. And this cat fell in love with my mom. I mean, I wouldn't him believe it if if i didn't live this damn thing man he falls in love with this lady a prostitute of a different race with two kids moves her into his home in staten island which that's a completely different story and with her two kids and me prior to us leaving i was in my head i was told that hey you know this is not good you know you're going into an all-white neighborhood they're gonna try If they can kill you and get away with it, they would.

8:42I mean, because back then in the 70s, it was pretty bad, man, the race, you know, the racial tension. So in my head, I thought this cat was bad. I thought he was a bad guy. And Mooch, I was so wrong about that guy. That is my hero. That is a guy that had unconditional love. I had to write a segment in the book about this dude that he just unconditionally loved this woman. and he did everything he could to help her, you know? And from there, I just, again, I was wondering like, why did my mom keep me? Because she had an opportunity to lead me and my brother with my grandmother. She had a chance.

9:21She said, no, they're coming with me. They're coming with me. And it took me decades, decades to figure out this whole dynamic of my family and what my mom went through and what my dad went through And my mental psyche, because there were times, and I'm going to skip around, age 15, my mom passes away because I wished her dead. I thought I murdered my mother, man. No, you're right about it. I mean, you're right about your self-responsibility, which thankfully you mentally adjusted to disclaim, thankfully. You know, I got to say this to you because, you know, you and I are born on the same day.

10:00Did you know that? You're born on the 6th of June. I was going to mention that. Right, 19... I was going to mention that, yes. Right. And so you're my birthday brother. Okay. And I was having a great time on my birthday until Trump stole my birthday. He also stole your birthday, right? Because he's insurrected the Capitol on the 6th of January, which is your and my birthday. and when I think about my life, okay, and I think about the tribulations that I've had in my life or whatever the difficulties that I've had, what's gotten me through is forgiveness. Particularly, someday you and I are going to have a beer and I'll tell you about the way I grew up and I'll tell you about some of the trials and tribulations and I'll tell you about some of the drug addiction in my family and some of the issues that my parents had, etc.

10:47etc. And, you know, I so identify with you because you pulled yourself out of the soup, you know, but you did get this help, right? And we don't, sometimes we have to acknowledge this stuff, right? We get so much help from so many different people in life. And you write beautifully about the help that you got. But I want to say this to you and I want you to respond to it, okay? Jackie Robinson, who's one of my heroes, if you go into my office, you'll see I've got a picture of Jackie and I've got a picture of Muhammad Ali, two of my heroes in my office. And why are they my heroes? Because they didn't give a shit.

11:25You understand what I mean? They did not give a shit. They were like, okay, I'm going to do this. And what did Jackie say? That your life really doesn't have that much meaning until you're in the process of serving others. It's one of the best lines ever. And I tell people, if you're depressed or you're unhappy, go help somebody. Okay. Lift the kid out of poverty or go, go, you know, to a soup kitchen or find a family member that's not doing well and see if you can help them out. Respond to that. Am I right about that? No, you're absolutely right. Because the whole purpose of me writing that second book, Beyond the Limits, Finding My Purpose, because for so long, I didn't, I didn't have a purpose here in my heart.

12:06I didn't have a purpose. It came close so many times, Mooch, that I would take myself out, you know, by prescription, because I did not see that purpose. What, why in the hell did, did the big guy keep me on this damn earth? Why did my mom make the decision to keep me? You know, why did, I mean, all of these things, you know, it's funny. I gotta, I gotta pivot a little bit because of something I just said just now, just this, this second, I have countless, countless inbox messages asking me all sorts of questions about my journey after of the National Football League, released that documentary on me.

12:41And one of the questions that they asked was chilling to me. And it was such an easy answer for me. And that was, oh, so I have to ask you, Mr. Turner, are you, are you, you're pro-life, right? You're pro-life. And I just, I stared at it, the question, and I had to reply. And my reply was, no, I am pro-choice. I am pro-choice. And I replied and they replied almost immediately. And I didn't elaborate. How could you say that by the way you came into this world? I said, precisely. I said, imagine. I said, let me let you know what my thought process. Imagine if my mom, she was brutally raped by three scumbags.

13:23Imagine if she was forced to keep me and she didn't want me. She was forced to keep me. Okay. Now, how do you think I would have turned out? She was forced to keep me. Even if I was a board, I mean, even if I was put up for adoption, what are the chances of me going into a good family or going into a family that, that was solid? I said, so my thing is, is that my mom was strong enough to make that decision on her home, on her own to keep me. And that was one of the things that I thought about that made me, I think all the time, man, I think especially now more than ever, you know, and my purpose I found out is that I had this story, this unbelievable story, this unbelievable journey of mine that I'm finally getting the courage to share.

14:06I am so vulnerable. I am so weak sometimes, but it's not about me. It's never been about me. It's about why I'm on this earth. And this is to share and help share my story with as many people as I can and to help as many people as I can. I self-published my book. I did that for a couple of reasons, but mainly because I had to make sure that my family was okay with what I'm putting out there because there's a lot of stuff that my family were not aware of that I wrote in that book. And I made five copies on both books and I sent it to my family. And if they weren't okay with what was in that book, I wasn't going to publish.

14:47So I had that, I needed that control. And number two, it wasn't about, it was not about the monetary gain of it for me. I could have sold my rights. I could have done it all. I could have done all of that stuff, but I needed that control. That was the main source of me doing the way I did it. The beyond the limits, finding my purpose, Mooch, I had to push beyond what I thought my limits were to find my purpose, if that makes any sense to you. It's like I had no business plan in the National Football League. I was not that good of a football player. I wasn't. It was the circumstances that were placed before me that if I did not pull that off, Mooch, my family, my brothers and sisters were going to foster care.

15:27so anyone who came up against me if they weren't willing and ready to die on the field it was a wrap dude i had them because i was ready to die and i didn't tell this to anybody i didn't tell this to anybody no i've watched what i've watched films of you okay and i i get the intensity i get the uh the killer instincts that you have i i i have to ask you this question okay if you don't mind uh why'd you seek me out this is one of the beauties of social media we also thought we talk about the harangue of social media and the negativity. We're going to get into negativity. I had to channel it in a second, but you reached out to me in social media.

16:06I'm going to tell you, I actually knew who you were because of the documentary and some other things. And so I responded very quickly. And then you sent me a copy of your book and then I read the book. I'm like, I told my producer, we've got to get you on the show. But why? Why'd you reach out to me? Well, Mooch, you know, my circle is extremely small because I can't do BS. I'm pretty, my tact is challenging. I'm a straight shooter. I'm a believer of common sense. I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a common sense cat. Anyone that represents us, they need to make common sense. They need to have morals.

16:47They need to have values, empathy, compassion, understanding, trust, integrity. You've got to have those components. And there's some of the things that's going on in this country today. You know where I'm going. So I saw you. It was when you were attached to 45 and you did an interview and you were a condescending, arrogant bastard as far as I was concerned. And I did not like you at all. So some time goes on and you detached and I don't know what day it was, but you were on CNN and you did an interview. And dude, I'm telling you, your your transparency, your ownership, your authenticity in regards to you being real on what you were saying.

17:36I sat there and watched that whole damn thing from start to finish, man. I'm like, I said, all right, dude, you got me. You got me. So I immediately went on Twitter and I sent you a message. And I think I told you, I didn't like you. You told me that. I usually enjoy the people that dislike me the most, actually, because I learn from the people that dislike me the most. No, no, no. Hey, listen, I grew up in an Italian family. There were racists in my family. I'm not going to bullshit you, okay? Because there's racism in our society. We're roughly the same age. I got lucky. Why did I get lucky?

18:12because there was a housing project in the area I grew up in, and there were a lot of African-American kids that I grew up with. And so it was very natural for me. I didn't really see their color. I'm not saying that everybody in my family was like that. Okay, there were racists in my family. Come on. Who's going to bullshit you, okay? And my uncle, who ran a motorcycle shop, his partner was an African-American Vietnam veteran who I adored. Okay, I love the guy. And so for me, I'm a product of my environment, right? So when I left law school, I joined the National Mentoring Program, and I took a black kid from the Bronx who basically couldn't read.

18:51He was 13 years old. He wanted to choke the people in the public school system in New York. I got him some tutors. I got him some money. I paid for his education to go to a private Catholic school. Taught him how to read. Kicked his ass. It was one day. You'll love this story. I'm in my Honda Civics. I had no money, but I'm paying for this kid's tuition and he's great suck and I'm ready to choke him. And then there's this guy coming over to the, we're on Fordham road in the Bronx. Okay. You know, I'm, you know, I don't give a shit. I'm on Fordham road in the Bronx and the guy's coming over to squeegee my, uh, my thing.

19:27I got out of the car. I took the seatbelt off, got out of the car. He said, get the fuck away from my car. Okay. And I said, you get the fuck out of it. Then I looked at Errol. I said, if I ever see you do something like that, I'm going to choke you. Okay. You're going to get yourself a real job and you're going to fortify yourself with self-esteem and a real experience. So Mr. Errol is now 44. Okay. And he's living in Hudson Yards and he runs like all the security for these buildings down there. He's got three beautiful kids. Okay. And he's one of my bros. You know, he's one of my people. You understand what I'm saying?

19:59And so when I got the message from you and you were starting some shit with me, which of course I enjoy. and then I'm reading, I said, I got to read this guy's book. Okay. You know, and that's, that's where it's at. Okay. That's where it's at. Okay. That's where it's at. So you could see me as a cracker. Okay. Or as an arrogant prick. Okay. Because of the impression, but it may not be that you follow me. And I think that's everybody in America right now. Okay. Let's dial it down. Let's meet each other where we live and let's get to know each other better. And guess what? we're going to find out we have way less differences than impressed upon in social media or impressed upon in the networks do i have that right vernon or what am i what do i you know you're right and the thing with this is that i owed you that reach out because of how i felt inside i owed you that because i felt one way about you and then seeing a different side of you and seeing a new uh just this latest new side it completely i did i did a 180 But I got it wrong.

21:00You know, Trump, Trump, look, people be pissed at me. I don't give you. He's a racist man. I'm just letting you know. You could like Trump or dislike Trump. Just tell you he is. I'm trying to be nice on this thing when it comes to number 45. I really am. And I'm going to continue to do that. I know where I am and where I stand as far as that whole thing. But he's a bad dude. I don't even know why these black guys are voting for him. I'm like, all right, guys, you don't even understand. You don't even understand what the hell is going on. And I got it because he's a great manipulator. He's a great salesman, but he's not a healing guy.

21:31Okay. Healing people love people. Healing people bring people together. Young people don't try to divide and conquer. You understand what I'm saying? The country's imperfect, Vernon. The country's imperfect. But what did Lincoln say about the country? Okay. It's an imperfect union, but it's up to us to make it more perfect. It's up to us to make it better. What did King say? All right. We got to judge ourselves by the character, not the skin color. There's no King without Jackie. No. There's no king without Jackie. And what did Branch Rickey say to Jackie? I need you to be strong. He goes, you mean to be strong?

22:04You mean to fight these racists on the field? He goes, no, I need you to be stronger than that. To not fight the racists on the field. Absolutely. And that's one of the movies that I have on my DVR that I watch all the time. I tried to produce that movie. I bought the rights to opening day. Jackie's one of my heroes. And I met with Rachel Robinson, who's going to be 102 years old this year, this July. and she told me I was too white to make that movie. And I was upset at the time, okay? And that was maybe 10, 12 years ago. And so she said, I'm not going to make the movie where you're too white.

22:38And I said, okay, I was upset at the time. And then I met with a couple of my buddies who were black and we had the conversation. I said, you know, Rachel's probably right. I probably am too white because I haven't been in the world from the prism of what Jackie actually saw and what Jackie had to actually deal with. But anyway, I didn't produce the movie. The movie turned out phenomenal. And it was very, she loved it, which is more important than everything else. But that's where we're at, Vernon. You know, that's where we're at. And that's why I wanted to bring you on. And I'm grateful for you for coming on.

23:10And I'm grateful there's an unconditionality of spirit in your personality. And you got to drive like I've never seen. You know, I mean, you know, like if I'm if I'm having a bad day, I got to think about what would Vernon Turner do in terms of what's going on in my day? You know, because of the some of the things you've experienced. Well, I tell you, Moach, again, if I didn't live it, I wouldn't believe it myself. The things that, you know, I went through. And here's the crazy part. And you had already mentioned it. You know, I couldn't do any any of that stuff by myself. Just keeping it real.

23:43I had to have my army of angels. I had to have my Pop Warner League football coach, Bill Thatcher. I had to have my high school football coach, Fred Oliveri. I had to have my college football coach, Ken Sparks and Dennis Webb. And, you know, I had to have these cats. I had to have the Sam Weish of Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the George Stewart's and the Marvin Levy's. I mean, all in the heck, Frank Gans with the Detroit Lions. I mean, I had to have these cats to be the person that I'm now and today in regards to never quitting and and and having moving, pushing beyond those limits that you think you those limits are for you.

24:21And again, that was one of the reasons why that I got inspired to write the second book. The first book was my autobiography, The Next Level of Game I Had to Play. I just had a whole lot of crap inside. I had to get out. I just had to get out that I'd never shared with anybody. And once I did that, then I had to take it up another notch. And I'm not, I don't consider myself a very astute individual. I'm a street guy. Okay. I learn on the go. Pretty much everything that I've done, I've learned on the go. I learned how to enunciate most words on the go. I've just, again, I struggled. Yeah. I struggled reading when I was in school.