Bronx Zoo

0:15Hi, I'm Ryan Davis. And I'm Kiernan Schmidt. And this is Out of Office, a travel podcast. This he taken?

0:23Kiernan:Hey, Kiernan. Hello, Ryan. How are you? You know, I'm feeling good. Just got back from the trip to New York with the kids. I'm just bubbling over with love for the Big Apple. You know, we were talking about those nostalgia vibes we get. I mean, you know, every restaurant I loved was put out of business by COVID, but I still feel at home in New York. Is Charlie becoming a New Yorker? I'll, you know, I have to say, I kind of conceived that visiting New York with a six-year-old and a four-year-old would be very hard because, you know, just the crowds and the smells and, you know, it's like, don't touch that.

1:02Kiernan:Don't touch that. Don't smell that. Don't talk to that person. Children live in New York though. They do. Yeah. But, you know, I think the only people that have children are the like billionaires and, you know, Tina Fey has observed that usually it's one child and their best friend is the doorman. Yes, that is the New York childhood that I envision. What I have actually found is that New York is such a sensory overload that that is what kids want. Like kids always want new and interesting things and they don't want to be bored and they're looking and they're looking and they're smelling and they're talking.

1:38Kiernan:And that New York delivers that in spades. So, you know, you put them on a subway for an hour there in heaven. Yeah. I mean, the subway is a good place to see all of the world, you know, and it's very funny. We actually. So, I mean, we'll do a future episode about like visiting New York with kids. But, and then today's topic, by the way, is going to be Bronx Zoo. So this was like, this was maybe the big, the big tentpole attraction I wanted to be sure we had hit because it had been such a long time since I'd been to the Bronx Zoo. And we had such a great time there. And I was such an enthusiast.

2:13Kiernan:I was like, I want to do this episode right away. But on the drive out, do you know the Little Red Lighthouse and the Great Gray Bridge? It's like a classic old children's book. I do not know it. No. So this is it was it was published in 1942. And it's the story of this little red lighthouse that is that it's right on the Hudson and it's directly under today the George Washington Bridge. And this was like this teeny lighthouse that would warn boats going up and down the river. Don't come over here because you're too close to the shore. And then they built the George Washington Bridge above it and they've kept the lighthouse there.

2:52Kiernan:And it's the story of the lighthouse being threatened by the giant bridge. And then they work together, yada, yada. It's a great, it's, it's a fun and it's a fun story. And it's fun to see this little red lighthouse. And I had gone there, you know, when I lived in New York and we read this book to the kids. So I was like, let's go visit the little red lighthouse. So Catherine finds this like a travel blog to tell us how to get there. And it's describing this path. That's like, you go under three highways and then you're going to go on this urine soaked path that's like an encampment underneath the highway.

3:25Kiernan:And sure enough, it was like the most neglected area of New York. I feel like the government has not been in to clean up this area in like 10 years. It is, you know, we're trying to lead the kids to this like charming childhood lighthouse to show them that it's a real thing right under the bridge, which is so cool right on the shore and were literally saying like, don't touch anything on the sidewalk because there's like discarded needles all over the place and blown out streetlights. It was really quite the scene, but it was a beautiful day and sunny. So I didn't feel threatened or anything. It was fine.

4:02Kiernan:But just, you know, it's just another thing to add to Zoran Mondomini's to-do list. I always think that the needles on the ground in a beautiful day, they sparkle, you know, that gives New York some of its shine. Yeah, it's a great viewpoint. You're always looking on the bright side. Just wear shoes. Always wear shoes in New York. That's important. I never stepped out of my house in sandals or flip-flops. Just the dirt accumulation on your feet is just incredible. And you look down and there's somehow a rat just nibbling on your toe. You know, these people are crazy. Let's not get into the wildlife yet.

4:39Kiernan:The Bronx Zoo episode there. Yes, yes. So that's how I'm feeling. How are you, Ryan? And let's just jump right into the Judy alert, the feature where we reassure Ryan's mother. You know, Ryan reaches out to Judy, what, two, three times a year to give an update on where she is. And she worries. Oh, how she worries that Ryan's putting himself in dangerous situations. And so, Ryan, where are you right now? I am safely in my apartment in Bogota. You've been staying close to Bogota lately. I have been. It's nice. I feel settled. And I'm sure Judy does, too. Yeah, well, you know what, though? They just started opening up flights to Caracas out of the States.

5:20Kiernan:Are you going to Caracas? If I go to Caracas, I'll only talk about it afterwards. Are you actually considering Caracas? This might be the moment, Tiernan. This might be the moment. I think this is a bad idea. It might be a bad idea. I think this is a very bad idea. Or it might be a really good episode about what happens to me in Caracas. Oh, why don't you, you know what? Why don't you also just do a connector, get head over to Tehran while you're at it? I don't think that's the same thing, but that war is over. As you know, it's a, we want it and it's, everything's great. I don't Ryan, we are still getting negative reviews from conservatives, even though we are a big tent podcast.

6:01Kiernan:Hey, do you see, speaking of, you know, Ryan and I always describe ourselves as Romney Democrats. We're middle of the road. We're classic Obama guys, which at this point is so, I mean, That's just a different era. We describe ourselves as Romney, Democrats, and Rye. Did you see Romney's, the great Mitt Romney is coming to give a speech at Harvard Business School at commencement? Oh, are you going to get to see it? I didn't even think about it. It's not like a ticket that I seek out, but I am a Mitt fan. We got to get Mitt on the show. He could probably do a tour of Salt Lake City for us. I, I, well, he also, you may remember when I toured the, the central Mormon complex in Salt Lake City, I was the, my tour guide was a Romney who's like one, her dad is Mitt's cousin.

6:51But they don't let you into that temple, right? You can just see the outside of it.

6:55Kiernan:You don't get to go, but they have a, you know, they have an outside plaza area and they, they do have like an internal area they let you in, but no, you don't go into the sanctuary proper. Really funny. When I was in Barcelona recently and did the Sagrada again, there were this couple, this Mormon couple, and they were talking about Salt Lake City. And I'm like, oh, I've always wanted to go and tour the Mormon temple. Like, you can't, you can't, you can't do it. I thought it was very, very funny. No, you're not allowed. You're not allowed. I wonder, it's only a matter of time. Have you seen the, boy, you know, these people who hate our A block where we just chat, they're really going to hate this because it's not travel related.

7:33Kiernan:But have you been getting served up the latest influencer trend where they try to run as far as they can into a Scientology complex? Yes, it's interesting. They don't really get to see anything interesting, though. It's only hallways. No. I mean, I, you know, I would I'd be fascinated if they made it into some sort of sanctuary. I mean, the most interesting thing is, you know, in every single Scientology church is an office that's waiting for L. Ron Hubbard to return. So L. Ron Hubbard has offices. Is that a real thing? That's a real thing. He's got a WeWork all around the world ready for him to go.

8:08Kiernan:Boy, Ryan, that sounds like that. I was actually reading about L. Ron Hubbard the other day. And I have to say, it really reminded me of you in a lot of ways, Ryan, and not your best traits, I have to admit. I think I would have been a pretty good preacher, I have to say. Yes, I mean, I'm sure both you and I occasionally think, boy, wouldn't it have been easier to be a priest? You get your housing, you get your flock, you don't have to worry about what you wear. It's just black and a collar every day. What would your pope name be? oh that's a that's a good question i mean i'd like the patrick pope patrick i love alliterative names yeah pope patrick is is nice patrick plus patrick's like your butt i mean pope patrick that actually feels kind of like leo's vibes you know you feel like you could sit down and hang out with pope patrick yeah you could definitely hang out with leo he's a he's a another podcast guest we gotta get on Pope Leo's guide to visiting the Sistine Chapel.

9:08No, to talk about Pope Leo Chicago, you know, is really.

9:11Kiernan:Well, that surely is an episode we're going to have to do, because I think as people dig into his biography further, we'll actually get places you can visit. And we know they just recently purchased his childhood home, and I'm sure that's going to be preserved. Chicago and Peru. That would be an interesting episode. I like it very much. Well, I think I think we've we've dawdled enough. We should we should head over to the Bronx Zoo.

9:38Kiernan:Oh, sorry. The elephant came out early. Tell the cabin crew. Flight attendants, prepare for takeoff, please. All right, Ryan, we're here. We're talking Bronx. Were you impressed by my elephant? It came across as sort of a screech on the microphone. Oh, maybe I'll cut it out, in which case this will be confusing to folks. Um, well, Ryan, I, you know, zoos, I, I mean, we're 225 episodes into this baby and I, we have not dug deep into zoos. No, we haven't. Um, I guess zoos are pretty controversial. Like, uh, for sure. I I'm curious, what is your, we don't have to, this is not a philosophy of zoos episode, though.

10:23Kiernan:I would like to do that at some point. And I'd love to bring a guest or two on to talk sense to us about the positive sides and the negative sides. I think like anything, my take is I think zoos are complex and I have complex feelings about them. I do think the conservation work of zoos and the scientific work that goes on at zoos is very valuable. And I have to say, I greatly enjoyed my visit to the Bronx Zoo. So that's where I am on zoos right now. However, when I go to a city and they have a zoo, it is not a top attraction for me to get to. Yeah, the last zoo that I went to was in Guadalajara and it was amazing.

11:07It was huge. I was there for the whole day. I had a great time. It was like half zoo, half like a safari ride. Interesting. So, you know, I understand that zoos are problematic, but I think, you know, I have so many memories as a kid of going to the zoo, my little zoo in Salisbury and just having a great time. So it'd be tough to get rid of zoos entirely, I think.

11:30Kiernan:Yeah, I agree. And how about the Bronx Zoo? When was, have you been to the Bronx Zoo? I have been to the Bronx Zoo one time. It was one of my COVID outings. Oh, of course. A great place to go for COVID. Yeah. Well, to avoid COVID, I should say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless you were, you know, dining on their pangolin or something. Well, I have this memory because it was like, it was cold. So it must have been like early COVID. And the giraffes had to be inside. And the giraffes inside were in this like big gymnasium. And then the walls of the gymnasium are painted like the, you know, African, you know, what do you call it?

12:11The landscape there. painted like the the you know the desert in africa and it's it's oh interesting okay mural and the uh the giraffes just stood by the wall and were just licking the fake trees on the

12:25Kiernan:mural and it was oh i don't like that it was one of the most depressing things i've that was at the bronx that you saw that yeah yeah when they when they have when they have to take the when they're inside yeah so we we uh we did see them inside because it was a cool day but they had plentiful feed buckets. So they were, they were mostly concentrated on that. I did think the enclosure inside looked a little bit small. Yeah. And it was grim. That was my, that was, but you know, overall I thought the zoo was cool. But the memory of the giraffes licking the fake, fake tree on the mural. That's not, that's not a positive place to start it off.

13:04Kiernan:Well, the, the, just to give a little of the kind of the fast facts background on, on the Bronx Zoo. I mean, it is, first of all, it's just incredible that this enormous zoo is inside New York City. It's 265 acres large, which is pretty darn big. And I have to say, it was hard to cover. We spent about four hours there and we probably saw, I would say, about half of what there was. It could certainly substantiate out a full day there. And I actually would recommend a full day if you're going, especially with older kids, you know, four-year-olds, you're, you have to get out after about four hours, I would say, but six, seven, eight, I would recommend try to book the whole day.

13:49Kiernan:And that really gets the most out of your ticket because it's not a super cheap place though. It's affordable. I mean, for the four of us, I think with parking, it was about$140 to go for the day, but you know, it's your entire day's entertainment. That's like half one Broadway show ticket at this point. Yeah, that's that's not bad for such a long, a long day of entertainment. And I imagine you really get your steps in. uh i i'm i'm not one who measures my steps but yeah we were very tired by by the end of the day we did a lot of walking and it is a great to your point about why it was a good uh space for uh uh visiting with covid uh just during the covid period there's a lot of outdoor activities to see but plenty of internal uh uh houses where the there's like a bird house and a reptile house There's a Madagascar exhibit that's all inside.

14:38Kiernan:So there's a lot of environments that they create inside areas. So a fair amount of it still has to be inside. Did you go inside during that COVID visit? Yeah, we went inside because it was still kind of like the winter. So a lot of the stuff was inside. But I do remember doing a very cold nature trek, which is like this, like, it's like wooden, wooden, like, bridges built around. We didn't do that, but I saw people doing that. You were on like the, the, like the wooden trail platform. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That seemed a little kitschy to me. I'm sure the kids would have liked it, but we had animals to say.

15:16That's fair. You can see him from the, from different avenues there, but yeah. So no, it's, it is, it is a huge zoo. And I lived in New York for 24 years and I only went once, which is because it's kind of like far away.

15:29Kiernan:It is, it's, it's, it is, it is certainly far away. And this is another recommendation if you're thinking to visit is I we drove down to New York. So I had my car in Brooklyn and it was absolutely the right decision to drive to the Bronx. So there's two major parking locks there. The day we were there, plentiful parking. There are two ways to get there on the subway. But as Ryan is saying, you're you're in for a long journey there. So especially if you're going with children, it's going to it's going to be a while. Um, so you could take either the two or the five subway to the following stops, West Farm Square, East Tremont or East 180th street, um, Pelham Parkway station.

16:14Kiernan:These are the, these are the stops you could get to. And then of course, from there, you have to get to the zoo itself, which is not super far, but I have to say, I recommend driving or, or Ubering, um, even with traffic around New York, because it is 265 acres, it's far. I mean, it is easy to get to from major thoroughfares, but it is its own thing up there in the Bronx and has a large space of its own. It has 11 ,000 animals in total on it, Ryan. So a real, I mean, this is the part of the zoo that I think is such a positive experience for kids is my kids are just getting to the point where they're starting to understand the diversity of the animal world, you know, that it's not just pigs and chickens and what they see on farm visits, that there's this enormous world of beautiful creatures out there.

17:04Kiernan:Like Charlie's school, they did a huge bird unit and he became very obsessed with birds of prey. And, you know, this is where they could come and really let their imaginations go. They see the vibrant colors of these animals. They learn about what makes them special, how they've evolved in strange and interesting ways and what needs to be done to protect them. Do they have those cool indoor bird houses you go into and there's birds flying all around? Most of them. Okay. So I personally feel very freaked out when there's not like some sort of barrier, but there's a mix of no barrier and sort of a net barrier.

17:41Kiernan:And you know, the heat changes and the type of foliage changes within them. But going into the world of birds, I think they call it sort of the birdhouse was an awesome experience. I mean, they were so beautiful and everything from toucans to just these enormous vultures and just every bird you could imagine is in there. And many of them are in their sort of mix. So you can do kind of birdwatching, trying to match to, oh, do you see this one? Do you see this one? Oh, we haven't seen this one. Let's try to spot it in the corner there. So, you know, these are all species you'd never be able to see without a a 20 hour flight across the world.

18:18Yeah. Yeah. You'd have to come down to Columbia, the most bird diverse country in the world.

18:24Kiernan:Is that, is it what like from an animal perspective? From a bird, from a bird diversity, a bird diversity. Are you doing a lot of birding down there? It's hard not to, cause there's just birds everywhere. I do feel like the older I get, the more I'm like a birder, you know, like I just see a bird. There is some natural instinct that kicks in. once you get over 40 that you do start to look at birds with more respect. Speaking of which, just today, a bird pooped on my phone. Was it a beautiful, like, exotic bird? I didn't know. I didn't see the bird that did it. It wasn't at the Bronx Zoo. So probably, by the way, one of those exotic birds had, like, gotten past the net and was, like, on the area.

19:06Kiernan:And I, like, my instinct, my reaction is as if, like, this is a dinosaur. This is a violent dinosaur. They're going to peck my children's eyes out, grab them and keep them away. So I give wide berth to birds. I don't feel like the birds are the dangerous animals at the zoo typically. And we're going to get to some interesting dangerous animals. All right. I like dangerous animals. I guess a big part of this conservation message that the zoo certainly pushes as you visit all around. It does go back to its founding. So it opened to the public in 1899. And there's a historic figure who I want to mention here, and he's got a tie to my favorite president and yours, Theodore Roosevelt's.

19:51Kiernan:That's the most important thing here. The Bronx Zoo director from 1896 on, as they were sort of building it and conceiving it, was a man named William Temple Hornaday. which Hornaday, that's almost like a Roald Dahl name for a zookeeper, I feel like. It makes me think of hornbills, of rhino horns. I love William Temple Hornaday. And he was actually a taxidermist at the Smithsonian when he was approached to come and take on the creation of the Bronx Zoo. And it really was conceived as a different type of zoo where they didn't want to put everything in bare metal cages and cement boxes, but they wanted to try to recreate the landscape, the natural landscape that animals were being imported from.

20:43Kiernan:And a big driving force for him in the early days was he saw that the American bison out West was dying off because of over hunting. And he was a hunter. And this is where it crosses with Theodore Roosevelt. You know, A lot of the great early conservationists were hunters, which seems like such an odd dichotomy to us today. But yet they were the ones who spent enormous amounts of time in nature. And even though they were at fault for some of these species heading towards extinction, they also were some of the most passionate about preserving species and nature once they came to discover what was happening.

21:26Kiernan:And sure enough, Hornaday and TR were both part of a group that was founded in 1905 called the American Bison Society. And I just want to note, TR was the honorary president, which, I mean, that's the thing to be. You want to be an honorary president. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I love this era of hunting that was so tied to conservation because I feel like that is not the vibe you get these days. No, that's right. And so this American Bison Society worked with the Bronx Zoo in order to breed bison and then reintroduce them to the West. And in 1907, they successfully shipped and let loose 15 bison into a game preserve in Oklahoma.

22:12Kiernan:And this is the first reintroduction in North America of animals that were endangered and then, you know, a breeding program and then sent back out. And it's considered a great success, a historic success. And that was something that the Bronx Zoo was a great leader in. And so, you know, we can thank them for the bison that we still have today. Thanks, guys. And they have a lot of different stories about saving endangered toads, which again, like just recently, it was there's a toad called the Kahansi spray toad that was virtually wiped out in 2009. It's because it lives in Tanzania and there was this big dam that was being built that was destroying their habitat.

23:02Kiernan:And the Bronx Zoo was a leader in breeding them in captivity and reintroducing them. And they're currently working on a number of species heading to extinction to try to recreate these successes. That's interesting that I don't know anything about their current work. we should reach out to the zoo, get somebody. I tell you what, if you'd be interested in that, shoot us a note at outofoffice at gmail.com and let us know. Again, I'm kind of hot on zoos right now. So if there's a zoo topic you want, we can get great guests on the show and I'd be interested in digging. And I agree with you, Ryan, the ongoing, the current conservation work would be really interesting to hear about.

23:48Definitely.