Loose Neck vs. Stiff Neck

15:06Josh Widdicombe:Where did you plug in a switch in a cinema? Where are the wires? Wireless. Oh. So you're in this cinema with eight kids on your own. Was it a drop-off party? Were there parents there as well? Drop-off. Fucking hell, mate. Oh, my God. I had one or two of my, like, mum friends, you know, stay. I have a very small mum and friend circle and they immediately went and got me rosé as soon as the bar opened. So you see, I was struggling. They kind of spoke to me and said, it's okay, the bar opens at 11. I just went out and got me rosé. Genuinely that. And I know it sounds bad. I don't want to be frowned upon, but even on holiday with the kids, after a few days, it is just non-stop, in the pool, running here, running there.

15:49And they're like, I want to do this. And then they argue over who gets to float. And it's just classic kid stuff. Whether you're on holiday or at home, they're always bickering. but when it gets like midday and I've had like I'll go I'll just get a little beer like that it does I don't know if it makes parenting easier or you're just just dead to it but it does make a

16:06Josh Widdicombe:difference yeah but do you know what imagine if you went to pick up your kids from school and the teacher's like come midday it got tough mate I've had a couple of beers this afternoon sorry have you ever walked in towards the end of being one of the early parents to pick up which I'm not there every day like a nanny that helps me as well but sometimes i go and i just catch the energy as i hit the door and she's releasing them back into the world you know when they get to the door and they're going yeah that's your one that's your one when it's thrown about and you get there and you catch their energy of like you look in that class and you think fucking hell 32 kids one one yeah she must be like really like that is a lot isn't it that's a lot of little energies in one close space.

16:50Josh Widdicombe:I'm not doing you down here, but you've just gone, I had to look after eight children, and you had a Nintendo Switch.

17:01Josh Widdicombe:You didn't have to teach them anything. I'm one of six, and I consistently think about, like, what the hell my parents, like, how they were coping, were all two years apart. So it was just like a class of children. Constantly, I don't know how they weren't drunk.

17:22When you were growing up, did you just sort of like break off into little sections of the siblings, like the sort of the younger three and the older three? Yeah, because we were also, we were two girls, two boys, two girls. And we were in bedrooms together a lot. And me and my big sister, we danced a lot. We did a lot of like dance. In fact, my dance school was in Mottenham, actually. Oh, was it? Which one? It was called Cooper School of Dance. And it was like in a big community, all in community centres, like in the States. I was always like broken glass with my tap shoes to get in the front door Yeah, Mottenham's a bit lively for a kid to go dancing Yeah, like grinding on the floor of community centres a lot when I was six or seven I remember going to a party when I was 15 I was sick outside a church in a bush in Mottenham So did you grow up round that way?

18:06I grew up in Sydenham and Lower Sydenham Oh yeah, by the massive Sainsbury's Yeah, yeah, yeah You mean the Sainsbury's Centre It was called Sainsbury's Centre Yeah, it was called the Sainsbury's Centre And then it went to Sangerys. But it's huge, isn't it? That is biggest in the country.

18:19Josh Widdicombe:It's the biggest in the country. This is the worst bit of podcasting I've ever had. I know, sorry. Sorry. You've got to remember, Josh, you've got to remember, there was a time when you only used to get food from supermarkets. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then there came a time where you could buy televisions in supermarkets. Yeah. Yeah. And socks and stuff. And that was the first time that happened in Sydney with Save Centre. Oh, yeah. And there was toys and there was DVDs. The world was in there. Loved it. Yeah. Get yourself down there Josh Well I've got a connection to you dancing in Mottingham With your sister My wife went to the Brit school with your sister Oh she was in my sister's year Yeah Oh my gosh what did she study Oh god I don't know She said she just smoked and took herself too seriously Yeah everybody did there It doesn't narrow it down It just trained you up for being in the creative industries really Just smoke and smug it up a bit Yeah she said she was there with Amy Winehouse They had a bit of a thing because they had the same coat.

19:17Josh Widdicombe:But she was acting. And you might say, what was her biggest role? And she auditioned for the advert for more magazine that Billy Piper got where she burst the bubble. Wow. That's her big acting story. That was quite a big magazine, though, at the time. So, shove your Macbeth up your arse, mate. I know, right? I was once down to the last tooth for a Cheesestrings advert when I was 11. Really? Interesting Which was a bit distressing when I watched the advert It was the one where all the kids were like dancing on the street Like this going, bend me, shake me Anyway Oh yeah, that's that advert Some of the kids were doing backflips in it Yeah What's distressing about that is they made it sound like Oh you were down to the last three, like as if they picked one But actually when you watch it there's about 35 kids So essentially I just didn't make it Top 40 Top 60, yeah You got down to the last 40 for that job.

20:16Do you know what? Every commercial audition when you were a kid back then in the 90s when no one knew what they were doing was you popped a CNA just before to get something good to wear. And then you went there and they would literally just put on pop music and go, okay, kids, you like cheese? Have a good time. And it would just be kids in a room. Yes. Oh, my God. And then they'd go, you, you, you, you're through.

20:35Josh Widdicombe:Is there things you've auditioned for where when you've seen who it's gone to, you've gone, you've got to be fucking kidding me? Yes.

20:47I thought I'll just say yes Yes And I'll say that yes and yes And we'll leave it back

20:58Josh Widdicombe:Hello Richard Osman Hello Josh Riddicombe, how are you? I'm very good, how are you? Who is this gentleman?

21:03Richard Osman:Hi Rob here, I'm Josh's assistant I take notes Work experience Pretty much We're doing it in person Richard, which is exciting It's much more fun doing it in person I think I don't know because I find it weird. I find it. He doesn't like being in the room with us, Josh. No, I love being in the room with you, but for a podcast... Tell your face, mate. I haven't got a face for telling you, but I think sometimes, not in person, I don't even like the camera on, really, I'm experiencing what the person's saying the same way as the listener. So if you listen to this as a punter, just as a general listener, you don't see each other's faces and what they're doing.

21:37Do you want to close your eyes? I can do that. Do you want to just close your eyes? How's that for you, though? because I'm just sat with my eyes shut. My mum warned me about this. A basement in Soho.

21:48Richard Osman:Just slip this mask on, Rob, would you? And just pop my trousers down, Richard. But we're very excited to have you.

21:54Josh Widdicombe:We've wanted to have you on the podcast for years. Really? I didn't know what you should have done. I should have asked. We did, but you said in person it was lockdown. At one point I messaged you

22:04Richard Osman:and you said you didn't have a laptop, which I just thought was fucking mental. You said I didn't have a laptop with the internet on or something. No, I think I don't like doing podcasts at home, I'd always say, oh, I don't have the tech. Yeah, I know, but that's weirder than just say I don't like the... If you said, I don't like doing podcasts at home... No, but people take offence then. I don't. People go, yeah, but ours, though, ours is quite a fun one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've never said that. Yeah, yeah, good. Or they'll say, all we need you to do is think of 14 things. You have to think of...

22:33What's your guilty pleasure?

22:35Richard Osman:Nothing. You shouldn't be judged on what you like. Yeah, exactly. And then that sort of kills the mood. What's your perfect Sunday? Not this. Not thinking of this stuff. I'm a zero prep guy. That's my dream. Are you the same? Yeah, I am really. Usually the first thing I say is going to be the best thing you're going to get out of me. By and large, the more prep I do.

22:54Josh Widdicombe:So you're a briefing call guy when you do a panel show. Yeah. Last leg or something. If they call you up and briefing call you, you usually... I'm all right.

23:01Richard Osman:Do you refuse it? No, I don't refuse it. Of course not. No. It's always good to talk to people. And it calms the producers down. Yeah. Do you know what? That's always the thing. Producers. You know the thing when... Bloody producers, eh? Now you're on the other side. I always remember when, yeah, honestly, what is their problem? I always remember whenever a young comic starts getting big, and you boys both went through this, you'll get booked on shows. One of the big things is they send you a car. And every young comic is like, oh, my God, I've made it. Like, they sent me a car because I'm pretty big time now.

23:30Richard Osman:And the truth is a producer doesn't send you a car because you're big time. A producer sends you a car because they need to know where you are. It's essential, like having a bug, because they don't trust you. They know you're an idiot. They tell you to turn up to the studio two hours early because they know you're going to be two hours late. And they need to know that you're in a car and the person who's driving that car can ring them. That's all they need.

23:50Josh Widdicombe:And also, they know when you've been picked up. And a bit of a backstage from the last leg. For years, Alex Brooker didn't know that. So he was giving his excuses for being late. No. Not knowing. That the cab driver said he's only got in. They had a record of when he was getting in the car. Sorry, the car didn't show up. Sorry, guys, the car was late. and they're like oh Alex he should know by now shouldn't he he does know by now

24:14Richard Osman:he certainly knows now he certainly knows now that's for sure he's very good Alex Brooker isn't he oh he's great he's my favourite on that show yeah I mean because you need one comedian yeah exactly otherwise you're just two journalists yeah he melds it together yeah like you need because Adam's quite a tough job live show holding together the script like that then you've got the sort of news anchor person whatever you do and then funnies with Brooker I was watching one the other night it was that Mel B was on it was a new record for you can always tell when Alex has got a joke, right? So I'm going to say something.

24:44Richard Osman:It's like, but Mel B, who's not used to working with comics maybe, she talks so much, I think he did six. Oh, it's like when... God bless him, he's still got it out. Come on, Mel! I was really counting. I was like, what's Brooker got here? He's got something about the thing that Adam said about two and a half minutes ago now. And it must be good because there's such a big gap there.

25:07Josh Widdicombe:Poor old Mel B.

25:11Josh Widdicombe:I'd say you and Alex Brooker fall into the same pool which is people that you book not as comedians but they're as good as comedians. Yes. So you'd book them on A League of Their Own or Last Leg or something.

25:25Richard Osman:I've always been lucky like that because by and large when people watch you on things if you boys are on something and they go go on then make me laugh because it's your job. Whereas with me they're like the guy from Pointless is on this show. So as soon as you do a joke they're like oh my god this guy. You've seen the guy He doesn't do jokes He just did a joke I bet John Grisham's not this funny It's like yeah All I have to be is funnier Than John Grisham Whereas you have to be funnier Than Steve Martin Hardest job in the world Rob Toughest job in the world A doctor actually Both nurses and doctors That'd be bloody hell No comedian then doctor Then novelist Well that's what I think So you are an author now Yes I am Officially a really successful one There's probably a stat Backing up as most successful One ever or something More than Donaldson Excuse me More than Julia Donaldson Julia Donaldson has a long back catalogue.

26:11Richard Osman:Great answer. Great answer. So she sells, you know. But pound for pound. She's still selling Gruffalos. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, not personally. She wrote that a long time ago. It's done. It's done years ago. And like every week, just the money just keeps running in for Donaldson. And the guy who did the pictures.

26:27Josh Widdicombe:Axel Schaeffler.

26:28Richard Osman:I do think that Donaldson, like, obviously she wrote the Gruffalo, but who drew the Gruffalo? Axel Schaeffler. I know, but he still doesn't get enough respect. I didn't know his name. He gets the money. They 50-50 it. Yeah. Fuck Yeah that's I was going to call them The drawers That's put me off Right in a picture book Not drawers No no Illustrators Illustrators Illustrators I shouldn't be the Vocab man in the room Yeah Scheffler is Oh he's raking it in Don't you worry about Scheffler Oh Scheffels Oh yeah if you went to Scheffels house It would take you a long time And Donaldson lives in

26:54Josh Widdicombe:Quite a small house No she doesn't She does

26:56Richard Osman:No Isn't that one of her books Because Donaldson lives in A very small house She opens the door She opens the window though. Well, that's true, isn't it? What's that book? What, Domson's book? Room on the Broom? No, not that one. There's one about a house where there's not enough room in the room or something. Is there? Was it not just an email to her estate agent? She does live in a small house somewhere. No way. Yeah. Let's talk about your empire, man. What you got? We've got a place in the room. We got locked. You're fucking loaded. No, listen, honestly, listen, we're on a parenting podcast.

27:31Richard Osman:I don't need the space anymore. Right. Yeah, of course. Okay. And that's a producer. No, no, no. No, no, no. What is this? Someone trying to get evasive about how big their house is. That's what that is. You don't give a fuck about this show. You just want to flog your new book. What's it called? Last Devil to Die. September the 14th. September the 14th. The fourth in the series. The fourth in the Thursday Murder Club series.

27:52Josh Widdicombe:People seem to be loving it, which is lovely. You've got two kids.

27:55Richard Osman:I do, yeah. How old are they? They are 25 and 23. Just going back to 23. How often do you hear from a 25 and a 23-year-old? I mean, I would say enough.

28:08Richard Osman:No, it's interesting that because sometimes you think, I haven't heard from them in a little while. Is that bad parenting on my part? Is it bad children on their part? And then I think back to when I was 25, how often I talked to my mum. Yeah. Maybe like once a month. Yeah, yeah. Because we didn't have an email back in those days. Yeah. And I just thought, that seemed to work out all right. I still love her. She still loves me. Yeah. It's okay. So you have to slightly go, oh, it's okay that there'll be a few days go by and you haven't spoken to them or miss them. But yeah, I hear from them a lot, which is lovely.

28:34Richard Osman:and one of them's just around the corner from us, which is good. But no, honestly, it's great. I love that they're out there in the world. I love that they're self-funding. They're not like looking at the book charts going, Dad, come on, mate. Come on, mate. Do us a favour. You're saying what Julie O'Donnellson's kids are driving around. Yeah. I say, yeah, you've seen the house she lives in, though. Come on, mate. No, it's great. You and I did your live show and the one thing I felt I could pass along to that audience,

29:00Josh Widdicombe:because they look nagged.

29:02Richard Osman:Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, listen, they were making noise, but a lot of it was sort of, you know, what? Yeah. It's a tough gig because everyone in that room wants to go to bed. Oh, they're steeped down. I do know, Manford is the only person I've seen start his show with, just so you know, will be done by 9.45. Do you know what? And he's right to do it because TV shows, you always know when they're finished. Yes, yeah. But you go and see live shows like theatre sometimes. Oh, I hate it. You have to look it up and just go, three hours?

29:28Josh Widdicombe:Oh, my God. That's why I've never go to Bruce Springsteen. Oh, no, I never would. no thank you

29:34Richard Osman:it's too long yeah do 45 minutes oh and we'd love it wouldn't we I'd never go over 10pm with my shows my tour shows it's too much you start at 9.30 don't you quarter to 10 sometimes 15 minutes of gold everyone goes home that's why I love Edinburgh it's an hour and that's about the amount of time you should watch someone yes I agree I think maybe you know a little interval or something but yeah where do we get on to this you were talking to the crowd obviously they had younger kids a lot of the audience appearing in Hell live but yeah some of your advice was quite good. Yeah, no, I was saying that because it's hard with young kids and it really is hard.

30:07Richard Osman:So people are feeling bad about themselves. Really don't. There's very few harder things psychologically, emotionally and just physically than bringing up kids, especially if you've got a few of them or if you're doing it by yourself. But people always say, never ends though. Honestly, it never ends. Once you've got them, that's it forever. It's just, listen, it changes but it's always as hard. And that's absolute bullshit. It gets so much easier and pretty much every turn you know when you go to school it gets a bit easier but then you've got oh I've got to do nativity plays yeah it's a bit of admin and they've got swimming picking up and all of that kind of stuff but yeah as soon as they're old and they just hang out with their mates and you're like

30:44Josh Widdicombe:but even school is easy like you're going alright so I've got to do a school run and then I'm up against it and then maybe I'll have to work this evening but then when they go to sleep tonight they're asleep yeah why do they wake up every two hours yeah that is so tough at the moment with babies

31:00Richard Osman:Because it gets to the point where your kids start waking up at midday because they're teenagers. Or they get up at like 2pm. And there's a certain type of parent, of course, who's like, no, no, we must wake them up because we've got to go hiking. But if you're not that sort of parent, and I am not, you look at your watch, you go, it's 2pm. I've watched the Saturday lunchtime football game already. And he's not even awake yet. It's great. It makes me feel better about myself if someone's still asleep. I'm like, right, I'm getting stuff done. Yeah, and also you're the protector of the house. Yeah.

31:31Richard Osman:You know, people are sleeping upstairs. If someone were to burst in, you're there. Yeah, unless it's a really good bit of football. Oh, yeah, then he's upstairs.

31:41Josh Widdicombe:Lily Allen. Hello. Hello, how are you? I'm good, how are you? We're very good, we're very good. Thank you for doing... Oh, shit, we've already thanked you off air too many times. I told you, if you do it one more time, I'm going to go. I'm going to have to be honest with you, Lily. Josh is a really big fan. I'm a big fan of your music to the level... Yeah, but it's a bit too much of a fan. If I ever make a playlist for someone, I'll always put the song Cheryl Tweedy by you on the playlist, I think, as a masterpiece. Is that your favourite me song? No, but you can't put the classics, can you? You've got to show that you're kind of...

32:15Josh Widdicombe:You've got to give them a curveball, right, when you're making a playlist. Deep cuts of Lily Allen. Deep cuts of Lily Allen. Yeah, so Josh, what I would say is he has to get it out early doors or otherwise he keeps saying thank you. If I'm a big fan of someone's work, then I'll just say thank you for coming on the podcast. You know what, this is reminding me, the other day I was on holiday in Kenya and we ran into, do you know the artist Jack Pignati? Oh yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Was it toured on the platform, is that his song? Yeah. Yeah, and he was talking, I was talking about the olden days and he was like saying, he was like, yeah God, do you remember the Bush Hall gig?

32:50Which was like one of my first gigs and I was like, oh my God, you're such a fan, like I can't believe you came to those shows. And he was like, I was supporting you, you moron.

33:00I was like, oh. Awkward. And you just sat on a Land Rover in Kenya

33:07Josh Widdicombe:looking at giraffes as that goes on. We went on safari. Did you bump into Jack Peniarty in Kenya? Yeah, we ran into him in a hotel on this island called Lamu. Oh, wow. If you're not in Kenya for the safari, what's happening in Kenya? Why are you going there on holiday? I've not heard of it other than safari. You know what? I went there to meet Makita Oliver, my co-host of my podcast. Yeah. Miss me? She missed me. Are you just making it up for a great segue into the promo? Yeah, I made it up. I'm getting good at this. No, I had been to India with my husband for Christmas because my ex-husband had my children.

33:43So we planned this trip for ages and we got there and it was really cold. Oh. Right? Because we forgot to check what hemisphere it was in. Yeah, I just sort of imagine India's hot all the time, but it's not, is it? Yeah, right. So I went there for 10 days and then I got back and felt like I hadn't really been on a holiday, but I had to wait around because we were applying for our green cards. And so we were like waiting for our passports to come back. And Makita was on holiday with her mum in Kenya and I was jealous. So I literally just booked a ticket. I didn't even ask her. And then I just turned up.

34:16Romesh Ranganathan:Just turned up? Yeah. No, I did actually call her. I said, would you mind if I booked a ticket and came and joined you? And she said, no, not at all. That'd be great. And I said, good, because I've already done it. So it was like T4 on the Kenyan beach. Exactly. With you three, a little reunion. Exactly.

34:32Josh Widdicombe:You've got two children. Last summer, yeah. For our listeners, you've got two children. You live in America, right? I do, yeah. How old are they? 11 and 12. Right. Oh, so near teenager. Yeah. Okay, that awkward. Do they hate you at this stage? Are they bored of you? Or are they still young and sort of cuddly and sweet? Because I think you're heading towards the transition. Right, yeah. One of them is very cuddly, the younger one. The other one's not so cuddly, but adores me and is obsessed with me. So I am not there yet. It's funny because the younger one is like, you can tell that she wants to be a grown up, but she also really still like craves the cuddle, like wants to crawl into bed and watch TV.

35:11And she's still a bebe.

35:13Josh Widdicombe:And what's it like moving them to America? Is it a different parenting culture over there? Is it a different parenting culture? I mean, there's a lot of focus on playdates in America, which is like a bit different. I feel like in England, having your friend over for tea is something that happens like once every couple of weeks or something maybe. Whereas they seem to have play dates like every effing day. And do you have to be there, is it as much bonding for the parents as the kids or do you just drop them off at the door and then go to the shops for a couple of hours or do you have to be there as well?

35:43Usually it will be, if they're going to someone else's house then the parent will pick them up from school and take them to their house. Right. I'll go and pick her up after dinner. Oh, that's not too bad then. I thought the way you said it was felt like you had to be friends with the parents as well, which I find quite overwhelming. I don't really mind. I kind of keep a bit arm's length, you know? But you want to see the house they're going to, don't you? You want to be able to see where they're going, but you don't want to have to sit there and have a coffee with someone you don't know. When I forget an address, I like put it in Google Maps and look at the outside of the house.

36:12Really? To know where they're going? I'm like, hmm. I think we all do that. You want to know where your kid is, don't you? And I'm like, Marnie, what does Jennifer's parents do? on Zoopla. Oh, I love a Zoopla. How have they got a five-bedroom townhouse? Yeah, it's funny. I think everyone does that. You can't help it, can you? No. It's bad, isn't it? But I think it's just intrigue. I'm the same. If they're going for a... Yeah, 100%. They're going,

36:39Romesh Ranganathan:oh, do you get the address and I'll pick them up later? Yeah. And then you're like, let's have a look at that. And then you go, God, blah, one million they paid for that last year? What does he do? Well, when they turn up in a flash car, you're like, okay. Well, what I find really intriguing is the super flash car, modest house, or modest car, mental house. I'm like, what's going on here? Well, really rich people don't do things like buy flash cars or fancy clothes.

37:06Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, that's what they say about the experts on succession, said that people won't actually have that good furnished house or stuff because they're not into it. And for your kids in New York, Lily Allen being their mum, is that a non-event there? Whereas in this country, if Lily Allen's your mum, that's a huge deal. or what's it more like in New York? Is it a bit more? I wouldn't say I'm a non-event. No, but you know what I mean? It's not, you know, as being in London where you grew up, Jack Peñate coming in the school going. Yeah. I mean, you know what? Actually now, I mean, there are kids that do know who I am at their school.

37:44You know, sometimes when I walk them home, like there'll be like a little group of girls that like sort of follow us and then they sort of stare at me at the zebra crossing. And you're wearing a big dress in trainers, obviously. Obviously, yeah. On the school, right? You're not wearing, yeah. They don't really. Although my oldest one, sometimes I catch her listening to my music in her room.

38:02Josh Widdicombe:Oh, do you? Yeah, it's quite sweet. And, you know, now there seems to be like, every so often one of my songs, like, has a bit of a resurgence on TikTok. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, that's quite fun when that happens. And at Christmas, when your Keen cover is everywhere, do they listen to that? I'm not a fan of that song, are you? No. You're not. Lisa doesn't like that song. I do like the song when it's sung by Keane, but not me. It is very annoying. No, we do not listen to that song in my house. We don't listen to any of the music in my house. I've never been like, well, actually, I like. Back in the day when I used to drink.

38:39That was so quick. When I used to drink and do whatever else, then yeah, you know, I'd be like, have a listen to this that I wrote in the studio yesterday. And everyone's like, oh God, do we have to? And I'm like, yes. Listen to this verse. It's genius. If it makes you feel better, Lily... Oh, no, I know where this is going. This is unfair. He wrote a book about 90s TV and he once started reading out passages of it. Growing up in the 90s.

39:03Josh Widdicombe:In the green room of the last leg. Not to everyone, just to the person I was with. I'd just got sent a copy of the book and I was like, I'm really proud of this. And long story short, I don't drink anymore. Yeah. Do you know what? It's funny because in England, we're not meant to do that sort of thing. Yeah. In America, you would be expected to do that. Would you? Yeah. And that's one of the reasons that I sort of live there, because I think it's a much more encouraging environment for people. People don't cut you down for being, like, proud of your accomplishments. Yeah. They tend to lift you up.

39:38It gets a bit nauseating sometimes, but I think on the whole, it's a good way. They are way more positive and everyone's sort of enthusiastic for other people where Britain does want to drag you down. But I do think, you know, you've worked hard all day on producing The Last Leg. As a runner, the last thing you need is Josh reading the book. It wasn't the runner, Rob. It was someone I was giving the book to because they'd asked for a copy. Before I give this to you, yeah, I've signed it. Don't worry about that. Let me read a bit.

40:05Josh Widdicombe:I was just... Do you know what? I'm sorry for being proud of my work. You should be ashamed. I should be ashamed of everything I've done in my life, Rob. You should. Like all good English people. Exactly. So do you find like that there's a different culture in the schools and stuff over there? Is it much more kind of, there isn't that kind of enforced humbleness that we have then? What do you mean like in their style of teaching? Or just in terms of the kids and the culture over there, like is it much more like proud of themselves, much more kind of positive? Does that come down? Yeah, I think so.

40:39I think it is. I think there's a lot more encouragement and also not being ashamed of your failures. Like people really seem to be into the idea of that, you know, failure teaches you things.

40:50Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. Whereas in England, it's like, no, you're not good at that. Move on. Do something else. Whereas in America, it's like, you know, what did you learn from that?

41:01The Neighbours was on twice a day. That's what I learned from Josh's book. I think you just need to move on, Rob.

41:12Josh Widdicombe:Hello, Frank Skinner. Hello. We are very, very happy to have you on. Dream guest. Dream guest. We've been waiting a long time, Frank. Oh, sorry about that. No, it's all right. It's all right. The good things come to those who wait, etc. How are you? I'm splendid. Thank you very much. I'm still, you know, pottering around Biden style.

41:38I am refusing to stand down. That is the difference.

41:46Josh Widdicombe:Let's talk about parenting. You've got one son. Yes. How old is he? He's 12. He's 12. I actually met him, didn't I? I met you guys at the Downlow Festival with Romesh. We were so drunk. I felt really bad. You know when you bump into like, what is a really lovely father-son day out and the son's still quite young and you're just two marauding drunk lunatics. I was like, oh God, we're too pissed. Well, I didn't notice it. You were less drunk than Romesh. He was really bad. In context. you almost assumed it's over and so is the download festival is he into heavy metal music he's massively into heavy metal yeah and are you into heavy metal music well i was into heavy metal when i was about 15 16 17 and then sort of punk happened and i got into that moved into other sorts of things but it's all come back to me now the lure of heavy metal yeah and also to get older someone really screaming and playing a loud guitar is one of the few things that gets through the fog.

42:50I've taken to it again and discovered new bands. We were at a thing called 2000 Trees a couple of weeks ago, which is another festival. We saw ACDC at Wembley. Oh, wow. Yeah, we got Alice Cooper and Slipknot coming up this year. Was that December, the Slipknot one? Yeah, that's right. It's sort of Christmas.

43:13Yeah, it'd be lovely. We get the boat back from the Oats. It's on the 23rd, 21st of December. It will feel like a Christmas experience. And so is that your thing?

43:23Josh Widdicombe:Like, is that your kind of father-son bonding thing, is heavy metal music? Well, it's that and Doctor Who. So he's got Doctor Who, and he said to me, do you think we could go back, not to the very beginning of Doctor Who, but like the beginning of revival yeah 2005 and watch every episode and that for me oh it's like being in a hotel room and that woman saying like i'm not going to say something that you really like what i'm saying is it's always better when it's their idea

44:03Josh Widdicombe:and what are you like as a dad frank because i can't call it do you know what i mean having met you it was a bit like i know when this podcast first started it was about home schooling and all that stuff yeah i went into home schooling i thought this is going to be so good i will be like robin williams in dead poets society and i'll be really inspirational and day one i was saying to him eight and eight what is it thought about that and i've got that i've got a bit of irritability in me so because you you find you're obviously incredibly bright you're like fast in terms of wit but also you you are interested in so many things you've got a huge kind of hinterland should they say and like you know as you said in tv you're dealing with people possibly who aren't as you know good as you do you find then with a child difficult to kind of deal with the fact that they don't understand poetry and classical music opera no they don't it's not that i mean it's very very unusual for me to have a person in my life who i don't mind being funnier than me.

45:21Mind. Is that the first time that's ever happened? Yeah. So I can be genuinely, if he says something funny, I can be genuinely pleased, almost not quite as if I said it myself. Yes. There's a sort of selflessness. And you didn't have that with David Baddiel? I don't remember him ever making me laugh. That's not, that is not true. Can I? he phones me up about these things you know if i say anything like that clearly light-hearted he'll phone me up and say uh yeah i heard about that thing you said oh really yeah yeah i was speaking to once he was going on about a critic that wrote something about him in like 1999 and this was like last year he still remembers it he keeps me on a pretty tight leash as far i think of these as like body jokes you know but he texts them as personal slights so i have to

46:17Josh Widdicombe:keep them at a minimum okay all right and is he is he funny then like is there a because obviously you pride funny as a big thing yes the biggest the biggest the only even when he was very very young there was a strange i've never worked out whether this was accidental or whether it was some sort of deep subliminal stand-up comedy already manifesting in him. But he'd had his eyes tested at school. So he made an eye chart of his own and I had to be tested on it. And he'd made basic errors, like all the letters were the same size and things like that. It was at a time when he didn't say ABC, he said ABCA.

47:04So I had to read it like that. So we went through, he'd written the letters, and I got to this letter and I thought, oh, I can't quite work. I said, is that A? And he said, no. I said, is it E? And he said, no. And I thought, oh, I'm struggling. Maybe he's put a short stick. And I said, is it D? He said, no. I said, I give up. He said, it's a balloon. I remember thinking there was no agreement they would all be letters. You know what I mean? It actually works well as an actual joke. Yeah. But I don't know whether it was a balloon that he put in as a prank. There was a time, there's a street near me, and there's one of those with two poles sticking up that you have to drive through, which is always stressful.

47:55And I went through, and I slightly touched one of the poles, and I thought, it's only like beyond the black bumper. And then when I parked my car, I went in the house, and Buzz said, have you seen the side of your car? And I went out and it had a massive scratch on it. And I was really like, I'd had the car about three days. And I was got it. Actually, I had to sit down. I was so upset. He gave me about two minutes and then explained that was a sticker that he got out the Beano. He dashed out and put on. He'd been waiting for a moment. Exactly. He must have been buzzing in the back of the car.

48:30That's a good thing. He was hiding once under a blanket in his bedroom on the floor. I was going to go up and then something happened. And I went up about 10 minutes later and he jumped out and went, boo, he's tiny. And he was red and covered in sweat. And he stayed under that blanket, not wanting to spoil the joke. And I thought, that's my boy. He died writing for comedy, which is the name of my new slimming video.

49:03Josh Widdicombe:Is that a Middlesbrough mug? Yeah. Who? I did a gig in Middlesbrough. You know when you do a gig sometimes and you get like a little local themed gifs? Middlesbrough. It was a Middlesbrough mug and a Middlesbrough pen. And I think some Middlesbrough rock. Oh, really? Popular with Middlesbrough tourists. Yeah. I didn't know they were famous for their rock, Middlesbrough. No, I don't know if they are. I've never been to the beach in Middlesbrough. Is there one? There's a river because they play at the Riverside Stadium. Was it Janinho or someone got shown around London rather than Middlesbrough when he signed for Middlesbrough?

49:43Josh Widdicombe:Brian Robson never took him there. He just showed him around London and then they signed. It feels like an urban myth. Well, no, I've seen, you know, Carranca was their manager, the Spanish guy. I was on a train with him going up to Newcastle and then you changed, I think, from Newcastle to Middlesbrough. And then I was on the train with him the whole way, him and his wife. It was a bit awkward because obviously I don't imagine his wife wanted to leave Madrid for Middlesbrough. that's not normally the route you go she was sort of not looking too happy he was looking more and more nervous and as we got into Middlesbrough her fate and no offence to Middlesbrough but it's a jump from Madrid as it pulled into Middlesbrough Station the look she gave him of this is our life is it for four years it felt a real moment in time of just watching this couple the realisation like the wife of someone fleeing the mafia yeah yeah This is it now.

50:38How did it feel taking your son to the download and backstage and things like that? Because you're a slightly older dad and then you sort of think like your kids are younger and all different trends and stuff come in. Luckily, he was into heavy metal and stuff, but it must be pretty cool to be able to take him backstage at download where all the bands are. The Queens of the Stone Age were there and Royal Blood and you're right in it and having access to the bands. It must feel pretty cool as a dad. It is. It's brilliant. It also, though, I find myself saying to him, you know, my dad didn't introduce me to major bands and stuff like that.

51:12Yeah. I need him to know that it's special. Yeah. I've introduced him now to so many, you know, I've got photos of him with Judas Priest and Bruce Dickinson and stuff. And I love to be able to give him that gift, but I think if things went wrong on the career front and I ran out of money, I don't know how he'd be now, just being in row W at Amersmith Apollo. You know, it wasn't a problem my dad had, but it was the only celebrity things we had in our, any connection at all on our mirror in the living room. There was a signed photo of Noel Gordon. You know, that was Star Across the Crossroads. It was played by Helena Bonham Carter.

51:58My mum had seen her open a supermarket and a pound note signed by Ginger Baker from Cream. Because my dad worked at Land Rover and he was buying a Land Rover or receiving one. And in those days, people used to get like pound notes signed. Wow. As a kind of working class bravado. so it is brilliant to be able to do that but i'm probably setting up a precedent which um he's gonna at one point find i can't keep up that's it for this special best of episode