Power, Politics, and Victory: Frank Carone on His Role as Former CoS to Mayor Adams

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1:23Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci, and this is Open Book, where I talk to some of the brightest minds about everything surrounding the written word. That's everything. That's from authors and historians to figures in entertainment, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Before we dive in, make sure to follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to leave a review. Good or bad, I want to hear from you. I want to hear whether you're enjoying it or where we can improve. And I can take the hits. So let me know. If you don't like something, say it straight. Now let's get into it.

2:06Today, I'm sitting down with Frank Carone. He's a Brooklyn guy. He served as Chief of Staff to Mayor Adams. Frank shares the inside scoop on what's really happening in New York City, from the mayor's vision to what will shape the city's future. We also talk about his win-win philosophy, leadership, relationships, and why New York remains the place where dreams are made.

2:36I am Anthony Scaramucci, your host. Welcome to Open Book. Joining me today is Frank Caron. Frank is the bestselling author of Everyone Wins. What a great name, Frank. He's a sought-after business litigator. He's an author. He's a former chief of staff for New York Mayor Eric Adams, and a lifetime New Yorker, I might add. Am I wrong, Frank? You're exactly correct. You know, you're here, you're me, you, me, Spike Lee, Eric Adams, the Cuomos, we're going to shut the lights out on this theater. We're not going anywhere, right? You're going anywhere, Frank? No, we're not. No, you can't go anywhere.

3:09Before we get into the book, tell us a little bit about you. Where'd you grow up? So I grew up in Canarsie. It's a section of Brooklyn, southernmost section. You know, Anthony, you hear a lot about the, you know, jazz and sexiness of Brooklyn over the last couple of years, maybe the last 10 years or so. But really, southern Brooklyn was the gritty section, particularly Canarsie, Sheepseh Bay, those areas. And then I ultimately went to Canarsie High School and stayed close by as I got older and got married and moved to Mill Basin, which is close next door to Canarsie, a little more west, which is a higher end area.

3:42When I grew up, it was a beautiful, terrific community to grow up in. It was gritty. It was difficult. I miss the close-knit nature of it, knowing everyone on your block and block parties and things of that nature. I couldn't really, I try to explain it to my children and it's hard to. It's just another era that doesn't really exist anymore, unfortunately in our city, but it was a great education to grow up outside of what I've come to learn in the books myself, but nothing like growing up in the streets of Canarsie and Brooklyn those days. It is really one of the more fabulous places in the world for me and obviously for you because we're both tied to our Italian heritage.

4:24We're tied to our families. We're tied to the grittiness as you described New York, southern Brooklyn, but other parts of New York. And it's something that I can't get out of my system. I know you can't get it out of your system. Your book focuses on something that I wish more people actually would focus on, and that is the win-win. I find a lot of people in my career on Wall Street or win-lose, they write and think in a zero-sum situation, what can I take from the other side? How can I leave the table with two-thirds, leave the other side with one-third? But a lot of times in life, that's not the case.

5:03The pie is big enough, Frank, isn't it, that we can all win at the table? And sometimes if we're collaborating, we can make more of a pie as opposed to transacting in a way where we're chopping at each other. Do I have that right, sir? I think you're spot on, Anthony. And it took a while to evolve into this way of thinking because you're right. We were conditioned as children and then, of course, as we became professionals to think of just competitiveness as a zero sum game. One wins, one loses. You mentioned your experience on the markets. Same thing in law firms and in litigation. There's very much this narrow mindset without really understanding by creating a larger pie and opening up unforeseen opportunities by thinking about direct and alignment with whoever it is that you're dealing with, whether a colleague, someone you're negotiating with, a lawyer.

5:57This applies in every single, I think, you know, facet of our lives, where if you consciously think clearly about what a person is saying to you, you could find direct alignment and common ground very, very often, more often than you think. And sometimes even what you perceive to be not necessarily a win, if you partake in this philosophy, I've learned that other wins that you weren't thinking of show up because of the nature of which you've comported yourself. And it happens to me all the time. So how do you break out of the mindset? Like, let's say you were my life coach. I came to your office, and after I got done looking at all your amazing comics, I said, Frank, wake me up.

6:39Shatter some of the totems of my personality and get me to think in a broader way. Well, you know, Anthony, I know someone like you who, and by the way, I've read Hopping Over the Rabbit Hole many years ago. I loved it. I know your blueprint for entrepreneurial success sort of really speaks to what I'm about to say, which is you first have to start with a mindset of long-term thinking, first and foremost, and not, you know, that whatever is in front of you is a crisis or a must -do or a must-win. But if you have a mindset of a long-term thinking and playing the long game, it becomes much easier to really absorb the topic that we're discussing, which is winning, finding common ground so that everyone can come away from a situation, some other winner.

7:21And sometimes you have to really catch yourself because our egos get in the way far too often. Our emotions get in the way far too often. So if I was your life coach and I was beginning, I would first really hammer into you the prospect of long-term thinking, long-term winning, and unforeseen wins and really conditioning you to think that way so that you could take wins with a grain of salt and losses with a grain of salt. I remember reading a book on Carthage. It talks about that tragedy is an imposter. Don't get too excited in a win and really not too upset in a lose. They're very difficult to do.

7:58We're emotional beings. But I would begin with that and really not move forward until I felt comfortable that you were really ready for that long-term mindset thinking. You got raised Catholic? I did. You think like a Catholic, Frank? You know, I would like to say yes, but the answer is probably not as much as I should. It's funny. One of my senior friends of mine recommended a book to me recently called 33 Days to the Eucharist. And I just finished it about a month ago. And I really, it dawned on me, you know, this large part of our Catholic faith really is lost on so many, including myself. I didn't really appreciate it.

8:37growing up, going to Catholic school as a young boy, crazy and Catholic, participating in all the Catholic fraternal organizations I can, volunteering. And it's like, you know, you're, you have this exposure, yet it's not really sinking into your being. So I don't think as much as a good Catholic as I should, but I do try and it's on my mind. And I think it's in there intuitively, this feeling of what's right and what's wrong. And, you know, you know it instinctively, and I tried to, but not as much as I should. I mean, because the reason I'm bringing this up is it's right there in your book. You write as a Catholic idealist about life.

9:15I was raised Catholic as well, and obviously, I'm still practicing my faith as I think you are. Let's talk about Catholic idealism for a second. Some of the tenets of it being that we're perishable. We learned this on Ash Wednesday, that we return to dust fairly quickly, that it's important in life to try to do the right thing. take a step back and think of something from a moral perspective before you think about something from a transactional perspective. I think all of this is imbued in your writing, frankly, which I greatly enjoy. So does the ethical winner win more, Frank? Oh, absolutely.

9:51Tell us why. Tell us why. I can't really begin to list the amount of times where when you're comporting yourself, You could use the word ethics. I use the word credibility a lot in the book, together with ethics. And credibility, really, you won't have if you're not comporting yourself with proper ethics. And once you do, it's incredible how often opportunities come to you through those relationships where you built an experience with a person or a group of people that was, you know, rewarding. It doesn't necessarily have to be, again, a short-term gain on every conversation, every transaction.

10:29But when you're thinking long term, as I said earlier, it just suggests an ethical way of hoarding yourself. And it's been so rewarding for me, both in my political career, both in my legal career, business career, and opportunities sometimes present themselves to me and I scratch my head like, wow, how fortunate. And that would never have happened had I acted as sort of, you know, quote unquote cutthroat or, you know, let me try to, you know, scratch my way to deceive someone into a certain conclusion. So, again, it goes back to this long term thinking. And as you said a moment ago, I want to just touch on that.

11:05It's a really great point that we are here with a finite, finite set of time, of course, and our time is limited. And I really remind myself of that almost on a daily basis. I recall my grandfather, who was a really, really serious and steadfast Catholic, he was an usher, fought in a battle of the bulge under patent. And he, you know, he would tell me stories of the battle in the Ardennes Forest. And his son, my uncle, had cystic fibrosis. So he never had a day where he could breathe a clear gasp of air. And both of those men never raised their voice. My uncle never didn't smile, yet he couldn't breathe like we all take for granted.

11:40And I would have to pound his back every night for therapy. But remembering those struggles, remembering that we only have a short time to sort of make our lives sort of allows me to think long term, but do so on a way, bring that back to a daily basis that I try my best. I can't say, Anthony, I got to be honest. As I said earlier, we're emotional beings. And you grew up in an Italian household. I did. And we have a tendency sometimes to lose our tempers a little too quickly. Something we have to work on as a culture. And I do. I know. And I know most do. So we step away from that. But it's really, really, really important that you think this way and act this way.

12:25And then you'll be rewarded in ways that you can't imagine. You know, it's funny. My grandmother used to say to me all the time, very Catholic, went to church on Wednesdays, went to confession on Saturdays. She took the Eucharist on Sundays. She went to communion on Sundays. She said to me, you got to just make the bet if you try to help other people that it was almost like a karmic thing, right? Good things would happen to you. Just make the bet. But I think that what I've learned in my career is that there's more psychic rewards and more wealth in doing that. And I feel like maybe I'm not going to be the richest, but I feel like I've been better for me and my family.

13:06You see it in your kids. The way you write, how many kids do you have, Frank? I had a daughter. Yeah. So I mean, you'll see it in your kids. If you act the right way, because they're really paying attention to more of the way you're acting as opposed to what you're saying, the chances are you're going to give them some good role modeling.

13:53What? The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit Strayer.edu slash Jack Welch MBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Shev and as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street North in Arlington, Virginia. Let's go to being the chief of staff of a person that's got to administer an emerging nation known as New York City, this emerging, developing nation.

14:35What is it like to be the chief of staff of Mayor Adams? It was one of the greatest privileges of my life to be allowed. The mayor allowed me to be a steward and essentially lead New York as his right hand person. And first of all, creating the team originally, because it was different if you come in midstream. I think the experience I had creating the team from day one with appropriate culture. and then and the culture was you know it's funny i talked about ego often in our first day in city hall and we talked about collaborating and starting with a yes and it would be able to do that for the greatest city on earth was an enormous privilege and and i we it was difficult because we came right after covid eight years of you know made de blasio he had he was a good friend but he had different policies and philosophies than we did.

15:31And we wanted New York to be the epicenter once again of culture, capitalism, tourism, and business. And we needed to do this post-COVID. So to see the turnaround, I know people talk about the city, you know, it's a crisis, we need help, but really the crisis was then. January 1, 2022, I recall sitting in city hall with masks on, And we knew that offices were empty. Tourism was down. Storefronts were getting windows were getting smashed. Mental illness was not identified as a proximate cause to crime. We inherited some overzealous bail and discovery laws we had to deal with. And it was a time of uncertainty.

16:13So to be the chief of staff in a new administration at that moment was incredibly, it was a great honor, something I'll never forget. And I'll never stop thanking the mayor for allowing me that opportunity. I was kind of surprised when he asked me, but it was an opportunity I couldn't pass up. But I told him day one, I gave him my resignation date the day I was hired. I said, you know, I can't do this longer than a year, but I'll set it up and I'll do my best. And I think I did. Who's going to be the next mayor, Frank? It'll be Eric Adams. Okay, so tell me how the campaign goes. Make a prediction.

16:50So, you know, without giving away too much of the secret sauce, the mayor's story, incredible story, I believe has not been told. As I said a moment ago, when you look objectively at where the city was January 1, 2022, and you bring and you fast forward to today, as you and I are chatting right now, it is just objectively a fact the city is in a better place. Offices are filled. Tourism is at record highs, something like close to 70 million tourists, a big part of our economy. Restaurants are filled to capacity, just try to get a reservation. You know, I was talking to a friend of mine two days ago at lunch, a lawyer and managing part of one of the large firms.

17:31And he's a he invests on the side in restaurants. And he told me he's investing 10 in New York City. All 10, he told me, are turning a profit. Now, think about that for a moment. Restaurants are a risky business. Most people do it for the love of it. But all 10 of his investments are turning a profit in New York City. And who do you think works in those restaurants? Working class people. Who do you think were the dishwashers? who are the waitstaff, the chefs, the doormen. These are all working class people. So to the extent that they're all doing well, that all trickles down and everyone is doing well.

18:03Crime is on its way to a better place than it was in January 1, 2022. Sure, more to do, but incredible improvements. The stats just are there to prove it. Large infrastructure projects that were stalled on the previous administrations were completed with this administration, such as Kibbs Bay, Life Science Hub, several billion dollar project. Willard's Point, first ever privately funded soccer stadium, 2 ,500 of affordable units, and a complete environmental cleanup and infrastructure buildup. We design and build a Fifth Avenue. We'll have our own Champs -Élysées right here. Since we announced that record$4 billion in real estate transaction, they project multi-billion, I think it's the number, something like$30 billion in 10 years after the completion of economic impact.

18:53And I could go on and on and on of the accomplishments. City of yes, 80 ,000 units, incredible changes to light manufacturing zoning, breakdown of NIMBYism and the sharing of real estate zoning opportunities throughout the city. Difficult things to do, but Mayor Adams had the courage to do it and the results are there. So once that story is being told and not the story that the insiders would like us to hear, like myself, in the echo chamber of politics. I think the people will see that the mayor has done a great job. He's been through, you know, he's been through a lot. He's persevered, and he's persevered because he has made difficult choices.

19:36A couple of examples of those. When he, and it started, I could tell you firsthand experience with the migrants, Anthony, I myself was in the White House several times arguing over a decompression strategy, over executive order, the uses of executive orders to decompress, to not allow violent migrants in at the rate they were coming in, and do not allow them to sort of saturate one or two cities because of their policies that were kind and open to all. But we fell on deaf ears, difficult statements to make against your president of your own party. The mayor also took tremendous heat when he cut agencies because of budgetary concerns.

20:19He's called the PEGs, Program to Eliminate the Gap. You know, we've had one rally after the other in the steps of City Hall. These are unpopular things to do. But what happened as a result of that? New York City's bond ratings improved the first time in many, many, many years because of those difficult, courageous things to do. Much like I applaud Senator Schumer for what he did voting for this previous budget last week, not to shut down the government. Look at the bullet he's thinking. I don't get the Democrats. I don't understand what they want to do. They want to put Trump in a position where he can declare martial law.

20:53You want to freeze the government and give him that kind of power? You know, it's upsetting. And to critique a leader like Senator Schumer for taking such a vote, he did an enormously courageous thing. And I think over time people will realize that. I think he used the phrase in a recent New York Times article, I'll take the bullets. And he's right. So I think the mayor is taking the proverbial bullets himself. Look, I like the mayor. Look, I'm on his donor list. I like the mayor. We've developed a personal rapport. I grew up with Chris and Andrew. So if Andrew's running, it's like, what am I going to do?

21:27I got to help Andrew because I grew up with him. Imagine Frank, one of the friends in the neighborhood. You know what I mean? You know, I'm not as close to Eric as I am to the Cuomo family. And Mario Cuomo, you got to remember something about me. When I was a kid, I needed work. And Mario Cuomo was the governor at the time. You probably remember this. And I was able to get a union job at a time when I needed the money to go to law school. I was getting$16 an hour in the middle of the 1980s. And, you know, and loyalty is loyalty. You know, what the hell are you going to do? It's like when I was working for Jeb Bush, Trump came to me and said, oh, you got to come work for me.

22:06I'm like, I can't come work for you. I'm tight with the Bush family. I'm not going to come work for you. Okay. Well, Bush has got low energy. And then if he falls out of the race, which I'm going to kill him out of the race, you got to come work for me. And then I stupidly, because I'm Gabba Doss, Frank. You know what Gabba Doss is? I know it all too well. Okay. You know, the listeners don't know what Gabba Doss means. It means you have cement. You have rocks in your head. That's an Italian expression. And I'm Gabba Doss. So I went to go work for Trump because I'm gabados. How could you say no to be in the White House?

22:33Come on. I understand. But I mean, you know, but there were friends of mine. Some day there were friends of mine who grew up in Williamsburg that did say no because they knew there were oil and water with the guy and they knew it was going to end poorly, you know. But you're right, you know, and that's exactly what I thought. And that's why I ended up doing it. And by the way, I probably wouldn't be talking to you if I didn't do it, right? So there's a benefit. There was a little bit of a silver lining. So I pulled five things out of your book. I want to say the word, and then I want you to respond to the word.

23:03Give me a sentence or the first thought. So if I say relationships to you, you say what? Oh, I say optimizing. Okay. If I say winning, winning, Frank. I say how do you define and long-term? Okay. You think long-term. Well, you make that evident in the book. I say politics. Do you say politics? Politics, yes. I say that's a tough one, and I have a lot on my mind on that topic, but I'm going to say radical open-mindedness is necessary. Okay. Eric Adams. My dear friend. Okay. If I say the two words, once knew Amsterdam, but they're not that anymore, I say the two words, New York, you say what? Greatest city on earth.

23:55incredible place incredible place aspirate when i hear the words new york i think of the city and the first thing that comes to my mind frank and i know you believe this okay aspiration frank i can find my dream somewhere in the five boroughs of new york am i wrong about you you and i as we chat are proof positive of that you come up no question look Boy, look where you are. Come on. There's no question. Wouldn't happen to any other city, Anthony. And I owe it to New York. And this is why I'm never leaving, man. All right. Well, you've been a terrific guest. I hope I'll get a chance to have a beer with you at some point.

24:32The title of the book is Everyone Wins. It's by the legendary Frank Caron. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on Open Book, brother. Thank you.

24:45So obviously, Frank and I have a lot in common. Italian Catholics, love affair with comic books, share very similar philosophies. I don't know if you caught, Frank actually read my book, Hopping Over the Rabbit Hole, which was very flattering, by the way. It did catch me right. And of course, Frank and I share a mutual friend of Mayor Adams. I like the mayor and I want the city to do better. And I agree that New York is still the place to be and it is getting better, but there's a long way to go. And both Frank and I know that, but I appreciate him coming on today. And you could see from the culture that resonates in the book that he just wrote, why Frank has been so successful.