From Food Stamps to the US Senate with John Deaton

0:04Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci, and this is Open Book, where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word, from authors and historians to figures in entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist. Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're enjoying or how we can do better. You know, I can roll with the punches, so let me know.

0:38Anyways, let's get to it.

0:47Not many people are as inspiring as my guest today, John Deaton, coming from one of the roughest neighborhoods in America with violence becoming second nature to joining the Marines and taking on the SEC. He's now taking his shot at retiring Elizabeth Warren by running for the U.S. Senate in Massachusetts. I don't think there's anything John can't do. Let's hear his story.

1:17So joining us now on Open Book is John Deaton. He's the managing partner of the Deaton Law Firm, but he's also a candidate for the United States Senate in the state of Massachusetts. He's an author of a book that I loved, which I predict when you win the Senate race, John, this book is going to become a bestseller. It's called Food Stamp Warrior, a Memoir. So we're going to get into the Senate race in a second, but I really want people to get a sense for your background among so many things, John. You're a son, a brother, a hustler, a victim, a fighter. You're a cancer patient, former Marine. You're a lawyer, a husband, and a father.

1:56Okay. All of that's in the book. Why did you write this book, John? Take us through your life. Thanks, Anthony. I appreciate you having me. You know, the book, I never thought I was going to publish it, to be honest with you. As I describe in the book, I come from one of the worst places in America, a place called Highland Park, Detroit, and it's ranked in the top three to five worst cities in America for the last 40 years. Extreme violence. My mother stabbed when I was six and I watched it. She was subject to domestic abuse. I dropped out of high school like every sibling before me because on the first day I had a 38 shoved in my mouth and the hammer cracked back.

2:38So for three months, I was that person just like every single one of my family. My mother was a single mother in welfare and food stamps, a father not around. And she caught me crying, Anthony one day and she said, son, why are you so upset? And I said, mom, I don't want to drop out of high school. I want to go to college. And I'm going to tell you what poverty does to people, man. My mother, God bless her, strongest woman I ever met and my hero. She puts her arm around me and she says, honey, I'm sorry, but that's just not for people like us. And generational poverty had stripped her of all ambitions and it handcuffs your your mind and your spirit.

3:19And so I vowed to to break that cycle. I was a subject of child rape, of a child molester in the neighborhood over a period of two years. And I just wanted to escape that environment. Worked really hard. Got a got a lucky break. I found a high school principal named Terry Urquhart. And he said, listen, I'll make you earn it. I'll cut the tuition. It was fourteen hundred dollars a year. That was like 14 ,000 to me back in 81. And if you play football and two sports, maintain a high GPA and you work after school and you earn it. And I did. Then I went to college, was a forklift driver and a waiter, went through college, went to law school in Boston.

4:01When you look at me, Anthony, I'm the embodiment of the American dream and everything that's capable in this great country. And so I joined the Marines, but I never really, I was always chasing to escape poverty, to break the cycle of a deadbeat dad and be a great father. And I achieved all that. Anthony, I had money in the bank. But then that unexamined trauma of being raped as a child and all the violence that I was subject to, part of and all that, it really started bothering me. My mother, unfortunately, was dying at the same time before my eyes. I got injured in the Marine Corps, not in combat, but in training.

4:43Medically retired. They prescribed me Oxycontin, just like saying, hey, it's a wonder drug. It's not addictive. And so I battled that. And all of that sort of happened at the same time. And finally, I realized that I wasn't being the man I was supposed to be. went to therapy for the first time and started writing the book as a cathartic exercise. It was my form of therapy. And finally, when it was done after a period, a couple of years, I gave it to a couple of friends and they convinced me to publish it. And I did. And I got to tell you, I've had the best decision, no matter how many books I sell, it doesn't matter.

5:21I've had grown men come up to me with tears in their eyes, my age, your age, basically saying that they also had experienced some kind of trauma like that and that the book helped them. You know, here's this so-called tough guy from Detroit, a Marine, you know, admitting that I was damaged. It affected me. It affected my relationships and how I dealt with people and came to terms with it. And so I'm really proud of the book, to be honest with you. No, listen, I mean, you know, if I was Elizabeth Warren and I was on her staff and I read this book, I would be super worried because you are a, you're not a food stamp warrior.

5:58You're a real world, real life warrior. I mean, you may also be a food stamp warrior, but my point is, is that you've got a background geared for the fight that America is facing, which is a internal and an external fight. But let's stay on this for a second. I had family in Ferndale, which is probably not too far from where you grew up in Michigan. Am I right? Somewhere in that area. Yeah, you're Right. Ferndale, Eminem made 8 Mile famous as a, and it was a divisional border. If you went south of 8 Mile, you were more into poverty. If you went north of 8 Mile, it didn't mean you were rich. It just meant it was less violent.

6:35When I'm in Michigan, I stay in Birmingham, which is a super wealthy area. But my dad grew up in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Part of his family went to Detroit to work in the assembly lines. That could have been me. I could have grown up in Latroy. He ended up going out to Long Island. He followed his older brother into the sand mines out here. And so that's why I'm a New Yorker and a Long Islander. But our origins impact us. So tell us about the rough and tumble neighborhood that you grew up in. Yeah, listen, Highland Park, if you went through it today, it would look like part of Ukraine where Russian convoy went through.

7:09You know, every third building is either gone or it's broken down. Highland Park at one point in the early, you know, Henry Ford opened his first Model T plant in Highland Park and Chrysler World Headquarters was located there as well. And Sears and Roebuck was there. And so it was a flourishing time. But in the late 50s, Henry Ford shut down the plant. It went from, you know, a very nice place to live to a very bad place to live in a matter of 10 years. I was born during the race riots in Detroit in 1967. So racial tension was really bad. And basically all that was left there were unemployed welfare recipients and poor people.

7:51It was a predominantly black neighborhood. A lot of the people that could afford to move out did. You know, they call that white flight type of situation. You know, my from kindergarten to the eighth grade, that that area, there were about 700 students, about three white students. So I grew up, got a lot of fistfights growing up, got my butt kicked quite a bit, but also got lucky. And I found a mentor. And the truth is he dropped out of high school. He sold drugs. And that's what you see in those neighborhoods. But he was five years older than me and he took a liking to me and he was my mentor.

8:28He helped protect me, also gave me some street cred because I was affiliated with him. I wasn't selling drugs or anything. He was just somebody that protected me. in the neighborhood. And unfortunately, and I could talk about the rapes and stuff, Anthony, I don't get emotional. But when I talk about losing him, I get emotional. He died in my arms from a drive-by and he was shot four times. And at 17, I lost him. And that's probably one of the biggest, saddest moments of my life. And so it was a really bad neighborhood. That high school, I told you I bumped into a fella. He shoved me up against the locker, pulled a 38 in my mouth.

9:08And and the next day I went across the street, got a gun. And so on my way back to high school, and I realized I sat on a bench and I cried for like four or five hours because I knew I was headed to prison or, you know, going to be a high school dropout with a criminal record or I'm going to die. And so on that day, I decided not to. And I started looking for those high schools. It took me three months. We didn't have Google back then, so I couldn't Google nearby high schools. And so for three months, I searched for that high school. And, you know, thank God I got that principal. I'm sure he took a little pity on me.

9:42You know, a 14 year old kid walks in and says, how much is the tuition and can I work it off? And he asked me, you know, where my dad was. I said, I don't know, you know, probably at the racetrack gambling or something. And that my mom was home taking care of my younger siblings and he gave me a shot. And to me, that's what America is all about. You get an opportunity and you take it, you work hard. And look at me now, I'm running for U.S. Senate from a kid who they didn't think would graduate high school or would end up in jail or dead. I'm now challenging, you know, one of the most entrenched Washington elites in Washington, D.C.

10:21And to me, that's America at its best, man. Well, I not only agree with you, which is why I didn't even want to interrupt you because the story is so powerful, so amazing. Let's add something to the best of America. There's a woman in your life by the name of Mary Mills. Tell us who Mary Mills is, which is also a representation of the best of America. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Mary Mills is my mother. I dedicated the book to Mary Mills, a.k.a. Mommy, and strongest woman I ever met because she never gave up. She was a single mother. You talk about a hard life, man. My mother lost her father and her mother and her older brother at the age of 14.

11:06She graduated the eighth grade, became a waitress. She lost virginity, got pregnant at 18 to a guy that said, you know, go to hell after she told him she was pregnant. She met my father when my brother was two weeks old. And my father, she had a famous saying, Anthony, my father, who was older than her, and he was kind of like a hot shot guy on his way up, but he was a degenerate gambler, unfortunately. He said to her, marry me and you'll never want for anything. And my mother, God bless her, said, I married that man, son, and I've been wanting ever since. So he turned out, unfortunately, to be a deadbeat dad, addicted to gambling.

11:44And my mother had six kids, four different fathers. So I had that white trash label most of my life. But let me tell you something, that woman, a lot of women in that neighborhood, they turned to drugs, alcoholism. Every day she got up and she fought just to put Food on the Table. And the thing I write in the book that haunts me to this day, if I think about it, was listening to her cry on the nights that she couldn't do it. Now, most of the time she did, but there were nights that, you know, we went to bed hungry. And, you know, when you go, your mom tells you to go to bed, Anthony, and you say, but mommy, I'm hungry.

12:20And, you know, she puts you to bed, but then you listen to her cry herself to sleep because of the shame that, you know she feels, even though she did her best, that's something that will haunt you and motivate you. And it did both. It haunted me. And I've been fighting against those cries, you know, all my life to make sure that if I had children, they would have a better life and honor my mother. You know, my mother with an eighth grade education is still my hero. She died in March of 2020, but, you know, she died a proud mama. Well, I love the way you speak of her in the book. I love the the way you speak of her on Open Book, our podcast.

12:59And are you going to be like John Boehner when you get to Washington, and you're going to cry a lot, John? I can see the emotion in you. Are you? It's okay if you are, you know? Well, you know, I tell people that anybody that thinks that these, when you hear me, I get emotional on a couple of subjects. My daughters, my mom, my best friend that died. Anybody that thinks these are tears of weakness are a fool. These are tears of strength made of iron. No, listen, I love it. I don't even see it as that. I see it as somebody that actually understands the moment and understands the value of human life and understands the commitment that somebody like your mom had seeing things through for yourself.

13:38And so, you know, our bodies get overwhelmed with that. I'm just teasing you, boss. I want to see you in the United States Senate, okay? Well, listen, I appreciate it. You've been awesome, man. I appreciate it. I have a lot of respect and admiration for you. This is really a question I've been dying to ask you, and it's about resilience. Your mom has it. You certainly have it. Is it teachable? Is it inbred? Is it part of your makeup genetically? How do you teach somebody to take body blows? You know, I've taken some body blows. I get up off the mat, try to show my kids how to do that. But is it something you can teach somebody?

14:15You know, that's a fascinating question. And I think that what we have to do is where some of our own life experiences, you know, you've had those body blows and you've gotten back up. I've been knocked down. I get back up. And unfortunately, there are some people who've never experienced adversity. And so I think the key is exposing them. That doesn't mean making them, you know, suffer unnecessarily, but at least trying to show them how good they have it so that they, you know, one of my biggest challenges as a father, I sat back. I said, OK, obviously, I want to give my daughters everything that I could have never had.

14:51But how do I do that, but also make them appreciate, you know, that others don't have it, that I didn't have it and honor that kind of privilege that they have? And I think you just got to make an effort to expose them. I mean, you know, I've taken my daughters through the neighborhood I grew up with when they were young. And I said, listen, this is this is how your father grew up. You know, I worked hard to leave a place like this. and make sure that their actions, and, you know, I'm proud of my daughters and they obviously appreciate it, but I think it's a combination. You know, there are some people that don't get it, Anthony, and that never will, but I think that if you expose them to what real adversity that people are going through, that they can at least learn to appreciate it.

15:36So you rise, you overcome, you become a United States Marine, you become an attorney, and now you're doing battle against the government. You're going up against the Securities Exchange Commission on a number of different cases. One very important case to me is the Ripple case, right? Yeah. Tell us about that. Let me step back for a second too, because I want you to opine on this. I think this is one of the drivers for running for the United States Senate. We've politicized the regulatory process in our country, right? It's no longer about right or wrong, right? It's either left or right now. And so thank God we have a court system.

16:13That's why I'm always for a decentralized, flat or fair government, because the SEC is doing things that are actually against the law. You're fighting them. Give us a sense where you are today. Yeah, thanks. You know, I was XRP, which at the time was like the third largest crypto. It wasn't a big investment. I've been more of like a person that's invested in Bitcoin more than anything. And I had some Ethereum and I saw this lawsuit come down and I didn't think it was going to be a big deal, Anthony, because, you know, the SEC has sued many companies. And I figured that they were going to be targeting just Ripple and maybe Ripple packaged the asset in a way that technically violated the law.

16:51No big deal. But then when I read it, they were doing something, like you said, unsupported by the law. And they were claiming for the first time that the underlying asset, the token itself, which, you know, is just computer code. It's alphamonetic numbers. that it itself was a security, even if you didn't know anything about Ripple, you didn't buy it from Ripple. And that was a game changer because I knew that regular people were going to be harmed, that Coinbase and all the other exchanges would do what their lawyers advised them to do, which is delisted because the SEC is claiming it's an unregistered security.

17:27And so I just was outraged at the government overreach because the SEC was playing politics and ensuing the political agenda. So I sued them and it went viral, Anthony. And all of a sudden I had 10 ,000 people joining me. Then it was 30, then it was 50. And then it became 75 ,000 individual token holders got inspired. They joined me. We petitioned the court, did something that never been done, we asked the judge to name us defendants. So they sued us de facto, we might as well be defendants. The judge said, well, that's different. And, you know, she denied that, but made me amicus counsel. And we submitted affidavits and the judge cited the work that me and those 75 ,000 folks did.

18:13And it felt great. And it goes to show you too, that money's not about everything. A lot of people were like, well, why are you doing this? You know, must be friends with Brad Garlinghouse or something. I said, I never met Brad at the time. But when you get 75 ,000 people who've been inspired by you, that's a kind of payment that money can't buy. And so it's been great. And then I got involved in the library case and was amicus counsel there for the token holders. And it's worked out well. And I think that people are tired. All they want in this country is a level playing field. And when you get these unelected bureaucrats like Gary Gensler with political agendas.

18:49That's not what America is about. America is about a level playing field. Let the best technology win. Let innovation flourish. And that's what we're supposed to be about. But unfortunately, these agencies have been hijacked by political operatives. I mean, it's so well said and they keep losing these cases. So let's go to the crypto nemesis, somebody that has never really passed many laws, somebody that's supposedly a progressive. And I'm and it's going to show my full political stripes here, the great regressive. And so for the viewers and listeners, what is a regressive? Regressive tax is when you're hurting the poor.

19:28And so this woman by the name of Elizabeth Warren, a former Harvard Law School professor, now been in the Senate for a decade, running for re-election. To me, she's a regressive. She stands for everything that is against the poor. She's for the unbanked, supposedly, but then she doesn't like crypto. She now wants to legalize marijuana so she can drunk up our kids, I guess. Maybe she thinks that's going to get her reelected. But she's a radical at a time when America doesn't need radicals. So tell me why you want to leave this great business career that you have, this great legal career, and go run in the United States Senate against her.

20:06By the way, I'm thrilled and I'm going to be here to support you, but I just want to know why. Yo, absolutely. Well, first, everything you said is accurate. You know, income inequality is a political slogan to Senator Warren. To me, it's my life. And I don't believe in pitting American versus American and identity politics and the class warfare. And before I answer your question, why I'm specifically running, I just I think that she embotifies everything wrong with Washington, D.C. She went 11 years ago. She said she was outraged that the bankers didn't go to prison because of the 2008 financial crisis.

20:42She promised to go to Washington, D.C., Anthony, to hold the bankers accountable. Who do you think wrote her last bill? The Bankers Institute. We know that. The association. I mean, it was ridiculous. she just cut and pasted. I mean, she's bought and paid for. It's just so obvious. So now that they've written her last bill, she went to fight them, couldn't beat them, joined them. And now she's the biggest lobbyist for those bankers that she went to hold. But the reason I'm running is what you said earlier. This country's in crisis, man. And Massachusetts is ground zero in that crisis. And when I say crisis, it's everywhere around us.

21:21Illegal immigration debt crisis. Half of Americans don't have 500 bucks set aside in case of an emergency. On top of that, you got the inflation and housing costs that are so high as pricing regular people out of the economy. You got a million people dead on opioid addiction. You look overseas, Anthony, the world's in chaos with Iran and the Hooties in the Red Sea, Ukraine, Russia, Israel, Gaza. But when you look at the biggest crisis we face is the crisis of leadership in Washington, D.C., because those folks, all they want to do is fight for power or to stay in power, point the finger at each other, get nothing done.

21:57I'm running because I really do understand the struggle of regular folks, people who feel like they can't get ahead no matter what they do and doing everything right. And I understand those struggles because I've lived them, whether it's poverty, whether it's not being able to make your bills on time and that feeling that you're drowning no matter what you're doing, a small businessman. I put a hundred grand on credit card debt to run to start my business. You know what that's like and you take those chances. And so what I said to you earlier is that I embody the American dream and I fear that we're losing it and that it's dying before my eyes.

22:34Anthony, you know this. You're someone who gives to other people. I don't want to be one of the last poor people to achieve the American dream in this country. And when you look at D.C., you don't see someone with that experience who's overcome poverty, who understands those daily struggles. And I think it's time we hire someone like that. And when you look at Senator Warren, anyone else would be fired in Massachusetts with her job performance. She's presented as a primary sponsor over 350 bills. One in 11 years has been passed and had to do with flying flags on federal buildings. Anyone else gets fired.

23:11And I'm just asking the voters to hold her accountable, just like you or I would be held accountable at work. Okay, but it's a liberal. I'm going to push back at your heart. I want you to respond. It's a super liberal state. She is speaking the liberal mantra. She's not delivering, but she's speaking the liberal mantra. You're not speaking the liberal mantra. Aren't you in the tank for crypto? Isn't crypto a terrible thing? Isn't crypto for drug addicts and terrorists and crypto is a really bad thing for small investors. They could get ripped off in crypto and you represent that? No. Well, in fact, we need to ask Kurt, you and I know that all of that's not true.

23:50Cash is still the number one reason. When you look at crypto, it's 0.03 % of illicit activity. I know it's not true. You know it's not true. You're going to have to face a lot of people that think it is. But what I want them to know is with the things I talked about, illegal immigration, the debt crisis, inflation, housing prices, opioid addiction, foreign wars. Why with all those issues is Elizabeth Warren running her entire reelection on an anti-crypto platform? I know Massachusetts voters. I've been talking to them. Crypto is not a top five or top 10 issue for them right now. So why is their senator focusing on something?

24:27People ask me, am I pro-crypto? I say, I'm just pro-freedom. I'm pro-freedom and Bitcoin or owning assets and the self-custody of those assets, that's America. And if a person has a right to invest in what they want to invest in and her idea of banning a technology is nonsense. And this is what I say to voters. In Massachusetts, they don't lose, by voting for me, Anthony, they don't lose the things that they like about her. I'm pro-choice like she is. So that's not an issue for me. Income inequality, let's talk about it. She's great at fighting against people and things. I want to fight for people and issues.