Return Trip: Skiing for the Skeptical

7:01Ryan:No, I don't think I got a gift. I mean, we buy each other dinner, you know, alternate. Oh, OK.

7:06Kiernan:Did you did you call mom?

7:08Ryan:I did call mom. I got mom a gift. You know, she collects giraffes and I got her a this Chilean street artist did this really cool mural of a giraffe. And I got a print of that, which is quite cool.

7:23Kiernan:Oh, that's pretty good. Very thoughtful. Yeah. That can suffice for the Judy alert for Christmas. Yeah.

7:29Ryan:And it hits it hits the three P's. So, you know, yeah.

7:33Kiernan:Which at which were are, of course, for those who are new to the podcast, the three P's are the the guiding principles for what I think make a good souvenir, which is that they are price, portable and potency. You got it. You got it. It's got it's got a decent price. Doesn't doesn't bankrupt you. It's easy to send home or travel with. And it is it evokes a strong sense memory for where you were. Exactly. Yeah. You've nailed the three piece. I'm going to have to stop asking. I love the three piece. Unfortunately, six years in, you've actually taken to remembering them.

8:10Ryan:I think when we do our travel book, it should really center around the three piece.

8:14Kiernan:We need to, you know, I'm not sure that that's going to be, but sure. Okay. Maybe. And, and I guess for, for me, the, the, I, I, I, one thing I wanted to highlight that is a gift idea for future Christmases for out of office listeners is we it's always nice to have like a one gift for somebody that you're going to go on a trip with, you know, you might get them a piece of gear or something that they, they might need, but But one thing that always evokes a strong, potent sense memory for me is when I'm putting up my tree. On Etsy, I got this fantastic ornament several years ago when Catherine and I went to Alaska for the first time.

8:58Kiernan:And it was like a laser cut metal ornament of Alaska, which is a very distinctive shape, of course. Yes, it is. And it's super sharp and very not physically sharp. I mean, it is actually kind of physically sharp. But it's very sharp looking on the tree and it always kind of brings me back. I like ornaments that are related to travel. So if you've got a trip coming up, that's something to keep in mind for yourself, either to remind you of the trip, a potent ornament for next Christmas or something you can give to others, which I guess is not that handy here in the middle of January.

9:30Ryan:Well, you know, it's never too early. This is the best time to buy gifts. Everything's, you know, 50 % off or something, right?

9:37Kiernan:Yeah, I suppose that is true. I mean, really, that's if you guys were exchanging gifts, I would suggest you do it two weeks later.

9:45Ryan:Yeah, no, that's well, he flew off. So I'm all alone here in Santiago.

9:50Kiernan:Oh, I didn't know he's already gone. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Yeah.

9:52Ryan:He went back to the real world and I fly back next week. And then I've got like a real hectic domestic travel schedule before I leave for Europe. So domestic in the U.S. In the U.S. Yeah. Yeah.

10:03Kiernan:Because you're starting to come to that point where you have to spend time outside of South America.

10:08Ryan:I got to go. I got to see my mom. I got to hit New York up. I got to, I got to go to a conference, you know, it's like the whole thing. And I'm doing it all in like two and a half weeks. So what conference are you going to be at? A political tech conference in Phoenix, Arizona.

10:22Kiernan:So that'll be that one that we've been net roots.

10:25Ryan:No, it's a, it's a, it's a new one, like thrown by it. I call it the, what the hell happened to conference, but I don't know.

10:32Kiernan:It's not going to be too happy this year. But Ryan, remember, we're taking a break from Bob. Of course. Well, certainly if listeners want to give us a gift post holidays, it would be wonderful to see some ratings and reviews coming in. We, you know, we always like those five stars helps people discover the podcast. We continue to see our download numbers grow, but we're really looking for this year to be, you know, kicking into high gear. Ryan and I are talking about some exciting new plans for growing the podcast this year. Might take it in several different directions. If you have an idea how you'd like us to go, how you, how you'd like to, you know, slip us a few bucks for the service we provide out of office at gmail.com out of office at gmail.com.

11:14Kiernan:Is that right? Out of office pod, O O O pod.

11:17Ryan:It's out of office pod at gmail.com out of office pod at gmail.com.

11:22Kiernan:Or you could slip into those DMS at O O O podcasts at O O O podcasts on Instagram.

11:29Ryan:But we do have a shout out to Freddie Michaels 3000 who left us a review who says he loves the camaraderie between us that we make the topics a joy to listen to. And he especially loves the quirky Kiernan episodes. So keep it up, guys.

11:48Kiernan:You must have really hated that. Well, I didn't know.

11:51Ryan:I knew you must have seen Family this Christmas. So that's how that review came to be.

11:57Kiernan:Yeah. No, no. Cousin, cousin, Freddy is to Freddy 2009. 99. This while we appreciate it very much. And of course, a recommendation recommendations to friends also help us. But here's another topic that Ryan and I are looking to get some guidance on. As folks know, a couple of years ago, we started when Ryan is domestic to start to do a few like four or five day trips together. We our first one we did together was Richmond, Virginia, because while Ryan and I have traveled extensively separately, we actually have not spent a ton of time traveling together over the years. So Richmond, Virginia was the kickoff.

12:36Kiernan:Very fun, fun episode back in the archives. And then this past year, we did Louisville, Kentucky and Mammoth Cave National Park in one go. And we are trying to match when Ryan's in the U.S. with another trip here. And what we're usually looking for is and Ryan, you should you should pitch in here as well. I actually think the Louisville was a good model for a trip for us, which is something that is city adjacent. So maybe it's like based in not one of the main, not Chicago or L.A. or New York, which are places we've spent time before, but kind of those second travel destination sort of cities.

13:17Kiernan:And if it has proximity to a national park or some sort of outdoor exploration, that would be a real plus. Because what we found with Louisville was we could do an episode solely about the city where we got out and explored the bars and restaurants and culture there. And then we did a couple that were just about the national park. So that was a perfect destination for us. So if you have ideas you want to pitch, send them on over to the email or put them in a review.

13:47Ryan:Yeah, we need to get this on the books for, I guess we're thinking like May or June, right? That's the idea.

13:54Kiernan:Yeah. I mean, I have to say travel is like my calendar is booking up with travel pretty fast. So I'm hoping we can fit it into spring. I could see it being pushed to fall if you're going to be stateside again.

14:06Ryan:Well, I just got invited to a mutual friend's wedding. I got to go to Ireland in September of all places.

14:12Kiernan:Who, a mutual friend? Yeah. One of my friends? I didn't get this invite.

14:15Ryan:A blue stater. Mr. Bowman getting married out there in Ireland.

14:20Kiernan:Oh, Johnny Bowman. Oh, yeah. Well, I would. Gosh, you're close enough to Johnny Bowman that you got invited to Johnny Bowman's wedding in Ireland.

14:26Ryan:Yeah, I talk to Johnny Bowman all the time.

14:28Kiernan:Also, Johnny Bowman. Why is he getting married in Ireland? Is he marrying an Irish Catholic girl?

14:33Ryan:No, he's he is very Irish these days.

14:36Kiernan:He's increasingly Irish.

14:38Ryan:He's gotten into his Irish heritage. Yeah, I think it's going to be. It's in like I don't it's like it's not in Dublin. It's in some county I never heard of. I got to figure it out.

14:47Kiernan:My goodness. Well, congrats to Johnny Bowman. And presumably I'm going to be Ryan's plus one. So I look forward to being there.

14:55Ryan:Yeah. If you can get away. Sure.

14:58Kiernan:Now, I do know, Ryan, we kicked around a couple of ideas. I believe Kansas City was a possibility that we had been considering. Are there any others that have popped in your mind?

15:10Ryan:Oh, Kansas City is an interesting one.

15:13Kiernan:I know we've talked about this a little bit longer of a haul because it's not the easiest destination to get to. But it doesn't check the city box. I mean, maybe we could swing by Bismarck or something. But the Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota, it's been calling me for a lot of years.

15:31Ryan:I just started watching Yellowstone and I've got like, you know, Montana on the mind.

15:36Kiernan:Actually, it's interesting that you so so my the travel schedule in the year ahead, which is starting to take shape. I'll talk about a little bit in the last stop, because in the last stop, we're going to be covering our resolutions from last year and new travel related resolutions we have for the year ahead. But Yellowstone is a possibility for me this year. And that has loomed large for me because I had to cancel it several years ago, had it all booked. and it aligned with when the full eclipse was hitting Yellowstone and there was not a rental car to be had in the West. So I was going to fly there and have no way to actually get to Yellowstone.

16:13Ryan:Yeah, you need to be able to get there. That would be disappointing. You're not like the hitchhiking type.

16:20Kiernan:No, I'm not. Well, Ryan, I think it's probably we can save that little teaser for the resolutions to come in the last stop. Let's get into the meat of the episode. I think it's time to go skiing. I think it's time for the last stop.

16:36Ryan:I'm sorry.

16:38Kiernan:No, it's not. It's not time for the last stop. I was just teasing the last stop here before we take off. Tell the cabin crew.

16:47Ryan:Flight attendants, prepare for takeoff, please.

16:50Kiernan:You know, what's interesting about that review, Ryan, is that, you know, that guy clearly felt we had camaraderie where others write in. Does Ryan like Kiernan? It depends on the episode. you know it depends on the episode yeah it depends on the episode the topic the mood

17:04Ryan:how well how well the tech worked when we when we started the podcast it also probably depends

17:09Kiernan:on how long it's been since we've seen each other like when we've just seen each other it's grumpy and bitter yeah well uh okay so skiing for the skeptical so we should and i think by what is

17:25Kiernan:I'm actually right now playing with, uh, you know, I really like Legos. I build a lot of Legos with Charlie and, uh, I have a little, uh, Indiana Jones Lego figure here that has skis. So I'm holding it and playing around with the skis and ski poles, uh, during the episode. And, uh, uh, so we should talk quickly about our, uh, our personal, uh, experience or inexperience with skiing. So why don't we, why don't we kick off with yours? Cause I genuinely do not know this about you. I don't believe growing up in Maryland, there were many ski mountains close by, but you tell me, have you skied?

18:00Ryan:Um, so I went skiing during the pandemic. If you, if you remember

18:05Kiernan:this story time, was that for the first time up the Platte Hill mountain in Roxbury, New York.

18:11Ryan:Oh, yes. Okay.

18:13Kiernan:And I had an amazing black onesie that I that I you know, I remember a lot of pictures of you stationary in a onesie.

18:22Ryan:So I never got like I never got off the practice like down, you know, like where they have like the children practice. I never went up on like a mountain. I hated it enough from just like the first 45 minutes of falling on the on the ice that I was just like, this is not a thing, you know, because I don't like. I don't like cold or speed or heights and skiing kind of combines all those things. Um, so yeah, that's my, what got you out there?

18:50Kiernan:I assume the guy that I was dating. Yeah. Yeah. And was, was that person an experience?

18:57Ryan:No, never had skied before, but took to it like, you know, like a, a dog takes, if I, if I, if I know you,

19:03Kiernan:I'm guessing he was probably considerably younger and a bit more spry. Yeah.

19:09Ryan:Yeah. Yeah.

19:10Kiernan:Well, I mean, I, So, and, and you've never gone back just the one time.

19:14Ryan:Uh, no, but the second day we went, I didn't, I, I just, uh, I didn't even suit up in my onesie. I just hung out in the, uh, uh, uh, what's it called?

19:23Kiernan:This is, this is actually the lodge. I think I think this is a, um, this is a perfect setup because you are the skiing skeptical. Yeah.

19:33Ryan:Beyond that now. Yeah.

19:36Kiernan:You're giving up, you're the skiing, giving up. All right. So so I would say my introduction is skiing. So my brothers would occasionally ski at like a hill in Connecticut that that was nearby. And, you know, we used to get more snow when I was growing up than we do today because of climate change. So there was a little hill there called Powder Ridge that my brothers like actually learned the basics of skiing. And but I never went. We didn't have like a pair of skis around the family. We didn't have boots. We didn't have poles. And I do think that that's like one of the biggest hurdles for people to get over is it needs so much gear.

20:14Kiernan:Did you just rent all that stuff and you bought your onesie?

20:17Ryan:Yeah, I bought my onesie off of like Alibaba and then I rented I rented all the ski stuff there. But it's Platte Kill Mountain is like a very it's like they advertise themselves as like, you know, a place you can go to to get started. So we got like a ski instructor and all that stuff. Yeah.

20:35Kiernan:And where is that onesie today?

20:38Ryan:I believe in my, in the move, it didn't survive. Like I didn't know. Yeah. I didn't think on the curve side. I think it was, I think it was gifted. Yeah.

20:47Kiernan:Yeah. Okay. And it ended up in the Pacific ocean. Well, so, uh, so, so I didn't learn in high school and then in college, my, my roommate from California actually did, he was very brave. He had a couple extra bucks kicking around and he did devote one of his winter breaks to learning to ski with like a little ski recreational club. And he was always trying to get me to go, always trying to get me to go. And I was like, this is my roommate. I didn't want to disappoint him, but like, I just didn't have the cash to like put out for the lift tickets and all the gear. And so I never actually did it.

21:22Kiernan:It was, I would say a little bit of source of contention. And then I started to date in college, Catherine, who is now my wife. And as it turned out, she came from like a serious ski family. This, this was like three kids and parents born on skis, um, fully comfortable major, uh, uh, tent pole moment of the family year is to go, uh, take a trip out West to Colorado and to ski for a week. Okay. So, you know, I was kind of feeling it out for a few years there, putting it off. And then, post-college, it came to a single Christmas where I was with the Mackey family. And all of a sudden, you know, one person was giving me a helmet and the next person was giving me goggles and the next person was giving...

22:10Ryan:They were sending you subtle tips.

22:13Kiernan:Very subtle, very subtle. And so that year, Catherine managed to get me out in Vermont and I took lessons at Killington in Vermont. And, uh, and that I would say is the, my number one recommendation for the skiing skeptical is that you must, must, must take a lesson. If you are learning as an adult, as painful as it is now, did you take a lesson? Yeah, we had an instructor. Okay. See, I'm surprised to hear you were that horrible, even with the help of an instructor.

22:49Ryan:Yeah. I, yeah. I mean, it just, it did, my legs don't, don't have that functionality. I'm surprised.

22:54Kiernan:You were less aerodynamic than you are today because of the Ozempic, of course. So Ozempic, I think you're looking like a ski pole now.

23:04Ryan:I'm definitely thinner now. There's no doubt. But I'm still also really tall.

23:09Kiernan:That was pandemic time, too. I think if I think little kids. Did you just call yourself really tall?

23:14Ryan:Oh, I am six, six, one and a half.

23:17Kiernan:You're holding on to that half.

23:18Ryan:All those little kids, every half inch counts. All those little kids just go so fast to the learning. It's like they don't have any idea that what they're doing is insane and dangerous.

23:29Kiernan:Now, every half inch counts. That's what you've got written on your profile, right? No, you are actually you've touched on something that I think is also very important for the skiing skeptical to recognize, which is you are going to be on starter hills with children who are doing so much better than you are. And they don't even have poles. But what you have to realize, this was somebody gave me this great insight that reframed it for me was those kids have like one foot to fall to the ground and also much more resilient than if you're learning in your 20s or 30s. So you just you have to put your ego aside.

24:05Kiernan:And my argument is that skiing as an experience, once you get the basics underneath your skis and your boots, it opens up a whole new world of experiences and travel that you can enjoy. And I have to argue from the other side where, you know, I'm at this intermediate level where like I could get through a black diamond. I've never done a double dime, double black diamond, but I can I can get through what is, you know, not the easiest hills, but that opens up a lot more runs to me on a mountain.

24:39Ryan:Now, can you can you explain this to people? Because I didn't know about this before my. So it's like it's like a yellow canary, double black diamond gates of hell.

24:48Kiernan:Like what are the what are the well, OK, I actually think you're touching on another good thing for those of us who didn't grow up. It didn't grow up regularly going skiing. There is a whole language and culture that I think is very insidery and turns off a lot of people because you feel like there's no way in. And yeah, there's a lot of lingo. There's a lot of judgment, too. I have to say, especially at like the Ritzier resort places, you always feel a little lesser than if you're like me or Ryan. But that's why I would highlight that there are plenty and plenty and plenty of lodges and mountains out there that are smaller, more accessible, that are more neighborhood mountains.

25:33Kiernan:And I'm going to give my recommendation for the northeastern ones. But just to answer your question, Ryan, there are there's there's different levels of mountains, which my recommendation for you would be that before you actually go out, you look at a map of where you're going. And if you're just starting out, you're going to want to stick to those green trails because those are for the beginners, usually calm slopes. And, you know, you can kind of wend your way down or spend the day on the lift going and seeking out these easier runs. The next step up is blue on most maps. And then the black diamond is the next hardest level.

26:22Kiernan:and again that's where I'm like topping out these days and then beyond that you get the the double black diamond which I always thought was kind of weird that they like have colors up until the extra hard ones where they just double down on the black whatever you know if I again this is me not growing up the widow maker is like is one of them right something like that yeah that's right and then and then it goes up from there there's there's triple black diamonds and And and then there's the biggest you've ever done.

26:51Ryan:What's the most unnecessary risk you've ever taken?

26:54Kiernan:No, no. Just the double black time. It was, you know, it was more I was just trying to prove myself to my father-in-law than anything else. Right. Like, oh, yeah, I can I can do this one. And I did fine, though. I did fine. But it does take years of falling and skis popping off. Not years, but but many trips where you have to get comfortable. It's so annoying when they pop off.

27:18Ryan:And yeah.

27:18Kiernan:Oh, it's so it is really annoying. It's hard to get up to. I mean, it is it is a hard sport, but I think that falling is part of it. Even when you're very, very good, you're occasionally going to hit an icy patch or unpredictable terrain where falling is just part of the game.

27:37Ryan:No, I that that makes sense to me. This this is really useful. I feel like this is a good introduction for folks.

27:44Kiernan:Well, I think this would be a perfect podcast to give to somebody who you're trying to convince to go ski with you because I've been there and God, was it really embarrassing and hard to begin with. But now I'm on the other side and I'm very happy that I did. Here's another thing that I want to tackle, though, Ryan, which is I don't want to cover over what I think a lot of people do, which is the expense of going skiing. It is expensive. It is prohibitively expensive for many, many people. And I think, honestly, when push comes to shove, that is why I avoided it for so many years. Because there's a lot of upfront expense because you absolutely need ski pants, you need layers with a waterproof jacket, or you can get a onesie like you did.

28:28Kiernan:You need a helmet, you need goggles, and then you can rent holes and boots and skis.

28:36Ryan:I actually rented a helmet and goggles at the Platco mountain. They had all that. They basically had like a, I've never skied before package. So yeah.

28:46Kiernan:And that's perfect. That, that I think is a very good way to dip your tone and see if it's for you. But I would also say, you know, you did something that I wouldn't recommend, which is you gave up after one day. Right. And I really think you have to be committed to, I would say like four days, maybe you do two days of lessons. you know, two to four hours with an instructor, either in a class or one-on-one. And then you give yourself some time to just go on some easy runs and get a feel for it yourself. And if you're going to be embarrassed, do it on your own. You know, I remember Catherine always wanted to be with me on the mountain.

29:22Kiernan:And I said, honestly, I really need you to give me like two hours by myself because I'm so embarrassed and self-conscious about it. And it was like anything, It was just practice that got it under my feet. And also, I remember something that really helped me stick with it was I had a very good instructor who, when I got up on skis for the first time, he said, oh, it looks like you ice skate. Have you ice skated? Yeah, I really. No, no. Listen, this is important. And he and he was complimentary because he was saying the keeping your balance on ice skates and the way you turn on ice skates actually gives you a very good base work for how to do it on skis, because it's the same idea of you've got two blades under your feet and now you have two long skis under your feet.

30:04Ryan:Yeah, no, I mean, for me, it's from all the surfing. That's that's where I was able to. Oh, yeah.

30:10Kiernan:You're a major server famous for your surfing capabilities. Have you surfed?

30:16Ryan:I bodyboarded. No, I'm never. OK, so you haven't.

30:19Kiernan:OK, the other pieces then then. Oh, I on the initial gear, too. There is a vast market of secondhand gear that you can get. Real skiers like serious skiers are always upgrading their equipment. They're pretty equipment obsessed. And in that case, they're often selling off their slightly used equipment. Go and get slightly used equipment if you're just testing it out that, you know, or if you have a friend, chances are if you ask them, hey, do you have a spare set of goggles or something kicking around? They will help you and lend it to for you to get under on the mountain for the first time to see if if this is going to be for you.

30:56Ryan:Yeah, it is. It is like golf in that way where you can get gently used equipment.

31:01Kiernan:And then, you know, I think something that is under talked about that for most people, skiing is actually a destination sport. Right. So you have to build in a drive or a flight to do it. And that, of course, comes with its own expenses. And there there are what I would mostly recommend is for your for your initial timeout. You're going to want to look around for what is a good mountain that is is on the affordable side, because some of these mountains, their daily lift tickets can get up to two hundred and three hundred dollars. But, you know, when you're a beginner, I would argue you don't really need to go to those particular mountains.

31:45Kiernan:I was just looking. So the place I had a friend from New Hampshire who I asked, like in New Hampshire, skiing is like ice skating. It's like not a big deal. It's like you're regular. Your parents drop you off on Saturday and you do it all day kind of activity. And he said there's a mountain called Cannon, which was turned out to be really the mountain that I learned on. And Canon, you know, their their lift ticket off peak. So off weekends is ninety nine dollars and on weekends is one hundred and twenty dollars. And by ski standards, that is pretty darn affordable.

32:20Ryan:Yeah, no, that's definitely affordable. I think it's in the world of what of what we paid.

32:24Kiernan:The other thing that if you become more serious or you have the freedom to go skiing four or five, six, seven times through the winter, are these two passes, the Icon Pass and the Epic Pass. And these are basically the larger resorts, which are buying up lots of different mountains. They kind of keep you within the family. So, you know, the whole idea is that if you're in the Northeast, maybe you're going to get one of these passes, ski some of their mountains in the Northeast, go for a few weeks out West and go to others that you can use your pass on. They run about a thousand to twelve hundred dollars.

33:03Kiernan:So you do have to be going many times, you know, but if you live in closer proximity, maybe a two hour drive like I do in Massachusetts to some of these mountains, that could be something realistic for you. And it could ultimately be saving your money. And, you know, I hear you say, oof, but when you put it in the context of, you know, if you're taking a trip and you're taking a flight and you're taking a hotel, I mean, for a lot of people, skiing is the center activity for their winter. And that's something that certainly my wife grew up being. And there were a few winters there where it was the same for us.

33:38Kiernan:We did a big Colorado trip where we went to Beaver Creek and we went to a mountain. called Copper Mountain, which was a really great place for an intermediate skier like me.

33:52Ryan:Now that sounds, that sounds fun. You know, I'll still be there drinking the hot, hot mixed drinks over at the, at the lodge.

34:01Kiernan:There's also, there's kind of a hot travel tip in the New York times recently that was about how cost effective it can be to combine a skiing vacation with a European vacation, because lift tickets and a day out on the mountains have actually not inflated in price as much on the continent as they have in the U.S. And so where they've climbed up to 250 and more here, there are still a lot of, you know, more humble, everyday but great ski mountains in Europe where you can get on the mountain for$75 a day. So, you know, if you were considering a week in Colorado, where you're paying that 250 every day, or 75 in Switzerland, that flight may actually be the wash and you get a big vacation out of it too.

34:59Kiernan:So it could actually be a cost effective solution. Pretty neat.

35:02Ryan:I like that. That's clever.

35:04Kiernan:And so I want to sum up with what my personal experience has been that skiing has kind of opened up to an appeal to me as a sport worth traveling for. The first is very, very pleasing as an athletic experience. So once you once you get over the well, really, even when you are learning, you know, it is not an easy sport. You definitely feel it in your body. You feel it in your legs. And it has kind of that same pleasure that I get from a big national parks trip where when you go out and you're hiking a 10 mile, a 12 mile hike in a day, when you sit down to dinner that night, you feel like you've really earned something big.

35:45Kiernan:You've earned your beer, your mixed drink. And I have found that on a nice ski day, you've always feel like you've earned that pleasure at the end of the day. Sounds like you just did that without the skiing part on day two.

35:59Ryan:I was happy just to earn that pleasure while my significant other skied. But, you know, maybe you've inspired me to give this another shot, but I don't know.

36:11Kiernan:Well, the second argument I have is skiing as an outdoor experience. I think this one is like a little less acknowledged. But the truth is like being out on some of these mountains gives you such awesome, beautiful views. And if you are, you know, warm enough and you're comfortable enough on your skis, going up on those lifts and just looking around at the beauty, especially the time I have spent in Colorado has really shown this to me. You can just see vast distances. And again, a great reminder of what beautiful countryside and nature we have in the U.S. And honestly, there's not too many other ways to get those views and those experiences.

36:55Kiernan:And when Catherine and I went to Beaver Creek, there were lots and lots of ski runs that were going through, you know, patches of conifer forest. And it really just it's one of the few times that you can be on vacation. And even if there's other skiers around you, it's a very individual sport. So you can get quite a lot of inner peace and nature time and sort of almost meditation time in in nature. And guess what? It's not that easy to check your phone with your your heated gloves or your mittens on. So it kind of forces you to unplug a little bit. And I really appreciate it for that.

37:36Ryan:Yeah. And that's one of the things I didn't like. I was like trying to tweet while I was on the slope.

37:42Kiernan:God, the Internet needs to see my ones. Yeah.

37:45Ryan:If we are a friend, Rich Mintz, we get a little camera installed on the top of his.

37:50Kiernan:Wow. We're really dropping the blue state names here. Um, the, the third is it's a very good, um, uh, trip to take as a family or a friend experience, because you can go to one mountain where the expert skier and the beginner skier can all have things to do. And many of them are arranged so that there are lodges or lunch spaces where you can say, okay, we're all going to go out for two hours and do our individual thing. And then we're going to meet up, compare notes, have fun, and then do an afternoon together. other. And I have just found for all levels, it's very good for that. And, you know, I'm experiencing this right now.

38:28Kiernan:Charlie actually just took his first ski lesson at five.

38:32Ryan:So Charlie's going to be one of those kids who's just a natural.

38:35Kiernan:Oh, for sure. Well, we'll see. But yes, I mean, I definitely I was probably the most enthusiastic about having them take lessons because I know what it is to learn as an adult. I would much rather have learned at five. So it's really nice for all different levels and all different ages. And I think it's great for that. And then the final is skiing, I think, can give, you know, just like going out to a national park or knowing that there's a specific museum that you want to see can be the impetus for a full vacation plan. And if you know that you want skiing to be part of a March outing, then it automatically narrows it down to a bunch of destinations that you can plan a whole trip around.

39:16Kiernan:So when Catherine and I used to go to Colorado, this was I'm trying to think if we went in the pandemic. We definitely went just before the pandemic and we would always spend a couple of days in Denver. We would like work remotely in Denver and we would check out a bunch of the great Denver restaurants. Denver's very big on breakfast tacos surprise or breakfast burritos, surprisingly. So we'd always get a breakfast burrito, uh, take in a bunch of the museums there. They have like a train station that has, um, all this awesome, uh, um, uh, food stalls. And, uh, and there was one thing there I never got to see, which is why I got to go back to Denver, which is the Molly Brown house, the house of Molly Brown from the Titanic.

39:55Kiernan:Uh, you know, as Catherine likes to say, reason to go back, But it was always really great to combine, OK, we're going to do this, you know, city close to the mountain and then we're going to like go on our ski days and combine culture and athletics. So I think skiing is really nice central point for planning a trip like that. And I'm very intrigued by these European recommendations that the Times has. And I will put those in the in the show notes. I have not skied in Europe. So that that that feels like a goal for me.

40:29Ryan:I know a guy who skis in Switzerland like all the time and seems to love it. It's beautiful.

40:36Kiernan:I feel like if you're in Switzerland, you just have to.

40:39Ryan:Yeah, exactly.

40:40Kiernan:Well, Ryan, I hope that it does sound like I've softened your view a little bit. I'm not sure. There's some skiing in Chile.

40:47Ryan:I know. I know. I mean, it's hard to believe it's 90. It's 92 degrees here in Santiago.

40:53Kiernan:So well, you're not you're not in the mountains.

40:55Ryan:No, no, no, no.

40:57Kiernan:Well, with that, Ryan, I think hopefully I convinced you that in the year ahead, one of your resolutions could get back up on skis. And with that, I'm going to suggest we move on to our resolutions. Last stop. The last stop. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the last stop on this train. Everyone, please leave the train. All right, Ryan, well, we're here in the last stop. This is the last segment of the show, the final segment of the show. That's why we call it the last stop. And it's my favorite segment. It's your favorite segment. It's popularly known as the people's segment. And that's because we come together as a community to share.

41:33Kiernan:And it could be anything we share. It could be a memory. It could be a longing. I don't know that we've ever done a longing, but you could do a longing. It could be a piece of gear. It could be an anecdote. It could be a trip that you just went on, or it could be a trip that you're planning. It can be anything, but it has to meet one criterion. and it has to check a specific box. And that is, it must inspire the spirit of wanderlust within us even during the work a day week. So Ryan, I want to ask you as I ask you every episode, have you brought, and this one's a special one, a New Year's resolution last stop this week?

42:13Ryan:I have. So my resolution is to take more day trips outside of the main place that I'm staying. I was just in Colombia. Yeah. I was just in Colombia for like six months and I'm gone now for quite a while and I'm looking back and there's all these things that are like two, three hours outside of Bogota I really wanted to do. And when the weekend came, I just sort of, you know, I didn't make it happen. So I'm making sure on my trip out to Europe that I'm going to do a couple of day trips. I've got one planned from Krakow to Auschwitz. I've got one planned from Romania into Transylvania to see Dracula's Castle.

43:03Ryan:So I'm trying to do more of these, you know, trips where I wake up early in the morning and I just get out for the day and then get back late at night and experience something totally different than where I am.

43:13Kiernan:Have I given you my salt mine recommendation outside of Krakow?

43:18Ryan:No, I should, though, because I've been to the other salt mine. There's only two salt mines.

43:22Kiernan:I know you have. And this one has a Catholic chapel down there.

43:26Ryan:So does the one.

43:28Kiernan:Yeah, they love the underground salt cathedrals. This one, I believe, is named after St. Kinga. Yeah.

43:34Ryan:I should definitely do that as well.

43:36Kiernan:I love the day trip. I feel like that's very true to what we've talked about in terms of the U.S. and local travel, especially during the pandemic, that there's lots of stuff to see within a few hours of wherever you are. And you're right, applying that, especially because you've been in South America now for a fair bit of time, you're probably exhausting some of the main central city places. And so experiencing and looking into that two hour radius outside is great. Would you ever drive? Do you drive down there?

44:09Ryan:In some some places I would drive like in Santiago, we got a driver, which is similar. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I don't know that I would drive necessarily, but it would be easy enough to figure out ways to get around. So in Europe, it's amazing because now I'm just like, there must be a train there. And everywhere I look, of course, I can take a train. Of course, yeah. So it's so nice to have that option.

44:35Kiernan:What's very interesting, Ryan, is I was looking back at our resolutions a year ago. And I think that in both cases, Neither of us accomplished the resolution within the calendar year 2024, but we have both set ourselves up to accomplish it in 2025 because your resolution was to get back to Europe. And I don't believe you did that in 2024, but now you have this big trip planned in the months ahead.

45:01Ryan:Yeah, it's going to be a lot of a lot of Europe talk, folks, on the first half of 2025.

45:08Kiernan:coming i mean i i feel like we we we've got you know three or four poland episodes coming up because then we'll have both been and i've got a lot to say about warsaw krakow and the environs

45:19Ryan:yeah that's going to be it's going to be fantastic um what's uh what's your resolution

45:28Kiernan:yes i do have a last stop this week Well, first off, oh, my God, third year running. I have not accomplished one of my resolutions, which actually is very close to home, which is I really want to master the capitals of every country in the world. I feel like it's always the islands that trip me up because some of these island countries I'm so unfamiliar with that to remember the island and the capital always, always makes it hard work. But, you know, what's the capital of Micronesia? Well, exactly. This is, you know, I couldn't tell you. This is why I failed in 2023 and 2024. So I want to recommit in 2025 and a year from now, I'm going to be coming on.

46:14Kiernan:I'm going to be talking about capitals that you've never even heard of. And it's going to be very pleasurable. So we're going to double down on that one. The other resolution that I made last year that I did not fulfill this year, but which is going to happen in 2025 is planning sort of a larger destination trip with the full family. This is partially in service of folks asking for a traveling with kids episode or series. And sure enough, in June, we've got Alaska coming up, and that's a big across the country sort of trip that we'll be taking with both of my kids.

46:50Ryan:I don't think I knew the kids were going. That's exciting.

46:52Kiernan:Oh, yeah. My five-year-old and three-year-old were doing it. And so I feel, again, didn't get it in 2024, but it's on the books for 2025. And then there's a few other things we're looking at, potentially Yellowstone, potentially a London trip, and then probably some more local travel. So we'll see what happens there. The other one I did make in the past, Ryan, that I did accomplish was writing the book. That was last year's. I said, I'm going to finish the book. And sure enough, I finished the book. I had got out Secret Boston, an unusual guide. By the way, very cool. A bunch of people who got it on Christmas posted and tagged me in their posts on Instagram, which was really, really neat to see.

47:32Kiernan:So I appreciated that for those who got Secret Boston this past Christmas and Hanukkah. And I am resisting the urge to put together another book proposal, but I do have a very good idea for a secret guide that I would like to either edit or write some of. I don't know that I can sign on right now for a full another book, but I do have this little desire.

48:01Ryan:Secret Hartford?

48:03Kiernan:No, I will say, but listen, I wish that I could write Secret Chicago. I would just I would need like a month just to live in Chicago, which I can't do. But I Chicago is begging for a secret guide. So if anybody's out there wants to write Secret Chicago, get in touch with me.

48:19Ryan:Well, that would be exciting. um well when we come back uh next episode we're going to talk about chile i'm still deciding how we're going to divide the episodes up because there's so much to talk about might do a santiago specific one and then talk about stuff outside of santiago figure that out but i'm super excited

48:37Kiernan:to talk about it i i'm most excited because chile has always lived uh large in my imagination because back uh in middle school and high school when i was working at the rectory father luis was uh from Chile used to come and talk to me about Chile. He probably had some stories. Father Luis, he was a young man, ended up falling in love with a parishioner and converting to being Episcopalian.

49:01Ryan:Wow. Well, we won't hold that against him. That's very conclave of him.

49:06Kiernan:I haven't seen it yet, but yeah, I'll be thinking of Father Luis on our upcoming Chile episodes.

49:11Ryan:All right. Well, until then, I'm Ryan Davis. And I'm Kiernan Schmidt. And this is Out of

49:17Kiernan:office and outdoor sports podcast is this ski lift seat taken oh i don't even like the ski lift

49:27Ryan:it freaked me out so much i love it i mean it's cold though