S10 EP40: Frank Warren

25:02How much of that can be taught by just kind of almost schooling these kids from a young age? Like, if Richard Williams has done that to Serena and Venus, how much of it is talent? And how many of these stories are people who've done that and it's gone nowhere? Do you know what I mean? Like, is it possible to do that with a child? Do you know what I mean? It has happened. But I also think, you know, all kids eventually leave the nest. that's human human nature yeah of course of their lives it's where they where they go from there and i've seen kids who have been with their fathers in boxing who've done extremely well and i've seen other kids where it's being an impediment to them yeah you know where the the father gets involved he knows it and he doesn't know it you know it's a business that we know it's a business but it's also you know a way of life and things that you have to do and you can't just pick it up like that just because you've got a talented job yeah yeah this is my 48th year you know i've been doing it a long time and if i don't know now i'm never going to know but you know you sort of see these things and you listen to them you know you've got this sort of radar now which you pick up on when somebody comes in with their parents and nearly all the youngsters come in with their parents as they should do and you you pick up on it and you can you know you get that sort of feeling probably you know 90 percent of the time you get it right where you know there's going to be a problem talking of problems what's it like when you've dealt in the past the most famous sort of dad and son in boxing at the moment the chris eubank senior and junior how were they to deal with you i mean because there's a difference between an overprotective dad but then when you're dealing with someone like eubank senior yeah

26:35well early days because we had a couple of fights for us uh chris junior and chris senior fought for me he had um he was originally with barry her and then he came with me and i think he had five or six fights for me and the only and i think he got beaten in four or five of them. Joe Calzacki beat him, I think. Cole Thompson beat him. Steve Collins. So, you know, he's a very valiant fighter. He got beat. Then Chris Jr. come and he had a couple of fights with us. And then he fought Billy Joe Saunders and Bill beat him. Then he went off and done his own thing. And then I had a couple of run-ins with him later, Chris Jr., which was hard work.

27:13But we resolved our differences. That's all been sorted now. There's a bit of an outburst at a press conference that's been sorted now isn't it it's being sorted to everybody's satisfaction especially and so when you say your son is the is he ceo or coo or i call him c i don't even know what the bloody he runs it yeah is he your boss he's the day-to-day boss and uh i mean i do do my day's work but he's what's your title then they call me chairman i can't even find anywhere to see

27:47how much do you kind of butt heads with your son like because that's an interesting working relationship because it's like obviously the thing you think of is like succession or something but in succession he never steps aside for his kids but you've done that you've stepped aside to an extent i know you're german but like you've handed it over to him how is that i mean i'm pretty much hands-on or was really hands-on with everything yeah as far as the business side of it i'm very good at going out and generating business and selling the business and promoting it and that the backroom stuff i've had a couple of people who have given positions in the company given them shares especially one of them it didn't work out in a big way you know and sometimes i don't wish my son's life away i wish he'd have he'd been my partner years ago it made a lot of difference yeah it's different it is difficult sometimes but first of all he's my son so i want him to be successful and most importantly he's confident i know he's we all sat back kids but he's very smart and he's very well respected in the business and anybody who deals with him they're quite impressed with him so you know he's doing a great job so that suits me down to the ground i get on doing what i do and i like sort of developing the fighters and bringing the ones through i think are going to be are going to do the business going to be become stars and so forth and then we've just got an understanding there's a couple of times when it gets frustrating i know he gets frustrated me a few times i can just sit so i just bite my tongue have a little smile and let me on Because every father-son dynamic can frustrate each other.

29:14Has anything personal life spilled over into professional life where you've had a row on holiday and then you turn up on a Monday morning and had to square it out? I've got to say that. I like to think, you know, all of us, we've all got a fairly good relationship. But I've got to be honest, at their age, they are now. I'll bite my tongue. Years ago, I put me in their place, but they put me in my place now. George has been really influential recently within the business where when the Saudi and Turkey, Alashank, come in with some money and wanted to put on fights in Saudi Arabia. He wanted all the best boxers.

29:43And obviously all the best boxers in the UK have split between Queensbury, your company, and then Barry and Eddie Hearn's company, Matchroom. And you were fierce rivals, never really worked together. You hadn't even sort of spoken or met with Eddie Hearn, who was your sort of rival promoter at that point. But George got you and Eddie in a room together to sort of go, look, let's squash this because there's a lot of business to be done here. There's a lot of money, a lot of good fights we can put on. We need to put our personal beef aside for good business relations. So you've had to have your sons come in to sort of be the peacemaker.

30:14How did that feel? Did you want to squash things with Matt Trim or did he have to sweet talk you? Barry and I were partners years ago for a short period in snooker business, a very short period. And it would always been rivals. And we were always the sort of, you know, he's very good at what he does in snooker and darts. And we were the more successful boxing company. Then we, meaning Queensbury, we left Sky and started our own channel, Box Nation which we ran for quite a few years in the meantime Sky got their hunger back for boxing and invested quite a bit in in it plus they had AJ which was a big thing so there was a lot of rivalry and Turkey then suggested that we do this 5v5 and that was the first time I met Eddie because I'd never met him before so we he's in the dressing room at one of the Wembley shows he came in we shook hands because this had been 10 years of back and forth slagging each other off really you know well longer than that yeah 15 it's always the young buck comes in he's always the way they do it it's old you know we've got a new way of doing it so all people want to see in a fight so they don't care all that crap on the outside is just what it is it's just dressing and then we got the 5v5 going which was but when George first come to you and said right I'm going to set up a meeting with you and Eddie did you was you open to it I didn't really care about it to be honest I didn't one way I mean it wasn't nothing that I was sort of I ever thought about.

31:37The only time I ever talk about them or our competitors is in these interviews. Outside of that, we just get on with our business because that's what we focus on. And we, you know, we worked very hard over the last six years with the model that we had, which was developing the talent here, which we're now expanding. We're starting to do some shows in America and Europe now. And going back to it, because I already did that years ago. And I think the thing with, I suppose, this thing with Riyadh's season and with HE, his excellency, as we call him, It was the catalyst for all this to happen. And I'll get on quite well with Eddie now.

32:10Yeah, it's mad though, isn't it? Me and Eddie, they ain't got a good word to say for George. But it's so mad that your old rival's son, who became your rival, it took your son. It's a mad father-son dynamic. Yeah, they get on quite well together. So it's nice. And it's funny, you sit back and you look at it and you just think, you know, over the years, I find it quite, I sort of have a little wry smile when I see it because I was just thinking what it was and what it is now. I mean, obviously, the rivalry is still there. We had the 5v5, we had a few fighters, and obviously when Daniel Dubois fought AJ at Wembley, that was a game match against Queensbury, and we came through on that.

32:50Got a hot run of form. Yeah.

32:55When you say, like you said on Sunday, yesterday, this has been recorded on Monday, you had all the family around, and it was like the Waltons. how much are you like right we're not talking boxing is it delineated like this is family time and then when we're at work we're at work or does it is it impossible not to find yourselves talking business when we're all together like that we don't unless there's a real something there's an issue that we got then we're just like a couple of us just go and have sort of 10 minutes you know to one side so we got to say but no i mean yesterday was all about it was a belated birthday party for my my oldest daughter i mean the weather was a bit crappy but it weren't the point it was just really good to get everyone together some nice food you know and i like a glass of wine and it was just lovely it's just a lovely day seeing the grandkids i mean sometimes i'll step back and look at that look at them all in there i mean there was yesterday with with my one son was as i say was in australia there was 26 of them there all together and i'm just thinking how do you keep track like do you know birthdays and stuff like that they're all in my phone they're all in my club every one of them so how much how much um you know because when you have you know you've got six kids when you have kids like me and just our age you think oh hopefully nan and granddad will be around to have them for the weekend and stuff like that but obviously at the weekend you're normally away uh fire how much babysitting are you doing as frank warren the granddad well the night before my wife had uh francis and sam's three children because he went off to see the oasis thing at cardiff he's a massive oasis fan but she went and stayed there and i i stayed at home because of the dogs so you've got the bad side of the deal she went and babysat the kids and the dog babysat me right okay so she normally takes the hit and you're there with the dogs actually i love it when the grandkids come around because they're good fun i mean they're they're good kids and they're they're all different little personalities as well it's amazing what you And you see the similarities with them and my mum's or dad's Warren side of it.

34:53It's quite interesting. Do you ever go away for a big family holiday? All of them? We used to do that quite a bit. But now, obviously, they've got in-laws. So sometimes they go away. Christmas, we used to all of us get together at Christmas. But now that's sort of every other year sort of thing because they have to obviously share the thing with their other in-laws. Am I right in saying you'd holiday with Jim Rosenthal and then his son, Tom Rosenthal, has become a comedian. Because he was telling me he used to go on holiday with you. Is that right? Jim's a very good friend of mine, Jim and Chrissy.

35:23He's one of Chrissy. And Tom's a good son. Have you ever seen Tom perform? I've never actually seen him live. I've seen him in the plebs and the various shows. And he comes to Arsenal sometimes. I've got a box at the Arsenal. We're all Arsenal nuts. And all my kids are all Arsenal nuts. As soon as they were born, got them the shirts. All my grandkids are all Arsenal supporters. as soon as that before any of the in-laws and two of the in-laws i think it's um george and francis then the other side say they're spurs fans so as soon as they were born i had their little kits ready for them got this right there are small and that's it so they're all on that's how it's been i think if someone said to me the most scary potential father-in-law to go back to if i was dating your daughter i think you'd be in the top five people i'd be scared of as a father in law what were you like when you first met your son-in-laws or how many daughters have you got i've got two two my eldest daughter she's backing singer and a music teacher yeah she teaches music and her husband is a drummer he works um he used to be in the national jazz youth orchestra blashton who was my form master by the way when i was at school so that's a small world and he was And he works on a lot of shows and things.

36:38He's lovely, Neil. He's a lovely guy. And was you protective when they first started bringing boyfriends home? Was you quite standoffish? What was your approach? Well, as I said, that was a relationship where I wasn't with the mother, but we sort of got together and it's all great. It's fantastic. But he's a lovely guy, Neil. Going back to with the kids, I mean, six of them and the boarding school. How did you find it sending them to boarding school? Did you like, was it difficult? What age did they go in that? because four of them went to boarding school that's susan's and my first wife barbara jamie went to he went up going to a centralst martin's he went there oh yeah but he dropped out and louise she'd done stage stuff stage school and all that but the ones who went to boarding school the four that went henry bay george and francey went to boarding school i was a bit wary about it at first to be quiet but my wife you know she was quite on it and she went and looked at school and i said we and we bought a house near the school.

37:34But it was great. I used to love it. It's like, you know, midweek, I'd try and get along to the football matches. So basically, they'd come home for weekends. Is that right? Yeah. So it was just basically, you'd drop them off on a Monday morning, pick them up Friday afternoon, but then you were in and out. Well, it was Saturday afternoon in those days because I used to go to school on a Saturday morning. Oh, my word. Dimey. God, imagine that. Going to school on Saturday. I'd have been livid. Yeah, but they used to get a bowl of gruel at the end of the day. But then you'd be able to see it with a week, though, if you were at football matches or music shows and all that kind of stuff.

38:04Yeah, because I don't know if I could... The people that, when they drop them off at like seven... Don't come back for six weeks. And then pick them up again at Christmas for six weeks away. Yeah, but that's the old thing, weren't it? In those days, you know, I mean, Halebury School was, I think that was part of the East India Company. So that's probably people who were working out there, sent their kids there, and they see them in sort of two years or three years later or whatever it was. No, we'd sit and go up there and see them and go and watch them play a bit of football and all that. I'll get to the matches.

38:33And Sundays, especially it was great if we had shows in London Sunday morning, I'd go and watch them play football with a local football team where we lived, which at that time was in Chewing Wood. They used to play around there. And did you feel like your parenting was quite soft, but obviously compared to like you had a very tough upbringing. So like, you know, when you were trying to like tell them off or they were being naughty and you were like, well, how do I need to do this? Because you don't want to be as full on as you was getting it. but then trying to find the mid like mediate it did you find that a challenge or did it just come naturally being a bit calmer with them no i think i could sort of get their attention just with the tone of my voice right especially if i had a megaphone they were good kids they were all really good kids i suppose you know in some ways you know i don't know what you're like with your kids but you know you spoil them if you can because yeah very difficult not to isn't it yeah and i think the other thing is you know like people got a few quid when you die you're going of leaving the money.

39:28And my thing is, give it with a warm hand. I want to see them enjoy it. Yeah. You know, I think I'd get more pleasure than rather you're being shoved, put behind the curtains and on the conveyor belt. You want to see them enjoy it, don't you? And that's how I am anyway. So they're good kids. I think everybody who meets them, you know, likes them. My daughters are really lovely and good kids. It is a different size to Frank Warren that you see when he's talking about his kids. Yeah, you're a bit of a softy, actually, Frank. The guard's coming down. Is this how you feel about your fighters as well?

39:59Because I think that's part of it, isn't it? Is that you feel a deep loyalty to your fighter. That's what makes a good promoter is that you're absolutely, you'd do anything for your fighter, if you know what I mean. You've got to be in the trenches. You're in the trenches. A lot of fighters, fighters, they're in the toughest of all sports. They're in a sport where that bell goes. You're in the ring on your own and that's it. You get on with it. You wake up in the morning if you're playing football or cricket on a day of a fight. you wake up and you're going to fight whatever happens however you feel and that's what they do they say afterwards maybe I've got a headache or whatever but they'll go and fight you know a footballer oh put a sub on or we're playing next week don't worry boxers are tough tough unique people but they are human as well so they will have those down moments and do you ever see that in the dressing room where you have to sort of be a father figure to them and help them with that or is that more of the trainer's role you get some of them I remember I'm not going to say his name is one fighter in particular he lost this fight and both the fighters were on the Queen's Three books and it was an ordered fight.

40:59He lost the fight and he lost it by a couple of rounds and because he asked me and people with him, a couple of trainers asked me, they said, he said, I won that, I won that. He said, didn't I? I won that. I said, no, you didn't. He went, what? I said, no. I said, the other fellow. I said, it was even money going into the 10th round and he won those last couple of rounds. I said, that is how I sit. And he went off alarming. I said, what are you asking me for? What are you going to do? Lied to you? I said, it's what it is. I said, but we'll do a rematch and we'll find out. But it was really, really tough.

41:29But again, as I say, everybody's different. They've got different things and different ways. He actually fought the guy a few years later and beat him. That's the part, if you are being a father figure or with kids, you've got to be honest when it's the truth. You can't lie and be a yes man. What do you think of your business? I mean, if you have a dodgy night on the stage where it's just not quite work, you don't want to be someone dragging you down. You want to be lifted, don't you? That's what you have for people around you to do. to encourage you. You don't want to lose your confidence and you want to be appreciated and felt that people are there battling for you.

42:00I think that comes through your sort of affection towards Tyson Fury as a friend and a father figure way where people always go, oh, is Tyson coming back? Is Tyson coming back? And you never egg it up or try and convince him. I really appreciate the way you always say he's the best place he can be, which is happy and healthy and that's all I want from him. But if him being happy and healthy involves him fighting, I'll help him with that. but as long as he's happy and healthy I don't care if he fights or not and it does feel authentic you know because for you if you're just a shark business mind you are on him every day to get him because he is just pure money to you in that regard but it's more to you than that I think I've seen people do that Rob over the years with guys and I think it's dreadful I mean I was reading today that Ricky's coming back in a fight for the life of me I mean come on he shouldn't be fighting again he doesn't need to be doing that he's 46 now he doesn't need to be doing that I mean this has got off parenting but what do you think of the the kind of rise of the influencer boxing world.

42:57Is that good for boxing because it's making it more visible or do you think it undermines it as a sport? I think it's a bit of both. But what I, look, they're not kids, are they? They're not like, they're not 15-year-old kids. They're educated people or smart people. So they build up their fan base online and they're finding a way if they want to fight, like what's his name, KSI and a few of these other guys, Jake Paul, to monetize it. Jake Paul actually is fighting fighters now. I mean, they're not great fighters, but he's fighting fighters. They can find a way to monetize it. As long as the health aspect, the doctors are there, it's not going to be licensed by the British Boxing Order Control, but as long as they've got the right, you know, that they're fit to fight, that's their choice.

43:38It's like if I want to go and climb Mount Everest, that's my choice. You know what the risks are and so forth, that's your choice. What I don't like about it is people think that is boxing. They are fighting. they're not they're not trained as a fighter given those years maybe as an amateur or in other sports it is what it is and as long as people understand that they understand it I mean we did a show with Jake Paul in America the very first time for about three four years ago in fact Daniel Dubois fought on it we took him out there the place was rammed out from six o 'clock at night really young audience all sitting there watching it all getting into this and there's some really good fights with proper license and trained fighters on there.

44:22And then on came Jake, and he thought this guy was pretty old. This is the early days. And he beat him. It was an eight-rounder. And then he's given a speech in the ring afterwards, and it was like it was a world title fight. And the crowd were going berserk. And I'm looking around, and I remember another old guy like me sitting there from New York. I said, where did we go wrong? They were going mad, but they sat there, and they loved it, and they cheered him on. And he's found an audience. And actually, Jake's quite a nice fellow. If you meet him, he's good fun. what do you chat to Jake Paul about boxing he made his name through basically his version of Candid Camera wasn't it I like Jake and his business partner Nikita is a very smart guy yeah they found a niche and they've exploited it and they're doing well at it but I mean him fighting Mike Tyson for me was I mean what's Mike Tyson doing getting in the ring at 58 she's nuts well he wants to fight Anthony Joshua doesn't he next which I'm not sure how that ends up we always see so July 19th Daniel Dubas find Usyk you can watch it where can they watch on DAZN pay-per-view on DAZN on DAZN pay-per-view it's the first pay-per-view they've ever done so it's going to be interesting it's a great fight we sold I think we're up to about 88 ,000 tickets now so there's still tickets available to watch it in Wembley yeah there's still some available from Ticketmaster yeah you know it's going to be a great fight I mean you know it's Daniel I think his management said it Usyk's manager he's a great fighter by the way he's probably the best heavyweight of the 21st century he's undefeated four time world champion at heavyweight and a cruiserweight and an Olympic gold medalist undefeated and the Brit basher he's beaten them all so he's in with Daniel he's already had that controversial fight with but this is a different Daniel Dubois and his management said last time we fought Daniel Dubois this time we're fighting Daniel the man and I think that's the way it's going to be that's exactly the feeling I got when I saw him and are you going Rob?

46:21yeah I'm going I'm going to bring my dad actually my dad's coming yeah that'll be nice he's not been to a big fight for years do you know that Rob's dad used to make them box in the living room Frank? there's photos of us at Christmas with gloves on fighting me and my brothers yeah I can remember when did you get one of those punch ball things yeah but we had like two sets of little red gloves well I'm older than you I used to have to stand on it exactly and try and hear bashed about yeah so my dad's coming along so yeah no I think it's a great fight because also Daniel's definitely got better and more switched on mentally and the confidence from beating AJ at Wembley he's done it before he's been in that environment and then Usyk is a freak and he's unbelievable but he's definitely not getting quicker and better you just can't at that age I hope so you know there's no way so I think he's still unbelievable but he's at a level where Daniel's definitely getting better and he's so powerful and so strong and he's so his confidence he's got so it's going to be an amazing fight that really got me excited for it by going to see him train.

47:17He knows he can hurt him because he hurt him, didn't he? He had that four-minute break. He hit him on the belt and some said it was a low blow, some said it was on the belt and then either way, Usyk basically took five minutes to recover, which was a bit of an old man's trick. The referee helped him as well, Rick, and why they kept saying it was a low blow, I don't know. This one, by the way, we got sponsored by Specsavers. Also, he split with his manager, hasn't he? He split with, I thought that was quite strange. Yeah, he split with him, with Alex. Yeah, Alex Krasuk. He's split with his manager that he's been with for years and years.

47:47It seems a very strange time to break up. I don't know what has gone on there. Do you know what's gone on there, Frank? No. If you do, you're not telling us now. I see it with family. How nervous do you get, Frank? Because obviously with football and stuff, they'll say actually it's worse if you're the manager rather than the players because you're just watching helpless. Is that the same with boxing? I don't think it's getting nervous. You can get frustrated when you know that a guy can be doing something or tactically you see what he's not doing over the years or you become conditioned to it so for me i'll go to the fight the fight for me is all the hard work's been done from my perspective now two guys are in there we're going to hopefully enjoy this and hopefully get the result it's all about judgment and timing the best punches in boxing the knockout punches are the best time punches and the best matchmaking is about timing too we like to think we're the the best at that game and we've done it over the years with lots of fighters.

48:46I mentioned Ricky Hatton earlier, Joe Kowczaki, Frank Bruno when he finally won a World title against Zola McCall, you know, even the fight we did for the World title with AJ. I mean, Daniel was a big underdog guy in that fight. But this fight, this is going to be, I think it's going to be a great fight. You know that Usyk's a competitor. And do you think you'll ever stop? Could I ever stop? There's times I think to myself sod this but but they keep pulling me back just one more fight just one more fight we always finish for the final question frank thanks giving us your time really appreciate it thank you for the real joy uh so this is a question about susan what's the one thing she does as a parent that you go oh my god she's amazing what a woman and what a mother and then what's the one thing she does that frustrates you slightly and if she was listening and she heard you say it she might go oh he's got a point there is there something that frustrates you as well as the positive When things sometimes, they hide things from me.

49:44Oh, really? I don't mean, you know, little things maybe going on and then I find out afters. And why didn't you tell me? We can, you know, that happens occasionally. Oh, so she holds information back in case you react to it. And that's annoying. I knew you would react like that, yeah. And then what's the one thing she does that makes you go, oh, she's amazing, what a mum. Patience. And she's done a great job with them. Because basically, I mean, she started off with this. You know, I did a lot of travelling. I was away a lot. and she was the glue that held it all together. She was brilliant. Oh, amazing.

50:14Thanks, Frank. And I'll see you at Wembley. Fingers crossed for a British win. What's the date again? And how do they sign up for pay-per-view, et cetera? It's the 19th of July at Wembley Stadium. Some tickets still available on Ticketmaster and it's on DAZN pay-per-view. So you can get it through the app and on your telly as well on Skyler's little DAZN app. You can get through it there. And if you want to, I know you're coming along to it, Rob. If you want to come along, Josh, you know you're more than welcome. Yeah, I'd love that. That'd be great. You're going to be like a rabbit in the headlights, John.

50:40I love that. I have night of my life. You'll be in a headlock within two minutes. And if anybody pulls out, and bring your bag with you, because if anybody pulls out... Yeah, I've done a few bits of boxing training. Don't worry about that, Frank. Cheers, Frank. Cheers, Hank. Thank you. Thanks a lot, fellas. Frank Warren. What a lovely bloke. Lovely, isn't it? There's a much bigger heart there than you imagine from the outside of boxing promoting. Well, do you know what? I've watched a lot of Frank Warren, because as much as I'm in boxing, I love the soap opera of it. So I'm actually a bit annoyed that he gets on with Matt Rimm now because back in the day, there'd be an interview with Frank going, Eddie Earn said this and he's an idiot.

51:16You need to get into wrestling, Rob. Well, that's basically what it was. And then Eddie Earn would do a video going, oh, Frank Warren said this. And it would be like two men bickering. It was great fun. It was almost like Big Brother. But now they get on. But like, there was definitely a different side to him because normally in the interviews, you see him going, I've sent the offer. He's not come back to me. That was bang out. And all that sort of, you know, macho promoter aggression but that was great loved it six kids blimey loved it but I'll see you next week see ya cheers