New York Times Editor Stephen Hiltner on the "52 Places to Go in 2026"

0:25Hi, I'm Ryan Davis. You know, at least here in New England, it's cold, it's snowy, it can be depressing. But here on Out of Office, these are like some of my favorite episodes of the year, the Christmas Spectacular and another yearly tradition at this point, which is having someone from the New York Times come over and talk about their new 52 places list. We love the 52 places to go in the New York Times. I think it's the definitive places to go list. You know, other places release them every year. this is the one I think they've got it. The New York Times knows what's going on. They're just so creative in their choices.

1:03I'm such a big fan of it. I always hold my breath every year. Did they have a good experience? Are they going to come back? But I'm happy to say we got Stephen Hiltner back this year, who's sort of the man behind the list. And he takes us deep into the details. Now, before we get into that, though, I have no idea where you are. You might be somewhere on the list. So we should do the Judy alert so that your mom, who I know doesn't hear from you often enough, knows that you're safe. So where are you? My poor mom. This has been a stressful week and a half for her because I was in Madrid a few days ago and I left Madrid by train on the same day that that terrible train accident happened.

1:47The derailment. Yeah. Yeah. So I got to my destination in France and I went to bed and then my poor mom calls me like eight times. Oh my God. You know, and I'm not picking up the phone because I don't pick up the phone. I don't have notifications on. And who knows what she's like, I didn't sleep well that night, Ryan. Oh, poor thing. And I'm like, I was asleep. For what it's worth. So the initial report had 21 people dead. And I thought, well, the likelihood that Ryan's one of those 21, I don't know. And I thought about texting you. And then I was like, well, what am I going to do at this point?

2:21You know, it's either done or it's not. So he'll let me know eventually, or he won't. Right. This is how my mom should, you know, there's nothing we can do at that point. Exactly. And you know, I've got another co-host for the show lined up. My friend Brian. You tell me this all the time. He's been trying to get in on this baby for years. And so... I've got another co-host lined up myself. Oh, yeah. Who is that? Oh, yeah. Who is that? I am TBD. Well, to answer your question, I am in Nice, France. Oh, so you've already gone. You went to Montpellier. then at this point. I did. What did you think?

2:55Did it live up to my description? I thought it was a lovely town. It's fine. It's fine. It had a great cathedral and it was nice to walk around and it was good to get some non-tapas, I have to tell you. You know I was Tapatidious after a while. So I've just been eating as many steak treats. Would you say that you were sort of tapat out? I was tapat. Oh, that's another one. We could have a whole series of t-shirts top of top of tedious t-shirts um i uh so uh so you're in uh did you go to the beach uh no no i mean i i literally just i just got in and no i mean in montpellier no i did it's cold well you could still go walk on the beach i i did a beach town where it gets cold i've been on the beach like the beach this whole vacation like the chilly spain beach and Now the chilly French vacation vacation.

3:52I could, I could swear. You told me you were working all the time. This working cation. Okay. All right. But you know what I'm going to see? This is what the big man's up to. You know, I'm going to see tomorrow morning, which I'm super excited about. One of the oldest archeological spots in humanity, this fire that was started 400 ,000 years ago. It's it went out. Don't worry. I was, Is my next question still going? That would be incredible. No, this has gone out, but it is one of the oldest sites of prehistoric man. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's old, right? Yeah, that sounds pretty old.

4:32I was thinking when you first described it, remember there's that pit of hell in Turkmenistan where it's tapped into a natural gas pool, and so it's just perpetually burning down in this hole? Pretty soon, our passports are only going to get us into Kirkmanistan. It's bleak. It's bleak. I did wonder whether we should start talking about Greenland tourism, but I think it's a little too early. We got to see how that shakes out first. Yeah, let's not talk about that. All right. So before we get into the interview with Stephen Hiltner, I just thought you and I, we've both thoroughly reviewed the list.

5:06Obviously, we're going to dive into some of the trends and themes on the list with Stephen. But you and I had a couple that sparked our imagination. a bit. So I thought maybe, you know, if you want to pick two or three, I'll pick two or three that we thought were cool finds on this year, 52 places. Yeah. And, you know, I went out to that cool neighborhood in Barcelona the day that I read the 52 places. Oh, amazing. Did you do it because of 52 or you were? I did. I did. I went because of 52. I went to one of the restaurants. They mentioned two restaurants. I went to one of them and I told the waiter, I read about you in the New York Times today and he had no idea what I was talking about.

5:45He was like, the New York Times? And I'm like, yeah, it's a big paper. So I hadn't reached the neighborhood yet. They're one of the coolest places. I wanted to pick two things off the list. One for each half of my year. My first half of the year, I'm going to be in South America, the second half in Europe. So for the South American pick, I want to go... What's your year going to be? you're currently in Europe you're going back to Europe in the second half of 2026? Yeah at the end this is the big move you're talking about you're going to become an Austrian I'm going to be Austrian there's many famous Austrians I don't want to name them I can only think of one you know the sound of music Von Trapp family that's who I was thinking of that's more your style where I want to go on the list Pio Astaza Watershed.

6:43This looks gorgeous. Ecuador has a lot of beautiful outdoor activities that I haven't done. And this, it seems really feasible that I could figure out a way to get here in the first half of this year. And what do you think, Kiernan? It's a very Kiernan pick because it's outdoors. It's a waterfall. Yeah, I kind of feel like you're stepping on my territory. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Well, they didn't pick Buenos Aires or something, which I would be happy with. I sort of forgot. So you have been to Ecuador, if I recall correctly, right? Yeah, we've talked about Quito on the show. Oh, yes, that's right.

7:20Right, right, right. We did a whole Quito. Now, have you done much of the outdoors? I haven't done any outdoor stuff in Ecuador. I've only done three cities. Oh, wow. Okay. I do think this list is particularly good for you, given that your home base is in South America. It gives you a lot of... Yeah, there's another Costa Rican beach that looked cool. But I think the one that seems the most different. There's that park keep forward in Chile. Yeah, but then you'd have to go back to Chile. Am I right? What's wrong with Chile? Chile's amazing. I'm kidding. I like to be down on Chile. That's part of my vibe.

7:56No, it's fine. Chile's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that is my first pick. Did you bring a pick? Did you bring a pick? Yes, yes, yeah. I have got a pick. It's similarly outdoors. So I'm very much at this time of year in the skiing frame of mind. We've been out skiing in New England quite a lot, and we have more skiing to come over the next six to eight weeks or so. And, you know, it's always it's been a common theme with some of the 52 places list, these like other destinations. So, you know, it's like if you don't want to go to this majorly overrun place, here's a place that's nearby that captures a lot of the same charm or aesthetic.

8:35Or else the list would just be the 52 most over-touristed places. Sure. Yes. And I have not skied in Europe yet. However, skiing is becoming so expensive that every year there's a few articles that come out that spotlight the fact that you can actually book a flight and a hotel and your ski passes and go to Europe for cheaper than you can to go, for example, to Colorado, though not this year. Well, yes, this year, but Colorado is having horrible snow. So it's actually a horrible year to ski in the West, but usually it's better than New England. And there's the famous Matterhorn where in Switzerland, there's a ski resort that's one of the sceniest of the sceniest, most famous Zermatt.

9:24But apparently on the Italian side of of the Matterhorn, I was unaware. There is a, uh, ski area called Brueil, Servinia. And, uh, it's, uh, it's gotten a major investment in renovation over the past few years where like the ski lifts are being made nicer. The hotels are being redone. The restaurants are being, I mean, it makes me a little sad that it sounds like it's not going to retain some of that old school charm, but it's kind of the fresh new place to try. If you find Zermatt to be, uh, too crazy. So that definitely sparked my imagination. As much as a New York Times article I really hang on to and reread every year about skiing in Japan, that one really stuck with me.

10:08I think skiing overseas sounds very exciting. Oh, Japan. And Japan obviously had a couple spots on the list. I would love to go to Japan. It's like so high on my list. Have you never been? I can't remember. I have never been. Okay. I've only been to Tokyo. yeah i love it's so high on my list and uh you know um well yeah that sounds cool i know you love to ski i famously am a horrific uh i ski like a kennedy sure i mean i'm not i'm not i'm not a terribly great skier but i enjoy it no but you go in like you can take the middle ones right i can take the middle i sure can i can i can take the middle ones and i've even occasionally back before children when I was getting pretty decent, would go on the Black Diamonds.

10:53But I haven't ventured there for many a year. Well. But you know what? I'm not like a speed person. Like, I don't need the speed. I'm out there enjoying the nature. It's fine. It's good physical activity. It's great. Intermediate's where I want to be. Yeah, I think it's horrifying. But I'm glad you enjoy it. My second pick, and a pick that I think I can also realistically do this year because it's in Germany. and I will be right next door in Austria, is this famous opera festival in Beirut, Germany. How do you say that? Beirut? I'm not sure. I think you gave it a good try. A little college try.

11:34Gosh, I'm just going around France speaking Spanish to people. I'm like a disaster. Yeah, yeah. It just sounded like you said Beirut with a Castilian accent. Well, that's, you know, we've actually done a deep dive on this. Absolutely. We had Alex Ross on from The New Yorker after he wrote a great, compelling article about how Germany has this magical culture of opera. But I don't think of you as a great opera lover. So I was surprised to see this pick from you. Well, I like opera. I'm getting old. And I think a gay man above 40 needs to start to learn about opera. So I feel like European Ryan should go to the opera.

12:20Now, I just have a question. Do people over 50 refer to themselves as people over 40? Because I'm getting a little confused as to what you're trying to do. I am 43 years old. You are not 43 years old. 100%. 100%. Born in 82. All right. All right. Mom, right in. Right in. Did you bring a second pick here? Yeah, this one, it again goes in that over tourism and sort of other destinations. I was unaware. I think it's been a big story over the last decade that Mount Everest is now overrun with trash, conga line of people, as it's described in the times, and a lot of unqualified people trying to ascend just to tick that mark off their travel box.

13:08So you're going to do that this year? Yeah. Do you know when I flew to Bhutan, I saw Everest out the plane window, which was so cool. I mean, that was epic, but that's the closest I'm going to get to it. That was higher than most of the people get when they're climbing it.

13:27Nepal has taken a really interesting policy approach here. So they're trying to kind of right-size the tourism to Everest by raising the permit to climb to$15 ,000 while waiving permitting to climb similarly impressive peaks all around the country. And so there's all of these mountains that I've never heard of that are just so close to what you would experience on Everest. And you really do have room to spread out those who are interested in ascending. They could just say ban the Sherpas and then nobody would go up. And then just let everybody die. I mean, there's corpses and human waste and it's really not a pleasant scene.

14:15There's a Starbucks up there, though, right? I don't know. Starbucks closing left and right around here. I'm seeing close Starbucks. The Chinese alternative up there. For my industry, I'm loving seeing these Starbucks close. Actually, the best experiences in Harvard Square, there was a great corner store that was an independent children's toy shop called Curious George. And it was wonderful. And it closed and it became a Starbucks, which was so depressing. And guess what? That Starbucks just closed. Well, there you go. There we go. We're getting it back. We're getting it back. So hopefully we see the tourism spread around from Everest to some of these other uh very impressive places and you know i i think uh i i i could see if you go and do one of these climbs it is it doesn't have the cachet at parties of being like oh yeah i just did everest you know you're gonna have to be like but you could just say oh yeah i i climbed i climbed yeah i just did a p him all and they're like what's a p him all you got okay let me pull out my phone yeah i'll show you the new york times list see how it's impressive see how many feet in the sky it is.

15:20No, just like when people who went to Boston University say they went to college in Boston, hoping that they'll come up with another school. I don't know anything about that. I climbed a tall peak in Nepal, wink, wink. And people would assume you're talking about it. Sure, yeah. I just got back from Nepal. My climbing equipment sure is rusty. It was very tall. All right, well, I want to dive in deep with how they pick the places, what other themes were apparent on the list, and what were some of Stephen Hiltner's personal picks. So I think it's time to get to my interview with Stephen Hiltner of the New York Times.

16:00Tell the cabin crew. Flight attendants, prepare for takeoff, please. Stephen Hiltner is an editor, writer, and photographer for the travel section of the New York Times and the man behind the 52 places to go in 2026. Stephen, thank you so much for coming back on Out of Office. Yeah, thanks for having me back on. And congratulations for getting the list out the door. For me, this is the true end of the holiday season. Starts at Thanksgiving, you get through Christmas, New Year's, but I feel like this is the capping achievement when the 52 Places comes out. For those who aren't familiar, what is the 52 Places list?

16:39Each of the items is very deeply reported. There's a lot of cultural information. There's a lot of historical information, but we also try to make them very timely. So every element, every part of this list has a reason, every place has a reason to go in 2026 in particular. And take us through that process. When do you begin? How long is the long list? How do you even begin to start wrapping your arms around trying to capture a year in just 52 places? Yeah, it's a long, drawn-out process. I think this year, Amy and I sent an email out to all of our contributors. That's freelance reporters, staff reporters, board and correspondents, basically everybody that we work with, everybody that we have worked with in the last several years.

17:24I think that email went out in early September. And basically, we tell everybody we're starting the list for next year. Please send us suggestions for places that you can recommend for 2026. that list goes out to hundreds of people and those hundreds of people send us many many hundreds of submissions and so we end up with this very long google doc that has every place that has been recommended to us and basically then spend a month or two there's a small team of us on the travel desk of the editors. We spend a month or two going through, reading through all those submissions and very slowly over time, winnowing that down to a list of 52 places.

18:13There are so many considerations that go into it. Obviously, we want a list that is very geographically diverse. We want a list that is visually very diverse. We want lots of beautiful landscapes and beach scenes, but also really compelling museums and really compelling architecture, really compelling food scenes. We think a lot visually about what this collection of images is going to look like together. And so there are all these sort of themes that we try to hit on. And it's like putting together a giant puzzle piece every year. And I know just from the out of office inbox, and I'm just this lowly travel podcast, the Times must get every press release.

19:00I assume there's lobbying by tourism boards. Do you also go through folks who are trying to fight their way in? Or is it all trusted sources and journalists? It's kind of in the Times family that you source. we do get pitches um but they make up really a small minority of what we look at so most of what we look at is coming from uh writers and reporters that we work with if we're a little bit thin in a given area or a given region we'll sort of drop down and look at lists that come in from um other people in the game, PR companies or whatever it is. But we tend to be extremely, you know, we really try to do all of the reporting ourselves.

19:45So that element of it is very, very small. And actually, I don't think there's anything that we pulled off of those submissions. We collect them. And I have a little tab form at the very bottom of this page, this Google Doc that I have. But normally, we don't really reference them. You can tell sometimes with freelancers, people are looking at similar materials. I mean, I think you can tell that some of the reporters that we get submissions from are looking over other people's lists and have probably gotten promotional material. There was one city in particular that was designated as a European cultural capital this year that we got recommended by several different people and it did not make our list, in part because we felt like probably it was going to be on a lot of other lists.

20:33Yeah, it's already out there. Actually, it turned out that it was. So we tend to kind of steer clear of that kind of influence as best we can. To me, that's what makes the 52 places something to look forward to, is you're usually covering things that I'm totally not aware of. In fact, this year you have an island I've never even heard of, which we'll talk about. But one last question on the process is, as you're taking in and weeding and editorializing all the choices, I assume some themes come out or you start to even get a sense of just the historical moment of what 2026 is going to look like.

21:09Were there any themes that emerged in this year's list? You know, we have made an effort in the past to include themed categories. And in fact, one year, I think maybe two or three years ago, we allowed readers to sort through the list based on themes. So if you were interested in family-friendly travel, you could click a little button at the top of the list and you could sort of sort out all of the family-friendly travel destinations that might appeal to you. We didn't do that deliberately this year. There's no way to sort the list. And we didn't tag the locations the way that we have in the past.

21:43But I think, in general, themes emerge no matter what kind of a story you're putting together. And in this case, looking through lots of different submissions, I would say certain themes emerged, maybe themes that you wouldn't necessarily be surprised by. But, you know, overtourism is a big one now. And it's something that we think about a lot as we're putting together this list. And, you know, overtourism informs the way that we, and hedging against overtourism, informs the way that we think about certain places. And particularly, for example, like in Japan, we really try to recommend places that are going to get people beyond the over-touristed and maybe the really predictable travel experiences.

22:30Yes, I definitely picked up on that. There were a few spotlights this year that are on the other options. So you've heard about this destination. This destination is getting sort of saturated. Here's a place nearby where you can get a similar authentic experience. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We sort of, sometimes on the desk, we refer to those as dupes. So they're sort of duplicate experiences where you can avoid some of the less appealing aspects and maybe help alleviate some of the over-tourism for people who are living there and for communities that are a little bit stressed by tourists and go to a different place.

23:07Instead, that offers some similar experiences and obviously some unique experiences as well. Is it your responsibility to cross-reference the last decade or more of lists to be sure you're not featuring the same place multiple times? It is. Yes, I sort of wish that I could share. So from this enormous, you know, unending Google Doc, we move into a Google Sheet. So it's really, it's just an immensely complicated spreadsheet. But one of the tabs on that spreadsheet is a tab for previous 52 places lists. And it's a quick and easy way for me to keep track of everything that we've run. This was, I think, was the 22nd list in the 21st year of 52 places, places to go.

24:01So it's been going for a long time. It's been a long franchise. there are several hundred places overall that have made the cut in the past. And I've got this spreadsheet that kind of keeps track of all that for me. I can do a quick search and see the last time that, you know, for example, Barcelona was on or some of the more popular destinations. Yeah, to jump into the destinations, I know one that sort of fits this category that I jumped right into the paragraph describing it because I was surprised to see it was Iceland. because I do think over the last 15 years, Iceland as a tourist destination has just been gaining more and more steam.

24:37There's full ad campaigns on it. Iceland airs become very popular. So what put Iceland back on the list this year? Yeah, this is one that we definitely talked about a lot. I mean, we ran a story in the fall about sort of the last 15 years of tourism in Iceland. It was really in the last 15 years that Iceland has sort of become a booming tourism industry. And we did this big look back at why that change occurred and how it evolved and, you know, looking forward into what might happen there. But the big draw this year was the eclipse. So on August 12th, there is going to be a total solar eclipse.

25:24And we figured it would be a great way to call attention to some of the more inventive ways that they are celebrating there. We had a lot of conversations about the best way to cover this particular eclipse because part of it is also stretching into Spain, I think it is. So we considered some locations in Spain, but Iceland ultimately went out. They were having some interesting solar eclipse parties with DJs and dancing, and it seems like it will be a fun, unique place to see it there. The other big thing is I think there will not be a total solar eclipse in Iceland again until 2196. So sort of a once in several lifetimes.

26:10Yeah, the dance parties are going to look different by then. Exactly. And I know for those, again, who are learning about the 52 places list, it is not a ranking. So the top spot is not suggesting that this is above all the others. However, I did like the first entry this year because it was around revolutionary America, which seemed unique to me because it was around a theme that is creating lots of celebrations and lots of events all across America in this year. yeah this was another one that we debated a lot and actually made a change to relatively late in the game we were trying to figure out if we wanted to do revolutionary america as a whole or to single out some of the places philadelphia for example or washington dc that are um really throwing big celebrations for the 250th birthday of america but um you know the idea of doing a themed entry it's kind of fun it's very timely last year the number one destination was jane austen's england which we had a lot of fun with.

27:12You're right to point out both were sort of themed items. I think probably because they just speak to something that's so timely. 250th birthday of America is such a big moment for the country and there are going to be so many celebrations, not just in places like Washington and Philly, but in Massachusetts, in Virginia and New York as well. So there's going to be a lot going on around July 4th and a lot to look forward to.

27:45One type of destination it put on that I hadn't been thinking about, because I'm based in Somerville, Massachusetts, so a lot is going on around me. But you talk about some of the founders' homes, particularly at Mount Vernon. They're going to set up a revolutionary war encampment. There's a bunch of events all throughout the year. I did think that's, if you've been thinking about visiting the homes and burial sites and things of all the founding fathers. This is the year to make sure you cross-reference it with the calendar of events to be sure. One, if you just want the tour, make sure it's not on the major celebration day.

28:20Or if you're looking for a special event to plan a trip around, it'll all be available on their sites. Yeah, absolutely. I think, as you say, it's definitely something to plan ahead for, look to see what is going on. I almost drove up to Great Barrington this past weekend. And they had an event there in celebration of the Henry Knox Trail, which was sort of a moment in 1775, 76, where Henry Knox was dragging all these cannons down to Boston for George Washington. And it was just, you know, a really fascinating little event, local event, very colorful, tons of things like that going on all over the country.