In short
Parenting teenagers’ smartphone use and online safety: when to give phones, how to limit apps/notifications, managing social media risks (including the under-16 ban), and building trust through ongoing dialogue and “family pledge” habits.
Guest
Dr. Marta Deiros Collado, an online safety expert and clinical psychologist; also author of The Smartphone Solution.
Key claims
smartphones aren’t made for children; delaying as long as possible builds skills; “safe by design” apps are preferable, but bans don’t remove risks (kids can bypass via other apps/VPNs). Biggest dangers include friends’ group chats (e.g., exclusion/bullying/sexting) and algorithms that exploit vulnerability and impulsivity.
Notable examples
Snapchat desktop use bypassing “no apps”; Snapchat handles changing and disappearing posts; Snapchat streaks; teenagers using storage limits/drafts; parents turning off Wi‑Fi being outsmarted; sexting spreading through schools; TikTok sending violent/pornographic/misogynistic content within minutes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Complexity of Teen Phones
0:29 to 1:23
Discussion on the complexities of giving teenagers phones, their independence, and safety.
“Yep, and they can help you figure out words like riz or cooked.”
Choosing the Right Phone
1:23 to 2:54
Exploration of different types of phones suitable for teenagers and the pros and cons.
“So, you know, your question for me is it depends.”
Navigating Teen Online Behavior
2:54 to 8:06
The hosts discuss common online behaviors of teenagers, including Snapchat use and digital footprints.
“I think the smartphone I will delay for as long as possible.”
Risks and Realities of Teen Social Media
8:06 to 12:02
Discussion on the risks teenagers face on social media and the importance of parental awareness.
Managing Phone Use and Notifications
12:02 to 14:00
Insights on managing phone notifications and the impact of smartphones on daily life.
“And I wouldn't be like, you know, the ban is on social media.”
Understanding Smartphone Addiction
14:00 to 20:10
Explore the impact of smartphones on our lives and the need for healthier usage habits.
“You have to, when I go and park the car, I need the app to park the car.”
Establishing Family Phone Rules
20:10 to 24:10
Learn strategies for creating effective phone usage rules within families.
Social Media Regulations and Concerns
24:10 to 28:01
Discuss the implications of social media bans for younger users and the effectiveness of such measures.
“And that does not encompass the scale of what social media looks like for kids.”
Navigating Teenagers and Online Content
28:01 to 31:50
Learn about the challenges teenagers face with online content and the importance of dialogue.
“I think that is the core of everything I talk about because it's true.”
Understanding Teen Slang and Communication
32:01 to 39:40
Explore the significance of understanding teen slang for better communication.
“I often get these things completely wrong.”
Show all 11 chapters
Building Trust and Connection with Teens
39:41 to 41:17
Discuss the importance of trust and connection in parenting teenagers.
“But someone listening to that, all of a sudden they're questioning their entire relationship with a partner.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02Josh Widdicombe:Rob, today is our second episode where we talk, we go in-depth with an expert on online internet safety. I was going to say this time, teens. Teens. We've done pre-teens, now teens. This is where it gets juicy. More independence, their own phones, their own apps. Yes. It's the wild west out there. Totally. And Rob, if you want some help, Tesco Mobile have loads of online resources, experts help. Yep, and they can help you figure out words like riz or cooked. Yes. But not cooked as in your dinner. It's another word for another thing. Well, same word for a different thing. Yeah. So once you're done with this episode, visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub for tips on how you can have a chat about your kids' online lives.
0:49Welcome back, Dr. Marta.
0:51Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Hello. The second instalment of our, it's a sort of new, the new sort of expert episodes. Yes. I love it. because we don't know anything.
1:01Josh Widdicombe:How do you think so far? We've done.
1:03Dr Martha Deiros Collado:You've done great. I love the questions. I love that you talk from like a dad perspective and I love that it just feels really normal and like the kind of conversation that you'd have out and about.
1:13Josh Widdicombe:Get ready. Things are about to go up a gear. Because if that was the start of the canapes of parenting with kids and screens and online, we're talking about teenagers. Yeah. And the big question I've got really at this stage, because it affects me, I'm quite selfish, phones yes they want them from about eight or nine ten when do you give them a phone what's on the phone how much access do they have and what's what's what's a plan really or what these sort of
1:41Dr Martha Deiros Collado:the experts science opinion on it oh the phone conversation is so complex but also nuanced i think so not all mobile phones are the same open question the only question was the opening six
1:54Josh Widdicombe:questions and I had a few more to add but I felt it'd be you know it'd be too much yeah yeah we'll take it slow yeah so you can just interrupt me also if you listened to the last episode if you did listen to the last episode that sounds weird you've also you'd be mad to come in this halfway through will you well I suppose if you've got teenagers if you've got teenagers you might not oh sorry they're just looking at themselves aren't they yeah yeah um smartphones were not created for
2:20Dr Martha Deiros Collado:children so we need to think about that so that's one of my things as a mum that I always think smartphones were not made for children they're expensive you know I think of them as like really expensive mini computers that you have in your pocket yes yeah but I think you can give your child a mobile phone and I don't like the word dumb phones because they're not dumb at all they're really you know complicated and brilliant for staying in touch calls texts all of that without all the smart capabilities of the apps and the social media. So, you know, your question for me is it depends. It depends what you want to do.
2:55Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I think the smartphone I will delay for as long as possible. And obviously we've now got the potential of a UK ban.
3:02Josh Widdicombe:Let's call it a dumb phone for people to just understand what that term means. Are we talking about a totally different model of phone or what some people do is like they get an iPhone and then they disable a load of the apps?
3:17Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I mean, you can do that. You can get an iPhone and disable all of the apps. I think Apple has created a new phone that is coming out at some point. I think it's in the autumn. By the way, I am not sponsored by Apple. But I do like the fact that this new kind of iOS, I can't remember what it is now, 27, I think, the capabilities of this are slightly different to the old phones. So now as a parent, you can disable absolutely everything on an iPhone. And even things like going on a website, you have to agree on your phone. So if they go on Safari, which is Google, Apple, Google, and they type something in, it comes up on your phone and says they want to look at this website.
3:57Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Are you OK with it or are you not? Which is brilliant because it gives you, I mean, for some young people might say, that's awful, they're controlling everything. but if your child is moving to secondary and what you want is for them to have you know a smartphone yeah but you want them to be safe then i think that might be a good option of course apple is very expensive yeah i also have a phone available google pixels exactly so i was gonna say for me as a mum who is cheap i'm like well if i just want like texting and calls i'm not paying for that I'm not spending£800 on a phone
4:33Josh Widdicombe:because by the age they get to where you want to let them have the apps they'll want a new iPhone anyway exactly
4:40Dr Martha Deiros Collado:so I'm like I'm just going to get you and there's tons of brands but if you do have an old iPhone or I saw a thing actually Google Pixel or Google Pixel or Android Samsung or Motorola Banana Flip Phone 1 to 1 Mercury yes of an older iPhone I've seen the thing where you can basically see accessibility settings yes so it's for people that maybe have different needs if blind or deaf. Smart kids will just switch that off. You need to be really aware, we're talking about teenagers now. So if you do do that for your kid and they don't switch off, great because it's still there, bad news, bad GCSE results.
5:13Josh Widdicombe:My friend said his daughter who's 14 or 15, she gets around everything they do.
5:18Dr Martha Deiros Collado:A hundred percent. The way I think about it is when we were all teenagers... Dumb parent. Yes, we're all dumb parents though. This is basically my story. if Alison Hammond did that, Alison Hammond turned off her Wi-Fi at certain points so her son can't go online. He went in, turned it off for her, put it on for him. I mean, do you remember, maybe this is just in my house and I've got dumber parents, but do you remember having to set the VHS on record?
5:43Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, of course, yeah. And my parents were like, oh, how do you do this?
5:46Dr Martha Deiros Collado:And I'd be like, come on. Well, now you have to think you are that parent.
5:50Josh Widdicombe:Yeah.
5:50Dr Martha Deiros Collado:And your kid knows more about all the apps, about everything. I mean, I have so many stories. recently young i mean i won't go too in depth but i've got young people who you know are allowed on snapchat but now if you take a snapshot snapchat tells the other person that you've taken so instead they use another device or a camera to take photos of what they're seeing another kid did something which i find you know of course they did so lots of parents don't know that you can get snapchat on a desktop so even though this mom was like she doesn't have access to any of her apps there are no apps on her phone she had it on a desktop she had it on a desktop doing all of her snapchat on her desktop which her mom found so you know i don't even know what snapchat really is oh it's just well it's a chatting app but it's teenagers use it lots of teenagers use it the danger with yes so your handle so the handle is like the little name that you use yeah right you can change it constantly so nobody knows who you are oh god and the images the things that you post they only stay for a few seconds because the problem is you can never really find who's received what as a parent you can't go back and go let me see what you've been doing they can you've got to disactivate all of that oh god and also it works that algorithm with it is a bit like durolingo it has the streak stuff like how many days have you been on it and then And teenagers really freak out about losing their streaks.
7:21Josh Widdicombe:Yeah.
7:21Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Because you get little awards if you get a streak. Yeah, of course. So that's the gamifying of those things, Major. Yes, 100%. And it's the same with, I think, if kids have got low storage on their phone for photos, they use Snapchats to take the photos and leave it in their draft. And leave it there, yeah. Because I think Snapchats store it in their clouds so that they almost use it as a camera. They do. App as opposed to the normal camera. But again, lots of teenagers don't understand. and even adults I've found it difficult to understand you know the digital footprint that never leaves so I think remembering that you're less clever than your kid when it comes to this is like key because stop trying to think I'm the parent I know what I'm doing like when it comes to teens you do not know they know better than you so basically you try your best they get to about 16 you just tap out and hope it's alright you build trust with your kid you don't tap out that's probably a better way of putting it
8:13I've just tapped out I've done the best of looking
8:15Dr Martha Deiros Collado:never tapped out two sides of the same coin rob i'm basically in a slow choke hold for my children to the point we've all been teenagers i think the reality is parenting teenagers is like oh another ball game yeah yeah and so many of us don't get don't get taught how to parent our teenagers and if you actually put yourself in in a teen's shoes you're like oh yeah i did loads of stuff behind my parents back and they didn't know about it you need to accept that's going to happen but the stronger your relationship is with your kids the more likely they are to come and talk to you and you can still set boundaries, limits you know, rules in place you're still the parent and I always think they are still children with like, you know, developing bodies and brains and all of that but they're very impulsive they will take tons of risks they do not understand the consequences of some of their actions, like they simply do not and we're talking about teenagers, it could get intense but I've met so many kids who have had problems with things like sexting and I think as parents we're like, oh no, that doesn't happen, it won't happen to my lovely kid, I'm like no it happens it goes around schools these photos go everywhere and once they're out they're out yeah yeah like stopping it is a nightmare and so I think when we're talking about phones again when I'm like I will delay for as long as I can that doesn't mean everybody around me will do you worry that there
9:32Josh Widdicombe:was a kid at my school there's a family that didn't have a TV and he was you sad no he was out the loop out the loop oh you know what i mean he was he didn't know what had happened on top of the pops or neighbors or whatever right now that's a chat at school but that's what's happened that was that's what your child without the phone for is yes 100 % and so do you how much are you leading your own plowing your own furrow and how much you going we need to as a group of parents come together here because it's difficult to act outside of
10:10Dr Martha Deiros Collado:the group my view is controversial go on so my view is actually as soon as you give your child a phone with those kind of chatting capabilities and there are you know the conversation is very nuanced because even just like no apps doesn't mean they don't do group chats and group chats are one of the most complex kind of difficult things for kids but as soon as you give them the ability to do that like you're saying you know he was left out of the loop i want you to accept that your kid if he is that kid who gets left out of the loop they're going to get more left out like a phone does not necessarily connect kids better together it can like amplify social struggles yeah yeah so bullying more likely and you know we talk about strangers on the internet and i'm like one of the biggest risks to your kid is their own friends on whatsapp yeah yeah They're friends on a group chat.
11:05Josh Widdicombe:Not just to a kid, to an adult.
11:06Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Yeah. But I'm serious. Yeah, totally. Like, we think, oh, it's all these strangers, you know. It's not that. It's their friends who will exclude them, bully them, send images of them, you know, like, do things that you're like, this is awful and it's really distressing my kid. And it's within their friendship group. Yeah. But it escalates, it amplifies it, which is why the delaying isn't just avoidance, like your friend, no TV. for me it's a way of supporting our children to have the skills to navigate the complexity of
11:37Josh Widdicombe:this one of the arguments that the kid would probably make is i need to be able to and it's weird isn't it because when we were you know we'd be out playing football or whatever no way of our parents contacting us because we didn't have phones but now the idea of your child being out and uncontactable feels really weird right to us because we're so used to a world where everyone contacts each other and your kid would probably go if I go into town I need a way to contact you blah blah blah that's what are the other ways of doing that or is it that we go do you know what it's actually all right that they go without a phone I think both and I don't know who you are
12:14Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I think it's different for different parents I mean if my daughter had to travel quite far for school secondary school yeah I would think she needs a mobile phone I would feel safer makes sense to me that she can contact me and say the train is delayed or whatever whatever train times Exactly, all of that stuff. And I wouldn't be like, you know, the ban is on social media. It's not on your kid having a phone. And you can still teach your kid that actually the phone goes out with you because it's a mobile phone. It's mobile. But when you come into the house, which is something I'm practicing, you hang it up like a landline.
12:47Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Yeah. We need to do that as a doctor. You put it off your person. So I've started to do it, and it's imperfect. During the summer holidays, I've held it on a bit more, but now the school routine is back i'm going to try again i just leave it by the front door and i put it on loud because we carry it on silent all the time now and it just buzzes constantly but if you put it on loud and you switch off all your notifications apart from like the ones you need like texting and calls for me nothing i don't need anything else i don't need all my apps to tell me alert we use our phones like they're urgent yeah and i'm like it's not urgent most of the time it's nonsense yeah like once you do what i do it gives you like i feel so much lighter in my house because they're actually quite heavy to carry in your pocket and you're suddenly like oh and you're not attached to this thing it might sleep a lot better when i did it when i put it down at seven o 'clock yeah i will sleep much better and then i've come out of it again obviously so much better do you know what i've noticed
13:43Josh Widdicombe:because i do it on holiday which is not enough right but always on holiday i'll leave it in the hotel room and then we'll go down to the pool or the beach or whatever and i actually don't miss it no if it's on me i will check it all the time so after we finished recording the last episode i could see i had alerts i checked it blah blah blah blah if that hadn't been there i wouldn't have thought what's going on it is something about it being there that absolutely like my skin crawls with it do you know what i mean our phones have trained our brains to do this
14:17Dr Martha Deiros Collado:like we need to be aware right the people who have created smartphones have have made apps and
14:23Josh Widdicombe:you know the notifications well they make more money the more addictive 100 the more you need
14:27Dr Martha Deiros Collado:it to have it close to like you know look at it the more you feels like an essential part of your world and if you talk to teenagers who have smartphones and now with like the band they they speak like that they speak in these absolute terms like my life is over if i can't have my phone and I'm like this is wild like the way that these big bros have literally text rows yeah yeah but like they've totally tricked our brains and believing that this is an essential part of our life when actually it's really not none of us go off to our desktop every five minutes and check our emails we would never do that it's because they're in our pockets and I always think of them a bit like pets I have all these visual analogies because that kind of works for me but you know you pick it up and a bit like you said you checked it like you're right little one yeah you need something i'm like it's not a pet yeah it's like the adult tamagotchi of our time we don't need to keep them alive no they're fine so we and and we're better when we have space that doesn't mean like i love tech that doesn't mean you don't have a phone doesn't mean you can't use it but maybe you need to learn how to use it in a healthier way so how do you do that you do need it that's what I'm saying you do need a phone, don't you?
15:38You have to, when I go and park the car, I need the app to park the car. A hundred and everything's on that phone. There's not another way to pay for parking. It's a nightmare. And then you use that as an excuse, you're back on it. So you said when the kid starts school, have a phone for logistics, communication, no apps. And so, were you going to ask about the social media ban?
15:57Josh Widdicombe:I was, but just to play devil's advocate for a moment, right? This I agree with. Rob agrees with, you agree with. we all agree that is how you should relate to your phone.
16:09Dr Martha Deiros Collado:But how do you do it?
16:11Josh Widdicombe:That is good practice and good theory. But the truth is, it's an eternal conversation we've been having with each other for years. And all of my friends are having. They're all addicted to their phones.
Read the full transcript
16:25Dr Martha Deiros Collado:So what do you do? You need to break it. You need to break it, but you need to think of it as a habit, not an addiction. Break the addiction, not break the phone. Not the phone. Yeah, and I think if you think about it as an addiction, And I talk about this in my book because if we talk about something like an addiction, it's called The Smartphone Solution. Good name, actually. Yeah. And the solution is not just for our kids, it's for us. Because a lot of what I talk about in my book is for you. So I think the way I think about it is if you think about it as an addiction, it's something that's really hard to, I can't stop.
16:56Dr Martha Deiros Collado:It's like I'm out of control, right? If you think about it as a bad habit, you're suddenly like, oh, okay, maybe I can introduce a good habit. Yeah, because I'm not addicted to picking my nails. is a bad habit that I do when I'm a bit stressed. So it's bad habits that we've, our thrones have taught us this. So also it's not our fault. But I think for me, it's about little habits. And we can all do this. Go on, hit me with some. So number one, I call it a family pledge, but especially with teenagers, you agree some rules. So simple rules, and they don't have to be the same in your house as they are in mine.
17:30Dr Martha Deiros Collado:But why don't you agree spaces in your house where tech is allowed, phones, and spaces in your house where there isn't any.
17:37Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, good idea. One rule.
17:39Dr Martha Deiros Collado:You can still carry it, but when you're in that space, you don't look at it. And if you do look at it, you all agree you can remind each other.
17:46Josh Widdicombe:I think the truth of the matter is if I'm carrying it, I've lost the battle. But I'm trying to give you little habits, right? Sarp your pockets.
17:55Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I'm the same, Josh. If I have it on me, that's game over. So again, plug it in. Think of it as parking your car.
18:03Josh Widdicombe:you plug it
18:04Dr Martha Deiros Collado:you plug your phone and you walk her off to your house it's stuff like it's that distance helps right but it's little tiny little things like for me having sand spaces like we have no phones in our bedrooms makes a really big difference I need to do that but it's stuff like
18:17Josh Widdicombe:oh I need to set the alarm tomorrow you can buy an alarm clock I know I know of course but it's well get one buy it now get your phone out buy it also there's some get your phone out quick phone solution get your phone out use it to buy something to stop using it yeah exactly yeah for me it's like tiny tiny little
18:39Dr Martha Deiros Collado:tweaks like we can all do it switch off all your notifications so i did this and i cannot tell you how long it took me to switch off all the notifications any app you download automatically
18:49Josh Widdicombe:i know i try and say no i try and say no to those i want to do it now live no you can't it'll take
18:53Dr Martha Deiros Collado:you hours it took me hours do you have to go into the settings and do it one of the time It's awful. No, I've got a lawnmower. My lawnmower tells me it started lawnmowing. I'm not kidding, though. I quite like that one, though. Your phone does not want to make this easy for you because it doesn't serve them. Oh, God. But if we all did it, even if you're like, which one can I do? Which one can I begin with? If you start doing it, you're also teaching your teenager something. And then if you all kind of do it together, messily, imperfectly, like I said, I've been carrying my phone a lot more. But my daughter's like, you're playing with us.
19:26Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Why is your phone out? I'm like, oh, sorry. you know as soon as it's off my person i forget a bit like you i totally forget it's there but she's good at reminding me and of course she's only seven she's not 17 but i do think it's never too late as soon as you start setting this up it's a bit like i do say this and i believe it your kids don't remember the kind of lectures you give them no do this do that whatever mom you know whatever dad but actually the little habits you instill in your house the traditions they do they will remember them i do stuff that i did in my house because that's what we did in my house not because there's a logic does that make sense yeah so there's an opportunity really because if you're about like the stage that we're now where when my daughter gets to year seven maybe she gets a phone obviously no social media band might come in by them but no social media it's just a phone that does you know maps and messages and stuff like that um and then we go here's your phone but from now we're all gonna have a family house phone rules yeah and it gives you and if okay because then if you're learning together with your daughter or your son then it's sort of a starting off point absolutely and also it makes them feel included so I've heard all these things I'm sure you have as well like set a contract for your kid you know do this do that and I'm like well those like strict rules like you're not allowed a phone here you're not allowed like that's fine but if you're not doing the same as they're gonna be like well this is mean firstly and two you don't believe in it because you do what you want yeah and then if you've got younger how does it work with younger siblings so what normally happens is say you've got a 12 year old that's at school needs a phone now okay then the 10 year old is still at primary school doesn't need the phone because you're dropping off blah blah because well she's got one i want i feel left out now of course there's a danger it normally happens that the youngest child always gets everything a little bit sooner than the eldest one did i mean there's that so are you really hardline with i am well because that's what we're awful no it's not the way i'm really hardline about it i'm like you're not old enough you don't need it you're not old enough you know your sibling has it for these reasons and when you get that you will get one too well we had that discussion because our eldest 10 when we got one of the ears pierced we thought you know what what a great way for her to feel a bit older that isn't tech or whatever so she's got her ears and then the youngest one absolutely livid because of course and then she's got a friend that's got has done and whatever because every household has different ages but we're like well no and we just said no you've got to wait till 10 because once it's not because you think it's unfair on the youngest but actually it's unfair on the eldest because they waited and then it's equal but i think your kids are allowed to be disappointed i mean i say this all the time i know it's like a separate topic but i guess with smartphones there's a lot of disappointment yes yeah your job as a parent is not not to disappoint your child like disappoint them like it's part of life and it's okay yeah they're allowed to be angry with you they're allowed to be upset and be like this is really unfair and you can say but when you're 10 12 whatever you'll get it too like don't worry like something to you look forward to and i don't know i think it's important i think it's important to wait um so the social media ban i know i sort of saw the headline of it and because our kids are younger it doesn't immediately impact us so i didn't look into it so what what are they saying it's banned for under 16s yes and that encompasses like all forms of social media no so what will be banned and you say banned and were you pleased oh this is a big topic isn't it was I pleased can I just say from my perspective
22:58Josh Widdicombe:a 7 and 8 8 and 5 year old and I don't know whether you felt like this Rob I thought I'd been thinking this is coming down the hill this is coming down the hill when that came out i was like oh thank god i'm so glad my daughter's not five years older because i feel like that's going to save me somewhat protect you protect me because i felt like you know it's much easier to police like that and i know people go well
23:32Dr Martha Deiros Collado:people will just break the rules of course but that will happen anyway but i'm banned murder
23:37Josh Widdicombe:because people just commit money. So what, as an expert, that was my layman's feeling was, thank God.
23:45Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Okay.
23:45Josh Widdicombe:That's handy.
23:46Dr Martha Deiros Collado:With wearing my mum hat, I feel like you, Josh. But wearing my professional hat, I don't feel like I'm an expert in anything, but wearing my professional hat...
23:55Josh Widdicombe:You are a clinical psychologist. In that case, we've wasted an hour and a half of our time. What am I doing here? Please don't tell me you're not an expert on the first expert when we've done. It's the last thing we need.
24:05Dr Martha Deiros Collado:All right, I'm an expert. I would say I was disappointed is my okay okay so the thing and this isn't to scare anybody I'm really anti-fearmongering on this topic I think there's a lot of that a lot of like escalating of panic and I'm like that doesn't help anybody like having fear in your body as a parent does not help you make healthy choices right so I think it's disappointing because what they've is certain apps. And that does not encompass the scale of what social media looks like for kids. So one, they're going to bypass it by using a different app. VPNs. Also, tech moves much faster than legislation.
24:45So do you think it's more...
24:47Dr Martha Deiros Collado:No, I mean, like, instead of using... For example, instead of using Instagram, they'll just use WhatsApp.
24:54Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, basically, Friends Reunited. So what you're saying is this is an excellent time to get in the market with a new social media app that isn't on the list.
25:01Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I think there's lots of people doing exactly that.
25:02Josh Widdicombe:So it's just bad news
25:04Dr Martha Deiros Collado:But they already exist as well and kids know what they are so they'll just divert to something else.
25:09Josh Widdicombe:So what can you do about that?
25:11Dr Martha Deiros Collado:So I think the disappointment for me is that they really needed to put the onus not on us the parents or on the kids because it feels like a lot of it is the kids. Yeah. They needed to put it on the tech people and say unless you create you know apps like this following this guidance we will ban them completely like just banned like we just don't let them exist but they haven't done that right they haven't put that pressure on tech because you can you can create healthy like safe technology it is possible these are super intelligent people who create of course you know these incredible platforms of course you can design them better and you can design them safe by design they're choosing not to like we need to be aware that they're doing this because they're in their own game.
25:57So Instagram under 16s where it's basically like there's no likes, there's no, you know, all the things that calls. Is there a world
26:03Josh Widdicombe:in which you could imagine a social media app you would let your teenager on?
26:07Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I think if they made it safe by design, I would. And what do you mean by safe by design? So safe by design means any of that content would not be allowed on like at all. But they allow it. We know this, right? Yeah, totally. But I would say that the problems
26:19Josh Widdicombe:go deeper than that, right? Yeah, I mean, the problem goes deeply. Which is the whole way it's constructed. 100 % is not the sheer way the apps work the it's the problem
26:31Dr Martha Deiros Collado:that's the problem I mean we need to be aware that that's the problem so I think the ban is helpful in terms of changing social norms you know the whole like all the kids are on Instagram that's obviously going to over time and it will take years but over time it will fall to like your kids and my kids will never be on it fingers crossed do you know what I mean because they'll be like it's not the norm it'll be a new thing
26:55Josh Widdicombe:as well
26:56Dr Martha Deiros Collado:the kids are not using it so why would they be on it
26:58Josh Widdicombe:yeah and what are kids going to watch if they're not watching Rob's Golf Channel
27:01Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I don't know good question
27:03Josh Widdicombe:Bluey? well maybe it's a good you know just a guy trying his best to get better there's positivity on there
27:09Dr Martha Deiros Collado:so I think it changes social norms which is great but I think it doesn't kind of unfortunately for me and for you for parents it doesn't absolve us of having to teach our kids how to use it so there was this like research that was done and the data is in my book and within like two and a half minutes of tick tock boys are sent violent violent pornographic misogynistic content yeah and girls are sent things to do with their bodies like beauty and yeah it's preying on the primal instincts of your worst personality traits vulnerability it preys on vulnerability it doesn't prey on interest right you're into golf they're going to send you a golf video they're going to send you something that's like are you vulnerable with this let me test it out if you're vulnerable about something there's more likely you're going to watch it or click on it because it's okay how can i solve this yes we're actually and it's that fear-mongering and kids teenagers are much more vulnerable than adults because as an adult like you were saying you'll do it and you're like oh my god it's serving me all this content i don't really want to watch it yeah you know kids brains are not like that yeah they are a lot more like they're more impulsive so they'll watch something and they'll watch it just out of curiosity or even out of like distress and they're like i can't click away from it yeah like a rabbit in the headlights and so they're stuck and so the algorithm goes you like it so then you just get more and you know it's just oh it's such a minefield and i think as a parent you need to think the band helps and it's not a full solution yes so you still need to be honest you can't rest on your laurels no you can't you have to keep having the conversation it feels to me from
28:48Josh Widdicombe:talking to you like the the kind of rules that you're you're in the episode one you're talking about dialogue experiencing together being a part of you know someone your child can talk to yes all these kind of things that's kind of the golden area that you need to be in for this because if If you're trying to beat them in a fight of who controls the internet, they're cleverer than you and they're going to win.
29:15Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Absolutely. I think that is the core of everything I talk about because it's true. And also I think when you have a teenager, they might not come to you. So I am going to say this because it's important. I don't want you to feel like, oh my God, I've done something and my kid doesn't trust me. If you think about being a teenager, there's lots of things where I'm not going to my mum and dad. Although teenagers these days are different from us. I meet lots of teenagers who are like, I went straight to my mum. You know, I'm like, oh, my God, it's so gorgeous that they actually have that relationship.
29:43Dr Martha Deiros Collado:So don't give up and have a conversation with your teen. If you've got a teenager about I always say five people, but it could be three. It could be ten. Who are the people that you trust that you would go to if it wasn't me? Because as a parent, you need to know who are these people and can they be, you know, it might be family, it might be somebody's mum, somebody's dad, whoever. and I would say as adults make connections with those people and say if my kid comes to you I'm completely okay with that yeah I trust you you know have the conversation about come to me if it's really important because teenagers will they'll often tell their best friends mum rather than you yeah they're also not like these teenagers have this idea of these like smoking naughty crazy kids a lot of them are sort of scared and vulnerable and then when they make a mistake they're embarrassed they're not engaging you because they're too cool they don't know we hate you mom it's often embarrassing i'm ashamed the hate thing is about is a front yeah right yeah that's completely like this is my kind of mask yeah especially the grumpy teenager i'm like i actually love a grumpy teenager maybe i won't love it when it's my daughter but i do love them because like underneath they're so vulnerable and soft and they're just kids so But often you need to see past it and not kind of jump on them immediately.
30:59Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Especially if they do something wrong. See something bad. Like I talk about this a lot. But if you want to build that relationship of trust, like don't, you know, feel like you have to put on a really hard consequence on your teenager because something awful has happened. Actually be the person who goes, yeah, like you watched something and I don't like it. Like say it's porn, you know, I don't like that you watched it and this is why I don't like it. And if you're going to do it, this is what I'd rather you did or can you keep talking to me? For example, you can't have your screen in your room.
31:28Dr Martha Deiros Collado:You can still be like the parent who goes, I get it, you're curious, you're interested, your mates are watching it and I'm not giving you unfiltered access to it. Like if you don't have that conversation and they are able to think, oh, okay, we can communicate about it, we can set new rules, but you will listen to me. They're just going to go and do it behind your back, which is a bigger risk for me because you don't know what they're doing. All right, Josh, we're going to switch things up and get into a game of guess the kid slang in this special segment brought to you by Tesco Mobile. Now, I don't know about you, Josh, but I haven't got a clue what most of this means.
32:04So that means you have no idea either. OK, I'll be honest. I often get these things completely wrong. Let's do this. This is a little while ago, but my kids did say a turn of phrase to me. And I try to be a little bit more current than you do. yeah I'm a bit out of the touch because I'm 40 but my kid said skibbity toilet riz so what skibbity toilet riz she's cat man john great example and I have no idea what skibbity skibbity toilet riz I still don't know I think it's more just like a gibberish that they say I think riz is it's charisma is it yeah is that what it's from charisma he's got riz he's got
32:48Josh Widdicombe:Oh, wow, wow, wow. You might do better than this. I've got a list here. Okay, go on. You might do better than this than I think. Right, okay. Stop glazing. Is this too like the normal use of glazing over? So I think it would be like not listening, like just looking into the distance. No. It's slang for overly praising someone. See, glazing it too much, because a donut with a bit of glaze is nice. You've improved the donut. Looksmaxing. Looksmaxing. That is like... Looksmaxing. Yeah, that's like making yourself look the best as possible on social media. Yes, a slang for maximising your looks. Yeah.
33:32She's Leng, they're Leng, he's Leng.
33:34Josh Widdicombe:Leng. They're Leng. They are just a great guy or girl. Attractive or good looking. Oh. So you could say, Josh is Leng now after his skin routine and he's really looks maxing. Let's not push it. He's looks maxing and he's not close to Leng yet. And finally, they are clapped. Exhausted. No, but I think that's a good term. It's not right. Someone's clapped. They're clapped. They're the best because they just get so many claps. No, they're ugly. Oh, that's a shame. Negative, isn't it? The thing is, not understanding what your kids are saying makes it a lot harder to understand what's going on in their online world.
34:12Josh Widdicombe:asking your kids what Riz means isn't about being a cool parent it's a great way to open up and chat about their online lives these conversations help us to keep up which helps to keep them safe and if you need a hand starting them the Tesco mobile online safety hub is definitely worth a look
34:31Josh Widdicombe:we three people that talk are talking from the perspective of none of us have got teenagers yet and we're talking about what we're going to do.
34:38Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Yes.
34:38Josh Widdicombe:What if I'm someone who's going, I've got a 13-year-old who's on these things. I think I've made a mistake with that. That's tougher than saying to a 7-year-old, you're no longer having YouTube. Of course. To say to a 14-year-old, you're no longer having Instagram.
34:55Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I think you negotiate with them. And I think negotiation is what it is. As a parent, you can say, I think you're on it for too much, and this is why, or what I notice. I always try and frame it not from like an emotional perspective. Talk about your emotion. I'm worried about you. You spend six hours on your phone in your room, for example. I don't like it. I don't know what you're doing on it. I wish you were spending more time with us downstairs, in the kitchen with me, whatever, reading a book, whatever. You know, name the stuff. And then say really openly with them, what do you think is an okay amount of time for you to be in your room doing whatever you're doing?
35:35Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Okay. negotiate and often people go no because if I say that to my teenager they'll say six hours they won't like I actually talk to teenagers and they often will say things like I wish my parent was harder on me genuinely do you think a lot of
35:48Josh Widdicombe:teenagers feel trapped by their phones yes absolutely and actually giving them
35:52Dr Martha Deiros Collado:that and allow I talked about disappointment but it's okay to say to your kid six hours is too much what does feel right and if they say for you it's still a win yeah you know it's a win for you and it's a win for them and then think about it as you might expand those you know that two hours you've got back with your kid make it worthwhile don't just say to kids go do something else yeah give them something that's worth doing go to the driving range or something
36:23keep yourself busy yeah the Ryder Cup stuff like that yeah it doesn't all have to be golf I just No, no.
36:32Dr Martha Deiros Collado:But 100%. Like, don't just be like, now busy yourself, because they won't. They'll be like, well, this is really boring. But if you make it worthwhile, like when you come off, we'll do this, you make it fun. Over time, what will happen is they'll start to sneak downstairs more. Because the stuff that's here is actually more valuable to me. So many teenagers, when they've had experiments with, they put their phones away, will say, it's been great. I've really enjoyed it. most of them will say that rather than that was awful
37:02Josh Widdicombe:I don't believe that I've ever I don't think I've ever come off my phone happier than when I picked it up do you know what I mean it never satisfied I never go oh that was good and now I'm done you feel worse you're never satisfied with it
37:18Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I think that's true because there's always something else on it's like 24-7 every day of the year it's like a to-do list that never ends I think it's so important to teach our kids that our brains and bodies need rest and time away from tech. Because we haven't learned that very well. No. And it's a hard lesson for us to learn, but when we do it, we feel better. But after feeling bad, it's an opportunity to do it together with our kids. 100%. If you're at that stage, you're lucky. Make a pledge with them. Make a pledge. I pledge also not to have my phone at night and scroll in a bed or whatever it is.
37:50Dr Martha Deiros Collado:And make yourself accountable. So if your kids see to you, go, you're doing it now.
37:54Josh Widdicombe:But it feels like the conclusions from both episodes it's really about connection, dialogue.
38:00Dr Martha Deiros Collado:I mean, it's like all of parenting. It's not about saying the right thing. It's about being with your kid and building a relationship, which is, it's forever. I often think about this as a mum and it's daunting, but I want my kids to be in my life forever, not just until they're 18 and they're off. Yeah. I don't want to be the parent who just gets a call on their birthday and Christmas. I want my kid to be like, something good happened to me today. Oh, it'll make me emotional. I'll be on the phone and call my mum I'll be great for the video I'm very easy to tears but I think you know I want them to be like something good happened today I'm the first person they want to call you know how do you feel if he wasn't the first person they called I mean I'd be okay what can I do you can't make that choice right but me and my husband have this conversation 100 % you know they get married they have their own family you're trying to make her cry you are I was going to say me and my husband have this conversation sorry that was really mean I'm sorry no it's not I like your message.
38:58Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Me and my husband would not, I mean here we go, would not call our parents first when something happens to us. I would never pick up the phone and call my mum. That's just not who I think will be there for me. I call my husband and I'm his person too which is like, I think that's magical because you don't always find your person. You know, I do think as a couple the question I always ask is, is this the person who will be there for you at your hardest time? and if the answer is no, there's a problem. That'll work with lots of couples. But, you know, if you're like, this is the person who's always there for me when I need them the most, he's always there for me.
39:35And if the answer is no, there's a problem.
39:37Dr Martha Deiros Collado:There is, yeah. What I love about that is we've done sort of two episodes now on sort of online safety and the kids and devices and stuff like that. But someone listening to that, all of a sudden they're questioning their entire relationship with a partner. That's what they're going to leave with. And so I think for me, the core is always your relationship. Yeah. Like always. And I think as long as you focus on that, you're going to mess up. You're going to get things wrong. You're going to, you know, let your kid watch something and then go, I regret it. Yeah. That's life. That's just parenting.
40:05Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Like, no one is a perfect parent and your kids don't need a perfect parent. I was going to say the Sims thing. I love that example because, yes, your kid can watch them getting at it under the sheet and still be okay if you're the kind of parent who then sits there, talks to them, sues them.
40:20Josh Widdicombe:Thank you so much.
40:22Dr Martha Deiros Collado:My pleasure.
40:23Josh Widdicombe:The book is called The Smartphone Solution.
40:24Dr Martha Deiros Collado:It's about building healthy habits with tech. That's what Smartphone Solution is about and how you can do that as a family.
40:31Josh Widdicombe:Brilliant. Dr. Marta, thank you. Thank you.
40:33Dr Martha Deiros Collado:Thank you. I like that, Josh.
40:38Josh Widdicombe:I see that as a companion piece. I thought they were separate, but really it's the same principles. It's the same kind of things, just taken on for different ages. Yeah, and I think it gave me a little bit of hope that there's an opportunity now to one, get a handle on my phone use as well as yes the kids we can do it together as a family i like the family pledge thing you've got a phone now well you've got phones no one's on their phones after seven o 'clock or whatever and the thing is your journey to understanding your kids online lives can start with something as simple as a chat and remember keeping up keeps them safe visit the tesco mobile online safety hub where tesco mobile have loads of tips on keeping you and your family safe online
From the publisher
In the 2nd of a series of special interviews with leading experts (and lets face it, people far more qualified than us!) to discuss important and relevant topics that impact and inform modern parenting - we had the pleasure to sit down again with the brillaint Dr. Martha Deiros Collado to discuss online safety, device and screen usage - this time amongst teenagers and also parents, and what they can do to help.
We loved speaking with Dr Martha in collaboration with @Tescomobile.
If you’re looking for advice on how to have that chat or tools to help keep your family safer online, visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub.
https://www.tescomobile.com/online-safety
@Tescomobile - Keeping up keeps them safe.
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