Still Dreaming of Jeannie with Barbara Eden

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1:05Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci, and this is Open Book, where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word, from authors and historians to figures in entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist. Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're enjoying or how we can do better. You know I can roll with the punches, so let me know.

1:38Anyways, let's get to it.

1:46Today, I can't quite believe who's joining me on Open Book, the Hollywood icon, Barbara Eden. Now, the six-year-old Anthony would have been extremely fanboying right now. And so I'll tell you that 59-year-old Anthony is too. I may have aged, but not my thoughts and thinking and love affair with Miss Eden. Barbara is an incredible person. Not only is she iconic because of her talent and career, but how she coped with the loss of her son and tried to help others experiencing similar struggles. It's truly inspiring. Addiction is a terrible thing and something that's known to many of us. Barbara's strength, compassion, and empathy shines through in this interview.

2:30I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

2:40Joining me today on Open Book, and I'm just thrilled to have her, is Barbara Eden. She's an entertainment icon, legendary actress, but also an amazing author. I would guess about 10 or 11 years ago, she wrote a New York Times bestselling book, Genie Out of the Bottle. It was a phenomenal book. Barbara, I'll tell you this about this book. I was in the middle of a divorce, frankly, and I saw your book in the bookstore and I was living in a hotel. And I said, okay, I'm going to buy this book. I want to learn about Barbara Eden. And I want to embarrass you on my podcast, if you don't mind. You were my first great crush, Miss Eden.

3:15okay good i was watching you on wpix channel 11 in new york i think it was like a five or six o 'clock show in my pajamas and i thought that this was like the greatest show and the slapstick comedy i thought it was amazing but you you live such an a interesting such a wonderful life and i appreciate you coming on today i guess the first question i have is if you could take us back to your early life in arizona before you go to la and then what makes you decide that you're going to go to LA and embark upon this acting career? Well, actually, when I left Arizona, I was two and a half years old. And my family migrated back to San Francisco.

3:56So I was raised in San Francisco. And I studied with Elizabeth Holloway Theater. I studied voice at the Conservatory of Music in San Francisco. And when I was in high school, I started singing with the local dance bands. Of course, I had been studying opera, so it was quite a change for me. And then I started doing theater around the Bay Area, the San Francisco Bay Area. And my teacher of theater brought me into her office one day and said, Barbara. Meanwhile, I was going to City College, San Francisco. But my teacher said, you don't need that. You should go to New York or L.A. Get out of the nest.

4:38Because I had a very loving family. And I didn't really want to leave them. But I did come down to L.A. I stayed with an aunt and uncle for a while. And then I moved to the Hollywood Studio Club. Well, I mean, you're incredibly honest about navigating this world of Hollywood and the trajectory. So you have this studio contract. You're a contract player at 20th Century Fox, right? You're also a chorus girl. Now, people of my generation don't remember Ciro's on Sunset Shirt. But tell us about the legendary Ciro's, the Sunset Shrimp Supper Club. What was that like back in the day? Well, well, I wasn't there very long, Anthony.

5:18They fired me. But but actually, when I first came down to L.A., I was used to working and I got a job in a bank at night. And I was coming home one night to the Hollywood Studio Club. And another girl was coming down the stairs as I was going up. And she said, what are you doing out this late at night? You see, they lock the doors at the studio club. You couldn't get in unless you had a really good reason for staying out all night. And I said, well, I was working. She said, well, what do you do? I said, well, I'm an actress. She said, where are you working? And I said, the bank. She said, what are you doing working in a bank if you're an actress?

5:56And I said, well, it pays the rent, you know. And she said, well, why don't you come up to Ciro's and audition for the chorus line? And I said, I don't dance. I've never studied dance. She said, oh, that's okay. None of us do. So I went up and I did get the job, but I think I lasted about four weeks before they fired me. But it was a fun thing. I mean, you described it as it was a fun time of your life. There was a lot of excitement and a lot of possibility, right? Oh, yes. I mean, you know, when you have Frank Sinatra in the audience or Sammy Davis Jr. or, oh, you name it, Dean Martin in the audience.

6:36Yes, it was. It was. Although I went I went home every night. Well, OK. And OK, but now you've got this career going. You get a couple of decent acting roles and you're now going to screen test for what's going to become I Dream a Genie. Well, Anthony, before I went to Fox, I was doing small parts. And then I did a play, appeared in a play at the Laguna Theater, and I got pretty good reviews. So I got the call from Fox to test. My agent got me the call. And that's how 20th Century Fox happened. They picked up my contract when I was working with Lucille Ball, and that was that. Okay, but if I remember correctly, you didn't necessarily think you were going to get this role because you thought that they were going for somebody that was going to be more Persian in look or darker skin, darker featured.

7:38Am I correct? Do I remember the story properly? Oh, yes. More Middle Eastern. More Middle Eastern. And so you said, okay, I'm going to try out for this, but I really feel that this is going to be an unlikely outcome for me, right? And so take us through what happens. Well, actually, Anthony, I was, at that time, I'd left 20th Century Flux and I was pretty well known. And I was married to Michael Lanzara, who was co-cheese on The Broken Arrow. And I was reading the variety and Hollywood Reporter and big articles about Sidney Sheldon and his new project. And they were testing, but they were testing every Middle Eastern beauty contest winner in the world.

8:18And I thought, well, that's not for me. And then my agent sent me a script about four weeks later. I read it. I recognized what it was immediately. And he called me and said, well, did you like the script? And I said, yeah, I think it's wonderful. I like the part. And he said, well, that's good because they want you. I said, what? I said, Wilt, Wilt Melnick was my agent. I said, do they know what I look like? He said, I think they do, because you just, the only way you can get the part is to go down and have tea with Sidney Sheldon at the Beverly Hills Hotel. So I did. I went down and I had tea with Sidney and we talked and you talked about, I think probably he knew writers I'd worked with.

9:02I'm not sure, but I think that's it because I got the part. I didn't test. I didn't do anything. I just got it. Okay. So now, but you have this, this is a fascinating time because TV is going through a transition, right? We're moving out of the Lucille Ball era. You've got, you're competing against Bewitched. You have other situational comedies going on, but there's a real spirit of optimism in the country. We have the space program. And Mr. Sheldon, as you point out in your book, he's a phenomenal writer. He has a great turn of phrase. He understands slaps can stick comedy, but also just general plot sequences that can make people laugh.

9:40And now you get started. You're in black and white in the beginning. Tell us a little bit about the beginning days of Well, we were in black and white because I was pregnant. And I guess they thought I'd die or something having a baby. You know, I discovered I was pregnant the day the show was picked up by NBC. And I called Sidney immediately and said, I have to talk to you. And he said, all right, I'll see you tomorrow. I said, no, no, no, I have to talk to you right now. So he was having dinner with another writer, and I went over to the house, and Sidney took me into his office and said, all right, you're pregnant.

10:23And I said, yes, and I can't do your show. I'm so sorry. I was so thrilled. We had been trying to have a baby, and finally I was pregnant. And he was parchment white when I said this. And he said, oh, well, well, well, don't worry. Don't worry. Well, I'll get back to you like that. And I went home and I thought that was the end of it. But God bless him. He really rallied the troops. And I did the first 13 shows and then they took time off and we did it in color. And of course, you know, you got shot from certain angles. So, you know, you didn't look pregnant in the show. Oh, Anthony, I look like a walking tent.

11:05No, I had so many scarves and things on. You know what I love about beautiful women, if you don't mind me just interjecting? Okay, they always are very hard on themselves. You know that you were arguably the most beautiful woman in the 1960s. You had this iconic show. You had this very famous thing. And I have a friend of mine exactly my age. I said, you know, I'm very lucky today. I'm going to get the opportunity to interview Barbara Eden. And you know what he said to me? He goes, Barbara Eden, I think she's the first person whose belly button I saw. I said, actually, no. I said, no, they didn't show her belly button.

11:39He goes, no way. They definitely showed her belly button. I said, no, you weren't watching the show carefully enough. Tell us about the belly button controversy. It seems crazy working back, right? Anthony, it peaked out every once in a while. Oh, it did. Okay, so maybe he is right. I'll have to go back and tell him that you told me that. It did, despite the censors, right? It did peak out once in a while. Well, you know how that all started. Mike Conley, who was a writer for The Hollywood Reporter, used to come down on the set and he'd say, I don't believe you have one. And I'd say Nicola Peek, which was very inexpensive at that time.

12:11And he kept writing about it. And then it got caught, you know, caught up by stringers across the country. And, you know, Anthony, some women are known for their body. Some women are known for their great legs. I have a navel. belly button. Can you imagine? But it's amazing that it's 55, you know, ish years later. We're still talking about your belly button, but the outfit. Tell us about the outfit. When you got to costume and they were ready to put you in your gear to play genie, what were your thoughts about the outfit? Oh, I thought it was lovely. We had a wonderful designer, and I'm trying to think of her name right now.

12:55She had worked with me before at MGM when I did The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm. And I was so lucky that Sydney hired her. It was Gwen Wakeling, actually, was the designer. And she asked me, what's your favorite color? And I said, oh, pink. At that time, pink was what I was thinking about. And so she did that. She used the color pink and did a beautiful job. I was very comfortable in it, even though being active as Jeannie, I ripped a lot of trousers. I love this story. There's a picture of you in the book prior to Jeannie. This is you with the king of rock and roll, Elvis Presley. Ah, yes.

13:38And you write about him in this book. And one of the things that you say, which of course I remember and I laughed out loud, that he had a magnetism about him, but you kept to your marriage vows. I literally think that's the quote in the book. I've got to go look and find it. Yes, as well. So tell us about, before we get to Larry Hagman, I want to hear about Elvis, the king of rock and roll. What was he like, Bart? Oh, he, what? He was a gentleman, first of all. He was well brought up. He was the only actor I have ever worked with. But the minute I came on the set, he got me a chair. See, you remember those simple things, don't you?

14:12The small things that people do? indeed. And lovely, just lovely. He had his guitar. He had a friend with him playing the guitar. He said it was his cousin. And I didn't know until years later that it wasn't his cousin. But his father was there. And in between shots, as far as when you do a feature film, the time between shots is quite long. They wait for the sun to come up. They wait for it to go down. They wait, you know, with wonderful results, of course. So in between, Elvis would play his guitar and sing. And it was just a wonderful, wonderful time with him. He was a huge fan of my husband's, by the way.

14:56He watched The Broken Arrow. He told me, and I realized later when I was also headlining in Vegas, what he meant. You just don't go out of your hotel room. You stay in it. And that's what he did. And he said that Michael was his savior. And then he asked me about Hollywood marriages and how did we get along? How did we deal with it? And I told him, I said, you know, it's our work. It's what most people go to an office every day. We have a work ethic and we do work, both of us. And we understand that. It's not la-la land to us. Right. Amen. And he said, well, I'm a little worried because I've met this girl in Germany and I really like her a lot, but I'm afraid about bringing her back over here and she can take the pressure.

15:49And I said, well, if you love her and you can work it out, that's great. But, you know, Anthony, I didn't know how young she was. Oh, yeah, it was very famous. He meets her. She's the daughter of a military vet. And, you know, she's just starting to get mature. We'll say she's a teenager, 16 or 17 when he first meets her. She was beautiful. Yeah. Listen, I mean, I maintain this. You guys never lose your beauty, Barbara. You never, once you have it and you've been blessed with it, you keep it forever. Well, she certainly did. I was with her a few months ago in Memphis for one of the many things they have for Elvis.

16:32And it was the first time I'd ever met her. And when I walked into the room, I said, yeah, I know you don't know me, but I know you and I knew you before you ever came to this country. So we had a good laugh about that. Such a great story. So, all right. So I want to transition from Elvis to Larry Hagman. You write about him. You're, you know, he was, he could be difficult on set, of course, but you had an unbelievable chemistry between you and Larry. It was a huge part of the show. And obviously you had such great fondness for him and you loved working with him. Tell us a little bit about Larry Hagman.

17:08Larry was one of the most talented men I've worked with. And we seemed to be on the same wavelength when we acted. There was no acting. We were there. Some parts are very difficult to play with. Some partners in your scenes are difficult to connect with. Larry never was. He's wonderful, wonderful. And I will say this. He was a problem for a lot of people, but not for me. He was my good friend. And it was a challenge working with him because the people around him were a little skittish. I'll give you one good example. I don't know if it was in the book or not. But we had a group of nuns come and visit on the set.

17:54When I saw them, I took a deep breath and I knew something was going to happen. because Larry grabbed the axe you have for the firefighters on the set and began jumping around and hacking the floor with it. And yes, and saying every foul word he knew. Every single one. I turned around and went into my dressing room because these were not just nuns in street garb. They were in full array. I mean, it was old school. We were talking about the 1960s. 1960s. Needless to say, we didn't have any guests after that. Yeah. Well, he but he took the art seriously, though. Right. I mean, he was he was locked in.

18:36And obviously, yes, charismatic, really good looking man and very funny. You had a great supporting cast. Right. Oh, my gosh. Yes. And later years, I was I appeared in Australia with him. I went to Germany and was appeared with him. He he's he was wonderful, wonderful actor. Let's talk a little bit about Bill Daly. I know you were close to Bill. Oh, Bill was more fun. He was, what you saw on the screen was exactly what he was. And, and they, they did very well together, Bill and Larry. They worked well together. What can I say about Bill other than he was divine? He was, um, he was a little Dickens really.

19:20Yeah. Well, listen, I, I, uh, I watched a few of your interviews with Bill and Larry over the years. I think you were interviewed by an Australian media network a few years back. And the chemistry that you guys share in the 1960s, you shared together forever. So it's just an interesting linkage of your personality. It's almost like a weird spirituality to it that you guys were so, so connected. When you read in the script, and I know Larry felt the same way playing Tony Nelson, when you read in the script that Jeannie was going to get married to Major Anthony Nelson. Tell us about your reaction to that.

19:55Tell us the thoughts there. I thought it was the worst decision NBC made. It just wasn't right. He was a human. I was not a human. I was not playing a human. Jeannie was an entity. And to marry them, you can't do that. And besides that, it spoiled all the comedy because he knew she wasn't human. She didn't think there were any barriers, you know, but it had a good run. It had five years. I think it killed the show. Listen, it was one of the great all-time shows and I think it caused the show to lose that fizzle and I know you probably will remember the Civil Shepherd and Bruce Willis in the show Moonlighting.

20:40They had that sexual energy and that tension between them and then once it went over the cliff into a romance that show also fizzled. Some of that kept the show going. And obviously the both of you had the correct instincts on that. So I want to, I want to turn to your book as I want to, I just set the scene for me. Your book was very personal for me. Again, I was going through a divorce and when I was reading the book, you know, unfortunately for my family, we have alcoholism in our family. We have drug addiction. You know, perhaps most families have this, you know, it's a good percentage of the population that have these issues.

21:15and you wrote a beautiful story about your life, but it was very genuine. It was very authentic. And I just have to tell you that, you know, I gave the book to my mom, who's now 86. So she was probably 75 or 74 at the time. And the empathy and the compassion that you expressed in the book. And of course, we learn about your son's death, your son, Matthew. Tell us a little bit about Matthew. Tell us a little bit why you were compelled to write about it. And I guess the message for me, Barbara, is that your writing about it was so helpful probably to so many people, including my family. You know, and I just want, I'm sure you're aware of it, but I just want to say that to you in terms of it was important for the Scaramucci's, let's put it that way.

21:58You know, we read it and have a great amount of empathy, having dealt with many situations similar to it. Well, I appreciate hearing that because that's the only reason I put it in the book. And mainly because I think so many people have this illness in their family, and they are ashamed to talk about it. And the only way I really helped Matthew and helped myself was being open about the condition and talking. And I was so surprised at so much help that I received. So many people opened up to me and helped me and took me to AA meetings, took me to Al-Anon meetings, found the right doctors, found the right hospitals, which unfortunately you need to know.

22:44Matthew was, oh gosh, the gentle giant. He was six foot four like his daddy. He was very sweet, kind, empathetic, not an angry young man at all, but got cut up in that era, I think, with, you know, high school, high school. We didn't even know high school. And I would like people to know that they should be alert. You know, if you're in a family that you're not used to drugs or alcohol or, you know, and you don't know the signs, but there are definite signs. And if you know the right people and you're open about it, you can get a lot of help. And some people, it really, you have a resolution to it.

23:30Well, you know, I'll share this with you. My older brother, like your son started with cocaine in, I guess he was 16 or 17. Unfortunately, he has cycled in and out of that addiction over the last 40 years. He's healthy now. He's sober right now. Thank God. And I pray for him every day. I guess what I would say to you, and I know you know this, but a lot of people don't know this, which is why it's important for books like yours to be written and read, is that these are illnesses. And if I had something wrong with my heart or had something wrong with my liver. We medicate that. There's no social stigma.

24:07But the illness of addiction, sometimes people think it's a just a behavioral issue. Well, of course, there's elements of that. But there's also a chemical issue related to this as well, where some people can try a drug and they have it one time or two times and they drop it and another person can try it. And then it's a lifetime addiction. And you write so beautifully about him. I just wanted you to know that it touched many people. When I had reached out, and I'll explain this story. I think you'll get a kick out of this. I was looking for something to watch. I have a nine and a six-year-old at home, and I turned to them.

24:41I said, okay, watch this and tell me if you like this. And it was the first I Dream of Jeannie episode. 15 episodes later, I said to my kids, I said, we're going to buy this Jeannie bottle. Okay, we'll bring the Jeannie bottle home. And so I looked up on the web, I think Mario does these genie bottles for you. And so I bought a genie bottle off the web. He then contacted me and said, oh, by the way, Barbara and I like you. You're like one of the few people in the Trump administration we thought was actually normal. And I laughed. And then I said, well, listen, I said, I am very fond of her for so many different reasons, but I read her book 10, 11 years ago, and I would love to get are on the podcast.

25:23And so my mom is listening, my family's listening, you know, you are a huge role model and an inspiration for so many people. I guess I would ask you this question, I hope you don't mind me asking this, for families that have addiction issues, and you talk about recognizing the behavior and so forth, what are some things that you would say to families, you know, because again, Matthew, he had some success in rehab. He was getting married. Tell us some of the reflections, if you don't mind, and like some of the warning things that you think about or you would share with somebody. Well, actually, I had remarried and Matthew went to live with his daddy.